[00:48] <genoobie> hey
[00:48] <genoobie> my lubuntu keeps freezing
[00:49] <genoobie> it's a fresh install
[00:49] <ianorlin> are you using anything in particular when it freezes?
[00:49] <genoobie> I know how to diag xp fairly well but not linux systems
[00:49] <genoobie> any tips?
[00:49] <genoobie> yeah, seems like chromium has been open both times
[00:50] <genoobie> it will start with not responding to mouse clicks
[00:50] <genoobie> then the mouse stops moving / disappears
[00:50] <ianorlin> will it still respond on the keyboard?
[00:50] <genoobie> ianorlin, no
[00:50] <genoobie> then I tried ctrl+alt+del
[00:50] <genoobie> and the screen goes black
[00:50] <phillw> genoobie: yeah, we have seen issues with chromium,
[00:50] <ianorlin> which opens lxtask
[00:50] <genoobie> no, lxtask doesn't appear to open
[00:51] <genoobie> phillw, that's too bad.
[00:51] <phillw> Menu --> Accessories --> LXTerminak
[00:51] <genoobie> okay
[00:51] <phillw> sudo apt-get install firefox
[00:52] <genoobie> iirc ff didn't play well with flash
[00:52] <phillw> in 13.10 we are reverting to firefox and dropping chromium
[00:52] <genoobie> hm
[00:52] <genoobie> any other good lightweight browser?
[00:52] <genoobie> that plays well with flash?
[00:52] <phillw> genoobie: ffox has been on a diet, I have no issues with flash
[00:53] <Unit193> "Plays well with flash" can you define that?
[00:53] <genoobie> I remember that I installed FF a while ago and games / videos wouldn't load
[00:53] <phillw> genoobie: try the new version.
[00:54] <genoobie> phillw, that sudo apt-get will give the new version right?
[00:54] <Unit193> Flash has always worked for me, except when it crashes, but that's not really browser based. :P
[00:54] <genoobie> okay
[00:54] <genoobie> I guess I remember it didn't load at all
[00:54] <Unit193> And speaking of crashing flash. :D
[00:54] <genoobie> well, I am at 91% at the sudo cmd
[00:55] <phillw> genoobie: it will pull in the one from the repo. if there is a newer version, ffox will let you know.
[00:55] <genoobie> to keep things clean, I want to uninstall chrome
[00:55] <phillw> sudo apt-get -purge chromium
[00:56] <phillw> Unit193: is that correct? ^^
[00:56] <Unit193> Not quite.
[00:56] <ianorlin> chromium-browser I think
[00:59] <phillw> Ahh... you cannot remove chromium until you have another browser installed.... lubuntu will just keep trying to find a browser.
[01:00] <genii> A web browser shouldn't be a prerequisite
[01:01] <genii> Like, what if I want no gui web browser and just run links2 or something on command-line?
[01:02] <Unit193> genii: www-browser, yeah.
[01:02] <phillw> genii: go have a read of http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=15791 and then follow the thread further so as to learn just how dependancies are a royal pain in the neck :D
[01:03]  * phillw off to my alcove :) Take care everyone.
[01:03] <genoobie> okay FF installed
[01:03] <genoobie> seems solid
[01:07] <genoobie> CL option "-p" not know
[01:07] <genoobie> not known
[01:11] <genoobie> okay
[01:11] <genoobie> when I sudo apt-get purge chromium-browser
[01:11] <genoobie> there's a bunch of other things it wants to remove
[01:11] <genoobie> chromium-codecs-ffmpeg
[01:12] <genoobie> and lubuntu-desktop
[01:12] <genoobie> that seems "bad"
[01:12] <genii> *buntu-desktop are virtual packages
[01:12] <genii> eg: It won't remove your lubuntu
[01:13] <genoobie> oh
[01:13] <genoobie> that codecs-ffmpeg won't mess with anything either?
[01:13] <Unit193> It's for chromium.
[01:16] <genoobie> sweet, very nice
[01:22] <genoobie> hey all
[01:22] <genoobie> stupid me
[01:22] <genoobie> I uninstalled chromium-browser
[01:22] <genoobie> but the machine locked up in FF
[01:22] <kristal> if you're locking up it's probally hardware related
[01:23] <genoobie> kristal
[01:23] <genoobie> I don't know much about linux
[01:23] <genoobie> I hit ctrl-alt-del
[01:23] <genoobie> screen went black
[01:23] <genoobie> then I pushed "F1"
[01:23] <genoobie> I dunno
[01:23] <genoobie> so it said something like "failed to idle channel"
[01:23] <genoobie> GPU Lockup
[01:24] <kristal> what gpu do you have and which drivers you using
[01:24] <genoobie> now it says nouveau E[ 1031] failed to idle channel 0xcccc00001
[01:24] <kristal> nouveau, welp, that's nvidia
[01:24] <genoobie> NMI: PCI system error (serr) for reason a1 on CPU 0.
[01:24] <genoobie> dazed and confused but trying to continue
[01:25] <kristal> either your gpu is screwing up or the graphics drivers are bad
[01:25] <genoobie> now the GPU works fine in winxp
[01:25] <kristal> what gpu is it?
[01:25] <genoobie> kristal: what do I "do" from here
[01:25] <genoobie> i.e. is the computer responsive at all?
[01:26] <genoobie> are there other keys I can hit to proceed?
[01:26] <genoobie> F2?
[01:26] <kristal> did you try installing graphics drivers before it did this?
[01:26] <genoobie> no
[01:26] <genoobie> just after a fresh install
[01:26] <kristal> do you still have console access?
[01:26] <genoobie> but the lockup doesn't happen right away
[01:27] <genoobie> kristal: how will I know if I have console access?
[01:27] <genoobie> what keystroke?
[01:27] <kristal> ctrl alt f3 f4 f5 etc
[01:27] <genoobie> there's nope
[01:27] <genoobie> no response
[01:27] <genoobie> hard power off?
[01:27] <kristal> might as well
[01:28]  * ianorlin doesn't know any way around it
[01:28] <kristal> still wanting to know waht gpu you have
[01:28] <genoobie> geforce 6800
[01:28] <kristal> Well, the open source drivers should run fine on that... that was a card prone to overheating
[01:29] <genoobie> like I said, fine in xp
[01:30] <genoobie> I do notice that booting up the display flickers black bars across the screen a bit
[01:30] <genoobie> any diag tips?
[01:30] <kristal> that's not a good sign
[01:30] <genoobie> I will say too
[01:30] <kristal> in windows what temp does nvidia's control panel say it's running at under load?
[01:30] <genoobie> kristal, that's interesting
[01:31] <kristal> I've noticed with linux, GPUs are either rock stable or very unstable, you don't get the in-between like windows
[01:31] <genoobie> I dunno if there's a temp in the control panel
[01:31] <genoobie> will linux have a "temp" for the GPU?
[01:31] <genoobie> should I boot into windows?
[01:32] <kristal> Getting temp with ati is easy... I forgot how to with nvidia. :-/
[01:32] <genoobie> brb
[01:33] <kristal> nvidia-settings does temp
[01:33] <genoobie> is that in linux?
[01:33] <kristal> ya
[01:33] <kristal> also lmsensors probally can get temp of cpu and gpu
[01:33] <genoobie> so sudo apt-get nvidia-settings?
[01:33] <kristal> ya, you can find it in synaptic too
[01:34] <qingluo> hi all, i'm writing a script to do some work on background. but the mount command will triger a remind window on desktop. how can i disable this?
[01:35] <genoobie> so there are a few nvidia-settings
[01:35] <genoobie> are those different versions?
[01:36] <genoobie> -304, -310
[01:36] <genoobie> should I just get nvidia-settings?
[01:37] <genoobie> kristal, what do you think
[01:39] <kristal> 310, old but still much newer
[01:39] <genoobie> hrm
[01:39] <genoobie> looking at an arch-linux wiki
[01:40] <genoobie> they say "nvidia-304" for geforce 6/7 cards
[01:40] <genoobie> but that's arch
[01:40] <kristal> For old cards i just use ope source drivers, xorg-edgers
[01:41] <genoobie> hrm
[01:41] <genoobie> not sure what to "install"
[01:41] <genoobie> real newb here
[01:41] <kristal> https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa
[01:41] <kristal> Best drivers for all cards imo
[01:42] <kristal> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:xorg-edgers/ppa
[01:42] <kristal> sudo apt-get update
[01:42] <kristal> then upgrade
[01:42] <kristal> when you upgrade it'll replace your old stock drivers with new-old drivers
[01:43] <genoobie> what if that makes it worse
[01:43] <genoobie> :)
[01:43] <genoobie> how do you "reverse" that install
[01:43] <kristal> can i get much worse?
[01:43] <genoobie> yes
[01:43] <kristal> if you wanted to reverse you can jsut delete the repo in synaptic
[01:43] <genoobie> because right now it works "sometiems"
[01:43] <genoobie> yeah, not sure how to do that
[01:44] <kristal> synaptic package manger = app libraty with 40'000 programs you can add/remove/upgrade
[01:44] <kristal> as well as repo control
[01:44] <genoobie> okay
[01:44] <genoobie> so why do you need "repo control"
[01:45] <kristal> repo control lets you pick the sources of your software
[01:45] <genoobie> why would the sources matter?
[01:45] <genoobie> you mean bins?
[01:45] <kristal> speed, and diferent version of things
[01:46] <genoobie> you don't always want the latest version?
[01:46] <kristal> generally there's stable and testion versions
[01:46] <kristal> testing*
[01:46] <genoobie> so I am using 13.04
[01:46] <genoobie> ringtail
[01:47] <kristal> one great example of repos is wine... ubuntu's repos has wine 1.4, old, stable, can't do much, slow, but doesn't screw up
[01:47] <kristal> wine's PPA has wine 1.7, which is much faster, hell I can run skyrim jsut fine on linux
[01:47] <genoobie> oh
[01:47] <kristal> not completely stable, but removes my need for windows for GAHMEN
[01:48] <genoobie> PPA?
[01:48] <genoobie> GAHMEM?
[01:48] <kristal> PPA is atype of repo
[01:48] <kristal> GAHMAN/GAYMENS = games
[01:49] <kristal> Wine also useful for photoshoop... although I use krita/mypaint/gimp nowadays
[01:49] <genoobie> oaky
[01:49] <kristal> synaptic is your friend, browse the games section, lots of great free games
[01:50] <genoobie> well, I went to a flash games site (where it crashed last time)
[01:50] <genoobie> seems to be fine now
[01:50] <genoobie> intermittent failure?
[01:50] <genoobie> probably GPU temp
[01:51] <kristal> flash is awful
[01:54] <genoobie> this is was the third time it crashed
[01:54] <genoobie> it seems stable suddenly
[01:55] <genoobie> okay
[01:56] <genoobie> it's beginning to freeze
[01:56] <genoobie> mouse can still be moved
[01:56] <genoobie> windows are unresponsive
[01:56] <genoobie> alt-tab yields nothing
[01:56] <genoobie> kristal: whatis the best diag at the moment
[01:57] <kristal> if graphics aren't screwed up but it's screwing up... memory corruption
[01:57] <genoobie> well
[01:57] <genoobie> how can I determine, I guess
[01:57] <genoobie> is what I am asking
[01:57] <kristal> linux has memtest
[01:57] <kristal> when youreboot there's a memtest option
[01:57] <kristal> it'll test your ram's stability
[01:57] <genoobie> so what should I do at the moment
[01:57] <ianorlin> yes memtest
[01:57] <genoobie> (if anything) to diag
[01:58] <genoobie> my guess is memtest will yield 0 results (again because XP is stable)
[01:58] <genoobie> so I have to think that because XP is working fine
[01:58] <genoobie> there must be a driver issue
[01:58] <genoobie> can I be sure from the symptoms that the video driver is the likely culprit?
[01:59] <kristal> linux is failsafe, if something screws up it'll lock or panic instead of letting garbage data go by
[01:59] <genoobie> okay
[02:00] <genoobie> uh-oh screen just went black
[02:00] <kristal> i'd test hardware stability, if it's good, then you probally just need a specific driver to work your your gpu which may not be a reference
[02:00] <kristal> although it does not sound good...
[02:00] <genoobie> well
[02:00] <genoobie> like I said, hardware works OK with xp
[02:00] <genoobie> that may mean nothing though...
[02:01] <genoobie> how do I "test" these scenarios
[02:01] <kristal> well memtest to start with
[02:01] <kristal> then test cpu and gpu, check temps
[02:01] <genoobie> like a "complete"test?
[02:01] <genoobie> there's 3GB
[02:01] <kristal> if your parts are running over their max stable temp you'll get lockups
[02:02] <genoobie> you mean lock-ups in memtest?
[02:02] <kristal> memtest doesn't lock up very easily, it'll generally report errors
[02:02] <genoobie> okay so suppose memtest passes
[02:02] <genoobie> then what?
[02:03] <kristal> depends on results
[02:03] <genoobie> well, aren't there just two scenarios?  Pass / Fail?
[02:03] <kristal> if you fail, it's probally from a bad stick
[02:03] <genoobie> okay, so I am saying, suppose the memtest passes
[02:03] <kristal> if you lock, may be unstable cpu
[02:04] <kristal> pass means different problem
[02:04] <kristal> JUST DO IT
[02:04] <genoobie> right, I am doing it, but I don't want to keep you here
[02:04] <genoobie> it's only at 9%
[02:04] <kristal> if it hits 100 with no errors, that leaves cpu and gpu, ans temps
[02:05] <genoobie> okay
[02:05] <genoobie> can the fact that XP runs in a stable fashion be used to eliminate factors?
[02:06] <genoobie> or does that yield no information
[02:06] <kristal> not really, xp will chug along on unstable systems, it's not made to gaurntee god data like server
[02:06] <genoobie> like a linux system
[02:06] <genoobie> gotcha
[02:07] <genoobie> I have a feeling that memtest will yield no results
[02:07] <kristal> I have linux systems with 1+ year uptimes, Linux is either extremely stable or extremely unstable, it's meant to have no fuzzy in-between
[02:08] <genoobie> yeah, that's why I installed it.
[02:08] <kristal> which is what windows is famous for :P
[02:08] <kristal> did you install xorg-edgers?
[02:08] <genoobie> no, not yet (memtest)
[02:09] <genoobie> so after I check memory that brings me back to nvidia-settings,nvidia-settings-304,nvidia-settings-310
[02:09] <kristal> well if memtest passes i'd do that incase there's a driver issue, they're the best drivers so naturally you want them either way
[02:09] <genoobie> okay one more time
[02:09] <genoobie> what would I be "installing"
[02:10] <kristal> you'd be adding a repo which contains the best graphics drivers/libs
[02:10] <genoobie> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:xorg-edgers/ppa [21:42] <kristal> sudo apt-get update
[02:10] <genoobie> once this happens, then what?
[02:10] <genoobie> I'm only at 27%
[02:10] <kristal> run upgrade too
[02:10] <genoobie> ??
[02:10] <kristal> man your ram is slow, is it PC133?
[02:11] <kristal> apt-get upgrade after update
[02:11] <genoobie> DDR2 200
[02:11] <genoobie> yes, slow
[02:11] <kristal> in memtest the clock is the actual clock, so you have ddr-400
[02:11] <kristal> AMD or intel?
[02:12] <genoobie> so, sudo add-apt-repository ppa:xorg-edgers/ppa && sudo apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
[02:12] <genoobie> that will take care of the driver?
[02:12] <genoobie> intel
[02:12] <genoobie> p4
[02:12] <genoobie> 3.4GHz
[02:12] <genoobie> probably 2006 vintage
[02:14] <kristal> oh god don't say it's a presshot P4
[02:14] <genoobie> be back in like 5 min I have to reboot this other windows machine that I am chatting on
[02:14] <kristal> pentium 4's are famous for running hot which makes them unstable
[02:14] <genoobie> will that command that I posted take care of the driver?
[02:15] <genoobie> it doesn't seem like it
[02:15] <genoobie> seems like something is missing, like a modprobe or something
[02:15] <kristal> you'll use a better version of the stock one
[02:15] <kristal> also more driver options
[02:15] <genoobie> yeah, but more options for me (a newb) is harder to understand
[02:16] <genoobie> but I'm kind of figuring it out with your help.  Thanks btw
[02:16] <kristal> well you'll want the newest nouveau or the newest nvidia-xxx
[02:16] <genoobie> yes, how will I "choose"
[02:16] <genoobie> how will I know what my options are?
[02:16] <kristal> synaptic is the easiest way
[02:16] <genoobie> okay
[02:17] <genoobie> only 45%
[02:17] <genoobie> okay brb
[02:17] <genoobie> 2 minutes
[02:21] <genoobie> kristal: you still here?
[02:21] <kristal> ya
[02:22] <genoobie> so once "apt-get upgrade" is run
[02:22] <genoobie> that will give access to a bunch of binaries that are more current
[02:22] <kristal> if that alone doesn't solve the problem, i'd check temps
[02:22] <genoobie> correct?
[02:22] <kristal> yup
[02:22] <genoobie> so to recap
[02:23] <genoobie> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:xorg-edgers/ppa && sudo apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
[02:23] <genoobie> but I don't get where the new driver gets applied
[02:23] <kristal> yup
[02:23] <kristal> when you add a repo with newer something than your current something it will upgrade by default
[02:24] <genoobie> oh, i C
[02:24] <genoobie> but if the driver is the incorrect one (an unlikely scenario) then this won't help
[02:24] <genoobie> I mean lspci showed geforce 6800
[02:24] <genoobie> which is correct.
[02:25] <genoobie> I don't know if there are multiple geforce 6800 drivers
[02:25] <kristal> if the driver was wrong you'd default to vesa-mode, generally... or cli mode...
[02:25] <kristal> there's a couple
[02:25] <kristal> Hell, with my ATi card I have 5 driver options.
[02:25] <genoobie> how do I know I have the right one?
[02:25] <genoobie> christ
[02:25] <kristal> unstable fast, slow stable, old old old
[02:26] <kristal> good thing you're running lubuntu, ubuntu is kinda huge for a P4
[02:26] <genoobie> kristal: yeah, I was considering xubuntu
[02:27] <kristal> xubuntu is nice too
[02:27] <genoobie> lubuntu seemed a little faster / customizable
[02:27] <kristal> although lubuntu seems to have a more advanced future
[02:27] <kristal> lubuntu can be modded to hell
[02:27] <genoobie> I installed it on a CQ50
[02:28] <genoobie> ran 11 for like two years
[02:28] <kristal> C2Q?
[02:28] <genoobie> few probs
[02:28] <genoobie> compaq cq50
[02:28] <kristal> ah
[02:28] <genoobie> so gradually I am migrating all the PC's to lubuntu / xp dual boot
[02:28] <genoobie> with the hope of eventually abandoning XP
[02:29] <genoobie> which means I need some skill with lubuntu / win
[02:29] <genoobie> win
[02:29] <genoobie> wine
[02:29] <kristal> Wine lets you run a ton of XP software... XP support is being cut so no more XP.
[02:29] <genoobie> yes, but XP wasn't a bad OS
[02:29] <kristal> Wine is pretty simple, you jsut run a windows exe/installer with wine and it'll run prety normally
[02:29] <genoobie> probably the best one windows ever made
[02:29] <kristal> 7 is a lot better... 8.... ehh...
[02:29] <genoobie> but it's old and prone to infection (I have kids that trash the OS regularly)
[02:30] <genoobie> win7 probably won't run on this older hardware
[02:30] <genoobie> and I would think win7 is probably prone to infection like xp
[02:30] <genoobie> thus requiring maintenance
[02:30] <kristal> Win7 nees at least 2GB ram... it could run on your P4, but slow
[02:30] <genoobie> that's the part I am trying to get away from
[02:30] <genoobie> the maintenance
[02:30] <genoobie> I want to set up machine
[02:34] <kristal> i wonder what state the power supply is in after so many years, a quality one can last ages but a bad one degrades after 4-6 years
[02:38] <genoobie> kristal
[02:38] <genoobie> kristal: memtest passes
[02:38] <genoobie> yay!
[02:38] <genoobie> BSOD on this windows laptop
[02:38] <ianorlin> yay BSOD?
[02:39] <kristal> I haven't seen a bsod in over a year...
[02:44] <genoobie> haven't seen one in a while
[02:44] <genoobie> apparently there's some kind of wireless card issue
[02:45] <genoobie> so I need to install the latest driver for the wireless card
[02:45] <genoobie> but back to this
[02:45] <genoobie> (I'm going to have to disconnect for a minute probably)
[02:49] <genoobie_> kristal: still here?
[02:51] <genoobie_> hello?
[02:57] <genoobie_> hello...
[02:58] <kristal> i was watching explosions on youtube
[03:03] <genoobie> hey
[03:03] <genoobie> I am back...
[03:03] <genoobie> I am finishing apt-get upgrade
[03:03] <kristal> no you're not, you never left
[03:03] <genoobie> heh
[03:03] <genoobie> Well, I had to disconnect b/c of the wireless card driver update on this xp machine
[03:06] <genoobie> brb again
[03:15] <genoobie> kristal:
[03:15] <genoobie> I rebooted after the update
[03:15] <genoobie> how do I know that I have the latest "driver"
[03:15] <genoobie> it "looks" the same
[03:15] <genoobie> now to check nvidia settings
[03:16] <genoobie> okay
[03:16] <genoobie> I can reproduce the crash pretty reliably
[03:16] <genoobie> if I go to "www.newgrounds.com"
[03:17] <genoobie> I can move the mouse
[03:17] <genoobie> but then the rest is toast
[03:31] <kristal> flash is killing the graphics drivers?
[03:32] <kristal> >newgrounds
[03:32] <genoobie> as soon as I go to newgrounds it locks up
[03:32] <genoobie> GPU lockup switching to sftware fbcon
[03:33] <genoobie> failed to idle channel 0xcccc0001
[03:34] <genoobie> kristal: not flash, because if I go to another site like armor games that uses flash, there's no prob
[03:35] <genoobie> there's still a flicker as I log in and as I boot up
[03:37] <kristal> in synaptic there's a list fo drivers that'll work with your gpu in settings
[03:38] <genoobie> okay
[03:38] <genoobie> so I started up synaptic
[03:38] <genoobie> where am I looking?
[03:39] <kristal> settings/sources etc
[03:39] <genoobie> within synaptic?
[03:39] <kristal> ya...
[03:40] <genoobie> ugh
[03:40] <genoobie> I can't find where within settings that I should see optional drivers
[03:42] <genoobie> wait
[03:42] <genoobie> ugh
[03:46] <genoobie> crap
[03:46] <genoobie> I see there is a problem in "software and updates"
[03:48] <genoobie> okay
[03:48] <genoobie> bedtime
[03:48] <genoobie> bb tomorrow
[03:48] <genoobie> thanks again for all the help
[05:16] <R0b0t1`> I keep getting kernel panics. Doesn't seem to be much pattern with them.
[05:17] <R0b0t1`> First one was with GPU, but all the other ones have been from various unrelated places.
[05:17] <Myrtti> have you checked memtest, fdisk and smartmontools?
[05:18] <R0b0t1`> I will memtest on next panic
[05:19] <R0b0t1`> the disk is fine though
[05:33] <R0b0t1`> I'm wanting to sandbox development of something under a different user. Will GUI programs show up under my WM? How do I start the user with an encrypted /home?
[05:48] <manik_> helli
[05:52] <manik_> why does the OS go back to the default wallpaper after a reboot?
[06:29] <R0b0t1`> manik_, I am having issues with desktop settings in general
[06:29] <manik_> how
[06:30] <R0b0t1`> BG setting, size options
[06:30] <R0b0t1`> etc
[06:30] <R0b0t1`> I think it is the same as yours
[06:30] <manik_> yeah...
[14:07] <leszek> hu
[15:05] <yenal> hi .. how can I uninstall plymouth under Lubuntu 12.04 x86_64 ..plymouth-dummy and replacing  mountall + cryptsetup  from ppa:dtl131/mediahacks doesnt work it still wants to remove lightdm, lubuntu-core and co
[15:26] <yenal> does nobody has any idea how to solve this?
[17:44] <melodie> hi all
[17:44] <melodie> gnu birthday !
[17:44] <melodie> http://gnu-birthday.eu.org/
[17:44] <melodie> join us with your comments!
[20:58] <kristal> Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ==> WARNING There are known problems with these drives,
[20:59] <kristal> 5 years old still no failure lol
[21:22] <kristal> I'd like to report a flaw in Lubunut for people living in cold places... the lack of power wasted means my room is colder than when using Unity. lol
[21:22] <kristal> My graphics card is idling at 18w instead of 40w lol
[21:37] <kristal> LXDE/GNOME/KDE all going wayland... MATE/XFCE... uhh... welp.