[00:02] * penguin42 is just trying to see if he could track the position of the citys trams some of which now have wifi - would be fun [00:02] :D [00:08] although I suspect I'm not close enough to the tracks and only a few of the trams have the wifi so far [00:14] penguin42: surprising they don't have live data :> [00:16] daftykins: [00:17] hmm? [00:17] offer to set them up a system :D [00:17] daftykins: they've been trying to get a new 'Tram management system' going for many years, have taken the provider to court, and this is supposed to do many things including live data; but they haven't got it to work on the oldest parts of the system yet [00:21] daftykins: http://openlettertometrolink.blogspot.co.uk/ (warning a couple of bits of swearing) [00:22] :D [00:23] ah manchester trams [00:24] omg Gordon Burns! [00:26] i never thought they were too bad, just too expensive [00:27] ali1234: They're not bad most of the time, but they do have periods where they get bad, and they're completely useless when something minor breaks in some far part of the system it just screws the whole thing up [00:27] last time i used it there was only 3 lines [00:27] and really only two [00:28] eccles, altrincham, or bury [00:28] ali1234: It's gained a few more now [00:29] what is "oldham mumps" [00:29] it sounds like a disease [00:29] ali1234: There is Rochdale-oldham to Manchester, Didsbury to Manchester and Ashton to Manchester [00:29] ali1234: Oldham mumps is a station in Oldham, at least one theory is it was named (or the original railway station/area) was named after a mumps output [00:30] break [00:30] why would you name a station after that?? [00:31] ah, wikipedia says 'The name of the station is taken from its situation within the Mumps area of Oldham, which itself probably derived from the archaic word "mumper", slang for a beggar' === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [00:31] that's not much better :/ [00:32] ali1234: The choice of good things to pick in Oldham is pretty limited [00:32] when are they going to build the line through fallowfield and victoria park? [00:34] hmm I'm not sure I've heard of that [00:34] http://www.metrolink.co.uk/futuremetrolink/Pages/airport-line.aspx is the only sother southern line I know [00:35] it's on this picture titles "metrolink 2030" [00:35] http://www.projectmapping.co.uk/Reviews/Resources/Future%20Metrolink%202030.gif [00:38] huh not seen some of those [00:39] ali1234: Some of them are really odd, like the airport one they're building at the moment; the Airport already has a regular train link and the tram line they're doing goes a biarrely long route [00:39] well, there's not point following the existing route [00:40] ali1234: Well the original Bury/Altrincham lines were conversions of train routes [00:40] it's weird to me that manchester has trains too [00:40] but you never see stations [00:40] yeh, unlike Liverpool where it's prettymuch their own undeground [00:40] unless you go to levenshulme [00:40] ali1234: never see? [00:40] i mean train stations, not tram stops [00:41] obviosly you see piccadilly and oxford road [00:41] but i mean the local stations [00:41] hmm, they are around just not particularly dense, and they're normally because they're on a route to somewhere else [00:42] i used to get the train from levenshulme to town a lot [00:42] it was much cheaper than the tram [00:42] well except there wasn't a tram from levenshulme so it's difficult to compare [00:43] well yeah [00:43] but it was like £2, and going 1 stop on the tram was like £3.60 [00:43] but this is why it's weird [00:44] there's busses, trains, and trams, and the only interchange is at piccadilly/oxford road/victoria [00:44] yeh, it's very variable - mine doesn't work out too badly; it works out ~150 for 3 months quarterly ticket [00:45] i never had enough money to buy more than a weekly pass [00:45] ali1234: There are some more minor interchanges, e.g. Deansgate train station is linked to a Metrolink station, similarly there are major bus stations next to the Picadilly Gardens and Shudehill stations [00:45] those are all within walking distance from the city centre though [00:45] yes [00:46] there are a few other hubs; like Bury and Altrincham have the tram/bus stations close together [00:46] yeah i used to live in altrincham too :) [00:46] but closer to navigation road [00:47] ali1234: But that's a weird one - that one is both a train and tram station? [00:47] yes but so is altrincham - and a bus depot too [01:12] https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hdwboctp8y5lknk/yIcvAOJERu [01:12] never made one before @_@ [01:48] daftykins: what is it? [01:49] a fried cheese sandwich? [01:49] i've never even heard of such a thing before... [01:49] but now i want one [01:49] for when the cheese isn't fatty enough [01:56] ^precisely [01:56] i'm skinny though so it's fine [01:57] interestingly i only heard of them recently [01:57] via reddit/imgur or something [01:57] and the instant I saw it, I wanted one [01:57] i guess it's like a cheese toasty, without the breville [01:58] yeah [01:58] withouy the nuclear hot filling, but close [02:06] :D [02:06] i can officially endorse them [06:34] morning [06:35] hiya [07:17] exit === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [09:05] Ceterum censeo, Project Hamster needs crowdfunding [09:05] and someone to maintain it [09:37] good morning everyone. [09:37] tanks [09:37] morning roht [09:37] morning [09:40] \o [09:40] morning MartijnVdS [10:30] Does steam tell you when you're playing a game which is beta? [10:30] well, tell your friends? [10:30] popey: I don't think so [10:31] can you see what I'm playing now for example? [10:31] popey: let me check [10:32] "in-game: godus" [10:32] so it does, interesting [10:52] popey - if you want to see what others see, click your piccy on bottom right [11:09] oh yeah and Harvest support would be great too. [11:20] * MartijnVdS reports a kernel bug [11:20] well, did an hour ago [11:21] what did it do? [11:21] penguin42: they forgot to enable L2TP v3 ("pseudowire") support [11:22] what's the bug number? [11:22] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1235914 [11:22] Ubuntu bug 1235914 in linux (Ubuntu) "Please enable L2TPv3 support and related modules" [Undecided,Confirmed] [11:23] MartijnVdS: Was it previously enabled or is it something new? [11:23] penguin42: I don't think it's been enabled before, it's been in the kernel since 2.6.35ish, but it wasn't mature then [11:24] penguin42: according to http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/howto/pseudowire [11:27] MartijnVdS: OK, I've just marked it triaged/low - you might want to try pinging someone in #ubuntu-kernel if nothing happens for a while [11:32] ok, thanks - it's not a release-critical issue for me.. but it'd be nice to have in the LTS :) [11:33] MartijnVdS: Hmm for the 14.03 you mean? [11:35] hmm I was about to set a 'target to milestone' for that LTS and now I'm confused, I seem to have options for 13.11,13.12,14.01,14.02,14.03 which seems new [11:37] MartijnVdS: The other thing is that if it's enabled in the kernel and you know how to try it then keep an eye on it to see whether any of the user space tools need an update [11:44] penguin42: "ip l2tp" complains atm, I think it would start working with the module enabled [11:45] MartijnVdS: Nod, it's just not too unusual to need to update that stuff [12:20] phew! realised I hadn't tried the 3g dongle since last kernel update. Plugged the (1/2) USB in socket wrong way round: instant "click" from psu & pwer kill :( [12:20] Waited 2mins - restarted - got away with it :) [12:20] [and dongle ok as well ;) [12:22] ...things not to do whilst awaiting the F1 replay on telly! [12:27] penguin42: we use monthly milestones for tracking [12:36] popey: do you have few minutes for a pm? just nosying around [12:38] popey: Ah ok, I was wondering if it was a sign of the mythical rolling release system [13:11] Myrtti: sure, anytime [15:01] hello [15:01] i am back again with my problems [15:02] i think i was talking to daftkins last time [15:02] ask away! [15:04] anyway i have a problem with file sharing between my mac g5 and my ubuntu laptop my mac always says that the connection has failed [15:04] I used this tutioral web.archive.org/web/20100719220308/http://blog.ibd.com/sysadmin/bonjour-avahi-netatalk-to-share-files-files-between-ubuntu-10-4-mac-os-x/ [15:05] i am using ubuntu 12.04 LTS [15:07] can anyone help [15:07] ah yes - did you end up connecting the ubuntu PC to the router without your phone tethered? [15:08] yep but it still does not work [15:09] with that done, it could be handy to pastebin the output of "ifconfig -a" and "netstat -tuln" again [15:09] biab shower time [15:09] (macs still use netatalk - wow....) [15:10] ok but do u want me to connect to my router and do it [15:11] yes or no [15:12] arc__: Can the mac ping the ubuntu box? [15:13] penguin42: the other day i was weirded out by his SSH listening on IPv6 only, as 'netstat -tuln' reported only tcp6 :22 - i didn't know if this was what was causing issues [15:13] anywho shower bbl :> [15:13] i haven't tryied but my ubuntu laptop can ping the mac but i can't access my mac apache web server [15:14] i will turn my g5 (mac) on noe [15:14] it has lift off (my g5 is on) [15:14] arc__: Yeh I'd check they can ping each other (by name) and if it can't access your macs apache that's a bit odd, I'd probably figure that out before doing anything more comple [15:14] x [15:16] ok but also is there a way to keep my usb mobile tether internet connected whille my ehernet is connected [15:17] cuz i all ways use mobile internet (unlimited data :) [15:17] I'd expect that to 'just' work - just be careful with the IP address range each network uses [15:18] ok but how can i use 2 at the same time [15:19] hang on, which ubuntu you using - standard ubuntu - 13.04? [15:19] normal 12.04 LTS on my laptop [15:20] ah ok [15:20] let me just boot my 12.04 vm [15:20] kk [15:21] I've not done USB tether, but I guess that just shows as another connection in network manager? [15:22] yea it dies [15:22] i mean does [15:23] arc__: How is your ethernet done - is it just a switch wired between a few machines or do you have a router doing DHCP? [15:24] no internet but connected to 1 or sometimes 2 other machines [15:24] my mac can't ping my router [15:24] or even access it [15:25] wii reboot my mac ang try again [15:25] rebooting now [15:26] (on my G5) [15:29] but what do you mean by 'router' - where is the router in this? [15:31] i want the "router" so i connect computers to my network to share and backup family files on a cut off network and to share files from my mobile via wifi [15:32] hmm ok, but I think you need to draw a diagram of how this thing is wired - I don't quite get it [15:33] arc__: a question to ask is think of your ubuntu box, it's tethered via usb, but also wired to a router, say it wants to connect out to google how does it know whether to go via the router or via the usb [15:34] i figured his setup was tripping over default routes yeah [15:34] yea that is one of my problems i want the usb internet but still connect to my router is there a way to do this propely [15:35] arc__: Right, so when do you want stuff to go via the router? [15:35] arc__: You can do this, the challenge is to start by writing down what rules you want - when do you want stuff to go where [15:35] my file shares [15:35] kk [15:35] arc__: Right but you said about your wifi - when does that happen? [15:36] it is a idea that i want to implement to add to the file shareing but lets ignore that for now [15:37] arc__: OK, well for filesharing you don't need the router at all [15:37] so how do i do it then [15:37] arc__: Just plug the computers together using a dumb switch [15:37] a what ? [15:38] just a normal ethernet switch [15:39] ok so can i make one do i buy one [15:40] arc__: If you have a router, you can probably also do it with that if you're more careful [15:40] kk so lets do this [15:41] arc__: First off, take your ubuntu box, just plug in the usb tether and then figure out what IP address it thinks it has ; so with just the usb tether plugged in in a terminal do ifconfig -a and look for an inet addr: line - what does it say [15:41] so my mac is log in to my router [15:41] arc__: e.g. I've got an eth0 that says inet addr:192.168.66.33 [15:42] on usb0 is says inet addr:192.168.42.128 [15:42] ok, good write that down and also keep a note of the bcast and mask stuff on that line [15:43] done [15:43] afk for a sec [15:43] now, unplug the usb tether and just plug in your ether and do the same trick [15:44] ok i am back [15:45] ok i will do that but it will disconnect my from the internet so i will use another name untill it pings me out i will use X98Hacker [15:45] kk see u in a sec [15:47] kk i am back [15:48] ok [15:48] it says this on eth0 inet addr:192.168.1.2 Bcast:192.168.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 [15:49] X98Hacker: OK, good - so that means that your usb is using 192.168.42.x and your router is handing out 192.168.1.x which is good because they don't clash [15:49] yay :) [15:49] X98Hacker: Now, if you do route -n what does the default line say ? [15:50] is says this on the first line 0.0.0.0 192.168.42.129 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 usb0 [15:50] ok [15:50] X98Hacker: So that says go to your usb tether (192.168.42.129) for anything it doesn't know [15:51] X98Hacker: The trick is to keep that even when your wired is plugged in [15:51] ok so how do we do that then [15:51] X98Hacker: So I bet if you just have your wired plugged in ithat changes to something like 0.0.0.0 192.168.1.1 ...... eth0 ? [15:52] i think it would [15:52] wait would it not "192.168.1.2" [15:53] X98Hacker: I don't think so, I think your router has the IP 192.168.1.1 and your ubuntu box has 192.168.1.1 [15:53] wait let me paste.ubuntu something [15:54] http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201217/ here this is on just connected to the router [15:55] right [15:55] it say 192.168.1.2 [15:55] X98Hacker: So that machines your ubuntu has the address 192.168.1.2 - the router has a different address, every machine on a network has a different address including the router [15:55] X98Hacker: Go on, pastebin the output of route -n on the wired network [15:56] ok then i will rejoin as arc__ again then see ya [15:57] ok i am back pasteing it know [15:58] here it is http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201232/ [15:58] right [15:59] arc__: So that says if it doesn't know where else to go, connect to the router at 192.168.1.1 [15:59] arc__: But for everything in 192.168.1.x it just goes direct (that's the last line) [15:59] kk so that means [16:00] arc__: The way IP works is that whenever it tries to connect somewhere it looks down the list and goes 'WHich one of these rules matches the address I'm going to' (ish) [16:00] arc__: So what you need to do is stop it putting in that default line on wired [16:00] arc__: So do network manager-edit connections-wired [16:00] kk [16:01] so do i type in this to terminal network manager-edit connections-wired [16:01] arc__: Then select your wired connetion and do edit and go to IPv4 settings, change it from Automatic (DHCP) to Automatic DHCP (address only) [16:02] arc__: Now if you do that, save it, and then unplug and replug the wired you should find the ifconfig is the same but the route -n doesn't have the default line [16:02] wait [16:02] so do i type in this to terminal network manager-edit connections-wired [16:02] no, you can do it from the GUI [16:03] arc__: Click on the network icon on the panel and there is an 'edit connections' option [16:03] cool i was thinking that sorry :) [16:07] sorry i did it to my usb internet [16:08] yeh you see that would be a bad idea [16:08] so i do it to auto eth0 [16:08] nod [16:08] kk do it [16:08] i mean done it [16:08] X98Hacker: Because you want your ubuntu box to use the address given (by dhcp by the router) but you don't want it to bother using any other info like the route the router gives out [16:09] now if i plug my eth0 in it will work right i am doing it now [16:10] if it does then look at the ifconfig and route -n output [16:15] pengiun42 [16:15] hey [16:16] that did not work did you see this message [16:16] pluged in can you see this [16:16] I can see you now [16:16] ok pasteing now [16:16] X98Hacker: So the question is with it plugged in what did the ifconfig -a and route -n look like [16:17] have a look for your self http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201313/ [16:17] hmm, it's still set the default interface to the router [16:18] perhaps it didn't flush from before [16:18] kk [16:18] let me just try it in my VM [16:18] ok [16:20] hmph yes it ignores it - hmm [16:20] let me try something [16:20] wait don't read the top bit read after need to send [16:21] why do you just team viewer me [16:21] ok, got it [16:21] cool [16:21] X98Hacker: On the edit connections, under IPv4 setting ther eis a box 'Routes' click it [16:22] X98Hacker: And then tick the two boxes 'ignore automatically obtained routes' and 'use this connection only for reosurces on its network' [16:23] (at least you need the Use this connection.... one I don't know if you also need the top one, I don't see why ticking the top one doesn't also do the bottom) [16:23] ok i have cilck it and pressed ok [16:23] then click save, and disconnect/reconnect the wired [16:23] ok crossed fingers [16:24] * penguin42 undoes that before it confuses the heck out of him [16:26] ok pengin [16:26] can u see this [16:26] kk [16:26] i said ok penguin did u see it i had to unplug the eth0 [16:26] nod [16:27] I saw the ok pengin [16:27] after that what did u see [16:27] can u see this [16:27] then kk [16:28] ok so it did work but on x-chat-gnome it says +22.5 lag for some reson i will reconect my eth0 then [16:30] pengiun say testing [16:30] testing! [16:30] that did not work [16:31] ok, so what does your route/ifconfig look like in that state? [16:31] when i connected mt eht0 i could not connect to google.com [16:32] here u go http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201369/ [16:32] just to let u know i am only on usb0 i disconnected my eth0 [16:32] ok, so that looks right though [16:33] with both plugged in can you ping google by ip - e.g. ping 8.8.8.8 [16:33] but i can't connect to google.com [16:33] right but try to see if IP works first [16:34] kk going in again [16:37] it says operation not permited [16:37] diconnected also when eth0 is connected my mobile say there is no out going or in going connection [16:37] diconnected also when eth0 is connected my mobile say there is no out going or in going connection [16:37] I don't really get that since I can see the ifconfig showing the usb connected and the eth connected? [16:38] it says operation not permited [16:38] to do what? [16:39] to do ping 8.8.8.8 [16:39] diconnected also when eth0 is connected my mobile say there is no out going or in going connection [16:40] I don't see why it would say operation not permitted?! I get connect: Netowkr is unreachable but never not permitted [16:40] yea [16:40] maybe rdp me anfd [16:40] X98Hacker: You could try nmcli c status [16:41] team viewer me and have a look for your self [16:41] I've never used team viewer [16:41] ok [16:44] ok here it is http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201405/ [16:45] i pulled out the wire again to get back [16:45] to the internet [16:47] penguin have u read the paste yet [16:47] sorry [16:48] sorry for what [16:48] see that all looks good [16:48] but i cant get onto google ! [16:49] arc__: yeh, so start out with some more pings, can you ping 127.0.0.1 (i.e. localhost) or ping 192.168.1.2 ? [16:50] kk will plug in eht0 and try now [16:53] kk can ping 196.168.1.1 192.168.1.2 192.168.1.3 only [16:54] so my router my laptop(which i am using) and my mac g5 [16:54] i have pulled out my eth0 as well [16:54] form my laptop again [16:55] so what to do now penguin [16:55] I don't see why that wouldn't work from the route -n/ifconfig you show - I could understand if there was a DNS/name problem - but I don't understand why you can't ping by IP [16:56] confusing :( [16:57] arc__: Can you ping say 91.189.89.103 (one of the canonical webservers) [16:57] i will try [16:57] I'm going to make some food - back in about 30mins [16:58] wait asec [16:58] let me paste is [16:59] ok here it is http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201474/ [17:00] daftykins: have a look at this for me http://paste.ubuntu.com/6201474/ [17:01] that's weird [17:01] yea it is weired [17:02] i had to unplug mt eth0 to get on to the internet [17:04] i am going to connect my eth0 again to see what my router logs say [17:06] kk says nothing [17:07] daftykins: U have any good ideas [17:07] afk going for a shower [17:22] i am back [17:24] penguin42: would it be viable to hardcode /etc/network/interfaces with eth0 and let network manager handle the tether alone? [17:26] daftykins: penguin42 gone to eat [17:26] yeah he'll see it when he returns though [17:27] * penguin42 rematerialises [17:27] oh yea :) [17:27] i think it'd be wise not to do anything for now as it might undo what he's already had you do [17:27] ah there you go (: [17:28] daftykins: Yeh I think you can do some fixed in interfaces but am not sure - the thing which gets me is the 'operation not permitted' that's very odd [17:28] yep i don't have a clue what'd cause that [17:28] unless a parameter were set wrong [17:29] my router is a netgear wgu624 [17:29] daftykins: The only time I've seen ping give an operation not permitted is to send a broadcast ping, but I don't see how that address could be interepreted as a broadcast [17:30] arc__: OK, here's an idea, go into network settings, select the ethernet connection and select ipv4 settings and untick the connect automatically, and set the method to 'Disabled' [17:30] arc__: Then see if you can plug in the ether without it all blowing up [17:31] hi [17:32] ok pluged in and nothing has pop up [17:32] arc__: Good [17:32] szymon_g: greetings [17:32] arc__: Now issue the following magic ifconfig eth0 192.168.1.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 [17:32] arc__: then ifconfig eth0 up [17:32] i've installed ubuntu 13.10 beta 2, how can i remove hud (the one that is activated with the "alt" button) and put menu-bars back inside the windows (and not on the top panel)? [17:33] ok done [17:34] arc__: Now, can you ping 192.168.1.1 ? [17:34] yes i can :) [17:34] Boffer are selling job lots of Nexus 7 2013 32GB, 2 for £277.98 (ex-vat) comes to £170 each with VAT and everything, killer deal baring in mind they are £240 from google [17:34] me and my friend just split the cost and bought 2 [17:34] arc__: OK, great [17:35] arc__: Now, what you could try doing is going back to network settings, and setting it to connect automatically and connect automatically, then hit the add button and add the 192.168.1.2 there - then it will do it automatically for you [17:35] arc__: There is a gotcha though [17:36] szymon_g: have you tried in #ubuntu+1 ? [17:36] arc__: since your computer isn't dhcp'ing any more your router won't know it's using 192.168.1.2 and it might give 192.168.1.2 to one of your other machines, so either you set all your wired machines manually, or you might be able to change the router config to have some that it doesn't hand out automatically [17:37] what methood [17:37] arc__: So that depends on the GUI in the router [17:38] so i have clicked on connect auto now what [17:38] i can't hit the add button [17:38] you set it to 'Manual' [17:39] arc__: Connect automatically, Method: Manual [17:39] ok i hit add and typed 192.168.1.1 but there are 2 boxes un filled [17:41] arc__: Netmask is 255.255.255.0 leave the gateway empty [17:42] i clicked save and now say in a pop up connected [17:43] damm same result as last time i hit disconnect on the auto eth0 [17:44] arc__: OK, in that case sod it, set it back to manual and that pair of ifconfig commands will do it, or you can manually set those in /etc/network/interfaces [17:44] now what [17:44] arc__: BUT remember what I say about configuring your router [17:45] ok but what should i cong it to do [17:46] kk can login to my router [17:46] arc__: It will have a section on DHCP, you can either turn it's dhcp off (so then you'll have to give each of your computers an address manually) or you can see the range of IPs it gives, maybe it gives 192.168.1.2-192.168.1.127 say, then you can give your ubuntu PC something between 192.168.1.127-192.168.1.254 [17:47] arc__: If you don't then your router might give 192.168.1.2 to your mac or something else at some random time [17:48] it says use router as dhcp and it is cheacked [17:49] arc__: OK, so you could turn that off, but then you'll need to manually configure all your machines - or you can look if it has other DHCP options on there - some detail [17:49] ok add my laptop or device to the adress table as 192.168.1.2 [17:50] reservation table [17:50] yeh that might do it [17:50] ok next step [17:51] DHCP leases can be pretty unreliable [17:51] but ah well [17:51] lol :) [17:52] are we at the file shareing bit yet [17:53] arc__: Haha, well, can you ping the mac? [17:53] i will switch it on now [17:55] yea i can ping it [17:55] good [17:55]