[00:04] <brainwash> ochosi: bug 1196752 makes me think "what the heck is goind on?!"
[00:05] <brainwash> ah, so nm relies on upower which relies on logind...
[00:06] <brainwash> screw this mess :)
[07:03] <olbi> hi guys
[07:03] <elfy> morning olbi 
[07:03] <olbi> again in my Xubu 13.10 Beta doesn't work restart button after upgrades :P
[08:19] <astraljava> Does anyone know how to enable 256 in saucy's xfce4-terminal?
[08:20] <astraljava> Setting the normal compatibility (xterm-256color) will not work, complains about not finding the correct info from /etc/termcap (which is correct, as there is no such file).
[08:25] <astraljava> Hmm... ok, so it is there by default, but still my weechat looks off.
[08:48] <astraljava> Right, just needed to export a $TERM, so that ssh knew about it.
[10:06] <brainwash> olbi: does the shutdown button work?
[10:06] <olbi> normal button works
[10:07] <olbi> but after updates, when dialog option for restart appears, that button doesn't work
[10:07] <olbi> i will check it one more time, in new machine
[10:08] <brainwash> ok, so it's the update-manager
[10:09] <brainwash> bug 1232363
[10:09] <elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1232363
[10:09] <elfy> ninja'd by brainwash 
[10:10] <brainwash> just found this report, is it really xubuntu-specific?
[10:10] <elfy> no idea tbh brainwash - I forgot I posted it
[10:12] <brainwash> did the button fail or the did the system fail to restart after pressing the button?
[10:12] <elfy> press the button - nothing happens
[10:13] <elfy> got an oldish ubuntu iso - will try that in a vm
[10:21] <olbi> brainwash: thx for the bug :)
[10:29] <elfy> brainwash: restarted ok in ubuntu
[10:36] <brainwash> olbi: any error messages in ~/.cache/upstart/startxfce4.log ?
[10:37] <brainwash> ideally you would need to check the log file after pressing the button
[10:38] <brainwash> or start the update-manager inside a terminal window to get the error output
[10:39] <olbi> only xfce4-indicator-plugin errors
[10:43] <elfy> just doing that in the vm - hopefully it'll be looking for a restart
[10:43] <brainwash> without any information other than "button does not work" it will take some time to find out why it fails :(
[10:43] <olbi> if there will be some updates that need restart then I will save the errors
[10:45] <elfy> brainwash: ok - so pressing restart pointlessly - adds nothing to startxfce4.log 
[10:46] <brainwash> and starting it inside a terminal window?
[10:47] <brainwash> update-manager I think
[10:48] <elfy> says nothing after the button is pressed
[10:50] <elfy> I'll leave the vm open in the same state in case you can think of anything to check
[10:54] <elfy> though it does give this in terminal - when it starts - "warning: could not open /var/cache/debconf/passwords.dat: Permission Denied"
[10:54] <elfy> but that makes sense as at that point it's not had a password 
[11:07] <elfy> bluesabre: yep - did that - works fine - commented in bug 1193621
[11:07] <bluesabre> thanks elfy
[11:08] <elfy> no - thank you :)
[11:08] <bluesabre> dvd support seems messed up in 13.10
[11:08] <bluesabre> there is no /dev/dvd
[11:09] <bluesabre> and symlinking it to sr0 doesn't make it work for totem or parole
[11:09] <bluesabre> though vlc figures it out
[11:10] <knome> i've always had the same problems with that
[11:10] <knome> i mean, with parole, and other apps as well
[11:11] <bluesabre> this is the first time for me, it's always worked pre-13.10
[11:11] <olbi> that's why I'm using VLC :D
[11:11] <knome> think that's something that should be fixed on a larger scale; eg. if /dev/dvd doesn't work, and a dvd is recognised, it should be created so it works
[11:12] <bluesabre> agreed
[11:14] <brainwash> elfy: used update-manager to fetch the latest updates and the restart button did trigger a restart of my system, so I can't confirm this issue
[11:17] <elfy> mmm
[11:17] <elfy> odd then 
[11:19] <elfy> brainwash: you did that in a vanilla install or in one you've been fiddling - another reason I wish I'd remembered this morning, then I'd have done it in a vanilla and this one
[11:21] <brainwash> elfy: my test installation (2 weeks old already, bloated with every DE and all the top 100 applications)
[11:21] <elfy> I'd assumed so :)
[11:22] <elfy> same issue on this - fiddled about with things over the last couple of weeks - so no idea if doing so clears the issue
[11:25] <brainwash> it seems to only to affect a small range of users (2?)
[11:28] <elfy> at the moment :p
[11:29] <elfy> I know I tend to actually only use update manager now and again to test it
[11:29] <elfy> I'd imagine lots of people update/grade with apt-get
[11:30] <elfy> at least lots of those during pre-release
[11:32] <elfy> posting it on the forum see if anyone else see's it
[13:04] <jjfrv8> elfy, I me too'd bug 1232363. I saw it during by b2 testing, but thought I had mis-clicked something so I didn't report it.
[13:06] <jjfrv8> bluesabre, I've been playing with the Parole docs on docuwiki and have a couple of questions.
[13:06] <elfy> jjfrv8: ta
[13:17] <brainwash> maybe dbus related, but update-manager should throw a timeout error in case there is a communication problem
[13:23] <jjfrv8> Just ran update-manager from the terminal.  Called for a restart. It won't.
[13:24] <jjfrv8> I also had a problem right after launching it.  It said it couldn't download the repository information and to check my internet connection.
[13:24] <jjfrv8> That's happened the last few times I've run it.
[13:25] <jjfrv8> If I run it anyway, it works.
[13:26] <jjfrv8> A couple of errors and lots of warnings showing in the terminal.
[13:27] <elfy> permission errors - they make sense to me - you're not running it as root and it's after root stuff
[13:29] <jjfrv8> ok. The errors are "root:Could not find any typelib for Dbusmenu" and same thing for "Unity"
[13:30] <elfy> debconf: DbDriver "passwords" warning: could not open /var/cache/debconf/passwords.dat: Permission denied
[13:30] <elfy> and I see those errors and the warning 
[13:31] <jjfrv8> yup
[13:32] <elfy> I'm glad someone I know sees the same thing - I hate when you get a confirmation and have no idea who it is :p
[13:32] <brainwash> same here, but it did restart
[13:47] <jjfrv8> Here's that warning I get every time I run update manager now: imagebin.org/273088
[13:50] <jjfrv8> Never mind. I see why that is.
[13:51] <elfy> pebkac ?
[13:51] <elfy> :)
[13:52] <jjfrv8> ?
[13:53] <elfy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebkac#Acronyms_and_other_names_for_a_user_error
[13:53] <jjfrv8> that's the one. :(
[13:54] <elfy> happens all the time here :)
[13:58] <jjfrv8> bbl
[15:14] <ochosi> elfy: i can confirm that bug as well. restart doesn't work
[15:15] <ochosi> brainwash: that bug exactly confirms what was said earlier: ubuntu transitions to new systems too quickly and sometimes a bit recklessly
[15:16] <ochosi> although you can argue that this is not LTS so they can experiment and fix it for 14.04
[15:27] <elfy> thanks ochosi 
[15:27] <elfy> I've subscribed us to it now 
[15:28] <ochosi> thanks
[16:06] <micahcowan> laptop lid suspends, no matter what I tell it in the settings manager.
[16:07] <micahcowan> Installed via USB startup disk, but /home is a separate partition, so any existing user config from previous (raring) install would be carried over, if that's part of the problem.
[16:08] <micahcowan> (this is probably wrong chan, which is right? is there a #xubuntu+1 or similar? apologies for the noise)
[16:09] <brainwash> micahcowan: edit /etc/systemd/logind.conf
[16:09] <micahcowan> Tried that... do I also have to run some "service restart foo" thing to get it respected, or ought that to have "just worked"?
[16:09] <micahcowan> And, if it doesn't work, does that mean the problem lies with g-s-d rather than systemd/logind?
[16:10] <micahcowan> (HandleLidSwitch=ignore)
[16:10] <brainwash> and you removed the '#' also, right?
[16:10] <ochosi> micahcowan: with settings-manager, you're referring to the powermanager's settings, right?
[16:10] <micahcowan> yes
[16:11] <micahcowan> nm about g-s-d, that'd be gnome-specific wouldn't it :D
[16:11] <brainwash> indeed
[16:12] <micahcowan> Does the powermanager setting store somewhere under ~/.config or something? I'd be happy to blow that away and reload the settings, in case it's having issues with differences in text format between raring and saucy, or something...
[16:12] <ochosi> no, that's in an xml file
[16:12] <micahcowan> and yes, I removed the #. Is it reread automatically by logind, or do I need to "bump" it?
[16:12] <ochosi> you can use the "settings editor" to double-check on the config
[16:13] <ochosi> bbl
[16:13] <micahcowan> IIRC, some select boxes were "blank", rather than having the proper settings, so I have a suspicion the XML format for those settings may have changed... where are they located?
[16:14] <micahcowan> (but even after setting them properly, they don't seem to be taking effect)
[16:16] <brainwash> regarding logind, check the output of "gdbus introspect --system --dest org.freedesktop.login1 --object-path /org/freedesktop/login1 --only-properties"
[16:17] <micahcowan> Hm, appears to be suspend
[16:18] <micahcowan> Okay, got it
[16:19] <micahcowan> Did "sudo service systemd-logind restart", and now those readings look right
[16:19] <micahcowan> ...and laptop lid didn't kill my xchat session, so that's a good sign :)
[16:20] <micahcowan> now, is it still a sign of "something wrong" that logind's settings get used directly, rather than xfce4-power-manager-settings handling things when it's running?
[16:21] <micahcowan> And, for my future reference, is there a support channel for development releases, so I'm not pestering developers in the development channel next time...
[16:21] <brainwash> nothing is actually wrong, it's not configured properly
[16:21] <micahcowan> Thanks for your help
[16:21] <brainwash> yea, try #ubuntu+1
[16:22] <micahcowan> They'll handle Xubuntu-ish questions too, then? (I realize that logind is general, but xfce4-power-manager-settings isn't, and my understanding is that the desktop power manager is meant to trump logind, or something... at least from the banter on Malone)
[16:23] <brainwash> well, logind is new and still no integrated fully
[16:25] <brainwash> apps still rely on upower instead of calling logind
[16:26] <brainwash> it will be sorted soon, but sadly not in time for the final release of 13.10
[16:26] <micahcowan> Ah, that's good information to have.
[16:26] <micahcowan> Yeah, no big surprise there. Maybe it'll make it into 13.10.1.
[16:27] <micahcowan> So long as I have the workaround... it was getting damned annoying losing my ssh and IM and all that, every time I close my lid :) ...I really appreciate the help.
[16:27] <brainwash> 13.10 is somewhat like a experimental ground for the next LTS release
[16:28] <brainwash> glad we could help you :)
[19:07] <Unit193> Well crap, shouldn't have updated.
[19:07] <knome> hm?
[19:09] <elfy> I found that once 
[19:12] <Unit193> It's doing fairly good at showing the desktop background, but not much else.  Crash on startup, dbus-daemon...
[19:12] <Unit193> And xfce4-power-manager.  Also a random permission denied message, but don't know what for.
[20:13] <Unit193> Okay.... So downloaded https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dbus/1.6.12-0ubuntu6 and seems to be working now...
[20:14] <Unit193> Ah, the other computer hasn't updated to the new one, it's still on 7.  Can anyone confirm that 8 does "bad things" with them?
[20:20] <brainwash> 8 is addressing some apparmor issues
[20:22] <brainwash> so disable apparmor temporary
[20:23] <Unit193> That's what the changelog said, yeah.  I downgraded, worked.
[20:25] <brainwash> time to file a bug report
[20:25] <Unit193> But it's not hit you?
[20:28] <brainwash> I'm behind with updates, so still on 7
[20:43] <Unit193> Oh gosh I'm terrible with reports. :/  Bug #1237059
[20:46]  * Unit193 wonders how long it'll take before it gets marked "invalid"
[20:48] <brainwash> does the report even exist?
[20:49] <Unit193> Yes, something marked it as "Private"
[20:50] <brainwash> oh, does it contain private data?
[20:52] <Unit193> Thought apport retracer was going to do something.  It has some logs which seemed fine, and a dump I didn't open.
[20:53] <brainwash> So I guess I'll wait before updating dbus :D
[20:53] <Unit193> Nooo, update and confirm! :P
[20:57] <brainwash> I better don't mess with dbus anymore
[21:14] <DJJeff> Thunar and mousepad keep freezing and locking up due to libglib2.0-0  (2.38.0)
[22:19] <bluesabre> jjfrv8: what questions do you have?
[22:38] <Unit193> brainwash: Marked https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1237059 public now, retracer took too long and nobody else was sub'd.
[22:43] <brainwash> bookmarked it (just in case I'll need it tomorrow after grabbing the dbus update)
[22:48] <brainwash> ochosi: check the last comment https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70237
[22:50] <brainwash> ochosi: it's ok for the active user to reboot/shutdown and suspend while other sessions are running, but not to hibernate
[22:52] <ochosi> brainwash: yeah, hf discussing with poettering ;)
[22:54] <brainwash> ochosi: he did change the policy for restarting almost instantly though
[22:55] <ochosi> yeah, not sure why
[22:55] <brainwash> and I still don't know why ubuntu reports that the user is not allowed to hibernate..
[22:55] <brainwash> what the heck did canonical implement?! :)
[22:56] <ochosi> i'd just ask them (=the desktop team)
[22:57] <brainwash> oh, by the way, did you find a minute or so to compile appfinder (git or with that one gdbus commit)?
[22:58] <ochosi> hm sorry not yet
[22:58] <ochosi> a mix between not having time and having forgotten about it, tbh
[22:59] <brainwash> just wait until you open the appfinder next time... the 5sec delay will remind you of this for sure :)
[23:00] <ochosi> hehe
[23:00] <ochosi> well i use the workaround currently ;)
[23:00] <ochosi> i thought it'd be more convenient to do that, and to ask nick to do a 4.11 release of appfinder asap the next time i see him online
[23:03] <brainwash> is he busy?
[23:03] <ochosi> (i thought that was what we silently agreed on)
[23:03] <ochosi> well, i guess for one he started focussing on other things in his life, which is fair enough
[23:03] <ochosi> and the other issue is he works a lot
[23:03] <ochosi> or has to
[23:04] <brainwash> hopefully he can find some time to fix this https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10395
[23:04] <brainwash> because I feel the urge to try again and debug this strange segfault
[23:08] <brainwash> it deserves to be fixed before the final release (or shortly after)
[23:09] <brainwash> desktop team -> #ubuntu-desktop ?
[23:13] <ochosi> yeah, i'd say so
[23:13] <ochosi> although not everyone in that channel might be in the team
[23:16] <knome> well most probably not.
[23:20] <ochosi> yeah, i was being sarcastic ;)
[23:41] <Unit193> ...There's a 'scroll window up' button now too? 0_o
[23:42] <ochosi> ?
[23:42] <ochosi> you mean in xfwm4?
[23:43] <Unit193> Yeah, so weird.
[23:43] <ochosi> it was always available, but it's not there by default
[23:44] <Unit193> https://www.dropbox.com/s/78vavqy4kbvdwyr/weird-buttons.png?m welp, didn't update the theme. :P
[23:47] <ochosi> every xfwm4 theme can decide/define in the theme file what buttons should be there
[23:47] <Unit193> brainwash: Dangit, looks like it's my kernel. >_<
[23:51] <brainwash> Unit193: o.o
[23:51] <brainwash> ochosi: bug 1237134