[02:54] <mhall119> pleia2: happy birthday
[05:28] <IdleOne> jcastro: did you mean to let your ubuntu membership expire?
[07:27] <dholbach> good morning
[14:03] <popey> dpm: mhall119 we hanging out?
[14:09] <dholbach> leaving me out ... again - typical!
[14:10]  * dholbach storms out
[14:10] <smartboyhw> !
[14:16] <SergioMeneses> morning!
[14:24] <dpm> dholbach, this one is for core apps, feel free to join and we'll give you some work items! :P
[15:02] <jono> hey dpm
[15:02] <jono> having some pretty bad networking issues here agfain
[15:02] <jono> ordering new ISP today
[15:02] <jono> I am worried a hangout isnt going to work well
[15:03] <dpm> jono, np, we can do IRC and then jump into a hangout tomorrow or when the network works well? Or skype?
[15:04] <jono> dpm, I think we might need to do IRC
[15:22] <balloons> at least you have options for ISP's jono :-)
[15:24] <popey> what UI mockup tool do we recommend these days? Still balsamiq? Pencil? Something else?
[16:18] <jono> jcastro, dpm, mhall119_, balloons, dpm sorry guys
[16:18] <jono> damn connection
[16:18] <jcastro> jono: hey so my idea
[16:18] <jcastro> is that mostly the track leads have to do the hard part
[16:18] <jcastro> other than the bp's
[16:18] <mhall119_> it's only 2013, you'd think ISPs should know what they're doing by now
[16:18] <jcastro> so what I was thinking was a while back
[16:18] <jcastro> when instead of just "hey everyone submit your BPs"
[16:19] <jcastro> there was a discussion on -devel
[16:19] <jcastro> where there was one thread per topic
[16:19] <jcastro> and the community got a chance to toss in ideas in a "looser" way than submitting BPs
[16:19] <jono> jcastro, the issue is not ideas I think
[16:19] <jono> but in registering proposed sessions
[16:19] <jono> that a track lead can ack easily
[16:19] <mhall119_> another option would be to let people submit sessions via summit, and then the track lead can approve it eithout a BP or as the submitter to register a BP for it
[16:20] <jono> and also not everyone can post to -devel
[16:20] <jono> my inclination here is a review queue in summit
[16:20] <jono> possibly some kind of reddit like queue where people can upvote/downvote sessions based on interest
[16:20] <jono> so it works like this:
[16:20] <jcastro> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-October/036050.html
[16:20] <jcastro> for example
[16:20] <jono>  1. Sarah Bloggs submits session Foo via summit
[16:21] <jcastro> jono: yeah so the fact that it's a list is just a detail
[16:21] <jono>  2. Sarah promotes the session and people go to the summit page to upvote/downvote
[16:21] <jono>  3. On a given date the top 10 sessions are auto-scheduled
[16:21] <mhall119_> -1 for auto-scheduled
[16:21] <jono> this (a) makes submitting sessions easy and (b) takes care of scheduling
[16:21] <jono> mhall119, why not?
[16:22] <mhall119> because popular != good
[16:22] <jcastro> yeah but that doesn't mean the sessions will be good
[16:22] <dholbach> maybe instead of votes we could make it count RSVPs, to make it a bit more output-based?
[16:22] <mhall119> +1 on using RSVP
[16:22] <balloons> there you go.. how do you define "good" anyway?
[16:23] <mhall119> if you want the session to happen, you should be wanting to attend it too
[16:23] <jcastro> right
[16:23] <jono> oooh I like the RSVP approach
[16:23] <balloons> yes +1
[16:23] <dholbach> but even there you could have an unpopular (in terms of measurable interest), but important session
[16:23] <jono> but that is not much different to voting
[16:23] <jcastro> otherwise I can make "Make Ubuntu make netflix work" as a popular session, with tons of votes and participants.
[16:23] <jcastro> and no one to do the work!
[16:23] <jono> but I think it defines better commitment
[16:23] <mhall119> I'm -1 on auto-scheduling just because controversial things tend to get more votes than boring necessary things
[16:23] <jono> mhall119, right, but controvertial things still need discussing
[16:24] <mhall119> sometimes :)
[16:24] <jono> there is another thing we could do here
[16:24] <balloons> but even if things autoscheduled you still can add those boring sessions. it doesn't preclude track leads from doing that
[16:24] <jono> base it on RSVPs and prioritize by ubuntu-members
[16:24] <mhall119> you can almost assume that the top 2 most voted will be "Get rid of Mir" and "Get rid of Unity"
[16:24] <jcastro> I don't understand the problem we are trying to solve
[16:24] <jono> jcastro, let me explain:
[16:24] <jcastro> do we WANT more UDS sessions?
[16:24] <balloons> mhall119, if those had concrete plans attached why not?
[16:24] <balloons> :-)
[16:24] <jono> right now, scheduling sessions for community members for vUDS is a pain in the ass
[16:25] <jono> and entirely not cleare
[16:25] <mhall119> balloons: because it's not going to happen
[16:25] <jcastro> but not really, you can just ask a track lead to schedule your sessions
[16:25] <jono> you need to know BPs, you need to get it approved, you need to assume a track lead will schedule it
[16:25] <jono> the entire process sucks
[16:25] <mhall119> jcastro: some track leads have more time to do that than others
[16:25] <jono> which means fewer UDS sessions
[16:25] <jono> I want to make (a) submitting sessions easier and (b) make determining good sessions easier
[16:26] <jono> jcastro, vUDS sessions should not be based on being friends with track leads
[16:26] <jcastro> well, if we remove the BP requirement that makes it real easy
[16:26] <jcastro> jono: but they're not are they?
[16:26] <jcastro> we do a call for sessions weeks in advance
[16:26] <jono> jcastro, to a degree they are
[16:27] <jono> jcastro, the process is too complicated
[16:27] <jcastro> now granted I only get one or two
[16:27] <mhall119> my proposal is to use Summit's ability to request a session, make the track leads review it to determine if it needs a BP or not.  If it needs a BP, the track lead can make it or they can as the requester to make it.  But ultimately track leads are responsible for their track's sessions, not a voting system
[16:27] <jono> I have heard lots of feedback about this
[16:27] <jono> I think we need to be able to point people to a specific page where they can submit a session
[16:27] <jono> and we can determine participate in an easy manner too
[16:27] <mhall119> jono: we have that in Summit right now, it's just de-activated for UDS
[16:28] <dholbach> mhall119, does your proposal require any more coding?
[16:28] <jono> mhall119, right
[16:28] <jcastro> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/propose_meeting/
[16:28] <jono> I think the RSVP is cool
[16:28] <mhall119> dholbach: no, or minimal
[16:28] <jono> it provides a good way to determine interest
[16:28] <jcastro> but we have all this already, that's why I am confused
[16:28] <jono> but we need some weighting
[16:28] <jono> so random folks don't bias real participation
[16:28] <jono> which is why ubuntu membership could be useful
[16:28] <mhall119> I *think* people can subscribe to proposed meetings, if not we can allow it
[16:29] <balloons> We used proposed meetings at one point.. some uds a bit ago
[16:29] <dholbach> so there'd be a review queue with "most subscribers" at the top?
[16:29] <mhall119> it's been used for Linaro Connect too, IIRC
[16:29] <mhall119> cjohnston would be able to tell us for sure
[16:29] <mhall119> dholbach: we have a review queue for track leads, I don't htink it's sorted atm, but we can do that
[16:30] <dholbach> that sounds like it'd get us most of the way to the goal, no? :)
[16:30] <mhall119> yes it does
[16:30] <jono> I gotta run to another meeting, but lets discuss this more this week
[16:31] <balloons> I'm intrigued by the reddit style voting.
[16:34] <jcastro> you could just dump all the sessions into a subreddit via an API?
[16:34] <jcastro> r/UbuntuUDS
[17:06] <pleia2> mhall119: thanks :)
[18:52] <pleia2> jcastro: your ubuntu membership expired
[19:11] <jcastro> oh? lol!
[19:11] <jcastro> shouldn't LP spam me before that happens?
[19:12] <pleia2> jcastro: yeah, should have been spamming you for a wek
[19:12] <pleia2> week too
[19:12] <pleia2> I can readd you if you want
[19:13] <jcastro> I only got the one from 13 hours ago
[19:14] <pleia2> lovely
[19:14] <jcastro> yes if you could readd me that would be awesome. :)
[19:15] <pleia2> done
[19:50] <cprofitt> hey jcastro
[20:01] <jcastro> yo yo
[20:02] <jcastro> jono: I'm in the hangout
[20:03] <jono> jcastro, unfortunately hangouts for me right now are completely screwed
[20:03] <jono> my net connection is lagging
[20:04] <jono> I had to meet with dpm on IRC earlier
[20:04] <jono> jcastro, sorry to bump again, but can we try tomorrow or wed?
[20:05] <jcastro> jono: nod
[20:05] <jcastro> it's a bad hardware day in general for me too
[20:05] <jcastro> my main desktop died
[20:05] <jcastro> been slumming it on my laptop
[20:06] <jono> jcastro, sorry, man
[20:06] <jono> I know we have been strapped for time
[20:06] <jono> I promise we will chat soon
[20:09] <bkerensa> jono: is someone on your team working on the community website these days? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community-website/+bug/1186897
[20:09] <bkerensa> still trying to get that bug fixed months later
[20:09] <jono> bkerensa, yes we take care of it when we have time
[20:09] <jono> dholbach coordinates it
[20:11] <bkerensa> jono: well the bug expired and pleia2 and I provided all the feedback we possibly could
[20:11] <jono> bkerensa, I understand this
[20:11] <jono> bkerensa, this is not a bug, it is an opinion
[20:11] <jono> and right now we are in release crunch so it is not a priority
[20:11] <jono> we will get to it when we can
[20:15] <bkerensa> jono: perhaps it might be easier if the community maintained the community site? My understanding is the reasoning behind the transition was so delays like this did not exist and it could be more community driven.
[20:15] <jono> bkerensa, the community are welcome to provide input and participate in the site
[20:15] <jono> and we tried over a number of UDSs, but people signed up and most didnt do the work
[20:15] <jono> hence it lives with dholbach
[20:16] <bkerensa> jono: actually lyz and I both provided feedback about this before and now after in the form of a bug
[20:16] <bkerensa> as did others
[20:16] <bkerensa> so it was kind of ignored as feedback which is why a bug was filed
[20:16] <jono> bkerensa, feedback is welcomed
[20:16] <jono> but as I just posted, I personally don't consider this a bug
[20:16] <jono> it is an editorial discussion
[20:16] <jono> which is an important discussion to have
[20:17] <jono> and I think we need a place to have those discussions
[20:17] <jono> maybe a mailing list or something
[20:17] <jono> but I would prefer if we keep the bug tracker focused on bugs (e.g. broken pages, broken links)
[20:17] <jono> bkerensa, this is not a case of us "ignoring" feedback, but simply that everyone is in release crunch right now
[20:18] <jono> for arguably one of our biggest releases due to the new phone form factor
[20:18] <bkerensa> was everyone in release crunch four months ago when community feedback was solicited before the site was launched?
[20:18] <jono> no
[20:18] <jono> and there was lots of discussion and feedback around the site
[22:07] <mhall119> man, printer setup on Ubuntu can be dead simple these days, it's awesome
[22:09] <pleia2> haha, yeah, I tried to install a printer in windows the other day and gave up and emailed myself the .pdf to print
[22:09] <pleia2> still awful
[22:11] <mhall119> Pendulum: happy birtday to you too
[22:20] <Pendulum> mhall119: thank you!
[22:21] <ejat> happy birthday Pendulum  :)
[22:28] <bkerensa> mhall119: The work being done upstream to make the printer setup happen is great and so many printers are seeing support thanks to Gutenprint
[22:30] <bkerensa> mhall119: now just to wait till next cycle for iwlwifi-next :)
[22:33] <jose> Pendulum: happy birthday, Pen!
[22:40] <Pendulum> jose, ejat: thanks!
[22:40] <jose> hope to see you again soon
[22:40] <jose> was nice to meet in California
[22:47] <bkerensa> Pendulum: happy birthday!
[22:50] <bkerensa> jose: are you going to FLISOL in 14?
[22:51] <jose> bkerensa: actually, flisol is local
[22:51] <bkerensa> jose: FLISOL Bogota
[22:51] <jose> why should I, if I have FLISOL Lima?
[22:51] <bkerensa> jose: to see sergio ofc :)
[22:51] <bkerensa> and me
[22:52] <jose> I may go to ubuconla, but not flisol bogota
[22:52] <jose> there's no reason to spend +$700 when I can spend $10
[22:52] <bkerensa> :)
[22:53] <Pendulum> bkerensa: thanks :)
[22:54] <bkerensa> jose: well hopefully Peru can be in 2015 :) I am planning to get to Latin America
[22:54] <jono> mhall119, hey
[22:54] <jose> sure
[22:54] <jono> any more info on the wordpress blogging thing?
[22:59] <mhall119> jono: the plugin we have puts them all into the Posts table, so I'll need to create a new template to display just those coming from the aggregator
[22:59] <mhall119> and then a new page that uses that template to display them
[23:01] <jono> mhall119, right
[23:02] <jono> mhall119, ok, we would associate someone's RSS feed with the site...
[23:02] <jono> and then those posts would appear as posts on the d.u.c  blog?
[23:48] <mhall119> jono: we have two options, both require about the same amount of work
[23:49] <mhall119> 1) Have a separate page that has a planet-style aggregation of 3rd party developer feeds
[23:49] <mhall119> 2) Mix 3rd party posts with developer.u.c posts in /blog/
[23:50] <jono> mhall119, I would prefer (1)
[23:50] <mhall119> that was my plan too
[23:50] <jono> then we can keep the main blog for official news and announcements
[23:50] <mhall119> yup
[23:50] <jono> mhall119, so does this mean every post that is aggregated gets its own comments too?
[23:51] <mhall119> it could, but I think we could just link to the original too, I'd have too dig into it a bit more to know for sure though