[06:40] <dholbach> good morning
[06:41] <dholbach> need to go to the vet, text me if there's anything important
[10:52] <dholbach> linkedin just told me that I've been working at Canonical for 8 years now :)
[10:52] <dholbach> holy cow - how time flies
[10:52] <smartboyhw> dholbach, wow
[10:52] <smartboyhw> Nice
[13:28] <jcastro> hey mhall119
[13:28] <jcastro> I have an idea
[13:29] <cjohnston> scarier words have never been said
[13:29] <cjohnston> What's up jcastro ?
[13:29] <nigelb> cjohnston: exactly my thought :P
[13:29] <jcastro> well for documenting the API part of developer.u.c
[13:29] <nigelb> cjohnston: where in the world are you?
[13:29] <jcastro> marcoceppi: are you around?
[13:30] <nigelb> (.. today)
[13:30] <marcoceppi> jcastro: aye
[13:30] <cjohnston> nigelb: Lexington right now
[13:30] <jcastro> what's up nigelb!!
[13:30] <cjohnston> I think
[13:30] <jcastro> marcoceppi: ok check this out
[13:30] <jcastro> http://pad.ubuntu.com/gj3WVIVV7Q
[13:30] <jcastro> so I am documenting the "get-relation" and so on
[13:31] <nigelb> cjohnston: :)
[13:31] <cjohnston> /23/36
[13:31] <nigelb> jcastro: just dropping by and saying hi :)
[13:31] <mhall119> cjohnston: lol
[13:31] <marcoceppi> jcastro: cool
[13:31] <mhall119> jcastro: what's your idea?
[13:31] <jcastro> mhall119: so what I was thinking
[13:32] <jcastro> was get this skeleton up now
[13:32] <jcastro> so I can get people to fill in the blanks
[13:32] <mhall119> ok...
[13:32] <jcastro> let me file up a few things
[13:32] <jcastro> hold on
[13:33] <mhall119> jcastro: you can just give them your etherpad link and have them fill it in there
[13:34] <jcastro> yeah
[13:34] <jcastro> but I was thinkign if we can get a skeleton up on 91.whatever it'll help visualize to people what we are trying to do
[13:34] <jcastro> "hey guys go fill in this etherpad" ... marco will be like, what? Lame.
[13:34] <jcastro> mhall119: or do like, one, I just need an example
[13:35] <mhall119> I gave you an example
[13:35] <mhall119> in the etherpad
[13:35] <jcastro> no I mean it rendered
[13:35] <jcastro> on the site
[13:35] <mhall119> oh. give me the pad link agian and I'll grab what's there
[13:36] <jcastro> http://pad.ubuntu.com/gj3WVIVV7Q
[13:36] <jcastro> top one is fine
[13:36] <jcastro> the rest I'll "flesh them out a little bit"
[13:36] <jcastro> heh, see what I did there?
[13:37] <mhall119> jcastro: wow, that sounded like management :)
[13:38] <marcoceppi> jcastro: are these meant to be accurate?
[13:38] <jcastro> no
[13:38] <jcastro> that's a template
[13:38] <marcoceppi> okay
[13:38] <jcastro> what I am doing is making the template so you guys can fill it in
[13:38] <marcoceppi> ack
[13:38] <jcastro> or ... if you know how to find the flags and shit to each one
[13:38] <jcastro> I can do that too
[13:39] <marcoceppi> jcastro: debug-hooks in to a unit, trip a hook, run the command with the --help flag
[13:39] <mhall119> wow that kind of ugly, actually
[13:39] <mhall119> http://91.189.93.79/api/Charms/13.10/Juju/juju_log/
[13:39] <marcoceppi> ya'll need some css
[13:39] <mhall119> marcoceppi: anthony dillon gave me some already, I need to integrate it with the current codebase
[13:40] <mhall119> I also need to refactor some data models to fit juju better
[13:40] <jcastro> mhall119: oh, I stupidly forgot to close some H2s
[13:40] <jcastro> fixed
[13:40] <mhall119> jcastro: ok, that looks better :)
[13:40] <jcastro> marcoceppi: so I need to figure out how to find the flags and arguments for each one, any idea how to do that?
[13:40] <jcastro> thumper gave me some pointers but it's all "first learn go, then go here", then 45 minutes of him talking to himself
[13:41] <marcoceppi> jcastro: debug-hooks in to a unit, trip a hook, run the command with the --help flag
[13:41] <mhall119> jcastro: also I need to know how Juju tracks versioning, is it per-Ubuntu-release or do you have your own versioning that you refer to?
[13:41] <jcastro> own versioning
[13:41] <mhall119> so what's the current version/
[13:41] <mhall119> ?
[13:41] <jcastro> 1.13 is unstable, 1.12 and 1.14 are stable
[13:41] <marcoceppi> mhall119: we have our own versions, however internal tools that are being documented will not change
[13:41] <jcastro> 1.12 currently, 1.14 will be in saucy
[13:42] <jcastro> marcoceppi: do I even need to trip a hook?
[13:42] <marcoceppi> mhall119: atleast not drastically, at best we may add another tool.
[13:42] <mhall119> jcastro: marcoceppi: link is now http://91.189.93.79/api/Charms/1.14/Juju/juju_log/
[13:42] <marcoceppi> jcastro: you need to be in a hook environment,the tools are not in path
[13:42] <jcastro> marcoceppi: excellent, so .. deploy like mysql or something, debug-hooks .... then ?
[13:43] <marcoceppi> jcastro: one sec, going to make this even easier for you
[13:43] <mhall119> jcastro: marcoceppi: I need something to distinguish different hooks available in different releases, that's all
[13:43] <jcastro> that would be <3
[13:43] <jcastro> mhall119: you probably won't need that from us for a long time.
[13:43] <mhall119> so if you add a new hook next year, it would have it's own URL space separate from the ones now
[13:43] <jcastro> but by then we'll sort out how to generate this stuff from juju itself from the versioned docs themselves
[13:43] <mhall119> jcastro: well I need it for the other APIs, so I need to map Juju to it somehow
[13:43] <jcastro> I get that
[13:43] <marcoceppi> bahhh, tools are too smart for now
[13:44] <jcastro> mhall119: I am giving talks in OLF all day tomorrow, so today is all about just getting the stuff up there.
[13:44] <jcastro> then on monday I can get yelled at by the core guys.
[13:44] <jcastro> but that's like, a whole 4 days away
[13:44] <mhall119> OLF starts tomorrow, not Saturday?
[13:44] <jcastro> ubucon is tomorrow
[13:45] <mhall119> ah, ok
[13:45] <balloons> gl jcastro
[13:45] <jcastro> gotta hit the road at 6am
[13:45] <mhall119> fun
[13:45] <jcastro> OLF is awesome, I need to get around users for a while
[13:45] <balloons> oh > mi :-p
[13:45] <jcastro> been in this little bubble too long
[13:46] <mhall119> up in the clouds
[13:47] <jcastro> marcoceppi: man, the local provider is so fast now
[13:47] <jcastro> it's like, I have this half-finished openstack deployment in like 15 containers ...
[13:47] <marcoceppi> jcastro: you on 1.13.3?
[13:48] <marcoceppi> or 1.15?
[13:48] <jcastro> 1.13.3
[13:49] <jcastro> marcoceppi: I can do whatever unholy thing you need if it helps
[13:49] <marcoceppi> jcastro: you're going to have to use debug hooks, it's just a fact of life
[13:50] <marcoceppi> jcastro: just want to make sure I give you the right information
[13:50] <jcastro> yeah that's fine, I don't mind doing the legwork
[13:51] <jcastro> just as long as the output is correct
[13:52] <jcastro> marcoceppi: ok I am in debug hooks
[13:52] <marcoceppi> jcastro: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6097098/
[13:53] <jcastro> dude ... !
[13:53] <jcastro> mhall119: dude, thumper was wrong
[13:53] <jcastro> they _DO_ document it right there
[13:53] <jcastro> ok ... that's good to know for long term
[13:53] <marcoceppi> jcastro: for future reference, get in to debug hooks, run juju set mysql/0 tuning-level='fast', inthe config change hook, run the commands with --help
[13:54] <marcoceppi> jcastro: yeah, they have help output for all of their commands, but you can't run those 8 commands without being in a hook environment
[13:54] <jcastro> GOT IT.
[13:55] <mhall119> jcastro: it's only because thumper hates you and is anti-community :)
[13:55] <jcastro> it's because canonical hates the community
[13:55] <marcoceppi> jcastro: http://i.imgur.com/YSVmR32.gif
[13:55] <mhall119> marcoceppi: lol
[13:55] <jcastro> marcoceppi: oh, I need to be in not 0 in tmux
[13:55] <mhall119> I *heard* that jingle too, in my head
[13:55] <jcastro> argh, how do you move to the next tab in raw tmux?
[13:56] <marcoceppi> jcastro: Ctrl + A, Space
[13:56] <smartboyhw> jcastro, let me paste that everywhere, and see how people treat you:)
[13:56] <jcastro> hmm, still not in the path, I am in myaql/0:config-changed
[13:56] <marcoceppi> jcastro: they are definitely there, try running unit-get --help
[13:57] <jcastro> oh duh
[13:57] <jcastro> I don't need the ./
[13:57] <jcastro> marcoceppi: AWESOME, I am all set. thanks!
[13:57] <jcastro> mhall119: I should have this done in an hour or so
[13:57] <marcoceppi> jcastro: yeah, I was in /var/lib/juju/tools/1.13.*/, just so I knew all the commands
[13:58] <jcastro> yeah so this is way better than reading the source code
[13:58] <marcoceppi> jcastro: duh ;)
[13:59] <jcastro> mhall119: how flexible am I with the headers
[13:59] <jcastro> like if I want to change "arguments" to "options"
[13:59] <jcastro> I mean flags to options
[13:59] <marcoceppi> jcastro: mhall119 due to compatibility issues, these will almost always be the same, so it's the same options as it's been since like 0.3 of juju.  There have been a few enhancments, but there will never be a compatibility break
[14:03] <jcastro> mhall119: ok so I think I can trim down my sections to just
[14:03] <jcastro> Usage and Examples, and Options
[14:05] <mhall119> jcastro: you can do whatever you want in that chunk of HTML
[14:05] <mhall119> but if you use an iframe I will find you, and I will kill you
[14:08] <jcastro> marcoceppi: my examples will be badass too
[14:08] <marcoceppi> jcastro: they better be.
[14:10] <jcastro> marcoceppi: I am just searching for each one in the store and stealing from real hooks
[14:10] <mhall119> marcoceppi: surely you will add more hooks at some point in the future
[14:11] <marcoceppi> mhall119: these aren't hooks, they're tools used in hooks. I don't forsee new ones being add in the near future
[14:11] <marcoceppi> mhall119: but it's fiesable. Though it'll always be additions, never subtractions
[14:13] <mhall119> right
[14:13] <jcastro> these are more like busybox than bash
[14:13] <jcastro> :)
[14:13] <jcastro> that's how I think about it
[14:19] <jcastro> marcoceppi: check out my open-port examples son
[14:19] <jcastro> http://pad.ubuntu.com/gj3WVIVV7Q
[14:19] <jcastro> lines 57-69
[14:20] <marcoceppi> dayumn
[14:20] <jcastro> examples with other commands.
[14:20] <jcastro> that's like a new thing in unix tools. COMMON SENSE.
[14:20] <marcoceppi> jcastro: you should link those other commands to their help pages
[14:20] <marcoceppi> jcastro: for total pwnage
[14:21] <jcastro> oooh, where are their help pages?
[14:21] <marcoceppi> jcastro: arent' you making them right now?
[14:21] <jcastro> yeah
[14:21] <jcastro> oh, you mean cross-links?
[14:21] <marcoceppi> yes
[14:21] <jcastro> mhall119: oooh, I can do that right?
[14:21] <jcastro> or will each page show on the sidebar anyway?
[14:21] <jcastro> marcoceppi: ok after I get them all done and deployed, then I'll get fancy
[14:23] <mhall119> jcastro: which pages are you talking about?
[14:24] <jcastro> the ones I am writing
[14:24] <jcastro> when they are split into individual pages
[14:24] <mhall119> for wordpress or the API site?
[14:24] <jcastro> API
[14:24] <mhall119> you can cross link, but the full URL path isn't final yet
[14:24] <jcastro> ok
[14:24] <mhall119> you should be able to link to peer-level pages though
[14:25] <mhall119> using relative paths
[14:25] <jcastro> nod
[14:25] <jcastro> after I get the initial cut done I'll do that next
[14:25] <mhall119> so ./open-port/ from juju-log would work
[14:25] <jcastro> marcoceppi: lol: pub_addr=`unit-get private-address`
[14:25] <mhall119> though you can't use hyphens currently, I need to fix that
[14:30] <marcoceppi> jcastro: ha, perfect example
[14:32] <jono> hey dpm
[14:32] <dpm> hi jono
[14:32] <jono> what is the current status of the d.u.c Landing/Overview pages?
[14:32] <jono> that I mailed about yesterday
[14:34] <dpm> jono, I'm still on it. I'm updating the get started sections to be overview and now I'm working on the Apps landing page
[14:35] <mhall119> jcastro: marcoceppi: hyphens are allowed now: http://91.189.93.79/api/Charms/1.14/Juju/juju-log/
[14:35] <jcastro> \o/
[14:36] <jcastro> only 4 commands left!
[14:36] <jcastro> then my API section is D O N E.
[14:37] <jcastro> mhall119: when this goes live, we can give ubuntu teams write access right?
[14:38] <jcastro> so if I do like "ok I've got basic examples of most of the commands, but I need you guys to fill in some brutal advanced examples" they can do so?
[14:38] <jono> dpm, cool
[14:38] <jono> thanks dpm
[14:38] <mhall119> jcastro: no, these parts should be statis and auto-generated going forward
[14:39]  * jcastro nods
[14:39] <jcastro> ok, so we'll just make them commit the examples to the --help sections then
[14:39] <mhall119> jcastro: *but*, the new site will allow community additions, such as extra advanced examples
[14:39] <mhall119> snippets, tutorials, etc
[14:39] <jcastro> actually, it's stupid of me to even bring it up the first time, nm.
[14:39]  * jcastro nods
[14:40] <dpm> jono, you should see more visible updates in a couple of hours. I've also been coordinating with the Scopes, Cloud (and later on today) Web/HTML team around the requirements to get their docs on d.u.c. You should see the status on the document I shared.
[14:56] <jcastro> marcoceppi: hah kill me
[14:56] <jcastro> marcoceppi: I wrote up a bunch of examples
[14:56] <jcastro> and just stumbled on mims' way awesomer than mine examples I could have just ripped off
[14:56] <marcoceppi> jcastro: that's what you get for trying too hard
[15:02] <jcastro> hey mhall119
[15:02] <mhall119> hey jcastro
[15:02] <jcastro> http://pad.ubuntu.com/gj3WVIVV7Q
[15:02] <jcastro> done.
[15:02] <jcastro> dpm: ok, what page is next?
[15:02] <jcastro> for Cloud?
[15:08] <mhall119> jcastro: http://91.189.93.79/api/Charms/1.14/Juju/
[15:09] <marcoceppi> jcastro: your htmlneeds a little more love
[15:09] <jcastro> http://91.189.93.79/api/Charms/1.14/Juju/relation-get/
[15:09] <jcastro> yeah
[15:09] <jcastro> I see that
[15:09] <marcoceppi> use <pre> instead of <code>
[15:10] <mhall119> use both, actually
[15:10] <marcoceppi> jcastro: pre is preformatted and will display as a block element, code is inline-block
[15:10] <jcastro> mhall119's template had <code>

[15:10] <jcastro> oh dude!!
[15:10] <jcastro> got it
[15:10] <marcoceppi> mhall119: not semantic
[15:10] <marcoceppi> mhall119: and not recommended
[15:10] <marcoceppi> last I checked
[15:10] <mhall119> marcoceppi: probably not, no
[15:10] <jcastro> mhall119: I can just fix it in WP
[15:10] <mhall119> it's not in WP jcastro
[15:10] <jcastro> oh
[15:10] <jcastro> ok, so you want me to fix it in etherpad?
[15:11] <jcastro> also, would it be easier to push this to lp or something?
[15:11] <marcoceppi> I guess <pre><code> is okay, the internet is still divided on this
[15:11] <marcoceppi> jcastro: do whatever mhall119 says to
[15:11] <jcastro> marcoceppi: that debug-hooks thing saved me so much time you have no idea!
[15:12] <mhall119> marcoceppi: I think the CSS for the main developer portal makes <code> display: block anyway
[15:12] <mhall119> but it doesn't preserve whitespace
[15:13] <marcoceppi> mhall119: that's not the case in the page you linked
[15:13] <jcastro> he hasn't added the CSS yet
[15:13] <marcoceppi> jcastro: ah
[15:13] <mhall119> yeah, working on functionality first
[15:14] <jcastro> marcoceppi: don't ask too many questions, you might end up assigned to fix everything you point out
[15:14] <jcastro> Welcome to Ubuntu!
[15:14] <jcastro> :p
[15:14]  * marcoceppi slinks back to working on packaging
[15:15] <jcastro> mhall119: ok so <pre><code></code></pre> for each code block?
[15:15] <smartboyhw> marcoceppi, same as me here (packaging)
[15:16] <mhall119> jcastro: that works for now, yes
[15:18] <jcastro> mhall119: ok all set
[15:18] <jcastro> ah, I need some <p>'s in there
[15:19] <mhall119> jcastro: are you editing the django entry or the etherpad?
[15:20] <jcastro> django
[15:21] <jcastro> man, it's so hilarious how horribly spoiled Markdown makes you
[15:22] <jcastro> http://91.189.93.79/api/Charms/1.14/Juju/relation-get/
[15:22] <jcastro> mhall119: ok so I've <p>'ed up the stuff, but there's a lack of whitespace after the codeblocks, is that a CSS fixable thing?
[15:24] <mhall119> jcastro: you mean spacing below the code block?
[15:24] <jcastro> yeah
[15:25] <mhall119> yeah, I can fix that in CSS later
[15:26] <jcastro> ok
[15:26] <jcastro> so how's that look?
[15:27] <mhall119> jcastro: looks great!  thanks man
[15:30] <jcastro> hey dpm I kind of have 2 Landing pages
[15:30] <jcastro> http://91.189.93.79/cloud/get-started/
[15:30] <jcastro> http://91.189.93.79/cloud/what-is-a-juju-charm/
[15:30] <jcastro> not sure which one should be the real landing page
[15:30] <mhall119> /cloud/ is your landing page
[15:34] <dpm> jcastro, as Mike says: the landing page is /cloud
[15:34] <dpm> jcastro, get-started I'm going to rename to overview to be consistent with the rest of the site
[15:34] <jcastro> ok
[15:35] <dpm> and we can merge what-is-a-juju-charm into overview
[15:35] <dpm> let me do this real quick to give you something to start on
[15:42] <popey> does anyone else on saucy get double notifications?
[15:43] <jcastro> dpm: yeah but it's important to remember that overview isn't just for charms
[15:43] <jcastro> it'll be for simplestreams, MAAS, and charms, and whatever else we're working on
[15:46] <dpm> jcastro, ah, I thought we were just doing charms on d.u.c. In any case, could you sync with evilnick? After our call this morning he told me he didn't know we were moving those docs to d.u.c
[15:46] <jcastro> I am syncing with him now
[15:47] <dpm> cool
[16:02] <jcastro> <-- lunching
[16:54] <dpm> jcastro, sorry, I got sidetracked and never answered your question on landing page. Can we have a call once you're done with lunch?
[16:54] <dpm> and I can't write either. I meant on the /cloud/ landing page
[16:54] <jcastro> dpm: fire it up! I'm ready
[16:56] <dpm> ok, cool, setting up the hangout
[16:58] <dpm_> jcastro, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/cb747b5837d16513c965faf0cbdf2dfa0ce87e01