[04:12] rohan: It's only for certain Macs to work around UEFI boot issues. If your Mac boots the regular amd64 image fine, then you don't have one of the Macs that image is for. [04:40] Riddell: You might consider accepting quassel for saucy. I"ve uploaded 0.9.1 as I think it's worth pushing in even in final freeze. [04:46] Riddell: Nevermind, infinity is dealing with it. [04:54] claydoh: Are you still doing release notes? [06:11] i'm seeing quite serious issues while trying to install kubuntu using beta2 or latest ISO [06:11] *daily-latest [06:11] looks like it's failing in some partition parsing, so the installer is completely stuck after the "Prepare" step [06:11] with no indication of what's going on [06:31] i have filed a bug here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1238446 [06:31] Ubuntu bug 1238446 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity is stuck after "Prepare" step" [Undecided,New] [07:03] xnox: ^^^ does that sound familiar to you? [07:28] ScottK, xnox: i have added some more info to the report if it helps [07:41] happy frozen friday [07:47] almost frozen, 5°C this morning ;) [07:48] do you guys know if kubuntu 13.10 will use the antiquated pm-utils, or the new systemd-logind? [07:48] i see pm-utils as a depedency of kubuntu-desktop in saucy too [07:56] aren't they orthogonal to each other? logind manages logins/seats and pm-utils provides hooks for suspend/resume. [07:56] i thought systemd-logind handled the suspend/resume stuff? at least it does on fedora/arch [07:58] systemd handles suspend/resume but I don't think systemd-logind has anything to do with it [07:59] oh i see [07:59] i thought upower preferred logind for handling suspend/resume if present, at least that's what i was told in #kde [08:00] but i could be just misremembering [08:21] digiKam Software Collection 3.5.0 released... [08:21] bah i only just did 3.4 [08:21] backports for it i think [08:24] Hi Riddell, did you see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1238300 [08:24] Ubuntu bug 1238300 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "No boot menu when I started the live USB drive, only black screen" [Undecided,New] [08:25] Riddell: my kubuntu-meta upload got rejected [08:25] Riddell: because it alters image contents [08:26] however, no one updated it for active ( after PA4 was uploaded ) [08:26] should I email ubuntu-release or would you like to sneak it in? [08:27] mustafa_muhammad: hmm no, wibble [08:27] shadeslayer: just file a FFe bug no? [08:28] Riddell: dunno " Rejected by Stéphane Graber: Alteration of image content after FeatureFreeze, please at least come explain the change to the release team." [08:35] shadeslayer: yeah FFe and discuss in #ubuntu-release [08:35] fortunately there's a friendly release team member or two who will respond [08:36] Riddell: maybe close https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/1227602 [08:36] Ubuntu bug 1227602 in kubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "FFe for Plasma Active 4.0" [Medium,Triaged] [08:37] shadeslayer: yep [08:39] Riddell: and maybe delete https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/contour from saucy ? [08:39] shadeslayer: file me a bug and it's gone (I never worked out what contour was anyway) [08:40] Riddell: I don't think it's a good idea to ship active btw [08:40] because it's only introducing more issues on the desktop [08:40] I installed active last night and everything is broken [08:40] shadeslayer: how would it affect desktop? [08:40] oh yes if you install it then it messes everything [08:41] conclusion is don't install it on a desktop :) [08:41] yep [08:41] but people will install it on a desktop :P [08:41] because it's available [08:41] put a big warning in the description if you want but it's clearly intended for tablets [08:41] *we* made this horrible beast be installable on the desktop xD [08:42] do you think people read descriptions ^_^ [08:42] they go "Oooh plasma-active packages! lets try them on the desktop" leading to a broken desktop [08:43] Riddell: why not provide them from the kubuntu active PPA [08:43] and have a warning there [08:48] Riddell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/1238540 [08:48] Ubuntu bug 1238540 in kubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "kubuntu-active meta package depends on non existent contour packages" [Undecided,New] [08:48] * shadeslayer changes description a bit [08:49] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/contour/+bug/1237854 [08:49] Ubuntu bug 1237854 in contour (Ubuntu) "Countour package has duplicate files, Kubuntu-Active metapackage not installable" [Undecided,New] [08:49] good stuff [08:58] shadeslayer: because ideally we'd like working plasma active installable images which need to be made from the ubuntu archive [09:12] Riddell: could you accept plasma-mobile? [09:12] just uploaded it [09:15] * Riddell looks [09:15] morning friends of kubuntu ;) i just saw somone mention networkmanager. it disappeared completely for me just now after the latest 13.10 update. [09:16] shadeslayer: accepted! [09:16] cool [09:23] benvantende, same for me [09:23] though im using cable connection atm not wifi [09:24] soee luckily yea good ol' wire works for me too [09:24] soee it is weird because everything is installed and seems to be running [09:25] soee but there is no aoption anymore to add it in System Tray Settings [09:25] yeah i know :) [09:25] soee just to make sure we are on the same page ;) [09:26] uesterday all worked fine, and as you said after lates NM updates [09:26] its gone [09:31] shadeslayer: whatever you did to plasma-nm yesterday seems to have gone wrong... [09:31] oh? [09:31] I just added a transitional package, what happened? [09:31] there's no network management anymore in the system tray widget settings [09:32] * yofel is sad anyway because he was still using the old applet :( [09:32] ah damnit [09:32] I thought we were dropping networkmanagement [09:33] which is why we needed a transitional package [09:33] see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plasma-nm/+bug/1234068 [09:33] Ubuntu bug 1234068 in plasma-nm (Ubuntu) "add transitional package from networkmanagement" [High,Fix released] [09:34] so, what do we do ... hmm [09:34] revert? [09:35] rather try to find out what happend [09:35] well I get what happened [09:35] I think people can live with the new applet even if it's ugly, as long as it works [09:36] I added plasma-widget-networkmanagement that depends on plasma-nm and that overrides the one with the actual files [09:37] but now that I think about it more, why do we need a transitional package :S [09:37] we don't... [09:37] so why did apachelogger file that bug :S [09:38] Just upgraded and even the plasma-nm package is now empty. Not just the new transitional package. [09:38] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plasma-nm/+bug/1238221 [09:38] o_O [09:38] Ubuntu bug 1238221 in plasma-nm (Ubuntu) "plasma-nm 0.9.3.0-0ubuntu3 is missing the program" [Undecided,Confirmed] [09:38] shadeslayer would removing the trans package solve the problem of not have nm at all [09:38] I think shipping both isn't sensible, especially since they have exactly the same name [09:39] ffffuuuuuuuu [09:39] I broke it [09:39] oh lol, I see what happened [09:39] yeah [09:39] silly mistake [09:39] oops [09:40] that's what you get for not test building, and not having install files [09:40] so what do we do [09:40] add install file and upload [09:40] I am totally unsure whether to keep networkmanagement or not [09:40] may the old NM applet rest in peace [09:40] it's unsupported upstream anyway [09:40] yofel: can you file a removal request for that [09:40] oh [09:41] awesome [09:41] we can kill it then [09:41] (at least AFAIR) [09:42] Riddell: kubuntu-meta uploaded [09:42] plz review before accepting [09:43] Riddell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/contour/+bug/1238568 [09:43] Ubuntu bug 1238568 in contour (Ubuntu) "Please remove contour from the archive" [Undecided,New] [09:46] removed! accepted! [09:46] heh [09:47] Good morning. [09:48] Riddell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/networkmanagement/+bug/1234055 [09:48] Ubuntu bug 1234055 in networkmanagement (Ubuntu) "please remove networkmanagement source and binary from archive" [Medium,Fix released] [09:48] shadeslayer: what about it? [09:48] aha so deleted [09:48] yep [09:48] I could see it in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/networkmanagement [09:49] so I was wondering wth? [09:49] not for saucy [09:49] right [09:49] d_ed didn't make strong enough tea [09:49] ah he's in Cataonia? [09:49] yep [09:49] sitting right next to me [09:50] wave an independence flag at him just to wind him up :) [09:50] we don't have any [09:50] he's also using Arch now [09:50] I'm yet to work out the attraction of arch, I should probably take a look sometime [09:51] some silly stuff like "OMG we ship headers" [10:01] Riddell: plasma-nm with fix for 1238221 uploaded [10:04] benvantende: thanks for the report, I've uploaded the fix, and it'll get to you once Riddell approves the fix [10:05] bug 1238221 [10:05] bug 1238221 in plasma-nm (Ubuntu) "plasma-nm 0.9.3.0-0ubuntu3 is missing the program" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1238221 [10:05] tHNx shadeslayer you guys rock!! [10:05] thanks for catching my stupid mistake ;) [10:05] accepted! [10:06] awesome [10:09] argu [10:09] could have fixed this as well https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plasma-nm/+bug/1230198 [10:09] Ubuntu bug 1230198 in plasma-nm (Ubuntu) "[upstream fix] Cannot add static routes on OpenVPN connections" [Low,Triaged] [10:13] hm, maybe when they do a release, we can SRU [10:29] Riddell: yofel would it make sense to push a fix that drops pm-utils and uses logind to suspend stuff so late in the cycle? [10:29] shadeslayer: yeah I think it would [10:29] after final freeze? no? [10:29] really? [10:29] shadeslayer: pm-utils doesn't get used as far as I know [10:29] Riddell: it does afaict [10:29] it does right now [10:29] oh? [10:29] yes [10:30] someone patched upower to use it IIRC [10:30] well leave it then, don't play with fragile thing [10:30] yeah [10:30] but afiestas_ and I debugged it last night [10:30] and basically upower is fscked [10:31] and solid goes "version of systemd?" , ubuntu goes "fuck you", solid goes "falling back to upower", upower goes kaput [10:31] and then somehow pm-utils suspends stuff [10:31] that's partly correct [10:32] what's wrong there ? :) [10:33] upower goes kaput - should be "always_use_pm-utils_backend.patch" [10:36] ahhhh [10:36] so upower always defaults to using pm-utils [10:36] but it doesn't work since I removed pm-utils [10:37] I think the logind backend actually does work in ubuntu with systemd-shim, but nobody bothered to really verify it and simply patched the support out [10:37] well if I call the suspend method in logind it works [10:42] yofel, shadeslayer: actually we do, unless a user has kubuntu-desktop there is no relationship chain that would pull in plasma-nm when networkmanagement is removed [10:42] apachelogger: right [10:42] good point [10:43] if the card/bug whatever did not mention the rationale then I am sorry for that, must have forgotten :P [10:43] it did [10:43] I understood that part [10:43] I just thought that networkmanagement hadn't been removed [10:57] Hey folks [10:58] anyone got ideas for a name for a kubuntu blog? [10:58] in the spirit of omg ubuntu [11:01] the kde network-manager doesn't seem to exist as a gui for the panel , it shows as installed and it's workng, but i need it for other networking apps that require a gui settings dialog [11:02] font end in other words [11:03] just did a daily clean insttall to both / and /home [11:12] BluesKaj_: there was an error in the last upload, see if there's a new version of plasma-nm to install [11:15] Riddell. ok , checking [11:18] Riddell. plasma-nm is installed , but it doesn't show in the panel widgets search [11:21] BluesKaj_: is anything in the package? dpkg -L plasma-nm [11:22] lp = KDTLaunchpad.login_with(credentials_file=options.credentials_file, version="devel") [11:22] TypeError: login_with() got an unexpected keyword argument 'version' [11:22] oh eh [11:22] yofel: didn't we have compat for 12.04? [11:23] *blink* [11:23] oh it's using the wrong one [11:23] god do I hate python modules [11:23] how do you set the python lib path again? [11:24] Riddell. yes it lists the locations [11:24] export PYTHONPATH=foo [11:24] rhz [11:24] thx [11:26] BluesKaj_: do you have /usr/lib/libplasmanm-internal.so ? [11:26] that seems to have done the trick \o/ [11:28] Will the docs really live on the wiki from now on? I mean, really really? [11:30] yes [11:30] Riddell. no , just some /usr/share/doc files [11:30] Riddell: shadeslayer broke the package yesterday [11:30] supposedly he forgot the .install file [11:30] so both the transitional and the actual package were empty [11:30] apachelogger: That may work for the English docs, but what about localization? [11:30] BluesKaj_: right, wait for the new package [11:31] friti: the export will go into launchpad to be translated is my plan [11:31] friti: I don't know, ask whoever decided that we should use moinmoin [11:31] Riddell: that's incoherent [11:31] Riddell , ok , wait it is [11:31] then you'd go wiki -> launchpad -> wiki [11:31] because otherwise help.kubuntu is worthless unless one speaks english [11:32] and then people will complain again about how we are english elitists etc. :P [11:33] keeping all that in mind translation must happen in the wiki [11:33] for which there is no architecture with moinmoin that we know abut [11:34] Suggestion, based on Riddell's model : Wiki (en) > LP > Wiki where the translated entry/enries will live in page/lang. For example http://wiki.kubuntu.org/Welcome/nl_NL [11:34] why go through LP at all? [11:34] Because LP works well for the translating process. [11:35] not documentations [11:35] wiki -> LP -> package/docs.kubuntu.org [11:35] that's madness [11:35] start using mediawiki [11:35] solves all problems [11:36] it's an idea [11:36] I wish the idea came BEFORE the docs were moved off of LP [11:36] but as I said during KDS or UDS or whatever it was .... ultimately someone needs to talk to upstream [11:36] because upstream is not too happy with docbook either [11:36] so synergies should be made use of [11:37] not that we end up with translation architecture X and upstream with Y and then everything is terrible and unmaintained [11:37] friti: the idea is as old as the idea of moving docs to a wiki [11:38] it's just that no one takes me serious [11:38] Well, as it stands now, Saucy will ship without a localized kubuntu-docs, and that does not show great foresight. [11:40] it's not ideal but it's better than no docs in my opinion, more help always needed [11:40] I am reasonable certain there never was any release that actually had localized docs in the release image :P [11:42] I think nixternal did a few [11:43] I think it would be preferable to have the docs from oneiric included than to have no localized docs at all. There are many users who barely know how to introduce themselves in English, let alone read documentation in English. [11:47] friti: that's implying that the quantal docs had localization [11:48] they didn't [11:48] although some teams did transate it in launchpad, it never got used, which is a shame [11:48] well, in all fairness, they did on launchpad :P [11:49] I have been working on them two days ago (en > nl), until i found out that the docs were moved away from LP. But if i were to know for sure that the Oneiric translations would get used, i would continue to work on them for the next few weeks. [11:49] *would get used to base the newer docs off of [11:50] oneiric is irrelevant, content-wise [11:50] quantal also barely manages to stay relevant [11:50] Not entirely. There are sections that are still fully relevant [11:51] and tehre are section that are utterly useless [11:51] Examples? [11:51] oneiric had a different package manager, quantal had a different package manager. [11:52] printing is different since (I think quantal) and I doubt that the docs were updated for that [11:52] Those small changes do not invalidate the docs package as a whole [11:53] small? installing and managing the software on one's system is small? Oo [11:53] To the system, those changes were anything but small, but as far as the docs go, it is [11:54] ok [11:55] we are not going to ship outdated documentation. [11:59] shadeslayer: hmm [11:59] I am not saying that you should. Update the docs, but do not discard the entire package because a few chapters are no longer accurate. Updating the docs should be easy enough, but it just needs to be done. and then it can be shipped. [11:59] shadeslayer: do you have any use of the three ec2 machines you launched in june running in tokyo? [12:00] friti: the old docs package was a nightmare to maintain, such that it caused people who were maintaining it to get divorced and have mental breakdowns [12:00] friti: we are a week from release. changing docs at this point is not an option. [12:03] Well, localized docs are an essential part of Kubuntu, it is a determining factor in the perception of user-friendliness for new(er) users. Especially for non--English speakers. [12:06] Yes! but what am I supposed to do a week from release? [12:07] friti. perhaps you can help [12:07] we do not even have the automation to pull documentations from launchpad and into a package, or at least no one ever bothered to mention it [12:07] which is why quantal documentations are actually not localized in terms of packaging [12:08] the documentation l10n in saucy is not going to be any more broken than it was before, however now there is a real opportunity to get it fixed in a scalable fashion and at the same time align our documentation procedure with what upstream may want to do in the future [12:10] I still say that a new system should have been ready to take its place before scrapping the old. The way it's done now is way messy and will leave users and translation teams hanging until a new system has been decided upon and implemented. It's all very very sloppy. [12:11] (forgot the documenters, i should have mentioned them too) [12:13] Riddell: o_o [12:13] you are not reading me... it is exactly as it was before [12:13] Riddell: please kill all of them [12:14] Riddell: also, maybe we can have a script that kills all machines running for more than 3 days? [12:21] shadeslayer: yes please (although it should be just an e-mail rather than killing them and it needs to check all regions which I don't) [12:22] okay [12:22] Riddell: how much did those machines cost us :S [12:23] shadeslayer: $lots [12:23] :( [12:23] $60 this month so far [12:40] shadeslayer: daily e-mail setup to go to me [12:40] oh you already wrote the script ? :D [12:40] just running euca-describe-instances [12:41] the faffy bit is finding a server to run it on (our docs server can't send out e-mails) and setting up the access keys === ghostcube is now known as Guest46159 [12:44] Riddell: Can't the docs server send email using another smtp server using something like msmtp. That is how I send email from my server. [12:44] lordievader: I'd just rather it wasn't able to at all so there's no danger of it being a spam host [12:45] Right, makes sense. [12:49] Riddell: I was looking for a way to programatically get all the instances via go [12:50] and then send an email [12:50] but meh [12:50] no SDK for GoLang [12:56] shadeslayer: whyever with Go? [12:56] because it's awesome ! [12:56] mm hmm [12:56] I just like Go over Python right now [12:56] though it has a GC ... which isn't something I like [12:57] * shadeslayer starts implementing jockey support thingy in s-p-k [12:58] shadeslayer++ [12:59] shadeslayer: you ok to lead the testing and release next week? [12:59] teo [12:59] erm [12:59] yep [12:59] ScottK: you ok to sign off on release next week? [12:59] shadeslayer: doing release notes and announcement too? [12:59] skeat is a useful person to get that started [13:00] yep, will be available from 10 AM CEST to 9 PM CEST [13:00] shadeslayer: no arm images, no powerpc images, you'll also need to decide if plasma-active should be released. [13:00] Riddell: IMHO it shouldn't [13:00] very broken [13:00] still time to fix :) [13:00] I tried to, the dbus fix doesn't work [13:01] fooey [13:01] then give up on it I guess [13:01] all I get is a black screen [13:01] though better than a white screen xD [13:02] Or a blue one ;) [13:03] Riddell: I can try and get the release notes and announcement together, but will need some help :) [13:04] shadeslayer: you've got smartboyhw at your disposal [13:05] indeed [13:05] shadeslayer: announcement is just the beta 2 announce updated and copied onto the website [13:07] okay [13:08] * apachelogger thinks shadeslayer finally has a reason to blog :P [13:08] drat [13:09] apachelogger: want to take a look at startactive? [13:15] what's to be looked at? [13:15] today is phonon week, stop stealing work time from phonon week -.- [13:19] Riddell. ok got the NM widget in the panel , thanks [13:20] apachelogger: active doesn't startup? [13:20] did contour get the boot yet? [13:20] hmm i had some updates, and wanted to add them and i have: /var/cache/apt/archives/kipi-plugins_4%3a3.4.0-1ubuntu1_amd64.deb [13:20] trying to overwrite '/usr/share/kde4/config.kcfg/photolayoutseditor.kcfg', which is also in package digikam 4:3.3.0-0ubuntu1 [13:21] apachelogger: yes [13:21] ok [13:21] soee: bah [13:21] shadeslayer: okidoki nm fixed wireless up and running again! tHNx [13:21] awesome [13:24] soee: fix uploaded thanks [13:25] soee: sudo dpkg --install --force-overwrite /var/cache/apt/archives/kipi-plugins_4%3a3.4.0-1ubuntu1_amd64.deb [13:34] Riddell: Yes. Who's doing release notes? [13:37] ScottK: shadeslayer and smartboyhw [13:37] OK. [13:37] Thanks. [13:37] I'm going to be away this weekend and I'll be in hospital first thing on monday so last chance for any questions to me [13:37] (assuming the operation goes ahead, these things are often cancelled) [13:38] ScottK: would you be around to approve uploads if the need be? [13:39] if not should I just ask in #ubuntu-release? [13:39] shadeslayer: Off and on. Ask in #u-r and I'll react if I'm available. [13:48] Riddell: apachelogger thoughts on implementing the driver stuff in the same kcm category as "About System" ? ( Seems like a better place to put it ) [13:48] as opposed to s-p-k [13:48] s-p-k? [13:48] software-properties-kde [13:48] Ah. [13:48] shadeslayer: yes, but the thing is that spk core has the codez to manage that rubbish [13:48] Riddell, thanks [13:48] so no clue how practical it is to separate things [13:49] We do need to get off of using Jockey and start using ubuntu-drivers (or whatever it's called) as a back end. [13:49] AIUI, we're the only remaining user of Jockey, so it's totally unmaintained. [13:49] ScottK: and that's what I'm fixing [13:49] shadeslayer: Excellent. [13:49] apachelogger: well, there's a softwareproperties python3 module [13:52] shadeslayer: yeah, keep it simple and just translate the gtk code to qt I'd say [13:52] shadeslayer: about system is informational so it doesn't make sense to have the code there [13:53] Riddell: sure, but it won't be a tab under about distro, it'll be another entry in the side list [13:53] like in Account Details has a list on the side [13:53] I'd rather it was in muon, that's where software installation is [13:54] true [13:54] it's not installation [13:54] it's not? [13:54] not from a perception POV [13:55] it's driver management [13:55] you're installing drivers -> installation? [13:55] that happens to be able to install drivers and drirvers are software [13:55] shadeslayer: no, you are managing drivers [13:55] I see [13:56] you could just as well have combobox selecting the video driver you want to use [13:56] (*) nvidia [13:56] ( ) nv [13:56] ( ) rubbish [13:56] apachelogger: but my system has a bunch of other stuff [13:56] like broadcom wifi drivers [13:56] yes [13:56] you could also have a combobox for the wifi driver :P [13:57] my point is.. you are manging what driver ought to be used, not what driver is installed [13:57] *nod* [13:57] apachelogger: and putting it under the same category as "About System" is fine with you? [13:57] about-distro has a category? [13:58] system administration? [14:00] X-KDE-System-Settings-Parent-Category is what I was talking about [14:00] yeah [14:01] for eg : X-KDE-System-Settings-Parent-Category="About System" , then have about-distro and the driver manager under there [14:05] not so sure about that TBH [14:05] gnome does it that way for 3d settings IIRC [14:05] didn't seem particularly obvious to me [14:05] shadeslayer: maybe discuss on lsit [14:05]