[05:48] <Noskcaj> Why does blueman-applet use 30mb of RAM even though it's never been used in any way and clicking the applet shows an empty menu?
[05:48] <Noskcaj> I know lightness isn't our main focus, but that is a bit overkill
[05:56] <Noskcaj> update manager is even worse, using 100mb while waiting for apt to exit, 200 when running apt-get update
[05:56] <Noskcaj> hey smartboyhw 
[05:57] <ochosi> Noskcaj: well you can look for light alternatives...
[05:57] <ochosi> the functionality of those two apps is kinda needed
[05:57] <ochosi> iirc, a bluetooth-manager for xfce was in the works
[05:57] <ochosi> i wanted to help with the UI at the time, but then was too busy with other stuff
[05:58] <ochosi> but you should find info on it in the archives of the xfce4-dev mailinglist
[05:58] <Noskcaj> ochosi, update manager can't be replaced, but that's a lot of memory. blueman: i'll see what else there is and what happened to the xfce one
[06:10] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, hey
[06:57] <Noskcaj> ochosi, Was this the xfce bluetooth thing
[06:57] <Noskcaj> https://github.com/ncopa/xfce-bluetooth
[06:57] <ochosi> yup
[06:58] <Unit193> Have to like the TODO: "complete this todo list..."
[07:03] <ochosi> indeed
[07:05] <Noskcaj> I hope someone finishes it, since blueman is dead upstream
[09:14] <bluesabre> he was making good progress on it (the bluetooth-manager)
[10:27] <brainwash> ochosi: bug 1236271
[10:28] <ochosi> brainwash: thanks, commented
[10:28] <brainwash> I did not add any of the upstream reports, because they address KDE stuff and somehow lock irrelevant
[10:28] <brainwash> look
[10:30] <brainwash> this lp report is like "create and forget about it" :D
[10:32] <ochosi> hehe
[10:32] <brainwash> and the network manager not waking up after suspend appears to be systemd/logind related, I was not able to suspend another time after the bug occurred ->Operation already in Progress
[10:33] <ochosi> hm, so the state really doesnt get reset properly
[10:33] <brainwash> so my system was stuck in the suspend state while being awake
[10:33] <ochosi> well that's the bummer with ubuntu, as poettering pointed out they decided to use a stripped down systemd variant so there's not even upstream support
[10:34] <brainwash> yes, it's basically only logind I think
[10:34] <ochosi> not sure that is really a good idea, but i guess they *really* want to keep upstart around
[10:34] <ochosi> yup
[10:34] <brainwash> to replace consolekit
[10:36] <brainwash> oh https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708570
[10:36] <brainwash> I did test xfwm4 with and without compositing enabled
[10:38] <ochosi> but that bug seems to be different, cause i can't confirm: envvar not set: erratic scrolling with laptop touchpad
[10:39] <brainwash> however, still somewhat related
[10:40] <brainwash> gtk+3.8
[11:23] <elfy> brainwash ochosi - so what's an 'overlay scrollbars' and how does one activate it to see this bug
[11:25] <knome> micahg, so, what does your schedule for this week look like?
[11:25] <knome> and with that, i got to run
[11:25] <knome> see you ->
[11:26] <brainwash> elfy: package "overlay-scrollbar"
[11:27] <brainwash> it should activate itself once it's installed
[11:27] <elfy> so we don't have that installed by default then
[11:27] <brainwash> unity does
[11:27] <brainwash> it's a low priority bug anyway
[11:27] <elfy> yea - unity might - I was just wondering what it's got to do with us is all I guess 
[11:28] <brainwash> some people install the default ubuntu and later xubuntu/xfce side by side
[11:28] <brainwash> some might even install the package manually
[11:29] <elfy> indeed they do - but if we use that as a yardstick there are thousands of bugs we need to worry about :)
[11:29] <elfy> I'm just looking at it from my perspective here of course :)
[11:30] <brainwash> yes, nobody is forcing you to write a patch for xfwm4 :P
[11:30] <elfy> :)
[11:30] <elfy> they can try lol 
[11:30] <brainwash> an easy workaround does exist, so just forget about that bug^^
[11:31] <elfy> as qa lead I'm just checking up that things that get mentioned are things I need to think about or if they are things I can forget about 
[11:33] <brainwash> elfy: this one needs some attention bug 1232027 (I somehow get the feeling, that xubuntu final will ship without pm-utils)
[11:34] <brainwash> it's still required I guess, to run various hooks
[11:34]  * elfy wouldn't know - that would be voodoo 
[12:51] <brainwash> ochosi: testing fedora 20 currently and xfce4-terminal does crash too when I try to open the encoding gtk menu, so it's time for an upstream bug report
[13:13] <brainwash> ochosi: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/trash7.php
[14:43] <skellat> Drawing attention to LP Bug #1029426 and its last comment
[14:59] <brainwash> Am I the only one who sees Droid Sans Bold listed twice in the font selection dialog?
[14:59] <elfy> nope
[16:43] <brainwash> ochosi: remember the missing restart option? the policy for multi sessions differed... and it also differs for suspend and hibernate
[16:44] <brainwash> if they change it upstream, it would reveal the hibernate option (lightdm greeter and xfce4 session menu)
[16:45] <brainwash> I would like this change to be backported (if it gets accepted), but Canonical wouldn't like it I guess :D
[19:05] <ochosi> brainwash: re:trash icon, i know and basically it's a missing size of the icon, that's all. i can draw it when i have time
[19:05] <ochosi> i'm not a huge fan of that trash icon though, so...
[19:07] <ochosi> and i'm pretty sure they won't like to enable hibernation, although as long as it only affects xubuntu, it could be ok
[19:08] <ochosi> not sure though *we* want that. we haven't discussed that at all and within the canonical team there at least was a discussion
[19:09] <skellat> ochosi: Wasn't it a matter of safety in terms of disabling hibernation?  If I recall correctly, systems weren't successfully coming out of hibernation at the time the disabling was done.
[19:10] <ochosi> yeah, i vaguely remember something like that
[19:10] <ochosi> so without an informed discussion about this, i wouldn't feel good about enabling that by default again
[19:11] <elfy> same here - for the vague memory, I'd also want a discussion 
[19:16] <brainwash> would changing the logind policy allow the user to hibernate?
[19:17] <brainwash> it's somewhat a systemd design flaw
[19:18] <brainwash> different policies for restart and shutdown (fixed), same for suspend and hibernate
[19:19] <brainwash> if you are allowed to suspend the system while multiple users are logged in, why is hibernation disabled for the same scenario?
[19:23] <brainwash> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70237
[19:30] <pleia2> haz interview http://frostbitemedia.org/node/279
[19:36] <brainwash> ochosi: due to the current policy it should be possible to hibernate via menu before the first login (lightdm greeter), because this is the only time logind reports that only one session is running and the active user is allowed to hibernate
[19:37] <brainwash> (without changing any settings)
[19:37] <ochosi> i thought ubuntu disabled hibernation
[19:39] <brainwash> how?
[19:40] <ochosi> well i wouldn't know, i only heard it
[19:40] <ochosi> i never use hibernation anyway
[19:40] <ochosi> laptop boots far too fast
[19:41] <brainwash> I'll request to include that patch.. the change to the restart policy got accepted too :)
[19:42] <ochosi> have you tested whether the menuitem is there and whether it works after bootup?
[19:43] <brainwash> changing the policy reveals the menu entry (greeter and xfce logout dialog)
[19:44] <brainwash> I'll revert it to check if it's there after bootup
[19:44] <ochosi> ok
[19:44] <brainwash> can't remember for sure
[19:50] <elfy> pleia2: nice one :)
[19:51] <pleia2> elfy: thanks :)
[19:51]  * elfy was pleased to hear the call for testers :D
[19:51] <elfy> unsurprisingly ... 
[19:53] <pleia2> testers++
[19:53] <elfy> :)
[19:53] <elfy> poor old qa lead ends up doing the tests himself apparently :)
[19:54] <elfy> see - I even listened to it 
[20:56] <brainwash> ochosi: guess I was wrong, hibernation gets disabled somehow.. somewhere.. and changing the logind policy to make sense would enable hibernation despite the initial deactivation (still allowed with root privileges)
[20:59] <brainwash> back to a more interesting topic, the low res trash icon :)
[20:59] <ochosi> hehe
[20:59] <ochosi> well you can even port the icon to a larger size yourself if you're *really* annoyed by it ;)
[21:00] <brainwash> it's just a low res icon in a useless tooltip
[21:00] <ochosi> (or do something else and ask me to do that in return)
[21:00] <ochosi> well, you've been going on about it for a while though :)
[21:00] <brainwash> if you want to achieve perfection... :P
[21:01] <ochosi> i always do!
[21:01] <ochosi> at least with certain things, but with getting sharp icons i usually do
[21:02] <brainwash> are you even responsible for this particular icon? or the elementary team?
[21:02] <brainwash> or are you a member of the elementary team? :D
[21:02] <ochosi> well, depends on your perspective
[21:03] <ochosi> i contribute to the elementary icons
[21:04] <ochosi> but they have a different target audience
[21:04] <ochosi> while elementary-xfce is (despite its name) usable in all kinds of DEs, elementary is only usable in eOS
[21:04] <ochosi> there are tons of icons and symlinks missing because they dropped it
[21:04] <ochosi> (imo a false sense of cleanliness)
[21:06] <brainwash> ok, and it should be already too late to change icons at this point of the dev cycle
[21:06] <ochosi> well, depends
[21:06] <ochosi> on the gravity of the bug
[21:07] <ochosi> but there's a daily PPA for your viewing pleasure
[21:07] <brainwash> it's the trash bin!
[21:07] <brainwash> :)
[21:07] <ochosi> i guess you meant to say: "it's the trash-bin, stupid!"
[21:10] <brainwash> maybe I should stop looking for bugs, maybe next time I'll complain about wrong colored pixel =S
[21:10] <brainwash> almost every bug seems to be fixed now
[21:10] <ochosi> actually you've really helped a lot fix quite critical and annoying bugs this cycle
[21:10] <ochosi> a tip of the hat goes to brainwash 
[21:11] <brainwash> thanks :)
[21:11] <ochosi> it's well earned
[21:11] <ochosi> i do hope you stick around, testing is really important and we usually don't have enough people
[21:11] <ochosi> and more eyes simply see more
[21:12] <ochosi> as ppl tend to use their pcs for different stuff
[21:12] <brainwash> I'll improve my coding and debugging skills and even try to contribute to different software projects
[21:14] <ochosi> sweet
[21:14] <ochosi> xfce upstream can also use a hand...
[21:15] <Noskcaj> ochosi, That requires quite a lot of C if i'm correct
[21:15] <ochosi> Noskcaj: yeah, it's basically all C and gtk
[21:15] <ochosi> but there is low-hanging fruit still
[21:15] <ochosi> depends on what you wanna implement
[21:16] <Noskcaj> If there's any python i'd try to help, but i can't. 
[21:16] <brainwash> C is easy to learn
[21:16] <brainwash> hard to master I guess
[21:17] <Noskcaj> brainwash, I barely understand python, i doubt C is "easy". Also, is xfce C or  C++?
[21:17] <brainwash> normal C
[21:17] <ochosi> yeah, whisker-menu is one of the few xfce things i know that is c++
[21:18] <Noskcaj> I'll look into learning it, maybe in the summer holidays
[21:18] <ochosi> and it's not part of the core, so..
[21:18] <Noskcaj> were we going to try and package whiskermenu?
[21:18] <brainwash> I'm mainly familiar with java and clojure
[21:18] <ochosi> Noskcaj: it would be good to get it in the archives
[21:18] <ochosi> i think so far it's only in PPAs
[21:19] <Noskcaj> ochosi, It's as simple as ask mr_pouit to add it to pkg-xfce. One of the mint devs had it on debian mentors for months but it got ignored
[21:19] <Noskcaj> oops, i pinged him
[21:20] <Noskcaj> Well, i've got school now, bye everyone
[21:20] <ochosi> bye
[21:20] <brainwash> cya
[21:23] <ochosi> brainwash: what xfce project do you use enough or what would you pick to work on?
[21:25] <ochosi> wowza folks, the sync-to-vblank in xfwm4 really smoothes things out (this goes out to all the compton-fans)
[21:26] <Unit193> Not sure I'm a "fan" but it's used on one computer.
[21:40] <brainwash> ochosi: I'll start with the appfinder to learn the basic stuff, I rarely use it though
[21:57] <ochosi> brainwash: appfinder is nice, but somewhat feature-complete
[21:57] <ochosi> or do you have any special ideas for it?
[21:58] <brainwash> not yet, it's a nice "little" app to get started I think
[21:58] <ochosi> mm, tbh i've never looked at the code
[21:58] <ochosi> so i wouldn't know how "little" it is :)
[21:59] <brainwash> only did some debugging so far, so I'm not familiar how the app actually works and communicates with other components
[22:00] <brainwash> how the gui is created and so on
[22:00] <ochosi> mhm
[22:02] <Unit193> Annoying that xfrun somewhat lost the history feature when it merged with appfinder.
[22:03] <ochosi> it does show the history though
[22:03] <brainwash> it does
[22:03] <ochosi> and there's an item on the roadmap that says "improve that" iirc
[22:04] <brainwash> unless you remove .cache after every logout/shutdown -> ~/.cache/xfce4/xfce4-appfinder/history
[22:06] <Unit193> Yes, just not as usable(?) as before they merged.  Anywho, my brain isn't working well now.
[22:07] <ochosi> main diff seems to be that you have to wait a split-second for the history to pop up
[22:07] <ochosi> and you can't force it with arrow-down straight away
[22:26] <brainwash> just curious.. if xfpm is set to suspend the system on lid close, while logind is triggering the same action (by default according to the config file), will it suspend twice?
[23:02] <ochosi> brainwash: well that could be part of the problem of the networking not waking up, no?
[23:02] <ochosi> also, i've noticed that i shouldn't close my lid during shutdown
[23:03] <ochosi> as it stops the shutdown, goes to sleep, when i open the lid again it continues to shut down the system
[23:03] <ochosi> rather annoying actually
[23:03] <brainwash> ochosi: I haven't closed the lid for like a month or so
[23:03] <ochosi> i also don't do it that often
[23:04] <ochosi> mostly when shutting down or packing up
[23:04] <brainwash> there is a known issue with userspace suspending in kernel 3.11.whatever and systemd 207
[23:05] <brainwash> segfaulting
[23:05] <brainwash> mainly affecting the arch users
[23:06] <ochosi> well it does work
[23:06] <ochosi> it's just annoying that it intercepts shutdown
[23:08] <brainwash> I added systemd to the list of affected packages, but didn't comment yet.. and pitti marked systemd as invalid =S
[23:09] <brainwash> not easy to tell, what is actually going on... like who tells nm to change its state
[23:09] <brainwash> awake <-> sleep
[23:09] <brainwash> logind? upower?
[23:13] <ochosi> not sure
[23:36] <brainwash> ah, found something interesting while reading the upower changelog
[23:36] <brainwash> "* Add alternative systemd dependency instead of just hard-depending on pm-utils. With logind, upower defers suspend to logind instead of calling pm-*, this allows us to not install pm-utils with systemd.
[23:36] <brainwash> "
[23:36] <brainwash> that would explain, why pm-utils is missing in the xubuntu iso