/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/09/30/#ubuntu-community-team.txt

mhall119pleia2: happy birthday02:54
IdleOnejcastro: did you mean to let your ubuntu membership expire?05:28
dholbachgood morning07:27
=== lisettte` is now known as lisettte
=== alourie__ is now known as alourie
popeydpm: mhall119 we hanging out?14:03
dholbachleaving me out ... again - typical!14:09
* dholbach storms out14:10
smartboyhw!14:10
SergioMenesesmorning!14:16
dpmdholbach, this one is for core apps, feel free to join and we'll give you some work items! :P14:24
jonohey dpm15:02
jonohaving some pretty bad networking issues here agfain15:02
jonoordering new ISP today15:02
jonoI am worried a hangout isnt going to work well15:02
dpmjono, np, we can do IRC and then jump into a hangout tomorrow or when the network works well? Or skype?15:03
jonodpm, I think we might need to do IRC15:04
balloonsat least you have options for ISP's jono :-)15:22
popeywhat UI mockup tool do we recommend these days? Still balsamiq? Pencil? Something else?15:24
jonojcastro, dpm, mhall119_, balloons, dpm sorry guys16:18
jonodamn connection16:18
jcastrojono: hey so my idea16:18
jcastrois that mostly the track leads have to do the hard part16:18
jcastroother than the bp's16:18
mhall119_it's only 2013, you'd think ISPs should know what they're doing by now16:18
jcastroso what I was thinking was a while back16:18
jcastrowhen instead of just "hey everyone submit your BPs"16:18
jcastrothere was a discussion on -devel16:19
jcastrowhere there was one thread per topic16:19
jcastroand the community got a chance to toss in ideas in a "looser" way than submitting BPs16:19
jonojcastro, the issue is not ideas I think16:19
jonobut in registering proposed sessions16:19
jonothat a track lead can ack easily16:19
mhall119_another option would be to let people submit sessions via summit, and then the track lead can approve it eithout a BP or as the submitter to register a BP for it16:19
jonoand also not everyone can post to -devel16:20
jonomy inclination here is a review queue in summit16:20
jonopossibly some kind of reddit like queue where people can upvote/downvote sessions based on interest16:20
jonoso it works like this:16:20
jcastrohttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-October/036050.html16:20
jcastrofor example16:20
jono 1. Sarah Bloggs submits session Foo via summit16:20
jcastrojono: yeah so the fact that it's a list is just a detail16:21
jono 2. Sarah promotes the session and people go to the summit page to upvote/downvote16:21
jono 3. On a given date the top 10 sessions are auto-scheduled16:21
mhall119_-1 for auto-scheduled16:21
=== mhall119_ is now known as mhall119
jonothis (a) makes submitting sessions easy and (b) takes care of scheduling16:21
jonomhall119, why not?16:21
mhall119because popular != good16:22
jcastroyeah but that doesn't mean the sessions will be good16:22
dholbachmaybe instead of votes we could make it count RSVPs, to make it a bit more output-based?16:22
mhall119+1 on using RSVP16:22
balloonsthere you go.. how do you define "good" anyway?16:22
mhall119if you want the session to happen, you should be wanting to attend it too16:23
jcastroright16:23
jonooooh I like the RSVP approach16:23
balloonsyes +116:23
dholbachbut even there you could have an unpopular (in terms of measurable interest), but important session16:23
jonobut that is not much different to voting16:23
jcastrootherwise I can make "Make Ubuntu make netflix work" as a popular session, with tons of votes and participants.16:23
jcastroand no one to do the work!16:23
jonobut I think it defines better commitment16:23
mhall119I'm -1 on auto-scheduling just because controversial things tend to get more votes than boring necessary things16:23
jonomhall119, right, but controvertial things still need discussing16:23
mhall119sometimes :)16:24
jonothere is another thing we could do here16:24
balloonsbut even if things autoscheduled you still can add those boring sessions. it doesn't preclude track leads from doing that16:24
jonobase it on RSVPs and prioritize by ubuntu-members16:24
mhall119you can almost assume that the top 2 most voted will be "Get rid of Mir" and "Get rid of Unity"16:24
jcastroI don't understand the problem we are trying to solve16:24
jonojcastro, let me explain:16:24
jcastrodo we WANT more UDS sessions?16:24
balloonsmhall119, if those had concrete plans attached why not?16:24
balloons:-)16:24
jonoright now, scheduling sessions for community members for vUDS is a pain in the ass16:24
jonoand entirely not cleare16:25
mhall119balloons: because it's not going to happen16:25
jcastrobut not really, you can just ask a track lead to schedule your sessions16:25
jonoyou need to know BPs, you need to get it approved, you need to assume a track lead will schedule it16:25
jonothe entire process sucks16:25
mhall119jcastro: some track leads have more time to do that than others16:25
jonowhich means fewer UDS sessions16:25
jonoI want to make (a) submitting sessions easier and (b) make determining good sessions easier16:25
jonojcastro, vUDS sessions should not be based on being friends with track leads16:26
jcastrowell, if we remove the BP requirement that makes it real easy16:26
jcastrojono: but they're not are they?16:26
jcastrowe do a call for sessions weeks in advance16:26
jonojcastro, to a degree they are16:26
jonojcastro, the process is too complicated16:27
jcastronow granted I only get one or two16:27
mhall119my proposal is to use Summit's ability to request a session, make the track leads review it to determine if it needs a BP or not.  If it needs a BP, the track lead can make it or they can as the requester to make it.  But ultimately track leads are responsible for their track's sessions, not a voting system16:27
jonoI have heard lots of feedback about this16:27
jonoI think we need to be able to point people to a specific page where they can submit a session16:27
jonoand we can determine participate in an easy manner too16:27
mhall119jono: we have that in Summit right now, it's just de-activated for UDS16:27
dholbachmhall119, does your proposal require any more coding?16:28
jonomhall119, right16:28
jcastrohttp://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/propose_meeting/16:28
jonoI think the RSVP is cool16:28
mhall119dholbach: no, or minimal16:28
jonoit provides a good way to determine interest16:28
jcastrobut we have all this already, that's why I am confused16:28
jonobut we need some weighting16:28
jonoso random folks don't bias real participation16:28
jonowhich is why ubuntu membership could be useful16:28
mhall119I *think* people can subscribe to proposed meetings, if not we can allow it16:28
balloonsWe used proposed meetings at one point.. some uds a bit ago16:29
dholbachso there'd be a review queue with "most subscribers" at the top?16:29
mhall119it's been used for Linaro Connect too, IIRC16:29
mhall119cjohnston would be able to tell us for sure16:29
mhall119dholbach: we have a review queue for track leads, I don't htink it's sorted atm, but we can do that16:29
dholbachthat sounds like it'd get us most of the way to the goal, no? :)16:30
mhall119yes it does16:30
jonoI gotta run to another meeting, but lets discuss this more this week16:30
balloonsI'm intrigued by the reddit style voting.16:31
jcastroyou could just dump all the sessions into a subreddit via an API?16:34
jcastror/UbuntuUDS16:34
pleia2mhall119: thanks :)17:06
pleia2jcastro: your ubuntu membership expired18:52
jcastrooh? lol!19:11
jcastroshouldn't LP spam me before that happens?19:11
pleia2jcastro: yeah, should have been spamming you for a wek19:12
pleia2week too19:12
pleia2I can readd you if you want19:12
jcastroI only got the one from 13 hours ago19:13
pleia2lovely19:14
jcastroyes if you could readd me that would be awesome. :)19:14
pleia2done19:15
cprofitthey jcastro19:50
jcastroyo yo20:01
jcastrojono: I'm in the hangout20:02
jonojcastro, unfortunately hangouts for me right now are completely screwed20:03
jonomy net connection is lagging20:03
jonoI had to meet with dpm on IRC earlier20:04
jonojcastro, sorry to bump again, but can we try tomorrow or wed?20:04
jcastrojono: nod20:05
jcastroit's a bad hardware day in general for me too20:05
jcastromy main desktop died20:05
jcastrobeen slumming it on my laptop20:05
jonojcastro, sorry, man20:06
jonoI know we have been strapped for time20:06
jonoI promise we will chat soon20:06
bkerensajono: is someone on your team working on the community website these days? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community-website/+bug/118689720:09
bkerensastill trying to get that bug fixed months later20:09
jonobkerensa, yes we take care of it when we have time20:09
jonodholbach coordinates it20:09
bkerensajono: well the bug expired and pleia2 and I provided all the feedback we possibly could20:11
jonobkerensa, I understand this20:11
jonobkerensa, this is not a bug, it is an opinion20:11
jonoand right now we are in release crunch so it is not a priority20:11
jonowe will get to it when we can20:11
bkerensajono: perhaps it might be easier if the community maintained the community site? My understanding is the reasoning behind the transition was so delays like this did not exist and it could be more community driven.20:15
jonobkerensa, the community are welcome to provide input and participate in the site20:15
jonoand we tried over a number of UDSs, but people signed up and most didnt do the work20:15
jonohence it lives with dholbach20:15
bkerensajono: actually lyz and I both provided feedback about this before and now after in the form of a bug20:16
bkerensaas did others20:16
bkerensaso it was kind of ignored as feedback which is why a bug was filed20:16
jonobkerensa, feedback is welcomed20:16
jonobut as I just posted, I personally don't consider this a bug20:16
jonoit is an editorial discussion20:16
jonowhich is an important discussion to have20:16
jonoand I think we need a place to have those discussions20:17
jonomaybe a mailing list or something20:17
jonobut I would prefer if we keep the bug tracker focused on bugs (e.g. broken pages, broken links)20:17
jonobkerensa, this is not a case of us "ignoring" feedback, but simply that everyone is in release crunch right now20:17
jonofor arguably one of our biggest releases due to the new phone form factor20:18
bkerensawas everyone in release crunch four months ago when community feedback was solicited before the site was launched?20:18
jonono20:18
jonoand there was lots of discussion and feedback around the site20:18
mhall119man, printer setup on Ubuntu can be dead simple these days, it's awesome22:07
pleia2haha, yeah, I tried to install a printer in windows the other day and gave up and emailed myself the .pdf to print22:09
pleia2still awful22:09
mhall119Pendulum: happy birtday to you too22:11
Pendulummhall119: thank you!22:20
ejathappy birthday Pendulum  :)22:21
bkerensamhall119: The work being done upstream to make the printer setup happen is great and so many printers are seeing support thanks to Gutenprint22:28
bkerensamhall119: now just to wait till next cycle for iwlwifi-next :)22:30
josePendulum: happy birthday, Pen!22:33
Pendulumjose, ejat: thanks!22:40
josehope to see you again soon22:40
josewas nice to meet in California22:40
bkerensaPendulum: happy birthday!22:47
bkerensajose: are you going to FLISOL in 14?22:50
josebkerensa: actually, flisol is local22:51
bkerensajose: FLISOL Bogota22:51
josewhy should I, if I have FLISOL Lima?22:51
bkerensajose: to see sergio ofc :)22:51
bkerensaand me22:51
joseI may go to ubuconla, but not flisol bogota22:52
josethere's no reason to spend +$700 when I can spend $1022:52
bkerensa:)22:52
Pendulumbkerensa: thanks :)22:53
bkerensajose: well hopefully Peru can be in 2015 :) I am planning to get to Latin America22:54
jonomhall119, hey22:54
josesure22:54
jonoany more info on the wordpress blogging thing?22:54
mhall119jono: the plugin we have puts them all into the Posts table, so I'll need to create a new template to display just those coming from the aggregator22:59
mhall119and then a new page that uses that template to display them22:59
jonomhall119, right23:01
jonomhall119, ok, we would associate someone's RSS feed with the site...23:02
jonoand then those posts would appear as posts on the d.u.c  blog?23:02
mhall119jono: we have two options, both require about the same amount of work23:48
mhall1191) Have a separate page that has a planet-style aggregation of 3rd party developer feeds23:49
mhall1192) Mix 3rd party posts with developer.u.c posts in /blog/23:49
jonomhall119, I would prefer (1)23:50
mhall119that was my plan too23:50
jonothen we can keep the main blog for official news and announcements23:50
mhall119yup23:50
jonomhall119, so does this mean every post that is aggregated gets its own comments too?23:50
mhall119it could, but I think we could just link to the original too, I'd have too dig into it a bit more to know for sure though23:51

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