[00:35] <andrzejr> ali1234, that you can trigger that infinite event loop if you add two sound-indicators to the panel (in two separate indicator plugins)
[00:35] <andrzejr> seems not related to virtualbox - single indicator works fine here
[00:37] <ali1234> hmm yes i see it
[00:37] <ali1234> ah
[00:38] <ali1234> i bet i know what this is
[00:38] <ali1234> like i mentioned before, in unity the notifications are not shown if you change the volume using mouse wheel
[00:38] <ali1234> if you have two sound indicators then they have to stay in sync
[00:39] <ali1234> to you update one, it sends the notification, and then the other one syncs and sends it's own notification
[00:39] <ali1234> and so the synchronization coode is bouncing back and forth between them
[00:39] <ali1234> the loop isn't actually infinite
[00:39] <ali1234> but it does spam lots of notifications
[00:39] <ali1234> this bug probably affects unity too but you don't see it because the notifications aren't shown
[00:40] <ali1234> in any case, i bet it's something like that
[00:42] <ali1234> the notification crash is probably caused just by a random unrelated bug in the notifyd
[00:42] <ali1234> sometimes it crashes randomly so spamming lots of events probablyjust makes that happen faster
[00:54] <micahg> skellat: bluesabre: I don't think the keyboard shortcuts needs an FFe and UIF and doc string freeze are thursday, I plan on just uploading assuming I tonightfind the time 
[01:08] <andrzejr> ali1234, at least I could find the place where it crashes
[01:11] <ali1234> spamming notifications does some... interesting things
[01:14] <ali1234> seems to be related to whether you have the mouse over a notification
[01:27] <andrzejr> ali1234, https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10356
[01:28] <ali1234> hmm... note that the volume notification doesn't actually create multiple bubbles like normal messages
[01:28] <ali1234> so it's actually updating an existing bubble
[01:28] <ali1234> or something
[01:28] <ali1234> i do wonder how it does that
[01:30] <ali1234> hmm so this is a race condition where the update event starts happening and then the window stops existing before it completes?
[01:35] <andrzejr> ali1234, yes, it looks like that. But adding proper synchronization may be difficult if feasible. Checking the arguments should be enough.
[01:36] <andrzejr> that event flooding is IMHO caused by the indicator(s), that's where it should be fixed.
[01:37] <andrzejr> BTW, can't test it now but does this also happen with gtk2 indicator-plugin?
[01:37] <andrzejr> 'night
[01:38] <ali1234> gtk2 indicator plugin is fully 100% broken...
[03:11] <bluesabre> micahg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1226921
[03:12] <bluesabre> let me know if you need anything else
[03:12] <bluesabre> heading to bed, be back early in the morning
[03:14] <bluesabre> knome, ochosi, fyi ^
[06:55] <elfy> ochosi ali1234 - trying to do this again - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Saucy/Gtk3Indicators - asking for garcon-gtk2-1; the only garcon packages I can find I have installed 
[06:57] <ochosi> elfy: where are you now?
[06:57] <ochosi> i mean where in the process
[06:58] <ochosi> maybe we should add numbers to the steps, so it's easier to communicate
[06:58] <elfy>  ./autogen.sh --enable-gtk3 --prefix=/usr in xfce4-panel
[06:58] <ochosi> you're on saucy, right?
[06:58] <elfy> yep - just editing the wiki :)
[06:58] <ochosi> (with all updates installed)
[06:59] <elfy> yep
[06:59] <elfy> including the lightdm one 
[07:00] <ochosi> you did install the build-dep for the panel, right?
[07:01] <elfy> yep - followed the steps :)
[07:02] <ochosi> and you switched to the wrapper3 branch successfully?
[07:02] <ochosi> after git cloning
[07:02] <elfy> oh - didn't cd to there 
[07:03] <ochosi> :)
[07:04] <elfy> was following the wiki :)
[07:04] <elfy> run out of time now - will look again later - and also look at numbering it :)
[07:18] <ochosi> elfy: ok, added the numbering to the steps
[07:19] <elfy> ok
[07:20] <elfy> I'll look at it again when I'm back from work - I assume there should be a cd /wrapper in step 2 then
[07:20] <elfy> anyway - later :)
[07:20] <ochosi> no
[07:21] <ochosi> you don't switch to a git branch like that
[07:21] <ochosi> if you're in the right dir, the "git checkout..." switches to the branch
[07:21] <elfy> ok
[07:39] <elfy> ochosi: all done - really off now - cya later :)
[07:39] <ochosi> so it worked?
[07:39] <ochosi> ok, seeya :)
[09:17] <knome> 
[09:17] <knome> hum
[09:18] <Noskcaj>  
[09:19] <bluesabre>  
[09:26] <Noskcaj> mr_pouit, Do you think it would be worth merging xfce4-systemload-plugin for saucy?
[10:22] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/saucy/topic-s-flavor-xubuntu.png
[10:22] <knome> with real baseline
[10:24] <bluesabre> woot
[10:33] <ochosi> btw, why is the ubqiquity bug in status.ubuntu shown twice?
[10:34] <knome> two different packages are affected?
[10:35] <ochosi> it has been added to 100papercuts
[10:35] <knome> ubiquity and lubuntu-artwork (which is probably invalid)
[10:35] <knome> that's not the reason, but cool :)
[10:36] <knome> marked it as invalid for lubuntu-artwork, because it really isn't an -artwork bug
[10:37] <ochosi> would be interesting to know whether it really affects lubuntu/openbox too
[10:38] <knome> that
[10:38] <knome> meh
[10:38] <knome> that's been confirmed for lubuntu
[10:38] <knome> but it still ain't an -artwork bug :)
[10:38] <ochosi> ok, good to know
[10:38] <ochosi> i'll see whether my patch-suggestion in the bugreport actually works
[10:38] <knome> (well at least judging from the bug)
[10:39] <ochosi> oh noes, python
[10:39] <knome> haha
[10:39] <knome> :)
[10:39] <ochosi>  /o\
[10:39] <knome> lderan likes python
[10:39] <knome> just saying...
[10:39] <lderan> python?
[10:40] <lderan> yes i do
[10:40] <lderan> ochosi: if you need any help let me know :D
[10:41] <knome> lderan, bug 1177116
[10:41] <ochosi> guess i need to find out how to do this in python: http://www.gtk.org/api/2.6/gtk/GtkWindow.html#gtk-window-set-type-hint
[10:42] <bluesabre> super easy in python
[10:42] <bluesabre> window.set_type_hint
[10:42] <ochosi> yeah, i've found that now
[10:42] <knome> too hard
[10:42] <knome> :>
[10:42] <ochosi> just have to learn to read the code of ubiquity
[10:43] <bluesabre> but this is only a problem with xfwm, so that type hint is probably already set
[10:43] <knome> what about lubuntu?
[10:44] <knome> the same bug appears there
[10:44] <knome> maybe i should run lubuntu on a vbox once
[10:44] <bluesabre> ah, didn't know they were affected
[10:44] <ochosi> bluesabre: it's only set in keyboard_query.py
[10:45] <bluesabre> cool, be nice to see that buglet fixed then
[10:45] <ochosi> also have to find a way to test ubiquity
[10:45] <bluesabre> isnt there a test mode that we use to see the slideshow?
[10:46] <knome> yep... but that doesn't test ubiquity the software
[10:46] <knome> it only tests the slideshow itself
[10:46] <bluesabre> ah
[10:46] <bluesabre> Unit193 could probably give a hint as to how to roll a custom iso
[10:46] <knome> yep
[10:46] <knome> he's done that a few times altogether
[10:47] <knome> downloading the lubuntu ISO just for fun
[10:47] <knome> let's see what it has eaten.
[10:48] <bluesabre> probably some fruits, veggies, and openboxes
[10:48] <knome> doesn't it use lxde?
[10:48] <bluesabre> yup
[10:48] <knome> :P
[10:48] <bluesabre> lxde is not a complete de though, i think it uses openbox for the wm
[10:48] <knome> ok
[10:48] <knome> don't know enough of that
[10:49] <bluesabre> back from my early days of distro hopping, when I determined lubuntu was ugly and stuck with xubuntu :)
[10:49] <knome> woo
[10:51] <lderan> \o/
[10:51]  * ochosi is happy that everyone can now see how important good artwork is
[10:51] <knome> "at least we did something right" ;)
[10:53] <ochosi> it seems that ubiquity sets its window-type to dialog
[10:53] <knome> ok, i need to prepare a poster for printing
[10:54] <knome> will be more or less idle for a moment
[10:54] <ochosi> and as you can see here, xfwm4 always shows a maximize button in dialogs: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-09182013-125423pm.php
[10:55] <ochosi> (i mean a non-functional one!)
[10:55] <knome> heh
[10:55] <ochosi> so it's actually a bug in xfwm4
[10:56] <bluesabre> yay
[10:57] <ochosi> as well as i know xfwm4, i'm pretty sure it's a design decision, not a bug
[10:57] <ochosi> not sure why it was taken that way though
[10:59] <bluesabre> seems like a flaw
[11:00] <bluesabre> want to bug olivier about it, that seems pretty dumb
[11:00] <knome> any other window type that would do?
[11:00] <bluesabre> any other window type, maximize would only appear if resizing/maximizing were enabled on that window
[11:01] <bluesabre> or should
[11:01] <bluesabre> I'll throw together a basic window where those are the case and see what xfwm does
[11:01] <ochosi> olivier hasn't been around in ages
[11:02] <ochosi> i think if you wanna fix this, we have to write the patch ourselves and propose it to nick
[11:02] <bluesabre> shouldn't be too hard I would hope
[11:02] <bluesabre> probably find the relevant code in metacity
[11:02] <bluesabre> brb
[11:26] <bluesabre> back
[11:27] <bluesabre> everyone who's around, come cheer for me in #xubuntu-devel in ~30ish minutes to get my ubuntu-membership :)
[11:28] <bluesabre> woops
[11:28] <bluesabre> I mean #ubuntu-meeting
[11:28] <bluesabre> ;)
[11:28] <knome> lol :)
[11:29]  * lderan prepares to cheer
[11:29] <lderan> woo \o/
[11:29] <bluesabre> :D
[12:22] <elfy> ochosi: just a quick point - I assume that at some point this new gtk3 stuff won't look out of place - ie it follows the rest of the panel style ? - http://imagebin.org/271259
[12:24] <ochosi> elfy: yes, the git-version of greybird already carries a fix for that
[12:24] <ochosi> elfy: all other themes would be patched accordingly
[12:24] <elfy> ok - just checking :)
[12:28] <bluesabre> theres a shimmerproject daily ppa: https://launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/+archive/daily
[12:31] <ochosi> true that :)
[12:35] <elfy> not that concerned - I'll wait for patches to come through properly
[12:35] <bluesabre> :)
[12:36] <ochosi> elfy: nice to see you got the gtk3 indicators working thouh
[12:36] <ochosi> gh
[12:36] <elfy> when I installed it all this morning from git - the sound thingy was a big fail ... 
[12:36] <elfy> then I remembered to go and unfix the services and it'd fine now :p
[12:36] <elfy> #Exec=/usr/lib/indicator-sound-gtk2/indicator-sound-service
[12:38] <ochosi> :)
[12:39] <jjfrv8> knome, I'm pulling skellat's merge now. I hope to have another MP for you by 1600 today and that should be the final one.
[12:39] <knome> jjfrv8, cool, thanks
[12:53] <knome> there we go, bluesabre is now a ubuntu member
[12:54]  * bluesabre dances
[12:54] <bluesabre> now to work towards xubuntu-developer-membership
[12:55] <knome> yep
[12:58] <bluesabre> gotta go start working now, bbl
[12:59] <knome> have fun
[12:59] <knome> at some point, could somebody have a stab at making sure the documentation is nearly ready for a new upload (we still need to update some bits)
[12:59] <knome> and be prepared for filing a sponsorship queue bug
[13:04] <knome> ok, i'm off to to shopping groceries
[13:04] <knome> bbl
[13:04] <lderan> cheerio
[14:59] <jjfrv8> knome, MP is up there and ready for you. I don't know why it's complaining about the two text conflicts. I can't find the problem when I look at the files with Meld.
[15:01] <jjfrv8> knome, also, I don't know if I handled lp bug 1225782 the way you wanted. I took a stab at it but tell me if I'm off base.
[15:03] <knome> jjfrv8, i'll check them out. cheers :)
[15:21]  * ochosi pokes around again wrt logout-delay
[15:50] <ochosi> for all those concerned with the logout-delay bug, feel free to confirm here: bug #1227212
[15:51] <ochosi> i've talked to slangasek about this issue and this is the only thing we could come up with for now (a bugreport)
[15:51] <knome> what was steve's reply/take on it?
[15:51] <ochosi> that he isn't sure either what could be causing this
[15:52] <ochosi> and that for debugging it, the session would have to be looked at "from the outside" while shutting down
[15:52] <ochosi> but he kinda confirmed my idea that something isn't shutting down properly
[15:52] <ochosi> which is why it's reported against upstart
[15:52] <ochosi> might be logind, might be something else
[15:52] <knome> so what would be "from the outside"?
[15:53] <ochosi> slangasek$ debugging this probably involves either taking snapshots of the process state from  outside the login session and seeing what's running when, or putting debug "echo"s  in each of the upstart jobs
[15:53] <ochosi> both is kinda outa my league for now
[15:53] <ochosi> so i hope more able people take to it
[15:53] <knome> maybe cjwatson could be able to help?
[15:54] <ochosi> maybe, i dunno him
[15:54] <knome> just join -release and ask
[15:54] <ochosi> i was just pointed to slangasek by robert_ancell
[15:54] <knome> he was around 1mins earlier
[15:54] <ochosi> i'm already in release
[15:54] <knome> ok, then just ask there
[15:54] <ochosi> what, i'm not
[15:54] <knome> heh
[15:54] <ochosi> just -desktop and -devel
[15:54] <ochosi> and -meeting
[15:54] <knome> bah :)
[15:54] <ochosi> meh, too many chans
[15:54] <knome> is -desktop useful at all?
[15:55] <knome> major things seem to hit -release anyway
[15:55] <ochosi> yeah, it's not bad
[15:55] <knome> heh, i wasn't thinking of pinging, just telling your issue and shouting "anyone?"
[15:55] <knome> :D
[15:56] <knome> but that works, i guess...
[15:56] <ochosi> well, you pointed me to him ;)
[15:56] <ochosi> thing is, i've tried that a few times, just saying stuff
[15:56] <ochosi> pinging is much more effective
[15:56] <knome> (not sure if he's the right person to ask either, but i guess he could know about that)
[15:56] <ochosi> if you know who to ping
[15:56] <knome> sure, if you know the right-right person
[15:56] <knome> exactly
[15:56] <ochosi> well making more people that could be right aware is also not a bad idea
[15:57] <knome> can't disagree
[16:02] <ochosi> ok, i've pinged enough buntu-devs for today
[16:02] <knome> ha
[16:02] <knome> never enough ;)
[16:03] <knome> i'm off
[16:03] <knome> bbl today
[16:03] <jjfrv8> knome, i'll be afk until around 2100, in case you need me to fix anything.
[16:03] <knome> jjfrv8, right
[16:03] <knome> i'll be here for the moment i'll check those
[16:03] <knome> thanks for reminding
[16:03] <jjfrv8> cya
[16:04] <knome> but yeah, i'll be in touch (or i'll just fix them)
[16:04] <knome> have fun!
[16:07] <knome> jjfrv8, all looks good. i'll go through the merging now
[16:14] <knome> jjfrv8, merged/pushed
[17:35] <elfy> ochosi: thanks for the long looooooooooooooogoooooooooout bug - me too'd it 
[17:42] <brainwash> almost unbelievable, that nobody was able to properly debug this logout delay
[17:43] <brainwash> where are the people with the magical debugging skills? :)
[17:55]  * lderan hides
[17:59] <ali1234> it doesn't affect me, or else i would try
[18:01] <skellat> knome: LP Bug #122725
[18:01] <skellat> Wrong bug
[18:01] <skellat> knome: LP Bug #1227275
[18:03] <micahg> sorry, I'm rushing to finish some stuff, I don't think I'll get to that today
[18:05] <micahg> if it misses tomorrow, just let the translations team know about it and I'll upload over the weekend
[18:06] <micahg> ochosi: I'm sorry, I'll get your thing in for beta 2 (I assume our docs already reflect the proper gmb usage if any)?
[18:53] <ochosi> micahg: yeah, no new functionality, just bugfix, so it's fine
[18:53] <ochosi> ali1234: surprising, so far it affected pretty much anyone
[18:54] <ochosi> brainwash: ppl are busy with mobile and mir
[18:55] <brainwash> and unity 8.. or "does mobile and mir" already include unity 8? :)
[18:55] <brainwash> misplaced "
[19:02] <ali1234> ochosi: bootchart might help
[19:03] <ochosi> thought that was only to chart the boot-process?
[19:03] <ochosi> does it also chart the session stuff?
[19:03] <knome> micahg, i'm asking what's happening with ubuntu docs, let's see if somebody could handle our docs upload as well
[19:03] <ali1234> ochosi: it logs everything up until "bootchart-stop is run"
[19:03] <ali1234> i'll have a look at exactly how it works
[19:04] <ochosi> is that something you have to run manually? i'd have expected it stops as soon as the session is loaded
[19:04] <ali1234> normally it runs automatically
[19:04] <ochosi> btw, are you on saucy with all updates?
[19:04] <ali1234> but you can always disable it
[19:04] <micahg> knome: the main issue with the docs is doc string freeze, so if you can get someone to upload, great, otherwise, just ask them if they mind the upload happening over the weekend
[19:05] <knome> micahg, yes, i know
[19:05] <ochosi> ali1234: so logout is super-fast for (as in: normal-fast, ~1sec)
[19:05] <ali1234> 1 second? no, i've never seen ubuntu log out that fast in 5 years
[19:05] <ochosi> ali1234: i missed a "you" there. my connection is shaky again :/
[19:05] <ali1234> it takes about 10 seconds
[19:05] <ochosi> xubuntu always used to logout really fast
[19:05] <ochosi> yeah, that's the bug then
[19:05] <ali1234> but it's always taken 10 seconds...
[19:06] <ochosi> not here
[19:06] <ochosi> never took 10secs with the session slowly deconstructing itself
[19:06] <ali1234> what's that?
[19:06] <ochosi> (first the panel, then the wallpaper, then the compositor, then plank)
[19:06] <ali1234> i just get a black screen for 10 seconds
[19:06] <brainwash> yep, used to be almost instant
[19:07] <ochosi> i can really see things disappearing bit by bit
[19:07] <ali1234> press logout -> instant black screen -> 10 seconds -> login menu
[19:07] <knome> bkerensa will get our docs stuff uploaded
[19:07] <ochosi> cool
[19:07] <ochosi> nice knome 
[19:07] <ochosi> that's already the second pkg today that someone else uploads for us
[19:08] <knome> yep
[19:08] <knome> are there others we need uploaded?
[19:08] <knome> :P
[19:08] <ochosi> well gmusicbrowser, but it's not "ready" (as in: debdiff ready)
[19:08] <brainwash> ochosi: did you notice that xfce4-indicator-plugin and occasionally nm-applet are triggering kernel traps?
[19:08] <ochosi> it shouldn't be hard though
[19:08] <knome> is that something you could do?
[19:09] <ochosi> i'm not sure, i've never done it before and i fear i might have to do other stuff tonight (upgrade mediawiki installation etc)
[19:09] <brainwash> ochosi: on shutdown I mean, and/or logout
[19:09] <ochosi> ppl who've done packaging before should be able to
[19:09] <knome> like bluesabre you mean?
[19:10] <ochosi> brainwash: no, never noticed, but i don't use that version of the indicator-plugin anymore, i use the gtk3 version
[19:10] <ochosi> knome: or like Unit193 or Noskcaj
[19:10] <brainwash> ochosi: feeling so outdated now
[19:10] <ochosi> hehe, sorry ;)
[19:10] <Unit193> ochosi: I didn't do it!
[19:11] <ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i think you'd be *the man* to do some packaging for your favorite software! 
[19:11] <knome> hehe
[19:11] <ali1234> bootchart is broken, great
[19:12] <ochosi> hmpf
[19:12] <ochosi> well there goes that
[19:12] <knome> bootchart? that ain't essential though
[19:13] <brainwash> oh great, bug #1226544
[19:14] <brainwash> just wanted to do some testing :)
[19:17] <Unit193> ochosi: I did a quick job at it the day before yesterday, but libxfce4ui wasn't playing nice so I nuked everything. ;P
[19:18] <ochosi> Unit193: wait, you're referring to the gtk3 indicators?
[19:18] <Unit193> ochosi: Technically yes, but actually the indicator plugin.
[19:19] <ochosi> Unit193: well i was hoping you could do some packaging for gmusicbrowser :}
[19:19] <Unit193> Hah.
[19:19] <ochosi> yeah, i know, right? :)
[19:19] <ochosi> it'd be simple, just create a debdiff from a tiny patch
[19:20] <ochosi> then knome (with his amazing connections) might get it uploaded
[19:20] <ochosi> and micahg would have one thing less on his plate
[19:24] <ochosi> Unit193: your silence is to be taken as a "yes"?
[19:25] <Unit193> Ah, slightly distracted, and no idea what's going on with gmb.
[19:28] <ochosi> Unit193: it's this bug: #1223808
[19:28] <ochosi> basically add a line to the gmbrc.default file and then replace the existing albuminfo.pm with the one from upstream git and add that to the changelog (i assume)
[19:28] <ochosi> and debdiffing
[19:28] <ochosi> lotsa things i don't really know much about
[19:29] <ali1234> i think i've got bootchart working
[19:31] <Unit193> Hrm.
[19:33] <ochosi> ali1234: but does it do what we want it to?
[19:33] <ali1234> yeah
[19:33] <ali1234> you can increase the delay before it stops
[19:33] <ali1234> edit /etc/init/bootchart.conf
[19:36] <ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/al-x10-saucy-20130918-2.png
[19:36] <ali1234> it looks like the culprit is.... xscreensaver
[19:38] <ochosi> woot?
[19:38] <brainwash> that wouldn't explain the delay on my system, I removed xscreensaver
[19:39] <ali1234> or gnome-keyring-d
[19:39] <ochosi> but we're the only ones using xscreensaver
[19:40] <ali1234> i'll start ripping out packages and see what happens
[19:44] <ochosi> ali1234: cool, thanks a lot!
[19:47] <elfy> ochosi: "(first the panel, then the wallpaper, then the compositor, then plank)" "i can really see things disappearing bit by bit"
[19:47] <elfy> I've seen that since I started using Xubuntu 11.04 ish time 
[19:47] <ochosi> right, but i haven't
[19:47] <ochosi> i have maybe not the fastest cpu, but an ssd and enough ram
[19:47] <elfy> didn't realise that was what you were saying the other day
[19:47] <ochosi> so things are usually really snappy
[19:47] <ochosi> well it never took that long to logout
[19:48] <ochosi> even if this kind of deconstruction happened, i didn't see it because it was happening very quickly
[19:49] <elfy> ochosi: you 'might' remember me saying a cycle or two ago that everything looked a bit win95ish when I logged out - this is that 
[19:49] <ali1234> that's due to the setting daemon closing before other things
[19:49] <ali1234> makes the theme go to default, which looks like win95
[19:50] <ochosi> yup
[19:50] <ali1234> that used to be a bug on gnome too
[19:50] <elfy> then it's the same now as it ever has been here :)
[19:50] <ochosi> a more controlled session shutdown would be nice
[19:50] <ochosi> elfy: so it was always that slow?
[19:50] <brainwash> ochosi: uhm, the restart entry is still missing after the first logout
[19:50] <elfy> ochosi: more or less, hard to be exact 
[19:51] <ochosi> brainwash: that's always missing, it seems to be a bug in lightdm
[19:51] <ochosi> brainwash: haven't had time to take care of that yet
[19:51] <brainwash> but not after booting the pc
[19:51] <elfy> ochosi: but it's never been particularly snappy for me here - shutdown is similar for me here
[19:51] <ochosi> elfy: shutdown and reboot are really snappy, as they used to be (at least as far as closing the session goes)
[19:52] <elfy> Intel(R) Pentium(R) CPU G870 @ 3.10GHz / 4Gb RAM
[19:52] <brainwash> ochosi: and while testing logout, could you please right click the password input field?
[19:52] <ochosi> i immediately get thrown at a VT
[19:52] <ochosi> brainwash: hummyeah, we have to disable that in the UI
[19:52] <ochosi> brainwash: probably won't happen in 13.10, unless someone does another bugfix upload
[19:53] <brainwash> oh, because it's visually broken or for some other reason?
[19:53] <ochosi> brainwash: could you report a bug about it and subscribe bluesabre and me to it?
[19:53] <ochosi> brainwash: well it's really not needed there
[19:53] <ochosi> against lightdm-gtk-greeter
[19:53] <brainwash> ok, I'll create a report later
[19:53] <brainwash> yes
[19:53] <ochosi> ty
[19:54] <brainwash> and should I report the missing restart entry too? 
[19:55] <brainwash> oh wait, maybe it's still missing because I haven't restarted lightdm after the greeter update yet
[19:57] <ochosi> no, it's a known issue too
[19:57] <ochosi> the missing restart entry i mean
[19:57] <ochosi> i reported it yesterday or a few days ago
[19:57] <brainwash> but it goes missing after the first logout
[19:57] <ochosi> yeah
[19:58] <brainwash> ok :)
[19:58] <elfy> restart entry missing where?
[19:58] <ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/al-x10-saucy-20130918-3.png goota be gnome-keyring
[19:59] <ochosi> elfy: in the menu of the greeter
[19:59] <brainwash> elfy: when clicking the shutdown indicator displayed by lightdm-gtk-greeter
[19:59] <elfy> aah ok 
 brainwash: well it's really not needed there
[20:00] <elfy> I'd disagree with that - I wanted it earlier this evening :)
[20:01] <elfy> unless that's something else
[20:01] <brainwash> the context menu for the password input field?
[20:01] <elfy> I just woke up - reading backlog or trying to
[20:01] <elfy> brainwash: obviously something else then :)
[20:01] <brainwash> the restart entry is needed
[20:02] <brainwash> :)
[20:02] <elfy> yep
[20:02] <ali1234> hmm... not gnome-keyring
[20:02] <elfy> brainwash: I never understood why it's not a default action in action buttons either
[20:03] <elfy> easy enough to add it
[20:03] <brainwash> well, all I can find is, that the kernel traps an exception caused by xfce4-indicator and 7 seconds later one caused by nm-applet
[20:04] <knome> elfy, woke up? get a grip man, you waking up at nine at the evening? :P
[20:05] <elfy> knome: catnaps ftw
[20:08] <ochosi> elfy: yeah, i was referring to the context-menu, not the restart button
[20:09] <ochosi> ali1234: you removed it and it's still slow?
[20:09] <ali1234> yeah
[20:09] <ali1234> something is just sleeping for 5 or 10 seconds for no reason
[20:09] <ali1234> there's no high cpu usage so it isn't polling
[20:09] <ochosi> weird
[20:10] <elfy> another bootchart any help?
[20:10] <ochosi> i was wondering whether it's some kind of conflict between logind and consolekit
[20:10] <ochosi> (or whatever logind replaced exactly)
[20:12] <brainwash> I removed ck
[20:12] <ali1234> the only three processes that persist for the full 12 seconds are Xorg, lightdm, and init
[20:13] <ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/al-x10-saucy-20130918-4.png
[20:14] <ali1234> if you want to make these bootcharts, install it and edit /etc/init/bootchart.conf find the place where it sleeps and increase it to 200 or 300 seconds so you have enough time to log in and out a couple of times
[20:14] <ali1234> the comment says "sleep 45 seconds to capture desktop login" - but we want the logout too
[20:15] <ochosi> so it might after all be a bug in lightdm...
[20:15] <ochosi> btw, could you add this information incl the bootchart to the bugreport?
[20:15] <ali1234> sure
[20:16] <ochosi> bug #1227212
[20:16] <ochosi> thanks!
[20:17] <elfy> ali1234: this line? [ "$UPSTART_STOP_EVENTS" = "stopped" ] && sleep 45
[20:17] <ali1234> yes
[20:17] <knome> ochosi, what do you want to do with bug 1177116?
[20:18] <ochosi> knome: reassign it to xfwm4
[20:18] <ochosi> it's not a bug in ubiquity as far as i can say now
[20:18] <knome> ochosi, from ubiquity?
[20:18] <ochosi> and for 13.10 we have to let it go i guess
[20:18] <knome> oki
[20:19] <knome> should i assign it to you or sean?
[20:19] <elfy> biab
[20:21] <ochosi> knome: not sure, sean said he'd do some tests
[20:21] <knome> the title better now?
[20:21] <ochosi> i dont think there has to be an assignee for now
[20:21] <knome> bug 1177116
[20:21] <ochosi> yeah
[20:21] <ochosi> maybe there's even a bug in bugzilla
[20:21] <ochosi> haven't looked yet
[20:24] <knome> i quickly searched, couldn't find anything
[20:25] <ali1234> it's interesting that a bunch of progams last for 6 seconds before exiting and then it takes a further 6 seconds after that for everything to stop
[20:25] <ochosi> you also have to look through closed bugreports i guess
[20:25] <andrzejr> Guys, any chance of fixing bug 1076291?
[20:25] <knome> fff
[20:25] <ochosi> knome: the way i know olivier, he'd have set it to wontfix
[20:26] <ali1234> is upstart doing SIGQUIT && sleep 1 && sleep 5 && SIGKILL && sleep 1 && sleep 5 && SIGTERM?
[20:26] <knome> ochosi, that makes sense.
[20:26] <ochosi> ali1234: hehe, add that question to the bugreport! :D
[20:27] <ali1234> ochosi: ain't nobody going to read that :P
[20:27] <brainwash> can upstart be disabled for the user session?
[20:27] <ochosi> andrzejr: so that basically just needs a new version of libwnck?
[20:28] <ochosi> hmpf, version 2.30.7 here
[20:28] <ochosi> i guess ubuntu folks don't need that lib anymore, so they don't update it
[20:28] <knome> ochosi, no, i don't think there is a bug for that
[20:28] <ochosi> andrzejr: have you checked who the debian/ubuntu maintainer of libwnck22 is?
[20:29] <andrzejr> ochosi, yes.
[20:29] <ochosi> knome: then we should submit one upstream
[20:29] <knome> and (s)he is...?
[20:29] <andrzejr> (yes, new version needed)
[20:29] <knome> ochosi, thanks for volunteering!
[20:29] <knome> ;)
[20:29] <elfy> ali1234: http://imagebin.org/271304 that any good? if it's not I'll get another one in the morning 
[20:29] <ochosi> knome: haha, you're already there!
[20:29] <ochosi> knome: currently dealing with 2 more issues at once
[20:30] <knome> i'm going to bed ASAP
[20:30] <knome> i can do that *later*, if we're not really targeting 13.10 anyway
[20:30] <ochosi> yeah
[20:30] <ochosi> i think we're nt
[20:30] <knome> ok, unlinked from saucy blueprints
[20:31] <ochosi> ty
[20:31] <ali1234> elfy: you didn't sleep long enough so it didn't catch the full log out
[20:31] <elfy> mmm 
[20:31] <elfy> [ "$UPSTART_STOP_EVENTS" = "stopped" ] && sleep 300
[20:32] <ali1234> you didn't save or something
[20:32] <ali1234> or that's an old chart
[20:32] <ochosi> or you didn't log out?
[20:32] <elfy> I installed it 5 minutes ago - it's the only chart :)
[20:32] <ali1234> yeah
[20:33] <elfy> I rebooted ochosi 
[20:33] <knome> i'll be around tomorrow until 13UTC'ish, then later in the evening
[20:33] <knome> maybe like 19UTC->
[20:33] <ali1234> well the chart doesn't appear until after the 300 seconds + boot time
[20:33] <ochosi> elfy: that's different, i don't have the bug with rebooting
[20:33] <ochosi> so the idea is, reboot -> session is loaded -> logout
[20:33] <ochosi> then re-login and get the bootchart
[20:33] <elfy> ochosi: ok - I installed it, changed the conf, restarted - then logged out and logged in 3 times
[20:33] <ochosi> (if i'm not mistaken)
[20:33] <ochosi> oh
[20:34] <elfy> then eventually the bootchart showed up - about 5 minutes I'd guess 
[20:34] <ali1234> yeah
[20:34] <ali1234> well, the chart only shows 60 seconds. i don't know why
[20:34] <elfy> mmm
[20:34] <ali1234> oh hang on
[20:35] <elfy> need to reset bootchart or something after fiddling with the conf file maybe? 
[20:35] <elfy> reconfigure it?
[20:35] <ali1234> no, just reboot
[20:35] <ali1234> hmm, no, i don';t know
[20:35] <elfy> then I've no idea why it only shows 1 minute
[20:35] <ochosi> andrzejr: 2.31 hasn't landed in debian unstable yet, i guess that's the explanation
[20:36] <elfy> I'll restart and logout/in a couple of times again
[20:36] <ali1234> it probably won't show anything different anyway
[20:36] <ochosi> andrzejr: same version in testing, and not at all in experimental
[20:36] <ochosi> andrzejr: so i'd get in touch with the debian maintainer and ask them for a version bump, then ubuntu will automatically sync in the new version as far as i understand
[20:37] <knome> ok, i'm off
[20:37] <knome> good night everybody, and thanks for working to make xubuntu better :)
[20:37] <knome> ->
[20:38] <ochosi> knome: night!
[20:38] <andrzejr> ochosi, thanks. I'll try that.
[20:39] <ochosi> andrzejr: sorry not to be able to offer anything better :/
[20:39] <ochosi> but at least the chances are good that if you contact debian, the fix will land in 14.04, which - after all - is an LTS release
[20:39] <ali1234> ok, here's something. there's that sh/sleep that runs for 60 seconds when you login
[20:40]  * knome facepalms
[20:40] <ali1234> if i wait for that to finish before logging out, logout is much faster
[20:40] <knome> good thing my desktop keeps some noise
[20:40] <knome> would have left it on for all night otherwise
[20:40] <knome> ... ->
[20:40] <ochosi> ali1234: seriously? what's that sleep for?
[20:40] <ali1234> dunno
[20:40] <ali1234> something in the session
[20:40] <ochosi> very odd
[20:40] <ali1234> it only makes a tiny difference
[20:40] <ali1234> let's kill it anyway
[20:40] <andrzejr> ochosi, yay, that will be second anniversary of me fixing that bug! ;-)
[20:41] <ochosi> andrzejr: haha, sorry!!! :D
[20:41] <ali1234> where are the session startup files?
[20:41] <ochosi> log-files or startup-files?
[20:41] <ali1234> startup files
[20:42] <ochosi> hm, not /etc/init.d/ i suppose
[20:42] <ochosi> i've never really dealt with upstart tbh
[20:42] <ali1234> no
[20:42] <ali1234> session startup
[20:42] <ochosi> even the whole concept of upstart-xsessions is pretty new to me
[20:42] <ali1234> init/failsafe.conf:	sleep 59
[20:42] <ali1234> hmm..............
[20:42] <ali1234> hmm...
[20:42] <ochosi> /usr/share/upstart/sessions maybe?
[20:43] <ali1234> rc5.d/S99ondemand:	sleep 60 # probably enough time for desktop login
[20:44] <ali1234> sessions/logrotate.conf:[ -n "$UPSTART_EVENTS" ] && sleep 60 && exit 0
[20:45] <ochosi> is that from the switch from using ~/.xsession-errors to upstart-sessions?
[20:45] <ali1234> no idea, i'm just grepping everything
[20:45] <ochosi> right
[20:45] <ochosi> so that's for rotating the upstart-logs
[20:46] <ali1234> grep -sR sleep\ [1-9][0-9] *
[20:46] <elfy> ali1234: http://imagebin.org/271305 that's 1:45 - I guess it's only actually catching the reboot/logouts/logins - which is about as long as it took to do that a few times
[20:46] <ochosi> which previously wasn't there because xsession-errors was only there for one session iirc
[20:46] <ali1234> there are few 60 second sleeps... it has to be one
[20:47] <ali1234> elfy: yeah that looks just like mine
[20:47] <elfy> ok
[20:48] <elfy> if nothing else it confirms we're seeing the same thing
[20:48] <ochosi> # Don't wait to avoid blocking the session from ending.
[20:48] <ali1234> hahaha
[20:48] <ochosi> /usr/share/upstart/sessions/startxfce4.conf
[20:48] <ali1234> these two things... they are the same thing
[20:48] <ochosi> that's really there ^
[20:49] <ali1234> the reason elfy's bootchart cut off is because that shell script that waits 60 seconds... orders bootchart to stop
[20:49] <ochosi> oh
[20:49] <ali1234> or at least... something does
[20:50] <ali1234> well, the only 60 second sleep is the logrotate one
[20:51] <ochosi> in startxfce4.conf there is a pre-stop and a post-stop command
[20:51] <ochosi> i'm wondering what happens if i skip the pre-stop and directly call the post-stop dbus-call
[20:52] <ochosi> brb
[20:53] <brainwash> guess what, not running the xubuntu session inside an upstart user session did the trick -> instant logout
[20:53] <brainwash>  /etc/upstart-xsessions
[20:54] <ochosi> you mean you just kicked xubuntu out of the upstart-xsessions?
[20:54] <brainwash> uhm, yes
[20:54] <ochosi> good thinking
[20:54] <ochosi> now at least we have the culprit
[20:55] <ochosi> brainwash: feel free to add that to the bugreport
[20:55] <brainwash> only did one logout so far, hopefully it wasn't just a lucky one
[20:55] <ochosi> ok, i'll test too
[20:55] <ali1234> brainwash: can you explain that in more detail?
[20:56] <ali1234> huh... so what runs it if you remove it from the list?
[20:56] <ochosi> brb
[20:56] <brainwash> open /etc/upstart-xsessions and comment out the xubuntu line
[20:56] <brainwash> it improves the logout speed
[20:56] <ochosi> i can confirm that, brainwash 
[20:57] <elfy> so can I
[20:57] <brainwash> according to my tests (1 logout so far)
[20:57] <brainwash> :)
[20:57] <ochosi> elfy: so it *did* log out faster than it used to for you? :)
[20:57] <elfy> I also get immediate logins - rather than the slow one
[20:57] <ochosi> yeah, everything seems a bit snappier
[20:57] <elfy> ochosi: must have done :)
[20:57] <ochosi> we should probably just opt-out of upstart-user-sessions for 13.10 :]
[20:58] <brainwash> stupid upstart, always so annoying
[20:58] <brainwash> and it gets more bloated with every release
[20:59] <brainwash> feel free to add this info to the bug report, doesn't have to be me
[20:59] <ochosi> well you found out about it, you deserve to rant about upstart
[21:00] <ali1234> i bet there's no documentation at all for this is there?
[21:00] <ochosi> i would assume not
[21:00] <ochosi> because no-one outside ubuntu uses upstart
[21:00] <ali1234> i'm going to have to grep for whatever piece of software reads the session list and then read the source code to see what it does differently
[21:03] <ochosi> so why should there be docs
[21:03] <brainwash> there is
[21:03] <ochosi> oh?
[21:03] <brainwash> for the upstart user session
[21:03] <Noskcaj> Does anyone have any complaints with me making a sync bug for tumbler? The changelog is at http://ftp-master.metadata.debian.org/changelogs/main/t/tumbler/unstable_changelog
[21:03]  * ochosi loves to be proven wrong on the existance of docs
[21:03] <brainwash> well, let me find it
[21:03] <elfy> ochosi: surprised or cynical? or both :)
[21:03] <ochosi> elfy: surprised! (and a bit cynical, true ;))
[21:03] <elfy> :)
[21:03] <Noskcaj> xfce4-cpufreq-plugin might also be worth syncing, but probably needs an FFe. http://ftp-master.metadata.debian.org/changelogs/main/x/xfce4-cpufreq-plugin/unstable_changelog
[21:03] <ochosi> Noskcaj: no, sync bugs are good i suppose. don't see any reason why we wouldn't want to sync new versions
[21:03] <ali1234> X11/Xsession.d/00upstart:if grep -q "^$DESKTOP_SESSION\$" /etc/upstart-xsessions; then
[21:03] <ali1234> now what the heck is BASESESSIONS?
[21:04] <brainwash> oh, actually not in the mood to study the upstart cook book... lets just ask the author of upstart, james hunt :)
[21:04] <ochosi> is he around? (as in on irc now)
[21:05] <brainwash> lets head over to #upstart
[21:05] <brainwash> and start a riot
[21:05] <ochosi> hehe
[21:05] <ali1234> pitchforks ready
[21:05] <ochosi> we should all join at once ;)
[21:06]  * ochosi vaguely remembers a riot like that in #xubuntu-devel once
[21:06] <elfy> I've subscribed the xubuntu bug team to 1227212
[21:06] <elfy> brainwash: you going to comment or you want me to?
[21:07] <ochosi> elfy: good
[21:07] <pleia2> ochosi: it's ongoing
[21:07] <ochosi> pleia2: haha, nice one
[21:07] <brainwash> elfy: yes, you can a comment
[21:08] <elfy> pleia2: I don't argue with you in here :p
[21:08] <pleia2> hehe :)
[21:08] <ochosi> pleia2: it was some funny trolly list, i just can't remember it (not craigslist...)
[21:09] <ali1234> not sounder?
[21:09] <ochosi> hmno
[21:09] <ochosi> knome would probably remember
[21:10] <ochosi> it was about his xubuntu logo design :)
[21:10] <pleia2> the decapitated mouse?
[21:10] <pleia2> that was funny
[21:11] <pleia2> it's not decapitated, it's disembodied
[21:12] <ochosi> hehe
[21:12] <ochosi> exactly that
[21:15] <elfy> oh dear - I missed that then :)
[21:15] <ochosi> pleia2: do you remember where the shitstorm came from?
[21:15] <pleia2> nope
[21:18]  * drc wonders if it was ##disney? :)
[21:21] <ochosi> hehe, i'm checking some logs, but can't seem to find it
[21:22] <elfy> well if you find it let me know or let forestpiskie know - but I'm off for a proper sleep now :)
[21:22] <elfy> thanks for digging at this logout speed thing that I never noticed because I rarely logout :p
[21:27] <ali1234> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/FoundationsTeam/Specs/RaringUpstartUserSessions
[21:27] <ali1234> there might be some useful info in that
[21:29] <ali1234> "gnome-session will stop clients that support XSMP / D-Bus session management by giving them up to 10 seconds to shutdown. "
[21:30] <skellat> Noskcaj: I'm objecting on both sync bugs for Docs
[21:30] <Noskcaj> skellat, ok
[21:31] <skellat> Noskcaj: Unless it is a minimal change, lets leave it be for now
[21:31] <Noskcaj> skellat, tumbler is just allowing video thumbnails to work. I'll leave cpufreq then
[21:32] <skellat> Noskcaj: That's a major User Interface change at this point.  When did the new code land in Unstable?
[21:33] <ochosi> hah, found it
[21:33] <skellat> Is Debian Bug #723189 that worrisome that we need to slam something in that's been in Unstable for barely a day?
[21:34] <ochosi> forestpiskie: it was here: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/03/19/%23xubuntu-devel.html
[21:34] <ochosi> (and anyone else interested in the uncalled-for 4chan raid :D)
[21:34] <ochosi> good times
[21:35] <Unit193> Heh, was just going to say too.
[21:35] <Noskcaj> skellat, no, but it's a minor change and something that would be nice to have in saucy. 
[21:35] <Noskcaj> I see your point though
[21:36] <skellat> Let it marinate a little
[21:36] <ochosi> is that version the same as in one of our xubuntu-dev PPAs?
[21:39] <ochosi> Noskcaj: ^
[21:39] <Noskcaj> ochosi, i doubt it, it was a patch that corsac added to debian two days ago
[21:39] <ali1234> hmm i am confused. i don't see how gnome-session is involved, but it must be
[21:40] <ochosi> weird
[21:40] <ochosi> we don't even use gnome-session
[21:42] <brainwash> "No such key 'auto-launch' in schema 'com.ubuntu.update-notifier' as specified in override file '/usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas/20_xubuntu-default-settings.gschema.override'; ignoring override for this key."
[21:42] <brainwash> ^ no bug report for this one yet?
[21:43] <Noskcaj> brainwash, i got that as well
[21:45] <brainwash> couldn't find a report for this one, so I'll create one later
[21:47] <brainwash> because it's time to get rid of all these little bugs, isn't it? :)
[21:47] <Noskcaj> brainwash, yep
[21:49] <ali1234> hmmmm, getting somewhere
[21:49] <ali1234> Session ending could take at worst:   ( max_initial_delay + max_kill_timeout_new ) - Worst case scenario will likely be a wait of (5 + 5) seconds.
[21:50] <ochosi> ali1234: where did you quote that from?
[21:50] <ali1234> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/FoundationsTeam/Specs/RaringUpstartUserSessions
[21:51] <ali1234> so it looks like this really is caused by all those processes that don't die after the initial 5 second delay
[22:03] <ochosi> ali1234: hm, that still doesn't answer how it could be fixed in upstartusersessions
[22:04] <ali1234> not yet, no
[22:04] <ali1234> but it is getting there
[22:11] <bluesabre> finally caught up
[22:12] <bluesabre> omg the logo discussion
[22:14] <ali1234> hurhurhur
[22:14] <ali1234> so here's the problem
[22:14] <ali1234> what that spec says about "average case" is simply nonsense
[22:15] <ali1234> max_kill_timeout can never be less than 5 seconds, because that is the default, and it takes max(default, job)
[22:16] <ochosi> skellat: slangasek is already subscribed and i talked to him *prior* to filing that bugreport
[22:49] <ali1234> ochosi: upstart source init/quiesce.c is where the loop is where it is getting stuck waiting for something
[22:51] <ali1234> somewhere there should be a log full of stuff like nih_warn ("job %s failed to stop", name);
[22:51] <ochosi> ali1234: what a befitting name for the place to hang quietly...
[22:53] <brainwash> running upstart with --verbose could help
[22:54] <brainwash> unless the warnings get logged by default
[22:54] <brainwash> somewhere
[22:54] <ali1234> i grepped, got nothing
[22:55] <ali1234> oh hang on
[22:55] <brainwash> grepped what?
[22:56] <ali1234> ~/.cache/upstart/*
[22:56] <ali1234> ~
[22:56] <ali1234> and /var/log
[22:56] <brainwash> with sudo?
[22:56] <ali1234> no. this is a user session
[22:59] <brainwash> some log files in /var/log aren't readable by the normal user
[22:59] <brainwash> does upstart log any upstart related suff in ~/.cache/upstart?
[22:59] <ali1234> yes, loads
[22:59] <ali1234> but nothing about "job failed to start"
[22:59] <ali1234> *stop
[22:59] <ochosi> partly why i was a bit overwhelmed with skimming those logs...
[22:59] <brainwash> ali1234: so you've studied the upstart user session (the edubuntu wiki article), any benefits for the normal/average user?
[23:00] <ali1234> edubuntu wiki is really the ubuntu wiki btw
[23:00] <ali1234> yeah, the benefit is that session services can say "give me x seconds to shut down before killing me"
[23:00] <ali1234> but the problem is this mechanism isn't implemented properly and so there is always a 5 second delay, and then another 5 second delay
[23:01] <ochosi> please don't forget to add that to the bugreport :p
[23:03] <brainwash> currently I'm trying to slim down my system and get rid of all the bloat I don't need
[23:03] <brainwash> not sure about lightdm yet :)
[23:04] <brainwash> but I want to try and create a very basic greeter
[23:05] <bluesabre> lightdm-gtk-greeter is pretty light
[23:05] <bluesabre> but maybe you want xdm?
[23:06] <ochosi> or slim
[23:06] <ochosi> nomen est omen
[23:07] <brainwash> guess I'll compile slim with systemd/logind support
[23:07] <brainwash> bluesabre: did you already update the gtk2 greeter packages?
[23:07] <bluesabre> haven't had a chance to yet
[23:08] <brainwash> actually I don't mind using the gtk2 greeter, so I could keep lightdm
[23:12] <brainwash> what a bummer, the gdm packages wants to pull almost the entire gnome shell
[23:27] <bluesabre> micahg: if you're available, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1227402
[23:27] <bluesabre> and if you need extra files...
[23:27] <bluesabre> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rbfwdd90upfyv7j/8IbL-lPjE3
[23:28] <bluesabre> theres all the tarballs for the build
[23:28] <bluesabre> ochosi, knome ^
[23:32] <bluesabre> brainwash: just added that change, build should be done within the hour
[23:34] <brainwash> bluesabre: I'll test it then asap :)
[23:36] <bluesabre> yup, let me know how it works for you
[23:36] <bluesabre> gotta go, bbl
[23:42] <ochosi> same here, night everyone