[06:21] <ochosi> has anyone else noticed that appfinder seems to open really slowly in 13.10?
[06:22] <ochosi> (i'm just wondering whether it has to do with some dev packages i use atm or whether it's a general 13.10 issue)
[07:28] <olbi> hi guys
[07:28] <olbi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/1230123
[07:28] <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1230123 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "software-center crashed after installing software" [Undecided,New]
[07:29] <olbi> changed package :P
[07:38] <elfy> "What could it be?" usc is rubbish? :)
[07:39] <elfy> USC should be a link to synaptic :p
[07:39] <elfy> symlink ... 
[07:41] <elfy> olbi: there's a pretty good chance that it's a dupe 
[07:43] <olbi> :P
[07:56] <ali1234> ochosi: what is appfinder?
[07:56] <ochosi> ali1234: xfce4-appfinder can be used as an applauncher
[07:56] <ochosi> an advanced xfrun4
[07:57] <ali1234> it opens instantly for me when i run it from the terminal
[07:57] <ochosi> (in fact the functionality of xfrun4 was merged into appfinder)
[07:57] <ochosi> m, ok, i was afraid it would be something in my installation
[07:57] <ali1234> that would make a nice start menu
[07:58] <elfy> are there problems with it?
[07:58] <ochosi> elfy: it starts with a 8sec delay here
[07:58] <elfy> immediate here
[07:59] <ochosi> ali1234: yeah, there were plans for making that a start-menu
[07:59] <ochosi> ali1234: actually whisker-menu does that job now
[07:59] <ali1234> never heard of that either
[07:59] <ali1234> i probably wouldn't use these things anyway
[08:00] <ochosi> me neither, but it could be useful for the average user
[08:01] <elfy> bbl
[08:45] <andrzejr> ali1234, a while ago I tried converting/extending appfinder into start menu
[08:46] <andrzejr> it failed because you (apparently) cannot have an embedded object in a menu
[08:47] <andrzejr> other solution would be to modify appfinder internals to popup a menu and communicate with a panel plugin via dbus - but that was a too big change to be accepted
[08:48] <andrzejr> gtg
[09:05] <brainwash> ochosi: bug 1048805
[09:05] <ubottu> bug 1048805 in xfce4-appfinder (Ubuntu) "xfrun4 launches very slowly" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1048805
[09:07] <ochosi> right, that looks a bit like it
[09:07] <ochosi> got to check what exactly in the session changed
[09:08] <brainwash> kinda an old bug.. I did not expect it to be still around
[09:10] <brainwash> maybe you have applied the workaround before, but it got reverted by upgrading to 13.10
[09:10] <ochosi> no, never applied any workaround
[09:11] <ochosi> the workaround is only to modify the keyboard-shortcut and that wouldn't be touched on upgrading
[09:11] <brainwash> I'll test it on my test system later
[09:11] <brainwash> was thinking about the .desktop file
[09:12] <ochosi> ah, hm
[09:12] <ochosi> well i'll apply that workaround now, because i really wanna use appfinder :)
[09:13] <brainwash> and it did work without delay in 13.04?
[09:13] <ochosi> yeah, iirc it even worked in 13.10 without a delay until shortly
[09:14] <brainwash> wow, that's odd
[09:14] <ochosi> indeed
[09:20] <brainwash_> it opens instantly here
[09:20] <brainwash_> even without the workaround
=== brainwash_ is now known as brainwash
[09:24] <ochosi> thanks for checking brainwash 
[09:32] <knome> ochosi, was there a bug for the slow logout?
[09:32] <knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1310Beta2Release
[09:32] <ochosi> yes, one sec
[09:32] <brainwash> bug 1227212
[09:32] <ubottu> bug 1227212 in upstart "Session logout takes too long" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227212
[09:33] <brainwash> :D
[09:33] <knome> feel free to add anything you think is appropriate to that pad
[09:33] <ochosi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/1227212
[09:33] <ochosi> arr
[09:33] <ochosi> too slow
[09:33] <ochosi> i guess i should file a bug against me now...
[09:35] <brainwash> still no comment from the upstart author :/
[09:38] <brainwash> should this one also get added to the list bug 1226509 ?
[09:38] <ubottu> bug 1226509 in systemd (Ubuntu) "lightdm_get_can_restart returns false in Ubuntu Saucy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1226509
[09:38] <ochosi> yeah, i'd say so
[09:38] <ochosi> no reply from robert on that one yet
[09:39] <brainwash> btw I added systemd to the list of affected packages, still wondering why the rules for reboot and shutdown differ
[09:39] <knome> what's the user-facing bug description on that?
[09:41] <ochosi> no restart-option in the greeter
[09:42] <ochosi> g2g, prolly bbl
[09:48] <knome> elfy, i set up http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1310Beta2Release, feel free to extend as you see fit :9
=== smartboyhw_ is now known as smartboyhw
[11:38] <knome> elfy, actually, i need to get out now, but see the pad; that should be a good start, and we can work on it together later
=== meetingology` is now known as meetingology
=== ubott2 is now known as ubottu
[13:07] <OvenWerks> ochosi: appfinder took two seconds the fist time and maybe 1/4 second the next few times
[15:01] <elfy> back - later than anticipated :|
[15:18] <elfy> knome: added some to the pad
[15:18] <brainwash> the printer applet does not show up in the panel?
[15:19] <brainwash> same for update notifier
[15:20] <ochosi> those two should end up in the indicator-plugin
[15:21] <elfy> hi brainwash ochosi 
[15:21] <ochosi> hey elfy 
[15:21] <brainwash> hi elfy 
[15:21] <brainwash> ochosi: so they should work?
[15:21] <ochosi> dunno, i've disabled update-notifications and i don't have a printer to test...
[15:22] <elfy> is update notifier actaully working at all? 
[15:22] <ochosi> but yeah, in 13.04 they're shown as indicators
[15:22] <ochosi> i'm not quite sure these have fallback-trayicons
[15:22] <elfy> I've not seen it at all 
[15:22] <ochosi> well, that's fun then
[15:23] <elfy> but update manager stopped for ages as well - that's back lately, notifier is apparently running
[15:23] <brainwash> I needed to print some pages (first time since saucy upgrade) and the printer indicator didn't show up.. do I change the application and hit <print> again.. went to the printer and now I got to tons of printed pages
[15:24] <ochosi> :]
[15:24] <ochosi> well that clearly sucks
[15:24] <elfy> default icon set is darker? 
[15:24] <ochosi> yup
[15:25] <elfy> k - set it to that for the moment then
[15:25] <brainwash> python /usr/share/system-config-printer/applet.py
[15:27] <elfy> brb
[15:27] <brainwash> so it's likely that these indicators have been converted to gtk3 ones too, or?
[15:28] <ochosi> no, afaik they didn't use separate indicator-plugins, but indicator-application-gtk2
[15:28] <ochosi> it's possible that they broke support for the gtk2 version
[15:30] <elfy> so - update manager starts with available updates - nothing in indicator panel though
[15:32] <ochosi> hm
[15:32] <elfy> seem to have an odd 'indicator sized blank' at the end of the indicator panel 
[15:32] <ochosi> did you deactivate the notifications maybe?
[15:32] <ochosi> can you click that blank?
[15:32] <elfy> not that I know off - I leave notifications on - use it for other things - though I have moved it 
[15:32] <ochosi> so wait, to sum this up: the only indicator that's still working with gtk2 is the network-manager?
[15:33] <elfy> no - not clickable - rather can right click and get ind panel menu
[15:33] <elfy> ochosi: not sure - I've got the ones I did from git here
[15:33] <elfy> just remembered that ... 
[15:33] <ochosi> so you're using gtk3?
[15:33] <elfy> yea
[15:34] <elfy> sorry - for the confusion
[15:34] <ochosi> oh
[15:34] <ochosi> what about you brainwash ?
[15:34] <ochosi> gtk2 or gtk3?
[15:34] <brainwash> default saucy one
[15:34] <ochosi> (maybe the updates-notifications are generally broken, wouldn't surprise me this cycle)
[15:35] <brainwash> elfy: and the printer applet? also hidden?
[15:35] <elfy> no printer to check with
[15:35] <brainwash> print to pdf
[15:35] <brainwash> via cups
[15:35] <elfy> no applet - but this is gtk3
[15:36] <elfy> I'll boot a vm from the b2 iso
[15:38] <brainwash> and saucy broke my preferred print size (or maybe I messed up at some point), A4 is cut of on top/bottom
[15:39] <elfy> nothing showing there
[15:40] <ochosi> brainwash: it's probably set to US Letter
[15:48] <brainwash> maybe I should also install gnome or unity
[15:51] <brainwash> but actually, aren't you running unity in one of your various vms?
[15:52] <elfy> who?
[15:52] <brainwash> you
[15:52] <ochosi> :)
[15:52] <brainwash> the testing guy :P
[15:52] <elfy> no - I did have one then got rid of it ;)
[15:53] <ochosi> i'm always tempted to give gnome3 another shot for realz
[15:53]  * ochosi hides
[15:53] <brainwash> yea, gnome 3.10 looks really promising
[15:53] <elfy> I can set one up easily enough
[15:53] <elfy> depends if this has been fixed or not :p "ubiquity needs to be updated for the new indicators"
[15:54] <xnox> elfy: hm?
[15:54] <brainwash> isn't ubiquity the installer?
[15:54] <elfy> yea 
[15:54] <elfy> anyway - I'll download it and install it I guess
[15:54] <ochosi> what does that mean though?
[15:54] <elfy> no idea ochosi 
[15:54] <ochosi> ubiquity doesn't really use the indicators afaik
[15:54] <ochosi> xnox: ^ ?
[15:55] <ali1234> ubiquity is just the install wizard
[15:55]  * xnox just asked elfy what is meant by "to be updated for the new indicators"?!
[15:55] <elfy> title of a bug
[15:56] <xnox> elfy: bug 1204290 ?
[15:56] <ubottu> bug 1204290 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity needs to be updated for the new indicators" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1204290
[15:56] <xnox> note the fix released.
[15:57] <ali1234> ah... does it put something into the indicator panel?
[15:58] <elfy> brainwash: ok - it's installing now 
[15:58] <ali1234> like a progress indicator or something?
[15:59] <ali1234> hmm it seems to have it's own indicator container
[16:00] <brainwash> the initial question: why don't the update notifier and printer applet show up in the panel?
[16:01] <ali1234> because you have no printer configured and because xubuntu doesn't install update-notifier by default
[16:01] <ali1234> assuming you are on gtk3/indicator-ng
[16:01] <brainwash> gtk2
[16:01] <ali1234> there is no gtk2 version of printer indicator
[16:02] <brainwash> yes, that makes sense
[16:02] <ali1234> i'm not sure about update notifier actually
[16:02] <ali1234> it's installed here but it never shows up
[16:02] <elfy> "update-notifier is already the newest version"
[16:03] <brainwash> it should be installed by default
[16:03] <ali1234> it even says it is running
[16:03] <elfy> ** (update-notifier:2724): WARNING **: already running?
[16:03] <brainwash> because of some dependency
[16:05] <elfy> ochosi: between the mail indicator and the clementine icon http://imagebin.org/271894
[16:22] <ali1234> that looks like keyboard indicator
[16:49] <brainwash> is there already a website (or template) with the known issues in 13.10
[16:49] <brainwash> like the missing message indicator in previous releases
[16:54] <ochosi> not sure, that kinda stuff usually goes into the release-notes
[16:57] <ochosi> currently those are being compiled here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1310Beta2Release
[16:57] <ochosi> quite the list of known issues already..
[16:57] <ochosi> and a few inconvenient ones, i may add
[17:03] <brainwash> the pad webiste requires u1?
[17:04] <elfy> yep
[17:04] <elfy> or at least the ubuntu one does
[17:05] <Unit193> (It's why I went for another one, kept logging me out. :P )
[17:07] <elfy> brainwash: so after all that hassle ... no print indicator that I Can see in ubuntu
[17:08] <brainwash> elfy: did you open the printer queue? I'm not sure what could trigger the applet, printing to pdf/.. does not count as print job
[17:09] <elfy> well I've got nothing to print to
[17:10] <brainwash> and which panel actually, gtk2/gtk3 or the unity one?
[17:10] <elfy> unity I suppose - it's 2 years since I looked at ubuntu
[17:11] <brainwash> ah screw this, this indicator/applet mess is slowly driving me mad :D
[17:12] <elfy> looking at what ubuntu has is probably not the best method of retaining sanity
[17:14] <elfy> ochosi: I added 6 of those bugs to the pad - knome only had 3 on it 
[17:17] <ochosi> elfy: what are you implying?
[17:17] <Unit193> ISOs being rebuilt?  There was a new ubiquity upload, right?
[17:18] <elfy> ochosi: not implying anything at all - just commenting is all :)
[17:18] <ochosi> ah ok :)
[17:18] <elfy> I'd dragged all the bugs reported on b2 to a list here - there were 16 
[17:18] <elfy> I added the more common or ones I thought people should be aware of :)
[17:19] <elfy> Unit193: no idea 
[17:19] <elfy> probably :p
[17:21] <ochosi> well feel free to add all of them to the notes (imo), we can then decide what gets into the release-notes
[17:22] <elfy> just doing it now actually :)
[17:22] <ochosi> cool
[17:24] <elfy> all done :)
[17:25] <ochosi> hm, human-readable descriptions would be very nice though
[17:26] <elfy> dude - I'm trying to cook dinner too :p
[17:26] <ochosi> hehe
[17:26] <ochosi> sure, no problem
[17:26] <elfy> bowl of cornflakes at this rate lol 
[17:26] <ochosi> :D
[17:45] <brainwash> so after upgrading my launchpad account to a fancy u1 one, I get this here:
[17:45] <brainwash> "Authorization is required to access http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1310Beta2Release"
[17:46] <Unit193> brainwash: Yep, you need to be added to the etherpad group, pleia2 has done that for people in the past.
[17:46] <pleia2> brainwash: what's your launchpad id?
[17:47] <brainwash> https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch
[17:47] <pleia2> done
[17:48] <brainwash> pleia2: great, thanks :)
[17:54] <elfy> as of by magic ... 
[17:59] <elfy> ochosi: is that better :)
[18:04] <ochosi> cool, thanks elfy 
[18:12] <elfy> welcome 
[18:36] <Unit193> Weren't we going to switch to xfce4-datetime-plugin at one point?
[21:55] <Unit193> [17:50:45] queuebot:#ubuntu-release: Builds: Xubuntu Desktop amd64 [Saucy Beta 2] has been updated (20130925.1)
[21:55] <Unit193> [17:50:49] queuebot:#ubuntu-release: Builds: Xubuntu Desktop i386 [Saucy Beta 2] has been updated (20130925.1)
[21:55] <Unit193> Was right! ;P
[23:50] <bluesabre> Unit193: I think we were using xfce4-datetime-plugin at one point, then went back to the other one