[12:14] <gary_poster> hey rick_h_ are you looking at huw's branch or shall i?
[12:15] <gary_poster> I'm looking :-)
[12:16] <rick_h_> gary_poster: yea, not looking yet
[12:16] <gary_poster> cool
[12:17] <rick_h_> was spending a few min this morning looking if I could run the selenium tests locally
[12:17] <gary_poster> rick_h_, was thinking last night: after we have inspector done I'll ask two volunteers to go and focus on CI tests for a couple of weeks.  it's time.
[12:18] <gary_poster> we can spare those while we finish up bundle, I think/hope
[12:18] <gary_poster> by CI tests I mean infrastructure.  though I need to coordinate with Curtis to make sure that's not something they are already planning/working on
[12:19] <gary_poster> anyway, goals would be to be able to run selenium tests on lxc, and to be able to have a much more robust CI setup.  tarmac (or similar) would be extra credit.
[12:19] <rick_h_> gary_poster: yea, wit SST being something that we have in house experience with and such seems like it should be easy to get it going locally and some of the bugs we find would be great selenium tests to make sure we don't break anyway
[12:19] <rick_h_> anyway/again
[12:20] <rick_h_> but yea, looking at ci this morning. Found the one failure yesterday but looks like a new one now
[12:21] <rick_h_> I didn't get much qa done yesterday trying to find the cause for the first failure. Takes a while to trace things down via sauce
[12:21] <gary_poster> rick_h_, SST?  Structured Stream Trasport? Spitzer Space Telescope? Serum separating tube? :-)
[12:21] <gary_poster> Samoa standard time?
[12:21] <rick_h_> http://coreygoldberg.blogspot.com/2012/01/officially-introducing-sst-python-web.html
[12:21] <gary_poster> ah right, cool
[12:24] <gary_poster> rick_h_, looks like huw misunderstood style="display: none;" on textvalue checkbox and made it present again.  When I land this I'll add a comment explaining what's going on.
[12:24] <benji> so what's the status of CI?  I got a message after my EOD yesterday that my branch may have caused it to go south.  Looking at the failure it is an exception that says "Unable to complete test run."  Which isn't exactly informative. :)
[12:24] <rick_h_> gary_poster: hah, ok thanks. Yea I commented it in the MP and such but guess an inline one would have been good :/
[12:24] <gary_poster> benji, rick_h_ is looking at it AIUI.  check with him
[12:24] <rick_h_> benji: I'm looking right now. Saucelabs shows a single failed test in IE
[12:25] <rick_h_> benji: I'm trying to get the video to load to see what test failed. I'm on the laptop atm sans IE or I'd just run the tests in IE and look if I could dupe
[12:25] <rick_h_> benji: the screenshots show the failure count, but the failing tests isn't caught in the screenshots during scrolling
[12:25] <rick_h_> benji: it's toward the end of the suite, around 980+ 
[12:26] <benji> mmm, ok it seems like you have it in hand; let me know if there is anything I can do to help (I wish I had IE set up)
[12:26] <gary_poster> benji, you could get IE set up. ;-)
[12:26] <rick_h_> hmm, fails in FF as well
[12:27] <rick_h_> benji: it's the feature flag check.
[12:27] <rick_h_> benji: the failing test is "parses urls with and without flags" maybe you had a missing teardown step in your tests for your FF branch?
[12:28] <rick_h_> "AssertionError: expected { serviceInspector: true}  to deeply equal {}"
[12:28] <rick_h_> looking to see if I can dupe locally in FF
[12:28] <benji> rick_h_: I'm pretty sure I put a kill-all-the-flags step in my teardown, I'll look
[12:28] <benji> gary_poster: always the voice of reason... stop it
[12:29] <gary_poster> :-)
[12:30] <rick_h_> benji: ah, there's a hard coded addition to the FF in the tests to deal with the way we turned the inspector on without removing the flag
[12:30] <rick_h_> FF being feature flag not Firefox
[12:34] <rick_h_> gary_poster: anything against a branch to remove all traces of the feature flag? I don't get it to fail locally in FF but seems like it should be going away anyway
[12:36] <gary_poster> rick_h_, +.8.  No, scratch that, +1.  The only negative I have is that we only have one true blocker to release, other than the branch that hatch is about to land: we need to get the ghost save button to not be utterly broken, somehow.  But that's one or two people at most and I want to talk through it with hatch, so go for it, and thank you.
[12:36] <rick_h_> gary_poster: k, thanks
[12:42] <gary_poster> rick_h_, turns out he saw what you did with the single line thing and did it with a class.  improvement.  I'll stick with it.
[12:42] <rick_h_> gary_poster: ah, cool then. 
[13:13] <hatch> http://bricss.net/post/61487265011/auto-hiding-scrollbars-in-ie10
[13:19] <hatch> #1226905
[13:19] <hatch> bug #1226905
[13:19] <_mup_> Bug #1226905: Inspector ghost "Import config file..." doesn't work unless "Use default configuration?" is toggled off <inspector> <juju-gui:In Progress by huwshimi> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1226905>
[13:19] <gary_poster> morning hatch.  when you are really here and have landed your other branch, please lemme know so we can talk about the save button
[13:20] <hatch> gary_poster: interesting I would have assumed that the proper interaction with 1226905 would be that you need to toggle the switch off then click the configuration upload button
[13:20] <hatch> and sure thing landing right away
[13:21] <hatch> I fell asleep real early last night hah
[13:22] <gary_poster> hatch, yeah, the move to put the upload above the toggle was specifically to try and communicate that the switch only controlled the input fields, not the upload
[13:23] <hatch> ohh gotcha - I suppose that the inputs are removed when you upload a file which indicates that things have definitely changed
[13:24] <gary_poster> ISTR something like that.  checking
[13:30] <gary_poster> bac, did you see the images from luca this morning showing where to put import and export and what images to use?
[13:32] <gary_poster> hatch, yes inputs are removed.
[13:32] <bac> gary_poster: no
[13:32] <bac> gary_poster: i only saw his email about the deploy bundles buttons
[13:33] <gary_poster> bac https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/file/d/0B7XG_QBXNwY1MnVub19KTElmZ2M/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/file/d/0B7XG_QBXNwY1TkNsVVphUnpPVGM/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/file/d/0B7XG_QBXNwY1Ni1Ud0llelFzZFk/edit?usp=sharing
[13:33] <bac> perfect
[13:35] <hatch> jcastro: A guy I know is asking me about charms sharing information or having access to a nfs are there any docs/blogs about this process?
[13:35] <bac> oh you can barely see the little icons there...
[13:35] <gary_poster> benji, approved for...Oakland :-)
[13:35] <jcastro> hatch: yeah
[13:36] <jcastro> we have an nfs charm that does that
[13:36] <jcastro> so the units have like a common place to dump stuff across all units
[13:36] <jcastro> like say, wordpress assets for pictures, etc.
[13:36] <benji> gary_poster: thanks :)  Raleigh coming in hot.
[13:36] <gary_poster> heh
[13:37] <gary_poster> hatch approved swap
[13:37] <jcastro> hatch: http://manage.jujucharms.com/charms/precise/wordpress/hooks/nfs-relation-changed
[13:37] <jcastro> hatch: basically, it's all in the wordpress charm
[13:37] <jcastro> the mediawiki charm might have that too
[13:38] <hatch> jcastro: thanks! I'll pass this on
[13:39] <jcastro> hey
[13:39] <jcastro> also
[13:39] <jcastro> have him check out the glusterfs charm
[13:39] <gary_poster> jcastro, -head links on jujucharms now all redirect to get rid of -head.  please let us know of any related issues, but https://jujucharms.com/charms/precise/juju-gui-HEAD wfm, for instance.  lots of similar variations.  https://jujucharms.com/precise/juju-gui-HEAD also goes to https://jujucharms.com/precise/juju-gui/ for instance
[13:39] <jcastro> hatch: it does everything the NFS charm does but with a proper clustered FS.
[13:40] <jcastro> gary_poster: thanks for that! laura was just pinging me over the weekend that the links were busted
[13:41] <gary_poster> right.  should be good now.  sorry for the slow turn around, but I think we have the tools to do it quicker next time.  'course, hopefully there won't be a next time :-P
[13:41] <hatch> oh boy do we need fuzzy searching bad on the charmsearch :)
[13:41] <gary_poster> yeah
[13:41] <hatch> jcastro: thanks I'll add that to the list
[13:41] <gary_poster> hatch, benji has a card to investigate and estimate cost so we can schedule
[13:42] <hatch> awesome - I knew it had to be done, but I just tried to search for that charm and I had to type it pretty much perfectly for it to work
[13:42]  * hatch needs to dogfood this more :)
[13:43] <benji> gary_poster/hatch: I had an idea on that front: we already do prefix search for the autocomplete, so the infrastructure should be in place to do it
[13:44] <gary_poster> benji, ack.  if that gives us a quick improvement, then +1.  that said, I also think that n-tuple or whatever the name is for that index aggregation by character lengths is the longer term right way forward, as you and others said initially
[13:45] <benji> n-gram
[13:45] <benji> yeah, it will give better results in the long run
[13:53] <hatch> gary_poster: I'm just evaluating the different approaches for the ghost thing right now
[13:56] <gary_poster> hatch, I have a hack idea, which was my first one.  In sum: don't delete ghost inspectors, just hide them, and only delete them when the ghosts are deleted.  That seems to me to be the fastest solution for now.  To actually implement save to env--which your recent code would make much more reasonable IMO btw--then we'd need to switch to databinding.  but databinding feels a lot more annoying than I want to do now.  
[13:56] <gary_poster> I want to get this sucker released. :-)
[13:57] <hatch> yeah the fastest would be to change 'save' to 'cancel'
[13:58] <hatch> ok can chat now
[13:59] <gary_poster> hatch https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/40add188253e90b1322b17f14b7d66ea2ea6aeea
[14:07]  * benji finishes emailing reciepts.
[14:33] <hatch> gary_poster: functionally done - now to find the bugs which no doubt are there
[14:33] <gary_poster> hatch :-) cool
[14:50] <hatch> found em
[14:50]  * hatch grabs the bug spray
[14:51] <hatch> wouldn't you know it....it's checkbox code
[14:51]  * hatch points to rick_h_ and laughs
[14:51] <hatch> lol
[14:51] <hatch> 'oh it'll be easy, just....'
[14:51] <hatch> haha
[14:53] <jcastro> gary_poster: I just committed those 5 or so icons luca's team sent along, should make for some pretty updates.
[14:54] <gary_poster> jcastro, awesome thanks
[15:01] <hatch> gary_poster: so... this timebox is going to be blown out :/ labels use id's so all of the label interactions are broken because there are two inspectors on the page, so n inspectors all act on inspector #1 when interacting with labels
[15:01] <hatch> did not expect that one
[15:02] <gary_poster> hatch, ack.  Hey Luca, you have a sec to talk about Save button?  Actually hatch, could you explain situation to luca...who is not here. :-/
[15:03] <hatch> lol
[15:03] <hatch> I can email him?
[15:03] <gary_poster> hatch, how about the cancel button, and email to explain
[15:03] <hatch> I'll fire up another branch and impl that one
[15:04] <gary_poster> thanks hatch
[15:07] <rick_h_> hatch: what's broken now?
[15:08] <rick_h_> hatch: :P you said "I've already done that work, just copy my cool slider for the expose toggle"
[15:08] <hatch> hahaha
[15:09] <hatch> rick_h_: it wasn't actually your fault - I was just laughing because it was the checkbox that exposed it
[15:09] <rick_h_> hatch: yea, all good
[15:23] <bac> jujugui : suggestions for browser extensions for measuring pixels and placement?  chrome has one called MeasureIt but it is broken.
[15:24] <hatch> bac: I use skitch
[15:24] <hatch> but not available for Ubuntu :/
[15:24] <bac> hatch: osx?
[15:24] <hatch> yeah
[15:24] <bac> is it an extension?
[15:24] <hatch> nope it's a standalone app
[15:24] <hatch> so I use it to take a selection screenshot which tells me the dimensions
[15:24] <hatch> it's a hack but I couldn't find a good app like measureit
[15:25] <bac> hatch: i see.  i wish measureit was a good app.  doesn't do squat
[15:25] <rick_h_> bac: does the dev tools telling you the px not work?
[15:26] <bac> rick_h_: i don't understand what you're asking.
[15:26] <rick_h_> bac, sec
[15:26] <hatch> he means highlighting the elements I think
[15:27] <bac> rick_h_: you mean 'inspect element'?  i'm trying to measure placement so i don't know how to do that with those tools.
[15:27] <rick_h_> well I thoght it told you x/y position but now not seeing
[15:27] <bac> intra-element measurements
[15:27] <bac> no, inter-element
[15:28] <rick_h_> yea, ignore me. I was mistaken on what it could do
[15:29] <hatch> bac: just wing it ;)
[15:29] <rick_h_> bac: yea, I'd just end up doing a screen shot and measuring in that or gimp or something
[15:30] <bac> ok
[15:30] <hatch> but skitch does work really well
[15:30] <hatch> it's just windows/osx only
[15:30] <bac> hatch: i was hoping for something in place.
[15:30]  * bac avoids roundtrips
[15:31] <hatch> yeah - well if you find something let me know because I came up empty
[15:34] <benji> wow, I really don't get Windows 8 (but I do have IE 10 up)
[15:35] <hatch> benji: to shut it down, put the mouse to the upper right hand side of the window and then click on settings when the thing slides out
[15:35] <hatch> it's at the bottom of the settings panel (for some reason???)
[15:35] <benji> good to know
[15:35] <hatch> took me forever to find it
[15:38] <rick_h_> hatch: so I think the current CI failings are timeout issues. run-mocha as a 10min timeout set in it. Does that sound about right?
[15:38] <rick_h_> that's run-mocha.js
[15:38] <hatch> yeah it doesn't take 10minutes to run the gui tests
[15:39] <hatch> even on the slowest machine (mine) it only takes 3
[15:39] <rick_h_> hatch: yea, I know but the emails coming back are timeout with 639/etc seconds in there
[15:39] <rick_h_> hatch: the other option is I'm looking for something that tells sauce to die after 10m
[15:40] <hatch> hmm
[15:40] <hatch> well you COULD try and increase the timeout
[15:40] <rick_h_> hatch: but I don't know, none of hte run times are 10m, just the emails back are all in the 600s timing and "unable to complete test run"
[15:40] <hatch> I'm thinking it's hanging
[15:41] <rick_h_> hatch: yea, possible. It's only hanging in IE now though
[15:41] <hatch> well it can only get to IE because it's first
[15:41] <hatch> it fails fast
[15:42] <rick_h_> hatch: hmmm, ok
[15:43] <hatch> do the unit tests fail on your local machine?
[15:43] <bac> hatch: it looks like MeasureIt actually works as a safari extension
[15:44] <hatch> still doesn't help in Ubuntu haha
[15:49] <rick_h_> hatch: yea, nvm. It hangs locally as well. I forgot to try IE when I got back to the house today. 
[15:50] <Makyo> jujugui call in 10
[15:50] <Makyo> Kanban now
[15:58] <Makyo> jujugui call in 2
[16:01] <Makyo> gary_poster, starting w/o you
[16:01] <gary_poster> Makyo, +1 sorry trying to finish up :-)
[16:22] <gary_poster> oops benji coming back
[16:22] <benji> heh
[16:32]  * benji looks at his 28 open browser windows and sighs.
[16:32]  * hatch hopes you mean tabs
[16:32] <hatch> and if so.....amature
[16:32] <hatch> :P
[16:37] <benji> hatch: nope 28 windows, most with multiple tabs
[16:37] <hatch> yikes - I have about 40 tabs but only a single window
[16:37]  * benji goes back to browser pruning.
[16:38] <hatch> when I tries to use multiple windows it would never remember them on close
[17:10] <Makyo> OneTab's good for that </belated>
[17:11]  * bac reboots
[17:23] <hatch> Makyo: wow! Thanks!
[17:24]  * hatch wishes bzr commit would run a precommit hook of `make lint`
[17:24] <hatch> that's a lie
[17:24] <Makyo> maybe prepush hook.
[17:25] <hatch> yah I just hate the `bzr commit -m "forgot lint"` commits I need to make before pushing haha
[17:31] <hatch> sorry rick_h_ CI still bustied
[17:32] <rick_h_> hatch: yea, I but saw something, have a sec?
[17:32] <hatch> in a minute
[17:33] <hatch> jujugui lf a review and multi platform qa on https://codereview.appspot.com/13242060/ plz and thanks
[17:33] <hatch> rick_h_:  ok rdy
[17:33] <hatch> call whenever
[17:33] <benji> hatch: I guess I need to put my new IE10 powers to good use, so I'll take a look
[17:35] <hatch> thank yas!
[18:24] <rick_h_> hatch: passed, so yay that. Boo that it takes that long to run
[18:58] <hatch> Makyo: so this extension is pretty nice - but kind of wish clicking the button didn't auto hide :)
[18:58] <hatch> re OneTab
[18:59] <Makyo> Yeah, it's not excellent, but still a reasonable solution.  I use it during research, collecting tabs into windows, then reducing the window.
[19:02] <hatch> do you know if it saves cross instances?
[19:02] <hatch> say I shut it down and open it up again?
[19:12] <hatch> stepping out for lunch
[19:12] <hatch> bbl
[19:28] <rick_h_> success! build passed! 
[19:28]  * rick_h_ goes to hit the liquor cabinet now
[19:48] <gary_poster> Makyo do you think your qa is good for release qa?  hatch?  I'm starting to assemble a list of what we've done for the CHANGES file
[19:49] <Makyo> gary_poster, yes.  Like I said, the thing I found was minimal (U1 isn't uploading, I guess?) to the point of non-issue.
[19:49] <gary_poster> Makyo awesome thanks.
[19:49] <gary_poster> jujugui, I think we call this one 1.0 :-)
[19:49] <benji> +1
[19:49] <Makyo> \o/!
[19:49] <gary_poster> :-)
[19:52] <rick_h_> +1 on 1.0
[19:54] <BradCrittenden> gary_poster: export via icon is almost done.  to get the layout correct i added the import icon too.  it is not hooked up to anything.  leave it as tauntware or just comment out the HTML?
[19:54] <gary_poster> BradCrittenden, bac I mean, feature flag it!
[19:54] <bac> gary_poster: the whole thing
[19:55] <bac> import and export?
[19:55] <gary_poster> bac, uh.  well, actually.  either feature flag both or comment out the HTML, I say.
[19:56] <bac> gary_poster: ok.
[19:56] <gary_poster> bac, and I'm making a release, so wait on landing till tomorry, please.
[19:56] <gary_poster> or at least until I say I'm done :-)
[20:02] <Makyo> Oh, u1 crashed.
[20:03] <bac> cruise ship just went by.  they were practicing for talk like a pirate day
[20:03] <hatch> -1 on 1.0 :P It's not feature complete
[20:04] <rick_h_> hatch: bah, it's MVP :P
[20:04] <gary_poster> hatch, really?
[20:04] <gary_poster> hatch, when it is feature complete, we are out of a job :-)
[20:04] <hatch> lol no that's when it gets refactored
[20:04] <hatch> haha
[20:05] <hatch> It still feels incomplete - especially if you hit the notifications button
[20:05] <gary_poster> ok, yeah the notifications still are embarrassing, that's a point. :-/
[20:06]  * hatch drops mic and walks away
[20:06] <gary_poster> heh
[20:06] <hatch> lol
[20:10] <hatch> yeah after running through it I suppose it could be 1.0 but notifications really makes me think not
[20:10] <hatch> click 'view all notifications' when there are none and the whole thing goes bonkers
[20:15] <bac> just got busted by an old lady for not speaking spanish.  :(
[20:17] <hatch> did you tell her that it's ok because English is the international language of business?
[20:17] <hatch> :P
[20:18] <hatch> today is a good day....my truck insurance went down
[20:18] <hatch> it's still $1200/yr but less is better!
[20:20] <bac> hatch: i did not because she didn't speak the english.
[20:21] <hatch> ohh yes then very unfortunate
[20:21] <hatch> I'm not sure who it was who decided that English was the international language of business
[20:21] <hatch> maybe it was a sitcom and I'm full of it
[20:21] <hatch> lol
[20:22] <hatch> rick_h_: was the litle handle for the 'expanded' sidebar removed on purpose or is that a bug?
[20:24] <bac> hatch: this article flew by my feed this morning but i didn't get a chance to read it.  perhaps it addresses your question: http://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2013/09/language-diversity?fsrc=scn/fb/wl/bl/justspeakenglish
[20:27] <hatch> nope - just a fluf piece - but intersting none-the-less
[20:29] <gary_poster> jujugui, here's what I've got for CHANGES.  Comments/suggestions/recriminations?
[20:29] <gary_poster> - 0.10.0:
[20:29] <gary_poster>     - New inspector view for deploying and configuring services.
[20:29] <gary_poster>     - Inspector allows viewing details in full environment context.
[20:29] <gary_poster>     - Inspector fixes problem losing edits when environment changes.
[20:29] <gary_poster>     - Inspector shows edit conflicts and allows resolution.
[20:29] <gary_poster>     - Inspector fixes previously broken per-service charm view.
[20:29] <gary_poster>     - Worked around fragility in Keystone charm (LP bug 1214087).
[20:29] <_mup_> Bug #1214087: GUI fails to deploy keystone <juju-gui:Fix Committed by hatch> <keystone (Juju Charms Collection):New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1214087>
[20:29] <gary_poster>     - >
[20:29] <gary_poster>       Updated charm token (the token is the small charm visualization in
[20:29] <gary_poster>       browse and search) to show series and owner (or "Recommended") rather
[20:29] <gary_poster>       than summary.
[20:29] <gary_poster>     - Added missing support for removing units from services in Juju Core.
[20:29] <gary_poster>     - Added support for alternate Google Analytics keys.
[20:29] <gary_poster>     - >
[20:29] <gary_poster>       Remove filters from charm searches.  We will add them back when there is
[20:29] <gary_poster>       more to filter on.
[20:29] <gary_poster>     - >
[20:29] <gary_poster>       Inspector has feature-flagged support for upgrading to a new version of
[20:29] <gary_poster>       a charm.
[20:29] <gary_poster>     - >
[20:29] <gary_poster>       Added internal support for new charm deployer integration (bundle
[20:29] <gary_poster>       support).
[20:29] <gary_poster>     - >
[20:29] <gary_poster>       Added internal support for sandbox version of deployer integration
[20:29] <gary_poster>       (bundle support).
[20:29] <gary_poster>     - Added internal support for charmworld APIv3 (bundle support).
[20:29] <gary_poster>     - Added internal support for rendering visual bundle summaries.
[20:29] <gary_poster>     - Refactored to unify internal charm implementations.
[20:29] <gary_poster>     - Switch to using Go sandbox by default.
[20:29] <gary_poster>     - Performance and bug fixes.
[20:31] <hatch>  ./kick +b gary_poster "Channel flood"
[20:31] <hatch> :P
[20:31] <gary_poster> I Just made all of those sentences in the past case, fwiw, except for the "Inspector allows/shows/fixes/..." ones
[20:31] <gary_poster> :-P
[20:31] <gary_poster> bah
[20:32] <benji> gary_poster: I don't think the "- >" bits are neccesary for multi-line strings
[20:33] <gary_poster> benji, maybe.  IIRC, they are for the parser we use (as well as the one in my editor).  I've had to fix these up in the past in order for doc gen to work.
[20:33] <hatch> gary_poster: looks good - I may try and make the very first one a little more pronounced - maybe a little more detailed account as it's the most important?
[20:33] <benji> hmm, we must use a sucky parser :)
[20:34] <gary_poster> hatch, ack--tried to do that with the next four bullet points.  I could add...
[20:34] <gary_poster>   - Inspector is really cool
[20:34] <hatch> lol
[20:34] <gary_poster>   - Inspector looks really nice
[20:34] <gary_poster>   - Inspector rocks our world
[20:34] <gary_poster> but concrete suggestions welcome :-)
[20:35] <hatch> Yeah I don't have anything better :)
[20:36] <hatch> I was never very good at the 'fill your paper with fluff text to hit the line minimum' in school
[20:36] <gary_poster> lol
[20:36] <gary_poster> ok
[20:37] <gary_poster> I'm running with it.
[20:37]  * gary_poster likes our release checklist/process
[20:40] <hatch> gary_poster: would you like me to pick off one of the red tickets in inspector?
[20:41] <gary_poster> hatch, good question.  looking.
[20:44] <gary_poster> hatch, I deleted a bunch.  I actually think our "save" work (databinding to model in step 1, and implementing save with env annotations in step 2) is more interesting, but eh.  Do you have enough background to work on bundle model?  benji, are you doing that as part of your branch?
[20:45] <gary_poster> (hatch, I deleted because huw had done them)
[20:45] <benji> gary_poster: I may have gotten there eventually, but its not something I had immediate plans for.
[20:46] <hatch> I know nothing of bundles
[20:46] <gary_poster> benji, is that a pre-requisite for your current effort?  I would have guessed it to be so but I might well be wrong.
[20:46] <hatch> I should probably learn about them though
[20:47] <benji> gary_poster: it might be, but at the moment I'm trying to disentangle the charmness out of charm tokens
[20:48] <hatch> maybe charm tokens are too shared :)
[20:48] <gary_poster> hatch, ack, ok.  so, yeah, choose a red card, or a maintenance-high card, or the databinding-ghost-inspector model
[20:48] <gary_poster> hatch, if you want more direction or explanation, just ask, but if that's good enough direction for you it is good enough for me
[20:49] <hatch> yep that's good I'll find something
[20:49] <gary_poster> cool
[20:50] <hatch> Makyo: in your testing did you notice this? It should be fixed https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1220312
[20:50] <_mup_> Bug #1220312: The scale-up UX is broken in juju-core real envs (at least) <juju-gui:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1220312>
[20:50] <Makyo> hatch, No, let me check again, still have the env up.
[20:51] <Makyo> hatch, in the future, can you bring this up before we start?
[20:51] <gary_poster> hatch it was working before I thought
[20:51] <Makyo> hatch, our M-O currently seems to be *start release process* *have a giant crisis* *feel bad about ourselves* *not actually release* and I really, really want to stop it.
[20:51] <gary_poster> hatch, Makyo wfm on lxc juju core
[20:52] <hatch> Makyo: I'm just going through the cards and I was sure it was fixed
[20:52] <hatch> so I am confirming with you
[20:52] <Makyo> wfm on real env EC2
[20:52] <gary_poster> cool
[20:52] <hatch> ok closing
[20:52] <gary_poster> moving on, thanks
[20:52] <Makyo> hatch, Then let's add that to the very top of the list of things to do for release.
[20:52] <hatch> +1
[20:52] <gary_poster> +1
[20:53] <Makyo> I may have been raised by hippies, but really, work should feel good :)
[20:53] <hatch> rofl
[20:56] <rick_h_> hatch: what handle removed?
[20:57] <hatch> the little swirly thing
[20:57] <hatch> it's no longer on the details part of the sidebar
[20:57] <hatch> but it's on the sidebar
[20:57] <rick_h_> where is it gone? I show it in http://comingsoon.jujucharms.com/precise/liferay-1/ for instance
[20:57] <gary_poster> Makyo, fwiw, the daily exploratory qa is also an attempt to improve this.
[20:58] <hatch> rick_h_: woah odd, my branch doesn't have it
[20:58] <Makyo> gary_poster, Yeah, I think it's an excellent idea!
[20:58] <hatch> time to rebuild
[20:58] <hatch> hah
[20:58] <rick_h_> hatch: then yea, your branch broke it, don't commit that :P
[20:59] <hatch> haha
[20:59] <rick_h_> hatch: but yea, not intended to be gone that I know of
[21:01] <hatch> ok going to work on databinding the ghost inspector
[21:07] <gary_poster> we shouldn't show constraints for subordinates
[21:08] <hatch> true
[21:08] <gary_poster> or the units controls
[21:08] <gary_poster> neither of those are showstoppers, but for future
[21:20] <gary_poster> jujugui, eagle has landed: I've pushed out 0.10.0.  Making release messages on blog and mailing list now.  We'll put it up on jujucharms tomorrow morning.
[21:20] <bcsaller> cheers
[21:23] <bac> yay
[21:27] <hatch> yussss
[21:27]  * hatch fires up the blog
[21:52] <hatch> 0.10.0 blogpost up http://fromanegg.com/
[21:58] <Makyo> Similar planned for our WP blog?
[21:58] <Makyo> Oh, oops, guess gary_poster said that.
[21:58]  * Makyo returns from dogwalk, on that note :)
[21:59] <Makyo> Will this be up somewhere we can point people?  Just comingsoon?
[21:59] <hatch> yeah I figured he was going that one
[22:00] <Makyo> And can we say last step before 1.0?
[22:01] <hatch> depends, notifications may take some time to get out
[22:01] <hatch> that's my only real objection to 1.0
[22:02] <gary_poster> Makyo, plans to be up on jujucharms.com tomorrow
[22:02] <Makyo> hatch, Mine too.  Can we think of an intermediate step to get there?  I think it'd be good to have out before SF.  Maybe get rid of the 'view all' link and just show all with scrolling?
[22:02] <Makyo> gary_poster, cool, thanks.
[22:02] <hatch> Makyo: so it would only have the dropdown?
[22:03] <Makyo> hatch, yes. That shows most everything, right?
[22:03] <Makyo> (only version I have up now is real env,  no notifications)
[22:03] <hatch> well when you click on a notification it takes you to the old inspector
[22:03] <hatch> so if we removed the links
[22:03] <hatch> then it's sort of a half-assed fix haha
[22:04] <Makyo> hatch, Yes, of course.  I mean a working version, not something halfway :)
[22:04] <Makyo> hatch, we won't have Luca until after SF.  This is my concern.  A major version would feel like a win.
[22:04] <hatch> ahh, right, and I guess the notification stuff was still a prototype
[22:04] <Makyo> I'm asking: what can we do to buy a quick win.
[22:04] <Makyo> hatch, yes, I have a task to find all notification types for Luca.
[22:05] <gary_poster> Makyo, intermediate step was mission I gave luca at sprint.  What he gave us was more involved than I had hoped.  We can go back to him and see if we can come up with a compromise.  I have a hunch that doing anything not half-assed will take more time than we expect.  Also, we will have luca again starting in 1.5 weeks.
[22:05] <Makyo> gary_poster, Oh? Thought it was until Oct 20.  Maybe nvm then :)
[22:05] <hatch> personally i'd like to see notifications landing be 1.0
[22:07] <gary_poster> If my hunch is correct, I'd be inclined to try and work in the direction that luca gave us, and have an incremental step be in that direction.  That is, the incremental step would be a first cut of the new design, rather than a hack of the existing bits
[22:07] <gary_poster> I need to run
[22:07] <gary_poster> sent email
[22:07] <gary_poster> made blog post
[22:07] <hatch> have a good one
[22:09] <Makyo> That's fair, hatch. I'm just trying to think of publicly visible changes that are of immediate use to our users, and I think both bundles and notifications fit nicely, but we're poised to ignore one.
[22:11] <hatch> well we need some type of 'non-broken' notifications story for 1.0 regardless of whatever else comes down the pipe at the same time
[22:11] <Makyo> I think we're agreeing loudly.
[22:11] <hatch> right haha
[22:11] <Makyo> Just want to know the first step to take.
[22:11] <hatch> I think gary_poster was onto the right thing though that we work towards the prototype direction instead of trying to make the current stuff work
[22:12] <hatch> we have what....5 weeks untill SF?
[22:12] <hatch> that should be enough for a rough cut
[22:12] <hatch> maybe....lol
[22:12] <Makyo> That's fair.  I'm already hunting notifications, and my other stuff relies on Luca too.  Think I should start?
[22:14] <hatch> I'd like to discuss a refactor of the notifications api but I'm not at a point where I'm convincing yet :)
[22:14] <Makyo> hatch, I'm game, lmk if you want to
[22:16] <hatch> can I get back to you tomorrow? I need to come up with some real benefits besides 'personal preference' :D
[22:17] <Makyo> Haha, fair :) I think it's worth it to keep moving forward with this, they've so obviously been stagnant since before inspector
[22:17] <hatch> haha yes, yes they have
[22:23]  * hatch is trying a new colourscheme - looks like I won't be able to find any code for a few days ;)
[23:08] <huwshimi> Morning
[23:10] <hatch> mornin huwshimi
[23:10] <hatch> 0.10.0 was released
[23:11] <huwshimi> :D
[23:12] <gary_poster> Makyo, hatch, let's keep focused on working together.  We finish up upgrade charm; then we all move to bundles next; then quickstart; then ice cream.  These are the things we have agreed to deliver.  1.0 and notifications I want to deliver, but they are not the priority.  In my mind, they are even beneath the priority of improving CI and our testing tools.  I'm hoping we will have time for them, but I hope we can al
[23:12] <gary_poster> l be happy keeping focus on the plan we have agreed on.
[23:12] <Makyo> Sure.  
[23:13] <hatch> sure that sounds good
[23:13] <hatch> I thought ice cream was sooner
[23:13] <hatch> I must have missed the important part of that convo :)
[23:13] <Makyo> Upgrade charm's off until luca's back anyway.  Where should I be focusing?
[23:14] <hatch> gary_poster: the YUI community manager reached out to me to see if I would be interested in writing a blog post for yuiblog about how we used YUI - any objection?
[23:14] <gary_poster> Makyo, Luca gave us the necessary details for upgrade charm in Inspector 13 this week, didn't he?
[23:14] <gary_poster> hatch, go for it
[23:15] <hatch> will do!
[23:16] <Makyo> ah, okay.
[23:16] <Makyo> Slipped under the radar.
[23:17] <Makyo> Still no say on what happens with changing config options, but I guess we just delete them or whatever.
[23:18] <gary_poster> Makyo, I think he hoped that the new form validation bits would work.  They are not quite what you need IIUC but I bet you could identify and propose a way to coordinate them
[23:18] <Makyo> gary_poster, Not lucid right now, ping me about it tomorrow.
[23:18] <hatch> oh gary_poster I also came across an issue which will require some refactoring of the ghost config submission system - right now we only store 'changed' values in the ghost settings (as per previous bug) so we can't databind on nothing....which means this 'changed values' thing will need to be done as a parsing step on deploy
[23:18] <gary_poster> Makyo, cool, will do.  ttyl
[23:20] <gary_poster> hatch, we have a service to use--it is what the environment is using
[23:20] <gary_poster> hatch, is that not sufficient
[23:20] <hatch> right, but it's 'options' property is undefined
[23:20] <hatch> and it's only changed when the user alters a setting
[23:21] <gary_poster> hatch but we can set options to {} and we are good to go, yeah?
[23:21] <gary_poster> as an initialization step
[23:21] <hatch> that was my thought, but it didn't work because the databinding then cleared it out
[23:21] <hatch> that's as far as I got to maybe in the am I'll come up with something better
[23:22] <gary_poster> ok cool hatch.  this feels like there's a good answer in there waiting to fall out :-)
[23:22] <hatch> yeah probably a few hours off the computer will help it loose haha
[23:23] <gary_poster> cool
[23:23] <gary_poster> need to run.  thanks all!  congrats jujugui on a great 0.10.0!
[23:23] <hatch> w00t w00t
[23:23] <hatch> cya
[23:23] <huwshimi> gary_poster: Night
[23:24] <gary_poster> have a great day huwshimi--oh I can't be around tomorrow evening.  I'll say hi a little later today, if I can?
[23:24] <huwshimi> gary_poster: Sure!
[23:24] <gary_poster> cool
[23:24] <gary_poster> ttyl
[23:57] <bac> hey huwshimi, just saying hello...
[23:57] <huwshimi> bac: Hello!