[07:38] <ochosi> Unit193: indeed, now ubuntu carries it and is also responsible for keeping things working (sounds like extra fun)
[10:22] <ochosi> brainwash: the icons should be fixed in the latest package-update
[10:23] <brainwash> ochosi: yes, they are, thanks :)
[10:23] <ochosi> good to hear
[10:23] <ochosi> so your icon-sizes are fine again?
[10:24] <brainwash> yea, original size again
[10:29] <ochosi> cool
[10:29] <ochosi> if you see any other icon issues please let me know
[13:29] <ochosi> can anyone confirm a (really noticeable!) lag when logging out on Saucy?
[13:30] <ochosi> noticed that since i'm working towards a patch for the greeter
[13:30] <elfy> I can try to ochosi 
[13:31] <elfy> anything I need to do to confirm it or do you just mean - is it noticeable slow now?
[13:38] <brainwash> ochosi: did you already check the usual log files for suspicious warnings/errors?
[13:45] <ochosi> elfy: yeah, for me it's noticeable
[13:45] <ochosi> brainwash: well if people can't confirm it i'll dig around the logs
[13:45] <ochosi> if not, i won't waste too much time and rather try to fix the logout-bug
[13:46] <elfy> it doesn't 'seem' any longer than it normally does here - but it does appear to take a longish time 'normally' 
[13:46] <ochosi> ok
[13:46] <ochosi> here it takes ~7secs
[13:46] <elfy> I'll check 
[13:46] <ochosi> so almost as long as booting :)
[13:46] <elfy> I'd say 2 secs - but it's longer than that :p
[13:50] <elfy> ochosi: 8 seconds
[13:50] <elfy> about as long for me as it has been for a long time
[13:50] <knome> that's acceptable though if locking works properly ;)
[13:51] <knome> but sure, please fix it if you know how to
[13:51] <elfy> hi knome 
[13:51] <knome> hey elfy 
[13:55] <brainwash> ouch, I was pretty sure that my dedicated gpu (or kms) won't cause a kernel panic anymore when graphically logging.. what a bummer, need to re-add my lightdm script hock
[13:55] <brainwash> brb
[13:59] <elfy> that's longer than 8 seconds ... 
[14:00] <ochosi> elfy: hmpf, okay, then i need to take a look at that
[14:00] <ochosi> maybe it's something related to systemd again that mr_pouit didn't fix in xfce4-session
[14:01] <ochosi> ali1234: i fixed theming for the indicators in greybird-git-master now, could you please test that?
[14:01] <ali1234> sure
[14:01] <ochosi> in case it works, i'll add similar stuff for the themes that need it
[14:01] <ochosi> thanks!
[14:01] <ochosi> Orion is really fine
[14:01] <ochosi> Numix too
[14:01] <ochosi> although i need to drop the sizing patch from there
[14:02] <ali1234> hmm it's not working
[14:02] <ali1234> i restarted the panel but the background is still thw wrong colour
[14:02] <ochosi> are you sure?
[14:02] <ali1234> oh wait, wrong theme
[14:02] <ochosi> (sorry, i know that's a silly question, but it's hard to believe)
[14:02] <ochosi> ok :)
[14:03] <ali1234> it looks ok
[14:03] <ali1234> the border looks a little bit different
[14:03] <ochosi> yeah, a little
[14:03] <ochosi> but not too much i think
[14:03] <ali1234> it's close enough
[14:03] <ali1234> considering gtk2/gtk3 stuff
[14:04] <ochosi> yeah, box-shadows aren't 100% working as they should in this context
[14:04] <ochosi> otherwise they'd be identical
[14:04] <ochosi> but menus are fine too?
[14:05] <ali1234> they look ok to me... what am i looking for?
[14:08] <ochosi> not sure, anything really
[14:08] <ochosi> i had some issues with hovering
[14:08] <ochosi> e.g. in soundmenu
[14:08] <ochosi> but i think i fixed that now
[14:09] <ali1234> it looks fine
[14:09] <ali1234> i just spotted a bug though
[14:09] <ali1234> the volume notification bubble shouldn't show when you change the volume from the sound menu
[14:09] <OvenWerks> ochosi: Sorry to butt in, but I had noticed that the menu from a right click on the desktop would not resize icons. I don't know if that is theming though
[14:10] <ochosi> ali1234: that's somewhat true, but it was always like that (blame the unmaintained xfce4-volumed)
[14:10] <OvenWerks> The problem has gone away for me because I am using an icon theme with right sized icons now
[14:10] <ali1234> sure. i only just noticed it though
[14:11] <ali1234> OvenWerks: what do you mean exactly?
[14:11] <ochosi> OvenWerks: what do you mean exactly? can you show me a screenshot of that?
[14:11] <ochosi> haha
[14:11] <ochosi> nice one
[14:11] <OvenWerks> hang on...
[14:11] <ali1234> when you right click in a file manager you get "zoom in/out" in the menu
[14:11] <ali1234> this isn't available for desktop icons... is that what you mean?
[14:12] <ochosi> i think he refers to the app-menu you get when you right-click the desktop
[14:12] <ochosi> same as the one in the panel
[14:12] <ali1234> but you can't resize the icons int he panel, can you?
[14:13] <ochosi> not in the menu, at least not easily
[14:13] <ali1234> oh well, let's just wait and see :)
[14:13] <ochosi> agreed :)
[14:14] <ali1234> speaking of icons and menus... one thing that bugs me is you can turn off icons in *all* menus, and you can turn off icons in just the start menu, but you can't have icons in the start menu and nowhere else
[14:15] <ochosi> yeah, general gtk overrides xfce-menu
[14:15] <ochosi> it kinda makes sense
[14:15] <ali1234> KDE does the exact same thing
[14:15] <OvenWerks> http://imagebin.org/270352
[14:15] <ali1234> but in gnome classic it's possible
[14:15] <ochosi> ali1234: might work with whiskermenu
[14:15] <OvenWerks> This is from 13.04
[14:15] <ochosi> ali1234: (because it's not really a menu-widget)
[14:15] <OvenWerks> but like I say in 13.10 the icons are the right size to begin with
[14:16] <ali1234> i don't recognise that menu at all
[14:16] <ochosi> that's ubuntu-studio
[14:16] <OvenWerks> it is custom
[14:16] <OvenWerks> ya
[14:16] <ali1234> ah, ok
[14:16] <ali1234> so you mean those top icons are too big?
[14:16] <ochosi> OvenWerks: ok, first of all: the icons that aren't the right size aren't in our icon theme
[14:16] <brainwash> ochosi: after some trouble with KMS I was able to logout, yes, there is some unusual delay
[14:17] <ochosi> brainwash: yeah, we'll have to fix that too then...
[14:17] <OvenWerks> no, I am thinking that a new application with only one icon.
[14:17] <ali1234> if you install the game "super meat boy" it has a HUGE icon that breaks many menu applications
[14:17] <ali1234> it's like 128x128
[14:17] <OvenWerks> however, if it is a fix the icon theme thing I will consider it fixed :)
[14:18] <OvenWerks> these are all 48X
[14:18] <ochosi> OvenWerks: so you say in 13.10 it works (with the same icon.theme)?
[14:18] <OvenWerks> no we fixed the icons
[14:18] <GridCube> ali1234, i remember back in the day there was a problem with xpm files for icons
[14:18] <ochosi> OvenWerks: you added 16px versions?
[14:18] <OvenWerks> Ya
[14:18] <brainwash> GridCube: already fixed?
[14:18] <GridCube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdk-pixbuf/+bug/1061037
[14:19] <ochosi> OvenWerks: if you're using elementary-xfce and want icons like these added to the icon theme let me know (or send me a pull-request)
[14:19] <OvenWerks> I was using the old ones to point out that the main menu does resize but the right click does not.
[14:19] <GridCube> actually this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/1066591
[14:20] <brainwash> same issue, isn't it?
[14:20] <GridCube> yes apparentry
[14:20] <ochosi> yup i guess
[14:20] <ali1234> GridCube: SMB is png files, but they put the same 128x128 icon in all the directories, without resizing it
[14:20] <GridCube> XD 
[14:20] <ochosi> ali1234: bastards! :)
[14:20] <OvenWerks> ochosi: we have actually made the icons part of the menu overlay so they are in hicolor
[14:20] <GridCube> ali1234, oh, i dont know about that
[14:20] <ochosi> OvenWerks: ah fine too
[14:20] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/1010326
[14:20] <ochosi> ali1234: if you want me to fix that in our icon-theme lemme know
[14:21] <ochosi> ah, fix committed sounds ok
[14:21] <ali1234> not sure if it was ever fixed - it's not a huge (lol) problem anyway
[14:22] <ali1234> *released
[14:22] <ochosi> hehe
[14:23] <ochosi> meh, it seems that logout wasn't part of the patch: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/139758200/xfce4-session-4.10.1-and-logind-suspend.patch
[14:27] <ali1234> i wonder if gedit is ever going to get it's icon back
[14:28] <ochosi> what do you mean?
[14:28] <ali1234> it has no icon on the taskbar or top left corner of the window in themes that support it
[14:28] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gedit/+bug/1219120
[14:29] <ochosi> ah, it doesn't set its appicon
[14:30] <ochosi> true, i never noticed
[14:30] <ochosi> i guess nothing we can do about it
[14:30] <ali1234> for me, the icon on taskbar is the main way i identify windows
[14:30] <ochosi> i hadn't noticed because i've been using plank for a while
[14:30] <ali1234> i don't like when KDE greys all but the selected window
[14:31] <ochosi> that's a feature in gtk3 as well
[16:09] <smartboyhw> knome, you guys should be proud of making it into a Mercedes Benz promo video:)
[16:38] <neyder_> hi there
[16:40] <neyder_> I'm trying to createa custom desktop session, to be loaded besides xubuntu-session and xfce-session, it should hace one botom panel and different set off wallpapers. 
[16:40] <ali1234> i tried to do something like that once
[16:40] <neyder_> I'm starting my work with sources of xubuntu-desktop-defaults xubuntu-artwork
[16:42] <neyder_> ali1234, how did you do that?
[16:42] <ali1234> i did it with gnome-session
[16:43] <neyder_> but with XFCE?
[16:44] <ali1234> xfce4-session is the equivalent
[16:45] <neyder_> that's because we will ship 4K laptops with customized xubuntu, give install CD to other computers, all this based in xubuntu
[17:19] <neyder_> in xfce4-panel configuration, how does I set it to be as a vertical panel 
[17:20] <neyder_>       <property name="position" type="string" value="p=8;x=683;y=755"/> this is was set in my desktop, and in xubuntu-default-settings is  value="p=6;x=0;y=0"
[17:32] <ali1234> p= is probably a set of flags
[17:33] <ali1234> a bitmask that is
[17:35] <ali1234> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/tree/panel/panel-window.c#n184
[17:36] <ali1234> that's an enum so the first one = 0
[17:36] <ali1234> then it counts up
[17:36] <ali1234> that's what the p value is
[17:37] <neyder_> yep, it a position, starting in 1 right border and count up anti clock wise
[17:37] <pleia2> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/09/ubuntu-appears-in-mercedes-benz-self-driving-car-promo for what smartboyhw was talking about
[17:38] <pleia2> 59 seconds in is a pretty good shot of xubuntu
[17:42] <ali1234> how do you know it isn't debian?
[17:44] <neyder_> mouse of xubuntu-logo-menu
[17:46] <pleia2> yep
[17:47] <GridCube> yep
[17:48] <ali1234> openstreetmap is in there too
[17:49] <neyder_> help, i want my present customized desktop session, to be a xdg-session to be loaded for new users and choosed session
[18:13] <ali1234> if you look really closely at the screen you can see they are using http://www.kogmo-rtdb.de/
[18:14] <ali1234> but an old version from when it was still LGPL
[21:27] <ochosi> Gridcube's deviantart initiative seems to have paid off in one way already, xubuntu screenshots on deviantart have spiked since he started
[21:29] <knome> yeah, and we should get that thing going on in our website too
[21:30] <knome> licensing probles though, the moderation stuff isn't working as expected yet
[21:30] <Unit193> That can be hard with back(drops|grounds).
[21:30] <knome> sure, but the guidelines are clearly laid out
[21:34] <ochosi> mm
[21:34] <ochosi> i agree, it would be nice to get that going before the next release
[21:39] <brainwash> ochosi: any progress regarding the logout delay?
[21:40] <ochosi> brainwash: not really yet tbh
[21:41] <ochosi> tried to pin the work on someone else because i think it'd take me ages to figure it out
[21:41] <ochosi> but we'll see
[21:42] <brainwash> ok
[21:43] <brainwash> looks like everyone is affected, or?
[21:43] <ochosi> guess, but haven't had a chance to check
[21:43] <ochosi> maybe elfy can check? :)
[21:43] <ochosi> (amazing timing)
[21:44] <Unit193> elfy broke it, why would checking help?
[21:45]  * elfy broke what?
[21:45] <ochosi> :)
[21:45] <ochosi> elfy: we were just talking about the logout bug and whether everyone is affected or not
[21:45] <elfy> and yea - bad timing - given the extenuating circumstances
[21:45] <ochosi> i said that i assume so, but you'd probably know better
[21:46] <elfy> ochosi: well ... 
[21:47] <elfy> if there was a bug I could tell you if others were affected - but it's all a bit wishy washy - I appear to be - but then again logout is as fast now for me as it was with 12.04 so I assume it is as designed :)
[21:47] <elfy> said the QA bloke 
[21:47] <ochosi> i see
[21:47] <ochosi> hm
[21:48] <brainwash> kernel: [  115.649607] traps: xfce4-indicator[1350] general protection ip:7fddc958626c sp:7fffb2151910 error:0 in libgobject-2.0.so.0.370     6.0[7fddc9553000+51000]
[21:48] <ochosi> still, the fact that the greeter is going crazy about the logged-in state of users also points to a bug there
[21:48] <brainwash> ^anyone else seeing this?
[21:50] <brainwash> (syslog)
[21:51] <elfy> ochosi: I wonder if the logout bug we have is connected 
[21:52] <ochosi> elfy: why not?
[21:52] <elfy> too late in the evening for me to find it 
[21:53] <ochosi> well as long as i don't find anything useful in the logs, it's hard to find out
[21:53] <elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1204486
[21:54] <elfy> is one of them - you don't actually logout - can't change languages 
[21:54] <ochosi> yeah, that's likely related
[21:54] <ochosi> at least that's what i've been trying to fix when i discovered the delay
[21:55] <elfy> but saying that - I've never had xubuntu logout me out any quicker
[21:55] <ochosi> really? 7 seconds?
[21:55] <elfy> yep
[21:55] <brainwash> about 7 seconds here too
[21:55] <ochosi> lordy
[21:55] <brainwash> feels like an eternity
[21:56] <elfy> rarely use it tbh 
[21:56] <ochosi> brainwash: btw, as you're always hanging out in the dev-channel, do you feel like contributing?
[21:58] <brainwash> ochosi: in which way? fixing nasty bugs? :D
[21:58] <elfy> I don't contribute like that ;)
[21:59] <ochosi> brainwash: hehe, no actually low-hanging fruit (but something we don't have enough time for)
[21:59] <Unit193> elfy: Nor do I, maybe it's just to troll. :*(
[22:00] <brainwash> I really should improve my programming/debugging skills
[22:00]  * elfy shudders 
[22:01] <ochosi> brainwash: well you can do something technical too if you want, but it was a more mundane task i had in mind
[22:02] <knome> Unit193, every project needs a troll, you're from the better side
[22:02] <Unit193> :D
[22:02] <brainwash> ochosi: can't tell without knowing any details
[22:03] <ochosi> brainwash: well basically we've wanted to add more wallpapers since deciding to go for a 1gb image
[22:03] <ochosi> and knome and me even set up a selection
[22:04] <ochosi> what would need to be done is getting in touch with the authors of the images, and checking the licenses etc
[22:04] <ochosi> then we could get that into our xubuntu-wallpapers package (or a new one)
[22:04] <knome> i'm personally thinking a realistic schedule is that the new stuff lands in 14.04.
[22:05] <brainwash> asking the guy who prefers having a simple solid black background :D
[22:05] <elfy> nice - so new menu editor/wallpaper - just need something to replace Ubuntu Slow Centre :)
[22:06] <knome> elfy, you mean menulibre?
[22:06] <elfy> yea
[22:07] <knome> heh
[22:07] <elfy> :)
[22:07] <knome> yeah, sounds like a solid plan for 14.05.
[22:07] <Unit193> elfy: Synaptic|apt-get, done. :D
[22:07] <knome> oh right, USC
[22:07] <brainwash> what about lubuntu's software center?
[22:07] <knome> haha
[22:07] <knome> yeah...
[22:07] <elfy> knew I should just have said goodnight ... 
[22:08] <Unit193> What about muon? :---D
[22:09] <brainwash> or ubuntu's web app center? https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/
[22:09] <brainwash> (not really an option though)
[22:10] <elfy> off up the wooden hill then - cya 
[22:12] <ochosi> brainwash: righty, well if ya change your mind you can always take a look at these: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Raring/Wallpapers
[22:15] <knome> ok, i'm off for today
[22:15] <knome> catch you all later
[22:17] <ochosi> seeya
[22:19] <brainwash> ochosi: the pictures upload to ubuntu lack any details about the author and the pictures hosted on flickr already offer legal information
[22:20] <ochosi> brainwash: some of them have the license info and author in the tooltip
[22:20] <brainwash> are these only user submissions (done by the author)?
[22:20] <ochosi> no
[22:20] <ochosi> these are picks by me and knome (mostly from flickr), pics 2, 3 and 5 are done by us
[22:21] <ochosi> (2,3 by me, 5 by knome)
[22:21] <ochosi> so for the remaining 8 we'd need the infos
[22:27] <ochosi> brainwash: btw, if you prefer debugging the logout bug, that'd be a great help too ;)
[22:27] <brainwash> ochosi: what about the license details provided in the info box (flickr)?
[22:27] <ochosi> brainwash: those should be fine
[22:27] <ochosi> but we need cc-by-sa
[22:28] <ochosi> so we'd have to ask some of the authors to change the license in order to be able to use them
[22:30] <Unit193> cc-sa wouldn't do?
[22:32] <ochosi> Unit193: i don't know that one, only cc-by-sa, or cc-by-nc-sa
[22:32] <ochosi> ah
[22:32] <ochosi> cc-sa has been retired
[22:33] <ochosi> i guess that could work too, but why not use the up-to-date cc-by-sa?