[05:10] <Mirv> pitti: hello, how would be one packaging change ack? camera-app http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6178357/ - looks ok to me, other than changelog not mentioning that tests installation was also made optional
[05:10] <Mirv> that is, https://code.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/camera-app/trunk commits 200 and 201 (204 not included)
[05:37] <pitti> Mirv: it looks like the indentation in CMakeList would be broken
[05:38] <pitti> like, "function" now is indented (as it's now within the if), but not the endfuction
[05:38] <pitti> and the function body didn't get indented
[05:39] <pitti> otherwise, LGTM
[05:39] <Mirv> pitti: yes, that too, whitespace changed but not really fixed
[05:40] <Mirv> pitti: thanks for checking
[06:09] <Mirv> didrocks: morning! nvidia machine is down (from magners point of view), I've not been able to recover it. pinged QA 1.5h ago.
[06:10] <didrocks> Mirv: the CDU didn't work at all?
[06:10] <didrocks> (hey!)
[06:11] <Mirv> didrocks: the machine is there, jenkins-slave is running, but still it doesn't seem to be available for some reason
[06:11] <Mirv> didrocks: nevertheless, I'm starting to have libunity + scope-home tested as well, from the previous build
[06:11] <Mirv> (camera-app in release pocket already)
[06:11] <didrocks> Mirv: oh, camera-app is supposed to fix all the build failures?
[06:11] <didrocks> sorry
[06:11] <didrocks> the crash
[06:12] <didrocks> Mirv: ah, it's the raring nvidia machine which is down
[06:12] <didrocks> maybe you ssh to the wrong one :)
[06:12] <didrocks> Mirv: jenkins-slave wasn't started on that one, just did ;)
[06:13] <didrocks> (dx-autopilot-nvidia is raring)
[06:15] <Mirv> didrocks: on the landing plan camera-app is quoted to have infobindings via qml plugin (usermetrics), which it added and tests passed
[06:15] <didrocks> Mirv: yeah, we do have crashes though (so without that version) since image 71
[06:17] <Mirv> right, true, wrong nvidia.. I thought I was linked through a saucy job, though, so that's why the confusion
[06:17] <Mirv> but I guess not
[06:17] <didrocks> no worry ;)
[06:18] <didrocks> Mirv: juts continue rocking libunity + scope-home ;)
[06:20] <Mirv> packaging changes (managed to use the trick) http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Saucy/view/Unity/job/cu2d-unity-saucy-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_libunity_7.1.2+13.10.20131001-0ubuntu1.diff + http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Saucy/view/Unity/job/cu2d-unity-saucy-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_unity-scope-home_6.8.2+13.10.20131001-0ubuntu1.diff
[06:21] <Mirv> didrocks: robru has mentioned failing AP tests, but I see nothing unusual from the usual suspects. on desktop I've diff:d the 20130927 results to today's, and manual checked the additions to be false alarms. on touch unity8 AP is all ok.
[06:21] <didrocks> Mirv: good! +1 on libunity
[06:22] <didrocks> Mirv: and same on the home scope!
[06:22] <Mirv> ok, logging to magners to tweak *.project and then selectively publishing
[06:24] <didrocks> thanks!
[06:25] <didrocks> kenvandine: please, do not land stuff without the ack of the touch release team and a landing stack (regarding your content-hub landing)
[07:11] <didrocks> dpm: hey!
[07:11] <didrocks> dpm: how are you?
[07:11] <dpm> morning didrocks, good, good, and you?
[07:11] <didrocks> dpm: I'm fine thanks!
[07:11] <didrocks> dpm: I didn't follow if the seed change was done by ogra, did you follow up with him?
[07:12] <didrocks> dpm: also, a lot of click core apps have AP tests failures, can you ensure those are getting fixed?
[07:14] <dpm> didrocks, ok, will talk to balloons to take care of this
[07:14] <didrocks> thanks!
[07:14] <dpm> didrocks, the seeds change still needs review: https://code.launchpad.net/~dpm/ubuntu-seeds/rename-rssreader/+merge/187981 so it seems it hasn't happened yet
[07:14] <didrocks> ogra_: mind doing that one? ^
[07:15] <didrocks> dpm: the rename should be done at the same time than you, right?
[07:16] <dpm> didrocks, I had the details on the Asks sheet, but that row seems to have gone away. But in summary, the change in the app with the package rename needs to be shipped at the same time the package name change in the seeds
[07:17] <didrocks> dpm: are you ready? like if I do the seed change now, you can handle it in the next hour?
[07:17] <dpm> didrocks, ah, that's in row 83, it's not gone.
[07:18] <dpm> didrocks, I'm not sure what is left for me to do, but I'm happy to help with anything remaining. The app change has been merged into trunk, I don't know what is left for that to land into the images
[07:18] <didrocks> dpm: I don't know how you do release the core apps on your side
[07:18] <didrocks> who is doing that?
[07:19] <dpm> didrocks, that lands automatically into the core apps PPA, what happens after that to go into the images, I'm not familiar with
[07:19] <didrocks> dpm: ok, so please review the MP and approve it if you can and I do the seed change, sounds good?
[07:20] <dpm> didrocks, right, the app's MP has already been approved, that's what I'm trying to say. Or do you mean review and approve my own MP for the seeds?
[07:21] <didrocks> dpm: no, just ensure that the apps is going to be built
[07:21] <didrocks> dpm: so do whatever is needed through your process (not sure if you merge manually or whatever)
[07:21] <didrocks> I'm doing the seed change now
[07:23] <ogra_> dpm, didrocks sure, np
[07:24] <dpm> didrocks, that's all done automatically by jenkins. I can confirm that the package containing the package rename has been built on the core apps PPA -> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/+archive/daily/+packages?field.name_filter=rssreader&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=saucy
[07:24] <dpm> thanks ogra_
[07:24] <didrocks> ogra_: doing it, no worry ;)
[07:24] <didrocks> dpm: excellent!
[07:24] <dpm> ;)
[07:28] <didrocks> dpm: ogra_: uploaded
[07:29] <dpm> thanks didrocks!
[07:29] <ogra_> thx
[07:29] <didrocks> yw
[08:04] <Laney> guten morgen
[08:07] <mpt> charles, seb128: That's not an ubuntu-desktop issue, it's an ubuntu-touch issue. But it's an inevitable consequence of the combination of (1) space being too precious on a phone to show Bluetooth when you aren't using it, (2) every indicator having its own menu, and (3) a Bluetooth menu being much less useful without the ability to turn off Bluetooth. If I had my druthers, I'd change (2).
[08:10] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[08:10] <seb128> hey Laney, mpt
[08:11] <seb128> mpt, it's an issue on the desktop as well, it's confusing to see the bluetooth indicator go away when using the switch, it makes hard to undo the action
[08:11] <Laney> hey
[08:11]  * Laney has snap - i've got the power stuck in his head
[08:11]  * Laney looks around suspiciously
[08:11] <mpt> seb128, no it isn't. If it goes away on the desktop when you use the switch, that's a bug.
[08:13] <mpt> seb128, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bluetooth#PC
[08:15] <seb128> mpt, ok, then there is a bug, I'm going to check with Charles, thanks
[08:15] <mpt> seb128, it doesn't disappear when I turn Bluetooth off in 13.04, so that would be a regression.
[08:16] <seb128> mpt, I guess some bug in the convergent code
[08:40] <larsu> seb128: I think charles knows about it, I pointed him to that the other day. But another ping from you will probably make him fix it faster ;)
[08:42] <seb128> larsu, it's similar to an issue I discussed with charles yesterday, toggling the bluetooth switch in the battery settings panel is making the switch vanish
[08:42] <seb128> larsu, since we get the widget from the qmenumodel from the indicator
[08:43] <larsu> seb128: ha. Yeah, that's definitely bad UI...
[08:49]  * desrt yawns
[08:54] <seb128> desrt, ?!
[08:54] <seb128> desrt, GO TO BED
[08:55] <desrt> seb128: tried that.  can't sleep :p
[08:55] <desrt> (or rather, only slept for a few hours)
[08:56] <seb128> desrt, good "morning" then?
[08:56] <desrt> maybe.  i suspect that there will be a naptime today, though :)
[08:56]  * desrt notes that 4am is a nice time for reading bugs
[08:59] <pitti> seb128: btw, did you get the jenkins failure notification for e-d-s?
[09:00] <seb128> pitti, yes, seems a real bug, it's on my todo for today
[09:00] <seb128> pitti, thanks for checking
[09:00] <pitti> seb128: thanks, so the mail stuff is working
[09:00] <pitti> seb128: we had some people who apparently never got them, so I wanted to double-check
[09:00] <seb128> pitti, you were in Cc on the email btw
[09:00] <seb128> ok, wfm
[09:00] <seb128> it's not the first time I get some of those
[09:01] <pitti> and yay for tests discovering actual crashers :)
[09:01] <seb128> yep, what I though this morning ;-)
[09:18] <Sweetshark> Moin!
[09:18] <Sweetshark> seb128: I just uploaded rc3 to http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/saucy/4.1.2/
[09:18] <seb128> Sweetshark, hey, thanks!
[09:20] <Sweetshark> seb128: I did a full new tarball (not only a patch) as there were some more patches in there. Unfortunately I just found the *.changes file is not from 4.1.2~rc2 but from 4.1.1 :/
[09:20] <seb128> Sweetshark, so you need to fix it/ping be again in a bit?
[09:21] <Sweetshark> seb128: Im downloading for a armhf build right now (just to be sure) ...
[09:21] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok, let me know
[09:21] <Sweetshark> seb128: yeah, will fix, reupload and ping you then.
[09:21] <seb128> thanks
[09:24] <seb128> Laney, ok, so the cmake work from Jussi seems to be alright (I built/debdiffed/installed/tested all the panels)
[09:25] <seb128> Laney, did you have any extra comment/wanted to review? or should I just ack it?
[09:25] <Laney> seb128: no comments right now
[09:25] <Laney> didn't mardy say something yesterday or was that fixed?
[09:26] <seb128> Laney, that was fixed
[09:26] <seb128> let me approve it then
[09:27] <seb128> There was enough work done there, and mardy +1 it yesterday letting you or me to top approve next
[09:27] <Laney> ok, cool
[09:27] <Laney> does it work properly with qt creator? :-)
[09:28] <seb128> hum :/
[09:29] <seb128> Laney, not really
[09:29] <seb128> I opened the cmakelists.txt with qtcreator
[09:29] <seb128> it lists all the subdirs and cpp/h sources
[09:29] <seb128> but not the qml files
[09:29] <seb128> let me ask about that
[09:40] <Laney> seb128: I guess something like http://web.archiveorange.com/archive/v/bZBuSoeEqlT3VI1oQep4
[10:04] <seb128> dpm, hey
[10:05] <dpm> hey seb128, how's it going?
[10:05] <seb128> dpm, good, you?
[10:05] <seb128> dpm, I don't understand https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1232412 ... those are packages in Ubuntu main and translated for cycles no?
[10:05] <dpm> seb128, good too, spending some time on translations now
[10:05]  * dpm looks
[10:06] <seb128> what happened to da bot?
[10:06] <dpm> seb128, ah, I realised that might be confusing and I just added a comment for that: "In some projects, translations are already set up for trunk and in the source packages, but they need to be set up for the phablet branch"
[10:07] <seb128> dpm, there is no phablet branch, all indicators converged codebase this cycle
[10:07] <seb128> dpm, it's the same source/build/template for both touch and desktop
[10:07] <seb128> they are just different codepaths in the same source
[10:07] <Laney> the bot died and jpds is the only person who can fix it, apparently
[10:08] <Laney> and he hasn't been responding
[10:08] <dpm> seb128, aha, I didn't know that. So in some cases it might just be that a .pot template update is necessary, and in some (e.g. indicator-location) the full setup is needed
[10:08] <seb128> ok
[10:08] <seb128> dpm, right
[10:08] <seb128> dpm, let me comment on the bug
[10:08] <dpm> let me go through the list
[10:08] <dpm> perfect, thanks
[10:08] <seb128> yw
[10:11] <Laney> bah
[10:11] <Laney> u-s-s doesn't have good enough depends
[10:11] <Laney> no schema abort
[10:14] <dpm> seb128, looking at indicator-bluetooth, the last .pot file update was 2013-03-02, whereas the latest upload was a few days ago. Do you know if dh_translations is working there?
[10:17] <seb128> Laney, on the keyboard stuff?
[10:17] <Laney> yeah
[10:18] <seb128> Laney, shrug, I tried it yesterday evening with the current saucy version and that worked
[10:18] <Laney> yes, it does
[10:18] <seb128> dpm, still and always https://bugs.launchpad.net/langpack-o-matic/+bug/1201485
[10:18] <Laney> but I didn't have current
[10:18] <seb128> Laney, oh ok
[10:18] <seb128> Laney, well they merged it, reverted and added it back
[10:18] <Laney> also there are binding loops in that code
[10:18] <seb128> dpm, I'm doing manual updates
[10:19] <seb128> Laney, right, it's not perfect but that was up for review for like a month and people were getting really eager to get it merged to I let it in
[10:19] <Laney> righto
[10:19] <Laney> I'll file a bug
[10:19] <seb128> Laney, we can fix issues in further merge requests
[10:19] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[10:19] <dpm> seb128, ok, thanks. Do we have a list of packages that come from the Unity daily builds and that are affected by that bug?
[10:20] <seb128> dpm, no, it's like an hundred source
[10:20] <seb128> dpm, everything coming from #ps basically (unity, scopes, lenses, friends, etc etc etc)
[10:20] <dpm> seb128, I'm not familiar with the Unity daily builds. Do they land in a PPA I could have a look to have a rough idea of the packages?
[10:20] <dpm> ok
[10:21] <seb128> dpm, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build
[10:21] <seb128> dpm, everything in there
[10:21] <dpm> thanks
[10:21] <seb128> yw
[10:21] <seb128> dpm, note that the launchpad bug is "fix commited"
[10:21] <seb128> dpm, so hopefully that's resolved soon
[10:22] <seb128> dpm, well, it was, Colin found an issue and Ursula is doing another round of fixing
[10:24] <dpm> seb128, yeah, I noticed that. This means once that LP bug is fixed translations for things like Unity8 which are currently shipped in the package will be stripped and unless we enable phone language packs they no longer be shipped on the phone, correct?
[10:24] <dpm> they *will no longer, I meant, sorry
[10:25] <seb128> dpm, no
[10:25] <seb128> dpm, we only strip things in main, until those are promoted they are not going to be stripped
[10:26] <dpm> seb128, ah, ok, didn't realise they were not in main. So they're not going to be promoted for 13.10?
[10:26] <seb128> dpm, not that I know, too much review work to happen
[10:26] <seb128> ogra_, ^ do you know?
[10:27] <dpm> seb128, but are the indicators not in main already?
[10:27] <seb128> dpm, they are, and they get stripped
[10:28] <seb128> unity8 doesn't
[10:28] <dpm> ok, I'm starting to get the full picture now
[10:28] <ogra_> you mean for touch ?
[10:28] <seb128> ogra_, do we plan to promote all the touch sources for saucy?
[10:28] <ogra_> i dont think we'll go for MIRing everything
[10:28] <ogra_> thats for 14.04
[10:28] <seb128> k, what I though
[10:28] <seb128> ogra_, danke
[10:28] <ogra_> :)
[10:54] <pitti> seb128: hm, gnome-terminal still depends on libgconf; aside from libo and network-manager-gnome that seems like the only GNOMEish thing left?
[10:56] <pitti> oh, quite a lot of packages depend on gconf2, but not on the lib
[10:59] <pstolowski> didrocks: hey again, can we get this UIFFE ack'ed? https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-lens-applications/+bug/1231556
[11:00] <didrocks> pstolowski: I'm not hacking UIFe, you need to wait on the release team to answer on it
[11:00] <didrocks> pstolowski: and the documentation team (if it's an UIFe) as per documentation
[11:00] <didrocks> you can ping them on #ubuntu-release I guess
[11:00] <didrocks> acking*
[11:01] <pstolowski> didrocks: understood, thanks
[11:01] <didrocks> yw
[11:01] <Laney> You're supposed to email them
[11:01] <Laney> pstolowski: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserInterfaceFreeze
[11:02] <seb128> pitti, yeah, I didn't follow those depreciations for a while, we should look at those again before the lts
[11:02] <Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#UserInterfaceFreeze_Exceptions
[11:02] <pstolowski> Laney: thanks
[11:02] <Laney> g-t is fixed upstraem
[11:10] <Sweetshark> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/saucy/4.1.2/libreoffice_4.1.2~rc3-0ubuntu1_source.changes <- should be good to go
[11:10] <seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
[11:21] <seb128> oh, a sil2100
[11:21] <seb128> sil2100, internet is back? ;-)
[11:26] <sil2100> Yes!
[11:28] <seb128> sil2100, how are you? had a productive morning without IRC noise? ;-)
[11:31] <seb128> dpm, ok, I updated the template ... we should maybe standardize on having translations enabled on the upstream project with autocommits to trunk for those though
[11:31] <dpm> seb128, +1, I was going to suggest that too
[11:32] <seb128> dpm, rather than relying on thing to land in ubuntu to be imported back
[11:32] <seb128> dpm, but that's not likely going to change before v1, other priorities
[11:32] <dpm> ack
[11:34] <dpm> it might make sense to do it for the projects where we're enabling translations for the first time, as in indicator-location, it doesn't take more than 2 mins.
[11:34] <seb128> right
[11:34] <dpm> but yeah, for the rest it makes sense to do them all at once with some coordination
[11:34] <dpm> after release
[11:34] <sil2100> Ok, but it seems there are still some internet issues...
[12:41] <Laney> seb128: Do you think http://ubuntuone.com/6Z6epvhvXWGXUOMkIJyoLW looks weird?
[12:42] <seb128> Laney, very much so
[12:42] <seb128> Laney, what do you think?
[12:42] <Laney> We have some long titles
[12:42] <Laney> Security & Privacy / Language & Text
[12:42] <Laney> they don't fit properly
[12:42] <pitti> Laney, seb128: will one of the two language options disappear from control-center for saucy?
[12:43] <seb128> pitti, yes, there is a merge request up for that, it just needed some small tweaks
[12:43] <pitti> cool
[12:43] <seb128> pitti, bug #1232051
[12:43] <seb128> pitti, hopefully that goes in today or tomorrow
[12:44] <seb128> Laney, it feels like we could fit 3 icons in that layout
[12:44] <seb128> Laney, maybe we need to wrap the text for those?
[12:48] <Laney> I think I tried that and it looked weird
[12:48] <Laney> let me see
[12:49] <seb128> Laney, well, what looks weird in that screen are the left/right margins imho
[12:50] <seb128> mpt, ^ do you have an opinion on the screenshot from Laney/how to deal with the long titles issues in the settings grid?
[12:50] <Laney> you mean <-x->[ ]<-x->[ ]<-x-> might be ok?
[12:50] <Laney> let me try the wrapping on device
[12:51] <seb128> yeah
[12:51] <Laney> building it, lunch time
[12:51] <seb128> or at least smaller margins on the left and right
[12:51] <seb128> Laney, enjoy!
[12:51] <mpt> seb128, yes, I think (a) they should use a smaller font and (b) they should wrap to two lines.
[12:52] <seb128> mpt, the (a) is all the titles or just the long ones?
[12:52] <mpt> seb128, all of them.
[12:52] <seb128> k
[12:52] <seb128> I guess that's easy to change
[12:52] <seb128> Laney, ^
[12:53] <seb128> mpt, thanks
[12:53] <seb128> that's worth a try ;-)
[13:28] <kenvandine> didrocks, ??? i didn't publish it
[13:28] <kenvandine> i just built the stack so it would get in the ppa, so gallery-app could build
[13:29] <didrocks> kenvandine: yeah, we figured it out, it's robru
[13:29] <didrocks> kenvandine: sad that it was built just before you added the Breaks :p
[13:30] <kenvandine> it built again though
[13:30] <didrocks> kenvandine: sorry for the bad pointing, I was thinking it was you as we didn't mention publishing content-hub to him :)
[13:30] <kenvandine> no worries
[13:56] <Laney> seb128: interesting, will try
[13:57] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[14:29] <seb128> ok, 1h before meeting
[14:29] <Laney> seb128: mpt: http://ubuntuone.com/6xg7KPADFbsuln5dcuTDz6
[14:29] <seb128> time for some exercice, I should be back just for the meeting
[14:30] <seb128> Laney, not sure I would say it's perfect, but seems good enough for me
[14:30] <seb128> it's much better than the previous version at least
[14:30] <Laney> I wonder if it fixes the issue on maguro
[14:30] <Laney> who has one of those?
[14:30] <seb128> ogra_ I think
[14:30] <seb128> not me at least
[14:30] <seb128> I've grouper and mako
[14:30] <seb128> Laney, but you can try on your desktop by just resizing the win
[14:31] <Laney> yeah I guess
[14:31] <seb128> or emulate the maguro case by giving a width that makes it looks like the bug screenshot
[14:31] <seb128> then try your version
[14:31] <Laney> I can make it cut off
[14:31] <seb128> on that note, really out, back in ~1h
[14:31] <Laney> hf
[14:38] <mpt> Laney, better. :-) I still think it should wrap to two lines, though ... Currently with those two at the right edge, and nothing similarly long at the left edge, it looks like the whole grid is indented.
[14:38] <Laney> mpt: you mean that the text should be the same size as the icon?
[14:38] <Laney> or how long?
[14:39] <mpt> Laney, not quite that narrow, for sure ... I don't know how long the German for "Security & Privacy" is. :-)
[14:41] <Laney> hmm
[14:41] <Laney> it's hard because we only define the maximum size
[14:42] <mpt> Yeah, sorry for the hand-waving
[14:43] <Laney> There's also a problem with the algorithm to choose the number of columns
[14:43] <Laney> it lets icons go off the right hand side
[14:52] <Laney> Actually
[14:52] <Laney> I was testing with the wrong branch :(
[14:52] <Laney> Wrapping works properly so there's just the right margin thing
[14:52]  * Laney thinks
[14:52] <didrocks> fginther: hey, is the queue long? https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/ubuntu-system-settings/revert_reverted/+merge/188371
[14:53] <fginther> didrocks, yes, very. if you need it right away, I can bump the priority
[14:53] <didrocks> fginther: please, we are waiting on this
[15:05] <Laney> mpt: I made it smaller and now it looks like http://ubuntuone.com/2SsPlFWctwyj8IWMt7qVSl on desktop
[15:05] <Laney> is the horizontal centre alignment good?
[15:06] <mpt> Laney, zoom that screenshot out to be the size of your own phone. Too small. :-/
[15:06] <Laney> the phone will be narrower
[15:06] <Laney> I think it'll have three columns
[15:07] <mpt> ah, that explains it. :-)
[15:07] <Laney> is there weird spacing around Security & Privacy?
[15:07] <Laney> it's hard to tell for sure
[15:25] <didrocks> fginther: not any better for system-settings?
[15:26] <fginther> didrocks, it's better, there was an MP already building in front of ken's
[15:26] <didrocks> ok
[15:26] <fginther> didrocks, ken's is next in line
[15:26] <didrocks> great ;)
[15:28] <seb128> back
[15:30] <seb128> hey
[15:30] <seb128> it's meeting time!
[15:30] <qengho> Aiee!
[15:30] <mlankhorst> aieee!
[15:30] <seb128> qengho, Sweetshark, mlankhorst, Laney, tkamppeter, desrt, attente, larsu: hello
[15:31] <larsu> hello.
[15:31] <Laney> ahoy
[15:31] <mlankhorst> I have to go soon sadly. :P
[15:31] <desrt> hihi
[15:31] <larsu> meeting time \o/
[15:32] <seb128> let's get started
[15:32] <seb128> desrt, welcome on board ;-)
[15:32] <desrt> thanks :D
[15:32] <seb128> qengho, your turn
[15:32]  * desrt still hasn't signed anything yet ;)
[15:32] <tkamppeter> hi
[15:32] <qengho> * Done: some new-tab page work in chromium-browser.  To-do: More for search.
[15:32] <qengho> * In progress: c-b can sometimes hang on exit, causing next launch not to open locked profile.
[15:32] <qengho> * To-do: Update stable dists to what's in saucy *for real this time*.
[15:32] <qengho> EOL
[15:33] <seb128> qengho, is saucy good to go at this point? or do you plan other update/change before release?
[15:33] <qengho> seb128: Saucy is good enough.  There's one version released since, but not important.
[15:33] <seb128> ok
[15:33] <seb128> qengho, thanks
[15:34] <seb128> Sweetshark, hey
[15:34] <seb128> Sweetshark, I sponsored 4.2.1 rc3 earlier today, it's in the unapproved queue for review
[15:34] <Sweetshark> seb128: \o/
[15:34] <Sweetshark> seb128: other than that: conference, conference decompression and after action
[15:35] <seb128> was the conf any good?
[15:35] <Sweetshark> seb128: awesome. Lots of LO migrations in Italy going on and picking up momentum.
[15:35] <seb128> great
[15:36] <Sweetshark> seb128: also the mobile stuff CloudOn is doing with LO is ... interesting.
[15:36] <seb128> Sweetshark, do you have other changes planned to land before saucy or are we good with today's upload?
[15:36] <Sweetshark> seb128: ... and I might get a ssh login to a 9600 core, 3.8TB RAM cluster -- to build LibreOffice.
[15:36] <seb128> lol
[15:36] <seb128> crazyness
[15:37] <seb128> that's at the opposite of the mobile stuff :p
[15:37] <Laney> emulate armhf on it
[15:37] <Sweetshark> seb128: nothing totally urgent for saucy anymore, just cleanup and preparations for the next round ...
[15:38] <seb128> ok, great
[15:38] <seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
[15:38] <seb128> mlankhorst, hey
[15:38] <mlankhorst> sorry got to go.. but glamor-egl is now in the archive \o/ it broke things in 2 separate places bug #1232658 and bug #1232000 -- fixed now and uploaded, but a real fun to debug abi issue. I've been helping mir people with some issues related to nested mir in mesa. Annoying one too.. and of course I did some updates to the nouveau bios code after recent nvidia releases. \o/
[15:38] <Sweetshark> seb128: opposite of mobile -- yes, actually they had delays, because the cluster was supposed to be watercooled and the building wasnt up to the weight as they found out later ....
[15:38] <seb128> lol
[15:38] <seb128> mlankhorst, thanks
[15:39] <seb128> Laney, your turn
[15:39] <Laney> yay
[15:39] <Laney> • Investigate policykit/timedated failures on the phone; identify some problems (policykit-desktop-privileges being wrong, ro filesystem breaking updates) and fix/discuss fixes (thanks to pi tti for helping a lot)
[15:39] <Laney> • Bug fixes to measure-real-directory-size branch; got merged (one still outstanding: https://code.launchpad.net/~laney/ubuntu-system-settings/battery-percentage-indicator/+merge/188286)
[15:39] <Laney> • Make the wifi toggle in the battery panel dynamic
[15:39] <Laney> • Translation fixes
[15:39] <Laney> • Kill the SettingsCheckEntry
[15:39] <Laney> • Investigate bug where app doesn't fit properly (bug #1223827), building a prospective fix now
[15:39] <Laney> • Update glib-networking with autopkgtest
[15:39] <Laney> • Some FFe triaging
[15:39] <Laney> • Some sponsoring
[15:39] <Laney> • Some queue reviews
[15:39] <Laney> • Trying and failing to push GStreamer 1.2.0. Still stuck.
[15:39] <Laney> \0
[15:40] <mlankhorst> \o/
[15:40] <Laney> Actually maybe the gst 1.2.0 packaging happened last week too
[15:40] <seb128> Laney, thanks, crazy week again ;-)
[15:40] <Laney> mlankhorst: you didn't go
[15:41] <Laney> huh, I think I might have forgotten to add XS-Testsuite to glib-networking
[15:41]  * Laney checks
[15:41] <seb128> tkamppeter, hey
[15:42] <tkamppeter>  - CUPS: Merged in upstram fixes of 1.6.3 -> 1.6.4 transition into our 1.7rc1 as 1.7.0 final will only come with next Mac OS X release.
[15:42] <tkamppeter>  - CUPS: Applied patches of Joe Simon's GSoC 2013 project "CUPS Color Management Extensions" to our CUPS 1.7rc1 package for Saucy and uploaded it to my PPA. Please test.
[15:42] <tkamppeter>  - Cairo: Backported an upstream fix so that Cairo avoids transparency in its PDF output if possible. This avoids problems of slow printing or print failures, especially on PostScript printers.
[15:42] <tkamppeter>  - Discussion with Didier Raboud (OdyX) from Debian about CUPS "make test" failures depending on cups-filters
[15:42] <tkamppeter>  - Contacted Brother to continue work on auto-downloadable drivers
[15:42] <tkamppeter>  - OpenPrinting web server: Started coordination to get GSoC work (for printer entry contribution by users) in and to get a new forum
[15:42] <tkamppeter>  - Bugs
[15:42] <tkamppeter>  - GSoC: Final evaluations
[15:42] <Laney> (indeed, /me sucks)
[15:42] <desrt> tkamppeter: tell brother i love their printers and their drivers are great, but ya... downloading them from that site is a huge pain.
[15:43] <tkamppeter> desrt, Brother's drivers are awkward, there is an LPD driver and a CUPS wrapper. Is it still this way?
[15:43] <desrt> tkamppeter: yes.  and the cups one depends on the lpd one, and there is no indication of that on the site
[15:43] <desrt> so you have to manually install one .deb, then the other
[15:44] <desrt> annoying and awkward... but they work totally fine after you get them installed
[15:44] <desrt> except that their drivers seem to call their printers like BPM1234 whereas ubuntu calls them like BPM-1234 which prevents them from being automatically found during setup
[15:44] <desrt> so that's another minor nag to look at...
[15:47] <seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
[15:47] <seb128> desrt, your turn ;-)
[15:47] <desrt> i started yesterday, so i didn't do anything yet
[15:47] <desrt> :)
[15:47] <larsu> ha
[15:47] <desrt> but seriously...
[15:47] <desrt> dealt with a bit of glib bug backlog -- reviews, patches
[15:47] <desrt> getting a few branches ready for merge now that we're branched
[15:48] <desrt> did some more work on the desktop file branch... it's now works also for the non-indexed case, and it's pretty much complete.... i hope to merge that one this week after a rebase and writing some testcases
[15:48] <desrt> next up for merges are gsubprocess and the current state of the action descriptions work
[15:48] <desrt> i also spent some time tracking down and fixing a size allocation bug in gtk that was causing gnome-session-properties to crash
[15:49] <seb128> (thanks for that one, the gtk update is in saucy since yesterday, confirmed to work)
[15:49] <desrt> oh... and that user classification cleanup patch i did for accountsservice just went upstream today
[15:49] <seb128> \o/
[15:49] <desrt> eof, i think
[15:49] <seb128> desrt, thanks!
[15:49] <seb128> attente, hey
[15:50] <attente> seb128, hi.. no updates from me, just bugs
[15:50] <attente> also really bad internet right now...
[15:50] <seb128> attente, well, your system settings merge went in yesterday
[15:50] <seb128> attente, so good work ;-)
[15:50] <attente> seb128, i saw, thanks!
[15:50] <Laney> I filed a bug for you :P
[15:50] <seb128> attente, can you get the g-c-c rename done today?
[15:50] <desrt> attente: yes/no: will you do that g-c-c work to help the accountsservice patch for keyboard layout to go upstream?
[15:51] <Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1233594
[15:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1233594 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "[language] Binding loop" [Undecided,New]
[15:51] <seb128> desrt, attente: please after release, we have enough bugs backlog for the next week to focus on bug fixing
[15:51] <Laney> oh hey, the bot works again
[15:51] <desrt> seb128: fair enough
[15:51] <attente> desrt, i'm working on a patch that adds fields for the login and session current source
[15:51] <desrt> attente: you're going to store the current source in the accountsservice?
[15:51]  * desrt doesn't like the sounds of that
[15:51] <Laney> what's the g-c-c rename?
[15:52] <desrt> attente: let's talk after...
[15:52] <mitya57> attente: Hi, can I ask you to comment on bug 1218322 and bug 1218327? These two currently break all my Saucy experience…
[15:52] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1218322 in indicator-keyboard (Ubuntu) "Can't set keyboard layout change to ctrl+shift" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1218322
[15:52] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1218327 in indicator-keyboard (Ubuntu) "Keyboard shortcuts not working on russian layout" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1218327
[15:52]  * desrt notes that attente is mr. popular at this meeting
[15:52] <attente> mitya57, the second is next on my todo
[15:52] <seb128> Laney, restoring our patch that renames "region & language" to "keyboard layout" under Unity
[15:52] <Laney> ah
[15:52] <seb128> Laney, it got dropped in saucy by error
[15:53] <seb128> Laney, we have 2 language icons atm in g-c-c which looks weird
[15:53] <Laney> yes
[15:53] <Laney> I thought you meant /the/ g-c-c rename
[15:53] <Laney> you know, /that one/
[15:53] <attente> seb128, i think it's done
[15:53] <seb128> lol
[15:53] <mitya57> attente: great, thanks in advance :)
[15:53] <seb128> attente, great, I'm going to review it again in a bit then
[15:53] <seb128> attente, thanks
[15:53] <seb128> Laney, yeah, but no :p
[15:53] <desrt> attente: /the/ rename is a pretty trivial affair... you can probably squeeze that one in after lunch
[15:53] <seb128> let's not start trolling ;-)
[15:53] <seb128> larsu, hey
[15:54] <Laney> haha
[15:54] <attente> wait, what's the rename?
[15:54] <larsu> seb128: bugsbugsbugsbugs
[15:54] <larsu> - fixed ubiquity panel issue
[15:54] <larsu> - fixed brightness slider issue in qmenumodel (setting 0 and 1 didn't work)
[15:54] <desrt> attente: gnome-control-center -> ubuntu-control-center
[15:54] <larsu> - made indicator-sound reconnect to pulse if pulse restarts
[15:54] <Laney> attente: s/gnome/ubuntu/
[15:54] <larsu> - fixed a bug where the volume slider in ido generated too many dbus messages
[15:54] <attente> oh..
[15:54] <larsu> - tracked down and fixed two stack corruption bugs in indicator-messages that produced bugs on the phone
[15:54] <larsu> - tried to find a potential dconf/gsettings/gsettings-qt bug in unity8 (didn't find anything, though. Looks like a stack corruption somewhere else)
[15:54] <larsu> - a few more small fixes to indicator-related projects

[15:54] <seb128> larsu, thanks
[15:54] <desrt> larsu: i strongly suspect that bug has nothing to do with dconf, fwiw
[15:54] <seb128> larsu, do you still have spare capacity for bug fixing in the next week or so?
[15:55] <seb128> larsu, just to know if I should stop pinging you with my issues ... ;-)
[15:55] <larsu> seb128: yes, I will continue to fix bugs
[15:55] <larsu> please ping me
[15:55] <seb128> cool
[15:55] <larsu> all my time will be fixing bugs :)
[15:55] <larsu> desrt: let's see if they can produce a god backtrace. I can't reproduce the issue myself
[15:55] <desrt> seb128: btw: if you have more bugs like the gnome-session-properties one you can feel free to throw them my way.... i have a lot of work right now, but it's all fairly low-priority long-deadline stuff
[15:56] <seb128> desrt, ok, noted, thanks
[15:56] <Laney> oh GAH my SSH session to the nexus 7 died towards the end of a clean u-s-s build
[15:56] <seb128> I'm going to have a look to the error tracker later and I might dispatch a few bugs from the list
[15:56] <desrt> and i'm sure larsu might appreciate a little less load :p
[15:56]  * Laney stabs stuff
[15:56] <seb128> Laney, use screen Luke
[15:56] <Laney> screen is like backups
[15:57] <seb128> desrt, yeah, probably ;-)
[15:57] <seb128> ok, my turn
[15:57] <seb128> * Settings:
[15:57] <seb128> - added extra widgets/UIs to the list of non implemented feature/to hide
[15:57] <seb128> - some UI tweaks and bug fixes
[15:57] <seb128> - debugged issues with the background selector/content-hub, reverted uploads, helped to get the code back in (once fixed)/tested
[15:57] <seb128> * Updated translation templates for some of the sources that were outdated (mostly indicators)
[15:57] <seb128> * some GNOME updates
[15:57]  * desrt hands deja-ecran to Laney 
[15:57] <seb128> * some sponsoring
[15:57] <seb128> * tested/upload gtk fix from desrt
[15:57] <seb128> * reverted g-s-d buggy patch added to force disable working options (those that gtk 3.10 drops)
[15:57] <seb128> * some bug fixes for saucy

[15:58]  * Laney spots sil2100 approving merges hours after he already did
[15:58] <Laney> strange :P
[15:58] <Mirv> Laney: he just mentioned his connection is having lags ;)
[15:58] <seb128> oh, also as an headup
[15:58] <seb128> I might push to stay on GNOME 3.8 next cycle for the LTS
[15:59] <seb128> the focus is going to keep being touch work
[15:59] <sil2100> Laney: hohoho, I see now that it got approved ;)
[15:59] <sil2100> Laney: my fault for not pressing refresh before testing and approving!
[15:59] <seb128> it seems like RHEL7 might ship with that version as well
[16:00] <seb128> so it would make sense to have our LTS on the same version they do
[16:00] <Laney> what about libs?
[16:00] <seb128> same story
[16:00] <seb128> we would benefit to have the same serie
[16:01] <seb128> since it's eventually what upstream is going to call 'LTS'
[16:01] <seb128> well, we have time for discussion
[16:02] <seb128> but I think it would make sense, since it would lower work on that front/let us focus on touch, and make sense for maintainability to align with RHEL
[16:02] <seb128> we still have time to discuss that anyway
[16:03] <seb128> I just wanted to mention it, in case people were to start on planning 3.10 work
[16:03] <seb128>  
[16:03] <seb128> ok
[16:03] <Laney> I'd definitely want input from ubuntu gnome
[16:03] <seb128> is there any question/comments/...?
[16:03] <Laney> but yeah, lots of time
[16:03] <seb128> sure, me too
[16:04] <seb128> but I'm not wanting to compromise on our LTS quality just for Ubuntu GNOME to be able to be on the most recent version
[16:05] <seb128> we can probably do the "fork g-c-c and g-s-d" next cycle
[16:05] <seb128> that should give them some flexibility
[16:05] <seb128> ok, seems there is no meeting topic
[16:05] <seb128> thanks everyone!
[16:06] <Laney> cheers
[16:13] <Laney> mpt: http://ubuntuone.com/5r8RFDEsKkQO5l19prNjsN
[16:13] <Laney> too small?
[16:13] <Laney> does it look misaligned still to you?
[16:16] <ritz_> larsu , hi, where can I see the code for  brightness slider / qmenumodel ( where is this lp ) ?
[16:17] <larsu> ritz_: the brightness slider is in ubuntu-system-settings/plugins/battery/PageComponent.qml
[16:17] <larsu> it uses qmenumodel to talk to indicator-power
[16:17] <larsu> which actually sets the brightness
[16:19] <seb128> Laney, I'm going to write a short email on the GNOME/GTK version topic, do you think ubuntu-desktop@ is enough or should I cross post to the GNOME remix list (I don't like much cross posting on lists)
[16:20] <ritz_> larsu thank you :)
[16:20] <Laney> seb128: jbicha ricotz and darkxst all read u-desktop I'm sure
[16:20] <seb128> Laney, right, what I though, should be enough
[16:20] <sil2100> Damn
[16:21] <seb128> Laney, on that most recent screenshot the left/right margin looks big to me...
[16:21] <seb128> sil2100, what?
[16:21] <Laney> it sure does
[16:21] <Laney> I think if you evened out the spacing they would all look big though
[16:21] <Laney> maybe
[16:23] <seb128> Laney, imho the left/right borders should be half the spacing from the middle
[16:23] <seb128> e.g
[16:23] <seb128> [s i s][s i s][s i s]
[16:23] <seb128> where s = space and i = icon
[16:23] <seb128> you have 3 blocks like that
[16:23] <Laney> mmm
[16:23] <seb128> so side should be half the space between icons
[16:23] <seb128> wdyt?
[16:24] <Laney> sooooooooooooooo s = (width - (columnWidth * columns)) / columns
[16:24] <Laney> or something
[16:25] <mpt> Laney, that looks reasonable. Is the font size you're using the same as the size used for caption elements?
[16:26] <Laney> mpt: don't know
[16:26] <Laney> mpt: it's "small"
[16:26] <mpt> Laney, can you find out? I wouldn't want to be using a size that is nearly identical but not quite. :-)
[16:27] <seb128> Laney, what is "columnwidth"? the width of the element without the spacing?
[16:27] <Laney> the size of each element
[16:28] <seb128> do you still try using the widget from the unity guys? (I don't know how that works)
[16:28] <seb128> I think I would have done something like that
[16:28] <seb128> if width = gu(40): ncolumn = 2
[16:28] <Laney> I couldn't get it crowbarred in
[16:28] <seb128> if width > gu(40) && with < gu(60): ncolumn = 3
[16:29] <seb128> if > gu(60): ncolumn = 4
[16:29] <Laney> mpt: yeah, it's the same
[16:29] <seb128> widthElement=width/ncolumn
[16:29] <mpt> excellent
[16:29] <seb128> and then iWidth=0.6*withElement
[16:29] <Laney> mpt: you don't think the borders are too big then?
[16:29] <seb128> sWidth=0.2*widthElement
[16:29] <seb128> Laney, ^ if that somewhat makes sense
[16:30] <seb128> it seems a bit hackish, but I don't find a better solution
[16:30] <mpt> Laney, I'm not sure what you mean by "border". It would be easier to tell if I could see the edges of the box available for each label.
[16:30] <seb128> mpt, http://ubuntuone.com/5r8RFDEsKkQO5l19prNjsN ... does it looks like too much space on the left and right?
[16:30] <Laney> well, this is how you'll see it
[16:30] <seb128> mpt, (it does for me)
[16:30] <mpt> yes
[16:33] <Laney> let me try that idea
[16:33] <mpt> seb128, Laney: I'd expect the gap between {the left edge of the screen} and {the left edge of the first icon} to be exactly the same as the gap between {the right edge of the first icon} and {the left edge of the second icon}. Does that make sense?
[16:33] <mpt> But it's hard to tell because so many of the icons don't have square proportions.
[16:33] <Laney> so you want them evenly spaced?
[16:34] <seb128> mpt, no, it doesn't
[16:34] <seb128> Laney, mpt: I would do that http://paste.ubuntu.com/6180255/
[16:34] <seb128> mpt, to me it's a "[s i s][s i s][s i s]" layout (s=space,i=icon)
[16:34] <seb128> mpt, if you look at e.g nautilus it seems that the left/right space value are half of the one between elements
[16:35] <mpt> So that's why Nautilus is so ugly! ;-)
[16:36] <seb128> lol
[16:37] <mpt> The items are more related to each other than they are to the screen edges. So they should be at least as close to each other as they are to the screen edges.
[16:37] <mpt> [s i s][s i s] results in 1s around the outside and 2s in the middle, which is, if anything, the wrong way round
[16:37] <seb128> mpt, well, equal spacing leads you to http://ubuntuone.com/5r8RFDEsKkQO5l19prNjsN
[16:38] <seb128> which just looks wrong to me
[16:38] <seb128> but maybe it's only me
[16:38] <Laney> I had an earlier one with equal spacing everywhere
[16:38] <seb128> it also works better with more element (e.g the unity dash)
[16:39] <Laney> http://ubuntuone.com/1BcJlcaQPQHlYtfTLTmydK
[16:39] <mpt> It looks wrong because the spacing is so large, not because the gap is misallocated.
[16:39] <Laney> something like that
[16:40] <seb128> that's still a lot of spacing
[16:40] <seb128> but yeah, that one with half the value for the spacing maybe
[16:40] <Laney> that's what you described
[16:40] <seb128> the 20% 60%?
[16:41] <Laney> no, the internal spacing is twice the margin
[16:41] <Laney> sissis
[16:41] <seb128> ah, right, well, the s value is too high
[16:41] <seb128> imho
[16:42] <seb128> Laney, that's an old design I got back then from the designers, http://ubuntuone.com/7D4aVJyRYLOWmogBvmXVB3
[16:43] <Laney> it probably looks a lot better with the borders
[16:43] <seb128> yeah :/
[16:43] <Laney> a lot of the problems we have now are because the things look weirdly sized
[16:44] <seb128> Laney, can you tell me which one you think is right? I'm just writing an email to the design guys who send me the screenshots I shared the other day
[16:44] <seb128> Laney, I'm going to include that in my question/ask if they have a visual for the grid
[16:44] <Laney> trying mpt's idea now
[16:44] <Laney> 2x on the margins, x internally
[16:45] <seb128> looking to that screenshot I just copied and to the dash, I guess design is going to want equal spacing everywhere
[16:45] <seb128> that looks fine in the dash, but I think it helps that there is more content
[16:49] <Laney> I think I got it, maybe
[16:49] <Laney> equal spacing, that is
[16:50] <Laney> https://ubuntuone.com/7O0KGnzFE0T0DVgDNETR0G
[16:52] <seb128> Laney, looks good to me, could you just for the sake of it do a similar version with the spacing value a bit lower?
[16:52] <seb128> like half of it
[16:52] <Laney> ok, sec
[16:53] <Laney> drawing diagrams to work each one out
[16:55]  * didrocks doesn't understand why when shutting down the phone reboots sometimes
[16:58] <ogra_> didrocks, worth a bug
[16:58] <ogra_> (if you used shtdown at least)
[16:58] <ogra_> *shut
[16:59] <didrocks> ogra_: yeah, I will try to reproduce it reliably first
[17:02] <seb128> fginther, is the merger supposed to be a fifo?
[17:03] <seb128> fginther, we just got some recent changes merged in before others that are waiting for hours on the same project
[17:04] <seb128> fginther, ignore that, I skipped some emails it seems
[17:09] <seb128> mpt, what should the battery panel display as "last full charge:" (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Power#Phone) if the device just got unplugged is still at 100%?
[17:09] <Laney> seb128: https://ubuntuone.com/7hFiOAHWEhbC89AFQDl9Yk
[17:10] <Laney> my equations got pretty grim
[17:10] <seb128> mpt, oh, "Fully charged", it's in there
[17:10] <seb128> mpt, ignore me :p
[17:10] <seb128> Laney, it's hard to see the difference with the previous one
[17:10] <Laney> sure is
[17:12]  * Laney tries a simpler way
[17:12] <seb128> Laney, well that's probably good enough, if you are happy with it let's merge it in and ask for feedback from design?
[17:13]  * didrocks waves good evening and good night
[17:15] <Laney> seb128: OK, I'll clean it up and try on the phone in the morning
[17:19] <seb128> Laney, great, let me know if you want me to test as well
[17:31] <desrt> seb128: got some pretty good agreement with the gnome guys about how we're going to be handling keyboard layouts
[17:31] <seb128> desrt, good, how are we going to handle those? ;-)
[17:31] <desrt> we're going to end up with a pretty clean setup here
[17:31] <desrt> we're dropping the gsettings and moving to pure accountsservice
[17:32] <desrt> and having a session service (probably in g-s-d) to take care of all of the details, so things like the shell and the code in g-c-c can be fairly dumb
[17:32] <desrt> just talking to a simple dbus interface
[17:33] <desrt> attente: we'll almost certainly have a small hackfest in montreal about this topic
[17:33] <seb128> desrt, is the logic complex enough that we need a service?
[17:33] <seb128> desrt, well, I trust you there, let's see what it ends up looking like
[17:33] <desrt> seb128: it's not that it's super-complex, but rather that there are quite a lot of moving parts
[17:34] <desrt> lightdm, g-s-d, g-c-c, the switcher indicator, accountsservice
[17:34] <seb128> desrt, btw, in case that's part of the discussion, we should try to make sure we don't force bring ibus in
[17:34] <desrt> we'd have to (to some extent) duplicate the logic of how this works in each of those locations
[17:34] <desrt> seb128: i imagine that these changes will be completely orthogonal to that
[17:34] <seb128> ok, good
[17:34] <seb128> just mentioning it in case that comes in some discussion
[17:35] <seb128> the Kylin guys are pretty set on fcitx
[17:35] <desrt> doing a dbus service simply prevents us from having to have too many people knowing the details of how the information is stored
[17:35] <desrt> "information hiding" --parnas :)
[18:57] <desrt> pitti: super-fun bug for you to look at: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=709223
[18:57] <ubot2> Gnome bug 709223 in general "problem with toggleref thread-safety" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[18:57] <desrt> near-unsolveable problem in pygobject :(