[02:03] <ali1234> hah. i know why indicator-sound worked briefly for elfy
[02:03] <ali1234> it's a race condition
[02:04] <ali1234> between the indicator and anything else that uses the service
[02:04] <ali1234> because the gtk3 indicators use d-bus service activation, the gtk3 dbus-backends can get loaded before the indicator plugins
[02:04] <ali1234> since they have the same service names, then the gtk2 version won't load
[02:04] <ali1234> so it breaks
[02:04] <ali1234> this is only a problem if you have the gtk2 and gtk3 versions installed at the same time
[02:05] <ali1234> but for some weird reason indicator-sound-gtk2 depends on indicator-sound
[02:11] <micahg> ali1234: hrm, that's bad, it makes sense though as the gtk3 version is progressing without concern for the gtk2 version, I guess our only hope might be to try for the gtk3 indicators, but I'm very reluctant still
[02:11] <micahg> maybe we can rename the gtk2 dbus services to not share the same names
[02:12] <ali1234> that will break all apps that use sound menu won't it?
[02:12] <ali1234> like rhythmbox won't be able to put it's controls in there
[02:12] <micahg> hrm
[02:12] <ali1234> i already thought of this :)
[02:12] <micahg> how did this all work before?
[02:12] <ali1234> before d-bus service activation was not used at all
[02:12] <ali1234> this is caused by indicator-ng
[02:13] <ali1234> not gtk3 directly
[02:13] <micahg> I don't see indicator-ng in saucy
[02:13] <ali1234> indicator-ng is new in saucy
[02:13] <ali1234> it's not a package
[02:13] <micahg> oh
[02:13] <ali1234> it's just "the new way"
[02:14] <micahg> aside from uploading the old gtk3 indicator stack, I'm not sure what to d
[02:15] <ali1234> i have a feeling that having indicator-sound-gtk2 depend on indcaitor-sound is unneccessary
[02:15] <ali1234> and that removing indicator-sound and rebooting would make indicator-sound-gtk2 work correctly in xfce
[02:15] <ali1234> (force removing without removing dependants that is)
[02:15] <micahg> well, it used to have files needed for the gtk2 versions to work
[02:16] <ali1234> which files?
[02:16] <micahg> ali1234: can you try that with equivs (or I can build you test packages)
[02:16] <micahg> idr, but that's why it was there originally
[02:16] <ali1234> i can't test, because all my stuff is patched for gtk3/indicator-ng
[02:17] <micahg> I wish I would've know this 3 weeks ago :(
[02:18] <ali1234> i'm not sure if that stuff i just said about d-bus activation is actually true
[02:18] <ali1234> i need to look at the raring packages really
[02:19] <micahg> it would be nice to know for sure, we've got 4 weeks left (2 for beta 2) and I'd hate to drop the rest of the indicators
[02:19] <ali1234> the rest?
[02:20] <micahg> well, if they're broke, I'm not sure we have any other choice but to drop or jump to patched gtk3
[02:20] <ali1234> there is only sound and appindcator that still have gtk2 versions
[02:21] <ali1234> and appindicator is currently broken in gtk3
[02:21] <ali1234> i need to make several vms...
[02:23] <micahg> ok, please let me know when you find something
[02:24] <ali1234> ok. it won't be tonight, it's 3am here
[02:24] <micahg> understood, whenever you get to it will be appreciated
[02:35] <Unit193> micahg: Just dropping the dep on on the gtk3 one might be something elfy can try, if it's a quick package install.
[02:35] <micahg> Unit193: sure, I can generate something, can you tell me which packages?  (appindicator and indicator-sound)?
[02:46] <Unit193> That'd be my guess, I was going to quickly try something in VM, but just broke that...
[03:07] <ali1234> ok i've got the vms going
[03:09] <ali1234> hmm interesting
[03:09] <ali1234> in raring, the service running is the gtk3 indicator service
[03:10] <ali1234> but it works
[03:12] <ali1234> so i guess the d-bus backends must have previously shared the same api, but now the gtk3 one has changed
[03:15] <ali1234> moving aside the d-bus service does not cause the gtk2 one to get loaded instead
[03:16] <ali1234> so the only way to really fix this is going to be to update the indicator to the new d-bus api
[03:27] <micahg> ali1234: let me know if that's fairly straightforward
[05:31] <Noskcaj> micahg, any progress on the pkg-xubuntu team?
[05:31] <micahg> Noskcaj: no, not yet
[05:31] <Noskcaj> :(
[05:32] <micahg> let me see if I can poke someone this weekend
[06:35] <Noskcaj> We'll probably need to package simple-scan and alacarte with the team too.
[06:36] <micahg> ok, sure
[13:38] <ali1234> micahg: the whole dbus service has been rewritten from scratch
[13:39] <ali1234> somewhere in this lot is what needs to be backported to -gtk2: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6110453/
[13:41] <ali1234> even the build system has been changed from make to cmake
[13:45] <brainwash_> I disabled the language indicator by setting "show-language-selector=false" in lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf, but one small white pixel still remains.
[13:45] <brainwash_> Anybody else noticed that?
[13:55] <jjfrv8> brainwash_, I can reproduce that
[13:58] <brainwash_> worth creating a bug report? I assume that (almost) nobody is affected by this little tiny glitch, it's just a white pixel after all :D
[15:46] <micahg> gah
[20:24] <Noskcaj> Did we do anything to xfce4-session this cycle? I get a heap of error messages when i turn on my PC from apps that it decided where open.
[20:24] <Noskcaj> Also, usb-modeset-data won't upgrade
[20:27] <ochosi> brainwash_: yeah, unfortunately it's known, we'll fix it eventually
[20:45] <micahg> hrm, ok, I'd like to know when that breaking change to the indicators landed if it was part of http://launchpadlibrarian.net/150184786/indicator-sound_12.10.2%2B13.10.20130829-0ubuntu1_12.10.2%2B13.10.20130913-0ubuntu1.diff.gz or something previous
[20:46] <micahg> if it was after feature freeze, we can push back
[20:55] <ochosi> i think at least the bugreport was earlier than FF
[21:02] <ochosi> micahg: any chance you can take a quick look at the gmusicbrowser patch?
[21:05] <micahg> yeah, in a bit
[21:17] <ochosi> nice, thanks
[21:37] <knome> jjfrv8, your merge proposal has been merged
[21:37] <ali1234> micahg: i looked at the sound-indicator thing and i can't see any reasonable way to make it work
[21:38] <ali1234> the whole dbus service looks like it has been rewritten and even the build system was changed from make to cmake
[21:38] <micahg> ali1234: can you tell which upload broke it?
[21:38] <ali1234> how do i see a list of uploads?
[21:39] <micahg> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+changelog
[21:39] <ali1234> the breakage is in the gtk3 indicator anyway - the gtk2 indicator has not changed at all since raring
[21:39] <micahg> right, I'm wondering if it was after feature freeze (Aug 29)
[21:40] <micahg> if so, I can most likely get it reverted and/or get help to make it work for us
[21:41] <micahg> otherwise, we might have to try to push our gtk3 stack in
[21:41] <ali1234> at a guess this one: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/12.10.2+13.10.20130716-0ubuntu1
[21:41] <ali1234> "sorry for the big changeset"
[21:41] <ali1234> can i download those debs and try them?
[21:41] <micahg> sure
[21:41] <micahg> just click on the arch you want
[21:42] <ali1234> ok i'll do a bisect and see what hapens
[21:42] <micahg> if it was back in July, it becomes our fault for not testing enough
[21:42] <ali1234> well, not really
[21:42] <micahg> if it's after Aug 29, they'd need a freeze exception and I'd have some leverage
[21:43] <micahg> I mean, some communication would've been nice, but if it's before feature freeze, there's not much we can do
[21:43] <ali1234> Reported by       Elfy       on 2013-07-22
[21:44] <micahg> :(
[21:44] <ali1234> that is the date the package after that one was uploaded
[21:44] <ali1234> still think it's that one though
[21:45] <ali1234> the fix would always have been "update the gtk2 indicator for the new api" anyway
[21:46] <ali1234> but from looking at the diff, that would be almost as complex as pushing the gtk3 stack instead
[21:46] <micahg> right
[21:46] <micahg> I'm thinking to do the latter with a release note
[21:46] <micahg> unfortunately, I don't see myself having this ready before next sunday
[21:48] <micahg> Canonical seems to love breaking APIs...
[21:48] <micahg> LTS+1 is the time to do that, not LTS-1
[21:49] <knome> are we cranky today?
[21:49] <micahg> maybe :)
[21:49]  * knome gives micahg a cookie
[21:49] <micahg> ali1234: do we know if the gtk3 stack will work with the new APIs
[21:49]  * micahg has sugar overload
[21:49] <ali1234> new APIs?
[21:50]  * knome takes the cookie away from micahg and gives him a glass of water
[21:50] <ali1234> which ones?
[21:50] <micahg> ali1234: indicator stack
[21:50] <ali1234> (it works with all of them actually)
[21:50] <ali1234> i ported the indicator-ng changes - the indicator-sound change is between the indicator itself and it's dbus backend and they both live in the same package if you're on gtk3
[21:50] <micahg> knome: I wasn't very happy to found a decision I made to preserve stability left us with a totally broken indicator stack due to existing changes this cycle
[21:51] <knome> mhm
[21:51] <micahg> ali1234: ok, thanks for your help with this, we'll have to do the best we can I geuss
[21:51] <knome> grumpyness doesn't fix the issue though, does it? :)
[21:51] <ali1234> the sound thing does boil down to dbus activation - you can only have one activation script and it activates the gtk3 dbus backend which *used* to work wit the gtk2 indicator but now they are out of sync
[21:51] <ali1234> there is a workaround on the bug actually
[21:52] <ali1234> someone put a test into the activation script so it runs the gtk2 backend if XUBUNTU_DESKTOP is set
[21:52] <micahg> which bug is this?
[21:53] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/1208204/comments/27
[21:53] <ali1234> (and the original report on 22 july is marked a duplicate of that)
[21:53] <ali1234> i'm just going to post a comment there summing up the situation
[21:55] <ochosi> at least i can say i've tested the gtk3 variant for quite a while now and it seems as stable as the gtk2 variant used to be
[21:56] <Unit193> But, need to roll something from git head.
[21:56] <micahg> I wonder what's working, hacking up the dbus service file or pushing gtk3 stack...
[21:56] <micahg> s/working/worse/
[21:57] <micahg> I have to run out for a bit, I'll be back
[21:57] <ochosi> well tbh the gtk3 stack seems a bit more sustainable
[21:57] <ochosi> hacking on the dbus stuff to keep gtk2 running for one more cycle...
[21:57] <ochosi> that sounds a bit like a waste of time
[21:58] <micahg> that's assuming it's just the service file
[21:58] <micahg> otherwise, agreed
[21:59] <knome> just for the sake it's not LTS, but LTS-1, +1 for the gtk3 stack...
[22:00] <ali1234> just patching the service file to always run the gtk2 backend does work (tested by others) but it also breaks other desktops since you can only have one service file
[22:00] <ali1234> adding a complex /bin/sh test to it might have weird side effects and is not tested
[22:00] <ochosi> can't you add a session-query like the sound-indicator does?
[22:00] <ali1234> add it to what though?
[22:01] <ochosi> some wrapper script
[22:01] <ali1234> that's what the workaround in comment 27 does
[22:01] <ochosi> ah right, hadn't looked at it so closely
[22:01] <ali1234> Exec=/bin/sh -c 'if [ -n "$(pidof xfce4-session)" ]; then /usr/lib/indicator-sound-gtk2/indicator-sound-service;else /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/indicator-sound/indicator-sound-service;fi'
[22:02] <ali1234> instead of just of Exec=/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/indicator-sound/indicator-sound-service
[22:02] <Unit193> Wouldn't it be better ot -f the file?
[22:02] <ali1234> well i don't know about that - it's just a proof of concept and i don't think anyone even really tested it
[22:02] <ali1234> i agree that gtk3 would be less hassle long term
[22:03] <ali1234> nobody is maintaining this gtk2 stuff any more
[22:03] <ali1234> that's the whole reason for the problem
[22:03] <ali1234> it's out of sync with gtk3 (again)
[22:03] <ali1234> and it will only keep happening
[22:03] <ochosi> very true
[22:03] <ochosi> it has happened before
[22:03] <ochosi> we lost the messaging-menu that way as well
[22:04] <ali1234> yeah, i know all about it :(
[22:04] <ali1234> as i said, it's why i didn't use xubuntu before
[22:05] <ochosi> well nice to have you "on board" now
[22:07] <ochosi> i prepared a tiny patch for the power-indicator to work with xfce4-powerman
[22:08] <ali1234> i only found out about the gtk3 progress because someone posted the irc log of the xmir meeting on reddit
[22:08] <ochosi> nice :)
[22:08] <ali1234> i don't care about xmir but the indicator stuff got me interested again
[22:08] <ali1234> i have not tested the power indicator cos i am on a desktop... don't even know how to make it show
[22:09] <ochosi> ah righ
[22:09] <ochosi> t
[22:09] <ochosi> well it's very basic tbh
[22:09] <ochosi> it shows a power-icon and a very short menu
[22:09] <ochosi> if the drivers support it, it shows brightness controls
[22:09] <ochosi> or maybe it needs more gnome-powerman for that
[22:09] <ali1234> i've seen it in unity on my laptop
[22:09] <ochosi> and then it shows the de/charging time/percent
[22:09] <ochosi> and it has a "preferences" menuitem
[22:10] <ali1234> but i rarely use that
[22:10] <ochosi> which i patched to open xfce4-powerman if it's run in a xubuntu session
[22:10] <ali1234> ah yes... all the indicators have checks to run different prefs panels in different desktops
[22:10] <ochosi> (agreeable it does create a problem in case someone uses gnome-powerman in xubuntu)
[22:10] <ali1234> there are lots in sound-indicator
[22:10] <ochosi> i know
[22:10] <ochosi> we could also fork the session menu if we wanted
[22:10] <ochosi> shouldn't be all-too-hard
[22:11] <ali1234> why?
[22:11] <ali1234> just to get the xfce session-save dialog?
[22:13] <ochosi> nah, i actually prefer xfce's action.menu
[22:15] <knome> be back later.
[23:07] <bluesabre> ali1234: hi, I'm trying to get the gtk3-indicators working, I've followed ochosi's instructions here: http://dpaste.com/1381815/
[23:08] <ali1234> ok
[23:08] <bluesabre> currently, everything seems to be working except for the sound indicator, see: http://imagebin.org/271044
[23:08] <ali1234> ther was one missing line iirc
[23:08] <ali1234> oh?
[23:08] <ali1234> that looks like it is working to me?
[23:08] <bluesabre> the sound indicator's volume slider and playback buttons are missing
[23:09] <ali1234> yes... theme perhaps?
[23:09] <bluesabre> using greybird from git, ochosi added support
[23:09] <ali1234> can you check the log...
[23:10] <ali1234> ~/.cache/xfce4-indicator-plugin.log
[23:10] <ali1234> look for missing icon warnings and so on
[23:10] <ali1234> no sure if they would show up there or not
[23:11] <bluesabre> aha
[23:11] <bluesabre> WARNING    Gtk                       gtk_menu_new_from_model: cannot find type 'com.canonical.unity.slider'
[23:11] <bluesabre> WARNING    Gtk                       gtk_menu_new_from_model: cannot find type 'com.canonical.unity.media-player'
[23:11] <bluesabre> WARNING    Gtk                       gtk_menu_new_from_model: cannot find type 'com.canonical.unity.playback-item'
[23:11] <ali1234> yeah that's it
[23:11] <ochosi> ali1234: i vaguely remember having seen bluesabre's problem before here myself, but i'm not sure why...
[23:11] <ali1234> ido provides several new menu models
[23:11] <ali1234> you might have the wrong version
[23:11] <ali1234> there is a gtk2 and a gtk3 version
[23:12] <bluesabre> ah, ok
[23:12] <ali1234> or maybe you don't have it at all
[23:12] <ali1234> i think andrzejr added possibility to compile without it
[23:12] <ali1234> then it won't get loaded
[23:12] <ali1234> so... make sure libido is installed and then rerun autogen.sh and rebuild the indicator-plugin (last thing you built)
[23:12] <bluesabre> ok, I'll try that now
[23:14] <ali1234> there are a couple of those warnings i still get even with ido installed properly
[23:14] <ali1234> WARNING    Gtk                       gtk_menu_new_from_model: cannot find type 'com.canonical.indicator.switch'
[23:15] <ali1234> but i can't find what library is supposed to supply that one and there is literally zero documentation from any of this com.canonical.indicator stuff
[23:15] <ochosi> yup, lack of docs really blows
[23:15] <ochosi> good luck bluesabre and night everyone!
[23:16] <bluesabre> woohoo, that did it, thanks a lot ali1234!
[23:17] <ochosi> hm, guess that should be included in the instructions...
[23:17] <bluesabre> :)
[23:17] <ali1234> ido is indicator-ng stuff, so it's newer than those instructions :)
[23:18] <ochosi> ali1234: i just received an update here on the sound-indicator that supposedly fixes scrolling
[23:18] <ochosi> will try to install that update and then report back whether it works (again)
[23:18] <ali1234> "just"?
[23:19] <ali1234> i updated earlier and no change
[23:19] <ali1234> earlier today i mean
[23:23] <ochosi> well i "just" ran update-manager now
[23:23] <ali1234> ok i see the fix
[23:23] <ali1234> but 1204036
[23:23] <ali1234> bug 1204036
[23:24] <ali1234> i have that version: it's still broken in xfce
[23:24] <ali1234> andrzejr said this was the case
[23:24] <ochosi> hm, then it's still broken with the xfce-plugin
[23:25] <ali1234> ok, at least i can try to fix it now
[23:25] <ochosi> yeah, but it sounded like he wasn't sure why
[23:25] <ali1234> maybe related to why child-added events aren't passed
[23:25] <ali1234> wait no, that is also broken on unity too
[23:25] <ali1234> can't be that
[23:26] <ochosi> m, i can confirm that it's broken
[23:26] <ochosi> in xfce
[23:26] <ochosi> ok, bedtime (this time for real)
[23:27] <ochosi> ttyl ali1234 
[23:27] <ali1234> night