[00:31] <grantbow> pleia2: more crowded that usual downstairs :-)
[00:32] <pleia2> grantbow: good to know, just wrapping up some work things here and I'll be down
[00:42] <grantbow> s/that/than/
[01:37] <grantbow> six people are at the SF Ubuntu Hour now :-)
[20:52]  * grantbow clicks publish for "Touch Demo Presentation" at http://grantbow.wordpress.com
[20:52] <darthrobot> Title: [Open Source Reasoning | Conveying nuggets along the way]
[20:55] <troyready> Great post
[20:56] <grantbow> thanks!
[20:56] <raevol> why doesn't tasksel respond to ctrl+c :(
[21:00] <grantbow> wow, I haven't used tasksel in a long time
[21:12] <raevol> what do you use? tasksel is what the ubuntu wiki says to use to install lamp-server
[21:20] <grantbow> I do use it from the installer, but not as a separate command in a long time
[21:29] <raevol> hmm
[21:38] <grantbow> or just apt-get install
[22:35] <bkerensa> https://www.facebook.com/Firefox/posts/10153225363455022
[22:35] <darthrobot> Title: [Redirecting...]
[22:37] <raevol> so i'm sorry if this has been discussed to death, but is everyone's objection to Mir the licensing issue?
[22:40] <pleia2> nah, the objection is that wayland is where most projects are spending effort rewriting device drivers, and canonical decided to write their own instead
[22:41] <pleia2> so they expect intel, nvidia, and then kde, xfce et all the write stuff for wayland and mir, rather than everyone working on wayland
[22:42] <pleia2> canonical's argument is that wayland is slow moving development-wise difficult to work with so they want to do their own thing, but they also said this about gnome so that argument is starting to wear thin :\
[22:42] <pleia2> s/all/al
[22:43] <raevol> hmm
[22:43] <raevol> i can definitely understand gnome being hard to work with, considering how hard gnome is to use
[22:43] <pleia2> wayland also isn't moving fast enough for canonical to use it soon as the display manager for phones within a few months (probably true)
[22:44] <pleia2> the gnome community has historically been a bit difficult to work with
[22:45] <raevol> hmm
[22:45] <pleia2> my inclination is that they should have just found a way to work with wayland rather than create their whole new thing, but I am not well-versed in the technical or social concerns there
[22:46] <raevol> i can understand not wanting to fragment display servers and such, but considering canonical actually gets work done while other people sit around and twiddle their thumbs...
[22:46] <raevol> we'll see how people feel when mir is running like a champ and wayland is still in heavy development
[22:46] <raevol> we'll see though, i dunno what will happen
[22:46] <pleia2> the argument is canonical should have been driving upstream wayland work and putting money there rather than "I give up, we will make our own thing!:"
[22:47] <pleia2> honestly I don't know how realistic that was though, or how hard they tried
[22:47] <raevol> kdub might know, but might not be able to say
[22:47] <pleia2> certainly is easier to just do your own thing, initially anyway
[22:47] <raevol> is mir still planned to ship with saucy?
[22:48] <pleia2> no, XMir is though
[22:48] <pleia2> xmir is just the xorg emulation thing for mir, everything still uses xorg stuff
[22:48] <pleia2> (I am sure I explained that wrong, but that's the general idea)
[22:49] <kdub> eh, the whole worry is a bit overblown :)
[22:49] <raevol> hmm
[22:50] <raevol> will mir eliminate the need for compiz? that probably shows how little i know about this
[22:50] <kdub> raevol, mir is the system compositor, meaning that it is the program that owns the display
[22:50] <kdub> xmir is an xserver that will run on mir
[22:51] <kdub> and all the clients will still connect to an xserver and run that way
[22:51] <kdub> (in saucy)
[22:51] <raevol> i see
[22:51] <raevol> is compiz a compositor to some extent? it's a window manager right, but is it included because of it's compositing capabilties?
[22:52] <kdub> compiz is /X's/ compositor
[22:52] <pleia2> and comes with a window manager
[22:52] <kdub> so if you have 3 clients connecting to X (with an xmir backend), they are assembled to 1 image via compiz
[22:53] <kdub> and that final image X made is handed off to mir to put on the display (without a huge performance hit)
[22:53] <kdub> and thats in saucy
[22:53] <kdub> eventually, x will get squeezed smaller
[22:54] <raevol> e_e
[22:54] <raevol> this seems needlessly complicated
[22:54] <raevol> but i don't know much about it
[22:55] <pleia2> graphics are for n00bs anyway, cli 4ever
[22:55] <pleia2> ;)
[22:55] <kdub> raevol, saucy's architecture is (a bit) but thats because we're transitioning to a new system
[22:56] <raevol> i see
[22:56] <raevol> pleia2: cli half-life 2
[22:56] <pleia2> that's what aalib is for
[22:56] <raevol> cli youtube
[22:56] <pleia2> that too
[22:58] <raevol> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i33o71JyzYc
[22:58] <darthrobot> Title: [Game of the Thrones - VLC - ASCII - Linux Ncurses - YouTube]
[22:59] <pleia2> I remember aalib being black and white, maybe that's an improved version :)
[23:01] <raevol> haha
[23:01] <raevol> the wonders of modern technology
[23:02] <raevol> next thing you know they're going to be able to render 16-bit sprites instead of just ascii characters
[23:05] <raevol> and maybe something they'll have full color, full resolution textures that they can render to the screen with 3d transforms and stuff..
[23:05] <raevol> s/something/someday
[23:05] <raevol> ;P
[23:11] <pleia2> lol