[07:40] <AlanBell> happy saturday everyone
[08:05] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:06] <MartijnVdS> \o
[08:09] <GentileBen> MartijnVdS, are you watching the game today?
[08:36] <popey> Morning all
[08:40]  * AlanBell gets back to being all web 2.0 with http://exceptionalemails.com/ (feedback appreciated)
[08:41] <AlanBell> oops, didn't mean to say that here, but never mind :)
[09:06] <mungbean> making more 8-bit hama stuff :) http://i.imgur.com/3YcCQ11.jpg?1
[09:07] <popey> hah, nice
[09:09] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:12] <mungbean> gonna have to get the light box out of the loft this w/end
[09:12] <mungbean> noticing the gloominess already in my energy levels
[09:14] <brobostigon> SAD ?
[09:17] <mungbean> who doesn't notice it?
[09:17] <mungbean> i assume everyone does. the sunlight energises me
[09:17] <mungbean> feel wasted last couple of days ,
[09:37] <bigcalm> Good 2nd morning peeps :)
[09:38] <brobostigon> morning bigcalm
[09:38] <brobostigon> mungbean: i think i sleep better, with less bright sun in my eyes.
[09:39] <mungbean> yes, i use eyepatches to sleep
[09:40] <brobostigon> that works.
[09:40] <mungbean> but i have to get up to feed baby or reposition my boy in his bed mulitple times per night :(
[09:40] <mungbean> 4 hours unbroken sleep is something to strive for
[09:41] <brobostigon> :(
[11:16] <mungbean> my 3yr old is using unity lol
[11:16] <mungbean> siwtching tasks, running clementine, choosing tracks/pausing
[11:19] <penguin42> hehe good, so when do you teach them to code :-)
[11:25] <mungbean> when he can play minecraft
[11:27]  * AlanBell has been installing minecraft mods to keep offspring happy
[13:19] <MartijnVdS> ♫ You gotta keep'em separated ?
[13:20] <daftykins> 8D
[13:20] <daftykins> Offspring \o/
[14:32] <bubu> hey guys, how can I dpkg -i a .deb package and pass in options so that all the defaults are accepted during install?
[14:48] <funkyHat> bubu: DEBIAN_PRIORITY=high dpkg ...
[14:49] <funkyHat> bubu: or critical (bear in mind that even with critical it will still ask you for "critical" questions... there aren't many of those though
[15:03]  * AlanBell finds a copy of the original SUN microsystems Java whitepaper from 1995
[16:45] <bashrc> Are there any mobile boradband USB adapters which work especially well with ubuntu?
[16:47] <brobostigon> androids tethering seems to work well.
[16:48] <bashrc> is that tethering to a mobile phone?
[16:48] <dwatkins> bashrc: I have a Vodafone Huawei one which seemed to work fine, although I'm not sure if its firmware also sends data to the manufacturer.
[16:50] <bashrc> so I could become a cosmopolitan cafe dweller and yet still be on the internets
[16:50] <dwatkins> You might want to check that tethering is allowed on your mobile contract, bashrc - sometimes it's not.
[16:51] <bashrc> I wouldn't try to tether, I'd just get a USB adapter
[16:52] <dwatkins> I tether all the time on my Three phone.
[16:52] <dwatkins> well, not "all" the time, just quite a lot.
[16:52] <brobostigon> me also.
[16:53] <bashrc> I guess I'll just have to get one and see if it works
[17:12] <dex90_>  /join #ubuntu
[17:13] <dex90_> exit
[17:34] <SuperEngineer> Dr. Who "best of" tonight - beeb1 7->7.30pm .... sounds fun
[17:34] <brobostigon> yep.
[17:34] <SuperEngineer> :)
[17:35] <brobostigon> :)
[17:36] <SuperEngineer> just spent 1 boring hour clearing rubbish from WinXP partion.. and that was their best yet?
[17:36] <SuperEngineer> [old apps - registry - shortcuts -defrag ad infinitum
[17:37]  * SuperEngineer yawns
[18:00] <SuperEngineer> Dr. Who time folks ;)
[18:02] <SuperEngineer> just realised earlier line should show beeb£ 1111 whoopos ;)
[18:02] <SuperEngineer> *beeb3
[18:04] <brobostigon> bbc3*
[20:13] <ali1234> so... semantic filesystems... do we actually have one on ubuntu, and the tools to make use of it?
[20:14] <penguin42> wth is a semantic filesystem?
[20:15] <daftykins> ^
[20:15] <ali1234> well, normal filesystems are heirarchical - they use directories, sub directories
[20:16] <ali1234> and files can only be in once place
[20:16] <ali1234> (hardlinks don't count cos they look like different files to most applications)
[20:16] <ali1234> a semantic filesystem doesn't have directories
[20:16] <penguin42> ok, so what does it look like?
[20:16] <ali1234> generally they use tags
[20:17] <penguin42> ali1234: How would you like to access it with conventional posix calls?
[20:17] <ali1234> well it can be mapped into a heirarchy
[20:18] <ali1234> each tag can be a directory
[20:18] <ali1234> then files will show up in multiple places
[20:18] <penguin42> ali1234: Sounds like something you could do with FUSE?
[20:18] <ali1234> perhaps
[20:19] <ali1234> the point is that you don't access it the way you'd access a normal filesystem
[20:19] <ali1234> there is no cd
[20:19] <ali1234> therefore there is no ls either
[20:19] <penguin42> looks like there are a few around
[20:19] <ali1234> so you need a whole new set of tools to really make use of it
[20:19] <ali1234> just having the filesystem is one thing, but it needs tools to be useful
[20:19] <penguin42> http://www.tagsistant.net/download for example
[20:20] <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh I mean you really need to rework things like the GUIs that open files
[20:20] <ali1234> yeah you would
[20:20] <ali1234> well, maybe not
[20:20] <ali1234> i mean, the biggest challenge is getting all your files into such a system, and then tagging them all correctly
[20:20] <ali1234> once that is done, you can access it by mapping back into a heirarchy
[20:21] <ali1234> so you don't need to reword existing tools... just need new ones
[20:21] <penguin42> ali1234: Well I think there are tag schemes already, and auto-indexers etc - so then you just need to wire the search things to look for those - but you need to change the 'save' dialog
[20:21] <ali1234> yeah, true
[20:21] <penguin42> ali1234: Like if you were writing a document and you hit save you need to do something different
[20:21] <ali1234> yes, you need it to ask for tags
[20:22] <penguin42> or auto generate from content?
[20:22] <ali1234> nah, automating it defeats the purpose
[20:22] <penguin42> why?
[20:22] <ali1234> the whole point is that human can categorize things better than the computer
[20:22] <penguin42> ali1234: Really?
[20:22] <ali1234> yeah, really
[20:23] <penguin42> ali1234: Probably true, but it's not a bad goal to suggest some - like G+ does when you post
[20:23] <ali1234> ok, but what about multiple files?
[20:23] <ali1234> like for example a source code directory?
[20:23] <penguin42> oh how you put source code in a system like that is a good question
[20:24] <ali1234> well the answer certainly isn't "let the computer guess what to do"
[20:24] <penguin42> ali1234: well  you probably have a project name in files in the source tree - e.g. in the metadata config
[20:25] <ali1234> "probably"
[20:25] <ali1234> now think about writing an auto-indexer that can recognise any open source project's source tree and tag it appropriately...
[20:25] <penguin42> ali1234: Well yeh, but it would be reasonable for it to suggest that; and say working in something like Eclipse you're dealing with source in your project, and adding code to classes etc - so in principal you don't need to think about files
[20:26] <ali1234> it's too late for that
[20:26] <penguin42> well yeh
[20:27] <penguin42> ali1234: But I think it's reasonable to provide a set of hints - and let a human add more
[20:27] <ali1234> imagine a command like "file" but for directories...
[20:27] <penguin42> certainly it's easy to recognise say class names
[20:29] <ali1234> what language?
[20:29] <penguin42> C++/Java any of the OO ones
[20:29] <penguin42> ali1234: I think there are already libraries/code out there to do that
[20:29] <ali1234> well file will tell you the language, maybe
[20:30] <penguin42> ali1234: I'm thinking of the syntax highlighters, and ctags like code
[20:30] <ali1234> but i think it would be faster to just go through and tag it by hand
[20:30] <ali1234> humans are still better at pattern recognition than computers
[20:31] <penguin42> yeh but source is typically pretty well structured - or it should be taken out and shot
[20:32] <penguin42> ali1234: I mean yeh good luck trying to extract a tag from a perl file :-)
[20:32] <penguin42> (although there is perldoc)
[20:32] <ali1234> even if you can detect the language you still don't know what it actually does
[20:33] <penguin42> no, but you can extract a class name
[23:00] <Monotoko> bah, I hate Saturday night upgrades
[23:01] <penguin42> saturday night's for fighting with apt?
[23:20] <dutchie> ugh
[23:20] <dutchie> why is there no confirmation for suspend
[23:21] <dutchie> second time now i've hit suspend when i meant to shut down
[23:21] <dutchie> it's really rather annoying
[23:22] <penguin42> dutchie: Normally because it's quickly reversable and people want to do it quickly and run out of the house with their laptop
[23:23] <dutchie> it's not that quick
[23:23] <dutchie> it's slow enough to be really annoying
[23:30] <penguin42> is anyone else seeing a block of junk on ebay's front page as the 1st of the 5 rotating adverts at the top?
[23:31] <penguin42> hmm, fixed on reload - very very odd