[05:46] <ming> any way to let the revision begins with  1 except I delete the .dzr directory after i get the source code with "bzr branch" ?
[06:02] <slangasek> ming: no, and as I mentioned the other day, that's the wrong goal.  The only way to get a different revision 1 is to /not share history/, which is contrary to the purpose of a distributed VCS
[06:10] <infinity> ming: I can't fathom why you'd WANT to reset the revision to 1.
[06:11] <ming> I am looking for a job and "they" ask me to do something to test me.
[06:12] <infinity> ming: If you're looking for a job with someone who wants you to remove history and attribution from code you fork, you might want to look for a better job.  Just sayin'. :P
[06:13] <slangasek> except that based on the branches ming linked to earlier, I suspect this is related to UbuntuKylin
[06:13] <slangasek> so I think we might want to address these strange branch management practices... :)
[06:13] <ming> Yes, you are right...
[06:13] <infinity> Indeed we might, then.
[06:14] <ming> I send an email to one of them, they say don't need to delete .bzr.
[06:15] <ming> I am interesting in open source things. In china, it's hard to get a job like this.
[06:17] <ming> but in the project page you can see they have different revison  all begin with 1,how they did it without remove .bzr directory?
[06:19] <infinity> Example branch?
[06:19] <ming> https://code.launchpad.net/chinese-calendar
[06:22] <infinity> It looks like instead of branching, people sometimes bzr export, then push it as a new branch, or similar.  Which is something approaching insane.
[06:22] <infinity> Since one can't then consolidate those branches.  And you lose all the history.
[06:22] <infinity> So, yeah, as slangasek says, perhaps someone should address this practise, not continue it.
[06:23] <sarnold> (but might make some amount of sense if all N people working on the chinese calendar are actually competing against each other rather than cooperating on its construction)
[06:24] <infinity> sarnold: It's a project with a free license, and only one "official" version in the archive.  Competition aside, they can clearly still yank each other's code, and only one trunk gets uploaded.
[06:24] <infinity> So, making merging back and forth harder just seems gratuitously silly. :P
[06:25] <sarnold> especially if the winner and the winner's code is intended to be merged back in..
[06:27] <ming> Maybe they think of something else...
[06:34] <ming> ‬another question ,how to build a deb and when user  install it, an icon displays on user's desktop ? Maybe you think this looks strange too. But for Chinese user,it's a good thing...
[06:35] <infinity> ming: If every package did that, users would have hundreds of icons on their desktop.  What makes yours more important?
[06:35] <infinity> ming: (This is why our current design just plain doesn't do that at all)
[06:37] <ming> I know you people think like this.
[06:38] <ming> but for China user, if there is no icon on desktop,they will can't find the software...
[06:39] <infinity> ming: So, you're implying that every piece of software installed in a default install (like I said, hundreds of applications) should have an icon on the desktop?
[06:39] <ming> of course not.
[06:40] <infinity> We do highlight a select few productivity apps (libreoffice, firefox..) and put them in the launcher by default as a hint.
[06:40] <infinity> Kylin could, of course, hand-pick a few different defaults (and may well do so, I've never installed it and looked).
[06:40] <ming> Maybe WPS office and something else.
[06:41] <smartboyhw> JackYu, ^
[06:41] <infinity> But individual packages adding themselves to the desktop or launcher leads to the "my application is more important than yours, so I get to be prominent" madness that, if taken to its obvious conclusion, leads to hundreds/thousands of icons.
[06:41] <ming> I agree with you as well, but...
[06:42] <ming> Now I should know how to do.
[06:43] <ming> some important software maybe will do like this to help people use their computer easily.
[06:46] <ming> To common user, they will be confused if there is no icon after they installed the software.
[07:00] <JackYu> ming, maybe you cloud add a Desktop Entry.
[07:01] <ming> i know this.
[07:02] <ming> it's a .desktop file.
[07:02] <ming> Are u the Administrator of UbuntuKylin Members ?
[07:03] <ming> He named JackYu, too.
[07:04] <ming> I hava some ideas now. I am reading Debian Policy Manual .
[07:07] <JackYu> ming, as far as I know, there is no requirement for revision starting from 1.
[07:10] <ming> JackYu, maybe the man I asked mad a slip of the tongue while I think too much about this.
[07:13] <JackYu> ming, should be that:). It's strange...
[07:15] <JackYu> ming, what's you LP id?
[07:16] <ming> JackYu, it's anywnztj.
[07:16] <ming> What's wrong?
[07:17] <JackYu> ming, nothing, just a look:).
[07:17] <ming> JackYu,:-))
[07:31] <JackYu> slangasek, infinity, sarnold, smartboyhw, hi, the UbuntuKylin test dose NOT require the revision restarting from 1. Furthermore, it is not a good answer if doing like that:).
[07:32] <smartboyhw> JackYu, heh heh heh
[07:32] <JackYu> sorry for the delayed reply, I'm in a conf:(
[07:32] <smartboyhw> Conf on Sundays, baed
[07:32] <smartboyhw> *bad
[12:14] <maxiaojun> seems like debian is no longer a frontier for foss packaging?
[12:17] <maxiaojun> for example https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat mentions hexchat
[12:18] <maxiaojun> fedora and opensuse have hexchat in repo, not the case for debian and ubuntu
[12:20] <brainwash> maxiaojun: bug 995018
[12:27] <smartboyhw> There is actually a ITP bug in debian too
[12:27] <smartboyhw> Just that nobody touched it
[12:28] <smartboyhw> maxiaojun, ^
[12:30] <maxiaojun> seems like debian is no longer a frontier for foss packaging?
[12:30] <infinity> ...
[12:30] <infinity> Because one thing you want packaged isn't?
[12:31] <maxiaojun> examples are many, i just hit this one today though
[12:31] <infinity> As it's always been in Debian, things get packaged when someone who's using it wants to package it.
[12:31] <infinity> I don't use it, therefor I wouldn't package it.
[12:32] <maxiaojun> maybe those want a unix-ish "desktop" still use debian, other desktop users don't
[12:33] <maxiaojun> ubuntu has many desktop users, but when people want something packaged, the answer is 'hey, go to debian first'
[12:34] <tumbleweed> maxiaojun: that's because packages that are only in Ubuntu tend to go unmaintained
[12:35] <infinity> Someone does appear to be maintaining hexchat packages in a PPA, at least.
[12:35] <infinity> https://launchpad.net/~gwendal-lebihan-dev/+archive/hexchat-stable
[12:35] <infinity> And quite actively so.
[12:35] <maxiaojun> tumbleweed: same thing for debian
[12:35] <tumbleweed> maxiaojun: no, in Debian packages have maintainers
[12:35] <tumbleweed> it's their job to keep a package in shape
[12:36] <maxiaojun> tumbleweed: zombie maintainers are many
[12:36] <tumbleweed> sure, but at least we know to remove the package, when the maintainer has been gone for a while
[12:37] <maxiaojun> tumbleweed: really?
[12:37] <tumbleweed> yes
[12:37] <tumbleweed> also, it's not like it's any harder to do things in Debian, and you get more users for free
[12:37] <maxiaojun> debian stuck with texlive 2009 for ~3 years? have you removed it?
[12:38] <tumbleweed> maxiaojun: um, I don't know what makes you think that
[12:38] <tumbleweed> http://packages.qa.debian.org/t/texlive-base.html
[12:38] <maxiaojun> it seems ok now
[12:39] <maxiaojun> but don't you find it strange that u 12.04 has texlive 2009?
[12:39] <infinity> Not really.
[12:39] <tumbleweed> not particularly. texlive is huge & crazy
[12:40] <infinity> Debian had moved on to 2011 at that point, but I chose not to do the transition in the middle of an LTS cycle.
[12:40] <cjwatson> sometimes there are good reasons too.  groff was at an old version for a long time, but it wasn't because I was inactive
[12:40] <infinity> New versions aren't always the right answer to everything.
[12:41] <cjwatson> by just pointing at versions without looking at the backstory, you're basically cherry-picking headlines over substance.
[12:41] <infinity> Erm, aren't we upstream for software-properties?
[12:41] <cjwatson> Pretty sure we are yes
[12:42] <infinity> We sure are.
[12:42]  * infinity rejects smoser's upload.
[12:42] <maxiaojun> ok, i admit that i didn't check changlog for texlive
[12:42] <maxiaojun> http://ftp-master.metadata.debian.org/changelogs//non-free/r/rar/rar_4.2.0-1_changelog
[12:43] <infinity> smoser: Can you commit a sane version number to lp:software-properties and reupload?
[12:44] <maxiaojun> this one is a real example, rar 4.0b2 4.0b3 broken for many languages that are non-English/non-ASCII/non-OEM-encodable for ~ 2 years
[12:47] <infinity> Okay, massive props for patches with ASCII art in them.
[12:47] <infinity> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/152578059/libwacom_0.7-1_0.7-1ubuntu1.diff.gz
[12:48] <maxiaojun> another good example is ibus-* packages, do you think LI Daobing, as a maintainer, still cares even a little bit?
[12:50]  * infinity goes to bed before maxiaojun decides to point out any packages he maintains.
[12:52] <maxiaojun> I'm not criticizing LI Daobing. I'm criticizing the so-called maintainer system. Basically LI was an advocate of IBus at 2009-2010, made many initial packages. And he didn't do anything after 2010. While he is still listed as maintainer.
[12:54] <maxiaojun> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=tegaki
[12:57] <maxiaojun> Have you found that  tegaki-zinnia-traditional-chinese comes so late? because LI didn't package it. And no one bothered to fix this.
[12:58] <maxiaojun> in fact it is not fixed in debian still http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=tegaki
[13:03] <maxiaojun> tumbleweed: you still advocate for the maintainer system?
[13:04] <smartboyhw> maxiaojun, I advocate for the team maintainer system...
[13:04] <tumbleweed> infinity: double plus good? :P
[13:05] <maxiaojun> many debian teams look zombie or half-zombie
[13:05] <tumbleweed> maxiaojun: but you can join them, if you want to help. teams almost always welcome any newcomer
[13:13] <maxiaojun> btw, is eglibc dead or I'm just to lucky to observe http://www.eglibc.org/ down?
[20:29] <melodie> hi
[20:31] <achernya> Hello. Can I help you?
[20:39] <melodie> hi achernya nice of you. I was looking if I could see seb128 but he does not seem to be here now
[20:40] <melodie> here it says he was the last to work on the package: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/l/lightdm/lightdm_1.2.3-0ubuntu2.3/changelog
[20:40] <melodie> and I meet with an issue with the latest lightdm version : however I'm not sure only lightdm is concerned, there is libgobject which goes along
[20:42] <melodie> I meant liblightdm-gobject-1-0
[21:52] <melodie> is the Ubuntu project going to use systemd instead of upstart?
[21:54] <tumbleweed> unlikely
[21:56] <melodie> how come I've seen packages containing the "systemd" chain character, in the installed packages?
[21:57] <tumbleweed> I don't quite understand that, but I assume you're seeing some of the things that we do use, from the systemd source
[21:59] <melodie> I am in a wonder about it, also because the gui application for configuring the services in Ubuntu has been broken and left as is in Ubuntu since several years now. :[
[21:59] <melodie> I am looking forward to finding a way to point to some threads which source this statement
[23:33] <melodie> gn