[08:14] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:22] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[08:32] <Laney> xnox: royal mail?
[08:35] <xnox> Laney: yeap.
[08:35] <Laney> thinking about that
[08:35] <Laney> how easy is it?
[08:36] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:37] <Laney> czzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzajkowski
[08:39] <xnox> Laney: gov.uk website, web form, debit card, done. 3 minutes max.
[08:40] <xnox> Laney: https://www.gov.uk/royalmailshares
[08:43] <Laney> xnox: I felt obliged to read the huge prospectus
[08:43] <Laney> and then it asked me about share dealers or something
[08:43] <Laney> so got scared off
[08:44] <xnox> Laney: if you are planning to invest under 10 000, just do it via gov.uk website (which is managed by a dedicated share dealer Royal Mail Share Dealings or some such)
[08:44] <Laney> yeah
[08:44] <Laney> I don't understand what that even means
[08:44] <xnox> Laney: or if you have existing investments accounts with your bank / mortgage / pension provider / stocks ISA, you could place an order through your dealer.
[08:45] <Laney> would it be better to get a stocks and shares ISA for this?
[08:45] <xnox> Laney: it means that you get an email that you have shares, yet physical printed copies are stored elsewhere in your name.
[08:46] <xnox> Laney: could be, but the set-up takes about 2 weeks usually. And not worth the fees for an individual investment. Makes sense to have stocks & shares ISA, if you are into tracking news and spreading funds and making your decisions.
[09:10] <JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Face Your Fears Day! :-D
[09:14] <shauno> that doesn't sound very happy :/
[09:17] <JamesTait> shauno, I can't think of anything more positive. :)
[09:18] <JamesTait> Well, I probably could if I tried.
[10:01] <davmor2_> Morning all
[10:05] <bigcalm> Morning davmor2
[10:19] <SuperMatt> oh man, I just jammed a new disk in my machine, ran btrfs device add and BLAMMO! I now one large disk instead of two of separate ones
[10:19] <SuperMatt> <3 btrfs
[10:19] <SuperMatt> I'm becoming more and more convinced to switch on my home PC
[10:22] <xnox> SuperMatt: yes, now think about it, you no longer can unplug either of the hard-drivers. And if either of them fails you lose all your data.
[10:23] <xnox> SuperMatt: thus you now have doubled your chances of loosing your data due to hardware failure.
[10:24] <brobostigon> why not raid them? then no risk.
[10:24] <SuperMatt> xnox: sure, but this isn't a production machine, this is just my work PC. I save all my important stuff to the network drive
[10:25] <SuperMatt> and at home, I have other backup solutions
[10:25] <xnox> brobostigon: doing raid 1, sure you can, but then no space gain either =(
[10:25] <brobostigon> xnox: no space gain, bur safer, whichever is the priority.
[10:26] <xnox> brobostigon: true, it's just e.g. there is no way at the moment to have two btrfs pools, one per drive. That way one would preserve data-locality and disaster locality.
[10:27] <brobostigon> xnox: i see, fair point,
[10:27] <xnox> brobostigon: e.g. if one drive has / and the other drive has /home, then with ext4, one hardware failure takes out only that part of data. With btrfs it always takes out all.
[10:27] <xnox> =)
[10:29]  * popey hugs btrfs
[10:29] <popey> don't listen to the horrible man
[10:29] <popey> SuperMatt: what kernel you running?
[10:30] <SuperMatt>  3.11.0-11-generic
[10:30] <SuperMatt> I'm saucy, baby
[10:31] <SuperMatt> I'm almost always on +1
[10:31] <popey> on the machine running btrfs?
[10:31] <SuperMatt> yup
[10:37] <brobostigon> xnox: very true.
[11:21] <bigcalm> What looks best of the following?
[11:21] <bigcalm> Run time: 2m 3s
[11:21] <bigcalm> Runtime: 2m 3s
[11:21] <bigcalm> Run-time: 2m 3s
[11:21] <bigcalm> Which looks best
[11:22] <bigcalm> I cannot English today
[11:22] <davmor2> bigcalm: Time Taken ;)
[11:22] <mgdm> davmor2++
[11:22] <shauno> we always use runtime as one word, but that doesn't mean it's english, just jargon
[11:22] <bigcalm> Humf
[11:23] <bigcalm> I'm not sure I like the double capitalisation
[11:23] <DJones> Ugh, changing work email providers is a pain, changeover great, but the amount of spam/virus/malware infected crap coming through on new account is annoying
[11:23] <mgdm> bigcalm: then fix it :P
[11:23] <bigcalm> mgdm: so ... much ... effort
[11:24] <shauno> I hated our change-over because they got rid of my shortname.  I used to have shaun.o'neil@ and soneil@, and would always use the shortname because why the hell did they put an apostrophe in my email address. WHY?!
[11:24] <mgdm> because it's perfectly valid! but not supported by basically anyone :)
[11:25] <davmor2> bigcalm: depends who has to look at it.  If it is real people then use real words that mean something.  Runtime: to me means that the process is still running and has been for x time.  Time taken: (lower case second word) says this is how long it took.
[11:25] <shauno> oh it's RFC-valid.  just not planet-earth valid.  total sad panda territory.
[11:25] <davmor2> bigcalm: think Uptime on a server for example :)
[11:26] <bigcalm> Fair enough
[11:26] <bigcalm> Time taken it is then
[11:28] <popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaJtjJNrWf0
[11:28] <popey> must watch
[11:28] <popey> brilliance
[11:29]  * bigcalm giggles
[11:30] <Myrtti> *yawn*
[11:31]  * popey boggles at chromecast pricing
[11:31] <popey> £35 which is ~£21, but on amazon.co.uk it's £60!
[11:32]  * mgdm wonders if his Cards Against Humanity have arrived
[11:33] <jussi> popey: I paid 60€ including postage (but I did have a friend send it from the states)
[11:33] <popey> blimey, that's still £50
[11:33] <Myrtti> popey: the comments are telling
[11:33] <jussi> popey: it is reasonable to use, but dont try watching streaming video in a browser
[11:33] <jussi> Netflix and youtube are nice though
[11:39] <diddledan> bug 63981 <-- I need to do some work to verify whether the bug is still present. problem is I don't have ubuntu on here right now :-p
[11:39] <diddledan> err
[11:39] <diddledan> that's not the same bug
[11:40] <diddledan> oh it's moved to freedesktop.org
[11:42] <diddledan> I must have filed twice - once on ubuntu's launchpad and once on freedesktop.org
[12:00] <brobostigon> good prog, floyd on food, bbc2 2:45. :)
[12:14] <dwatkins> that's the middle of the night...
[12:14]  * dwatkins ducks
[12:15] <brobostigon> 2:45pm*
[12:16] <dwatkins> I grew up amongst europeans, so I tend to use the 24-hour clock a lot of the time. I assume everyone's familiar enough with it that it's understandable.
[12:37] <shauno> does that mean we're not europeans?
[12:45]  * brobostigon gets dwatkins a binary clock, miles more simple.
[12:47] <popey> lies
[12:47] <popey> unless it has only two states. 0 = AM, 1 = PM
[12:47] <popey> in which case, yes, way more simple
[12:52] <SuperMatt> I think that's the clock that BT engineers and couriers use
[13:05] <diddledan> seriously offtopic: I'm a nutjob, so please sign this petition or I'll ensure you're one of the 1200. (irony? seriously I would like folk to consider whether they feel mentally ill are misrepresented by this the Sun's article, and if you do then please sign the petition.) http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/thesunnewspaper-correct-the-sensationalism-in-your-mental-illness-story-and-donate-the-profits-from-it
[13:05] <diddledan> (full disclosure, yes I'm a bona fide nutjob)
[13:11] <diddledan> SuperMatt: yes, that's the clock they use, but it's usually running slow
[13:12] <shauno> diddledan: so how many of 1200 were you?
[13:12] <diddledan> shauno: most of them I think
[13:12] <diddledan> I lost count
[13:13] <diddledan> to be fair their random sample was a bit skewed when they included me :-p
[14:07] <Laney> https://twitter.com/NottinghamCAMRA/status/387579186569035776/photo/1
[14:08] <mgdm> that background is... dazzling
[14:08] <diddledan> ee gads, my eyes
[14:11] <bigcalm> ARGH
[14:33] <dwatkins> ouch
[14:35] <Laney> :D
[14:35] <Laney> don't worry about that, take a look at the content instead
[14:35] <dwatkins> the image of beer kegs unfortunately doesn't make up for the background
[14:35] <Laney> click on it
[14:39] <mgdm> it's CAMRA. It'll all be dull beer. :P
[14:41] <Myrtti> AND CIDER
[14:41] <Myrtti> don't forget the CIDER
[14:46] <andyc> Can anyone recommend a gnome-do/synapse type launcher that is still actively in development?
[14:47] <andyc> Can anyone recommend a gnome-do/synapse type launcher that is still actively in development?
[14:47] <andyc> Oops sorry
[15:01] <JohnRobert> hello, it's my yearly appearance
[15:01] <JohnRobert> or is it rence
[15:02] <daftykins> JohnRobert: ;)
[15:24] <SuperMatt> has this been spammed here today? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24447313
[15:25] <daftykins> ooh-err
[15:31] <JohnRobert> new bbc micro?
[15:32] <diddledan> I would hope the bbc would approach the raspi foundation
[15:32] <SuperMatt> oh for sure
[15:33] <SuperMatt> but there's no mention of the beeb releasing a new machine
[15:33] <SuperMatt> it is, however, quite exciting
[15:33] <SuperMatt> ooh, I must set up my google helpouts page
[15:35] <popey> SuperMatt: you have an invite?
[15:35] <SuperMatt> yup :D
[15:36] <popey> nice
[15:37] <diddledan> google helpouts?
[15:38] <diddledan> interesting
[15:38] <diddledan> SuperMatt: what are you going to help people do?
[15:39] <SuperMatt> I was gonna do some basic linux stuff
[15:39] <SuperMatt> like *really* basic
[15:39] <JohnRobert> rm -rf /
[15:39] <diddledan> !danger
[15:40] <diddledan> :-p
[15:40] <diddledan> I like rm -rf .*
[15:40] <JohnRobert> I like cat /dev/urandom > /dev/sd*
[15:40] <diddledan> !danger
[15:40] <dwatkins> I prefer to add '--' in case there's a file with a dash at the start.
[15:40] <diddledan> c'mon lubotu3
[15:40] <SuperMatt> so start with installing in a vm, teach them how to find rhythmbox, install flash, adobe reader, move on to some command line, and then hopefully get them to be able to install in live!
[15:41] <SuperMatt> interesting...
[15:41] <dwatkins> Flash never seems to install automatically in Firefox for me, I assume the 'reccomended' way is to apt-get install flashplugininstaller
[15:41] <SuperMatt> you have to schedule an interview with a member of the Helpouts team
[15:41] <SuperMatt> so they can see if you're qualified or not
[15:41] <JohnRobert> interesting
[15:41] <diddledan> o_O
[15:41] <dwatkins> is the meeting request the test?
[15:42] <SuperMatt> I don't know
[15:42] <SuperMatt> it's not like I could have a test on sewing or something, if that's what I was helping out with
[15:42] <JohnRobert> you could
[15:42] <JohnRobert> they could say 'sew something'
[15:42] <JohnRobert> then you'd spike your fingers lots
[15:42] <JohnRobert> and they'ed deny you.
[15:42] <SuperMatt> true
[15:42] <diddledan> DENIED!
[15:43] <SuperMatt> I'll have to do this part of the hangout on thursday
[15:43] <SuperMatt> I've got dancing tonight and tomorrow
[15:46] <SuperMatt> ah wait, it looks like you don't have to schedule a time with someone, but someone does need to review it
[15:46] <SuperMatt> oh wait
[15:46] <SuperMatt> yes, yes you do
[15:51] <SuperMatt> hmmm... I think it might be worth prodding someone about setting up an official set of guidelines for people wishing to do google helpouts. Maybe I should take that task on
[15:57] <popey> is it linux compatible?
[15:59] <diddledan> popey: I would guess it's about as compatible as hangouts
[16:07] <SuperMatt> popey: it just uses hangouts, as far as I'm aware
[16:07] <SuperMatt> so these are the topics I would cover in beginners linux: http://helpouts.supermatt.net/
[16:09] <diddledan> I like how vim got in there without it being an entirely separate topic :-p
[16:10] <diddledan> beginners linux and beginners vim should be entirely individualised :-p
[16:10] <SuperMatt> well I figure I should have it for very basic edits
[16:10] <SuperMatt> press I to go to insert mode
[16:10] <SuperMatt> type what you want
[16:10] <SuperMatt> press esc
[16:10] <SuperMatt> :wq
[16:11] <SuperMatt> just so they can get by
[16:11] <diddledan> :x
[16:11] <diddledan> better than :wq - one character less :-p
[16:11] <SuperMatt> I've never used :x
[16:11] <SuperMatt> but then I guess I like being explicit when I do things
[16:12] <SuperMatt> otherwise you become a dirty perl programmer
[16:12] <diddledan> worse, I'm a dirty php programmer
[16:12] <diddledan> dirty dirty dirty.. the dirt won't come out
[16:14] <SuperMatt> I've added a few commands in there now
[16:14] <SuperMatt> I don't think there are really any more a beginer should use
[16:15] <diddledan> ls & cd
[16:15] <SuperMatt> oh yah
[16:15] <diddledan> maybe pwd as well
[16:16] <SuperMatt> added
[16:19] <SuperMatt> oh
[16:19] <SuperMatt> man
[16:20] <SuperMatt> https://helpouts.google.com/offer/104760950939866700163/835dad061e4b03e7 is that visible to everyone?
[16:21] <dwatkins> SuperMatt: I get: Helpouts isn't available yet, but we're currently inviting people with expertise across a number of topics to be able to offer Helpouts when we go live
[16:21] <dwatkins> I guess I'm not special enough.
[16:21] <SuperMatt> ah, fair enough
[16:22]  * dwatkins signs-up
[16:22] <diddledan> I get "when can I join?" page
[16:22] <SuperMatt> I think if the community gets together and comes up with a syllabus, we can create a good experience for ubuntu noobs
[16:25] <SuperMatt> more tweaks added
[17:35] <MartijnVdS> why did Chrome just forget everything?
[17:38] <brobostigon> thats happened to me on android the other day, everything needed to be authenticated again.
[17:39] <popey> happens to me a lot
[17:40] <MartijnVdS> popey: I've had my CHrome get in a weird state before, where opening a new window (say, from clicking a link in a terminal) would say "I couldn't open your profile"
[17:41] <MartijnVdS> popey: but never "Hey this is Chrome, do you want this to be your default browser?"
[17:41] <MartijnVdS> and then having to log in again to get my bookmarks back
[17:41] <popey> oof
[17:42] <brobostigon> is it stable chrome? or unstable?
[17:44] <MartijnVdS> Versie 31.0.1650.12 beta
[17:44] <MartijnVdS> so, technically, neither :P
[17:45] <brobostigon> let me try beta on my nexus7, thats has it installed.
[17:45] <MartijnVdS> that had its icon removed from my home screen as well, now that I think of it
[17:46] <MartijnVdS> thought that was a pocket-phone action
[17:46] <brobostigon> there is that new, 'add to home screen' function in beta.
[17:50] <MartijnVdS> how is it different from dragging it there from the app list?
[17:51]  * MartijnVdS can't find the function you're referring to?
[17:53] <brobostigon> in the menu in the top right, chrome beta on android.
[17:53] <MartijnVdS> popey: you liked Akufen, didn't you?
[17:53] <MartijnVdS> popey: https://soundcloud.com/danielavery/daniel-avery-drone-logic-album
[17:53] <MartijnVdS> popey: you might like that guy
[18:02] <MartijnVdS> popey: Sucked into so.cl? :)
[18:10] <popey> MartijnVdS: nope ☻
[18:11] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: I got a "fix committed" on that bug, trying to find the actual commit now (L2TPv3)
[18:12] <ali1234> i have no idea what you are talking about...
[18:13] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: that's because I'm confusing you with someone else
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: (Penguin42)
[18:15] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: "The one with the numbers" ;)
[18:27] <diddledan> lol, silly dutch
[18:53] <SuperEngineer> 12.04 LTS Gwibber is now a total fail - & only a week ago I saw a post stating convergence wasn't letting desktop fall behind. hmmmm  fail
[19:05] <popey> SuperEngineer: hyperbole aside. bug number?
[19:06] <SuperEngineer> popey - before I report a bug I try hard to find news on DDG or Google... just finished - no find.
[19:06] <SuperEngineer> bug about to be reportrd
[19:06] <SuperEngineer> *reported
[19:08] <SuperEngineer> p.s hyperbole ~ noun. extravagant exaggeration - which part of either total or fail exagerates the truth?
[19:10] <popey> well I don't know because you haven't actually given a single detail about the problem
[19:10] <popey> but escalated it up to "total fail"
[19:10] <davmor2> SuperEngineer: Gwibber has issues due to the fact that the web works faster than the desktop,  Facebook and twitter both updated their api feeds,  as far as I know though it should of been backported to precise
[19:11] <diddledan> >.< grandma!
[19:11] <diddledan> s/of/have/
[19:11] <diddledan> or s/ of/'ve/
[19:12] <SuperEngineer> davmor2: I checked all updates from ptrevious week and a bit before - no Gwibber, Gwibber service, or Gwibber lens found... or other likely candidates either
[19:13] <davmor2> SuperEngineer: I guess it does help that gwibber is dead long live friend either
[19:13] <diddledan> o_O
[19:13] <popey> davmor2: 12.04 is a supported release, so it's not dead.
[19:15] <davmor2> popey: indeed but the upstream for qwibber is now working on friends, so I'm assuming the only person who is likely to touch it would be Ken and he's a bit busy
[19:15] <popey> that may be true, but that doesn't mean we stop supporting 12.04
[19:16] <popey> if it's broken, a) file a bug, b) we need to fix it
[19:16] <popey> I haven't seen a) yet
[19:17] <davmor2> popey: indeed ;)
[19:17] <SuperEngineer> popey: no, that's coz I'm here answering questions;)
[19:18] <SuperEngineer> popey the detail [though this is probably better put in bug] is:
[19:18] <SuperEngineer> unable to recieve updates from FB in Gwibber.
[19:18] <SuperEngineer> all components removed - reinstalled after restart - restarted after reinstall - zero access to facebook apart from a "add" [followed by usual authorise process] - then back to no a/c added & no updates... as if Gwibber had regressed to earlier version
[19:19] <popey> I would recommend you open a terminal and type "ubuntu-bug gwibber-service" and file a bug
[19:19] <popey> that will capture the version etc
[19:19] <popey> and explain in the bug in terms someone else will understand.. the steps you have done, and what used to work and what no longer works
[19:20] <popey> using terms like "total fail" or "doesn't work" are less useful than "click refresh, wait, no updates from facebook appear"
[19:21] <SuperEngineer> popey: glad you posted that, was about to report against gwibber rather full name
[19:21] <popey> you can post against either tbh
[19:22] <SuperEngineer> :)
[19:23] <SuperEngineer> reporting atm... is info given so far good enough or is more needed?
[19:24] <popey> Time is a wasting! http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/259499751/tikker-the-wrist-watch-that-counts-down-your-life
[19:25] <popey> Something which explains the problem to a developer..
[19:25] <SuperEngineer> hokey dokies
[19:27] <SuperEngineer> popey: [thanks for stepping in - it is important to me as FB is my news stream from my daughter - 160 miles away]
[19:29] <diddledan> yeah.. so, popey , if I live longer than they said I would do I get reimbursement for anguish caused in the run-up to my supposed death?
[19:30] <popey> diddledan: this is a great concern for me too!
[19:30] <popey> although I suspect it will stop being a concern the moment i expire
[19:30] <popey> SuperEngineer: np
[19:31] <diddledan> popey: I see they included the obligatory steve jobs quote
[19:35] <ali1234> any kind of software that integrates with a website is guaranteed to stop working withing 6 months
[19:35] <ali1234> and 12.04 is now nearly 18 months old
[19:36] <ali1234> and the rules for SRU basically limit it to bug fixes to bug that can cause data loss or total system crashes
[19:36] <ali1234> so gwibber being broken in 12.04 is nothing to do with changing focus - it never would have got fixed
[19:42] <SuperEngineer> popey: bug #1237032
[20:00] <popey> SuperEngineer: I'll try and reproduce that in a 12.04 VM
[20:01] <SuperEngineer> popey ;)
[20:04] <popey> 250MB updates on my VM
[20:10] <SuperEngineer> yikes
[20:15] <bigcalm> Which only takes a few seconds on a 60mb cable connection
[20:32] <popey> SuperEngineer: in gwibber go to the accounts screen, do you see facebook in the list on the left?
[20:34] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/gwibber.png
[20:34] <popey> i see no facebook account after adding it
[20:34] <SuperEngineer> popey: I used to, after deleting a/c, restarting, re-adding [authourising] it doesn't appear - but does show in FB as authorised
[20:35] <popey> where?
[20:35] <SuperEngineer> ..in other words... exactly as per your result
[20:37] <SuperEngineer> in FB under app settings - Gwibber shows as authorised [you can remove it  - re-authorise in Gwibber & it shows as an auth'd app again]
[20:37] <SuperEngineer> Gwibber shows no account added
[20:40] <popey> ok, confirmed the bug..
[20:41] <SuperEngineer> cheers popey [& for what it's worth http://imagebin.org/273133 shows my a/c's - same as yours on left]
[20:42]  * SuperEngineer thanks & hugs popey 
[20:43] <SuperEngineer> p.s. twitter is in list to prove something works!
[20:49] <popey> right, good, same issue most likely then
[22:13] <tpe> Why is Solo_in_Casa auto /msg-ing on join?
[22:13] <Azelphur> no idea, he probably shouldn't be
[22:15] <tpe> It wasn't a link, but it's auto because it has the exact timestamp of me joining.
[22:16] <Azelphur> yea, he's doing it to me too
[22:18] <tpe> That solves that. :)
[22:18] <Azelphur> indeed :)
[22:30] <bigcalm> Anything of interest?