/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/09/30/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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mdeslaur\o16:32
jdstrand_hi!16:32
jdstrand_#startmeeting16:32
meetingologyMeeting started Mon Sep 30 16:32:42 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.16:32
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired16:32
jdstrand_The meeting agenda can be found at:16:32
jdstrand_[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting16:32
jdstrand_[TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report16:32
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
jdstrand_I'll go first16:32
jdstrand_I'm in the happy place this week16:33
mdeslauryou do indeed look happy16:34
jdstrand_I'm working on an apaprmor-easyprof-ubuntu upload which should finish out all the policy/reserved vs common policy groups/etc. I'm waiting for bug #1231863 to be fixed before uploading16:34
ubottubug 1231863 in ubuntu-ui-toolkit (Ubuntu Saucy) "Local Sqlite databases are still created/stored in incorrect location" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/123186316:34
jdstrand_heh16:34
jdstrand_I also am doing stuff with appstore reviews this week-- various updates for recent changes16:34
jdstrand_including working with SDK team on filing path bugs against apps now that they are fixed16:35
jdstrand_"now that they are fixed" referes to the path bugs being fixed in the sdk16:35
sbeattie\o/16:35
jdstrand_but apps are now broken-- so I am going to enumerate them16:36
jdstrand_also continue various followups on https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+bugs?field.tag=application-confinement bugs16:36
jdstrand_I have some patch piloting to do16:36
jdstrand_and think there is a decent chance I might pick up an update this week16:37
* jdstrand_ crosses fingers16:37
jdstrand_mdeslaur: you're up16:37
mdeslaurI'm on triage this week16:37
mdeslaurI have a short week as I'm off thursday and friday16:37
mdeslaurI'm about to push out a few USNs16:37
mdeslaurand I have a bunch more in our PPA that are in the testing phase16:37
mdeslaurI may get to a couple more before thursday16:38
mdeslaurthat's about it16:38
mdeslaursbeattie: you're up16:38
sbeattieI'm on apparmor again this week, trying to offload work from jjohansen16:38
sbeattieI'm poking at the very early ipc prototype kernel he got me, now that I finally got it booting :/16:39
sbeattieI also need to followup with jdstrand on the hardware apparmor policy proposal he had made earlier.16:39
sbeattieand I need to track down why the parser commits broke both my jenkins build and the daily apparmor ppa builds16:40
tyhicksuh oh16:40
sbeattieI think it's the newly added dependency on libapparmor for the parser build16:40
sbeattie(but we don't need to solve that here)16:41
sbeattieI think that's it for me; tyhicks, you're up16:41
jjohansenoh, yeah likely, sorry16:41
tyhicksI'm testing dbus, apparmor, and evince uploads that fix several bugs16:41
tyhicksOne of the fixes in dbus-daemon looks like it may affect some of the dbus policy in apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu, so I'll need to coordinate w/ jdstrand16:41
tyhicksThen I've got an embargoed issue to work on16:41
tyhicksThen I've got one more dbus bug to fix (bug #1229280)16:41
ubottubug 1229280 in dbus (Ubuntu) "Eavesdroppers confined with AppArmor can see all method_return and error messages" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/122928016:42
tyhicksI think that's it for me16:42
tyhicksjjohansen: you're up16:43
jjohansenI'll be working on more apparmor IPC mediation this week16:44
jjohansenhrmm I think that is about it for me sarnold your up16:45
chrisccoulsonjjohansen, oh, i've been looking at your earlier ping16:45
jdstrand_I'm not sure sarnold is here yet. chrisccoulson feel free to go ahead16:46
sarnold(hello :)16:46
chrisccoulsonjjohansen, http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/comm-esr24/rev/16e20df57d08 is what removed the ability to set the Follow-Up header16:46
chrisccoulsonanyway16:46
jjohansenchrisccoulson: thanks for looking16:47
chrisccoulsonthis week, i'll hopefully be getting back to my oxide bug / feature list :)16:47
jdstrand_sarnold: ah, didn't see you come in :)16:47
sarnoldjdstrand_: heh, that was me coming in :) sorry.16:47
jdstrand_no need to be sorry16:47
chrisccoulsonwe've got pretty good test coverage for the actual API now, although i'm still adding bits (and fixing bugs as I find them)16:47
chrisccoulsoni think that's me done16:47
mdeslaurchrisccoulson: any progress on the nss ftbfs?16:48
mdeslauralthough I guess it's a little late now to get it in saucy16:48
chrisccoulsonmdeslaur, oh, i need to get back to that. sorry. i've got my pandaboard all set up here again now so I've got a bit more flexibility with the test environment16:49
mdeslaurchrisccoulson: cool, thanks16:49
chrisccoulsoni planned to roll back some of the recent updates to see when it fails. the main suspects are gcc, binutils and eglibc, which were all updated since the last time it worked16:49
* mdeslaur rolls dice16:51
mdeslaurgcc!16:51
chrisccoulsonheh16:51
chrisccoulsonmdeslaur, it doesn't matter which one it is. they're all doko's packages anyway :)16:51
chrisccoulsonthat's why i picked them out as suspects ;)16:51
chrisccoulson(just kidding btw)16:52
jdstrand_heh16:52
jdstrand_chrisccoulson: did you have more to report?16:52
mdeslaurhehe16:52
chrisccoulsonjdstrand_, no, i'm done16:53
jdstrand_sarnold: you're up16:53
sarnoldI'm on community this week, and have two more MIR audits to finish up, MIR and open-vm-tools; I would very much like to do both of them this week, but Mir is a large and complicated codebase, I may not make enough progress to finish both this week.16:53
sarnolds/MIR and/Mir and/16:53
sarnoldat least the unity-system-compositor was written in idiomatic c++11, which isn't one of my strong languages, so the going was slower than I'd like.16:54
sarnoldbut hey I'm getting to learn c++11 while I'm at it, and that's fun. :)16:54
sarnoldI think that's it for me, jdstrand_ back to you16:55
jdstrand_:)16:55
mdeslaursarnold: you've been redefining the word "fun" again, haven't you? :)16:55
* jdstrand_ hugs sarnold 16:55
chrisccoulsonsarnold, want to port chromium to c++11?16:55
sbeattiesarnold: when you're done, can you teach me those bits of c++11?16:55
sbeattiemdeslaur: he overloaded the fun operator.16:56
mdeslaurreturn True;16:56
sarnoldmdeslaur: lol :) yes, just operator_fun() { ... } and away you go!16:56
sarnoldchrisccoulson: nothanks :)16:56
chrisccoulsonheh16:56
jdstrand_[TOPIC] Highlighted packages16:56
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
chrisccoulsoni really want to be able to use final and override16:57
jdstrand_http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/argyll.html16:57
jdstrand_http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/passenger.html16:57
jdstrand_http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gridengine.html16:57
jdstrand_http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/salt.html16:57
jdstrand_http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/openswan.html16:57
jdstrand_The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.16:57
jdstrand_See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.16:57
jdstrand_[TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions16:57
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
jdstrand_Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?16:57
jdstrand_mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: thanks17:07
jdstrand_#endmeeting17:07
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Mon Sep 30 17:07:54 2013 UTC.17:07
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-30-16.32.moin.txt17:07
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-30-16.32.html17:07
jjohansenthanks jdstrand_17:07
sarnoldthanks jdstrand_ :)17:07
=== jdstrand_ is now known as jdstrand
mdeslaurthanks jdstrand!17:07
sbeattiejdstrand: thanks!17:08
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pittistgraber, soren, kees, cjwatson: meeting in 2 mins?19:58
stgraberyep, I'll be there19:58
cjwatsonHere19:59
pitticjwatson chaired last time AFAICS, so kees today?20:01
pittiand as he seems absent, I guess it's my turn20:01
pitti#startmeeting20:02
meetingologyMeeting started Mon Sep 30 20:02:39 2013 UTC.  The chair is pitti. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.20:02
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired20:02
mdzpitti, hi20:02
pittihey mdz, how are you?20:02
mdzbusy! :-)20:02
pitti#topic action review20:03
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: action review
mdzdo we have quorum today?20:03
pittiMartin Pitt to contact Mark Shuttleworth to organise nominations and elections20:03
pittidone20:03
pittimdz: 4 members, so yes20:03
mdzah great20:03
pittikees still wanted to review MREs, no visible progress there20:03
cjwatsonre nominations20:03
pitti#topic TB elections20:04
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: TB elections
cjwatsonI guess the plan is to renew just those members who haven't declared an intent to stand down?20:04
keeso/20:04
pittioh, hey kees20:04
cjwatsonas in, temporarily extend terms pending elections20:04
keesyeah, so no progress on MRE review. still need to gather bug details. it is not trivial :)20:04
pitticjwatson: I actually meant it "extend membership of the whole board for a month"20:04
pitticjwatson: but if you want to leave now, that's fine too20:04
pittiI'm just concerned that suddenly nobody of us would have tb powers any more, which makes some things difficult20:05
pitti(cleaning up MPs and similar)20:05
cjwatsonjust wondering if I get to stop turning up to Monday evening meetings ... ;-)20:05
cjwatsoncleaning up MPs - I think core-dev can do that now20:05
cjwatsongiven that ~ubuntu-branches > ~ubuntu-core-dev20:05
pitticjwatson: well, you can :)20:05
pitticjwatson: oh, good20:06
cjwatsonI agree that the TB slots in Launchpad shouldn't be left unstaffed20:06
cjwatsonI got infinity to add me to ~launchpad-buildd-admins, though, so I think that's the main TB power I use routinely20:06
keesdo we need to have offset terms for the incoming folks?20:06
cjwatsonIf there are others, I would be interested to discover them :-)20:06
cjwatsonkees: Seems unnecessary20:07
pittiok, other than that I guess we need to wait on sabdfl's reply on a candidate list now, and the actual elections20:08
pitti#topic Requiring TB members to be Ubuntu core developers20:08
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Requiring TB members to be Ubuntu core developers
pittijust as some people already said by mail, I generally agree that TB members *should* be core devs20:09
soreno/20:09
pittibut I'm not even sure whether we can even instantiate that requirement20:09
sorenSorry I'm late.20:09
pittigiven that ultimately sabdfl decides on the nominations20:09
cjwatsonMy feeling on this is that it can be left up to the good sense of the electorate, given (a) a reasonable slate of nominees and (b) a secret ballot so that there's no undue pressure20:09
micahg-workwhy should this be different than any other board?20:09
pittiwe could, as a TB, give him a recommendation to consider core-devs only20:10
pittimicahg-work: how do you mean?20:10
cjwatsonI agree that it's a reasonable default, but I can easily imagine exceptions, and indeed some were suggested20:10
pittino other board is "core dev only"20:10
keeswhy not making it a requirement, and then if it needs to be violated, that can be discussed at the time.20:10
stgrabercjwatson: I did a milestone cleanup last week which IIRC requires TB privileges so we're good for a bit20:10
micahg-workwell, to have prerequisites in terms of who can serve20:10
cjwatsonstgraber: Yeah, that and I suspect that I may run into something with packagesets but we'll see20:11
micahg-workeven the CC has a public nominations period20:11
stgrabercjwatson: oh yeah, good point, that's one TB-related right I use quite a bit20:11
cjwatsonmicahg-work: I think we can have recommendations and/or requirements20:11
stgraber(for those that aren't DMB owned)20:11
cjwatsonstgraber: It might be ~ubuntu-archive.  I'll find out20:11
micahg-worksorry20:11
pittiit just feels odd to me that an existing board can restrict its own successors20:11
micahg-workgetting 2 topics crossed here20:11
cjwatsonWhat I mean is, I think we can have core-dev as a soft requirement / recomendation, without having to make it a rule and then argue about violations20:12
pittimicahg-work: that's fine, your's is the current one20:12
micahg-workno, I meant I was bringing up 2 topics :)20:12
micahg-worklet's focus on the core dev issue first20:12
cjwatsonpitti: heh, British constitutional principle20:12
micahg-workso, maybe I should ask the CC to make it a requirement if the TB doesn't feel it has the right to do so20:13
pittiby the same reason we coudl decide that members must only be "pitti", "cjwatson", "kees", and so on20:13
sorenI still haven't understoo the motivation, to be honest.20:13
cjwatsonmicahg-work: In my case, it's not that I don't think the TB has the right, it's that I think it shouldn't make it a hard rule20:13
cjwatsonmicahg-work: Furthermore, the CC does not have authority over the TB20:13
pittibut still, if there's a very active MOTU with a good technical understanding and he gets a majority of ubuntu dev's trust, why not20:13
micahg-workI thought the CC has some authority as the ultimate community governance structure20:13
cjwatsonThe governance structure has the CC and TB at the same level, under sabdfl20:13
sorenIf sabdfl and the everyone who can vote wants someone to be in the TB who isn't a core-dev... Why not?20:14
cjwatsonI was there when it was written20:14
micahg-workok, I guess that's good to know then20:14
sorenThis is news to me, too. I thought CC>TB.20:14
pittialso, if someone is a very active, say ~ubuntu-desktopper20:14
cjwatsonsoren: Right, this is my "set general principle but let the electorate decide" preferred approach20:14
mdzcjwatson, I recall sabdfl remembering differently and/or wanting to change that, a while back20:14
pitti(we have package sets now)20:14
sorencjwatson: Right. That's what I tried to express in my e-mail as well, but you managed it much more eloquently :)20:15
cjwatsonmdz: Well, if so, I don't think http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/governance implies that right now ...20:15
cjwatson(And I think it would be unfortunate)20:16
mdzcjwatson, I agree20:17
pittimicahg-work: under the circumstances (no majority for a requirement, and doubts that we even have the ability to make it a requirement), would you settle for the TB giving this as a reocmmendation to sabdfl?20:17
mdzat least on the former. I should probably be neutral on the latter20:17
cjwatsonFWIW, the current set of nominees being tossed around in private mail doesn't include any non-core-devs, I believe; I don't know if sabdfl has other ideas20:18
micahg-workpitti, if that's the best I can get, I guess I"ll take it20:18
micahg-workbut I was very concerned with the last election20:18
micahg-workit seemed to be too close for comfort20:18
pittiright, and admittedly I used ~core-dev/+members as input for my own recommendations20:18
cjwatsonmicahg-work: Was it really a problem, given that the electorate made its feelings clear?20:18
* soren tries to recall the last election..20:19
micahg-workcjwatson, I don't want it to get to a point where it is a problem20:19
mdzI'm in favor of fewer rules where guidelines and judgment suffice20:19
cjwatsonThe non-dev candidates in the last election placed 10th and 13th20:20
cjwatsonI don't recall exactly who was core-dev at the time but I think all the top 9 were20:20
micahg-workoh, hrm, I thought one placed 7th20:20
micahg-workif I"m misremembering, I guess it might be a non-issue after all20:20
cjwatsonmicahg-work: No, history from LP is clear that that wasn't the case20:20
cjwatsonhttp://www.cs.cornell.edu/w8/~andru/cgi-perl/civs/results.pl?id=E_3896e483ca548c95 if anyone else wants to data-mine20:20
micahg-workok, must have been thinking of something else then20:21
cjwatsonLooks like all of 1-9, 11, 12 were core-dev at the top20:21
micahg-workthen, I guess the recommendation will suffice20:21
cjwatson*time20:21
* soren doesn't recall whether Clint was core-dev at the time, tbh.20:21
micahg-workI'm pretty sure he was20:21
cjwatsonsoren: He was, by a few months20:22
cjwatsonhttps://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/+members has joining dates20:22
sorencjwatson: Are those trustworthy? It used to show the date when someone applied for membership, not when they were approved.20:22
sorenBah. It doesn't matter.20:23
cjwatsonI'n not certain.  Could check, but not within meeting time :-)20:23
micahg-workok, I think that suffices then, thank you all20:23
cjwatsonsoren: In Clint's case, -devel-announce archives confirm that it was approval date20:24
pittiso is everyone ok with an explicit recommendation about core-dev to sabdfl?20:24
cjwatson+120:24
pittior any new/other discussion aspects?20:24
pitti+120:24
pittisoren, kees, mdz: opinions?20:25
mdz+020:25
pitti(mdz is actually an interesting case as he voluntarily stepped out of core-dev)20:25
mdzI'll support the consensus20:25
stgraber+120:26
pittiand collective wisdom via vote should do the rest :)20:26
mdzI think it's worth asking the question, it would be unusual I agree20:26
soren+120:26
cjwatsonunusual> Yes, I'm definitely in favour of it as a default and as a (strong) recommendation, just have qualms about it as a hard requirement20:27
kees+120:27
pittiack, thanks20:28
pitti#topic Provisional MRE Request For KDE Telepathy20:28
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Provisional MRE Request For KDE Telepathy
pitti(via email)20:28
pittithis seems rather obvious to me really, as these are now under the KDE microrelease policy20:29
pittiand don't influence other flavours20:29
keesyeah20:29
pittiany objections?20:30
sorenNope.20:30
keesnope; I'm for it.20:30
pittiack, so granted (will do bureaucracy after meeting)20:30
pitti#topic ML scan20:31
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ML scan
cjwatsonOh, I thought I'd replied to that by mail20:31
pittinothign else that I can see20:31
cjwatsonI agree, the MRE looks like an easy signoff20:31
pittihttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bugs?field.assignee=techboard -> zarro20:31
pitti#topic Select a chair for the next meeting20:31
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Select a chair for the next meeting
pittikees: would you do the honors?20:31
pittikees: (as it would have been your turn today)20:31
keesyup!20:32
keessorry about being late :(20:32
pittinp20:32
pitti#topic AOB20:32
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
micahg-worko/20:32
pittimicahg-work: go ahead20:32
micahg-workso, I was wondering why there was no public call for nominations for the TB this time around, ISTR one happening last time20:33
pittiI'm not sure whether there is a final nomination list already, so far Mark just asked for some recommendations from the current TB20:35
micahg-workright, I saw that20:35
cjwatsonThe nomination process is running rather behind, of course20:35
cjwatsonI think partly because Mark was on holiday20:35
micahg-workok, ISTR dholbach gathering nominations20:36
micahg-workhttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2011-September/000895.html20:36
pittiI'll forward that question to Mark, CC'ing the list (need to write him anyway for the core-dev recommendation)20:38
micahg-workthe CC just had a public call for nominations as well: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/community-announce/2013-September/000013.html20:38
cjwatsonI think it'd be a good idea, although bearing in mind that we're late20:39
pittiAOB 2?20:40
pittigoing once..20:40
pittitwice..20:40
pitti#endmeetnig20:41
pitti#endmeeting20:41
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Mon Sep 30 20:41:21 2013 UTC.20:41
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-30-20.02.moin.txt20:41
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-09-30-20.02.html20:41
pittithanks everyone!20:41
micahg-workthanks pitti20:41
* cjwatson waves20:41
keesthanks pitti!20:41
stgraberthanks!20:41
pittiok, all mopped up I think21:09
pittigood night21:09
u-k-i-tCould a tech board member check the emails requiring moderation on their list. It did not make the meeting and does not appear on the web based list archive. Thanks.21:57

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