[00:05] <u-k-i-t> I apologise if I ask hard questions and seem a bit rough. I only want the best for ubuntu-gnome, but I will stick the boot in and ask when not sure.
[00:06] <bjsnider> you sound sure
[00:08] <u-k-i-t> When it comes to xterm I am fairly sure. Should we ask of anyone who has ever needed or been dropped  back too it?
[00:11] <jbicha> I wanted to not include evolution by default since that's at least 10MB I believe but I wasn't able to get enough people to support that bold of a move
[00:12] <u-k-i-t> If xterm was so important it would b a dep of X, which it isn't and easy to remove. Would it?
[00:13] <u-k-i-t> jbicha: Evolution is an basic app off a basic business system. Lets look at dropping more sh*t as in emapthy?
[00:14] <u-k-i-t> Many tyos, but you get it.
[00:14] <u-k-i-t> Need new fingers. ;-)
[00:15] <u-k-i-t> jbicha: Drop games and social not a basic email / pim app.
[00:19] <u-k-i-t> jbicha: Are you attempting to get down to CD size? If you are don't bother these days. These days it's always about correct default install choices; and they can be hard. :-D
[00:22] <jbicha> uh, you're the one complaining about 1 MB
[00:23] <bjsnider> xterm seems to be personally offensive to him
[00:24] <u-k-i-t> jbicha: That is a bad 1MB. Don't dop evolution as that kills a basic os install for business. Look at games and other things please.
[00:25] <jbicha> Ubuntu GNOME is a general purpose OS
[00:26] <jbicha> while it can be be used for business, I recommend serious businesses use a custom image
[00:26] <bjsnider> they should use centos i suppose
[00:26] <bjsnider> or rhel if they can afford it
[00:27] <u-k-i-t> bjsnider: I like apps I am looking at what is best os wide. Please don't make it personal as it is not.
[00:29] <u-k-i-t> jbicha: If general purpose. That's a wide scope. Is it to be stable or  play OS. Does the group have a goal?
[00:30] <u-k-i-t> 13.10 is stable now. As that what I am chatting too you off. :-)
[00:44] <u-k-i-t> bjsnider: Should that be use centos id that cannot afford rhel.. Look I use and promote a deian base these days. I want a decent desktop to promote to customers, but the one is ubuntu gnome but the project will not LTS yet.
[00:45] <u-k-i-t> s/id/if
[00:52] <u-k-i-t> jbicha: Rather than dealing with evolution. How about this one bug 1218818
[00:52] <ubot5> bug 1218818 in cheese (Ubuntu) "ubuntu gnome - cheese-common - attempt to purge tries pulling out gnome-contacts etc." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1218818
[00:52] <u-k-i-t> :-)
[00:54] <jbicha> libcheese is a base GNOME library; you can't remove it without rebuilding several apps to not have webcam support
[00:59] <u-k-i-t> jbicha: Why though. It is rubbish that some crap webacam app that should that dep'ed up?
[01:00] <u-k-i-t> Under my thinking it should not be default installed.
[01:02] <u-k-i-t> We are not catering to geeks like me. ;-) This is business. To get a distro known give people the basic and let them add on.
[01:03] <jbicha> libcheese (or cheese-common) is not a webcam app; it's a library that webcam apps can use
[01:03] <jbicha> you can uninstall cheese
[01:04] <u-k-i-t> jbicha: You said about removing evolution. I would agree with that IF ther was a email app selection screen at install.
[01:04] <jbicha> Ubuntu GNOME is not a business - we have no income
[01:05] <jbicha> if you want to run a business based on Ubuntu GNOME, you're welcome to recompile apps for your own purposes
[01:06] <u-k-i-t> jbicha: Who actually heads ubuntu gnome?
[01:07] <jbicha> we're a community project
[01:08] <u-k-i-t> Mr Riddell heads Kubuntu. Who is the last stand for this one?
[01:08] <jbicha> darkxst is technical lead but there are other people with other responsibilities
[01:11] <u-k-i-t> Technical maybe. Who has lead of how the OS evolves and how it looks etc. ?
[01:12] <jbicha> that's what 'technical lead' means; there's a different guy that's artwork lead though
[01:14] <u-k-i-t> Do I have to really ask it -Who's the project boss?
[01:15] <u-k-i-t> jbicha: Don't ever invalidate a bug of mine again!
[01:17] <u-k-i-t> They are valid for a reason Ok.
[01:18] <jbicha> the bug is invalid, I just marked it as such
[01:19] <micahg> u-k-i-t: developers are allowed to invalidate bugs that are such, he did give the reason why it wasn't valid
[01:19] <u-k-i-t> micahg: I just un invalidated it. ;-)
[01:20]  * micahg knows what the next step for the bug is ;)
[01:20] <bjsnider> micahg, how you doing?
[01:20] <micahg> bjsnider: fine, thanks, been a bit busy
[01:20] <bjsnider> coolio. how's firefox?
[01:21] <micahg> hrm, needs help
[01:21] <micahg> I wish I had more time
[01:21] <jbicha> u-k-i-t: would you prefer I mark the bug "Won't Fix" ?
[01:21] <bjsnider> everything seems to need more help
[01:23] <u-k-i-t> jbicha: I see I am being I am being ganged up on for a valid bug. Ubuntu does not allow a dev to report bugs I assume.
[01:23] <micahg> u-k-i-t: you should be able to purge the app "cheese", the library is another isue
[01:24] <u-k-i-t> micahg: Look at the bug report
[01:24] <micahg> what did you purge?  it says cheese-common which is again, not cheese
[01:25] <u-k-i-t> micahg: By usage 'cheese-common' supplies function and api to 'cheese'. So why are other  apps deps of it?
[01:26] <micahg> it's arch:all files for the cheese binary as well as the library
[01:27] <micahg> this is common in Debian packaging
[01:27] <bjsnider> thought it was -data that held arch-indep files?
[01:27] <micahg> depends on what's inside, both are common names
[01:28] <bjsnider> anything in /usr/share
[01:28] <u-k-i-t> micahg: Its an app that nobody wants, it;s crap.
[01:28] <micahg> the app is cheese, the library and other files provide webcam functionality to other apps
[01:30] <u-k-i-t> You assume people have or want webcam. Big F*ckup.
[01:30] <jbicha> u-k-i-t: please stop. Your language is getting very irritating and is not respectful
[01:30] <micahg> that's how upstream expects the app to be built, if they wanted it runtime detectable, they'd use dlopen
[01:32] <u-k-i-t> jbicha: I have not used bad language, but maybe asked hard questions ... Thats Ok isn't it?
[01:34] <jbicha> your previous two statements had extra commentary at the end that I found rude
[01:35] <u-k-i-t> I got multiple answers and a member threatening the next status on a bug report. How should I react?
[01:35] <micahg> I wasn't threatening, just informing
[01:35] <micahg> sorry if you felt threatened
[01:36] <u-k-i-t> micahg: it came across as "what you do next we revert".
[01:37] <jbicha> u-k-i-t: you have a right to file bugs and express opinions, but bugs that cannot be fixed have to be closed so that we can see which bugs are left that can be fixed
[01:38] <jbicha> anyway, I'm logging off
[01:39] <Zoiaguyver> take care jbicha
[01:40] <u-k-i-t> You have been a part of intimidated a user.; Actually a developer. Not nice!
[01:40] <u-k-i-t> Bye jbicha
[01:41] <u-k-i-t> You guys really need to learn how to deal with people.
[01:44] <Zoiaguyver> Well it depends on what it is in relation to I guess.
[01:44] <u-k-i-t> This project willnot suport 14.04 LTS. Let me know if you can help.
[01:44] <bjsnider> i don't know that i've seen a good cop/bad cop routine with one person playing both parts before
[01:45] <micahg> it's a trap!
[01:45] <Zoiaguyver> Ubuntu gnome doesn't have LTS releases at the moment, 13.10 is only the second official release, they have very few testers and even less maintainers
[01:45] <Zoiaguyver> or will be the second sorry..
[01:51] <u-k-i-t> How do I reply now. People have a go about me as a person but not dealt with my question.
[01:52] <micahg> the bug is invalid, it cannot be fixed in Debian or Ubuntu, you could petition the GNOME project to dlopen libcheese
[01:53] <micahg> https://bugzilla.gnome.org you can file the issue against whichever product builds with webcam support
[01:53] <u-k-i-t> micahg: It can be fixed. Ok I will fixx it and allow it to not pull out the main apps.
[01:54] <micahg> u-k-i-t: I'm saying from an archive perspective it can't be unless it uses dlopen (then it can be moved to a recommends)
[01:55] <micahg> hrm, I should've checked first, looks like there is some dlopen support, I'm not sure for what
[01:56]  * micahg will leave someone more GNOMEish to answer now
[01:56] <u-k-i-t> micahg: Don't worry about it. It's already dealt with in my respin.
[12:36] <u-k-i-t> Sorry all for using the 'f' word last night. I used it in context and it just flowed when I probably should have thought more before typing. Apologies.
[13:11] <docstr> hi
[13:11] <docstr> is there a lts version of ubuntu gnome?
[14:27] <davidbrooke> Ubuntu gnome started with release 13.04...so I don't think so
[17:22] <ricotz> darkxst, ping
[17:24] <ricotz> darkxst, the e-d-s package is pretty broken :\
[17:24] <ricotz> there are several soname bumps not considered
[17:26] <ricotz> this a real problem, but i can't deal with it right now
[18:10] <bjsnider> look how many packages it builds. the control file must be 500 lines