[03:43] <pitti> Good morning
[08:43] <DanChapman> Good Morning all :-)
[08:49] <JackYu> morning:)
[09:11] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, are you sure you can cope with timezone issues as a release manager?
[09:11] <Noskcaj> probably not, note the "if no ones else does"
[09:12] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, heh heh
[09:13]  * smartboyhw won't be, he is already release team member of 2 flavorus-.-
[09:18]  * Noskcaj has virtually no power, anywhere
[09:18] <Noskcaj> (possibly a good thing)
[09:18] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, one day, I'm expecting you to have more power
[09:18] <smartboyhw> This is a meritocracy after all:P
[09:19] <knome> before that, i'm expecting the "i'll do that" -attitude, "i'll can do that if no one else does"
[09:19] <knome> *not
[09:20] <knome> it's important to really want to do something, otherwise it's highly likely you'll lose your interest...
[09:20] <Noskcaj> ok
[09:21] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, it's time you start to take responsibilities:P
[09:22] <Noskcaj> i want to, but I'm never online for meetings and hardware limits what i can do in terms of devel and testing
[09:23] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, 1. We don't have meetings specifically for release managers-.-
[09:23] <smartboyhw> Only if you take up as a full QA lead if you should
[09:23] <smartboyhw> *then you should
[09:23] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, phillw himself isn't a dev:P
[09:23] <smartboyhw> And as for testing, no worries;)
[09:24] <knome> Noskcaj, not being able to be in the meetings can be fixed, either by moving the meetings here and there or if you have things you are responsible for, communicate about them outside the meetings
[09:24] <knome> we do have all kinds of mailing list and stuff to cooperate with others
[09:24] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, you ARE lucky though, in the 12.10 cycle we have meetings with the release team almost every week:P
[09:24] <Noskcaj> ok
[09:24] <knome> i'm just saying, it's not about the others, it's about you; whether you are committed to something or not
[09:25] <knome> (and i'm speaking in a general level, don't feel like i'm pushing you to pick up any release manager's task if you don't wish to)
[09:26] <smartboyhw> It's like that in Ubuntu Studio too. I am the Release Manager, so I commit to my release and testing-related responsibilities:)
[09:32]  * Noskcaj thinks trying for MOTU might be his next target
[09:32] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, good.
[09:32] <smartboyhw> Well, I would rather prefer being a DD or DM:P
[09:33] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, if you became a MOTU expect me to ask you to sponsor packages:P
[09:36] <Noskcaj> smartboyhw, I've done a fair bit of stuff in debian too, but hardware (no VMs) and the fact the pbuilder keeps breaking make it hard for me t do stuff proprly
[09:37] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, oh
[09:37] <pitti> Noskcaj: OOI, what breaks for you in pbuilder? (I abandoned it quite some time ago)
[09:38]  * smartboyhw quite like the pbuilder-dist sid
[09:38] <Noskcaj> pitti, cowbuilder, pbuilder-dist, it thinks sid uses saucy-proposed and aqueorea doesn't have a good gpg key
[09:39] <smartboyhw> It's the saucy pbuilder-dist which keeps unable to download packages-.-
[09:39] <Noskcaj> ok
[09:39] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, uh hum, I don't think pitti knows about aequorea
[09:39] <smartboyhw> And, don't forget, it's still a project in the womb:P
[09:39] <pitti> no, I don't
[09:40] <Noskcaj> ignore that bit then
[09:40] <pitti> well, LP builders do use -proposed
[09:40] <pitti> my own schroots usually don't, though
[09:43] <smartboyhw> pitti, I won't let my pbuilders touch -proposed unless absolutely necessary
[12:59] <smartboyhw> balloons, good morning (U. S. Time) to you
[14:49] <smartboyhw> balloons, ping for some testcase consulation
[14:49] <balloons> smartboyhw, aloha
[14:50] <smartboyhw> balloons, aloha. The upgrade (image) testcases are not mentioning that it only works when there is only 1 version of Ubuntu (without any other OS)
[14:50] <smartboyhw> See https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bZ4yQIVgGaUGSYu3qiUHnQt3ieBZoqunP_DcleHCr3I/preview?pli=1#bookmark=id.35db66d9d3b3
[14:50] <smartboyhw> How can we clarify that
[14:51] <balloons> smartboyhw, you can upgrade ubuntu even if you have another os like windows installed according to what I read in the document
[14:51] <smartboyhw> balloons, not with two versions of Ubuntu
[14:51] <smartboyhw> So, we need to clarify a bit-.-
[14:51] <smartboyhw> Or, with multiple partitions
[14:52] <balloons> ahh you mean when you have essentially 2 versions of ubuntu and potentially another os
[14:52] <smartboyhw> Both Studio and Kylin are getting it misunderstood without xnox telling us about this
[14:52] <smartboyhw> balloons, yes
[14:53] <balloons> my guess is the installer doesn't automagically upgrade either version of ubuntu
[14:53] <smartboyhw> balloons, yes, but I think most of us don't know that
[15:00] <xnox> smartboyhw: you are miss-quoting me.
[15:01] <smartboyhw> xnox, well, at least you gave us the doc-.-
[15:01] <smartboyhw> If not, we wouldn't have known it
[15:02] <xnox> smartboyhw: balloons: an upgrade or reinstall option is available, if there is only one ubuntu installation. One can have other operating systems installed, as long as none of them are also ubuntu.
[15:02] <xnox> (and here it's any ubuntu system that identifies itself as such, thus all official flavours are simply ubuntu)
[15:02] <balloons> xnox, smartboyhw yes I got that.. xnox you said it the simplest ;-) More than one version of ubuntu and you don't try and guess which one to upgrade :-)
[15:03]  * smartboyhw makes simple things complicated (always)
[15:03] <balloons> smartboyhw, does xnox make sense? 1 ubuntu install means upgrade and re-install are available. More than one and it's not. Other OS's installed have no bearing
[15:04] <smartboyhw> balloons, OK
[15:04] <balloons> and yes note ubuntu + ubuntu studio means there are 2 versions of ubuntu, and thus no re-install and upgrade
[15:05] <DanChapman> afternoon balloons & smartboyhw o/
[15:05] <smartboyhw> Good evening DanChapman
[15:05] <smartboyhw> (And I will go to sleep after the Release Team gives orders on Beta 1)
[15:05] <balloons> ty xnox
[16:38] <skaet> Beta 1 is now released.
[16:38] <skaet> Thanks to everyone who has been helping to test this and make it available.
[16:39] <SergioMeneses> skaet, \o/
[16:39] <SergioMeneses> balloons, sent email about it
[16:40] <skaet> :-)   Goodness.    Thanks balloons.
[16:40] <balloons> ty everyone :-)
[16:41] <SergioMeneses> btw balloons do you know what happen with phillw?
[16:42] <balloons> SergioMeneses, he got a little burned out and frustrated.. a little down time would do him some good
[16:43] <elfy> good for eveeryone from time to time
[16:43] <elfy> it also helps if you're not the only one doing something
[16:44] <SergioMeneses> balloons, I see I hope that he come back soon
[16:44] <SergioMeneses> elfy, agree
[16:44] <elfy> I like our team - we all pitch in and help others where we can and if we can
[16:45] <SergioMeneses> :)
[16:46] <elfy> and people respond to calls for help - if I'd had to do our bunch of testcases on my own - I'd still be doing them
[16:47] <SergioMeneses> chilicuil, I saw your post about the jam
[16:49] <chilicuil> SergioMeneses: =), I'm gonna have fun in one of the remote UGJ organized by the michigan team
[16:50] <SergioMeneses> chilicuil, sounds good maybe I can join as well
[16:52] <chilicuil> SergioMeneses: feel free =), http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/2319-ubuntu-global-jam-s-series/
[16:53] <SergioMeneses> 2) Say "I'm Jamming!" in the channel. (This is a requirement.) (Note: not really)
[16:53] <SergioMeneses> jajaja
[16:53] <balloons> we should update the testing page again.. just needs a light touchup
[16:56] <SergioMeneses> balloons, remembers me about lubuntu-wikis project
[18:19] <knome> pitti, send me your preferred email address and i'll add that to auto-approve for xubuntu-devel
[19:07] <balloons> letozaf, hello
[19:08] <letozaf> balloons, hello
[19:08] <balloons> thomi, when your about I'd like to chat about some unicode errors that continue to pop up in rssreader tests
[19:08] <balloons> letozaf, so how are you?
[19:08] <letozaf> balloons, fine and you ?
[19:09] <balloons> getting back into the groove of things
[19:09] <letozaf> balloons, I worked on rssreader autopilto tests, I was waiting for the adding feed changes to be made as Joey told me by mail
[19:09] <letozaf> balloons, but now I found some conflicts
[19:10] <letozaf> balloons, is there a way to fix them quickly that you know
[19:10] <letozaf> balloons, or is it better to branch again and put my tests back in some way ?
[19:11] <letozaf> balloons, yeah think you had a lot to work after vUDS :D
[19:12] <balloons> letozaf, I made some changes to RSSReader to try and help the tests out.. In general, it seems like the app is much better now. I think I can add and remove things easily enough
[19:13] <letozaf> balloons, I had rixed the remove topic test, but when I merged found a bug on adding a feed...
[19:14] <letozaf> balloons, well lets say that the changes become too quickly, maybe I should just branch again and see what the new things are
[19:14] <letozaf> balloons, and fix my tests again :'(
[19:14] <balloons> letozaf, I don't think you need to.. what changes do you have that aren't landed?
[19:15] <balloons> my changes were just to clear the database each time so you don't have issues adding a topic, etc
[19:15] <letozaf> balloons, yes but when my tests were working fine i merged and they broke
[19:15] <letozaf> balloons, anyway if you want I can push them so you can have a look
[19:16] <balloons> letozaf, you should be able to merge easily enough..
[19:16] <balloons> there might be conflicts, but you should be able to resolve them
[19:17] <balloons> anyways, I want to figure out why the tests seem to fail with a unicode error all the time
[19:17] <balloons> I assume your still working on adding back tests for the other features :-)
[19:17] <letozaf> balloons, yes that is a weired "bug"
[19:18] <letozaf> balloons, I had fixed the remove topic test but now nothing works again :(
[19:18] <letozaf> balloons, I think I will try to solve the conflicts
[19:19] <balloons> letozaf, they shouldn't be bad.. I don't think I messed with the tests that much
[19:20] <letozaf> balloons, there is a thing I do not understand, I now find  files with "extension" .THIS .OTHER .BASE  after the merge
[19:21] <letozaf> balloons, how do you fix that ? is there something about these in bzr documentation ?
[19:21] <balloons> letozaf, right, that is showing you the different versions
[19:22] <letozaf> balloons, yes I kind of understood that but do not know how to fix it
[19:22] <letozaf> balloons, without making a mess I mean
[19:22] <balloons> I think git makes it easier to solve conflicts, but that's probably because I was more used to git.. regardless, it can seem daunting but it's not in reality
[19:23] <balloons> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/beta/en/user-reference/conflict-types-help.html
[19:23] <letozaf> balloons, thanks I will read this now hope I can fix them :)
[19:23] <balloons> letozaf, so you can say bzr resolve --action=
[19:23] <balloons> I gave you the link, but I find it confusing even :-p
[19:24] <letozaf> balloons, :P
[19:25] <balloons> letozaf, this is closer to explaining how I do it
[19:25] <balloons> http://muffinresearch.co.uk/archives/2007/06/05/dealing-with-conflicts-in-bazaar-version-control/
[19:25] <balloons> basically I use meld as the graphical diff application
[19:25] <balloons> so "bzr diff --using meld"
[19:26] <balloons> then I edit the file incorporating the new changes along with my stuff.. meld makes it easy
[19:26] <balloons> then you do "bzr resolve" and your done
[19:27] <letozaf> balloons, thanks, well... I got got some reading to do :P
[19:27] <balloons> letozaf, you have conflicts right now right?
[19:27] <letozaf> balloons, yes
[19:27] <balloons> so let's walk through quickly
[19:27] <balloons> no need to read the docs.. you'll be more confused than me
[19:27] <balloons> bzr conflicts
[19:28] <balloons> that shows your conflicts..  do you have meld installed?
[19:28] <letozaf> balloons, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6067704/
[19:29] <letozaf> balloons, no I will install it now
[19:30] <balloons> letozaf, ok perfect. So make sure you have meld installed, then do this "bzr diff --using meld"
[19:30] <letozaf> balloons, ok got meld now
[19:30] <balloons> that will load each of those conflicted files one at a time. it'll show your version along with the new version. Edit your version inside meld until it contains everything you want
[19:31] <letozaf> balloons, looks good :) let me see
[19:31] <balloons> make sure to save when your done
[19:31] <balloons> when your all done editing the files and everything is good, just tell bzr it's resolved
[19:31] <balloons> bzr resolve --all
[19:31] <balloons> your = you are
[19:32] <balloons> I must be feeling good, I caught myself
[19:32] <letozaf> balloons, but the differences in RssFeedPage.qml are changes made by devs I think
[19:32] <letozaf> balloons, for instance: text: DateUtils.formatRelativeTime(i18n, model.pubdate)
[19:33] <balloons> letozaf, yes, make sure you get all the differences put in by other folks.. don't just remove them :-)
[19:33] <letozaf> balloons, oh yes  I understand, good
[19:33] <balloons> if you don't want any of your changes in a file, you can have bzr do the merge for you by just taking the new version
[19:34] <balloons> bzr resolve --take-other FILENAME
[19:34] <balloons> make sense?
[19:35] <letozaf> balloons, yes I will try now, let's see
[19:37] <letozaf> balloons, I tried to quit meld to yse bzr resolve for some files ... but it say's it modified files did I make a mess or what ?
[19:37] <letozaf> to use, sorry not to yse
[19:38] <balloons> letozaf, you can never make a mess when you have files version controlled :-)
[19:38] <letozaf> balloons, good :P
[19:39] <letozaf> balloons, so now I can use bzr resolve --take-other for fieles with changes made only by others and meld for the ones I worked on, right ?
[19:40] <balloons> letozaf, yep
[19:40] <letozaf> balloons, ok let try, thanks
[19:40] <balloons> your a pro now
[19:40] <balloons> bah!
[19:40] <letozaf> balloons, :P
[19:40] <balloons> you are a pro now
[19:41] <balloons> I'm 0/2, but I noticed.. maybe knome would still be proud
[19:42] <letozaf> balloons, well wait until  I fix the conflicts ... :P
[19:47] <letozaf> balloons, cool I like this meld :)
[19:48] <balloons> pretty handy eh?
[19:49] <Noskcaj> balloons, Once Dan Chapman has finished re-writing testdrive for GTK3, would you support the idea that we "officially" support KVM, and leave all the other VMs as "unsupported". e.g. If Vbox breaks in any release, we'll just have a warning saying it's unsupported and un-tested
[19:49] <Noskcaj> It was phill's idea
[19:53] <letozaf> balloons, yeah ! magic!
[19:58] <knome> balloons, hehe :)
[19:58] <knome> i can't agree with not supporting other VM's
[19:59] <balloons> Noskcaj, I'm not on the dev team for testdrive, but as a user, I like choice :-)
[19:59] <knome> if we can't get some virtual machines working with ubuntu, how can we make sure it works on various hardware?
[19:59] <balloons> that said, nothing wrong with not wanting to support something that frequently breaks
[19:59] <balloons> the question is, why does it break?
[20:00] <TheDrums> "Unsupported" and "if it breaks not our fault" just seem to be cop outs, like "Patches accepted" :P
[20:00] <knome> that's debatable, but i don't know the history well enough to argument for or against either side
[20:00] <Noskcaj> Part of our reasoning was the latest ubuntu kernal breaks Vbox (semi-proprietary), parallels is mac only(and proprietary), and VMware (a feature request) is also proprietary.
[20:01] <knome> i suppose the question is: how many of the testers regularly use there other methods?
[20:01] <balloons> I'd guess many folks use vbox.. indeed, all the tutorials I show use it
[20:01] <knome> so wouldn't that speak pro-vbox even if it broke here and there?
[20:01] <Noskcaj> I recently swapped from Vbox to KVM, and i've not seen any losses
[20:01] <TheDrums> If your CPU doesn't have "The KVM feature" kvm/qemu is *very* slow.
[20:02] <knome> what TheDrums said.
[20:02] <Noskcaj> yeah, that's one of my worries
[20:02] <TheDrums> So mainly I use it for testing flash booting, and OVMF/EFI.
[20:05] <balloons> I would say choice is good, so my question remains -- why does vbox break? kernel modules issue or ? there is an open source version
[20:06] <Noskcaj> balloons, AFAIK, ubuntu uses the open-surce version, and phill has talked to the kernal team and they have said they won't fix it
[20:08] <knome> so are you saying vbox is only broken if you use the non-open-source version?
[20:09] <Noskcaj> knome, i don't know
[20:09] <knome> that's what i gathered from your comment
[20:09] <knome> if that's not what you are saying, what are you saying?
[20:10] <balloons> well the module might not be in core, which wouldn't be surprising, but it should have a maintainer
[20:10] <knome> it's not a huge problem for testers if it only works with the open source version
[20:11] <knome> but i'd imagine we might lose quite some users with not supporting the partly proprietary vbox?
[20:12] <Noskcaj> Where is phillw when i need him?
[20:12] <Noskcaj> All i know is Vbox doesn't work too well and parallels is mac only
[20:13] <knome> vbox doesn't work too well?
[20:14] <knome> it has worked for me pretty much always?
[20:14] <Noskcaj> on saucy
[20:14] <knome> on saucy.
[20:14] <balloons> same.. but to be fair I don't always use testdrive to launch it.
[20:15] <knome> i never use testdrive
[20:15] <knome> if it's broken when used with testdrive, doesn't that imply testdrive is broken?
[20:24] <letozaf> balloons, ok I solved the conflicts but now when I launch autopilot  I get this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6067890/
[20:24] <letozaf> balloons, something wrong with TopicTab... or what ever
[20:24] <TheDrums> knome: Guessing no extension pack?
[20:25] <balloons> letozaf, looks like qml file error
[20:25] <balloons> did you make changes in the qml?
[20:25] <letozaf> balloons, hope not, I tried to be carefull
[20:25] <balloons> best to just grab the upstream version of it, and add in the objectnames you need
[20:26] <balloons> they are just oneliners :-)
[20:26] <letozaf> balloons, yes I will do it thanks
[20:28] <knome> TheDrums, extension pack..?
[20:28] <TheDrums> That's a "no" :)
[20:29] <knome> i personally hope virtualbox works with all kinds of setups, but even if *buntu* only works as a guest with the basic open source version, i'm more than fine with *that*
[20:29] <knome> just saying it might lose ubuntu some users, and when any virtualization solutions do not work, it's a possible loss
[20:32] <TheDrums> knome: https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads support for PXE, USB, and RDP.
[20:32] <knome> yeah, i figured we're talking about that
[20:32] <knome> but i got no confirmation if that was the cause to any breakage.
[20:34] <wxl> there's a problem with the kernel that affects virtualbox?! this is news to me. why? what?
[20:35] <knome> there might be or might not be, nobody is able to confirm.
[20:35] <wxl> :/ where does the suggestion come from?
[20:35] <Noskcaj> wxl, phill found it, and has since taken a break from ubuntu
[20:36] <wxl> Noskcaj: i've been mostly afk. did he post to the list about this?
[20:36] <knome> if he's the only one who hit it, it can't be a awfully critical bug.
[20:36] <Noskcaj> wxl, no, just a conversation with the kernal team, then with smartboyhw and i on his channel
[20:36] <wxl> huh.
[20:37] <wxl> well i guess i won't worry about it too much then XD
[20:37] <knome> an unfiled bug is as useless as no bug at all...
[20:38]  * TheDrums files a bug on knome.
[20:38] <knome> what bug?
[20:38] <knome> bad description, marking as invalid
[20:38] <wxl> you sure it's not a dupe?
[20:39] <letozaf> balloons, it's weired I got the ubuntu-rssreader-app.qml file from upstream added just 4 or 5 objectNames and get this output again: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6067940/
[20:39] <letozaf> balloons, ubuntu-rssreader-app.qml:178 Type TopicTab unavailable
[20:40] <letozaf> balloons,            TopicTab {
[20:40] <letozaf>                 id: shortsTab
[20:40] <letozaf>                 objectName: "Tab0"
[20:40] <letozaf>                 title: i18n.tr("Shorts")
[20:40] <letozaf>                 topicId: 0
[20:40] <letozaf>                 isAll: true
[20:40] <letozaf> balloons, doesn't look like something I changed, what could it be ?
[20:44] <letozaf> balloons, I branched the rssreader in another directory and it works fine, so I better try to bring my tests in there otherwise I might just make a mess and don't want to
[20:45] <letozaf> balloons, I will copy them over to the new directory that works :P :(
[20:45] <balloons> letozaf, go for it
[20:46] <letozaf> balloons, :P
[20:47] <letozaf> balloons, better go now, it's getting late I will continue tomorrow
[20:47] <letozaf> night everyone!