[10:46] <joe18> how do i install ubuntu on my nexus 7? the files the installer depends on are no longer where the wiki says they are
[10:48] <davmor2> joe18: Ubuntu touch for the n7 or the full desktop?
[10:48] <joe18> full desktop
[10:51] <davmor2> joe18: it's not worked on now as far as I know ogra_ might be able to help you more
[10:52] <joe18> wasnt unity supposed to be the one interface for all the devices? what happened to that? why are there 2 interfaces for only one android tablet
[10:55] <davmor2> joe18: unity8 is the converged code which is the same code doing the same thing with different perspectives based on screen size.  Unity8 is Ubuntu Touch
[10:56] <joe18> ooohhhhh
[10:57] <davmor2> joe18: in which case the install you want is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
[10:58] <joe18> can i make ubuntu touch not so phone friendly?
[10:59] <joe18> like ubnutu-(notsomuch)-touch?
[11:00] <infinity> Other than the lack of GSM radios, there's not much difference between a tablet and phone, really...
[11:00] <infinity> Have iOS and Android not proven this quite well already?
[11:01] <davmor2> joe18: How do you mean.  There is no real need to have something more like the desktop version as it just takes up space on the screen that you need.  Is there something specific you need it to  do that it can't?
[11:03] <joe18> i want ubuntu desktop on my nexus 7. call me crazy. i dont really like the ubuntu touch interface
[11:07] <joe18> is ubuntu touch still based on cm10?
[11:07] <ogra_> define "based on"
[11:09] <joe18> chroot, kernel, no x11 ?
[11:09] <ogra_> it uses the cm10 kernel, and an ~40M big lxc container where we run a few android daemons to initialize the HW (like the proprietary modem driver and daemon etc)... the reas is a plain straight ubuntu
[11:09] <ogra_> *rest
[11:10] <ogra_> and indeed, since the new unity is designed for Mir, no X
[11:11] <joe18> how much of a plain straight ubuntu? if i wanted too could i apt-get install kubuntu?
[11:12] <ogra_> it wouldnt run, but indeed you can apt-get install it (after making the OS writable)
[11:12] <ogra_> (no X ...)
[11:14] <joe18> can i install X?
[11:14] <joe18> why isnt OS writable?
[11:15] <ogra_> because you dont need that on a phone ... apps dont get installed in the OS but in a user specific space (using click packages injstead of debs)
[11:17] <joe18> does not mobile unity work?
[11:17] <ogra_> additionally ubuntu touch uses image based updates, that requires that certain parts of the fs do not change
[11:17] <ogra_> (else you wouldnbt be able to provide image diffs OTA and people would have to download a full image every time)
[11:21] <joe18> so no kubuntu also means no X11 apps?
[11:21] <joe18> does?
[11:21] <joe18> *
[11:22] <ogra_> right
[11:48] <Rjs> I've been toying in my mind with the idea of using the ubuntu-nexus7 kernel with e.g. standard debian userland to provide a fully-free code base - it seems that it could be feasible (if you don't need gps or 3d acceleration, which require closed-source binaries, and ignore the non-freeness of the boot loader)
[11:48] <Rjs> but I haven't had any time to try it out... (especially since I heard that there were difficulties bootstrapping a new filesystem etc. using the bootloader, and there might be complex userland changes that the ubuntu desktop had which I don't know about)
[11:49] <ogra_> not many ...
[11:50] <ogra_> ubuntu-defaults-nexus7 should have all modifications
[11:53] <Rjs> I remember from my testing that the fbdev X11 display driver seemed to work ok (if 3D acceleration isn't needed - I think it was quite a bit faster than the openmoko gta02, for example), and I later heard about someone starting to write a driver called "opentegra", which could be even better (I don't know if anything came of it, haven't looked)
[11:54] <ogra_> it should be sufficient if you dont need any GLES stuff
[11:54] <kulve> opentegra might need newer kernel
[11:55] <ogra_> you might lose the most of one CPU core to it worst case
[11:55] <ogra_> fbdev should work on all kernels that have a framebuffer device
[11:56] <ogra_> the only issue is that if you want *any* kind of usable video playback you will need the binary driver and the codecs
[11:56] <ogra_> if you can live without that fbdev is just fine
[11:58] <Rjs> ok, so it doesn't sound too difficult after all... (I was actually surprised that so many of the sensors etc. in the nexus7 worked without closed-source software; I think GPS and of course 3d acceleration were the primary exceptions)
[12:03] <Rjs> maybe the easiest way to install it would be to make a filesystem image (sans kernel) using qemu-arm, configuring it to use fbdev etc. (and to manage without a keyboard), and then try to use the adb stuff from the bootloader to get the kernel and this filesystem image or its contents onto the nexus7 (that's what I think I'd try first, if I had the time...)
[12:04] <ogra_> why manage without a keyboard ?
[12:04] <ogra_> if you use the right kernel config you will have a console and should be ablet to attach a keyboard via OTG cable
[12:06] <Rjs> hmm yes, good idea, that would probably be much easier than trying to do everything with just the touchscreen
[12:10] <kulve> Rjs: as said, it shouldn't be a problem to get X.Org running with open source only. But it would be slow and crippled. So why would you like to do it? :)
[12:29] <Rjs> kulve: simply because I don't like to use non-free software :) (and I'm used to using an openmoko gta02, which is much slower but still ok for me - the main problem I have with it is the physically small display)
[12:31] <Rjs> (and from a more pragmatic point of view, I'm not sure if the stuck-button bug was ever fixed in the non-free world - I didn't really follow it closely, but I think I read that the proprietary driver provided by nvidia required an X.org that was too old to have the bugfix, so at least some backporting would be required)
[12:32] <kulve> luckily on tegra nvidia provides drivers for multiple X.Org versions, up to 14
[12:32] <kulve> which I think is used in Saucy
[12:32] <kulve> I meant the video ABI versions..
[12:41] <Rjs> ok, good to know (I haven't really followed the proprietary drivers at all)
[12:43] <kulve> I've been playing with them a bit nexus 7 and Ouya
[15:44] <c10ud> hi.. this is embarassing but: I need to install hamachi in my NATTY (11.04) armel box and I just found out that mirrors are gone..is there any backup mirror somewhere?
[15:44] <c10ud> (I need it for damn lsb deps)
[15:48] <c10ud> wow, maybe found it (!) http://160.26.2.181/
[15:50] <rbasak> c10ud: http://askubuntu.com/a/91821/7808
[15:51] <c10ud> rbasak, thanks but that doesn't seem to include the "ports" pool
[15:51] <c10ud> no wait it does
[15:51] <c10ud> thanks then! :D
[15:51] <rbasak> Good point I didn't think of that.
[15:52] <rbasak> If it does then you're in luck :)
[15:52] <c10ud> I tried searching for specific armel packages and google didn't bring this up, now I'll try it but I see a Contents-armel file so I think it should work!
[15:52]  * c10ud trying
[15:53] <rbasak> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/natty/main/binary-armel/Release exists
[15:54] <rbasak> So the line "deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu natty" should just work I guess. No ubuntu-ports any more then.
[16:00] <c10ud> this imx53 is slow, probably the SDcard is quite fucked up.. (and it's running armel instead of armhf anyway..) but it definitely seems to be working :)
[16:01] <c10ud> thanks again rbasak