[00:35] <rick_h_> the email it burns!
[01:14] <gary_poster> lol
[12:17] <gary_poster> welcome back rick_h_ 
[12:17] <gary_poster> good to have you back. hope you had a good time
[12:19] <bac> gary_poster: on stable and dev ~juju-gui-charmers PPA doesn't have saucy builds.  want a card for that?
[12:20] <gary_poster> bac, sure thank you. high priority has room, and that seems about right.
[12:27] <gary_poster> rick_h_, when you get a chance, please add this to your list of emails to slog through, or similar :-) : http://jujugui.wordpress.com/2013/09/27/bugs-vs-kanban/
[12:28] <gary_poster> rick_h_, that is what we agreed, but we are happy to revisit if you disagree and want to be convincing. :-)
[12:31] <rick_h_> gary_poster: sure thing, I read through that and +1. I think it reads kind of what we had talked about where kanban is committed work and the only 'change' is let's do better to syncing the cards with bugs we've gotten done
[12:31] <gary_poster> ok cool rick_h_ thanks
[12:32] <rick_h_> and yea, good time by all, DC Zoo was awesome. VA mountains are awesome. My own bed is awesome lol
[12:32] <gary_poster> lol great :-)
[12:33] <rick_h_> and the touareg has a 'spirited' side taking us through back mountain passes with > 8 deg grades and emergency runaway truck lanes and fog so thick you can't see the brake lights of a guy 2 car lengths in front of you. 
[12:33] <rick_h_> but she loved powering through those 
[12:34] <gary_poster> lol, sounds fun in a "I hope I don't drive us all off the side of a mountain" kind of way :-)
[12:35] <rick_h_> yea, let's just say my wife wants me to start double checking the GPS the car produces more often
[12:41] <gary_poster> heh, yeah, DC has brought that conversation up for us more than once actually.  DC appears to be an anti-GPS zone
[12:42] <rick_h_> well that part worked well. We got rerouted twice due to traffic conditions. It was crazy, towing a 5,000lb trailer to get the notice "In 1 mile, take the exit on the left" in a 6 lane wide highway
[13:35] <bac> too much vietnamese food?  i type 'make tet' way too often.
[13:39] <gary_poster> hey frankban, running make in the charm on saucy is downloading and trying to build bzrlib, even though I have bzr 2.6.0 installed.  This then fails because I do not have libpython-dev installed, afaict.  Shoudl I install libpython-dev and add that to the charm dependencies, or should the charm not being trying to build bzrlib?
[13:41] <frankban> gary_poster: hi! bzrlib is required by juju-deployer. so, if libpython-dev is not listed in make sysdeps it should be added
[13:41] <gary_poster> frankban, cool, on it, thanks
[13:53] <rick_h_> yay, readthedocs fixed their bzr stuff http://charmworld.readthedocs.org/en/latest/api.html
[13:58] <frankban> guihelp: could anyone please review https://codereview.appspot.com/14125043 ? 1 review + 1 QA. thanks!
[13:59] <gary_poster> jujugui if you are coming to the resolve/retry mtg with luca it is in less than one minute in https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/eeadd54f49162797f746e11bc0adc95c87a0e963
[14:00] <gary_poster> (see your calendar for detaisl)
[14:05] <gary_poster> luca__, you coming?
[14:05] <luca__> just grabbing my charger
[14:05] <luca__> gary_poster: ^
[14:05] <gary_poster> cool
[14:17] <benji> frankban: which file in the GUI has the tests for the deployer integration?
[14:18] <gary_poster> benji, the only gui deployer integration we have so far is from bcsaller
[14:18] <frankban> benji: did not work on the client side deployer support, you might ask ben
[14:18] <gary_poster> and it is on the env
[14:18] <benji> ok; I think I see it now
[14:24] <bac> hey benji can you review https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/charmworld/fix-icons/+merge/188341 ?  it is a critical charmworld fix for broken icons.
[14:24] <benji> bac: I'll look right now.
[14:24] <bac> ty
[14:33] <rick_h_> gary_poster: so I'll update #1229215 with the first step we talked about
[14:33] <_mup_> Bug #1229215: Confusing unit retry/resolve UX <juju-gui:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229215>
[14:38] <gary_poster> awesome thanks rick_h_ 
[14:50] <benji> bac: apparently my "right now" is a little off today; the branch looks good.
[14:50] <bac> thanks benji.  will land and release soon.
[14:58] <gary_poster> frankban, hey.  I'm still having trouble making the charm.  I'm on saucy fwiw, but I think this issues is a chicken and egg problem.  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6175862/  It looks like bzr is trying to build itself, and found a plugin in my .bazaar directory and so tried to include that in docs, but the rvsubmit plugin expected launchpadlib, which exists in my system just fine but has not yet been built in the virtu
[14:58] <gary_poster> alenv (because it needs bzr to be built).  So, it's a loop.  The solution would seem to be to exclude my plugins from the bzr build step.  I don't see an automatic way to do this, so I just plan to move my ~/.bazaar directory aside manually, temporarily.  Agree, or do you have another idea?
[14:58] <bac> abentley: i just had a charmworld MP approved.  lander being tested.
[14:58] <bac> abentley: does it run at :00 ?
[14:59] <abentley> bac: I don't understand.  I'm trying to restore the lander.  AFAIK, it's not running successfully.
[15:00] <bac> abentley: last week you asked to be alerted when we had branches to be landed.  i wasn't aware that the new lander was not working.
[15:00] <abentley> bac: The trigger runs every minute, does that answer your question?
[15:00] <bac> abentley: that does
[15:00] <frankban> gary_poster: looking
[15:01] <gary_poster>  :-P biabfrankban, going to another call
[15:01] <gary_poster>  supposed to be this: frankban, going to another call :-P biab
[15:01] <abentley> bac: Okay, so jcsackett reported problems Friday afternoon.  I tried to fix them, but ended up locking myself out of the instance.
[15:02] <bac> abentley: ok.  please let me know what i should do, if anything, to get my branch merged.  i'm happy to wait a little while but i'd like to do a charmworld release today.
[15:03] <abentley> bac: Run the tests locally, merge into trunk locally, commit and push trunk.
[15:05] <bac> abentley: ok, i understand the manual procedure.  i was asking more if you wanted me to wait to see if the lander would work on my branch.  as i said, i'm happy to do that for a limited amount of time.
[15:05] <abentley> bac: I can't give you an estimate for how long this will take.  The floor keeps collapsing underneath me with every step I take.
[15:06] <bac> ok.  i'll land manually.  good luck abentley.
[15:19] <rick_h_> lol benji you don't like my python docstrings with params? :)
[15:19] <rick_h_> gary_poster: so I think I'm close enough on email atm, if I was sick of email and wanted to code something did you have a place you wanted me to jump into or just grab a bug and go forth?
[15:19] <benji> nope :)
[15:20] <rick_h_> benji: do you displlike it on the js @param business as well or python in particular is buggy?
[15:20] <hazmat> gary_poster, incidentally there are a few bugs around the notifications in the last release.. once you enter the full screen errors you cant go back
[15:20] <gary_poster> rick_h_, "Make bundle token realer": make the bundle token thing actually do the right thing
[15:20] <rick_h_> gary_poster: rgr
[15:20] <gary_poster> hazmat, yeah, thank you, known bug.  for next release (this week) we are simply removing the "all notifications"
[15:21] <benji> rick_h_: I dislike it in JS too, but at least we have tools that actually parse it there, we're not doing anything like that on the Python side.
[15:21] <hazmat> gary_poster, cool
[15:21] <rick_h_> benji: ah, ok.
[15:25] <frankban> gary_poster: make BZR_PLUGIN_PATH='-user' should prevent bzr from importing plugins from HOME.
[15:25] <gary_poster> frankban, ah, nice!  I'll add that to Makefile too
[15:25] <gary_poster> thank you
[15:26] <frankban> gary_poster: yeah, if it works, adding that to the Makefile sounds great, thank you
[15:26] <gary_poster> cool
[15:28] <bac> hey benji i had to fix a ton of pre-existing lint problems in my branch.  could you re-approve https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/charmworld/fix-icons/+merge/188341 ?
[15:29] <benji> bcsaller: hi, are you in?
[15:29] <benji> bac: sure
[15:29] <bac> actually since i'm landing it by hand it doesn't matter
[15:29] <bcsaller> benji: yes
[15:30] <benji> bcsaller: cool, a question about the deployer bits: is it (more or less) finished?  I.e., given a deployer file will it deploy the described services, relations, config, etc.?
[15:31] <bcsaller> benji: It should fire off the env call to an actual backend with the proper data (though that could use more testing) but that call is also implemented in the fakebackend and that will simulate a deploy now
[15:32] <benji> bac: looks good [but man I dislike a couple of the whitespace rules that linter insists upon, especially the two spaces before inline indents; who does that?)
[15:33] <benji> bcsaller: ok.  I'm asking because (in my in-development branch that may well be doing something wrong) I don't get correct results when deploying a bundle using its deployer-formatted description.  I'll look deeper.
[15:33] <hatch> morning
[15:33] <benji> bcsaller: are there any demo deployer files that are known to work that I can reference?
[15:34] <benji> hatch: it seems your jetlag-induced early-bird desires have been defeated
[15:34] <bcsaller> benji: you can export something on the canvas today and re-import that but there is test/data/wp-deployer.yaml as well
[15:34] <benji> bcsaller: cool, thanks
[15:34] <hatch> benji: haha, nah had eye doc appt
[15:34] <benji> ah
[15:35] <hatch> 20/20....like a boss
[15:36] <benji> I was 20/13 the last time I had mine checked, but I'm probably down to 20/20 by now.
[15:36] <abentley> bac: I am ready to try an auto landing.  Will that interfere with you?
[15:36] <bac> abentley: i just pushed mine
[15:37] <bac> abentley: so, no.
[15:37] <abentley> bac: Great.
[15:37] <gary_poster> I'm, like, 20/5000000
[15:37] <hatch> lol
[15:37] <hatch> blind like bat?
[15:37] <gary_poster> contacts work for me because glasses would tilt the earth off its orbit
[15:38] <hatch> rofl
[15:39]  * hatch is gona review/qa frankban's branch
[15:39] <benji> heh
[15:39] <frankban> hatch: thanks
[15:39] <benji> gary_poster: except that your contacts are so thick that you have to take them out to blink
[15:40] <gary_poster> benji, lol, no, I just have callouses under my eyelids... (might not entirely be a joke, not sure... :-P)
[15:41] <hatch> haha
[15:41] <benji> yow
[15:41] <gary_poster> and, yes, yuck :-)
[15:42] <benji> I'll make my millions by inventing eye lube for the overly-thick contact market.
[15:42] <bcsaller> benji: did that file import for you?
[15:43] <benji> bcsaller: I'm just visually comparing it with my data right now, I haven't tried to import it... one sec an I'll try.
[15:46] <benji> bcsaller: "Import Environment Failed"
[15:47] <benji> bcsaller: let me try again on trunk, I may have broken my branch
[15:47] <bcsaller> testing locally, I didn't expect that to fail
[15:49] <abentley> jcsackett: I'm afraid bac landed changes that conflict with yours.  However, once you've fixed the conflicts, I believe jenkins will land your changes.
[15:49] <bcsaller> benji: that did work for me here
[15:50] <benji> bcsaller: it failed on trunk for me too; this is by dragging and dropping the file; are you using some other mechanism to load the file?
[15:50] <Makyo> jujugui call in 10
[15:50] <bcsaller> DnD
[15:50] <benji> hmm
[15:52] <benji> bcsaller: oh!  I figured it out: I had the Charmworld API v3 flag enabled, which apparently causes the failure when importing.  I'll look at figuring out why that breaks import.
[15:52] <bcsaller> benji: ahh, I bet its the change to charm revision searching
[15:52] <benji> I'll keep that in mind.
[15:53] <bac> abentley: does your lander run 'make lint' on charmworld?
[15:54] <abentley> bac: No.
[15:57] <jcsackett> abentley: thanks!
[15:58] <gary_poster> jujugui call in 2
[16:01] <gary_poster> bug 
[16:01] <gary_poster> bug 1220909
[16:01] <_mup_> Bug #1220909: Searching for "rabbit" doesn't return the rabbitmq charm <charmworld:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1220909>
[16:13] <rick_h_> luca__: still around?
[16:13] <luca__> rick_h_: for another 15 mins or so :)
[16:14] <rick_h_> luca__: so I'm working on updating the bundle token to be 'correctish' and I'm looking over assets/etc
[16:14] <luca__> rick_h_: ok
[16:14] <rick_h_> luca__: the one thing I notice is that we have several sizes of the old charm token and curious if there's thought on that on the bundle side?
[16:14] <rick_h_> in particular for the autocomplete/quicksearch results display?
[16:14] <rick_h_> right now I'd imagine they all get the same generic icon + the name of the bundle?
[16:14] <luca__> rick_h_: thats right
[16:15] <rick_h_> luca__: the other thing I've not verified yet is 'related charms' ?
[16:15] <luca__> rick_h_: they only show in the auto-complete if its recommended
[16:15] <rick_h_> there's related bundles I'd assume, but not verified. They also just get the same generic image 
[16:15] <luca__> rick_h_: related charms is "charms within this bundle"
[16:15] <rick_h_> luca__: is that how we treat autcomplete currently? I thought we ditched the idea of search with recommended? /me dbl checks
[16:16] <luca__> rick_h_: it's a list of the charms within the bundle, it includes summary of each service
[16:16] <rick_h_> luca__: it seems odd that I can search for rack and get results but a rack bundle would not because it's not recommended?
[16:16] <luca__> rick_h_: afaik the auto-complete only shows recommended charms
[16:16] <rick_h_> luca__: ok, that's not true atm
[16:16] <luca__> rick_h_: wait wait wait :)
[16:16] <rick_h_> luca__: and since we've been heading down the path of autcomplete being more of a 'quick search' I don't think it should be true
[16:16] <luca__> rick_h_: the auto-complete is the drop down part which shows results as you type
[16:17] <rick_h_> luca__: right
[16:17] <Makyo> hatch, https://codereview.appspot.com/13986043
[16:17] <rick_h_> http://comingsoon.jujucharms.com/
[16:17] <rick_h_> enter 'rack'
[16:17] <hatch> Makyo: thanks will take a look shortly
[16:17] <rick_h_> and see three options, none of which are reviewed charms
[16:17] <Makyo> hatch, cool, thanks.
[16:17] <rick_h_> luca__: ^^
[16:17] <luca__> rick_h_: it should only recommended stuff…I thought it was only showing recommended stuff hehe
[16:17] <rick_h_> luca__: now recommended charms are given a higher 'score' in autocomplete and get showed at the top of the list
[16:18] <luca__> rick_h_: because the add to my canvas in auto-complete is missing
[16:18] <rick_h_> luca__: but with the idea of it being 'quicksearch' vs 'autocomplete' does that idea still hold true?
[16:18] <rick_h_> luca__: true, I need to get that in. I'll try to squeeze it in soon. I might be able to drive-by it. It should be a quick/easy update
[16:19] <luca__> rick_h_: mostly, I can't remember the decision to why it's not just recommended, I think it's like that because we couldn't implement the rest of the UX
[16:20]  * bac lunches
[16:20] <rick_h_> luca__: ok, so bundle tokens in the sidebar will be larger than charm tokens and show the icons below. They'll be a simple icon/name in autocomplete and be the generic icon for now.
[16:20] <luca__> rick_h_: thats fine
[16:20] <rick_h_> so really just the three sizes, sidebar, fullscreen (for now), and autocomplete
[16:20] <luca__> rick_h_: ok
[16:21] <luca__> rick_h_: do you need assets?
[16:21] <rick_h_> luca__: no, I can use the bundle token svg. I think that's the only *asset* needed right now. 
[16:21] <rick_h_> luca__: I'm also noticing the orange 'selected' is moved to the left?
[16:21] <luca__> rick_h_:  ok
[16:21] <luca__> rick_h_:  that is correct
[16:22] <luca__> rick_h_: due to the orange triangle
[16:22] <rick_h_> luca__: ok cool. I think I'm good for now. I'm sure something else will come up. 
[16:22] <rick_h_> luca__: ah, that makes sense
[16:22] <luca__> rick_h_: which you should be implementing soon :D
[16:22] <rick_h_> luca__: glad to be back :P
[16:22] <luca__> rick_h_: /nudge /nudge /wink /wink
[16:22] <luca__> rick_h_: rofl welcome back, you was missed :D
[16:23] <Makyo> bac, I...uh...had other problems with lightweight checkouts.  I may have been lying about what I found.
[16:23]  * Makyo quietly rebuilds dev evn <.<  >.>
[16:23] <bac> Makyo: ok.
[16:24] <gary_poster> frankban, hey https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/fcf9a8c4670d9c371763980ac16e8f3ba7de77b2
[16:24] <gary_poster> oh frankban actually lets go to the meeting one
[16:24] <gary_poster> the next one
[16:24] <frankban> gary_poster: ok joining
[16:24] <gary_poster> frankban, if not clear, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/4dc220a25e4e00a204f48f8e64644c392635a78d
[16:28] <hatch> Makyo: much better :) just qa'ing
[16:35] <hatch> bcsaller: so are you going to tackle the bundle details page or did you want me to take that branch back?
[16:36] <bcsaller> hatch: Oh, feel free, I still have a little time on this one
[16:37] <hatch> ok I'm going to move the visualization integration into a separate card
[16:38] <bcsaller> hatch: there is a different card for that already
[16:38] <hatch> oh ok
[16:38] <hatch> refreshing
[16:47] <Makyo> hatch, thanks! Big diff against trunk, re-qaing before I land.
[16:47] <hatch> Makyo: oh ok yes plz do :)
[16:51] <hatch> rick_h_: do you have a second to explain to me what's going on with this token? I'm trying to find what handles the click event? It doesn't appear to be the container or the token?
[16:52] <rick_h_> hatch: sure thing
[16:59] <rick_h_> bac: can you join us for a sec? https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/59268b0ddde3ebb3799023f43c35e7d5d1a2f80b?hl=en
[17:07] <gary_poster> Makyo, congrats on eagle landing :-)
[17:08] <Makyo> gary_poster, haha, thanks :)  it'll be good to have in the GUI
[17:08] <gary_poster> definitely!
[17:12] <hatch> jujugui does anyone know what a bundle id is?
[17:12] <hatch> http://staging.jujucharms.com/api/3/bundle/~bac/wiki/wiki says ~bac/wiki/3/wiki
[17:12] <hatch> so does that mean there is no reference to the Ubuntu version?
[17:12] <hatch> or that it's a bundle?
[17:13] <gary_poster> hatch currently that would be jc:~bac/wiki/wiki IIRC.  Also, see this page:
[17:14] <gary_poster> http://staging.jujucharms.com/~bac/bundle/wiki/wiki
[17:14] <gary_poster> oh.  apparently it is jc:~bac/wiki/3/wiki  ?
[17:14] <gary_poster> that's a bit odd
[17:14] <gary_poster> since it is against charms
[17:15] <rick_h_> gary_poster: yea, looking at the api to see what charmworld wants for an ID to be passed to locate a charm and get its details
[17:15] <rick_h_> so /api/3/xxx/yyy/zzz
[17:15] <hatch> yeah basically I need to know what the ID is so that I know how to parse it
[17:16] <gary_poster> hatch do you have url for an api 3 search result?  that would probably tell us what we need to know
[17:16] <gary_poster> oh there we go
[17:16] <hatch> http://staging.jujucharms.com/api/3/bundle/~bac/wiki/wiki
[17:17] <rick_h_> gary_poster: do they not have a series info on them?
[17:17] <gary_poster> no rick_h_ there is only one series, bundle.  So here I have something for you
[17:18] <rick_h_> gary_poster: yea, trying to figure out from the api docs http://charmworld.readthedocs.org/en/latest/api.html#terminology to actual calls how things map up to build urls
[17:18] <gary_poster> this is the kind of result you get from a search: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6176395/
[17:18] <gary_poster> e.g. you go to http://staging.jujucharms.com/api/3/search and search for "bac" (don't do this, it loads everything :-P)
[17:19] <rick_h_> gary_poster: right, what's a 'basket' then? Just a grouping so I might have a bunch of bundles in my rharding basket?
[17:19] <gary_poster> rick_h_, basket is deployer file
[17:19] <gary_poster> rick_h_, deployer files can contain multiple bundles
[17:19] <gary_poster> so they decided to call deployer files baskets
[17:19] <rick_h_> so you might have multiple bundles in a single deployer file...ah that starts to fit
[17:20] <rick_h_> ok, so the bundle details view might have multiple bundles in it?
[17:20] <gary_poster> so if you look at ~bac/wiki/3/wiki
[17:20] <rick_h_> or are we only working on one at a time?
[17:20] <gary_poster> ~bac is the owner of course
[17:20] <gary_poster> wiki is the basket
[17:20] <gary_poster> sorry, the first one is.  3 is the basket revision
[17:20] <rick_h_> gary_poster: right, ok. so we're dealing with one at a time. 
[17:20] <gary_poster> and the second "wiki" is the bundle name
[17:20] <gary_poster> yes
[17:20] <hatch> so what should the url be then? on jujucharms.com ?
[17:21] <hatch> jujucharms.com/bundle/~bac/wiki/3/wiki ?
[17:21] <rick_h_> so to ID it we'd need to know it's a bundle, the basket, the owner, the revision, and the name of the bundle in the basket
[17:21] <gary_poster> yeah
[17:23] <gary_poster> rick_h_, both of these work:
[17:23] <gary_poster> http://staging.jujucharms.com/api/3/bundle/~bac/wiki/3/wiki
[17:23] <gary_poster> http://staging.jujucharms.com/api/3/bundle/~bac/wiki/wiki
[17:23] <gary_poster> so if you don't have revision you can get head
[17:24] <rick_h_> gary_poster: right, because rev is HEAD
[17:24] <gary_poster> yeah
[17:25] <abentley> jcsackett: Looks like it landed fine, I'll update the revno now.
[17:25] <jcsackett> abentley: yes; i'm sorry were you waiting for me to confirm?
[17:26] <abentley> jcsackett: No, I was on lunch.
[17:26] <jcsackett> abentley: well ok then. :-)
[17:27] <rick_h_> gary_poster: can you join us then for a sec?
[17:28] <rick_h_> hatch: has a valid question
[17:28] <rick_h_> gary_poster: or not if you're busy :)
[17:28] <hatch> rare...I know
[17:28] <hatch> lol
[17:28] <gary_poster> :-)
[17:28] <rick_h_> or benji or bac if they're free. 
[17:28] <gary_poster> what url rick_h_ 
[17:28] <rick_h_> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/59268b0ddde3ebb3799023f43c35e7d5d1a2f80b?hl=en
[17:40] <rick_h_> gary_poster: are all bundles required to have an owner? e.g. no ~charmers default? Or is that not true
[17:49] <hatch> jujugui I've noticed that the failures for api restarting have lasted a very long time now, do we know if any changes were made to alter that code or is canonistack just being itself?
[17:49] <Makyo> We could just use https://www.google.com/webdesigner/ for the GUI.
[17:50] <hatch> google is making Dreamweaver, what? lol
[17:52] <gary_poster> rick_h_, don't quite understand your question.  ~charmers may own a bundle.  The "promulgated" flag determines whether that bundle is the recommended one, as with charms
[17:52] <gary_poster> hatch that looks like Canonistack to me :-(
[17:52] <gary_poster> either that or juju
[17:53] <gary_poster> but probably canonistack
[17:53] <rick_h_> gary_poster: ok, so having a bundle without a ~owner is legit as it is in the case of a charm. 
[17:53] <gary_poster> rick_h_, oh I see, yes.  promugated.
[17:53] <gary_poster> l
[17:53] <rick_h_> gary_poster: since bundles weren't in LP I wasn't sure how that worked out. If all bundle urls would requie an explicit ~owner
[17:55] <gary_poster> rick_h_, bundles are in LP.  See "Branch" in http://staging.jujucharms.com/~bac/bundle/wiki/wiki for instance
[17:55] <gary_poster> (links to https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/charms/bundles/wiki/bundle)
[17:55]  * gary_poster needs to go to lunch :-)
[17:57]  * gary_poster goes to lunch and a walk
[17:57] <hatch> enjoy!
[17:57] <abentley> bac, jcsackett: I believe Jenkins is fully restored now.  Please ping if you have any problems.
[18:01] <bac> thanks abentley
[18:02] <abentley> bac: np
[18:02] <bac> rick_h_, hatch: have you seen https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/17bgbReU6JJMoUHSJeo8egG5zoSM0fpPIs7U8F1-Piyk/edit
[18:03] <rick_h_> bac: no, good to know
[18:05] <hatch> rick_h_: looks like they do want `bundle` in the url
[18:05] <rick_h_> hatch: so they want it in the charmworld url, doesn't mean we need it in the gui url
[18:06] <hatch> see Actual Example URLS
[18:06] <rick_h_> hatch: so the browser Store object will need to build that correctly
[18:06] <rick_h_> hatch: right, those are all charmworld urls
[18:07] <rick_h_> hatch: staging/manage are charmworld
[18:07] <hatch> no they are on jujucharms.com it says
[18:07] <rick_h_> http://staging.jujucharms.com/ is not the gui
[18:07] <hatch> ohh damn woops I totally didn't even click on that
[18:07] <rick_h_> hatch: ah, I see that there's a GUI url there
[18:07] <hatch> and yeah
[18:07] <hatch> lol
[18:07] <rick_h_> hatch: but I'm sure we can negotiate
[18:08] <rick_h_> hatch: the smaller we can make it the better 
[18:08] <hatch> my issue with these user readable urls is that they aren't really readable at all haha
[18:08] <hatch> they might be 'pretty' but not really readable
[18:08] <hatch> unless of course you know what you are looking for
[18:08] <rick_h_> hatch: well, sharable, twitter, printable on flyer -able
[18:08] <hatch> :)
[18:09] <rick_h_> hatch: but yea, that's been the curse with what we HAVE to have vs what is really human readable
[18:11] <hatch> rick_h_: see (where your cursor is) the valid urls
[18:11] <hatch> (or so I am assuming)
[18:11] <hatch> I don't know if we can do all of those without /bundle/
[18:11] <rick_h_> hatch: just closed it. 
[18:12] <hatch> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/17bgbReU6JJMoUHSJeo8egG5zoSM0fpPIs7U8F1-Piyk/edit#
[18:12] <rick_h_> hatch: calling
[18:17] <rick_h_> bac benji gary_poster so there's a bundle series but it's not part of the id?
[18:18] <benji> rick_h_: are you asking if that is the case or why that is the case?
[18:18] <rick_h_> benji: I guess both. Is this true and intentionally true
[18:19] <bac> the 'series' is part of the id.  it is just always 'bundle'
[18:19] <benji> yes to both
[18:19] <benji> since it will never change, making it part of the ID didn't make much sense
[18:19] <rick_h_> http://staging.jujucharms.com/api/3/bundle/~bac/wiki/wiki series is precise?
[18:19] <bac> ah, i was referring to the url
[18:20] <rick_h_> so can I get a precise and a saucy version of the bundle for bac's wiki?
[18:20] <rick_h_> it would seem no since series isn't part of the url/id?
[18:20] <rick_h_> unlike charms
[18:21] <benji> right, bundles aren't segmented into series
[18:21] <hatch> but they have a series property?
[18:22] <hatch> so you need a new deployer or bundle for different serieses?
[18:23] <benji> I don't know why they would have a series property.  I can't see what it would mean.
[18:23] <hatch> http://staging.jujucharms.com/api/3/bundle/~bac/wiki/wiki
[18:23] <rick_h_> benji: that's our confusion
[18:23] <hatch> it's there?
[18:23] <benji> hatch: define "it" and "there"
[18:23] <hatch> series
[18:23] <hatch> in the result of the api call
[18:24] <benji> hatch: yep, it's returned from the URL you gave
[18:29] <hatch> benji: so bundles DO have a series, but the only way for a user to determine that is not by the ID but by inspecting its details
[18:30] <hatch> an author will need to make different bundles for different series
[18:30] <rick_h_> benji: yea, but you said it makes no sense for bundles to have a revision so it confused us that the api call provided one, yet it's not part of the id to have multiple revisions of the same bundle
[18:30] <benji> I'd say that bundles having a series is a bug.
[18:30] <rick_h_> benji: ok, makes sense now. Thanks for the clear up
[18:31] <hatch> benji: ok so would the author make a new deployer or new bundles for series?
[18:31] <hatch> precise-wordpress, saucy-wordpress etc etc
[18:31] <bcsaller> are we sure bundles are limited to a series?
[18:31] <bcsaller> I'm not
[18:32] <hatch> well the parts in it are
[18:32] <hatch> so if you're using 'precise' charms the bundle only works on precise
[18:32] <hatch> well
[18:33] <benji> hatch: it would depend on their goal; I wouldn't be surprised if some name them according to series
[18:33] <bcsaller> hatch: a bundle is more than one charm, they might not all be the same series, maybe LTS with the DB but new series for some new appserver
[18:33] <benji> that makes me wonder if juju supports mixed series environments
[18:34] <hatch> bcsaller: right - but is that supported?
[18:34] <bcsaller> I thought it did
[18:34] <bcsaller> we can check on another channel, but we did used to be able to do this
[18:35] <hatch> benji: is the charm api going to match the bundle one at some point? re the revision being /3/ instead of -3 ?
[18:35] <rick_h_> bcsaller: yea, I don't think anything stops it. It's just confusing and as benji says can be considered a bug
[18:35] <rick_h_> bcsaller: the charms define what series they are in their definitinos and can be corss series, though I'm not sure how juju would do with bringing up the 'right' series  images for each charm
[18:35] <benji> hatch: I'm not aware of any plans to do that.  I'm also not aware of the difference being intentional, but I would suspect it was.  
[18:35] <bcsaller> bundles can include a default series to resolve charms from, but they can include explicit charm urls as well 
[18:36] <rick_h_> bcsaller: but urls incldue the series. It's never optional
[18:36] <benji> ah, so "series" is really "default charm series"
[18:36] <bcsaller> rick_h_: it used to be, but maybe not anymore 
[18:36] <bcsaller> rick_h_: and what if they say -HEAD
[18:36] <bcsaller> I guess that would still have series though
[18:37] <hatch> then you're cray-cray
[18:37] <hatch> but yeah :)
[18:37] <bcsaller> really? package.json says things like that 
[18:37] <rick_h_> bcsaller: so revision is different. We have allowed that to be ignored, -HEAD, or an int
[18:37] <hatch> bcsaller: I know - and I wish that they would delete every module without locked down deps from npm :)
[18:38] <bcsaller> hatch: and maybe for packages that makes sense, but charms are configuration and runtime flow around packages and usually not a specific version but any in that series
[18:38] <bcsaller> and so the newest is usually expected to be the best one
[18:39] <hatch> well that's the same everywhere but that's not always the case
[18:40] <hatch> buut anyways - as long as Juju can deploy each charm to the proper series that's alright
[18:40] <hatch> not sure how it'll know which one to deploy on the providers
[18:41] <hatch> but I'm sure there is an answer for that
[19:06] <gary_poster> the charm is for a series
[19:07] <hatch> gary_poster: right, but if a bundle contains charms for multiple series does Juju handle deploying it to the proper series?
[19:07] <gary_poster> hatch, yes.
[19:08] <hatch> that's pretty coooooool
[19:08] <gary_poster> :-)
[19:17] <BradCrittenden> benji: for a bundle to be 'featured' it must first be promulgated, right?
[19:18] <benji> bac: that is my understanding
[19:18] <bac> benji: and what's the process for marking it promulgated?
[19:19] <benji> bac: If I recall correctly, there is none. :/
[19:19] <bac> \o/
[19:19] <bac> well, my work here is done
[19:19] <bac> benji: ok, so i'll write a killer test and we'll just hope it works in real life
[19:19] <benji> heh
[19:24] <hatch> rick_h_: do you remember where the app makes the XHR request to get the charm data?
[19:24] <rick_h_> hatch: that's all in the Store object. 
[19:24] <rick_h_> hatch: the Store is theonly thing allowed to make calls to charmworld
[19:25] <hatch> ok because this is what I have right now https://manage.jujucharms.com/api/3/charm/bundle/~bac/wiki/3/wiki
[19:25] <hatch> so I need to make the 'charm' part optional
[19:25] <rick_h_> hatch: so api3 should already provide the calls
[19:25] <rick_h_> hatch: just a matter of getting it the data
[19:26] <rick_h_> hatch: actually, don't see bundle calls, so maybe it needs a new call for bundle vs charm()
[19:26] <gary_poster> benji, bac, to make a charm promulgated, you log onto charm world as a charmer and you have the ability to bless a charm.  I would guess it is the same for bundles.  There is a UX for that now for charms.
[19:27] <rick_h_> gary_poster: that's for 'featured' but not promulgated. I thought that was part of the LP/branch process?
[19:27] <gary_poster> I don't know whether it exists for bundles. Do you all?
[19:28] <hatch> who chose the word promulgated? lol
[19:28] <gary_poster> rick_h_, I may be confused then.  I don't know what promulgated means then.  bac, benji, I think this is something to clarify with Rick and/or Orange squad.
[19:28] <rick_h_> gary_poster: yea, abentley do you know what the rules are for promulgated and bundles?
[19:28] <rick_h_> gary_poster: originally, any charm owned by ~charmers was promulgated
[19:29] <rick_h_> and the UI is to feature things which show up in the featured section on the front page
[19:29] <rick_h_> then the promulgation rules changed so that the juju gui charm could be 'reviewed' even though ~charmers didn't own it
[19:29] <rick_h_> I'm not sure how that was implemented in the end
[19:30] <gary_poster> rick_h_, oh and by featured you mean added to the list of editorially gardened featured charms
[19:30] <abentley> rick_h_: I believe the charms in any basket that's linked to a series are considered promulgated.
[19:30] <rick_h_> gary_poster: correct
[19:30] <abentley> rick_h_: s/charms/bundles/
[19:30] <rick_h_> gary_poster: benji bac ^
[19:30] <gary_poster> abentley, rick_h_ how do you link something to a series?
[19:31] <gary_poster> (in this case the bundles series?)
[19:31] <rick_h_> gary_poster: well that gets interesting when bundles don't have a series. Except benji said they did have a series and it was always bundle
[19:31] <gary_poster> right, they do, they have a single static series
[19:31] <rick_h_> so that definition/workings might need some shake down
[19:31] <abentley> gary_poster: I don't know.  sinzui? ^^
[19:31] <rick_h_> might need two? bundle/promulgated?
[19:31] <rick_h_> no sinzui here atm
[19:32] <abentley> rick_h_: No, there's a different between having a series and being linked to it.
[19:32] <rick_h_> I've ping'd sinzui to jump in here for a sec if he's got a minute
[19:32] <rick_h_> abentley: gotcha
[19:32] <abentley> rick_h_: All sourcepackage branches *have* a series, but only one branch is linked to it, typically ~charmers/*/trunk
[19:33] <rick_h_> thanks sinzui 
[19:33] <rick_h_> sinzui: so the question came up about how to mark a bundle as promulgated
[19:33] <sinzui> You don't
[19:34] <rick_h_> sinzui: and abentley mentioned that linking a branch to a series does it currently, and we were wondering how that was done/worked?
[19:34] <rick_h_> currently meaning for charms
[19:34] <abentley> rick_h_: Oh, for charms they use a script.
[19:34] <sinzui> Members of ~charmers can run charm-promulgate to that links a branch to series package in Lp
[19:34] <sinzui> only they can run it.
[19:35] <sinzui> They can also do in the Lp UI, though I doubt they know that
[19:35] <rick_h_> sinzui: ah ok. And is/was there a plan for bundles and this? 
[19:35] <sinzui> yes, though I have not read the script to know if it does something charmy
[19:36] <gary_poster> sinzui, we could ask them to do it via LP for bundles, though, it sounds like?
[19:36] <rick_h_> sinzui: cool, is the script in charmworld src to look at or just handed to someone? e.g. where can we find it? 
[19:37] <sinzui> doesn't look like it enforces trunk
[19:37] <bac> rick_h_: not in charmworld afaict
[19:39] <sinzui> rick_h_, gary_poster, bac: I think they run charm-tools promulgate  -owner-branch lp:~user/charms/bundles/bundle-package/bundle --series bundles
[19:40] <rick_h_> sinzui: ah, part of charm tools. Very cool then. 
[19:40] <gary_poster> cool, thanks sinzui!
[19:41] <sinzui> If it does not work, I think we can fix the script in a matter of minutes!
[19:49] <bac> thanks sinzui
[20:09] <hatch>  I'm looking for ideas as to what to call a bundle and a charm because 'charmview' is no longer a good name
[20:09] <hatch> chundle? :D
[20:11] <gary_poster> hatch, DeployableView
[20:11] <gary_poster> DeploymentView
[20:11] <bcsaller> BundleView?
[20:11] <gary_poster> It's supposed to handle both IIUC
[20:11] <gary_poster> charms and bundles
[20:12] <hatch> yeah it looks like they might share a lot of the same code
[20:12] <hatch> I'll know once I'm done to be sure
[20:12] <gary_poster> BundleOrCharmView might actually not be as bad as it seems :-)
[20:12] <hatch> haha
[20:12] <hatch> new BundleOrCharmView(yourGuessIsAsGoodAsMine); //mohohahahaha
[20:13] <bcsaller> lol
[20:13] <bcsaller> CharmworldEntityView 
[20:13] <gary_poster> heh
[20:13] <gary_poster> (to the mohahaha etc.)
[20:14] <gary_poster> yeah bcsaller's is nice.  I like the stupid simplicity of BundleOrCharmView though :-)
[20:15] <hatch> yeah but everythign else we do is with big fancy words, like promulgated
[20:15] <bcsaller> or Stack ;)
[20:15] <hatch> so we can't just go lame on this one
[20:15] <hatch> hahaha
[20:15] <hatch> stack
[20:15] <hatch> lol
[20:15] <bcsaller> BundleOrCharmOrStackView ;)
[20:16] <hatch> lol
[20:16] <hatch> CharmworldEntityView sounds good, so does DeployableVIew though
[20:16] <hatch> well I guess I'll see if they do share enough code for it to matter
[20:17] <hatch> we don't need fullscreen views for this bundle view do we?
[20:17] <gary_poster> why wouldn't we hatch?
[20:17] <hatch> oh I thought it was going away
[20:17] <hatch> or not soon enough I guess
[20:17] <gary_poster> hatch yeah it is, but...exactly
[20:21]  * gary_poster updates hoping it doesn't kill his system, prior to restarting
[20:21] <gary_poster> If I never come back, I left a GUI charm branch for Antonio on Launchpad...
[20:22] <gary_poster> ...Jeff can have my horse...
[20:22] <hatch> yusssssss
[20:22] <gary_poster> ...and I leave my six-shooter to Benji...
[20:23] <bac> gary_poster: it looks like the webops have their hands full today and won't get to our charmworld RT.  benji has agreed to shepherd it tomorrow.
[20:23] <gary_poster> ok cool thanks bac.  Have a fantastic vacation!
[20:23] <bac> gary_poster: not done yet
[20:23] <bac> :)
[20:23] <bac> but thanks
[20:23] <gary_poster> bac, oh, ok, I take it back then ;-)
[20:23] <bac> well, just premature
[20:23] <gary_poster> :-)
[20:27] <hatch> it's been put on a 2h setTimeout
[20:30] <hatch> ok so now when you visit localhost:8888/bundle/~bac/wiki/3/wiki/:flags:/charmworldv3/ you get a details page
[20:31] <hatch> as much crap as I give rick_h_ for the browser not making any sense......well no, it still doesn't make any sense
[20:31] <hatch> EHHHH seee what I did there? :P
[20:31] <hatch> kik
[20:31] <hatch> lol
[20:35] <hatch> no...nothing? well I thought it was funny :)
[20:45] <gary_poster> :-P
[20:46]  * gary_poster restarts
[20:57] <hatch> man it's frustrating that bzr doesn't deal with renaming files well
[21:05] <bac> hatch: huh?
[21:07] <hatch> bac: it shows the whole file as a diff instead of a rename
[21:08] <hatch> so you lose all of your 'real' diff
[21:08] <bac> hatch: i think you've done something wrong.  did you use 'bzr mv'?
[21:08] <hatch> bac: no I just renamed the file
[21:08] <bac> even that should work.  put it back and then use 'bzr mv' to rename it.
[21:09] <hatch> ok will try that
[21:10] <bac> hatch: i'm not trying to convert you but generally when you find bzr doing something incredibly stupid then you may have done something where there is a different way that gives expected results.
[21:10] <gary_poster> +1 on all of that fwiw
[21:11] <hatch> re-proposing will see if it works this time
[21:11] <hatch> thanks
[21:11] <hatch> and yeah - you're probably right :)
[21:11] <hatch> the issue is that when you have a git problem, a quick google search solves everything, there just aren't that many q&a's for bzr I guess
[21:11] <hatch> most just point to the docs which don't help if you don't know what's happening :)
[21:12] <hatch> and actually I've seen this rename issue from others so I just assumed that's how it was :D
[21:14] <bac> benji or jujugui: one review of  https://codereview.appspot.com/14151043 please?
[21:14] <hatch> sure
[21:14]  * bac walks dog. will be back later.
[21:15]  * benji is too late.
[21:16] <hatch> bac: done
[21:16] <hatch> bac: doesn't look like that technique worked either https://codereview.appspot.com/14153043 diff is still the whole file
[21:19] <hatch> oh well I'll just update the description to point to where the changes were
[21:21] <bac> hatch: what does bzr diff say on your command line?
[21:22] <hatch> bac: `bzr diff --old ../../trunk | vim - ` shows me the same as what codereview says
[21:22] <hatch> so it must just deal with mv's as delete/create
[21:23] <hatch> instead of rename
[21:23] <bac> Makefile => makefile
[21:23] <bac> renamed:
[21:23] <bac>   Makefile => makefile
[21:23] <bac> [21:23] <bac> er, that's not right
[21:24] <hatch> and the diff shows nothing?
[21:24] <bac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6177338/
[21:25] <hatch> hmm that's odd
[21:25] <hatch> I did the exact same thing
[21:25] <hatch> I'll try reverting it and re-applying
[21:26] <hatch> bzr mv charm.js charmworld.js
[21:28] <hatch> bac:  odly enough https://gist.github.com/hatched/1ed747f2c33ba1a629ba
[21:28] <hatch> the output is very similar to what you said
[21:28] <hatch> s/said/had
[21:28] <hatch> but the diff still shows a full add/delete
[21:28] <gary_poster> that's just how it represents it in the diff, IIRC
[21:29] <gary_poster> I'm running away.  Juju local conquered me again. :-/
[21:29] <gary_poster> ttyl
[21:29] <hatch> gary_poster: ohhh ok I gotcha
[21:29] <hatch> cya
[21:29] <hatch> wow they have some big hardware outside digging up the road, shaking the whole house haha
[21:39] <hatch> rick_h_: hey if you pop your head in here could you take a look at https://codereview.appspot.com/14153043 and let me know if this is on the right track for your impl
[22:43] <rick_h_> hatch: dinner and such atm but will peek later tonight.
[22:43] <hatch> yeah no rush
[23:00] <huwshimi> Morning
[23:22] <hatch> mornin huwshimi
[23:22] <hatch> what's Tuesday like?
[23:23] <huwshimi> hatch: Rainy
[23:23] <hatch> yeah that's what I'm hearing :/