=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte | ||
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away | ||
=== schwuk is now known as schwuk_away | ||
bigcalm | Good morning peeps :) | 08:14 |
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=== interpolite_ is now known as interpolite | ||
brobostigon | good morning everyone, | 08:22 |
Laney | xnox: royal mail? | 08:32 |
xnox | Laney: yeap. | 08:35 |
Laney | thinking about that | 08:35 |
Laney | how easy is it? | 08:35 |
czajkowski | aloha | 08:36 |
Laney | czzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzajkowski | 08:37 |
xnox | Laney: gov.uk website, web form, debit card, done. 3 minutes max. | 08:39 |
xnox | Laney: https://www.gov.uk/royalmailshares | 08:40 |
Laney | xnox: I felt obliged to read the huge prospectus | 08:43 |
Laney | and then it asked me about share dealers or something | 08:43 |
Laney | so got scared off | 08:43 |
xnox | Laney: if you are planning to invest under 10 000, just do it via gov.uk website (which is managed by a dedicated share dealer Royal Mail Share Dealings or some such) | 08:44 |
Laney | yeah | 08:44 |
Laney | I don't understand what that even means | 08:44 |
xnox | Laney: or if you have existing investments accounts with your bank / mortgage / pension provider / stocks ISA, you could place an order through your dealer. | 08:44 |
Laney | would it be better to get a stocks and shares ISA for this? | 08:45 |
xnox | Laney: it means that you get an email that you have shares, yet physical printed copies are stored elsewhere in your name. | 08:45 |
xnox | Laney: could be, but the set-up takes about 2 weeks usually. And not worth the fees for an individual investment. Makes sense to have stocks & shares ISA, if you are into tracking news and spreading funds and making your decisions. | 08:46 |
JamesTait | Good morning all! Happy Face Your Fears Day! :-D | 09:10 |
shauno | that doesn't sound very happy :/ | 09:14 |
JamesTait | shauno, I can't think of anything more positive. :) | 09:17 |
JamesTait | Well, I probably could if I tried. | 09:18 |
=== iahmad is now known as iahmad|afk | ||
=== Hornet- is now known as Hornet | ||
davmor2_ | Morning all | 10:01 |
=== davmor2_ is now known as davmor2 | ||
bigcalm | Morning davmor2 | 10:05 |
SuperMatt | oh man, I just jammed a new disk in my machine, ran btrfs device add and BLAMMO! I now one large disk instead of two of separate ones | 10:19 |
SuperMatt | <3 btrfs | 10:19 |
SuperMatt | I'm becoming more and more convinced to switch on my home PC | 10:19 |
=== schwukz is now known as schwukz_away | ||
xnox | SuperMatt: yes, now think about it, you no longer can unplug either of the hard-drivers. And if either of them fails you lose all your data. | 10:22 |
xnox | SuperMatt: thus you now have doubled your chances of loosing your data due to hardware failure. | 10:23 |
=== schwukz_away is now known as schwuk | ||
brobostigon | why not raid them? then no risk. | 10:24 |
SuperMatt | xnox: sure, but this isn't a production machine, this is just my work PC. I save all my important stuff to the network drive | 10:24 |
SuperMatt | and at home, I have other backup solutions | 10:25 |
xnox | brobostigon: doing raid 1, sure you can, but then no space gain either =( | 10:25 |
brobostigon | xnox: no space gain, bur safer, whichever is the priority. | 10:25 |
xnox | brobostigon: true, it's just e.g. there is no way at the moment to have two btrfs pools, one per drive. That way one would preserve data-locality and disaster locality. | 10:26 |
brobostigon | xnox: i see, fair point, | 10:27 |
xnox | brobostigon: e.g. if one drive has / and the other drive has /home, then with ext4, one hardware failure takes out only that part of data. With btrfs it always takes out all. | 10:27 |
xnox | =) | 10:27 |
* popey hugs btrfs | 10:29 | |
popey | don't listen to the horrible man | 10:29 |
popey | SuperMatt: what kernel you running? | 10:29 |
SuperMatt | 3.11.0-11-generic | 10:30 |
SuperMatt | I'm saucy, baby | 10:30 |
SuperMatt | I'm almost always on +1 | 10:31 |
popey | on the machine running btrfs? | 10:31 |
SuperMatt | yup | 10:31 |
brobostigon | xnox: very true. | 10:37 |
bigcalm | What looks best of the following? | 11:21 |
bigcalm | Run time: 2m 3s | 11:21 |
bigcalm | Runtime: 2m 3s | 11:21 |
bigcalm | Run-time: 2m 3s | 11:21 |
bigcalm | Which looks best | 11:21 |
bigcalm | I cannot English today | 11:22 |
davmor2 | bigcalm: Time Taken ;) | 11:22 |
mgdm | davmor2++ | 11:22 |
shauno | we always use runtime as one word, but that doesn't mean it's english, just jargon | 11:22 |
bigcalm | Humf | 11:22 |
bigcalm | I'm not sure I like the double capitalisation | 11:23 |
DJones | Ugh, changing work email providers is a pain, changeover great, but the amount of spam/virus/malware infected crap coming through on new account is annoying | 11:23 |
mgdm | bigcalm: then fix it :P | 11:23 |
bigcalm | mgdm: so ... much ... effort | 11:23 |
shauno | I hated our change-over because they got rid of my shortname. I used to have shaun.o'neil@ and soneil@, and would always use the shortname because why the hell did they put an apostrophe in my email address. WHY?! | 11:24 |
mgdm | because it's perfectly valid! but not supported by basically anyone :) | 11:24 |
davmor2 | bigcalm: depends who has to look at it. If it is real people then use real words that mean something. Runtime: to me means that the process is still running and has been for x time. Time taken: (lower case second word) says this is how long it took. | 11:25 |
shauno | oh it's RFC-valid. just not planet-earth valid. total sad panda territory. | 11:25 |
davmor2 | bigcalm: think Uptime on a server for example :) | 11:25 |
bigcalm | Fair enough | 11:26 |
bigcalm | Time taken it is then | 11:26 |
popey | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaJtjJNrWf0 | 11:28 |
popey | must watch | 11:28 |
popey | brilliance | 11:28 |
* bigcalm giggles | 11:29 | |
Myrtti | *yawn* | 11:30 |
* popey boggles at chromecast pricing | 11:31 | |
popey | £35 which is ~£21, but on amazon.co.uk it's £60! | 11:31 |
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch | ||
* mgdm wonders if his Cards Against Humanity have arrived | 11:32 | |
jussi | popey: I paid 60€ including postage (but I did have a friend send it from the states) | 11:33 |
popey | blimey, that's still £50 | 11:33 |
Myrtti | popey: the comments are telling | 11:33 |
jussi | popey: it is reasonable to use, but dont try watching streaming video in a browser | 11:33 |
jussi | Netflix and youtube are nice though | 11:33 |
diddledan | bug 63981 <-- I need to do some work to verify whether the bug is still present. problem is I don't have ubuntu on here right now :-p | 11:39 |
lubotu3 | bug 52685 in xinit (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #63981 x11-common installs dup files" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52685 | 11:39 |
diddledan | err | 11:39 |
diddledan | that's not the same bug | 11:39 |
diddledan | oh it's moved to freedesktop.org | 11:40 |
diddledan | I must have filed twice - once on ubuntu's launchpad and once on freedesktop.org | 11:42 |
brobostigon | good prog, floyd on food, bbc2 2:45. :) | 12:00 |
dwatkins | that's the middle of the night... | 12:14 |
* dwatkins ducks | 12:14 | |
brobostigon | 2:45pm* | 12:15 |
dwatkins | I grew up amongst europeans, so I tend to use the 24-hour clock a lot of the time. I assume everyone's familiar enough with it that it's understandable. | 12:16 |
=== alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g | ||
shauno | does that mean we're not europeans? | 12:37 |
=== iahmad|afk is now known as iahmad | ||
* brobostigon gets dwatkins a binary clock, miles more simple. | 12:45 | |
popey | lies | 12:47 |
popey | unless it has only two states. 0 = AM, 1 = PM | 12:47 |
popey | in which case, yes, way more simple | 12:47 |
SuperMatt | I think that's the clock that BT engineers and couriers use | 12:52 |
diddledan | seriously offtopic: I'm a nutjob, so please sign this petition or I'll ensure you're one of the 1200. (irony? seriously I would like folk to consider whether they feel mentally ill are misrepresented by this the Sun's article, and if you do then please sign the petition.) http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/thesunnewspaper-correct-the-sensationalism-in-your-mental-illness-story-and-donate-the-profits-from-it | 13:05 |
diddledan | (full disclosure, yes I'm a bona fide nutjob) | 13:05 |
diddledan | SuperMatt: yes, that's the clock they use, but it's usually running slow | 13:11 |
shauno | diddledan: so how many of 1200 were you? | 13:12 |
diddledan | shauno: most of them I think | 13:12 |
diddledan | I lost count | 13:12 |
diddledan | to be fair their random sample was a bit skewed when they included me :-p | 13:13 |
Laney | https://twitter.com/NottinghamCAMRA/status/387579186569035776/photo/1 | 14:07 |
mgdm | that background is... dazzling | 14:08 |
diddledan | ee gads, my eyes | 14:08 |
bigcalm | ARGH | 14:11 |
=== james is now known as Guest65319 | ||
dwatkins | ouch | 14:33 |
Laney | :D | 14:35 |
Laney | don't worry about that, take a look at the content instead | 14:35 |
dwatkins | the image of beer kegs unfortunately doesn't make up for the background | 14:35 |
Laney | click on it | 14:35 |
mgdm | it's CAMRA. It'll all be dull beer. :P | 14:39 |
Myrtti | AND CIDER | 14:41 |
Myrtti | don't forget the CIDER | 14:41 |
andyc | Can anyone recommend a gnome-do/synapse type launcher that is still actively in development? | 14:46 |
andyc | Can anyone recommend a gnome-do/synapse type launcher that is still actively in development? | 14:47 |
andyc | Oops sorry | 14:47 |
JohnRobert | hello, it's my yearly appearance | 15:01 |
JohnRobert | or is it rence | 15:01 |
daftykins | JohnRobert: ;) | 15:02 |
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte | ||
SuperMatt | has this been spammed here today? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24447313 | 15:24 |
daftykins | ooh-err | 15:25 |
JohnRobert | new bbc micro? | 15:31 |
diddledan | I would hope the bbc would approach the raspi foundation | 15:32 |
SuperMatt | oh for sure | 15:32 |
SuperMatt | but there's no mention of the beeb releasing a new machine | 15:33 |
SuperMatt | it is, however, quite exciting | 15:33 |
SuperMatt | ooh, I must set up my google helpouts page | 15:33 |
popey | SuperMatt: you have an invite? | 15:35 |
SuperMatt | yup :D | 15:35 |
popey | nice | 15:36 |
diddledan | google helpouts? | 15:37 |
diddledan | interesting | 15:38 |
diddledan | SuperMatt: what are you going to help people do? | 15:38 |
SuperMatt | I was gonna do some basic linux stuff | 15:39 |
SuperMatt | like *really* basic | 15:39 |
JohnRobert | rm -rf / | 15:39 |
diddledan | !danger | 15:39 |
lubotu3 | DO NOT RUN THAT COMMAND! That particular command is DANGEROUS and shouldn't be uttered here. REST OF YOU: DANGER, WILL ROBINSON, DANGER! Do not use the command or utter it here thank you! | 15:39 |
diddledan | :-p | 15:40 |
diddledan | I like rm -rf .* | 15:40 |
JohnRobert | I like cat /dev/urandom > /dev/sd* | 15:40 |
diddledan | !danger | 15:40 |
dwatkins | I prefer to add '--' in case there's a file with a dash at the start. | 15:40 |
diddledan | c'mon lubotu3 | 15:40 |
SuperMatt | so start with installing in a vm, teach them how to find rhythmbox, install flash, adobe reader, move on to some command line, and then hopefully get them to be able to install in live! | 15:40 |
SuperMatt | interesting... | 15:41 |
dwatkins | Flash never seems to install automatically in Firefox for me, I assume the 'reccomended' way is to apt-get install flashplugininstaller | 15:41 |
SuperMatt | you have to schedule an interview with a member of the Helpouts team | 15:41 |
SuperMatt | so they can see if you're qualified or not | 15:41 |
JohnRobert | interesting | 15:41 |
diddledan | o_O | 15:41 |
dwatkins | is the meeting request the test? | 15:41 |
SuperMatt | I don't know | 15:42 |
SuperMatt | it's not like I could have a test on sewing or something, if that's what I was helping out with | 15:42 |
JohnRobert | you could | 15:42 |
JohnRobert | they could say 'sew something' | 15:42 |
JohnRobert | then you'd spike your fingers lots | 15:42 |
JohnRobert | and they'ed deny you. | 15:42 |
SuperMatt | true | 15:42 |
diddledan | DENIED! | 15:42 |
SuperMatt | I'll have to do this part of the hangout on thursday | 15:43 |
SuperMatt | I've got dancing tonight and tomorrow | 15:43 |
SuperMatt | ah wait, it looks like you don't have to schedule a time with someone, but someone does need to review it | 15:46 |
SuperMatt | oh wait | 15:46 |
SuperMatt | yes, yes you do | 15:46 |
SuperMatt | hmmm... I think it might be worth prodding someone about setting up an official set of guidelines for people wishing to do google helpouts. Maybe I should take that task on | 15:51 |
popey | is it linux compatible? | 15:57 |
diddledan | popey: I would guess it's about as compatible as hangouts | 15:59 |
SuperMatt | popey: it just uses hangouts, as far as I'm aware | 16:07 |
SuperMatt | so these are the topics I would cover in beginners linux: http://helpouts.supermatt.net/ | 16:07 |
diddledan | I like how vim got in there without it being an entirely separate topic :-p | 16:09 |
diddledan | beginners linux and beginners vim should be entirely individualised :-p | 16:10 |
SuperMatt | well I figure I should have it for very basic edits | 16:10 |
SuperMatt | press I to go to insert mode | 16:10 |
SuperMatt | type what you want | 16:10 |
SuperMatt | press esc | 16:10 |
SuperMatt | :wq | 16:10 |
SuperMatt | just so they can get by | 16:11 |
diddledan | :x | 16:11 |
diddledan | better than :wq - one character less :-p | 16:11 |
SuperMatt | I've never used :x | 16:11 |
SuperMatt | but then I guess I like being explicit when I do things | 16:11 |
SuperMatt | otherwise you become a dirty perl programmer | 16:12 |
diddledan | worse, I'm a dirty php programmer | 16:12 |
diddledan | dirty dirty dirty.. the dirt won't come out | 16:12 |
SuperMatt | I've added a few commands in there now | 16:14 |
SuperMatt | I don't think there are really any more a beginer should use | 16:14 |
diddledan | ls & cd | 16:15 |
SuperMatt | oh yah | 16:15 |
diddledan | maybe pwd as well | 16:15 |
SuperMatt | added | 16:16 |
SuperMatt | oh | 16:19 |
SuperMatt | man | 16:19 |
SuperMatt | https://helpouts.google.com/offer/104760950939866700163/835dad061e4b03e7 is that visible to everyone? | 16:20 |
dwatkins | SuperMatt: I get: Helpouts isn't available yet, but we're currently inviting people with expertise across a number of topics to be able to offer Helpouts when we go live | 16:21 |
dwatkins | I guess I'm not special enough. | 16:21 |
SuperMatt | ah, fair enough | 16:21 |
* dwatkins signs-up | 16:22 | |
diddledan | I get "when can I join?" page | 16:22 |
SuperMatt | I think if the community gets together and comes up with a syllabus, we can create a good experience for ubuntu noobs | 16:22 |
SuperMatt | more tweaks added | 16:25 |
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|EOD | ||
MartijnVdS | why did Chrome just forget everything? | 17:35 |
brobostigon | thats happened to me on android the other day, everything needed to be authenticated again. | 17:38 |
popey | happens to me a lot | 17:39 |
MartijnVdS | popey: I've had my CHrome get in a weird state before, where opening a new window (say, from clicking a link in a terminal) would say "I couldn't open your profile" | 17:40 |
MartijnVdS | popey: but never "Hey this is Chrome, do you want this to be your default browser?" | 17:41 |
MartijnVdS | and then having to log in again to get my bookmarks back | 17:41 |
popey | oof | 17:41 |
brobostigon | is it stable chrome? or unstable? | 17:42 |
MartijnVdS | Versie 31.0.1650.12 beta | 17:44 |
MartijnVdS | so, technically, neither :P | 17:44 |
brobostigon | let me try beta on my nexus7, thats has it installed. | 17:45 |
MartijnVdS | that had its icon removed from my home screen as well, now that I think of it | 17:45 |
MartijnVdS | thought that was a pocket-phone action | 17:46 |
brobostigon | there is that new, 'add to home screen' function in beta. | 17:46 |
MartijnVdS | how is it different from dragging it there from the app list? | 17:50 |
* MartijnVdS can't find the function you're referring to? | 17:51 | |
brobostigon | in the menu in the top right, chrome beta on android. | 17:53 |
MartijnVdS | popey: you liked Akufen, didn't you? | 17:53 |
MartijnVdS | popey: https://soundcloud.com/danielavery/daniel-avery-drone-logic-album | 17:53 |
MartijnVdS | popey: you might like that guy | 17:53 |
MartijnVdS | popey: Sucked into so.cl? :) | 18:02 |
popey | MartijnVdS: nope ☻ | 18:10 |
MartijnVdS | ali1234: I got a "fix committed" on that bug, trying to find the actual commit now (L2TPv3) | 18:11 |
ali1234 | i have no idea what you are talking about... | 18:12 |
MartijnVdS | ali1234: that's because I'm confusing you with someone else | 18:13 |
MartijnVdS | ali1234: (Penguin42) | 18:14 |
MartijnVdS | ali1234: "The one with the numbers" ;) | 18:15 |
diddledan | lol, silly dutch | 18:27 |
SuperEngineer | 12.04 LTS Gwibber is now a total fail - & only a week ago I saw a post stating convergence wasn't letting desktop fall behind. hmmmm fail | 18:53 |
popey | SuperEngineer: hyperbole aside. bug number? | 19:05 |
SuperEngineer | popey - before I report a bug I try hard to find news on DDG or Google... just finished - no find. | 19:06 |
SuperEngineer | bug about to be reportrd | 19:06 |
SuperEngineer | *reported | 19:06 |
SuperEngineer | p.s hyperbole ~ noun. extravagant exaggeration - which part of either total or fail exagerates the truth? | 19:08 |
popey | well I don't know because you haven't actually given a single detail about the problem | 19:10 |
popey | but escalated it up to "total fail" | 19:10 |
davmor2 | SuperEngineer: Gwibber has issues due to the fact that the web works faster than the desktop, Facebook and twitter both updated their api feeds, as far as I know though it should of been backported to precise | 19:10 |
diddledan | >.< grandma! | 19:11 |
diddledan | s/of/have/ | 19:11 |
diddledan | or s/ of/'ve/ | 19:11 |
SuperEngineer | davmor2: I checked all updates from ptrevious week and a bit before - no Gwibber, Gwibber service, or Gwibber lens found... or other likely candidates either | 19:12 |
davmor2 | SuperEngineer: I guess it does help that gwibber is dead long live friend either | 19:13 |
diddledan | o_O | 19:13 |
popey | davmor2: 12.04 is a supported release, so it's not dead. | 19:13 |
davmor2 | popey: indeed but the upstream for qwibber is now working on friends, so I'm assuming the only person who is likely to touch it would be Ken and he's a bit busy | 19:15 |
popey | that may be true, but that doesn't mean we stop supporting 12.04 | 19:15 |
popey | if it's broken, a) file a bug, b) we need to fix it | 19:16 |
popey | I haven't seen a) yet | 19:16 |
davmor2 | popey: indeed ;) | 19:17 |
SuperEngineer | popey: no, that's coz I'm here answering questions;) | 19:17 |
SuperEngineer | popey the detail [though this is probably better put in bug] is: | 19:18 |
SuperEngineer | unable to recieve updates from FB in Gwibber. | 19:18 |
SuperEngineer | all components removed - reinstalled after restart - restarted after reinstall - zero access to facebook apart from a "add" [followed by usual authorise process] - then back to no a/c added & no updates... as if Gwibber had regressed to earlier version | 19:18 |
popey | I would recommend you open a terminal and type "ubuntu-bug gwibber-service" and file a bug | 19:19 |
popey | that will capture the version etc | 19:19 |
popey | and explain in the bug in terms someone else will understand.. the steps you have done, and what used to work and what no longer works | 19:19 |
popey | using terms like "total fail" or "doesn't work" are less useful than "click refresh, wait, no updates from facebook appear" | 19:20 |
SuperEngineer | popey: glad you posted that, was about to report against gwibber rather full name | 19:21 |
popey | you can post against either tbh | 19:21 |
SuperEngineer | :) | 19:22 |
SuperEngineer | reporting atm... is info given so far good enough or is more needed? | 19:23 |
popey | Time is a wasting! http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/259499751/tikker-the-wrist-watch-that-counts-down-your-life | 19:24 |
popey | Something which explains the problem to a developer.. | 19:25 |
SuperEngineer | hokey dokies | 19:25 |
SuperEngineer | popey: [thanks for stepping in - it is important to me as FB is my news stream from my daughter - 160 miles away] | 19:27 |
diddledan | yeah.. so, popey , if I live longer than they said I would do I get reimbursement for anguish caused in the run-up to my supposed death? | 19:29 |
popey | diddledan: this is a great concern for me too! | 19:30 |
popey | although I suspect it will stop being a concern the moment i expire | 19:30 |
popey | SuperEngineer: np | 19:30 |
diddledan | popey: I see they included the obligatory steve jobs quote | 19:31 |
=== GentileBen is now known as RaycisCharles | ||
ali1234 | any kind of software that integrates with a website is guaranteed to stop working withing 6 months | 19:35 |
ali1234 | and 12.04 is now nearly 18 months old | 19:35 |
ali1234 | and the rules for SRU basically limit it to bug fixes to bug that can cause data loss or total system crashes | 19:36 |
ali1234 | so gwibber being broken in 12.04 is nothing to do with changing focus - it never would have got fixed | 19:36 |
SuperEngineer | popey: bug #1237032 | 19:42 |
lubotu3 | bug 1237032 in gwibber (Ubuntu) "Gwibber not updating from facebook [not "refreshing"]" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1237032 | 19:42 |
popey | SuperEngineer: I'll try and reproduce that in a 12.04 VM | 20:00 |
SuperEngineer | popey ;) | 20:01 |
popey | 250MB updates on my VM | 20:04 |
SuperEngineer | yikes | 20:10 |
bigcalm | Which only takes a few seconds on a 60mb cable connection | 20:15 |
popey | SuperEngineer: in gwibber go to the accounts screen, do you see facebook in the list on the left? | 20:32 |
popey | http://popey.com/~alan/gwibber.png | 20:34 |
popey | i see no facebook account after adding it | 20:34 |
SuperEngineer | popey: I used to, after deleting a/c, restarting, re-adding [authourising] it doesn't appear - but does show in FB as authorised | 20:34 |
popey | where? | 20:35 |
SuperEngineer | ..in other words... exactly as per your result | 20:35 |
SuperEngineer | in FB under app settings - Gwibber shows as authorised [you can remove it - re-authorise in Gwibber & it shows as an auth'd app again] | 20:37 |
SuperEngineer | Gwibber shows no account added | 20:37 |
popey | ok, confirmed the bug.. | 20:40 |
SuperEngineer | cheers popey [& for what it's worth http://imagebin.org/273133 shows my a/c's - same as yours on left] | 20:41 |
* SuperEngineer thanks & hugs popey | 20:42 | |
SuperEngineer | p.s. twitter is in list to prove something works! | 20:43 |
popey | right, good, same issue most likely then | 20:49 |
tpe | Why is Solo_in_Casa auto /msg-ing on join? | 22:13 |
Azelphur | no idea, he probably shouldn't be | 22:13 |
tpe | It wasn't a link, but it's auto because it has the exact timestamp of me joining. | 22:15 |
Azelphur | yea, he's doing it to me too | 22:16 |
tpe | That solves that. :) | 22:18 |
Azelphur | indeed :) | 22:18 |
bigcalm | Anything of interest? | 22:30 |
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away |
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