[04:15] <Myrtti> good morning
[04:22] <MartijnVdS> \o
[04:58] <Myrtti> someone might remember my fixation with Yorkshire tea... I'm running low and decided to look up my options. Taking into account that I've lost my bus card, it would cost me 5€ on busfares to get into town to get some from the big department store I know sells it...
[04:58] <Myrtti> I thought I might look into buying some from a shop that sells British stuff.
[04:58] <Myrtti> first I thought "ok" maybe 11€ isn't that bad for a packet of tea that would cost 2.50GBP in Tesco
[04:59] <Myrtti> ... but they also charge for mailing it, making the grand total for the tea 19.50€.
[04:59] <Myrtti> so I guess taking the bus to get some tea isn't such a bad idea after all.
[04:59] <Myrtti> also, happy mailman day
[05:02] <diddledan> Myrtti: mailman as in the software mailing list manager or mailman as in the bloke that delivers my shiny toys?
[05:14] <Myrtti> diddledan: the software mailing list manager that celebrates its day every first day of the month
[05:14] <diddledan> yeah, I've since spotted the mails:-p
[05:14] <Myrtti> because holy list membership reminders, Batman!
[05:15] <diddledan> they're starting to trickle in
[07:03] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:04] <diddledan> allo
[08:25] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:28] <diddledan> ,prmom
[08:28] <diddledan> erm
[08:28] <diddledan> mornin
[08:29] <diddledan> fingers were offset to the right by one key
[08:30] <bigcalm> Ah, an off by one error
[08:30] <diddledan> :-)
[08:30] <diddledan> only one of the two actors was affected by off-by-one however meaning the R came out correctly
[08:37] <diddledan> lol - the sultry seductress installer ends with "reticulating splines"
[08:37] <diddledan> is that the right codename? or should it be spicy salami?
[08:37] <diddledan> or...
[08:38] <bigcalm> What the heck are you talking about? :)
[08:38] <diddledan> the beta of ubuntu 13.10
[08:39] <bigcalm> Ah. Your codename for it didn't make much sense to me, does now
[08:41] <bigcalm> Today, I shall be mostly eating co-codamol</fastshow>
[08:41] <diddledan> mmm, tasty
[08:43] <bigcalm> Woo, new Museum of Curiosity waiting for me to listen to
[08:56] <bigcalm> Does anybody ever have a pet project that they really want to work on but normal work just gets in the way during work hours? I should take time off...
[08:58] <popey> heh
[08:58] <popey> yes!
[09:10] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:12] <bigcalm> Morning
[09:12] <brobostigon> morning bigcalm
[09:21] <diddledan> bigcalm: pet projects - I would like to redesign / rebuild my own website and get some more recent content on it  but I just don't seem to be able to get time off from paying work to do it
[09:27] <MooDoo> diddledan: use wordpress half the work is then done for you ;)
[09:28] <brobostigon> wordpress is pretty slick.
[09:29] <brobostigon> and unlike drupal, wordpress can upgrade itself.
[09:38] <diplo> morning all, I have a IcyBox external hdd caddy and have a few hdd's I'd like to test for errors etc. Best way to go about that? Can hdparm do anything like that? A bit like a memtest test I guess I'm after
[09:42] <diddledan> you'd want it to be able to support SMART if it can as that's the most appropriate way to initiate tests
[09:42] <diddledan> otherwise I donno
[09:42] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Vegetarian Day! :-D
[09:43] <diddledan> bah
[09:47] <bigcalm> JamesTait: is today the day that we eat a vegetarian?
[09:52] <jussi> bigcalm: cannibal day again? :D
[09:53] <JamesTait> bigcalm, I think that might be the opposite of what was intended, but whatever works, I guess. ;)
[09:54] <bigcalm> jussi: eat a rabbit, they are veggies ;)
[09:54] <gordonjcp> I guess pigs are about the only omnivorous thing we eat
[09:54] <gordonjcp> maybe the Abrahamic faiths have a point, there
[10:00] <jussi> gordonjcp: don't you try take my bacon away!! (and also, what about cows?)
[10:00] <jussi> (cows chew the cud, isnt that eating meat? :P :P )
[10:01] <brobostigon> bacon rocks
[10:01] <popey> Rocks made from bacon!? Where!?
[10:02] <brobostigon> haha
[10:02]  * TheOpenSourcerer files a trademark for Bacon Rocks
[10:03]  * popey had quickie scrambled eggs and mushrooms for brekkie
[10:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> Then ponders if they should be chewy or hard
[10:04]  * TheOpenSourcerer had no breakfast - never does normally.
[10:04] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: crispy bacon
[10:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> Am now waiting impatiently for the sandwich to van to announce its presence.
[10:05]  * brobostigon is having lunch with his gf, :)
[10:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> Chocmosas (NOM NOM) http://www.greenandblacks.co.uk/recipes/Chocomosas?r=45265
[10:08] <Myrtti> hmmm.
[10:09] <Myrtti> Google Music and Google Music All Access opened today in Finland. I have to consider would canceling my Spotify subscription and moving to GMAA be a good idea. But I've been doing wedding playlist on Spotify and was planning to make it collaborative at some point...
[10:09] <MooDoo> bacon + star wars = https://static.squarespace.com/static/51b3dc8ee4b051b96ceb10de/51ce6099e4b0d911b4489b79/51ce6196e4b0d911b44993bc/1271115234477/1000w/Star_Wars_Bacon_AT-AT-3-thumb-548x606-37072.jpg
[10:09] <Myrtti> this leaves me wondering
[10:11] <bigcalm> Myrtti: keep spotify until you're wed?
[10:11] <Myrtti> bigcalm: why pay for two subscriptions...
[10:11] <Myrtti> besides I just remembered my google account thinks I'm british already
[10:11] <bigcalm> Myrtti: spend time moving the play lists over - do you have colab playlists on google music?
[10:11] <Myrtti> so the lower subscription rate for people signing up on the first month is already gone for me
[10:12] <Myrtti> bigcalm: nope, not that I know of
[10:12] <bigcalm> Then isn't that a reason to keep spotify?
[10:12] <Myrtti> yeah I suppose, but it would've been 2€ cheaper
[10:12] <brobostigon> cheapo wetherspoons lunch, but it will do the job.
[10:12] <Myrtti> but since the deal is gone, it's the same price, so that's moot anyway
[10:13] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah, I tend to now otherwise working at home I'll just sneak into the kitchen and eat
[10:13] <bigcalm> I <3 spotify for mobile usage mostly - I have my account running on my android tv stick and so get tunes in the sitting room hi-fi
[10:13] <popey> \o/
[10:13] <Myrtti> oh yes. I forgot the bonus, of using Spotify on the AV Receiver and whatnots
[10:13] <popey> i have shared my spotify login with wifey and sophie
[10:13] <popey> they have their own playlists on my account
[10:13] <popey> we pretty much never use it at the same time
[10:13] <Myrtti> yeah, I'm sharing mine with my sister on her TV STB
[10:21] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:24] <popey> just
[10:25] <JamesTait> davmor2, "It was when we got up." ;)
[10:25] <bigcalm> Heh
[10:25]  * JamesTait used to hear that a lot.
[10:25] <bigcalm> Morning davmor2
[10:26] <bigcalm> davmor2: not going to the LUG tomorrow night?
[10:26] <davmor2> I've been up for hours I've only just managed to get rid of my Mom who paid a surprise visit
[10:26] <JamesTait> Aw, bless!
[10:27] <davmor2> bigcalm: no idea currently way too much on, but I can only do so much in a day so we'll see, hence not putting my name down yet
[10:27] <bigcalm> davmor2: fair enough
[10:27] <davmor2> JamesTait: You don't know her or you wouldn't say that :D
[10:27] <JamesTait> davmor2, I did wonder about the "get rid of her" bit. ;)
[10:28] <bigcalm> davmor2: have you considered loud and continuous farting?
[10:28] <gordonjcp> jussi: no, it's semidigested grass ;-)
[10:28] <davmor2> bigcalm: She'd thing that was a challenge :)
[10:28] <JamesTait> Hah! :-D
[10:29] <jussi> gordonjcp: aah crud, I thought it was cow cheek :P
[10:29] <gordonjcp> jussi: no, they have four stomachs where they let chewed up grass break down a bit before eating it some more
[10:30] <jussi> hehe
[10:30] <gordonjcp> jussi: sheep and goats are ruminants too
[10:30] <gordonjcp> we're not which is why we can't eat grass
[10:30] <gordonjcp> well, we can, we just can't get any nutrition from it
[10:31] <jussi> I knew it!!! all those vegetarians telling me to eat salad!!!
[10:33] <bigcalm> Indeed, having a shrivelled up appendix means that we get bugger all from lettuce
[10:44] <gordonjcp> hrmph
[10:44] <gordonjcp> I wish Google would stop trying to get me to work for them

[10:45] <gordonjcp> about once a month I get mailed by their recruiters
[10:45] <mungbean> why don't you email back
[10:45] <gordonjcp> I did
[10:45] <mungbean> say "please contact me in 1 yr"
[10:45] <MooDoo> gordonjcp: go work for them, they can't be that bad to work for, you might get more money
[10:45] <gordonjcp> I emailed back with varying degrees of politeness saying please contact me when you've got something suitable
[10:45] <brobostigon> i would accept, it is probably well payed enough.
[10:45] <gordonjcp> MooDoo: they only have jobs in London
[10:46] <MooDoo> gordonjcp: ah
[10:46] <gordonjcp> it's at the wrong end of a different country
[10:46] <Myrtti> I've been emailed a few times and once I even tried
[10:46] <gordonjcp> and their recruitment guy that emails me cannot seem to grasp that I just don't want to move to London
[10:46] <Myrtti> it always ends in tears anyway
[10:47] <gordonjcp> "But we'd be paying London rates!"
[10:47] <gordonjcp> yeah
[10:47] <gordonjcp> but I'd be in *London*
[10:50] <mungbean> victoria?
[10:50] <mungbean> or elsewhere in london
[10:51] <mungbean> not that i can handle anything more than a 9-5 atm
[11:06] <Monotoko> afternoon
[11:17] <mungbean> how do i invite to a chan? /invite ?
[11:21] <diddledan> mungbean: in the channel you want to invite someone to, run /invite theirNick
[11:21] <mungbean> cheers diddledan
[11:53] <bigcalm> Oh my, I think our village hall is on fire
[11:53] <MooDoo> ouch
[11:53] <davmor2> bigcalm: ouch
[11:54] <Myrtti> oof.
[11:54] <bigcalm> Fire engine has just raced past
[11:57] <mungbean> 2nd day of cold turkey on reddit
[11:59] <davmor2> bigcalm: Good sign that something is on fire
[12:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> Next week is "National Curry Week" :-D
[12:05] <bigcalm> For the whole week?
[12:05] <bigcalm> Yay
[12:05] <bigcalm> Will try and get Hayley to a balti at some point
[12:06] <popey> \o/
[12:14] <mungbean> i wonder how the high speed internet on trains will work
[12:15] <bigcalm> You use the internet while the train moves at high speed
[12:15] <mungbean> train lines are perfect for laying fibre
[12:15] <bigcalm> So, not at all
[12:15] <mungbean> how does the internet get into the train
[12:15] <bigcalm> Does it have a ticket?
[12:15] <mungbean> multiple wifi APs along the route every 100 yds ?
[12:16] <davmor2> mungbean: it's a mobile connection on the train, I'm assuming they'll just upgrade it from 3g to 4g
[12:16] <mungbean> they are talking 50mb
[12:16] <mungbean> http://metro.co.uk/2013/09/30/web-connections-that-go-like-a-train-broadband-on-railways-to-eclipse-domestic-speeds-4129211/
[12:17] <davmor2> http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2297785/uk-government-to-deliver-50mbps-4g-broadband-to-rail-passengers
[12:18] <mungbean> i have a train line that runs along the back of my garden
[12:18] <mungbean> wonder if i can profit from that
[12:20] <mungbean> http://metro.co.uk/2013/09/30/50-year-old-father-of-three-ordered-to-show-id-to-buy-whisky-4128887/
[12:20] <mungbean> he looks like a student
[12:24] <davmor2> mungbean: but he's black.  What I found happens with Black people in general is, as kids they always look older till they look like they are in their early 20's, eventually they then go grey and wrinkly but the eventually kicks in around 70 :)
[12:24] <popey> meh
[12:24] <popey> I got ID'd in the USA recently
[12:24] <popey> Despite me being older than everyone there, including the guy asking for ID
[12:25] <mungbean> thats teh rules in USA though innit?
[12:25] <davmor2> popey: they were just checking if you were elvis
[12:25] <mungbean> they just ask out of habit, no one gets offended
[12:25] <popey> It's not about being offended
[12:25] <popey> I had no id with me
[12:25] <popey> so couldn't go in
[12:25] <mungbean> lol
[12:25] <directhex> when i worked at waitrose, as a 16 year old, i was required to ID everyone, regardless of age or zimmer frame
[12:25] <Azelphur> I've only ever been ID'd once in my entire life xD
[12:25]  * Myrtti looks at the picture
[12:26] <Myrtti> mmm 17
[12:26] <Azelphur> and amusingly...this was trying to buy cutlery at Argos
[12:26] <Azelphur> I don't always stab people, but when I do I use value range forks.
[12:26] <mungbean> weapons in argos you mean
[12:27] <Azelphur> luckily I had a friend with me who had a passport
[12:27] <Azelphur> I guess at <21 you're supposed to eat like a monkey :P
[12:27] <ali1234> i've got an idea
[12:27]  * davmor2 has never been ID'd
[12:27] <ali1234> let's make everyone give ID when buying anything at all
[12:28] <mungbean> don't tell the govt
[12:28] <mungbean> they probably will
[12:28] <Azelphur> lol
[12:28] <mungbean> maplins, machine mart, dixons etc are keen to ask for a home address when buying stuff
[12:28] <davmor2> mungbean: they already do what do you think the chip in the debit and credit cards is all about ;)
[12:29] <mungbean> and i am keen to decline
[12:29] <popey> thats for spam
[12:30] <mungbean> naively i complied once because my wife was in teh shop and i wanted to be polite
[12:30] <mungbean> i said whats this for? "warranty sir"
[12:30] <mungbean> oh ok.
[12:30] <mungbean> got spammed relentlessly since
[12:30] <mungbean> fool
[12:31] <ali1234> they have to take your address if you buy a TV
[12:31] <mungbean> so they say
[12:31] <bigcalm> To check the address has a licence
[12:31] <mungbean> as george bush said..fool me once...
[12:31] <mungbean> bigcalm: but i'm buying as a gift for a friend
[12:31] <bigcalm> They don't know that
[12:32] <bigcalm> And if you said it, you could be lying
[12:32] <mungbean> and also, my sisters house in harlow wasn't on their system
[12:32] <mungbean> so?
[12:32] <mungbean> what if i don't have a licence, and am buying for a friend.
[12:32] <bigcalm> So they still have to ask
[12:32] <mungbean> it's not controlled goods
[12:33]  * bigcalm does a cheeky bit of JavaScript while on lunch
[12:33] <popey> \o/
[12:33] <diddledan> sneaky javascript? that sounds naughty
[12:34] <popey> https://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-seeks-full-time-senior-gnu-linux-sysadmin
[12:34] <popey> "(S)he will be familiar with the free software community and how it works, and will be more interested in making a substantial contribution to software freedom and having employment consistent with ethical ideals than obtaining the highest salary"
[12:34] <popey> i.e. "We pay crap money"
[12:34] <mungbean> how crap
[12:35] <mungbean>  The salary is fixed at $60,819.20 and is non-negotiable
[12:35] <mungbean> not bad
[12:35] <mungbean> equivalent to a uni sysadmin role
[12:36] <diddledan> mungbean: the law states that televisions and other receiving devices cannot be sold unless the purchaser has filled and signed a license document
[12:37] <diddledan> hence, your address
[12:37] <Myrtti> I refrain from commenting what the negatives of the job are
[12:37] <popey> haha
[12:38] <diddledan> that the gnu/fsf job posting?
[12:38] <Myrtti> yeah.
[12:38] <diddledan> I wouldn't qualify - I use proprietary stuff :-0p
[12:38] <Myrtti> I wouldn't qualify, I use word Linux in my language
[12:38] <Myrtti> "eeep, game over"
[12:38] <diddledan> yeah, and I don't call it gnu/linux either
[12:40] <popey> que
[12:40] <diddledan> lol @ maplin email I just received - they have a "Pro Hunter - Miniature RF Bug Sweeper"
[12:40] <popey> are schools on strike today?
[12:41] <diddledan> popey: not that I'm aware
[12:41] <ali1234> yes they are
[12:41] <ali1234> some of them
[12:41] <mungbean> some
[12:41] <ali1234> i heard it on the local radio last night
[12:41] <diddledan> but then I'm never aware of the schools anymore
[12:42] <mungbean> why are 2 eastenders stories in teh top 10 on the bbc :(
[12:43] <diddledan> because they're trying new marketing avenues
[12:43] <mungbean> i think you are right
[12:44] <mungbean> i forgot it existed
[12:44] <mungbean> now they are reminding me
[12:44] <diddledan> aparently someone is going to get domestically violent soon ... joy
[12:44] <mungbean> now i feel depressed
[12:47] <popey> phew, local school isnt
[12:48] <MooDoo> popey: our schools teachers are on strike
[12:48] <popey> bummer
[12:48] <MooDoo> yeah
[12:48] <popey> the benefit of independent schools \o/
[12:49] <MooDoo> obviously x weeks in the summer and christmas isn't good enough for them, they need inset and strike days as well
[12:49] <mungbean> inset is worse than teaching i'm sure
[12:50] <mungbean> especially the bit where they dress up as six legged creatures
[12:50] <diddledan> my sister is on maternity leave so she isn't caught up in whether to strike or not
[12:50] <MooDoo> I'm sure, but when they have 6 weeks school hol, then announce the first day back is inset, it annoys me
[12:50] <mungbean> less disruptive innit
[12:50] <popey> makes sense
[12:50] <popey> first day back, get everyone up to speed
[12:51] <MooDoo> do it in the bloomin hols so it doesn't disrupt parents
[12:51] <popey> they have, effectively
[12:51] <popey> on the last day
[12:51] <MooDoo> yeah I get what you're saying
[12:51] <MooDoo> still annoys me
[12:52]  * mungbean thinks you are just in grumpy mood :D
[12:52] <popey> it's just as bad for people who work in schools
[12:52] <popey> they have to find childcare for their kids while they go into school for inset days
[12:53] <mungbean> still wiped out after being ill all last week
[12:53] <mungbean> need a nap somewhere
[12:55] <mungbean> straw poll, if you were deploying a virtualisation solution now, what would you go for?
[12:56] <MooDoo> mungbean: vmware
[12:56] <popey> depends
[12:56] <mungbean> mostly linux server VMs
[12:57] <mungbean> possible scope for openstack/cloudstack type dep[loyments too
[12:59] <diddledan> opensource: if you're happy running a roll-your-own then libvirt+kvm+virsh/virt-manager; if you want a packaged solution xcp. proprietary: there's not a lot to choose between citrix and vmware here
[12:59] <mungbean> i've got strong background in vmware
[12:59] <diddledan> I would say go with what you know then
[12:59] <mungbean> however, OSS product might be way to go
[12:59] <mungbean> its a team thing
[13:00] <diddledan> aah
[13:00] <diddledan> that changes things a bit
[13:00] <diddledan> you need the other members to be happy with the choice - politics :-p
[13:00] <mungbean> everyone is sensible and OSS users
[13:00] <mungbean> hopefully not much politics
[13:02] <diddledan> the advantage that the libvirt-based solution has is that it is end-to-end manageable through an oss workstation - both vmware and citrix (and even oss xcp from the xen guys) require closed-source management utils that only work on windows workstations
[13:02] <mungbean> thats true too
[13:02] <mungbean> vmware is still ££ too
[13:02] <diddledan> yeah
[13:02] <diddledan> vmware gets very expensive very quickly
[13:03] <MooDoo> esxi is fine use that ;) lol
[13:03] <mungbean> nah
[13:03] <directhex> ganeti.
[13:04] <diddledan> what about playing with the completely unknown proxmox?
[13:04] <mungbean> openstack is too immature
[13:04] <mungbean> unknown stuff is a nope
[13:05] <diddledan> http://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Main_Page
[13:14] <Myrtti> I'm having a slow day but didn't there use to be ready made Debian and/or Ubuntu KVM/Qemu disk images at one point somewhere in the tinternet?
[13:17] <Myrtti> hm, I think this might work
[13:24] <diddledan> Myrtti: guest or host?
[13:24] <Myrtti> guest
[13:24] <diddledan> there was once upon a time the jeos ubuntu release
[13:24] <Myrtti> I'm reading this one http://agiliq.com/blog/2012/07/using-ubuntu-cloud-images-in-kvm/
[13:24] <diddledan> or just enough operating system
[13:24] <diddledan> afaik it never made it past 10.04 though
[13:26] <mungbean> anyone used cloudstack?
[13:29]  * popey wanders off to his codeclub
[14:44] <ali1234> anyone else noticed that the forward mouse button doesn't work any more?
[14:45] <bigcalm> Forward mouse button?
[14:45] <bigcalm> Oh, in a browser
[14:45] <bigcalm> Works for me in 13.04 with everything up to date
[14:45] <ali1234> yeah or file manager
[14:45] <ali1234> and yeah i'm on 13.10
[14:46] <ali1234> with evtest it sends no events at all
[14:46] <ali1234> back still works fine, sends button 4
[14:47] <bigcalm> Got another mouse that you can test with?
[14:50] <ali1234> no
[14:50] <ali1234> i could test the mouse on another computer though
[14:52] <diddledan> that won't rule out the mouse being the problem
[14:52] <ali1234> yes it would?
[14:53] <diddledan> if it doesn't work in t'other pc how do you determine it's the fault of the mouse over the fault of the software or vice versa?
[14:53] <diddledan> all you'd know is the mouse don't work in two places
[14:53] <ali1234> well if i tried another mouse and it didn't work then it could be two broken mice
[14:54] <diddledan> that's less likely
[14:54] <ali1234> the thing is that these scenarios are highly unlikely
[14:54] <diddledan> ideally you'd test two mice in two pcs
[14:55] <diddledan> if all four scenarios don't work then it's likely to be software
[14:55] <ali1234> it's the mouse :/
[14:55] <ali1234> if i press the button rrreeeeeeally hard it works
[14:55] <diddledan> that's a very male thing to do - if it doesn't work push it harder
[14:55] <ali1234> ok now i need to get a new microswitch
[14:56] <diddledan> many is the time that a husband gets looked at by his missus for standing two inches from the telly pushing the remote button as hard as he can
[14:56] <mgdm> I find it's usually the other way around
[14:57] <ali1234> nah when the remote doesn't work you have to take the batteries out and switch them over
[14:57] <diddledan> well either way is funny :-p
[14:57] <ali1234> after blowing on them
[14:57] <diddledan> o_O
[15:08] <bigcalm> That reminds me that I need to buy a new fibreglass pen, thanks :)
[17:24] <mungbean> shhh
[19:03] <davmor2> bigcalm: fibreglass pen wouldn't that be a bit rough on the skin
[19:16] <ali1234> davmor2: that's the idea, yes
[19:17] <ali1234> it's a propelling pencil with a fibreglass tip for cleaning PCB pads and so on
[19:22] <ali1234> what was the name of that game where you control 9 characters at the same time?
[19:22] <ali1234> it was something like 9rogue
[19:40] <bigcalm> davmor2_: a fibreglass pen is useful to clean the battery contacts in a remote control when said batteries have leaked and corroded
[19:51] <bigcalm> Quiet night
[19:51] <ali1234> i found it. it was ro9
[21:06] <angryziber> #darktable
[21:09] <diddledan> lightchair
[21:10] <diddledan> dimstool
[21:10] <Darael> invisibledesk
[21:11] <diddledan> brightbookcase
[21:11] <Darael> brilliantsofa
[21:11] <Darael> shadylamp
[21:11] <diddledan> lol
[21:11] <Darael> luminescentbed
[21:12] <Darael> ...I'm running out of furniture in here to concatenate with lighting-descriptors, I confess.
[21:12] <diddledan> me too
[22:32] <Azelphur> never set up a mail server before, does anyone have any particular recommendations?
[22:32] <Azelphur> My VPS seems to have shipped with exim4 installed, will that do the job well?
[22:32] <bigcalm> That'll send SMTP