[07:50] <ghostcube> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9b9bxUyK0o  xD
[16:25] <akerbeltz> am I too late for the l10n  session?
[16:47] <dholbach> akerbeltz, nope, the meeting will start in 13m
[16:47] <akerbeltz> thanx, i miscalculated UTC to GMT it turns out
[17:00] <pleia2> #startmeeting
[17:00] <dholbach> o/
[17:00] <pleia2> #chair dholbach czajkowski beuno
[17:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep 19 17:00:35 2013 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[17:00] <meetingology> Current chairs: beuno czajkowski dholbach pleia2
[17:00] <hannie> hello CC
[17:00] <beuno> hello hello!
[17:00] <pleia2> welcome to the Community Council meeting :)
[17:00] <czajkowski> aloha
[17:01] <pleia2> #chair Gwaihir
[17:01] <meetingology> Current chairs: Gwaihir beuno czajkowski dholbach pleia2
[17:01] <akerbeltz> hi
[17:01] <dholbach> so it seems we have people from the translations community here! *\o/*
[17:01] <pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[17:01] <pleia2> ^^ Agenda
[17:01] <pleia2> #topic Translations Community Check-in
[17:02] <pleia2> so with these check-ins we just see how the team is doing, if there are any issues that we can help with, etc
[17:02] <dholbach> welcome hannie and akerbeltz - anyone else here from the translations community?
[17:02] <hannie> thanks for the welcome
[17:03] <Geochr> dholbach, Hi from Greek team
[17:03] <dholbach> how are you doing? how are things in the translations world? :)
[17:03] <dholbach> welcome Geochr!
[17:03] <hannie> Well, we can start translating now (freeze). Most of the messages are translated alreaddy
[17:04] <hannie> *already
[17:04] <pleia2> yay freeze day \o/
[17:05] <dholbach> do you have good communication channels to most of the teams? (like: are they all on the mailing list and so on?)
[17:05] <hannie> There is a mailing list for translators which we use frequently. It works well.
[17:06] <hannie> All translation team members can communicate via this mailing list
[17:06] <hannie> ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com
[17:07] <dholbach> great, so all the team should know about the freeze date and everything
[17:08] <dholbach> I think I remember language pack creation from our last meeting to having been a bit of a problem - is that still the case?
[17:08] <hannie> I haven' t mentioned the freeze on the translators list. Perhaps I should do so
[17:09] <pleia2> hannie: probably a good idea :)
[17:09] <dholbach> yeah, a "ready? set? go!" message might help :-)
[17:09] <hannie> dholbach, I offered my help with the language pack updates
[17:09] <hannie> But Milo Casagrande, who offered to help me get on the way, has not contacted me yet
[17:10] <pleia2> that's Gwaihir
[17:10] <akerbeltz> pleia2 told me it's ok to just bring up any issues - we (GunChleoc and me) had some specific problems with the Gaelic localization (rogue translator) but I think they have wider implications. At the moment there seems to be no efficient way of dealing with rogue translators globally on Launchapd and there is also no way of purging really bad translations
[17:10] <pleia2> Gwaihir: can you follow up with hannie?
[17:11] <dholbach> akerbeltz, did you talk to other teams to find out how they dealt with similar issues in the past?
[17:11] <akerbeltz> yes
[17:11] <hannie> ah, those nicks :)
[17:11] <Gwaihir> pleia2, hannie, I will, and I need to chase the other person who offered help, since I didn't hear from him
[17:11] <hannie> Gwaihir, ok, I will wait and see...
[17:12] <akerbeltz> mostly they suggested managing the issue via teams but the problem is that there are projects/packages on Launchpad which are *outside* the main Ubuntu files (such as Linux Mint). This left us in the position of having to chase the owners of individual projects
[17:12] <akerbeltz> which is problematic as they, on the whole, cannot tell if a translator is good or bad in his or her language
[17:12] <akerbeltz> it also costs a LOT of time
[17:13] <dholbach> akerbeltz, were you able to reach out to the translator to try to integrate them better into the team?
[17:14] <hannie> akerbeltz, I saw that this rogue translator has withdrawn from Launchpad
[17:14] <akerbeltz> I have been trying to (very diplomatically initially) talk to the guy in question for over a year now but in a nutshell, he though he was the beezneez and eventually I had to be more clear about the quality implications. at that point he resigned from the Ubuntu team for gd. But sadly he then started picking on projects that are not "covered" by that team
[17:15] <akerbeltz> yes he has now left but for the future, I think there ought to be a better process of handling rogue translators globally. I'm sure we are not the only locale in danger of those
[17:15] <hannie> I think the best option is to make a team moderate or restricted
[17:16] <hannie> When a team is open, anyone can have their translations accepted immediately
[17:16] <akerbeltz> but that does not seem to work globally
[17:16] <GunChleoc> The proble is that we're not talking about problems in a team here, we're talking about somebody goind off on a rampage across a whole language. There are mutilpe teams on Launchpad
[17:17] <czajkowski> +1
[17:17] <Geochr> akerbeltz, Try to contact with the owner of the project
[17:17] <GunChleoc> And of course a team leader will gladly accept somebody to start a new localization not knowing if the person is any good
[17:17] <hannie> GunChleoc, the problem is that Linux Mint is an open team
[17:17] <czajkowski> it can be difficult as you do want people to be involved
[17:17] <czajkowski> is there possibly a way to mentor soeone
[17:17] <czajkowski> *someone
[17:17] <GunChleoc> Oh, I see. It proves my point though
[17:18] <GunChleoc> When somebody refuses mentorship, no.
[17:18] <czajkowski> see if they've done some transalations and then let them translate more
[17:18] <akerbeltz> Yes but that means that once you spot a rogue, you then have to chase him across all projects, that costs a lot of time and in most cases, the project owners cannot tell good from bad
[17:19] <GunChleoc> It's easy when you have a bog language like, say, German with over 1000 contributors, there are enough people to know about quality and so forth. In a small language, things are more difficult
[17:19] <akerbeltz> some translators are so bad mentoring is not an option, we're not talking debates about a comma or a typo here or there, we're talking barely fluent people
[17:19] <czajkowski> akerbeltz: that is up to the owners of the project imo. I saw many mails when I worked in launchpad of people not likeing translations and it's difficult to police
[17:21] <hannie> czajkowski, or the LoCo perhaps?
[17:21] <akerbeltz> but that causes serious quality issues down the line - if you owned a project and there were two Gaelic translators arguing that the other party is producing bad stuff, how could you judge? and if you just step back and say "you sort it out" then in the end the end user suffers because they get gibberish on screen. which does not help the image of Ubuntu/Linux
[17:21] <Geochr> akerbeltz, A solution is to create a team (not open) and to contact with the owner of the project to change the translation permissions into the "official" translationteam
[17:21] <akerbeltz> we tried that
[17:22] <akerbeltz> the rogue then came back with a whole lot of aggro
[17:22] <akerbeltz> and the owner then change it back to "open" because he (rightly) said he could not judge
[17:22] <dholbach> I think that or similar stories have happened across quite some teams
[17:23] <akerbeltz> i'm sure it has
[17:23] <akerbeltz> which is why I wanted to raise it
[17:23] <Geochr> if the owner change the permission, then if someone is out of the team, he is not able to review messages
[17:24] <Geochr> always hiw messages will be as suggetions
[17:24] <Geochr> his*
[17:24] <GunChleoc> This is actually the really big problem we had with him, that he kept marking bad translations as reviewed
[17:24] <hannie> Geochr, not when the team is open
[17:24] <czajkowski> GunChleoc: so I used to see a lot of that in a similar manner on launchpad answers
[17:24] <Geochr> hannie, you are right
[17:25] <akerbeltz> it was open. then I contacted the owner and he restricted the project. fine. the rogue then came back and argued. the owner then said he could not judge and set it to open. There are a LOT of projects across Launchpad. If we have to argue with *each* that will cost us SO much time we might as well not bother
[17:25] <Geochr> thiw is the first i have write
[17:25] <czajkowski> the best bet there is to email them and say there are issues here and expain why it's not working, if it continues then perhaps look at having them not in the team especially if it leads to more work down the line
[17:25] <GunChleoc> And it also puts the project leaders into an impossible situation
[17:25] <dholbach> the general approach I've witnessed across teams has almost always been to reach out to the person, sometimes through somebody in their loco team or city group or somehow near them or by the phone or skype (this has worked well in many cases) to get them to live up to the team's standards
[17:26] <czajkowski> dholbach: +1
[17:26] <GunChleoc> The problem is that our language is too smal to have another person mediate
[17:26] <hannie> dholbach, I agree that the loco team could act as a judge
[17:26] <GunChleoc> There are 3 of us only for the entire language across all open source projects under the sun. akerbeltz, me and the rogue
[17:26] <Geochr> +1 hannie
[17:27] <GunChleoc> So, who's the loco team that could mediate?
[17:27] <hannie> Is there a Scottish loco team?
[17:27] <akerbeltz_> dholbach, that again only works for big languages. GunChleoc and me are the only localizers (on the whole) working for Scottish Gaelic. There is no loco team or city group.
[17:28] <czajkowski> hannie: no it falls under UK as it's not language specific
[17:28] <dholbach> akerbeltz: does somebody live near to the guy who did the translations?
[17:29] <akerbeltz_> all we have is his handle, no idea who he is or where he lives
[17:29] <dholbach> ah, I thought you were in touch with him somehow
[17:29] <akerbeltz> email
[17:29] <dholbach> so in a couple of cases I offered to have a chat on skype or somewhere else, maybe that'd work, but it seems he left the team already
[17:29] <GunChleoc> Yes, e-mail only. akerbeltz is the one who did the direct communication with him
[17:30] <dholbach> so that'd probably be a suggestion for the next time you run into a similar issue
[17:30] <akerbeltz> do you know how many junk translations he submitted until he got annoyed enough to leave? and what if the next guy won't leave?
[17:31] <akerbeltz> we will be proofreading after someone else's priorities forever rather than work out priorities for the locale and getting it right the first time
[17:31] <GunChleoc> Maybe there should be an established process to handle such cases
[17:31] <akerbeltz> or a global Launchpad team for each locale
[17:31] <GunChleoc> We will still have to chase him on Transifex as well - not looking forward to that
[17:31] <GunChleoc> A global team is a good idea
[17:32] <akerbeltz> (sorry my internet keeps dropping out, rainy day in Glasgow)
[17:32] <GunChleoc> We could have a global team for access rights, and then people could still join individual teams for the projetcs they wish to translate
[17:33] <czajkowski> akerbeltz: have you brought up any of these suggestions onto the launchpad translations mailing list ?
[17:33] <dholbach> akerbeltz, I can't guarantee you that having a chat on the phone or skype will resolve all problems every single time
[17:33] <dholbach> akerbeltz, it's just my experience that some personal contact often helped, and that mistakes or misunderstandings could be cleared up quicker
[17:33] <akerbeltz> yes, silence from any known admins, other team leaders suggesting team with restricted settings but that clearly doesn't work globally, I also posted a question
[17:33] <dholbach> but I'm not going to try to convince you - it was a suggestion
[17:34] <akerbeltz> it wasn't personal, honestly, I can forward you the emails. it was purely based on 15 years of experience in the translation industry
[17:35] <GunChleoc> The problem is that our rogue is actiny deply offended, and people in that state won't listen. So, it would have to come from a "neutral" party
[17:35] <czajkowski> akerbeltz: it can be tricky to have a industry background when working in a community setting, the two often need to work harder togeteher to get done as people have different opinions and ideas.
[17:35]  * hannie has to leave in a minute. Success in solving this problem
[17:36] <GunChleoc> thanks Hannie
[17:36] <dholbach> hannie, any other items you wanted to bring up in the meeting?
[17:36] <czajkowski> https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-translators
[17:36] <hannie> No, just the language packs updates
[17:36] <czajkowski> I think it might be good to bring up some of the ideas on this list
[17:36] <hannie> See you all
[17:36] <dholbach> hannie, perfect, thanks a bunch
[17:36] <akerbeltz> czaj, I agree, Launchapd is not the only project I'm working with. But there is a fundamental level of language skill you need before you can translate *anyt*thing even vaguely useful and some folk just don't have that
[17:36] <akerbeltz> see you hannie
[17:37] <akerbeltz> it was, honest to [insert preferred invocation] at the "all you base are belong to us" level
[17:37] <czajkowski> akerbeltz: I understand, but at the same time we in the ubuntu community do try and find ways for people to contribute in non code like ways so for some translations is key. we all just need to work together and it can be a bit harder with a language barrier.
[17:38] <dholbach> akerbeltz, right - we've seen the same in support forums, in Ubuntu development, in QA and many other parts of the community... you often have people who are very excited, sometimes very young, sometimes you have a language barrier or a different temper or whatever it may be - it can be difficult
[17:38] <akerbeltz> yes, I offered that too. In fact, I didn't even ask him to quit - all I asked for initially was to pause so we could catch up proofreading. No luck. I offered he could help in face to face workshops, no interest.
[17:39] <dholbach> akerbeltz, so GunChleoc suggested a neutral party, you suggested a global team - did you bring up those ideas on the translators list?
[17:39] <akerbeltz> yes, ringing silence
[17:40] <akerbeltz> except from fellow team leaders who suggested things along the lines of restricting permissions
[17:41] <dholbach> I'm not an expert when it comes to Launchpad's translations permissions, so I'm afraid I can't comment on that.
[17:41] <dholbach> Maybe it'd be worth reaching out to teams who had similar issues again and see if you can get them to reply to the mail.
[17:42] <akerbeltz> and how would I find them? and what would I propose?
[17:42] <dholbach> I thought somebody said earlier that other teams had had the same issues in the translations space
[17:42] <dholbach> in any case I'd probably try again to revive the mailing list thread
[17:42] <akerbeltz> yes, all from biiig languages who have enough people to set up teams for everything
[17:43] <akerbeltz> surely the quality of localization must be important to the project? sure, the code makes it tick but the point of contact with the user is the UI - if that brings up gibberish, the user won't care how wonderful the code is.
[17:45] <pleia2> I don't think anyone said it wasn't important, it's just a tricky problem to solve
[17:46] <dholbach> trust me, I do understand the importance of translations - unfortunately I just can't comment on Launchpad permissions or on the proposal as I'm not very much involved in the translations space
[17:46] <pleia2> akerbeltz: can you forward your email to the translations list to community-council@lists.ubuntu.com and we can follow up to see if we can find some launchpad folks with some more ideas?
[17:46] <dholbach> pleia2, yes - good idea
[17:47] <akerbeltz> ok
[17:47] <dholbach> thanks
[17:47] <GunChleoc> We might have to changee the permission system for a global solution
[17:47] <dholbach> do we have any other issues anyone wanted to bring up from the translations community?
[17:47] <akerbeltz> I will draft something with GunChleoc
[17:47] <dholbach> we still have the membership board up in the queue - anyone from the board in here?
[17:48] <pleia2> chilicuil: you here?
[17:48] <GunChleoc> Launchpad translators decides who can found a global language team, then the global language team can vet new translators, who then can join projects.
[17:48] <Geochr> dholbach, what is going with ubuntu translation stats?
[17:48] <dholbach> Geochr, hannie would probably have been a good person to ask
[17:49] <dholbach> I'm afraid I don't know - if there are issues with it, it might also be worth raising it on the team mailing list
[17:49] <pleia2> IdleOne? Pendulum_? cjohnston? hggdh?
[17:49] <PabloRubianes> pleia2: now is time to the membership board?
[17:49] <pleia2> should update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards/SittingMembers some expired
[17:49] <pleia2> PabloRubianes: yes
[17:49] <PabloRubianes> I am here
[17:49] <PabloRubianes> :)
[17:49] <pleia2> #topic Membership Board Check-in
[17:49] <dholbach> I'd like to thank all the translators for the great work they've been doing. Keep up the good work!
[17:50] <akerbeltz> ok, thanks folks, see youse
[17:50] <pleia2> PabloRubianes: happy birthday :)
[17:51] <pleia2> and welcome!
[17:51] <Geochr> Also i awant to say for a bug that affects all the translations problems
[17:51] <IdleOne> half here
[17:51] <PabloRubianes> pleia2: thanks!
[17:51] <chilicuil> hi there
[17:51] <pleia2> Geochr: if any changes are made, we'll be sure to coordinate that properly with the translations community
[17:51] <Geochr> I have reported but it has been marked as low priority
[17:51] <chilicuil> congrats PabloRubianes, today is my birthday too =D
[17:51] <dholbach> congratulations chilicuil!
[17:51] <pleia2> chilicuil: neat, happy birthday to you too!
[17:52] <pleia2> mine is 10 days away :)
[17:52] <PabloRubianes> chilicuil: hehehe so happy birthday too :D
[17:52] <Geochr> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/975970
[17:52] <chilicuil> PabloRubianes, pleia2 =P
[17:52] <pleia2> Geochr: good to know, thanks
[17:52] <pleia2> we're approaching an hour for this meeting, so we should move on to the membership board
[17:52] <chilicuil> dholbach: n_n
[17:53] <czajkowski> Geochr: re the LP bug, LP is in maintenance mode and bugs taged low really may not get done without community involvment as LP is down to two people.
[17:53] <pleia2> anyone from the membership board have comments about how things are going? any issues? happy stories? things we can help with?
[17:53] <czajkowski> pleia2: happy Birthday!
[17:53] <czajkowski> PabloRubianes: Happy Birthday
[17:53] <PabloRubianes> czajkowski: thanks!!!
[17:54] <PabloRubianes> pleia2: I think we are doing fine, we have a regular amount of applicants
[17:54] <Geochr> czajkowski, what do you suggest ?
[17:54] <czajkowski> Geochr: we have to move to the other board as running low on time sorry
[17:54] <czajkowski> PabloRubianes: do you guys have enough people on the board to make the meetings?
[17:55] <PabloRubianes> czajkowski: we always get at least 4
[17:55] <PabloRubianes> in the 22UTC
[17:55] <Geochr> ok thanks, i hope to be that soon
[17:56] <chilicuil> we had some issues with an asian team who tried to get the membership in bulk, language barriers, we started discussing ways to improve the situation however we've not decided anything yet
[17:56] <PabloRubianes> the only problem we had lately was
[17:56] <czajkowski> chilicuil: membership in bulk is new to me :)
[17:57] <czajkowski> what happened?
[17:57] <PabloRubianes> we got almost all the myanmar team
[17:57] <PabloRubianes> applying as 1
[17:57] <pleia2> they had identical pages because they all contributed to the same events
[17:57] <pleia2> so it was really hard to tell who did what
[17:57] <czajkowski> ah I see
[17:58] <PabloRubianes> pleia2: the problem was not just the events
[17:58] <chilicuil> we had 10~ applicants from the same loco team, many of them had very similar input in its wiki pages, it seems it was because of a language barrier that they couldn't personalize his pages, and communication wasn't great in the meeting neither
[17:58] <PabloRubianes> events, testimonials
[17:58]  * pleia2 nods
[17:58] <PabloRubianes> and the language barrier got them angry
[17:59] <PabloRubianes> on top of all the time zone was a mess too
[17:59] <PabloRubianes> for them was like 5am
[17:59] <IdleOne> It was frustrating for all involved
[17:59] <czajkowski> nods
[17:59] <czajkowski> in siutations like that would doing it via email be of use
[17:59] <czajkowski> timezones are tricky
[18:00] <PabloRubianes> czajkowski: they had the other board
[18:00] <PabloRubianes> but I email them before the meeting about that
[18:00] <czajkowski> nods ok
[18:00] <IdleOne> That is what happened. We gave them some instructions on improving their personal wiki pages and took the vote to email.
[18:00] <PabloRubianes> but after the got angry i got "Ohh I wait until 5am and I don't get elected?"
[18:01] <pleia2> sounds like one of those unusual situations that won't really come up often and you handed it well
[18:01] <PabloRubianes> thay*
[18:01] <PabloRubianes> they*
[18:01] <IdleOne> it still turned out that most were not approved and some got upset...
[18:01] <czajkowski> pleia2: indeed
[18:02] <IdleOne> pleia2: yes, it isn't something I think will happened too often. Was certainly a test for both the board and the applicants
[18:02] <PabloRubianes> I think they still didnot understand what happend
[18:02] <PabloRubianes> IdleOne: +1
[18:04] <IdleOne> All in all I think the Membership board (12-22UTC) are doing good. I think we may need to step up on our team reports. I am guilty of not doing them myself :/
[18:05] <czajkowski> anything the CC can help with folks?
[18:05] <pleia2> I think the most important thing is getting the announcement emails out, more than team reports
[18:05] <pleia2> so if you want to focus on something, I'd suggest there :)
[18:06] <IdleOne> Nothing I can think of, the meeting seem to run smooth. I think our main thing is the paper work after. I think the we have been good about the emails being done. PabloRubianes chilicuil ?
[18:06] <chilicuil> the wiki page could take some love too, when people go to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership they should feel inspired
[18:06] <pleia2> haven't seen an announcement for the last meeting yet
[18:06] <PabloRubianes> I agree with IdleOne
[18:06] <chilicuil> everything else seems ok to me
[18:07] <czajkowski> excellent
[18:07] <dholbach> good work!
[18:07] <IdleOne> pleia2: I'll remind the 1200 folks about it.
[18:07] <pleia2> thanks :)
[18:07] <czajkowski> Thank you for all your hard work!
[18:08] <pleia2> and thanks for joining us here at the meeting
[18:09] <dholbach> have a great rest of your day everyone!
[18:09] <dholbach> chilicuil, PabloRubianes: enjoy your birthdays! :)
[18:09] <IdleOne> thank you.
[18:09] <PabloRubianes> dholbach: thanks
[18:09] <PabloRubianes> One more thing
[18:09] <PabloRubianes> to the CC
[18:09] <PabloRubianes> I've just send you the LoCo Council applications
[18:10] <dholbach> yep, saw the mail
[18:10] <PabloRubianes> :)
[18:10] <IdleOne> oh, +1 PabloRubianes for LoCo council
[18:10] <pleia2> #topic Any other business
[18:10] <dholbach> I'll have a look at it tomorrow
[18:10] <dholbach> does anyone else have any other agenda items or things you wanted to bring up?
[18:10] <pleia2> now that the LoCo Council call is wrapped up, we'll be sending out the Community Council restaffing call within the next day or so
[18:10] <pleia2> (we expire in mid october)
[18:11]  * pleia2 gives meetingology some more internets
[18:12] <dholbach> :-)
[18:12] <pleia2> oh!
[18:12] <pleia2> dholbach: how do we make a change to http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/governance ?
[18:12] <pleia2> the first paragraph under CC confuses me a bit and doesn't seem accurate
[18:12] <pleia2> "It is the Community Council that approves the creation of a new team or project, along with team leader appointments."
[18:12] <pleia2> we don't strictly do that
[18:13] <dholbach> pleia2, for now just file a bug, but I still have work item from UDS to find a few folks who would like to be co-editors of the page
[18:13] <dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community-website/+filebug
[18:14] <pleia2> dholbach: this is on ubuntu.com
[18:14] <pleia2> not community
[18:14] <pleia2> maybe https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+filebug ?
[18:14] <dholbach> oh sorry
[18:14] <dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website-content/+filebug
[18:14] <pleia2> ah ok
[18:15] <pleia2> thanks, I'll do that
[18:15] <pleia2> and sub the cc to the bug
[18:15] <dholbach> cool
[18:15]  * pleia2 peers at trello real quick
[18:16] <pleia2> ah, we had a volunteer go through our planet config
[18:16] <pleia2> still need to review his feedback
[18:16] <pleia2> I'll dig up that mail and follow up soon
[18:17] <pleia2> ok, I guess we'll wrap this up then :)
[18:17]  * dholbach hugs pleia2
[18:17] <pleia2> thanks everyone
[18:17] <dholbach> thanks a  bunch!
[18:17] <pleia2> #endmeeting
[18:17] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep 19 18:17:53 2013 UTC.
[18:17] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-19-17.00.moin.txt
[18:17] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-19-17.00.html
[18:17] <dholbach> all right... dinner time!
[18:17] <dholbach> see you :)