| Unit193 | "tee redirects only stdout" that's why 2>&1 | tee | 00:09 |
|---|---|---|
| Unit193 | xnox: Thanks. | 00:32 |
| Unit193 | Now I'm scared to ask. :P | 00:32 |
| === xubuntu is now known as Guest72163 | ||
| === Guest72163 is now known as SergioAD | ||
| skellat | Okay, LP #1231978 bothers me greatly on my clean install of the daily. We need to figure that one out soon. | 02:34 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1231978 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar 1.6.3 under xubuntu 13.10 beta2 locks when browsing Trash" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231978 | 02:34 |
| brainwash | Unit193: yes, I guess this terminal gtk mneu issue requires some real debugging :( | 09:42 |
| Noskcaj10 | brainwash, Can't you use xterm to help with debugging | 09:46 |
| brainwash | Noskcaj10: I did, using another terminal emulator to start xfce4-terminal freezes the session | 09:47 |
| brainwash | (if you trigger the bug) | 09:47 |
| Noskcaj10 | brainwash, Some ideas for debugging: Test debian version, Test the xfce version, test older versions. It looks like it's something else rather than the terminal itself though | 09:53 |
| brainwash | right, thanks for the ideas :) | 09:54 |
| Noskcaj10 | I've just added myself to the affects list | 09:56 |
| Noskcaj10 | But if you can repeat it in a debian install or with the upstream tarball please file the bug there, it should speed up getting a fix | 09:57 |
| brainwash | yes, I will | 10:00 |
| brainwash | wow, first time I see the update notifier applet in saucy | 11:17 |
| brainwash | does a bug report for all the hidden gtk3 indicators exist? | 11:18 |
| brainwash | besides, it's almost unbelievable, how often apport gets triggered, it's like every app wants to segfault once in a while | 11:21 |
| baizon | well, the update notifier isnt showing up for me :( | 11:29 |
| baizon | not for me | 11:29 |
| brainwash | it did for me, to tell me that I have an outdated package | 11:38 |
| brainwash | because I downgraded xfce4-terminal | 11:38 |
| === mhall119_ is now known as mhall119 | ||
| skellat | Well, looking ahead to the upcoming LTS cycle...this bit of auto-removal news relative to Testing should be interesting: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2013/09/msg00006.html | 16:28 |
| skellat | Nothing Xfce-related is listed so far | 16:28 |
| brainwash | regarding bug 1232027 , shouldn't the missing package be included asap? | 16:46 |
| ubottu | bug 1232027 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "pm-utils not installed by default in 13.10" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232027 | 16:46 |
| skellat | micahg: If we're still able to do so, I think we can go ahead and remove pidgin-microblog from the archive since it has been orphaned upstream in Debian. | 19:16 |
| skellat | I proposed merges to get it out of our seed and Lubuntu's due to this: #712102 | 19:16 |
| skellat | Pardon me, Debian Bug #712102 | 19:16 |
| ubottu | Debian bug 712102 in pidgin-microblog "Plugin no longer functions with Twitter or Identica" [Grave,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/712102 | 19:16 |
| skellat | And now Debian Bug #724983 says it is orphaned | 19:16 |
| ubottu | Debian bug 724983 in wnpp "O: pidgin-microblog -- Microblogging plugins for Pidgin" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/724983 | 19:16 |
| skellat | It looks like no further action on it is going to happen | 19:17 |
| skellat | :-( | 19:17 |
| kristal | Soo gnomers are playing with wayland and kde is getting there... how/when is xfce getting/going wayland? | 21:17 |
| ochosi | after the gtk3 transition, which is after the 4.12 release | 21:17 |
| ochosi | so it'll be a while | 21:18 |
| brainwash | in like 2 years | 21:18 |
| kristal | Oh my, LXDE is going to beat you. | 21:18 |
| ochosi | it's not a contest though | 21:18 |
| knome | no, not by any means | 21:19 |
| brainwash | feel free to help porting Xfce to gtk3 | 21:19 |
| kristal | It's for feature phallus waving :P | 21:19 |
| knome | !language | kristal | 21:19 |
| ubottu | kristal: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional. | 21:19 |
| kristal | Wow, I didn't get the language warning for that work on a Christian irc. | 21:19 |
| knome | that's not a contest either. | 21:20 |
| kristal | Well if it were, you won. You guys porting the piles of gtk2 stuff to gtk3 or jsut rewriting a lot? I haven't looked into how modular things are. | 21:21 |
| brainwash | ochosi: new release of gvfs https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/1.18.1-0ubuntu2 | 21:21 |
| kristal | LXDE guys are RWing into Qt because they're soo tied into their current stuff. | 21:21 |
| ochosi | brainwash: the changelog doesn't suggest our problem got tackled. but at least now you have a guy to talk to (seb128) | 21:22 |
| ochosi | kristal: things are really modular in xfce, so you can port component-by-component | 21:22 |
| kristal | Qt is superior to GTK in some ways, but they way Qt uses C++ is a nightmare, the custom memory system alone deserves it's own book. | 21:23 |
| ochosi | and the main libraries already compile against gtk2 and gtk3, so anyone can start hacking on it | 21:23 |
| brainwash | ochosi: guess I'll inform him in #ubuntu-devel | 21:23 |
| ochosi | brainwash: yup, good call | 21:23 |
| ochosi | brainwash: i'm in there, but if you need support, lemme know | 21:24 |
| kristal | ochosi: I'd play with it but I'm currently playing with SDL for Qt5 and GTK3. | 21:24 |
| ochosi | kristal: that's a shame, xfce could really use more contributors | 21:25 |
| kristal | ochosi: If RazorQt and LXDE could join forces, I don't see why XFCE can't eat another project. | 21:25 |
| kristal | Really bowls down to how stubborn the lead devs to both projects are... | 21:26 |
| knome | can't eat what project? | 21:26 |
| kristal | knome: Any project that's gtk2 going gtk3 could simply work with xfce and become an xfce fork. | 21:26 |
| kristal | LXDE was going to do that but went with RazorQt devs because they decided to go Qt instead of GTK. | 21:27 |
| ochosi | i don't know of any gtk2 DE going gtk3 tbh | 21:27 |
| knome | right, but wouldn't that be the same as just the other people help porting xfce to gtk3? | 21:27 |
| ali1234 | can't think of any myself | 21:27 |
| ali1234 | i just heard about gnome-flashback today | 21:28 |
| ochosi | hmyeah | 21:28 |
| ochosi | not sure that'll be helpful | 21:28 |
| ali1234 | they say they're going to port metacity to gtk3 | 21:28 |
| knome | i don't think there is anything that is enough like xfce | 21:28 |
| ali1234 | that's just mutter though. seriously, the code is like 99% copy pasted | 21:28 |
| ochosi | yeah, porting metacity is weird | 21:28 |
| ochosi | ali1234: btw, have you considered getting your hands dirty on some xfce project yet? | 21:29 |
| ali1234 | like what? | 21:29 |
| kristal | Just have to post an official message of unity and love, mail DEs that are still active but short on manpower, even if they're not gtk2. | 21:29 |
| ali1234 | i prefer to find bugs and let someone else fix them | 21:29 |
| ochosi | ali1234: dunno, depends on what you use. ppl use xfce in very different ways | 21:29 |
| ochosi | hehe, doesn't everyone ;) | 21:30 |
| ali1234 | i use thunar and terminal...? | 21:30 |
| ali1234 | and panel | 21:30 |
| ali1234 | and that's it | 21:30 |
| kristal | Too bad there's still no official Go packaging standard for Linux, then I could make Go software for FOSS projects... | 21:30 |
| knome | kristal, i don't know how that would be different from simply gathering more developers/contributors for xfce. am i missing something? | 21:30 |
| ali1234 | i can;t honestly think of any other DEs that haven't already been mentioned except for e17 | 21:31 |
| kristal | knome: Not much different, just having projects hook up as well. | 21:31 |
| * knome shrugs | 21:31 | |
| knome | i suppose there is a reason why they are different projects to begin with | 21:31 |
| ali1234 | and e17 is a one-man show pretty much | 21:32 |
| kristal | ROX is gtk2, kinda dead, maybe ask about them. | 21:32 |
| ochosi | kristal: anyway, if you meet motivated folk it'd be nice if you point them in xfce's direction (git.xfce.org) | 21:32 |
| ochosi | ali1234: same with xfce though (mostly) atm | 21:32 |
| kristal | ochosi: I have, but they went KDE instead. :0 | 21:32 |
| ali1234 | i've never heard of ROX before | 21:32 |
| brainwash | you should head over to #xfce-dev | 21:33 |
| ochosi | kristal: thing is, usually people work on foss for fun or to scratch an itch, so "hooking up projects" isn't as easy as it sounds | 21:33 |
| ochosi | the ROX-filemanager? | 21:33 |
| kristal | ochosi: Ya it depends on the nature of the project. | 21:33 |
| kristal | ochosi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROX_Desktop | 21:33 |
| ochosi | yeah, but "hooking up" those two projects wouldn't add any dev-resources | 21:35 |
| ochosi | and still, people would wanna keep working on the stuff they're interested in | 21:35 |
| ochosi | and since it's open source, people read each other's sourcecode anyway... | 21:35 |
| kristal | ochosi: Where I work we basically contribute to another company's code and repackage it as our own... same concept. lol | 21:35 |
| ochosi | ali1234: you don't use xfwm4? | 21:36 |
| ali1234 | yeah i use that i guess | 21:36 |
| ochosi | that could use some love... | 21:36 |
| ali1234 | why? | 21:36 |
| ali1234 | show me the bugs | 21:36 |
| ochosi | :) | 21:36 |
| brainwash | opengl compositing :) | 21:37 |
| ali1234 | works for me | 21:37 |
| knome | ehm, probably not the highest priority bug :P | 21:37 |
| ali1234 | much faster than compiz too | 21:37 |
| ochosi | well, many patches are rotting in bugzilla | 21:38 |
| ochosi | random example: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10184 | 21:38 |
| ubottu | bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10184 in General "Xfwm turns into useless state after setting system time backwards" [Normal,New] | 21:38 |
| ali1234 | i don't understand how to use bugzilla | 21:38 |
| ali1234 | it's the worst bug tracker ever :( | 21:39 |
| ali1234 | you see a bug once and can never find it again because the search is useless | 21:39 |
| brainwash | does anyone run debian testing? we need to confirm bug 1231978 | 21:39 |
| ubottu | bug 1231978 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar 1.6.3 locks when browsing Trash with Xubuntu 13.10 Beta 2 and following dailies" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231978 | 21:39 |
| ali1234 | why would you need to run debian testing to confirm that? | 21:39 |
| brainwash | too many questions | 21:40 |
| kristal | I have that bug in ubuntu 13.10 | 21:40 |
| ochosi | ali1234: then there is a bug in xfwm4/X11 (since 12.10) that you can't use 1px window-borders anymore (it creates weird artifacts on the screen). our workaround was patching the themes. not too nice | 21:40 |
| ali1234 | ah the window borders | 21:40 |
| ali1234 | those need reworking | 21:40 |
| ochosi | ali1234: before i go into more, it just could use someone to look after | 21:40 |
| ochosi | ali1234: yeah, stuff like enhanced grab-area for resizing, etc. | 21:40 |
| ali1234 | it should be possible to have 0px window borders and still resize windows | 21:40 |
| ochosi | exactly | 21:41 |
| ali1234 | kde only got that like a month or two ago :( | 21:41 |
| ochosi | i'm not saying those are all critical bugs, but there are 200+ bugs in bugzilla for xfwm4 | 21:41 |
| ochosi | some extremely long-standing | 21:41 |
| ochosi | (many of those are design decisions) | 21:42 |
| ali1234 | how can i see all the bugs affecting xfwm4 in chronological order? | 21:42 |
| ochosi | but also a lot of more recent ones | 21:42 |
| ochosi | ali1234: is PM ok? that link is loooong | 21:42 |
| ali1234 | ha | 21:42 |
| skellat | brainwash: I can confirm that it is not found in Debian Testing on armhf with thunar 1.6.3-1 and gvfs 1.16.3-1+b1 according to apt-cache policy | 21:42 |
| ali1234 | one time someone told me the link for "how to see all bugs you've commented on or edited" - with the warning "don't use this often, it kills the server" | 21:43 |
| ali1234 | and so bugzilla sucks | 21:43 |
| brainwash | skellat: gvfs 1.18 is causing the trouble | 21:43 |
| ochosi | ali1234: yeah, agreed to some extent... launchpad is quite awfully slow though and not much better | 21:44 |
| skellat | brainwash: Well, I've got on armhf what Debian has packaged. Apparently Ubuntu has its own deltas. See: http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=gvfs | 21:45 |
| ochosi | ali1234: btw, the link i sent you was sorted by "date when bug was last changed/updated", i can also send you one sorted by when it was opened | 21:45 |
| kristal | bug 1231978 is a far reaching one... every gtk FM I have is affected. | 21:45 |
| ubottu | bug 1231978 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar 1.6.3 locks when browsing Trash with Xubuntu 13.10 Beta 2 and following dailies" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231978 | 21:45 |
| ali1234 | i can sort it by ID | 21:45 |
| ochosi | true, should be the same :) | 21:45 |
| brainwash | kristal: nautilus, nemo? | 21:46 |
| kristal | brainwash: PCManFM, Nemo, Thunar... I'll try some more in a few mins. | 21:46 |
| brainwash | so Nemo is affected? | 21:46 |
| kristal | 3 FMs, surely not a coincidence, there's a pretty nasty underlying bug. | 21:46 |
| kristal | brainwash: Definitely. | 21:47 |
| brainwash | nautilus and nemo work fine for me | 21:47 |
| ochosi | anyhoo, i'm off for now | 21:47 |
| ochosi | bbiab | 21:47 |
| kristal | brainwash: With Nemo the FM completely hangs up sometimes, but not 100% of the time like with pcmanfm or thunar | 21:47 |
| brainwash | ochosi: cya | 21:48 |
| ochosi | cya brainwash | 21:48 |
| brainwash | skellat: want to file a bug report upstream? bugzilla.gnome.org | 21:48 |
| kristal | brainwash: right click trash in nemo instead of left click, that seems to do the trick | 21:49 |
| brainwash | kristal: I'll try it | 21:49 |
| ali1234 | i can't reproduce that bug about setting the clock back | 21:50 |
| brainwash | kristal: negative, nemo does not crash or lock up | 21:52 |
| kristal | brainwash: Just found an interesting quirk... after you crash and close... the next time you try you can't crash it again until you restart | 21:52 |
| brainwash | kristal: yes, I can confirm that (I think) | 21:52 |
| brainwash | maybe there is some randomness involved | 21:53 |
| kristal | What a bugger of a bug, it's not very consistent. | 21:53 |
| kristal | I can confirm it's not consistent on any FM, but PCManFM seems to get it the worst. | 21:53 |
| brainwash | delete some file and hover over the trash icon on the desktop (xfdesktop) | 21:54 |
| kristal | Nemo the best, Thunar in the middle... kde's fm seems fine so far | 21:54 |
| kristal | I wonder if fedora 20 has this issue... | 21:54 |
| brainwash | want to freeze your session? open xterm and start xfce4-terminal, not navigate to Menu Bar > Terminal > Set Encoding | 21:55 |
| brainwash | s/not/now/ | 21:55 |
| ali1234 | i just LOVE it when people CAPITALIZE random words IN bug REPORTS | 21:56 |
| Noskcaj | brainwash, If you do it xfce4terminal to xfce4-terminal it doesn't freeze the session | 21:56 |
| brainwash | I know, both instances simply vanish | 21:56 |
| kristal | me? let me swap back to xfce, i was playing with lxde... in lxde your desktop wallpaper disappears when the FM crashes, i kid you not. | 21:56 |
| Noskcaj | ali1234, You get used to it, as well as random swearing and saying that something else is better | 21:57 |
| brainwash | because pcmanfm handles the desktop | 21:57 |
| kristal | brainwash: Ah, that makes sense then. | 21:57 |
| ali1234 | i don't mind ranting as long as it is well written | 21:58 |
| skellat | brainwash: The thing is, after the last apt-get dist-upgrade, the problem stopped on my Saucy Salamander partition. Then again, there's no longer an option to send something to trash or view trash in Thunar but instead an 'rm -f' sort of menu item. | 21:59 |
| skellat | And I wasn't watching to see which packages changed | 22:00 |
| brainwash | skellat: a new release of gvfs has been pushed into proposed 2-3 hours ago | 22:01 |
| brainwash | only fixing a non-related bug | 22:01 |
| brainwash | skellat: wait, the trash is missing? | 22:02 |
| brainwash | did you remove gvfs eventually? :D | 22:02 |
| ali1234 | speaking of "trash" | 22:03 |
| ali1234 | the localization is all mixed up for me | 22:03 |
| kristal | So I installed trash-cli and this lets me view and empty trash without crashing the FM. :P | 22:03 |
| ali1234 | sometimes it is wastebasket, sometimes it is rubbish bin | 22:03 |
| ali1234 | and sometimes it is trash | 22:04 |
| brainwash | garbage can, waste container,.. | 22:05 |
| skellat | brainwash: Nope, gvfs is still there...Trash is just no longer visible in thunar | 22:05 |
| brainwash | skellat: that's odd | 22:05 |
| skellat | Yep | 22:06 |
| * skellat heads to kitchen | 22:06 | |
| kristal | Better having trash disabled until there's a proper fix... | 22:06 |
| brainwash | and why did ubuntu switch to gvfs 1.18 ahead of debian? :/ | 22:07 |
| kristal | Probally for some feature or fix that affects canonical only. | 22:08 |
| kristal | hahaha, added trash applet think it'd have it's own little UI for emptying trash.. launches thunar... now have dead thunar | 22:10 |
| Noskcaj | The switch was probably so it was tested for the LTS | 22:10 |
| Noskcaj | btw, can we try and have a PPC release for 14.04? | 22:10 |
| kristal | A lot of 13.10 is intended for 14.04 | 22:11 |
| knome | Noskcaj, where's the testers or the demand really? | 22:11 |
| kristal | ARM >>>>>>> PPC | 22:11 |
| kristal | China is looking for MIPS desktop OSes for their loongson platform, currently they use Debian. | 22:12 |
| Noskcaj | knome, there's not much demand. At least lubuntu will have a great PPC release then, and ubuntu might re-make it's image | 22:12 |
| knome | Noskcaj, why would we have a PPC release for 14.04 then and take the extra workload? | 22:13 |
| kristal | too bad sony killed otheros on the ps3, that would have propped up ppc demand | 22:13 |
| Noskcaj | kristal, yeah | 22:13 |
| kristal | PS4 and XboxOne are AMD APU, AMD64... I can't wait until one gets hacked and you can run Linux on it. | 22:14 |
| kristal | 8GB RAM, 8 weak cores, 1 pretty nice GPU | 22:14 |
| Noskcaj | :) | 22:14 |
| kristal | It'll be Xbox1 all over again. | 22:14 |
| Noskcaj | and linux gaming from the steam box | 22:14 |
| knome | can we take the non-devel talk to #xubuntu-offtopic? cheers. | 22:14 |
| Noskcaj | sure | 22:15 |
| kristal | Sorry to paster you about this, but I don't know if the feature exists. In window manger I don't see a keyboard shortcut to undecorate a window, is this not possible? | 22:44 |
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