[00:02] <Unit193> Jeudi: The ISO is 700M about, you can put that on your drive and use persistence.
[00:04] <Jeudi> Unit193: Can I follow the same instructions to create a bootable USB as are provided for Ubuntu?
[00:05] <Unit193> Should, which ones?
[00:06] <Unit193> If in windows, use Linux Live USB creator.
[00:06] <Jeudi> I use Macs.
[00:06] <Jeudi> I was going to use http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/create-a-usb-stick-on-mac-osx
[00:07] <Jeudi> Actually, wait, I'll just boot into Boot Camp and do it from there.
[00:12] <Jeudi> Unit193: Thanks for the help.
[00:28] <john_rambo> When trying to purge blueman .......lubuntu desktop is gestting uninstalled ....Is there a way ?
[05:40] <freed> hey if anyone's here, i could use some help
[07:20] <Subroutine> hallo, why is lubuntu trying to mount encrypted swap before i log in? first i thought i messed something up, but then i had to reload os(i kept lubuntu coz i like it), but i keep having the same issue.
[07:20] <Myrtti> well what did you expect it to do then?
[07:21] <Myrtti> swap usually is mounted before logging in, encrypted or not
[07:21] <Subroutine> why does it flag up en error when its so normal?
[07:23] <Myrtti> well that's difficult to know without knowing details
[07:25] <Soul-Sing> Subroutine, do you minotor swap via gparted, or via dsmeg/kernel logs?
[07:27] <Subroutine> Soul-Sing: none. i sepose im not the good in linux jet. i get this message on boot thet crypto swap isnt present but as soon as i log in i see it using fdisk or swapon
[07:27] <Soul-Sing> i had problems with swap and fixed it via sudo gparted
[07:27] <Subroutine> *yet
[07:27] <Soul-Sing> ok
[07:28] <Soul-Sing> fdisk is another way to get some insight
[07:28] <Subroutine> Soul-Sing: ill give it a look. thanks
[07:29] <Soul-Sing> gparted has to be installed on lubuntu
[07:29] <Myrtti> gparted should be started with gksudo, not sudo
[07:29] <Soul-Sing> ubuntu/gnome has by default on board
[07:30] <Soul-Sing> it
[07:30] <Myrtti> gparted is a partition management software so you'll have to be *very* careful with it
[07:30] <Subroutine> Myrtti: me and careful doesnt come well together :)
[07:30] <Myrtti> backups of important data?
[07:30] <Myrtti> or nothing important on the harddrives
[07:31] <Subroutine> nothing important
[07:32] <vn151502510> Subroutine: could you `cat /etc/fstab`
[07:32] <Soul-Sing> only monitor the outcome of sudo garted, or show a picture of it
[07:32] <vn151502510> Subroutine: and "sudo fdisk -l"
[07:33] <Soul-Sing>  "sudo fdisk -l" indeed
[07:36] <Subroutine> outputs: https://pastebin.com/2V0J89QK
[07:37] <Subroutine> it looks ok to me - its just this warning on startup...
[07:39] <Soul-Sing> Disk /dev/mapper/cryptswap1 doesn't contain a valid partition table
[07:40] <Subroutine> Soul-Sing: i thought that the way it should be. its encrypted
[07:40] <Soul-Sing> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1945126
[07:40] <Soul-Sing> That is usually the encrypted swap partition, and as such will not have a partition table available to fdisk.
[07:43] <Soul-Sing> on the other hand very techn. stuff as: http://blog.ubuntulinuxguide.com/2013/02/make-ubuntu-1204-recognize-encrypted.html...
[07:46] <Subroutine> sudo cryptsetup stauts cryptswap1
[07:47] <Soul-Sing> sudo cryptsetup status cryptswap1  you mean?
[07:48] <Subroutine> Soul-Sing: yes and i ment to type it on different keyboard too :)
[07:48] <Soul-Sing> prob.: cryptswap1 is active and is in use
[07:51] <Subroutine> i have gotta go, but thats all. i will try Soul-Sing 's link when i get back
[07:51] <Soul-Sing> have a nice day
[07:51] <Subroutine> u 2 m8
[12:11] <Dry_Lips> oi!
[12:11] <Dry_Lips> Lubuntu 13.10 doesn't work with unetbootin
[12:11] <Dry_Lips> Am I the only one having this problem?
[12:13] <gonz_> Dry_Lips: isolinux missing or corrupt?
[12:13] <gonz_> That's what I was getting just now with 13.04 and dd
[12:14] <gonz_> Then again I'm pretty sure I was just making a mistake with the arguments to dd.
[12:19] <Dry_Lips> gonz_ isolinux is present, but I'm getting a "Missing operating system" when I try to boot...
[12:24] <gonz_> Yeah, I can tell you right now I'll most certainly be of no help. The 13.04 iso seems to work fine, though.
[12:24] <gonz_> If that's a route to take.
[12:28] <Dry_Lips> I'll try to use the usb-creator instead of unetbootin and see what happens...
[12:41] <Dry_Lips> gonz_ yay, startup creator worked...
[13:03] <Dry_Lips> Hi, when trying to install Lubuntu on an old machine (2,3 Ghz Celeron, 1GB RAM) I get this error message: SIS630 compatible bus not detected, module not inserted...
[13:04] <Dry_Lips> Is there a way around this?
[15:09] <taoseeker> hi
[16:19] <melodie> hi
[16:20] <melodie> I fired Lubuntu Saucy testing, I think it's beta or beta2, after zsyncing it seems not to change date and is still marked sept. 20 : is that because it is a beta freeze?
[16:34] <melodie> no one on board ? :)
[17:36] <melodie> does someone know why there is a ppa for intel drivers?
[17:36] <melodie> https://launchpad.net/~glasen/+archive/intel-driver
[17:36] <Unit193> There's a PPA for everything.
[17:37] <Unit193> Also, depends on where you sync'd the iso from, if you used the beta link then of course it's the beta.
[18:05] <melodie> hi Unit193
[18:06] <melodie> Unit193 is that the right link?
[18:06] <melodie> zsync http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily-live/current/saucy-desktop-i386.iso.zsync
[18:06] <melodie> I was waiting for an answer before spilling a CD-R
[18:07] <melodie> because I'd like to test with a common install method
[18:08] <Unit193> melodie: isoinfo -J -i saucy-desktop-i386.iso -x .disk/info
[18:23] <melodie> ok
[18:29] <melodie> Unit193
[18:29] <melodie> isoinfo -J -i saucy-desktop-i386.iso -x .disk/info
[18:29] <melodie> returns nothing
[18:30] <Unit193> melodie: Oops, sorry.  That last one should be /.disk/info
[18:30] <melodie> thanks
[18:30] <melodie> Lubuntu 13.10 "Saucy Salamander" - Alpha i386 (20130920)
[18:30] <melodie> how can I get the beta latest then?
[18:31] <melodie> I can wget it if needed, got a good adsl here
[18:31] <Unit193> Beta isn't quite out yet.
[18:32] <melodie> in the ml
[18:32] <melodie> Re: [Lubuntu-qa] Lubuntu 13.10 beta
[18:32] <melodie> ?
[18:34] <Unit193> Yes, might be helpful to read the content, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2013-September/001059.html UIF and Doc string.
[18:40] <genoobie> hey
[18:40] <genoobie> I am installing lubuntu
[18:40] <genoobie> need a bit of advice
[18:40] <genoobie> a bit of a newb
[18:40] <genoobie> I am doing a dual boot
[18:40] <genoobie> but I'm not sure about the partitioning thing
[18:41] <genoobie> hello?
[18:44] <Unit193> Well, what's the question?
[18:44] <Unit193> !partitioning
[19:00] <melodie> Unit193 ok thanks, so I guess the ISO I have updated today is ok for testing.
[19:01] <l4cr0ss> lubuntu install didn't have an sshd_config file by default, is there a way to generate one
[19:04] <genoobie> thanks Unit193 I got taken away for a m inute
[19:04] <Unit193> l4cr0ss: Maybe installing openssh-server? ;)
[19:04] <Unit193> melodie: Yeppers.
[19:05] <l4cr0ss> Unit193: lol, thank you
[19:06] <genoobie> so Unit193 since I am a bit new to this
[19:06] <genoobie> I should probably just make two partitions
[19:06] <genoobie> "/" and "/swap"
[19:06] <melodie> genoobie what OS do you have in this hard drive ?
[19:06] <genoobie> presently xp
[19:06] <genoobie> so the drive is 160GB
[19:07] <melodie> do a full defragmentation, then reduce it
[19:07] <genoobie> 40 is NTFS (xp)
[19:07] <genoobie> there's 120GB left over
[19:07] <genoobie> I'd like to take a snapshot of the drive with clonezilla when I am done
[19:07] <Unit193> Swap and root would work fine, sometimes people do a seperate /home too, but not required.
[19:07] <genoobie> and make a restore image
[19:07] <melodie> you could use Ultradefrag for this purpose, in order to have a good open source defragmenter
[19:07] <genoobie> I don't need to defrag
[19:07] <melodie> you don't?
[19:08] <genoobie> no, I already have two spaces on the drive
[19:08] <genoobie> 40GB is ntfs
[19:08] <genoobie> 120 is unallocated presently
[19:08] <genoobie> so I am a bit confused by the installer options though
[19:08] <melodie> so you can point to it and let the ubuntu installer install to it with automatic method
[19:08] <melodie> or as Unit193 says you can do / /home and swap, as you wish
[19:09] <genoobie> in free space I am going to create two partitions
[19:09] <genoobie> let's say one is 30GB to contain the lubuntu installation
[19:09] <genoobie> and the other is 3GB for swap
[19:09] <melodie> if you create your partitions with Gparted for instance, you can then choose the "expert" option for install time, then select the relevant partitions to setup this one for / and that one for /home and this other one for swap
[19:10] <melodie> you select with the left click then you have the options for each one
[19:10] <genoobie> right, that's what I am doing but just a bit confused by the options
[19:10] <melodie> which one ?
[19:10] <genoobie> so I say "35000 MB" for a logical partition
[19:10] <genoobie> ext4 but the mount point is?
[19:10] <melodie> the mount point for the root system has to be /
[19:11] <genoobie> okay
[19:11] <genoobie> got it
[19:11] <melodie> 35000 MB seems very very big to me
[19:11] <genoobie> I just think if I want to create a backup image, one partition would be easier for now.
[19:11] <genoobie> well, that's going to include home and everything else
[19:11] <genoobie> "/bin /usr /var
[19:11] <genoobie> etc
[19:11] <melodie> a cloning tool such as clonezilla lets you choose whatever
[19:12] <genoobie> so you're saying that I ought not to partition this way
[19:12] <genoobie> okay
[19:12] <melodie> you can clone one or several partitions at same time, and even choose which ones
[19:12] <genoobie> so another scheme is "400mb for /boot" and "10GB for /" and another 25GB for everything else
[19:13] <melodie> I have almost 16000 MB for my /
[19:13] <genoobie> so my question is does the order that you create these partitions matter
[19:13] <melodie> in my current distro
[19:13] <genoobie> I mean there's probably a convention to it
[19:13] <melodie> /dev/sda1           15G     11G  3,5G  75% /
[19:13] <genoobie> okay, so I can do 400mb for /boot 20GB for / and 15GB for everything else
[19:14] <melodie> I use 11 GB and it's full of apps
[19:14] <genoobie> so you say that "/" gets eaten up pretty quickly
[19:14] <genoobie> okay so I'll go with 20
[19:14] <genoobie> what about "order"?
[19:14] <melodie> genoobie do you really need a separate boot partition ?
[19:14] <genoobie> it was suggested but not really
[19:14] <melodie> order?
[19:14] <genoobie> I don't know why I would or wouldn't to be honest
[19:14] <melodie> swap first if you want and then / and then /home
[19:14] <genoobie> so melodie if I create these partitions
[19:15] <genoobie> ok
[19:15] <melodie> this is not really so important but you can go this way
[19:15] <genoobie> well I'd like / to be sda2 ideall
[19:15] <genoobie> ideally
[19:15] <melodie> you have a separate boot partition when you want to share the boot between several distributions
[19:15] <genoobie> most of the documentation is written that way
[19:15] <genoobie> yeah, I'm not going to do that
[19:15] <melodie> some used to do that when the hard drives where small and they had distros that could use the same kernel
[19:16] <genoobie> so if I want / on sda2, would I start with that first?
[19:16] <melodie> genoobie the /dev/sda2 can  be your / or it could be an extended partition
[19:16] <genoobie> melodie: thanks for this help btw
[19:17] <genoobie> ugh
[19:17] <melodie> you want an extended partition if you will have more than 4 partitions on the hard drive because the hard drives can't have more than 4 primary partitions
[19:17] <melodie> then the first logical partition in an extended partition will be /dev/sda5
[19:17] <genoobie> when I created the partition it's called "/dev/sda5" and the mount point is "/"
[19:17] <melodie> the following will be /dev/sda6
[19:18] <genoobie> so do I want a primary partition for "/"?
[19:18] <melodie> not necessarily
[19:18] <genoobie> well it's going to be "bootable"
[19:18] <genoobie> if that makes any diff
[19:18] <melodie> no
[19:18] <melodie> thats for windows
[19:19] <melodie> Windows needs the boot flag, GNU/Linux doesn't
[19:19] <genoobie> so briefly, what's the point of primary vs. logical
[19:19] <melodie> primary:
[19:19] <melodie> 4 partitions max on a hard drive
[19:19] <melodie> NTFS needs to be on a primary
[19:20] <melodie> you can have:
[19:20] <melodie> /dev/sda1 Ntfs
[19:20] <genoobie> "/dev/sda2 ext4
[19:20] <melodie> /dev/sda1 Ntfs for the user personal Documents
[19:20] <melodie> /dev/sda1 Ntfs
[19:20] <melodie> /dev/sda2 Ntfs for the user personal Documents - if any
[19:21] <melodie> I mean if any separate partition for the Windows personal files
[19:21] <melodie> then you can have whatever you want to
[19:21] <melodie> what I do:
[19:21] <genoobie> so do I create a 40GB primary partition for "/" and 20GB within this for "/home"?
[19:21] <genoobie> or two separate partitions
[19:21] <melodie> I often have a distro which has everything in it in a primary partition
[19:21] <genoobie> each with different mount points
[19:21] <melodie> then from there I can partition the rest without booting a live
[19:22] <melodie> because you can't partition a mounted partition, right? So this is just a tip
[19:22] <genoobie> oh
[19:22] <genoobie> okay so I'll create two separate partitions each with their own mount point
[19:22] <melodie> and if you create an extended partition:
[19:22] <melodie> you can put as many partitions you want in it
[19:23] <melodie> suppose you want one just to put your video and audio files in it, you could do that and mount it to a directory of your choice
[19:23] <genoobie> so there's no advantage to having a "primary partition" as it were
[19:23] <melodie> it's really very flexible
[19:23] <genoobie> I need a good book
[19:23] <genoobie> but to get started
[19:23] <melodie> yes, to get started:
[19:24] <melodie> do one primary partition for your /, one extended partition for swap and /home and keep an empty space after the extended partition for future needs or tests
[19:24] <melodie> then you can switch method any time according to your wishes
[19:25] <genoobie> that's where I am just a bit confused
[19:25] <melodie> make that last primary partition as large or a little more than the partition for the /
[19:25] <melodie> hard drive:
[19:25] <melodie> a scheme
[19:25] <genoobie> so I am making a primary partition 20GB for "/"
[19:25] <genoobie> that's already done and in my table
[19:26] <genoobie> the next partition I want to create is for swap and /home?
[19:26] <melodie> [---Ntfs primary---][--- system / primary ---][extended → a partition for swap | a partition for /home--][--primary for future use--]
[19:26] <genoobie> that would be a single logical partition?
[19:26] <melodie> does that scheme help ?
[19:26] <genoobie> yeah, just need to understand that in gparted
[19:27] <melodie> genoobie ok
[19:27] <genoobie> so okay, so I have /dev/sda5 as ext4 and a mountpoint of /home
[19:27] <melodie> you will take for granted that one extended partition is seen by the hard drive controller as a primary partition
[19:27] <genoobie> now i create a swap partition
[19:28] <melodie> genoobie I let you manage your thing now. ;)
[19:29] <genoobie> so I have /dev/sda1 ntfs
[19:29] <genoobie> I have /dev/sda2 for /
[19:29] <genoobie> I have /dev/sda5 for /home
[19:29] <genoobie> and finally /dev/sda6 for /swap
[19:29] <genoobie> and finally /dev/sda6 for swap
[19:30] <genoobie> then there's 75GB "free space"
[19:30] <genoobie> for whatever I wish
[19:30] <genoobie> in theory, when I upgrade to the next lubuntu, I only need to play with "/"
[19:31] <melodie> you will have to tell it that /dev/sda5 is your /home
[19:31] <melodie> and not to format it
[19:31] <genoobie> right
[19:32] <melodie> is the 75 GB space in the extended partition or after it?
[19:32] <genoobie> and boot loader goes to "/dev/sda"
[19:32] <genoobie> after
[19:32] <genoobie> it's just called "free space" after the swap
[19:33] <melodie> yes, you can put the boot loader to /dev/sda : which has for name MBR, Master Boot Record
[19:33] <melodie> in Gparted you can see the two logical partitions wrapped into another color which represents the space containing the extended partition
[19:34] <melodie> usually light blue
[19:36] <genoobie> well it looks like it's on the move
[19:36] <melodie> :)
[19:36] <genoobie> I'm going to have 3 separate users
[19:36] <genoobie> me and my two children
[19:36] <melodie> ok
[19:36] <melodie> very good
[19:36] <genoobie> btw thanks again for the hand holding :)
[19:37] <melodie> you are welcome
[19:37] <melodie> how old are your children?
[19:37] <genoobie> 10
[19:37] <genoobie> twins
[19:37] <melodie> good
[19:37] <genoobie> windows is such a bear to maintain
[19:37] <melodie> are you going to install edu software for them?
[19:37] <genoobie> yes
[19:38] <melodie> :)
[19:38] <genoobie> hopefully they'll install it themselves
[19:38] <melodie> I have done some edu versions in another distro a pair of years ago, I 'll try to do a ubuntu openbox with the same setup before Christmas
[19:38] <genoobie> I am trying to phase out winxp
[19:38] <melodie> they should not install it themselves, you should give them a hand
[19:39] <genoobie> right
[19:39] <melodie> you can look at a list I used
[19:39] <genoobie> much as you are helping me
[19:39] <melodie> http://meylodie.wordpress.com/2011/12/26/pclinuxos-education-en-2
[19:40] <melodie> look at the "Highlighted Applications" list particularly
[19:40] <melodie> get the same in your install and you can start having fun with the children
[19:41] <melodie> other games are fun too, such as pingus, supertux, supertuxkart ...
[19:41] <melodie> frozen bubble...
[19:41] <melodie> :D
[19:41] <genoobie> will do
[19:42] <genoobie> hey
[19:42] <melodie> :)
[19:42] <melodie> have fun!
[19:42] <genoobie> now I am booted into lubuntu
[19:42] <genoobie> I don't see that my wireless is working
[19:42] <melodie> now I'm leaving ;)
[19:42] <melodie> see you
[19:42] <genoobie> okay
[19:42] <genoobie> thanks again!
[19:42] <melodie> welcome again!
[19:43] <genoobie> should I give them "admin"
[19:46] <genoobie> hey
[19:46] <genoobie> trying to get my wireless working
[19:58] <genoobie> hello again
[19:58] <genoobie> well I used lspi
[19:58] <genoobie> and there is "broadcom bcm4318" being reported by lspi
[19:59] <genoobie> but ifconfig doesn't show an interface
[19:59] <genoobie> so I need a driver I think
[20:01] <Unit193> !bcm | genoobie
[20:04] <genoobie> thanks, reading it now
[20:06] <genoobie> Unit193: problem is the machine doesn't presently have internet access
[20:06] <genoobie> but I have a computer that does with USB transfer
[20:06] <genoobie> i mean using a flash drive
[20:06] <genoobie> so how do I get the "driver" onto the USB then installed onto the lubuntu machine
[20:07] <Unit193> Has an offline section, I've followed that a while back.
[20:08] <genoobie> thanks
[20:13] <kristal> It looks like Lubuntu is going to end up better than xubuntu at the rate it's going..... xubuntu hasn't changed much the past few years.
[20:26] <kristal> "Julien Lavergne announced in June 2013 that Lubuntu 13.10 will ship with Firefox as its default browser in place of Chromium."  Whooo muh freedoms.
[20:31] <austin> Hi #Lubuntu, When I "sudo apt-get install wine1.7" i get the following error regarding unmet dependencies http://paste.ubuntu.com/6142822. I'm stumped, can anyone help?
[20:31] <phillw> !wine | austin
[20:32] <austin> Thanks phill, apologies
[20:33] <phillw> austin: no need to apologise, just that we don't have too much experience with it. I can say that  the advice I've picked up over time is to always use the latest version, if in only beta.
[20:33] <kristal> In the future wine is getting a huge performance boost. :)
[20:33] <phillw> *even if it is beta*
[20:33] <kristal> Wine is perpetually beta/alpha :P
[20:35] <phillw> they do have stable releases, but the cutting edge one seems to be recommened one. i always suggest http://www.winehq.org/
[20:35] <austin> Agreed, I'm quite new to IRC and didnt realise there's a channel for the majority of subjects
[20:35] <kristal> Ironically stable is never as good as the latest... except for when there's a regression...
[20:35] <kristal> You kinda need 2 wines for everything to work, playonlinux or wahtever can manage that.
[20:37] <phillw> austin: all feel free to pop in here and ask, we are being abrupt when we get the details from the bot, it's just faster than us typing it all in :D
[20:37] <phillw> *we are NOT being*... drat.. dyslexic fingers again :D
[20:37] <austin> I understand :)
[20:37] <kristal> #lubuntu doesn't rage being OT like some channels :P
[20:38] <austin> Thats good to hear, when i saw the error i was worried about the grief i might get by asking
[20:38] <austin> x joined
[20:38] <austin> x asks question
[20:38] <austin> x gets answer
[20:38] <austin> x has left
[20:38] <phillw> austin: if you ever want just a chat, we do have an O/T channel. #lubuntu-offtopic
[20:39] <austin> ok, i'll keep quiet and join that channel ty phill
[20:39] <kristal> #lubuntu on the other hand rages when things are not minimal, muh screen space, muh rams
[20:39] <phillw> lubuntu prides itself on being friendly :)
[20:40] <kristal> Also being faster.
[20:41] <kristal> Too bad steam box isn't using lxde due to no "corporate support" :(
[20:42] <kristal> They're using gnome or unity from te looks of it... but they mention Qt support as well.
[20:42] <kristal> unity is using qt in the future isn't it
[20:44] <phillw> kristal: I don't know what unity is using, but lxde is moving gradually to Qt. It's a lot of work!
[21:26] <kristal> Soo... lxde and razorqt merging to become lxde-qt... when lubuntu becomes qt based It'd be interesting to see the theme change to give hommage to razor... perhaps a background with a sword jabbed into the ubuntu/lubuntu logo. :P
[21:31] <kristal> All the other ubuntus are becoming too big to fit on CD :(
[21:42] <kristal> It's funny how firefox uses more cpu but chrome uses more ram... firefox has tons of addons, mmm addons, and firefox phone!
[22:04] <melodie> brb
[22:10] <phillw> kristal: only lubuntu is committed to CD size for 13.10
[22:49] <Noskcaj> phillw, and netboot ;)
[22:49] <austin> brb
[22:50] <melodie> hi
[22:51] <Noskcaj> hello melodie
[22:51] <kristal> It'd be interesting if Lubuntu has hardly any preinstaled software, so you'd have a small live disk to downlaod and install, and once installed a "pick your XYZ" UI comes up, you check the things you want, they install, bam, super friendly customization.
[22:51] <melodie> hello Noskcaj
[22:52] <melodie> kristal you can do almost the same with Ubuntu Mini Remix
[22:52] <kristal> melodie: Yup, but I bet lubuntu can do it better :)
[22:52] <Noskcaj> kristal, That is netboot
[22:52] <kristal> net is too minimal for typical users imo
[22:52] <melodie> kristal then from there you can install the lubuntu-desktop meta package
[22:53] <melodie> kristal you have only a few packages missing, and I can give that list to you
[22:53] <Noskcaj> kristal, MOst users don't want to "pick and chose", they want it already there. If you want more choice/lightness uninstall things or use netboot
[22:54] <melodie> Noskcaj quite true also
[22:55] <kristal> sad because it's true...
[22:55] <kristal> although even casuals argue over FF/Chrome :P
[23:07] <melodie> kristal if you want to annoy them, tell them about Midori !
[23:07] <melodie> ^^
[23:08] <kristal> It's a good browser, but FF has muh addons.
[23:08] <melodie> kristal anyway you can't say Lubuntu has lots of programs installed for the user, it's quite minimal
[23:09] <kristal> Going from Chroms to Firefox makes sense when you see the browser stats, it's by far the most popular so people were mostly switching that as soon as they installed.
[23:10] <kristal> And ya, very little preinstalled, which is good, faster dl/install/imaging
[23:15] <melodie> I would like to have htop and mesa-utils added in it
[23:17] <kristal> Ya why the hell isn't htop on, it's kinda a defacto standard, everyone uses it... as for mesa-utils... that's very not mainstream, although I use it too.
[23:19] <kristal> AMD;s new GPUs are coming out, brace for wave of cheap awesome-o 7000 cards on sale.
[23:23] <kristal> That feeling when you realize LTS is much older than Debian Stable right now... 14 LTS can't come soon enough.
[23:27] <phillw> melodie: kristal As lubuntu is facing reducing the number of language packs, adding in things like htop etc only eats up disk space. For as long as lubuntu is committed to a CD sized ISO, they will keep things 'small'. :)
[23:28] <kristal> Well... I see lots of space being used by artwork... could slim down that.
[23:28] <kristal> Better compression and symlinking redundant things.
[23:28] <phillw> kristal: the amount of space used for the artwork is very small.
[23:29] <kristal> How about the sounds? Recycle and dump some wav for oggs
[23:30] <phillw> we do not have sounds, such as startup sounds... we dropped them long ago :)
[23:30] <kristal> Hmm... perhaps it's a bad idea looking at my install after I added stuff... gonna mount a fresh image
[23:31] <phillw> kristal: indeed :) We do keep it very lean :)
[23:31] <kristal> Too bad you can't use 7zip for higher compression. :P
[23:32] <kristal> The poor image server... all the cpu power needed for that :P
[23:32] <kristal> How tight for space are you? I could hunt around for some stuff on the daily live.
[23:37] <phillw> kristal: the beta1 manifest can be viewed at http://ftp.leg.uct.ac.za/pub/linux/ubuntu-dvd/lubuntu/releases/13.10/beta-1/lubuntu-13.10-beta1-desktop-amd64.manifest It is also on a lp area, I just don't have that link to hand :)
[23:37] <kristal> man languages eat a lot
[23:40] <phillw> yup, but essential as we are multi-language in our developers. Julien will only countence removing one if all else has failed.
[23:40] <kristal> Some of the graphics drivers are to cards soo old they would be in computers too old to run lubuntu... :-/
[23:40] <melodie> phillw I'm sure I could find stuff to remove to make space for htop and mesa-utils ;)
[23:40] <phillw> melodie: more likely ant room would be used to add in the lang packs we've sacrificed.
[23:41] <melodie> phillw no chance, that would be too space greedy
[23:41] <melodie> I can have a look in my vbox now
[23:41] <phillw> But, all this is for 14.04, and should be pointed to the brainstorming area.
[23:41] <kristal> xserver-xorg-video- Is wasting space, some of those drivers don't work properly and are from the early 1990's
[23:42] <kristal> well, the cards themselves are
[23:42] <melodie> kristal not that kind of packages
[23:42] <melodie> they are very important
[23:42] <melodie> and not very space greedy btw
[23:43] <kristal> Something like xserver-xorg-video-cirrus which is one of the oldest is used in VMs, so you need to keep that... but xserver-xorg-video-trident is basically broken.
[23:43] <melodie> which ones of these drivers don't work well?
[23:43] <melodie> oh so
[23:43] <melodie> but this won't save much space
[23:43] <kristal> lol a not much
[23:45] <kristal> Some of the software's art wastes space but you'd have to do alternates which is a pain to maintain unless you asked the person making the software to make a change.
[23:46] <phillw> kristal: IMHO?.. drop desktop installer and just use alternate... we use sooo much space on a pretty installer that is used once and never again :D
[23:47] <melodie> language-pack-gnome-de-base and other language-pack-gnome might be avoided
[23:47] <phillw> but, I'm a server person :D
[23:47] <kristal> Instead of dropping it, it can be shrunk a ton.
[23:47] <kristal> German is a popular lang
[23:47] <melodie> phillw kristal I have been used to test removal for making spinoffs
[23:48] <melodie> kristal it's not use to have it in the live because it is added during install time
[23:48] <melodie> unless the people aren't connected to internet, which is a bit difficult to deal with anyhow now
[23:48] <kristal> popularity-contest	1.57ubuntu1
[23:48] <kristal> hahaha, does anyone use this?
[23:49] <melodie> and I don't say just about this one, but the other gnome-language packs are already there
[23:49] <melodie> kristal it's better to have it, for the stats when people are ok to use it
[23:49] <phillw> this chat would be better suited in #ubuntu-offtopic No alterations to 13.10 can  now be made, you are discussing changes for 14.04
[23:50] <kristal> Ya 13.10 is in stone, and is working well btw
[23:51] <melodie> phillw whatever
[23:51] <melodie> improvements for next next is not that far ahead
[23:51] <kristal> ubuntu-ot woulnd't like us talking about lubuntu changes...
[23:52] <melodie> languages: german, french, portuguese, spanish : that makes many times 10 to 16 MB
[23:52] <melodie> this is worth considering
[23:52] <melodie> kristal +1
[23:52] <kristal> melodie: We agreed on leaving languages to the very end
[23:52] <melodie> they would not
[23:52] <melodie> kristal which means? (not english native)
[23:52] <phillw> kristal: melodie head to #lubuntu-offtopic and I will be happy to discuss further....
[23:52] <melodie> ok
[23:53] <kristal> phillw: Sure