[00:06] <popey> http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/02/dell-venue-pro-8-and-pro-11-hands-on/
[00:08] <popey> be interesting to play with non-windows on those
[00:08] <popey> given they're intel based
[00:09] <Azelphur> what's interesting about them?
[00:09] <Azelphur> oh, Intel based. I guess that'd be cool, there aren't many Intel based reasonably sized tablets floating about
[00:10] <popey> yeah, the 10" one is full HD
[00:12] <Azelphur> not bad :)
[00:12] <Azelphur> 10 hours battery on an Intel is new, too
[00:58] <Azelphur> I've officially decided to stop using compiz \o/
[00:58] <Azelphur> fed up with the instability and gaming badness it brings xD
[06:00] <dogmatic69> Hi all
[06:01] <dogmatic69> some reason my pc stopped booting. showing CIFS VFS: cifs_mount failed w/return code = -113
[06:19] <Myrtti> dogmatic69: fixed it?
[06:20] <dogmatic69> Myrtti: for some reason i needed to turn my nas on first
[06:20] <Myrtti> sounds about right
[06:20] <dogmatic69> idk why as it is not setup to mount it
[06:20] <dogmatic69> never had to before
[06:21] <dogmatic69> I have a script to mount it which I run manually, after booting the nas was not mounted either
[06:40] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:23] <mungbean> "Eye tests are free for over 40s who have a family history of glaucoma
[08:23] <mungbean> interesting. wonder how i prove it
[08:25] <mungbean> i think i just tick a box on a form
[08:30] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:30] <mungbean> hello giantclam
[08:34] <bigcalm> Oh not you as well :P
[08:36] <DJones> mungbean: I've come across that question before http://www.nhs.uk/chq/pages/895.aspx?CategoryID=68&SubCategoryID=157
[08:37] <mungbean> "You’ll be asked to show proof that you’re entitled to a free NHS sight test."
[08:38] <DJones> mungbean: http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcosts/Documents/2009/HC11Nov09.pdf Page 36 of the pdf mentions evidence on an NHS medical card
[08:38] <diddledan> mungbean: nhs entitlements usually require a card of some sort. like diabetes requires a card to get free prescriptions
[08:39] <mungbean> my dad had glaucoma
[08:39] <dwatkins> we get free eye tests here in Scotland
[08:41] <diddledan> dwatkins: don't expect the freebies to last if scotland goes independant - atm afaik they use westminster funds (taxes from england) to pay their free services
[08:42] <DJones> Pretty sure the rules used to include grandparents as having glaucoma as one of the triggers for free eye tests as well, but that looks to have changed
[08:47] <DJones> If your council waste collection does recycling etc and uses Recyclebank, they normally have a few free eye test offers to use points earned from what you've recycled
[08:48] <dwatkins> diddledan: indeed, although I think it's unlikely enough people will vote 'yes' in the refferendum.
[08:48] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Virus Appreciation Day! :-D
[08:48] <diddledan> JamesTait: no, just no!
[08:49] <dwatkins> What is there to appreciate about virii?
[08:49] <JamesTait> Well, in spite of our best efforts to control them, they're incredibly resilient and adaptive.
[08:51] <JamesTait> And they brought down the alien mothership in Independence Day.  That has to count for something, right?
[08:52] <popey> s/virii/viruses/
[08:52] <dwatkins> There was a scene cut from the film which explained how Jeff Goldblum's character in ID4 was able to compile code which ran on the alien mothership. It was all related to the ship they had captured in the 40s.
[08:52] <dwatkins> thanks popey, I sit corrected
[08:54] <JamesTait> dwatkins, I read about that scene.  I can understand why it was cut for the mass-market, but I wonder if they ever released a geeks' edition with all the gory details. ;)
[08:59] <dwatkins> "...in the seven minutes of cut scenes included in the extended release Independence Day DVD, Goldblum is actually shown tinkering with his PowerBook inside the recovered craft from the Roswell crash site, mumbling something about how the spaceship was running off the same programming language he was able to decipher before
[08:59] <dwatkins> "
[09:01] <diddledan> erm
[09:02] <diddledan> a signal with a reducing cyclic rate isn't a programming language
[09:02] <diddledan> I'm glad they cut that scene because it wouldn't have made sense
[09:03] <diddledan> unless they changed how he worked out when the attack was due
[09:03] <dwatkins> I think it means that the programming language he decyphered before was derived from the ship which crashed at Roswell, nothing to do with the satellites.
[09:04] <diddledan> so the government released the programming language to the public?
[09:04] <dwatkins> perhaps the alien technology was used to develop some modern technology
[09:05] <dwatkins> reverse engineered and then used in the 1970s, maybe
[09:05] <diddledan> his first knowledge of the roswell crash was the announcement by the secretary of defence that "there was no alien crash in roswell new mexico" "isn't entirely accurate"
[09:05] <dwatkins> yes, but he may have encountered a language which was based on the alien craft's OS years beforehand and made the connection
[09:06] <shauno> probably in jurasic park ;)
[09:06] <diddledan> true except that the mad professor (brent spiner) professed that they hadn't made any headway in the many years they had the craft until the big spaceships arrived and "all the gizmos started lighting up. the past 24 hours has been really exciting."
[09:06] <dwatkins> haha yeah, SGI's success was actually based on alien computers
[09:07] <gordonjcp> and on that note, Var'aq -> http://www.oocities.org/connorbd/varaq/
[09:07] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:07] <dwatkins> diddledan: good point, maybe they read it from ROM
[09:08] <daftykins> diddledan: what film is that from?
[09:09] <diddledan> daftykins: independence day
[09:09] <diddledan> I used to be able to recite the script verbatim
[09:10] <daftykins> ah thought so :)
[09:10] <daftykins> haha
[09:10] <dwatkins> I know Back to the Future a lot better than Independance Day
[09:10] <diddledan> I was addicted to it as a teenager because it was one of the very few vhs tapes I owned with a movie on
[09:12] <daftykins> :D
[09:13] <daftykins> yay GTA Online works when all the kids are at school / work :>
[09:25] <daftykins> argh got as far as the first task now it's seized up again
[09:25] <daftykins> pesky online implementations ;)
[09:26] <diddledan> daftykins: no work?
[09:27] <daftykins> nope
[09:27] <diddledan> it's 10:30 - dietcoke break
[09:27] <diddledan> oh, no, that was 11:30
[09:27] <daftykins> haha
[09:27] <daftykins> finally it loaded
[09:28] <diddledan> I suck at popculture references
[09:28] <daftykins> i'm amazed anyone remembers :D
[09:30] <popey> I very nearly bought GTAV yesterday
[09:30] <popey> Happened to be buying something else on Amazon and it called out to me.
[09:30] <popey> I actually deleted it from my basket.
[09:30]  * TheOpenSourcerer has a horrible cold - sniff sniff cough splutter
[09:31] <Myrtti> happy Virus Appreciation Day to you too
[09:33] <popey> Happy Virus appreciation day!
[09:33] <popey> (see what i did there)
[09:33] <daftykins> oh dear the message is spreading D:
[09:34] <daftykins> like a...
[09:34] <daftykins> popey: impressive restraint, there
[09:34] <popey> yeah
[09:34] <popey> did buy a wired xbox controller tho
[09:35] <Laney> holding out for ps4
[09:36] <daftykins> booo
[09:39] <shauno> that's how I Amazon too.  add everything I want.  trim it down to what I can justify.  then trim it down to what I can afford.  And then kick out the odd item that's being shipped by some oddball and doubling the shipping cost
[09:39] <diddledan> lol
[09:40] <mungbean> where do i find the pgpk and pgpv packages in centos?
[09:40] <Myrtti> shauno: yeah. I manage to talk myself out of most amazon purchases that way
[09:40] <shauno> we don't have Prime available here.  so it's free shipping over 25 yoyos, unless you picked something that's not shipped by amazon, in which case they'll tack on seemingly random amounts of shippign cost :/
[09:41] <Myrtti> then again I don't delete everything I can't justify
[09:41] <Myrtti> I just move them to my wishlist and hope someone else will buy them
[09:42] <daftykins> i gave in late last night and bought a 120GB SSD for my server and a 2TB WD Red drive too
[09:42] <shauno> I try not to use the wishlist.  because it likes to put them back on the front page, under "here, you know you want to .."
[09:42] <daftykins> £130 total!
[09:45] <Myrtti> shauno: few years ago I participated in the Google+ secret santa and it was great
[09:45] <popey> heh
[09:45] <popey> I did too!
[09:45] <popey> (never got anything)
[09:45] <diddledan> o_O
[09:45] <Myrtti> used Amazon wishlists, it really made my Christmas, just had been laid off and money was tight
[09:46] <popey> and it was odd seeing the spreadsheet fully of people's sob stories
[09:46] <Myrtti> got a tea cozy, a "Good Night Keith Moon" book, and watercolours
[09:47] <popey> it felt like you can't say "I didn't get anything" because then you're just being ungrateful.
[09:47] <Myrtti> yeah well I did buy few things myself too
[09:47] <popey> ditto.
[09:47] <Myrtti> (for others)
[09:48] <popey> hey ho
[09:48] <Myrtti> yeah, that's what it is
[09:48] <Myrtti> but yeah, amazon wishlists are great, have few times just checked what friends have on theirs and that's been their christmas present solved
[09:49] <shauno> I'm still trying to behave after I accidentally bought a 140cm tall monkey off ebay.  I'm meant to be saving :(
[09:49] <mungbean> pciture?
[09:51] <diddledan> or it didn't happen :-p
[09:51] <dwatkins> how can you accidentally buy a monkey the size of a person?
[09:51] <shauno> http://cl.ly/image/011m1D0w2X3h
[09:51] <dwatkins> ...and what's the ebay listing called?
[09:52] <diddledan> that's a funky munky
[09:52] <popey> haha
[09:52] <phillipshum> that's never an accident
[09:52] <shauno> ebay really should have a breathalizer
[09:52] <dwatkins> I want one now
[09:54] <shauno> http://www.ebay.ie/itm/110911008080  :)
[09:55] <mungbean> shauno: what? is that a new lodger?
[09:55] <shauno> it really could have been planned better though.  eg, I really shouldn't have shipped it to the office.  for many reasons.  not least having to walk home with it
[09:56] <mungbean> carry it home piggy back
[09:56] <phillipshum> free P+P!
[09:57] <shauno> free p&p from china isn't always a good thing.  it means it'll arrive sometime in the next 3 months :(
[09:57] <phillipshum> haha
[09:58] <diddledan> shauno: and possibly wet
[10:00] <daftykins> shauno: lmao
[10:02] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:02] <daftykins> and you bought this... why? :)
[10:02] <daftykins> surprise surprise, GTA Online is full of griefers
[10:04] <popey> haha
[10:05] <popey> what do they do?
[10:05] <popey> I saw a YT video by olli43 where he shot at another player and then got kicked off the world
[10:05] <davmor2> popey: kill each other and steal their cars?
[10:05] <popey> thats reasonable ☻
[10:05] <daftykins> popey: yeah some randomer got in my car, then bailed out, then killed me
[10:05] <daftykins> then killed me a second time later on, when we were both paired up for a mission
[10:05] <popey> that seems like part of the game
[10:05] <daftykins> so... yeah extremely frustrating
[10:06] <popey> oh, that's less so
[10:06] <popey> but tbh I'd probably do that too ☻
[10:06] <daftykins> it does let you turn on a mode so that you don't get hassle from anyone else unless you're on a job
[10:06] <popey> because they can't see you?
[10:06] <daftykins> something like that yeah
[10:09] <daftykins> about to start a team deathmatch type game
[10:11] <daftykins> haha two guys dropped so i was on a 4 player team vs 2
[10:12] <daftykins> who i killed myself
[10:12] <phillipshum> I was picturing epic-scale gang warfare
[10:12] <phillipshum> 4 v 4 sounds a bit .... limited
[10:12] <daftykins> well it was an introductory objective
[10:12] <daftykins> you can't judge an entire game's multiplayer on one setup ;)
[10:13] <phillipshum> true true
[10:13] <diddledan> 4v4 was commonplace on dialup connections
[10:13] <daftykins> Rockstars lack of servers right now and thus issues with Online probably make it like dialup :D
[10:14] <popey> STOP IT!
[10:14] <popey> I will end up buying it!
[10:14] <popey> ☻
[10:14] <phillipshum> the loading screens should include modem dial tones
[10:14] <phillipshum> I miss those
[10:15] <daftykins> rofl it loaded a second game of the same, 2v2
[10:15] <daftykins> i killed both again
[10:15] <daftykins> popey: buy buy buy :D
[10:16] <popey> or loading screens that build up line by line
[10:16] <popey> to build the suspense
[10:16] <popey> then a message which obliterates it
[10:16] <popey> PROGRAM: GTAV

[10:16]  * popey squeals like a pig^W Sinclair Spectrum
[10:16] <daftykins> :>
[10:18] <phillipshum> shift + run/stop
[10:27] <daftykins> oh wow, i just get a text on my phone when someone else sets up a race
[10:27] <daftykins> so i select it and the map moves over to where it's set
[10:28] <gordonjcp> daftykins: GTAV?
[10:28] <gordonjcp> not tried it in multiplayer yet
[10:28] <daftykins> yes sir
[10:28] <daftykins> yeah i think it's only working for me since everyone's at work or school :D
[10:28] <gordonjcp> heh
[10:28] <daftykins> i tried a couple of times of evenings but it's just timed out
[10:29] <daftykins> i just realised my guy looks like Bono.
[10:29] <daftykins> oops.
[10:30] <shauno> no wonder people are shooting you
[10:34] <daftykins> :D
[10:34] <daftykins> that was before i got the shades that completed the look :(
[10:34] <daftykins> aww i lost the race
[10:37] <gordonjcp> heh
[10:40] <daftykins> aww lost that one too as he had a far faster car
[10:41] <directhex> you don't need a fast car to win a race
[10:41] <directhex> you need a tank
[10:45] <daftykins> ooh yes won a cycling race
[10:45] <diddledan> directhex: is that why the tortoise beat the hare?
[10:45] <daftykins> hahaha
[10:46]  * daftykins guides popey's mouse hand to buying GTA on Amazon
[10:53] <daftykins> i had to visit an ATM to deposit cash i'd earnt into my account @_@
[10:53] <daftykins> i'll stop going on about it now :)
[10:58] <shauno> I really should get a new console someday.  my NES just can't keep up with all this stuff
[10:59] <daftykins> :)
[10:59] <diddledan> shauno: you've got an amiga, what more do you need?!
[10:59] <diddledan> or did that disappear?
[10:59] <shauno> moar toys?
[11:00] <diddledan> shining bright like a diamond
[11:01] <shauno> I actually really fancy the sound of all this new steam stuff.  eventually.  especially if I can cram xbmc back on there without too much ugliness
[11:01] <daftykins> it'd be nice of the XBMC team could start hacking in some kind of Steam switcher ;)
[11:01] <diddledan> there still isn't much in the way of AAA titles available for loonicks/steamos
[11:02] <shauno> well, my 'daily driver' is OSX, so I'm used to that
[11:04] <diddledan> does "GeForce 8600, Radeon 2400HD or newer, 256MB" cover my macbook pro's Intel HD4000?
[11:04] <daftykins> 'cover' ?
[11:04] <daftykins> oh i see what you mean
[11:04] <diddledan> daftykins: will it work
[11:04] <daftykins> maybe, just not for frames :D
[11:05] <diddledan> it seems, for a platform that uses intel graphics extensively, the app store never mentions whether a game will work on an intel chip
[11:06] <daftykins> i can't say i'd expect anyone to try and run games on such a thing :)
[11:06] <diddledan> e.g. in this case, supreme commander 2. that's all they list in terms of gfx requirements
[11:07] <diddledan> why wouldn't a mac user want to play games?
[11:07] <diddledan> I don't get that snobbishness
[11:07] <davmor2> diddledan: I think steams plan is to work on one AAA get it 100% near as damn it then release that one AAA then move onto the next
[11:07] <daftykins> diddledan: i mean something with onboard graphics, nothing to do with it being a mac
[11:07] <shauno> usually the assumption is that if they have to specify video requirements, intel integrated isn't going to cut it.  if integrated was sufficient, they could just say "any mac since 200x"
[11:08] <diddledan> it's crazy that these mbp-retinas only came with intel gfx
[11:10] <shauno> one of many reasons I don't want one :)
[11:10] <diddledan> what?! a mac-female-prostitute like you, not want an mbp retina?!
[11:11] <diddledan> what is the world coming to?!
[11:11] <daftykins> all the retina ones are knowingly underpowered
[11:11] <shauno> I'm not ready to give up the optical drive.  I really like having a sacrificial drivebay I can cram a second hdd into
[11:12] <diddledan> lol
[11:12] <diddledan> the old mbp is gonna get retired soon, I'm betting
[11:12] <shauno> lalalala I can't hear you!
[11:13] <diddledan> shauno: you could always go back to running a hack
[11:15] <daftykins> :S
[11:23] <daftykins> ooh err boiler sat at 0 pressure for central heating ;/
[11:23] <daftykins> but huzzah - my latest batch of Nespresso coffee machine pods arrived this morning \o
[11:23] <daftykins> \o/
[11:23] <daftykins> time to try their new strongest coffee
[11:24] <shauno> hm; I wonder why dropbox says it's updating over 9000 (yarly) files
[11:24] <daftykins> D:
[11:26] <diddledan> shauno: you won the lottery
[11:26] <diddledan> the file lottery
[11:26] <daftykins> YAAAAY
[11:26] <daftykins> your prize - another massive monkey!
[11:27] <diddledan> pervert!
[11:27] <daftykins> ...what
[11:27] <diddledan> :-p
[11:28] <diddledan> it's all fine until you realise that someone has to "be on the receiving end of a massive monkey"
[11:28] <daftykins> i think i shall run my small Linux VMs off the new SSD when it arrives, as new OS drive for my server
[11:28] <daftykins> sure but as he already has one, shauno will be able to further populate his sofa with them
[11:29] <diddledan> I don't want to know about shaun's massive monkey - besides it's not the size, it's what you do with it that counts
[11:29] <daftykins> fun and games aside, your convo stays in the gutter way too much :(
[11:30] <diddledan> lol
[11:30] <shauno> yeah, I don't think I need another giant monkey.  I noticed they have pandas too though
[11:30] <diddledan> what can I say, I'm sick and twisted
[11:30] <diddledan> shauno: awesome
[11:30] <diddledan> shauno: buy the whole zoo!
[11:31] <daftykins> shauno: i thought you could get a second one then make girl clothes for it
[11:32] <diddledan> oh dear, now you got my mind working along the lines of "a pair of girl monkeys"
[11:32] <daftykins> no one's a boy still naturally
[11:32] <daftykins> then they sit on shauno's sofa as a couple!
[11:32] <diddledan> see it's not my fault everyone just sets me up
[11:33] <phillipshum> how come it defaults to being a boy monkey?
[11:33] <diddledan> the world is sick and twisted, I just notice it more than everyone else
[11:33] <shauno> this one's a boy monkey.  it's called martin, after an incident with one of the sales guys.
[11:33] <phillipshum> did the incident involve bananas?
[11:34] <diddledan> phillipshum: because we live in a society that historically has males as the superior being
[11:34] <diddledan> which I cna't really argue about
[11:34] <phillipshum> nor can I ;)
[11:34] <diddledan> you know, when you're right you're right :-p
[11:38] <shauno> martin (swedish sales guy) sent an email to far too many people proclaiming the monkey to be our employee of the month.  so the monkey found a name.
[11:38] <shauno> all in all, getting a giant monkey delivered to the office made for a rather strange day
[11:39] <daftykins> XD
[11:39] <daftykins> any funny looks?
[11:39] <mungbean> this is such a badly written story, i couldn't make sense of it http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24347798
[11:39] <mungbean> worse than an orlowksi el reg article
[11:40] <diddledan> northern germany is in hamburg?
[11:41] <mungbean> maybe written by a bot
[11:42] <gordonjcp> mungbean: try writing in German for the German version of the BBC site
[11:45] <mungbean> its not just the grammar, but information is all jumbled and confusing
[11:45] <diddledan> the last paragraph doesn't make sense at all
[11:46] <mungbean> also, "This was when I was in my 20s and she probably did not tell me anything at this point because she wanted to protect me - she thought it would be better if I did not know about my real past, about the truth, about my family, about my grandfather."
[11:46] <diddledan> "she" is talking about her family and then suddenly the last paragraph saays "it is a story that is very unique and very unusual"
[11:47] <daftykins> the reg's writing has definitely gotten worse
[11:47] <diddledan> ".. it is a story that has a deeper meaning" <-- she wouldn't say that about her own story
[11:47] <daftykins> their GTA V review doesn't even get the 3 main characters names right
[11:47] <shauno> I gave up reading el reg years ago.  probably even before I gave up on slashdot
[11:47] <diddledan> shauno: slashdot is just evil
[11:47] <mungbean> yeah, i only read if somebody gives me a link
[11:48] <diddledan> shauno: it isn't news, it's comments
[11:48] <mungbean> slashdot is just an autistic stand-off
[11:48] <daftykins> the reg's vocabulary amuses me
[11:49] <diddledan> an article is linked saying "OMGZORS END OF THE WORLD IS TOMORROW". the actual article says "nobody has ever predicted the end of the world, and we aren't going to. if you read this article and assume the end of the world is neigh then you're a retard"
[11:50] <mungbean> is the inquirer realted to the reg?
[11:50] <mungbean> and how do they make money?
[11:50] <mungbean> apart from the advertorials
[11:50] <daftykins> probably the incessant ads that invade even the RSS feeds =/
[11:50] <daftykins> i'd have thought they could've been related at some point, i used to read theinq but then switched
[11:51] <mungbean> if it's got a red top i don't read it.seems to work so far
[11:51] <daftykins> BBC tech reporting is too dire to even consider
[11:52] <daftykins> i'm fine with the reg, i don't understand the whole colour system :D
[11:52] <shauno> mungbean: that's pretty much how I explain british press to people :/
[11:52] <diddledan> but but, red indicates the veracity of their reporting
[11:52] <shauno> if it's printed on paper, it's bad.  if it has a red banner, it's worse.
[11:52] <mungbean> red indicates the use of bold and hyperbole
[11:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh: http://line-mode.cern.ch/www/hypertext/WWW/TheProject.html
[11:52] <diddledan> the sun is obviously the most accurate paper!
[11:53] <diddledan> anything with "daily" means it's got a lot of editorial and very little actual substance
[11:53] <diddledan> e.g. daily mail
[11:53] <mungbean> i've given up on the news
[11:54] <mungbean> a glance at bbc website doesn't even tell me that much, and i'm ok with that
[11:55] <mungbean> new hobbit trailer
[11:55] <mungbean> thats all i need to know
[11:56] <shauno> not sure I even need that much.  I know I'm going to see it, I have a vague idea of the plot .. all a trailer can do is give stuff away
[11:57] <mungbean> yeah i'm sure my excited wife will tell me every day until christmas
[11:57] <mungbean> i took a packed lunch last time i went. which was the only film i've seen @ cniema in 2 yrs
[11:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ouch: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/10/lavabit-defied-order-for-snowdens-login-info-then-govt-asked-for-sites-ssl-key/
[11:58] <diddledan> isn't cneima the god that the bad guys in indiejones and the temple of doom were sacrificing people to apease?
[11:58] <diddledan> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah I saw that
[11:59] <shauno> pretty impressive the lengths he went to rather than cave
[11:59] <diddledan> indeed, I'm glad he retained his integrity
[11:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - that's quite impressive.
[11:59] <diddledan> shows there are some good people left in the world
[12:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> Bet he was under some serious pressure to bend over
[12:00] <shauno> providing the ssl key as 4pf text printed on paper was giggle-worthy though.  like paying a fine in pennies
[12:00] <daftykins> the shop down the road from me has 'Christmas tins' of sweets labelled already =|
[12:00]  * TheOpenSourcerer paid a £75 fine in 2p pieces once ;-)
[12:00] <diddledan> TheOpenSourcerer: nice
[12:01] <shauno> it shouldn't actually be a big deal.  just weigh them
[12:01] <diddledan> afaict the lavabit dude would have been subjected to $10,000 in fines for the two days between the contempt of court ruling and when he actually shut the service
[12:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> It was then. The magistrates' court didn't have scales
[12:02] <popey> should have faxed the thing at 4pt to further blur it
[12:02] <daftykins> XD
[12:02] <mungbean> on that thermal paper that fades. dixons sell you a fridge and then in 1 yr the receipt is blank
[12:02] <diddledan> popey: alternatively fax it at 248pt
[12:03] <mungbean> write it on a 28ft wide cheque
[12:03] <mungbean> don't put a stamp on it
[12:05] <shauno> reminds me, I found out recently, which makes perfect sense but never crossed my mind - apparently the reason the 2p coin is so large, is because it weighs exactly twice a 1p coin.  so weighing a mixed bag of 1p & 2p works fine
[12:05] <mungbean> oh cool
[12:05] <mungbean> but largely obsolete now
[12:05] <daftykins> kinda wish they'd eradicate the coppers
[12:05] <mungbean> yeah, stupid police
[12:05] <daftykins> force all prices to be 5 or 10p divisible
[12:06] <daftykins> haha
[12:06] <diddledan> shauno: I believe the same works for 5 and 10p
[12:06] <mungbean> i would agree that 1/2p suck
[12:06] <diddledan> shauno: and 1 and 2£
[12:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> Bring back farthings and groats
[12:06] <davmor2> daftykins: but If you get rid of the copper who enforces the law?
[12:06] <daftykins> davmor2: too slow :(
[12:06] <diddledan> I prefer sheep to groats
[12:07] <mungbean> john o groats?
[12:07] <shauno> diddledan: hah, so it does.  clever
[12:07] <daftykins> i like English notes, but you guys should totally have a £1 note like ours
[12:07] <davmor2> I'm catching up on scrollback :P
[12:07] <daftykins> you get to feel rich thumbing through a big stash of 1's in your wallet
[12:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> 2s 6d
[12:08] <shauno> I prefer 1+2 coins.  it just makes more sense in my head when they at least have the same denominations as the euro
[12:08] <daftykins> nooo let the past be the past
[12:09] <daftykins> i enjoyed my Irish friend moving for a new job in England, she said she can't get used to the money :D
[12:09] <popey> notes _are_ the past ☻
[12:09] <popey> £1 are anyway
[12:09] <popey> I hate going to the US and getting a handful of 1's
[12:09] <daftykins> haha
[12:09] <daftykins> US money is terrible, can't pick them out in your wallet easy since they're all green =|
[12:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'm amazed the yanks still have a $1 bill
[12:09] <shauno> the only thing I do notice is that because the sterling is worth more; I seem to end up witha  pocket full of shrapnel that adds up to a lot more than it feels like
[12:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> All same size
[12:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> All same colour
[12:10] <daftykins> yip
[12:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> useless for accessibility
[12:10] <daftykins> i think the 5s have a little red 5 in a corner, but yeah still pretty tough to distinguish
[12:10] <shauno> apparently blind people use a system of folding them to keep track of which bill is which.  I have no idea how they handle new bills though
[12:10] <daftykins> interesting
[12:12] <shauno> ah, there we go .. I'm not crazy - http://www.afb.org/section.aspx?DocumentID=2232
[12:12] <shauno> they don't mention how you're supposed to tell one from another before you fold them either
[12:13]  * mungbean is installing cloudstack
[12:13] <mungbean> far more impressed already than openstack
[12:13] <mungbean> by a factor of 10 squillion
[12:14] <daftykins> shauno: meanwhile you get cleaned out sat sorting through your money trying to pay for something ;/
[12:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> NSFW! But blimey: http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/oct/03/sinead-o-connor-open-letter-miley-cyrus
[12:32] <mungbean> how is kvm configured on a machine with 1 network interface?
[12:33] <jpds> mungbean: As it always is?
[12:33] <jpds> mungbean: And how can Cloudstack impress you more than OpenStack?
[12:33] <mungbean> i wanna host kvm guests on my laptop, but the bridging don't seem to be working...will look for other docs
[12:34] <jpds> mungbean: You do have libvirt installed?
[12:34] <mungbean> yes
[12:34] <mungbean> i'm at the bridging stage
[12:34] <jpds> libvirt is suppose to autoconfigure an interface on Ubuntu (virbr0).
[12:34] <mungbean> centos
[12:35] <jpds> Ah, your problem then. ;-)
[12:35] <Myrtti> it defaults to natted afaik
[12:35] <Myrtti> bridging is a bit of a pickle to figure out
[12:35] <daftykins> jpds: bit rude
[12:35] <jpds> daftykins: Channel name.
[12:36] <daftykins> yeah, doesn't permit rudeness though
[12:36] <Myrtti> I think you've got no hope if you plan to do anything though wifi
[12:36] <Myrtti> well, you can get stuff with the nat, but anything beyond that might be a bit of a hassle
[12:36] <popey> daftykins: pfft, jpds doesn't know how to be rude
[12:37] <daftykins> seems he's working on it :D
[12:37] <mungbean> i was following the cloudstack instructions but maybe i don't need to as virbr0 seems to exist with a 192.168.122.1 i/face
[12:37] <jpds> mungbean: So you're set.
[12:38] <mungbean> not sure where it configured that bridge
[12:38] <mungbean> not in /etc/sysconfig/.....blah
[12:38] <shauno> I still haven't even looked at cloudstack.  I gave up on openstack though
[12:39] <diddledan> daftykins: my bridge interface is configured thusly with kvm: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6187974/
[12:39] <jpds> mungbean: /etc/libvirt/qemu/networks/
[12:39] <daftykins> diddledan: wrong person :(
[12:39] <mungbean> thats v helpful jpds thanks :D
[12:39] <jpds> shauno: Think Java vs. Python.
[12:39] <mungbean> unhelpful of libvirt however
[12:39] <jpds> mungbean: Not really, you're just discovering something new. ;-)
[12:40] <mungbean> standards are good though
[12:40] <diddledan> oops
[12:40] <diddledan> you're both the same colour so I got the nicks confused :-p
[12:40] <diddledan> mungbean: my bridge interface is configured thusly with kvm: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6187974/
[12:40] <diddledan> use virsh net-* commands
[12:41] <diddledan> oh, of course, cloudstack will probably make virsh not work
[12:42] <jpds> mungbean: Still curious to know how cloudstack impresses you over openstack. :)
[12:42] <popey> Take it to the bridge!
[12:42] <mungbean> the documentation is straightforward and the install and setup is slick
[12:42] <popey> i configured my bridge by just editing /etc/network/interfaces
[12:42] <jpds> Because as far as I know, if you use cloudstack your machines have to be *exactly* the same.
[12:43] <mungbean> jpds: yes, not a problemo
[12:43] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6187991/ \o/
[12:43] <mungbean> my vmware servers are identical too
[12:43] <mungbean> and my kvm servers would be
[12:43] <jpds> mungbean: Ah, OK, I just use MAAS+juju to install openstack and I can have it up and running in about an hour.
[12:45] <diddledan> JUJUJITSU!
[12:45] <jpds> diddledan: Is dead.
[12:45] <shauno> from what I can tell, that's the only sane way to do it.  trying to install by following the documentation will have you in tears
[12:46] <diddledan> I don't have enough physical machines (1) to play with maas
[12:46] <jpds> diddledan: I can do it all on VMs.
[12:46] <diddledan> how do you run openstack in a series of VMs?
[12:47] <daftykins> ah-har, Windows 7 requires two manual registry entries to act as a file server ¬_¬ good times
[12:47] <jpds> diddledan: Quite possible to do.
[12:47] <diddledan> really?
[12:47] <jpds> diddledan: That's my test environment.
[12:47] <diddledan> how do you hardware virtualise in a virtualised environment (unless you have vmware)?
[12:48] <jpds> diddledan: Nested KVM?
[12:48] <jpds> diddledan: LXC within KVM?
[12:48] <diddledan> jpds: does that actually work?
[12:48] <shauno> I believe kvm can do that too now.  it's just virtualbox who are claiming it's not possible and not useful
[12:48] <jpds> diddledan: I don't know the details, I just know that it works.
[12:49] <diddledan> xen have a few problems but they're working on it - I tried doing nested virtualisation with kvm running windows hyper-v but that failed
[12:49] <daftykins> eww Hyper-V
[12:51] <jpds> diddledan: But yes, you can run all of openstack under one machine.
[12:51] <daftykins> my server's OS disk dying meant i was able to put a newer vmware on :D
[12:51] <daftykins> this pleases me
[12:52] <shauno> curious, if you deploy with maas, does it cause any problems if you take maas away?
[12:52] <jpds> shauno: yes.
[12:52] <jpds> shauno: It's doing your DHCP/DNS/power management.
[12:53] <shauno> hm.  still looking for a reasonable way to put openstack on a single machine.  so far the options seem to be either devstack, or go back to 12.04 because all the docs since are lies
[12:54] <daftykins> hahaha
[12:54] <diddledan> the cake is a lie
[12:54] <jpds> shauno: Or using MAAS+juju.
[12:56] <shauno> I'm not sure I can do maas if I have to keep the controller around.  unless it was deploying to containers on itself
[12:56] <diddledan> chicken, meet egg.
[12:56] <jpds> shauno: Well, you need something to manage the environment somehow.
[12:57] <daftykins> intel launches Galileo, an Arduino compatible dev. board 0o
[12:57] <jpds> shauno: And you can always put MAAS on a VM.
[12:57] <shauno> I don't get why it's near-impossible to just install the openstack packages on a machine
[13:00] <jpds> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6188042/
[13:00] <jpds> Works for me.
[13:00] <jpds> (as a test-bed, that is).
[13:11] <diddledan> jpds: I think what shaun wants is to be able to install using ubuntu-server's MAAS controller installation routine, and use that MAAS to set up openstack on the same machine as MAAS controller
[13:11] <diddledan> so an easy spin-up from blank machine to mass+openstack
[13:11] <diddledan> maas*
[13:12] <jpds> diddledan: Sounds like a nasty file-conflict-pit scenario.
[13:12] <diddledan> not, as it appears you've done, spin up a server, install kvm, install random other junk, set up libvirt, install a maas node, install several maas nodes and run juju in the virtual machines
[13:13] <shauno> ideally, I'd like it to be installable without going 3 levels deep in buzzword soup
[13:13] <diddledan> shauno: I'm with you on that
[13:13] <jpds> diddledan: Oh, I thought you were saying that everything should be on one machine.
[13:14] <jpds> OpenStack+MAAS+juju - done. :)
[13:14] <diddledan> jpds: I am
[13:14] <jpds> diddledan: One machine, as in one virtual machine.
[13:14] <jpds> ?
[13:15] <diddledan> jpds: no, maas server, configures itself via maas magic to run openstack in several virtual machines
[13:15] <jpds> Ah, OK, that's what I have.
[13:15] <diddledan> jpds: no, your maas server isn't on bare metal
[13:16] <jpds> diddledan: Which is a good thing, as it doesn't do much other than DHCP/DNS once everything is set up. ;)
[13:16] <diddledan> jpds: take a blank machine. install maas server. use maas to install virtual machines running openstack
[13:17] <diddledan> jpds: it's NOT a good thing because you need to configure the server which runs the virtual environment the maas server sits within
[13:17] <diddledan> it's not "out of the box" in any way shape or form
[13:18] <jpds> Disagree.
[13:19] <jpds> You need to configure MAAS anyway.
[13:19] <shauno> that's what I don't get - why?
[13:20] <diddledan> you shouldn't have to use one method to set up the bare metal and maas and then an entirely different method to set up openstack
[13:20] <shauno> for my scenario, I want to put openstack on a single, physical host. I'm less than sold on why it should take maas & juju to get that far
[13:20] <diddledan> we want a fire and forget way to install onto a bare metal single machine an openstack
[13:20] <jpds> shauno: Because you need to tell MAAS about your IPs/DNS settings?
[13:21] <shauno> why does maas come into it at all?
[13:22] <jpds> shauno: Because juju needs a provisioner to manage the environment?
[13:23] <diddledan> and therein lies the problem - juju shouldn't be required to set up a single-host openstack
[13:23] <shauno> I feel like I'm stuck in an "but I don't like spam" gag :)
[13:23] <jpds> diddledan: Then you have no [sane] way to automagically manage the environment. :)
[13:24] <shauno> to turn a fresh machine into an openstack node on redhat, I can yum install openstack-packstack && packstack --allinone
[13:24] <mgdm> it's quite nifty, that
[13:24] <diddledan> jpds: bingo
[13:24] <mgdm> though the initial release of packstack on Fedora 19 was broken in countless comedy ways
[13:24] <mgdm> like 'failing to account for mysql being replaced by mariadb' level of comedy
[13:26] <shauno> that's what I'm trying to find the ubuntu equivalent of.  and throwing up more machines just to abstract "this machine" into a managed environment seems like several layers of overkill
[13:28] <diddledan> "sing it sista"
[13:29] <shauno> completely ignoring the "how do I turn --allinone into a small cluster when I finally confuse someone into giving me a budget" for now ;)
[13:30] <diddledan> lol @ confuse
[13:30] <mgdm> to build an OpenStack cluster from scratch, you must first invent the universe
[13:30] <diddledan> in other news, hetzner are awesomely priced
[13:31] <diddledan> mgdm: that's the problem.. why can't we build off the universe we have?
[13:31] <diddledan> why a whole new universe?!
[13:31] <diddledan> entirely overkill for a virtual machine or two
[14:14] <^Snake> I'm looking for some information, if anyone would like to share their personal opinion. I'm looking to dual-boot my laptop, Vista Home Premium & Ubuntu 12.04
[14:14] <diddledan> ...
[14:15] <^Snake> Any preference over what Format to have for the Ubuntu partition ?
[14:15] <daftykins> ugh Vista
[14:15] <daftykins> ext4
[14:15] <diddledan> ^Snake: use ext4 un;ess you really want btrfs for reasons unknown
[14:15] <^Snake> what is btrfs, not heard of that 1 before?
[14:15] <diddledan> btrfs is still technically "unstable"
[14:15] <popey> use ext4
[14:16] <^Snake> ok, thanks
[14:16] <diddledan> but it's where everything will eventually head when it becomes generally ready
[14:16] <diddledan> if you don't really care then use ext4
[14:17] <^Snake> It's a 1TB HDD, so I was thinking of 70Gb for Vista, 20Gb or so for Ubuntu, ??? for the Swap File, & then the rest for personal files partition, shared across Vista & Ubuntu
[14:17] <popey> what format will that be?
[14:17] <^Snake> Is there any specific size I should set the Swap File Partition ?
[14:17] <popey> (the shared bit)
[14:18] <popey> is it a laptop or desktop
[14:18] <popey> ?
[14:18] <popey> ah, laptop you said
[14:18] <^Snake> NTFS for personal files, so Ubuntu & Vista can access it
[14:18] <popey> right.
[14:18] <^Snake> Laptop, yeah
[14:18] <popey> if you plan on hibernating then swap = ram size
[14:18] <popey> if not then "some swap"
[14:18] <popey> how much RAM?
[14:20] <^Snake> System has 2x1Gb Cards
[14:21] <popey> so some swap, 1GB would probably be okay
[14:21] <^Snake> ok
[14:21] <popey> (given you have plenty of space)
[14:23] <^Snake> I use alot of programs on Vista, so not sure how much space the similar would take on Ubuntu, all personal files as said will be on a seperate partition, so would 20Gb be sufficient for Ubuntu, or should I allocate more?
[14:24] <daftykins> 20GB would be good
[14:24] <popey> 20GB is a good start
[14:24] <daftykins> any media you may keep is what will munch through space
[14:25] <^Snake> ok, thanks, gonna partition up teh hard drive soon, tks for the info
[14:46] <mungbean> jpds: only hosts in a "cluster" in cloudstack need have the same hardware
[14:47] <jpds> mungbean: As supposed to openstack' "I'll take anything that can do some form of virt". :)
[14:48] <mungbean> i don't see an issue with it
[15:05] <diddledan> one problem you'll face with requiring identical hosts is the inability to run a rolling upgrade
[15:07] <Myrtti> I haz a phone charger!
[15:07] <Myrtti> wheee
[15:07] <Myrtti> (I don't yet have a phone to charge with it)
[15:08] <Myrtti> time to take it apart!
[15:09] <daftykins> D:
[15:09] <daftykins> why-for?
[15:14] <Myrtti> https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/575670_10151891152244111_1124883227_n.jpg not a big fan of yellow
[15:15] <daftykins> is that the nokia Qi charger thingy?
[15:15] <Myrtti> yup
[15:15] <Myrtti> 35€ used :-D
[15:16] <Myrtti> I can knit something to cover the yellow so I don't really care what colour it is
[15:16] <daftykins> ah-har
[15:16] <daftykins> i haven't really used the Qi charger i got for my Nexus 4, i might as well sell it
[15:16] <Myrtti> the retail price of those is mindnumbing
[15:17] <daftykins> Nexus 4s?
[15:17] <daftykins> they are impressively cheap now
[15:17] <Myrtti> no, the Nokia Fatboy http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/nokia-lumia-820-920-wireless-charging-fatboy-pillow-dt-901rd-red-p37246.htm
[15:17] <daftykins> the thing i picked up was £25
[15:17] <Myrtti> well, Nexus 4 is as mentioned here in the past days, 400€ for 8GB
[15:18] <Myrtti> so yes, that as well
[15:18] <daftykins> did you not get the price drop as per the UK?
[15:18] <directhex> don't use a nokia charger for nexus 4
[15:18] <Myrtti> there is no Google Play with Devices herer
[15:18] <Myrtti> -r
[15:18] <daftykins> aww
[15:18] <daftykins> nah, nor for me on Guernsey
[15:18] <daftykins> i had to proxy via England to order it and pay the VAT =|
[15:18] <daftykins> Google refused to refund me
[15:20] <daftykins> oh and ship it via a proxy courier
[15:20] <daftykins> :>
[15:25] <daftykins> anyone ever had a battery get stuck in an APC UPS?
[15:25] <daftykins> it is muchly non-conducive to getting things done
[15:26] <gordonjcp> drill a hole in it and devise some sort of puller?
[15:26] <gordonjcp> slide hammer maybe?
[15:27] <Myrtti> if it were someone else suggesting that, I'd probably be scared shirtless
[15:28] <daftykins> i'd be loathe to attempt drilling beside a lead acid battery
[15:28] <gordonjcp> I meant drill the battery ;-)
[15:28] <gordonjcp> it's fine just hose it all down with water and baking soda
[15:28] <daftykins> O_O
[15:28] <daftykins> it's quite an old unit now
[15:28] <daftykins> second APC BR800I at a clients to die
[15:33] <shauno> that's not unusual at all.  there's several ways of cells to die that cause them to swell  (they prefer swelling over leaking)
[15:33] <daftykins> yip
[15:33] <daftykins> i suspected as much
[15:34] <daftykins> i got the connector out then started pushing and what not
[15:34] <daftykins> tugging away
[15:34] <diddledan> shauno: remember my blackbook? the battery in that swelled like a baboon's bum
[15:34] <daftykins> turned the unit upside down - nope!
[15:34] <shauno> diddledan: that's by design too :p
[15:35] <diddledan> I think I'd be inclined to replace the apc unit in it's entirety
[15:35] <daftykins> yeah, that'd be the short route
[15:35] <diddledan> if shauno were a salesperson he'd jump at the chance to sell us an overly specced unit
[15:35] <daftykins> then there will be two to go for recycling
[15:35] <shauno> you're still left with a scary battery to dispose of though :/  they have a trade-in program to part-exchange an old one for a new one, but you won't find a courier happy to take the old one like that
[15:36] <diddledan> shauno: WEEE
[15:36] <daftykins> shauno: when i called in the guy was in the US and couldn't confirm whether a courier even operates in Guernsey
[15:36] <daftykins> he actively avoided the question
[15:36] <diddledan> take it to the council tip
[15:36] <diddledan> pretend it's non-commercial
[15:37] <daftykins> it isn't, it's domestic
[15:37] <daftykins> but yeah his other guy will take the electronics to the local recycling
[15:37] <popey> diddledan: did you ever sell your blackbook?
[15:38] <diddledan> popey: yeah, it went on ebay about a month ago
[15:38] <diddledan> the recipient said they were very happy with it
[15:40] <popey> yay
[15:41] <daftykins> http://www.ebuyer.com/238120-apc-back-ups-pro-900-ups-ac-230-v-540-watt-900-va-br900gi
[15:41] <daftykins> i've put a couple of those in lately
[15:41] <diddledan> OT: http://i2.wp.com/www.geeksaresexy.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/internet-dating-1.png?w=600
[15:42] <diddledan> daftykins: that looks nice
[15:42] <daftykins> they're pretty big, ~380mm deep
[15:42] <diddledan> I've got a Smart-UPS 750 here
[15:42] <daftykins> :>
[15:43] <Laney> bah
[15:43] <daftykins> my BR800 is still going (same one as the dead two up at this place i've been referrin to)
[15:43] <Laney> lastpass autofill broke in chromium
[15:43]  * daftykins doesn't understand password managers
[15:43] <diddledan> one of these jobbies: http://www.ebuyer.com/226815-apc-smart-ups-750-lcd-ups-ac-230-v-500-watt-750-va-smt750i
[15:43] <daftykins> wasn't there a big flaw in lastpass published?
[15:43] <diddledan> daftykins: was there?
[15:43] <shauno> our ups is 7 racks wide :/ 380mm is 'cute'
[15:43] <Laney> they had some in 2011
[15:44] <diddledan> I know they got me to change my password a while back (2 years ago?)
[15:45] <diddledan> that'ld be the same timeline that Laney is talking about
[15:45] <daftykins> hmm can't remember
[15:45] <daftykins> guy in another channel is a security guy
[15:46] <daftykins> diddledan: heh see the second comment on that product?
[15:46] <daftykins> "power sockets loose, inserted pieces of card to make function" >_<
[15:48] <diddledan> daftykins: I'm betting he bought the wrong cables - probably bought actual kettle leads instead of IEC801(? is that the right number?)
[15:48] <daftykins> nope
[15:49] <daftykins> diddledan: nah it was a she, maybe the order is randomised
[15:49] <daftykins> ah well
[15:49] <diddledan> nope, IEC801 is ESD
[15:50] <mgdm> doof doof doof doof
[15:50] <diddledan> daftykins: yeah, I think we're reading the same comment - the power sockets or rather the plugs in them flopped to the side and lost connectivity - wrong plug basically
[15:50]  * mgdm is listening to Chemical Brothers
[15:51] <daftykins> Walt and Jesse's fave
[15:51] <mgdm> who?
[15:52] <daftykins> Breaking Bad characters
[15:52] <mgdm> Oh, I never watched that
[15:52] <mungbean> never seen breaking dad or 24
[15:53] <mungbean> or lost
[15:53] <mgdm> and now, thanks to someone at lunch the other day who blew the ending, I don't need to
[15:53] <diddledan> breaking bad finished recently - I never saw it from start to end
[15:53] <bigcalm> Damn it. I just Lost the Game
[15:53] <daftykins> mgdm: argh, i stayed offline 'til i'd seen the finale XD
[15:53] <mungbean> game of thrones
[15:53] <mungbean> i don't watch yank telly in gerenal
[15:54] <daftykins> nothing wrong with it!
[15:54] <daftykins> some...
[15:54] <diddledan> I like the modern teenager take on game of thrones: game of phones
[15:54] <mungbean> most US telly is designed to be good in first series and milk it all the way to 12 series
[15:54] <diddledan> u fink i iz mesin w u?
[15:54] <diddledan> argh
[15:55] <diddledan> now I need some brain and eye bleach
[15:55] <shauno> anyone know the name of the type of pump that has a reed in a wheel?  I seem to fail at google when I can't remember the term I want to search for
[15:55] <diddledan> shauno: the reeded wheel pump?
[15:56] <diddledan> erm.. the pumpy reed wheel?
[15:56] <shauno> diddledan: sometimes it's perfectly okay not to answer ;)
[15:56] <diddledan> the wheely reed pump?
[15:56] <bigcalm> Ha
[15:56] <diddledan> shauno: you'd miss me if I didn't talk
[15:57] <daftykins> ^ citation needed
[15:57] <diddledan> lol
[15:57] <diddledan> so, I've managed a whole day of work with very little to show for it
[15:59] <daftykins> i've also achieved very little
[16:01] <diddledan> my colleagues at the office haven't fared much better I think. their net has been somewhat blinky
[16:01] <daftykins> :S
[16:01] <daftykins> oh you worked from home today?
[16:01] <diddledan> yup
[16:05] <popey> \o/ WFH!
[16:06] <bigcalm> \o/ CATS!
[16:08] <^Snake> a quick question, I partitioned up 70Gb (71680) for Vista, while that's installing, been reading up on Ubuntu, a few sites recommended setting /home as a seperate partition, do I need to create a seperate partition for that, or can I use a folder on the shared data partition for Vista for that?
[16:08] <directhex> ^Snake, i'd definitely not try to use a folder on a windows partition for /home
[16:09] <directhex> ^Snake, you can't properly represent unix permissions on an ntfs partition, so you'll have Problems
[16:09] <daftykins> ^indeed
[16:09] <popey> you could have a separate home partition, but there's few benefits
[16:09] <daftykins> being able to reinstall is the greatest and that's a huuuuuge benefit!
[16:10] <^Snake> not a windows partition exactly, partitions -> 70Gb for Vista, 20Gb for Ubuntu, 2Gb for Swap File, the rest of 1Tb HDD for personal files, shared with Ubuntu & Vista
[16:10] <daftykins> er, reinstall and keep data i mean
[16:10] <popey> you don't need /home separate for that
[16:10] <popey> haven't needed to for years now
[16:11] <^Snake> as I'm saving personal files for the most part to the last partition (Vista & Ubuntu can access it), where would I set /Home to go? & what sort of things would normally be in /Home ???
[16:12] <daftykins> ^Snake: yeah so if it's going to be NTFS, that personal data drive, don't try and put /home on it
[16:12] <diddledan> the biggest 2 advantages of separate home partition - 1) if you fill it up your programs don't stop because the /tmp folder can't be written to. 2) you can share the /home between two or more OSes
[16:12] <daftykins>  /home would contain your data (e.g. My Pics,Video, Music, etc) and all software program configurations
[16:13] <^Snake> ok
[16:13] <Myrtti> I tried putting /home on NTFS once for fun
[16:13] <^Snake> I thought you can only have a max of 4 partitions ?
[16:14] <Myrtti> or was it VFAT, can't remember
[16:14] <gordonjcp> ^Snake: logical partitions
[16:14] <^Snake> Vista, Ubuntu, Swap, Data (shared)
[16:14] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: NTFS might actually work
[16:14] <diddledan> home on windows+cifs is evil
[16:14] <Myrtti> gordonjcp: this was pre NTFS-3G
[16:14] <diddledan> you get all sorts of errors from various stuff
[16:14] <daftykins> Myrtti: did you get a new drive for your laptop in the end?
[16:14] <^Snake> ok, didn't think of that
[16:15] <Myrtti> daftykins: it wasn't far off
[16:15] <directhex> the 4 partition limit only applies to bootcamp'd macs
[16:16] <gordonjcp> ffs, a tiny Chinese woman has just walked into my door mirror and hit herself in the head
[16:17] <bigcalm> That is tiny
[16:17] <gordonjcp> bigcalm: yes
[16:17] <daftykins> O_O
[16:17] <bigcalm> Unless you drive a monster truck
[16:17] <gordonjcp> nope, just a Dispatch van
[16:18] <daftykins> was she trying to get close enough to key the bodywork? ;/
[16:18] <gordonjcp> no idea
[16:18] <diddledan> directhex: I want whatever you're smoking
[16:18] <gordonjcp> I think she just wasn't looking where she was going
[16:18] <directhex> diddledan, ?
[16:18] <diddledan> 4 partition limit on macs?
[16:18] <diddledan> they use GPT
[16:19] <directhex> diddledan, yes, they do. but bootcamp doesn't officially support booting windows over UEFI, it uses a CSM to boot via BIOS emulation
[16:19] <directhex> and windows for BIOS can't boot from GPT
[16:20] <directhex> so bootcamp makes a shadow MBR partition table copy on the disk, which represents the same partition offsets as the underlying GPT table
[16:20] <gordonjcp> there is a scary amount of ridiculous hipsters walking around town
[16:20] <gordonjcp> (says the guy sitting in a van with a coffee from an indy coffee shop and a macbook on 3g)
[16:20] <directhex> however, it's not possible to represent logical partitions in this manner, the offsets don't line up. so only primary partitions can be represented
[16:20] <directhex> as such, the limit of 4 primary partitions applies to bootcamp'd macs
[16:21] <directhex> QED, wench!
[16:21] <daftykins> XD
[16:21] <daftykins> directhex: well put sir, well put
[16:21] <diddledan> you only need windows within the first four partitions, the rest of the disk can be organised however you want
[16:22] <directhex> windows will only see the MBR table, not the GPT table
[16:22] <directhex> any partitions which can't be represented in the shadow MBR table will not exist to windows
[16:22] <diddledan> windows 7 supports gpt
[16:22] <directhex> yes, it does, for non-boot drives, or boot drives when using the 64-bit version with uefi
[16:23] <directhex> this also raises the issue of macs using 32-bit uefi in some cases, of course
[16:23] <directhex> but that's a distinct issue
[16:24] <directhex> bootcamp, the apple product, supports only bios-booted windows
[16:24] <directhex> and bios-booted windows only supports mbr for the boot drive
[16:26] <^Snake> My laptop is 32-bit, a Samsung from 2008
[16:26] <diddledan> and bootcamp doesn't support linux at all so the chances of hitting an issue with 4 partition limit is minimal
[16:26] <daftykins> ^Snake: surely 64-bit capable, what's the processor?
[16:26] <daftykins> or is it a netbook :<
[16:27] <^Snake> Hang-on, cooking food here.
[16:27] <daftykins> at half 5 D:
[16:27] <^Snake> it's a "Samsung R60plus"
[16:28] <directhex> core 1 duo
[16:28] <directhex> blimey
[16:28] <daftykins> T2310?
[16:28] <diddledan> T2310? wow they really ramped up production of terminators
[16:31] <daftykins> sigh.
[16:31] <daftykins> i've never used an IRC client's ignore feature, but diddledan you make me feel like change
[16:33] <directhex>    Ignore list is empty.
[16:33] <directhex> wow, a clean slate
[16:33] <directhex> that wasn't empty in the old quakenet days
[16:33] <directhex> WHEN I WERE A LAD
[16:34] <daftykins> ;)
[16:34] <daftykins> glad we escaped there.
[16:34] <mgdm> my only ignores are people with flaky connections, and then I ignore joins/parts/quits
[16:35] <popey> 41 ignores here
[16:35] <daftykins> :O
[16:36] <popey> mostly joins/parts/quits in various channels
[16:36] <Laney> I have about 40 of those
[16:36] <Laney> then 03/10 17:33:19   44 *: JOINS PARTS QUITS KICKS NICKS
[16:36] <Laney> one day I gave up on that
[16:36] <Laney> didn't bother to remove the old ones
[16:36] <popey> heh
[16:37]  * davmor2 just set it globally on xchat
[16:40] <^Snake> with regard to my system, is the 4 partitions a hardware or Windows OS limitation?
[16:41] <^Snake> as in theory, Vista will only have access to 2, the Boot/Operating system partition & the Personal Drive partition
[16:42] <diddledan> ^Snake: it's a limitation of MBR
[16:42] <^Snake> so basically, hardware
[16:42] <daftykins> no
[16:42] <^Snake> ?
[16:42] <daftykins> MBR is a partition table, so it's software
[16:43] <daftykins> it's very close to being old hat
[16:44] <^Snake> Vista & Personal is going to be NTFS, Ubuntu, Swap File, /Home ??? are possible partitions, that makes 5 in total
[16:44] <^Snake> Ubuntu should be able to see all, but Windows should only see 2
[16:44] <daftykins> only the C: Vista needs to be a primary one
[16:44] <daftykins> the rest can be logical
[16:44] <popey> Heh. Sam has discovered that the neighbours kids have the same walkie talkie we do
[16:45] <popey> So he's in our house talking to them in their house
[16:45] <popey> pre-cursor to mobile phone
[16:45] <directhex> ^Snake, you don't need to worry about a 4 partition limit for your samsung
[16:45] <Laney> SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKEEEEEEEEEEEEE
[16:45] <daftykins> :D
[16:45] <popey> Hm. I feel the urge to play MGS
[16:45] <Laney> me too :(
[16:45] <daftykins> Laney: we're communicating with a figure hidden in a cardboard box right now
[16:45] <directhex> i never liked MGS
[16:45] <daftykins> directhex: :( #1 was great
[16:45] <popey> I _really_ enjoyed it
[16:46] <davmor2> popey: MSG2
[16:46] <daftykins> i love stealth games
[16:46] <popey> burned a weekend or two playing it
[16:46] <^Snake> ok, haven't dealt with this in years, will have to do more reading (Dyslexic, & don't remember the usuage)
[16:46] <diddledan> MGS?
[16:46] <popey> oh, maybe the second one
[16:46] <daftykins> metal gear solid
[16:46] <diddledan> aah
[16:46] <popey> I love the hidey type games
[16:46] <popey> hoping Volume will be decent
[16:46] <Laney> started a second playthrough of hitman the other day
[16:46] <Laney> hard suit only is hard
[16:46] <daftykins> i always sucked hard at the Hitman games
[16:46] <popey> http://www.mikebithellgames.com/volume/
[16:47] <directhex> Laney, was trying for suit only in hitman absolution, but i can't do one of them missions suit only
[16:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> Interesting: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/10/intel-powers-an-arduino-for-the-first-time-with-new-galileo-board/ ~$60
[16:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> x86 comes with Linux
[16:48] <Laney> directhex: what difficulty?
[16:48] <directhex> Laney, don't remember. easy!
[16:49] <Laney> ah
[16:49] <Laney> might try it on an easier one
[16:49] <Laney> hard is a bit much for me right now
[16:49] <popey> Heh, Sam comes in from School and powers up the xbox to play Star Wars
[16:49] <Laney> don't really have the patience
[16:50] <directhex> um... death factory, iirc, is the level
[16:51] <directhex> only one i had no hope on suit only
[16:52] <bigcalm> popey: did you get a hello in-between these events?
[16:52] <Laney> i really hate being spotted too
[16:52] <popey> i get "can I play xbox"
[16:52] <Laney> so restarting every time that happens means that levels take a long time
[16:53] <popey> he has his own chair in front of the telly
[16:53] <popey> poor lad, it's only a 15" telly, need a bigger/better one really
[16:53] <bigcalm> popey: new glasses?
[16:53] <popey> he has new glasses
[16:53] <popey> he used to be right pressed up against the telly
[16:53] <bigcalm> Awww
[16:54] <popey> tongue out
[16:54] <bigcalm> o.O
[16:54] <popey> tensing up
[16:54] <davmor2> popey: come on be fair you get can I play minecraft more I bet ;)
[16:54] <popey> sitting very far forward on his chair
[16:54] <popey> nah, he's more into xbox at the moment
[16:54] <popey> he's played minecraft for 2 years ☻
[16:54] <popey> xbox is new to him
[16:55] <daftykins> my friend has offered to lend me his newer model xbox slim, vs. my elite
[16:55] <daftykins> tempting but hrmm
[16:55] <Azelphur> Is there anything substancially more awesome than the pebble on the horizon?
[16:55] <popey> damnit, now I'm looking at tellys
[16:55] <daftykins> pebble? 0o
[16:57] <bigcalm> The watch?
[16:57] <bigcalm> How about the samsung one?
[16:58] <popey> thats tied to their phones
[16:58] <popey> no thank you
[16:58] <directhex> a watch that needs charging daily. oh boy!
[16:58] <popey> yeah
[16:58] <popey> I'm out.
[16:58] <daftykins> you lost me at 'watch' :>
[16:59] <popey> kinda getting sick of the star wars music now
[16:59] <daftykins> cross-post from another channel, wow these chinese killer hornets are big: http://qz.com/131374/the-body-count-is-now-42-in-the-attack-of-chinas-killer-hornets/
[16:59] <daftykins> popey: haha noise making young-uns is high on my list of reasons for no kids
[17:04] <popey> hmm, giffgaff sms still busted?
[17:04] <popey> I can send in one direction but not back the other way
[17:04] <popey> which is odd
[17:04] <popey> given both numbers are on giffgaff
[17:05] <daftykins> are their service center numbers identical?
[17:06] <popey> dunno
[17:06] <popey> i think this is an ubuntu thing
[17:06] <daftykins> ah
[17:07] <popey> davmor2: oi oi, wanna send a test text to me?
[17:07] <popey> 07842716204
[17:07] <popey> anyone can ☻
[17:07] <popey> or 07842718518
[17:08]  * diddledan phones popey in the middle of the night :-p
[17:09] <popey> knock yourself out, they're nowhere near my bed ☻
[17:09] <diddledan> lol
[17:09] <diddledan> dang
[17:09] <diddledan> that's no fun :-D
[17:09] <popey> indeed
[17:10] <daftykins> i always hesitate to email people late at night who i know have smartphones
[17:10] <daftykins> >_<
[17:10] <jpds> popey: You don't sleep with your Ubuntu phone?
[17:10] <diddledan> that's pretty much everyone these days, isn't it?
[17:11] <popey> http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Blog/Update-on-our-recent-outage/ba-p/10101611/page/13#comments
[17:11] <popey> seems giffgaff issue
[17:11] <daftykins> you'd be surprised
[17:11] <daftykins> some of my friends are still trapped in the past
[17:23] <popey> haha, suddenly the walkie talkie wakes up
[17:23] <popey> "SAM! You coming outside!?"
[17:23] <popey> xbox gets shutdown, and he's gone
[17:24] <daftykins> good to know kids still favour the outdoors, somewhere in the world
[17:25] <popey> yeah
[17:25] <daftykins> says me sat indoors feet up with a laptop on my lap
[17:25] <popey> its funny, only this summer did all the kids in the road start playing out together
[17:25] <popey> heh
[17:25] <daftykins> ^_^
[17:26] <popey> there's 10 in this road
[17:26] <popey> is nice to get peace at the weekend when they play out
[17:26] <daftykins> :D
[17:26] <daftykins> i'd imagine those clos type housing spots are handy for that
[17:27] <daftykins> there were some near me as a kid, but they were states (local gov) housing areas
[17:28] <popey> we're in a dead end so mostly no cars come down
[17:28] <popey> and when they do, the kids shout "CAR!" to look after the little ones
[17:28] <daftykins> :D
[17:28] <daftykins> yeah
[17:30] <Azelphur> popey: I just came up with the most hilarious data transfer method, ever.
[17:30] <Azelphur> popey: have you played computercraft for minecraft yet?
[17:30] <daftykins> Simpsons did it
[17:30] <popey> no
[17:31] <Azelphur> popey: basically it adds computers to minecraft, the computers can communicate (via a cable, or via limited range wireless)
[17:31] <Azelphur> but I just figured out a way to get data across an unlimited range in the most amusing way ever xD
[17:31] <Azelphur> you know how ender chests work?
[17:32] <popey> yes
[17:32] <popey> funnel stuff into one and out the other end?
[17:32] <Azelphur> encode data into binary, break it up into 4 8 bit bytes, put a stack of items of that size into the ender chest, have the computer at the other end read the stack size
[17:32] <Azelphur> XD
[17:32] <popey> excellent
[17:32] <Azelphur> I figure it'll do about 4 bytes/second, hahaha
[17:32] <Azelphur> minecraft internet \o/
[17:33] <popey> Minecranet
[17:33] <Azelphur> hehe
[17:33] <daftykins> IP over chest
[17:33] <Azelphur> daftykins: that's totally what we should call it.
[17:33] <daftykins> ^_^
[17:34] <daftykins> i give it to you free, sir
[17:34] <Azelphur> xD
[17:34] <popey> haha
[17:34] <popey> Brilliant
[17:34] <popey> Youtube it. This time next year.. millionaire
[17:34] <Azelphur> xD
[17:38] <daftykins> Google will buy you
[17:38] <davmor2> popey: did you get a text?
[17:38] <davmor2> popey: I was at tea sorry :)
[17:39] <JamesTait> dwatkins, did Myrtti share this with you? https://plus.google.com/+ThinkGeek/posts/LkPwXoLe7Rw
[17:39] <popey> nope
[17:40] <davmor2> popey: as in did some one text you?
[17:40] <davmor2> popey: Rather than did you get a text that I sent :D
[17:40] <ali1234> Azelphur: congratulations you have invented ethernet
[17:40] <popey> nope
[17:40] <Azelphur> ali1234: xD
[17:42] <dwatkins> JamesTait: hehe
[17:42] <davmor2> popey: sent
[17:42] <JamesTait> dwatkins, happy Virus Appreciation Day. ;)
[17:45] <davmor2> popey: did you get it yet?
[17:46] <popey> no
[17:48] <ali1234> Azelphur: can you hack computer craft so it starts up real virtual machines instead of the lua thing?
[17:48] <Azelphur> ali1234: possibly, you can modify the standard LUA stuff
[17:48] <davmor2> popey: let me try sending one to myself
[17:48] <Azelphur> on the server side, not client
[17:50] <dwatkins> JamesTait: apparently Germany is celebrating by having the day off
[17:51] <davmor2> popey: http://ubuntuone.com/3TTyL727vstytqPexXVI35 I received mine so those 2 I sent to you should of come through
[17:52] <davmor2> popey: those are the right numbers?
[17:53] <popey> yeah
[17:53] <davmor2> let me try again then
[17:53] <popey> directhex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=698Da1a2ScQ what the hell is this?
[17:53] <popey> i suspect it's giffgaff at fault
[17:54] <directhex> ?
[17:54] <JamesTait> dwatkins, blimey!
[17:55] <davmor2> popey: resent
[17:59] <davmor2> dwatkins, JamesTait: That's not the truth at all, some hacker planted a virus that told them all it was a day off :)
[17:59] <JamesTait> Mind hacks! :-O
[18:00] <daftykins> rofl fake GTA V
[18:00] <daftykins> weird
[18:01]  * DJones feels out if the loop, what is GTA V
[18:02] <daftykins> i'm going to go ahead and believe you're messing around there DJones :P
[18:02] <DJones> daftykins: Nope
[18:02] <daftykins> grand theft auto?
[18:02] <DJones> I'm guessing either a movie or game, probably game as its being mentioned here
[18:02] <daftykins> famous game series by Rockstar Games
[18:03] <DJones> This should be in twitter, "famous game series" Do What.... :)
[18:03] <DJones> I have never seen the game ever
[18:04] <daftykins> i can't take you seriously :(
[18:05] <DJones> Heh, In the last 10 years, the only game I've bought was minecraft
[18:05] <DJones> Probably longer, last game before that was Deus Ex
[18:05] <daftykins> a classic
[18:06] <DJones> Last game before that I can remember playing with any interest was Choplifter on the Apple ][
[18:10] <daftykins> ^_^
[18:11] <MartijnVdS> DJones: would that make you very young, or very old? :)
[18:12] <DJones> daftykins: From what I quickly read, GTA V involves runniong round like a headless chicken, nicking stuff & killing characters
[18:12] <MartijnVdS> DJones: nah, it's not much like that
[18:12] <MartijnVdS> there's actually a pretty good story
[18:12] <DJones> MartijnVdS: From my point of view, very young :)
[18:12] <MartijnVdS> it's like participating in a movie
[18:13] <daftykins> DJones: it's a sandbox game so it is what you make it :)
[18:13] <DJones> Yeah, but a movie called "Machetee" or a movie called "Titanic" :)
[18:14] <davmor2> http://ubuntuone.com/5D9grpBAvutXdXlMCmGD6K hmm new look dark theme just by changing the background image nice
[18:22] <popey> neat
[18:22] <MartijnVdS> DJones: yes.
[18:22] <DJones> Why does BBC website announce "What is bitcoin and how does it work" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24384897 And then not give an opportunity to respond, Oh, never mind....its BBC
[18:22] <daftykins> because they know how bad their own tech reporting is
[18:23] <DJones> Heh, and its even RCN
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> popey: I read the first sentence of the podcast announcement wrong, and wondered why you'd make such a short (thirty second) podcast
[18:46] <MartijnVdS> popey: "Not much news this week. Bye!"
[18:48] <daftykins> :D
[18:48] <daftykins> "nothing happened"
[18:48] <popey> NO NEWS.
[18:48] <popey> GO AWAY.
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> *intro music* NOTHING *outro music*
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> "I'm trapped in a podcast factory, please send help"
[18:51] <daftykins> XD
[18:51] <popey> ☻
[18:52] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: is that like being trapped in a stock, aikin and waterman music factory, if so popey wouldn't want to leave there :D
[18:59] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: who would? :)
[19:00]  * daftykins doesn't know what that is
[19:00] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzQQgrqFZHc
[19:01] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: writers of lots and lots of pop songs
[19:02] <daftykins> ah-har, ty
[19:05] <^Snake> Stock Atkin & Waterman, the FASTEST method for Soap Opera Actors to make it in the music industry, specially true in the late 80's & 90's
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> jump to 20 minutes in that video ;)
[22:04] <popey> davmor2: finally just getting your texts
[22:07] <daftykins> super speedy!