[04:12] <ScottK> rohan: It's only for certain Macs to work around UEFI boot issues.  If your Mac boots the regular amd64 image fine, then you don't have one of the Macs that image is for.
[04:40] <ScottK> Riddell: You might consider accepting quassel for saucy.  I"ve uploaded 0.9.1 as I think it's worth pushing in even in final freeze.
[04:46] <ScottK> Riddell: Nevermind, infinity is dealing with it.
[04:54] <ScottK> claydoh: Are you still doing release notes?
[06:11] <Guest3903> i'm seeing quite serious issues while trying to install kubuntu using beta2 or latest ISO 
[06:11] <Guest3903> *daily-latest
[06:11] <Guest3903> looks like it's failing in some partition parsing, so the installer is completely stuck after the "Prepare" step 
[06:11] <Guest3903> with no indication of what's going on 
[06:31] <Guest3903> i have filed a bug here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1238446
[07:03] <ScottK> xnox: ^^^ does that sound familiar to you?
[07:28] <Guest3903> ScottK, xnox: i have added some more info to the report if it helps 
[07:41] <Riddell> happy frozen friday 
[07:47] <debfx> almost frozen, 5°C this morning ;)
[07:48] <Guest3903> do you guys know if kubuntu 13.10 will use the antiquated pm-utils, or the new systemd-logind? 
[07:48] <Guest3903> i see pm-utils as a depedency of kubuntu-desktop in saucy too 
[07:56] <debfx> aren't they orthogonal to each other? logind manages logins/seats and pm-utils provides hooks for suspend/resume.
[07:56] <Guest3903> i thought systemd-logind handled the suspend/resume stuff? at least it does on fedora/arch
[07:58] <debfx> systemd handles suspend/resume but I don't think systemd-logind has anything to do with it
[07:59] <Guest3903> oh i see 
[07:59] <Guest3903> i thought upower preferred logind for handling suspend/resume if present, at least that's what i was told in #kde 
[08:00] <Guest3903> but i could be just misremembering 
[08:21] <Riddell> digiKam Software Collection 3.5.0 released...
[08:21] <Riddell> bah i only just did 3.4
[08:21] <Riddell> backports for it i think
[08:24] <mustafa_muhammad> Hi Riddell, did you see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1238300
[08:25] <shadeslayer> Riddell: my kubuntu-meta upload got rejected
[08:25] <shadeslayer> Riddell: because it alters image contents
[08:26] <shadeslayer> however, no one updated it for active ( after PA4 was uploaded )
[08:26] <shadeslayer> should I email ubuntu-release or would you like to sneak it in?
[08:27] <Riddell> mustafa_muhammad: hmm no, wibble
[08:27] <Riddell> shadeslayer: just file a FFe bug no?
[08:28] <shadeslayer> Riddell: dunno " Rejected by Stéphane Graber: Alteration of image content after FeatureFreeze, please at least come explain the change to the release team."
[08:35] <Riddell> shadeslayer: yeah FFe and discuss in #ubuntu-release
[08:35] <Riddell> fortunately there's a friendly release team member or two who will respond
[08:36] <shadeslayer> Riddell: maybe close https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/1227602
[08:37] <Riddell> shadeslayer: yep
[08:39] <shadeslayer> Riddell: and maybe delete https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/contour from saucy ?
[08:39] <Riddell> shadeslayer: file me a bug and it's gone (I never worked out what contour was anyway)
[08:40] <shadeslayer> Riddell: I don't think it's a good idea to ship active btw
[08:40] <shadeslayer> because it's only introducing more issues on the desktop
[08:40] <shadeslayer> I installed active last night and everything is broken
[08:40] <Riddell> shadeslayer: how would it affect desktop?
[08:40] <Riddell> oh yes if you install it then it messes everything
[08:41] <Riddell> conclusion is don't install it on a desktop :)
[08:41] <shadeslayer> yep
[08:41] <shadeslayer> but people will install it on a desktop :P
[08:41] <shadeslayer> because it's available
[08:41] <Riddell> put a big warning in the description if you want but it's clearly intended for tablets
[08:41] <shadeslayer> *we* made this horrible beast be installable on the desktop xD
[08:42] <shadeslayer> do you think people read descriptions ^_^
[08:42] <shadeslayer> they go "Oooh plasma-active packages! lets try them on the desktop" leading to a broken desktop
[08:43] <shadeslayer> Riddell: why not provide them from the kubuntu active PPA
[08:43] <shadeslayer> and have a warning there
[08:48] <shadeslayer> Riddell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/1238540
[08:48]  * shadeslayer changes description a bit
[08:49] <shadeslayer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/contour/+bug/1237854
[08:49] <shadeslayer> good stuff
[08:58] <Riddell> shadeslayer: because ideally we'd like working plasma active installable images which need to be made from the ubuntu archive
[09:12] <shadeslayer> Riddell: could you accept plasma-mobile?
[09:12] <shadeslayer> just uploaded it
[09:15]  * Riddell looks
[09:15] <benvantende> morning friends of kubuntu ;) i just saw somone mention networkmanager. it disappeared completely for me just now after the latest 13.10 update. 
[09:16] <Riddell> shadeslayer: accepted!
[09:16] <shadeslayer> cool
[09:23] <soee> benvantende, same for me
[09:23] <soee> though im using cable connection atm not wifi
[09:24] <benvantende> soee luckily yea good ol' wire works for me too 
[09:24] <benvantende> soee it is weird because everything is installed and seems to be running
[09:25] <benvantende> soee but there is no aoption anymore to add it  in System Tray Settings
[09:25] <soee> yeah i know :)
[09:25] <benvantende> soee just to make sure we are on the same page ;)
[09:26] <soee> uesterday all worked fine, and as you said after lates NM updates
[09:26] <soee> its gone
[09:31] <yofel> shadeslayer: whatever you did to plasma-nm yesterday seems to have gone wrong...
[09:31] <shadeslayer> oh?
[09:31] <shadeslayer> I just added a transitional package, what happened?
[09:31] <yofel> there's no network management anymore in the system tray widget settings
[09:32]  * yofel is sad anyway because he was still using the old applet :(
[09:32] <shadeslayer> ah damnit
[09:32] <shadeslayer> I thought we were dropping networkmanagement
[09:33] <shadeslayer> which is why we needed a transitional package
[09:33] <shadeslayer> see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plasma-nm/+bug/1234068
[09:34] <shadeslayer> so, what do we do ... hmm
[09:34] <shadeslayer> revert?
[09:35] <yofel> rather try to find out what happend
[09:35] <shadeslayer> well I get what happened
[09:35] <yofel> I think people can live with the new applet even if it's ugly, as long as it works
[09:36] <shadeslayer> I added plasma-widget-networkmanagement that depends on plasma-nm and that overrides the one with the actual files
[09:37] <shadeslayer> but now that I think about it more, why do we need a transitional package :S
[09:37] <yofel> we don't...
[09:37] <shadeslayer> so why did apachelogger file that bug :S
[09:38] <razor_> Just upgraded and even the plasma-nm package is now empty. Not just the new transitional package.
[09:38] <razor_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plasma-nm/+bug/1238221
[09:38] <shadeslayer> o_O
[09:38] <benvantende> shadeslayer would removing the trans package solve the problem of not have nm at all 
[09:38] <debfx> I think shipping both isn't sensible, especially since they have exactly the same name
[09:39] <shadeslayer> ffffuuuuuuuu
[09:39] <shadeslayer> I broke it
[09:39] <yofel> oh lol, I see what happened
[09:39] <shadeslayer> yeah
[09:39] <shadeslayer> silly mistake
[09:39] <benvantende> oops
[09:40] <shadeslayer> that's what you get for not test building, and not having install files
[09:40] <shadeslayer> so what do we do
[09:40] <yofel> add install file and upload
[09:40] <shadeslayer> I am totally unsure whether to keep networkmanagement or not
[09:40] <yofel> may the old NM applet rest in peace
[09:40] <yofel> it's unsupported upstream anyway
[09:40] <shadeslayer> yofel: can you file a removal request for that
[09:40] <shadeslayer> oh
[09:41] <shadeslayer> awesome
[09:41] <shadeslayer> we can kill it then
[09:41] <yofel> (at least AFAIR)
[09:42] <shadeslayer> Riddell: kubuntu-meta uploaded
[09:42] <shadeslayer> plz review before accepting
[09:43] <shadeslayer> Riddell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/contour/+bug/1238568
[09:46] <Riddell> removed!  accepted!
[09:46] <shadeslayer> heh
[09:47] <lordievader> Good morning.
[09:48] <shadeslayer> Riddell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/networkmanagement/+bug/1234055
[09:48] <Riddell> shadeslayer: what about it?
[09:48] <shadeslayer> aha so deleted
[09:48] <Riddell> yep
[09:48] <shadeslayer> I could see it in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/networkmanagement
[09:49] <shadeslayer> so I was wondering wth?
[09:49] <Riddell> not for saucy
[09:49] <shadeslayer> right
[09:49] <shadeslayer> d_ed didn't make strong enough tea
[09:49] <Riddell> ah he's in Cataonia?
[09:49] <shadeslayer> yep
[09:49] <shadeslayer> sitting right next to me
[09:50] <Riddell> wave an independence flag at him just to wind him up :)
[09:50] <shadeslayer> we don't have any
[09:50] <shadeslayer> he's also using Arch now
[09:50] <Riddell> I'm yet to work out the attraction of arch, I should probably take a look sometime
[09:51] <shadeslayer> some silly stuff like "OMG we ship headers"
[10:01] <shadeslayer> Riddell: plasma-nm with fix for 1238221 uploaded
[10:04] <shadeslayer> benvantende: thanks for the report, I've uploaded the fix, and it'll get to you once Riddell approves the fix
[10:05] <Riddell> bug 1238221
[10:05] <benvantende> tHNx shadeslayer you guys rock!!
[10:05] <shadeslayer> thanks for catching my stupid mistake ;)
[10:05] <Riddell> accepted!
[10:06] <shadeslayer> awesome
[10:09] <shadeslayer> argu
[10:09] <shadeslayer> could have fixed this as well https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plasma-nm/+bug/1230198
[10:13] <shadeslayer> hm, maybe when they do a release, we can SRU
[10:29] <shadeslayer> Riddell: yofel would it make sense to push a fix that drops pm-utils and uses logind to suspend stuff so late in the cycle?
[10:29] <Riddell> shadeslayer: yeah I think it would
[10:29] <yofel> after final freeze? no?
[10:29] <yofel> really?
[10:29] <Riddell> shadeslayer: pm-utils doesn't get used as far as I know
[10:29] <shadeslayer> Riddell: it does afaict
[10:29] <yofel> it does right now
[10:29] <Riddell> oh?
[10:29] <shadeslayer> yes
[10:30] <yofel> someone patched upower to use it IIRC
[10:30] <Riddell> well leave it then, don't play with fragile thing
[10:30] <shadeslayer> yeah
[10:30] <shadeslayer> but afiestas_ and I debugged it last night
[10:30] <shadeslayer> and basically upower is fscked
[10:31] <shadeslayer> and solid goes "version of systemd?" , ubuntu goes "fuck you", solid goes "falling back to upower", upower goes kaput
[10:31] <shadeslayer> and then somehow pm-utils suspends stuff
[10:31] <yofel> that's partly correct
[10:32] <shadeslayer> what's wrong there  ? :)
[10:33] <yofel> upower goes kaput - should be "always_use_pm-utils_backend.patch"
[10:36] <shadeslayer> ahhhh
[10:36] <shadeslayer> so upower always defaults to using pm-utils
[10:36] <shadeslayer> but it doesn't work since I removed pm-utils
[10:37] <yofel> I think the logind backend actually does work in ubuntu with systemd-shim, but nobody bothered to really verify it and simply patched the support out
[10:37] <shadeslayer> well if I call the suspend method in logind it works
[10:42] <apachelogger> yofel, shadeslayer: actually we do, unless a user has kubuntu-desktop there is no relationship chain that would pull in plasma-nm when networkmanagement is removed
[10:42] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: right
[10:42] <yofel> good point
[10:43] <apachelogger> if the card/bug whatever did not mention the rationale then I am sorry for that, must have forgotten :P
[10:43] <shadeslayer> it did
[10:43] <shadeslayer> I understood that part
[10:43] <shadeslayer> I just thought that networkmanagement hadn't been removed
[10:57] <BluesKaj_> Hey folks
[10:58] <Riddell> anyone got ideas for a name for a kubuntu blog?
[10:58] <Riddell> in the spirit of omg ubuntu
[11:01] <BluesKaj_> the kde network-manager doesn't seem to exist as a gui for the panel , it shows as installed and it's workng, but i need it for other networking apps that require a gui settings dialog 
[11:02] <BluesKaj_> font end in other words
[11:03] <BluesKaj_> just did a daily clean insttall to both / and /home
[11:12] <Riddell> BluesKaj_: there was an error in the last upload, see if there's a new version of plasma-nm to install
[11:15] <BluesKaj_> Riddell. ok , checking
[11:18] <BluesKaj_> Riddell. plasma-nm is installed , but it doesn't show in the panel widgets search
[11:21] <Riddell> BluesKaj_: is anything in the package?  dpkg -L plasma-nm
[11:22] <apachelogger>     lp = KDTLaunchpad.login_with(credentials_file=options.credentials_file, version="devel")
[11:22] <apachelogger> TypeError: login_with() got an unexpected keyword argument 'version'
[11:22] <apachelogger> oh eh
[11:22] <apachelogger> yofel: didn't we have compat for 12.04?
[11:23] <yofel> *blink*
[11:23] <apachelogger> oh it's using the wrong one
[11:23] <apachelogger> god do I hate python modules
[11:23] <apachelogger> how do you set the python lib path again?
[11:24] <BluesKaj_> Riddell. yes it lists the locations
[11:24] <yofel> export PYTHONPATH=foo
[11:24] <apachelogger> rhz
[11:24] <apachelogger> thx
[11:26] <Riddell> BluesKaj_: do you have /usr/lib/libplasmanm-internal.so ?
[11:26] <apachelogger> that seems to have done the trick \o/
[11:28] <friti> Will the docs really live on the wiki from now on? I mean, really really?
[11:30] <apachelogger> yes
[11:30] <BluesKaj_> Riddell. no , just some /usr/share/doc files
[11:30] <apachelogger> Riddell: shadeslayer broke the package yesterday
[11:30] <apachelogger> supposedly he forgot the .install file
[11:30] <apachelogger> so both the transitional and the actual package were empty
[11:30] <friti> apachelogger: That may work for the English docs, but what about localization?
[11:30] <Riddell> BluesKaj_: right, wait for the new package
[11:31] <Riddell> friti: the export will go into launchpad to be translated is my plan
[11:31] <apachelogger> friti: I don't know, ask whoever decided that we should use moinmoin
[11:31] <apachelogger> Riddell: that's incoherent
[11:31] <BluesKaj_> Riddell , ok , wait it is 
[11:31] <apachelogger> then you'd go wiki -> launchpad -> wiki
[11:31] <apachelogger> because otherwise help.kubuntu is worthless unless one speaks english
[11:32] <apachelogger> and then people will complain again about how we are english elitists etc. :P
[11:33] <apachelogger> keeping all that in mind translation must happen in the wiki
[11:33] <apachelogger> for which there is no architecture with moinmoin that we know abut
[11:34] <friti> Suggestion, based on Riddell's model : Wiki (en) > LP > Wiki where the translated entry/enries will live in page/lang. For example http://wiki.kubuntu.org/Welcome/nl_NL
[11:34] <apachelogger> why go through LP at all?
[11:34] <friti> Because LP works well for the translating process.
[11:35] <apachelogger> not documentations
[11:35] <Riddell> wiki -> LP -> package/docs.kubuntu.org
[11:35] <apachelogger> that's madness
[11:35] <apachelogger> start using mediawiki
[11:35] <apachelogger> solves all problems
[11:36] <Riddell> it's an idea
[11:36] <friti> I wish the idea came BEFORE the docs were moved off of LP
[11:36] <apachelogger> but as I said during KDS or UDS or whatever it was .... ultimately someone needs to talk to upstream
[11:36] <apachelogger> because upstream is not too happy with docbook either
[11:36] <apachelogger> so synergies should be made use of
[11:37] <apachelogger> not that we end up with translation architecture X and upstream with Y and then everything is terrible and unmaintained
[11:37] <apachelogger> friti: the idea is as old as the idea of moving docs to a wiki
[11:38] <apachelogger> it's just that no one takes me serious
[11:38] <friti> Well, as it stands now, Saucy will ship without a localized kubuntu-docs, and that does not show great foresight.
[11:40] <Riddell> it's not ideal but it's better than no docs in my opinion, more help always needed
[11:40] <apachelogger> I am reasonable certain there never was any release that actually had localized docs in the release image :P
[11:42] <Riddell> I think nixternal did a few
[11:43] <friti> I think it would be preferable to have the docs from oneiric included than to have no localized docs at all. There are many users who barely know how to introduce themselves in English, let alone read documentation in English.
[11:47] <apachelogger> friti: that's implying that the quantal docs had localization
[11:48] <Riddell> they didn't
[11:48] <Riddell> although some teams did transate it in launchpad, it never got used, which is a shame
[11:48] <apachelogger> well, in all fairness, they did on launchpad :P
[11:49] <friti> I have been working on them two days ago (en > nl), until i found out that the docs were moved away from LP. But if i were to know for sure that the Oneiric translations would get used, i would continue to work on them for the next few weeks.
[11:49] <friti> *would get used to base the newer docs off of
[11:50] <apachelogger> oneiric is irrelevant, content-wise
[11:50] <apachelogger> quantal also barely manages to stay relevant
[11:50] <friti> Not entirely. There are sections that are still fully relevant
[11:51] <apachelogger> and tehre are section that are utterly useless
[11:51] <friti> Examples?
[11:51] <apachelogger> oneiric had a different package manager, quantal had a different package manager.
[11:52] <apachelogger> printing is different since (I think quantal) and I doubt that the docs were updated for that
[11:52] <friti> Those small changes do not invalidate the docs package as a whole
[11:53] <apachelogger> small? installing and managing the software on one's system is small? Oo
[11:53] <friti> To the system, those changes were anything but small, but as far as the docs go, it is
[11:54] <apachelogger> ok
[11:55] <apachelogger> we are not going to ship outdated documentation.
[11:59] <Riddell> shadeslayer: hmm
[11:59] <friti> I am not saying that you should. Update the docs, but do not discard the entire package because a few chapters are no longer accurate. Updating the docs should be easy enough, but it just needs to be done. and then it can be shipped.
[11:59] <Riddell> shadeslayer: do you have any use of the three ec2 machines you launched in june running in tokyo?
[12:00] <Riddell> friti: the old docs package was a nightmare to maintain, such that it caused people who were maintaining it to get divorced and have mental breakdowns
[12:00] <apachelogger> friti: we are a week from release. changing docs at this point is not an option.
[12:03] <friti> Well, localized docs are an essential part of Kubuntu, it is a determining factor in the perception of user-friendliness for new(er) users. Especially for non--English speakers.
[12:06] <apachelogger> Yes! but what am I supposed to do a week from release?
[12:07] <BluesKaj_> friti. perhaps you can help 
[12:07] <apachelogger> we do not even have the automation to pull documentations from launchpad and into a package, or at least no one ever bothered to mention it
[12:07] <apachelogger> which is why quantal documentations are actually not localized in terms of packaging
[12:08] <apachelogger> the documentation l10n in saucy is not going to be any more broken than it was before, however now there is a real opportunity to get it fixed in a scalable fashion and at the same time align our documentation procedure with what upstream may want to do in the future
[12:10] <friti> I still say that a new system should have been ready to take its place before scrapping the old. The way it's done now is way messy and will leave users and translation teams hanging until a new system has been decided upon and implemented. It's all very very sloppy.
[12:11] <friti> (forgot the documenters, i should have mentioned them too)
[12:13] <shadeslayer> Riddell: o_o
[12:13] <apachelogger> you are not reading me... it is exactly as it was before
[12:13] <shadeslayer> Riddell: please kill all of them
[12:14] <shadeslayer> Riddell: also, maybe we can have a script that kills all machines running for more than 3 days?
[12:21] <Riddell> shadeslayer: yes please (although it should be just an e-mail rather than killing them and it needs to check all regions which I don't)
[12:22] <shadeslayer> okay
[12:22] <shadeslayer> Riddell: how much did those machines cost us :S
[12:23] <Riddell> shadeslayer: $lots
[12:23] <shadeslayer> :(
[12:23] <Riddell> $60 this month so far
[12:40] <Riddell> shadeslayer: daily e-mail setup to go to me
[12:40] <shadeslayer> oh you already wrote the script ? :D
[12:40] <Riddell> just running euca-describe-instances
[12:41] <Riddell> the faffy bit is finding a server to run it on (our docs server can't send out e-mails) and setting up the access keys
[12:44] <lordievader> Riddell: Can't the docs server send email using another smtp server using something like msmtp. That is how I send email from my server.
[12:44] <Riddell> lordievader: I'd just rather it wasn't able to at all so there's no danger of it being a spam host
[12:45] <lordievader> Right, makes sense.
[12:49] <shadeslayer> Riddell: I was looking for a way to programatically get all the instances via go
[12:50] <shadeslayer> and then send an email
[12:50] <shadeslayer> but meh
[12:50] <shadeslayer> no SDK for GoLang
[12:56] <Riddell> shadeslayer: whyever with Go?
[12:56] <shadeslayer> because it's awesome ! 
[12:56] <Riddell> mm hmm
[12:56] <shadeslayer> I just like Go over Python right now
[12:56] <shadeslayer> though it has a GC ... which isn't something I like
[12:57]  * shadeslayer starts implementing jockey support thingy in s-p-k
[12:58] <Riddell> shadeslayer++
[12:59] <Riddell> shadeslayer: you ok to lead the testing and release next week?
[12:59] <shadeslayer> teo
[12:59] <shadeslayer> erm
[12:59] <shadeslayer> yep
[12:59] <Riddell> ScottK: you ok to sign off on release next week?
[12:59] <Riddell> shadeslayer: doing release notes and announcement too?
[12:59] <Riddell> skeat is a useful person to get that started
[13:00] <shadeslayer> yep, will be available from 10 AM CEST to 9 PM CEST
[13:00] <Riddell> shadeslayer: no arm images, no powerpc images, you'll also need to decide if plasma-active should be released.
[13:00] <shadeslayer> Riddell: IMHO it shouldn't
[13:00] <shadeslayer> very broken
[13:00] <Riddell> still time to fix :)
[13:00] <shadeslayer> I tried to, the dbus fix doesn't work
[13:01] <Riddell> fooey
[13:01] <Riddell> then give up on it I guess
[13:01] <shadeslayer> all I get is a black screen
[13:01] <shadeslayer> though better than a white screen xD
[13:02] <lordievader> Or a blue one ;)
[13:03] <shadeslayer> Riddell: I can try and get the release notes and announcement together, but will need some help :)
[13:04] <Riddell> shadeslayer: you've got smartboyhw at your disposal
[13:05] <shadeslayer> indeed
[13:05] <Riddell> shadeslayer: announcement is just the beta 2 announce updated and copied onto the website
[13:07] <shadeslayer> okay
[13:08]  * apachelogger thinks shadeslayer finally has a reason to blog :P
[13:08] <shadeslayer> drat
[13:09] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: want to take a look at startactive?
[13:15] <apachelogger> what's to be looked at?
[13:15] <apachelogger> today is phonon week, stop stealing work time from phonon week -.-
[13:19] <BluesKaj> Riddell. ok got the NM widget in the panel , thanks 
[13:20] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: active doesn't startup?
[13:20] <apachelogger> did contour get the boot yet?
[13:20] <soee> hmm i had some updates, and wanted to add them and i have: /var/cache/apt/archives/kipi-plugins_4%3a3.4.0-1ubuntu1_amd64.deb
[13:20] <soee> trying to overwrite '/usr/share/kde4/config.kcfg/photolayoutseditor.kcfg', which is also in package digikam 4:3.3.0-0ubuntu1
[13:21] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: yes
[13:21] <apachelogger> ok
[13:21] <Riddell> soee: bah
[13:21] <benvantende_> shadeslayer: okidoki nm fixed wireless up and running again! tHNx
[13:21] <shadeslayer> awesome
[13:24] <Riddell> soee: fix uploaded thanks
[13:25] <Riddell> soee: sudo dpkg --install --force-overwrite /var/cache/apt/archives/kipi-plugins_4%3a3.4.0-1ubuntu1_amd64.deb
[13:34] <ScottK> Riddell: Yes.  Who's doing release notes?
[13:37] <Riddell> ScottK: shadeslayer and smartboyhw
[13:37] <ScottK> OK.
[13:37] <ScottK> Thanks.
[13:37] <Riddell> I'm going to be away this weekend and I'll be in hospital first thing on monday so last chance for any questions to me
[13:37] <Riddell> (assuming the operation goes ahead, these things are often cancelled)
[13:38] <shadeslayer> ScottK: would you be around to approve uploads if the need be?
[13:39] <shadeslayer> if not should I just ask in #ubuntu-release?
[13:39] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Off and on.  Ask in #u-r and I'll react if I'm available.
[13:48] <shadeslayer> Riddell: apachelogger thoughts on implementing the driver stuff in the same kcm category as "About System" ? ( Seems like a better place to put it )
[13:48] <shadeslayer> as opposed to s-p-k
[13:48] <ScottK> s-p-k?
[13:48] <shadeslayer> software-properties-kde
[13:48] <ScottK> Ah.
[13:48] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: yes, but the thing is that spk core has the codez to manage that rubbish
[13:48] <soee> Riddell, thanks
[13:48] <apachelogger> so no clue how practical it is to separate things
[13:49] <ScottK> We do need to get off of using Jockey and start using ubuntu-drivers (or whatever it's called) as a back end.
[13:49] <ScottK> AIUI, we're the only remaining user of Jockey, so it's totally unmaintained.
[13:49] <shadeslayer> ScottK: and that's what I'm fixing
[13:49] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Excellent.
[13:49] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: well, there's a softwareproperties python3 module
[13:52] <Riddell> shadeslayer: yeah, keep it simple and just translate the gtk code to qt I'd say
[13:52] <Riddell> shadeslayer: about system is informational so it doesn't make sense to have the code there
[13:53] <shadeslayer> Riddell: sure, but it won't be a tab under about distro, it'll be another entry in the side list
[13:53] <shadeslayer> like in Account Details has a list on the side
[13:53] <Riddell> I'd rather it was in muon, that's where software installation is
[13:54] <shadeslayer> true
[13:54] <apachelogger> it's not installation
[13:54] <shadeslayer> it's not?
[13:54] <apachelogger> not from a perception POV
[13:55] <apachelogger> it's driver management
[13:55] <shadeslayer> you're installing drivers -> installation?
[13:55] <apachelogger> that happens to be able to install drivers and drirvers are software
[13:55] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: no, you are managing drivers
[13:55] <shadeslayer> I see
[13:56] <apachelogger> you could just as well have combobox selecting the video driver you want to use
[13:56] <apachelogger> (*) nvidia
[13:56] <apachelogger> ( ) nv
[13:56] <apachelogger> ( ) rubbish
[13:56] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: but my system has a bunch of other stuff
[13:56] <shadeslayer> like broadcom wifi drivers
[13:56] <apachelogger> yes
[13:56] <apachelogger> you could also have a combobox for the wifi driver :P
[13:57] <apachelogger> my point is.. you are manging what driver ought to be used, not what driver is installed
[13:57] <shadeslayer> *nod*
[13:57] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: and putting it under the same category as "About System" is fine with you?
[13:57] <apachelogger> about-distro has a category?
[13:58] <apachelogger> system administration?
[14:00] <shadeslayer> X-KDE-System-Settings-Parent-Category is what I was talking about
[14:00] <shadeslayer> yeah
[14:01] <shadeslayer> for eg : X-KDE-System-Settings-Parent-Category="About System" , then have about-distro and the driver manager under there
[14:05] <apachelogger> not so sure about that TBH
[14:05] <apachelogger> gnome does it that way for 3d settings IIRC
[14:05] <apachelogger> didn't seem particularly obvious to me
[14:05] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: maybe discuss on lsit
[14:05] <apachelogger> *list
[14:05] <shadeslayer> okay
[14:06]  * apachelogger rolls eyse at amount of packages kubuntu-active drags in 
[14:08] <shadeslayer> and ofcourse, apt.Cache is not iterable
[14:12] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: THIS IS PYTHAR :@
[14:13] <shadeslayer> :)
[14:15] <yofel> shadeslayer: what's your plan exactly? I thought jt gave up last time because you can't write py3 kcm's (or something like that) (or I'm misunderstanding where you want to put it)
[14:15] <apachelogger> http://i.imgur.com/PzusG9A.png
[14:15] <apachelogger> active breaks lightdm
[14:15] <shadeslayer> yofel: we can
[14:15] <shadeslayer> erm
[14:15] <shadeslayer> we can't?
[14:16] <yofel> IIRC we only have py2 kpythonpluginfactory or something
[14:16] <shadeslayer> something to fix then?
[14:16] <shadeslayer> python3-pykde4: /usr/lib/kde4/kpythonpluginfactory.cpython-33m.so
[14:16] <apachelogger> python just not something you should use :P
[14:17] <yofel> yeah, it's theoretically there - but not used because kde only loads /usr/lib/kde4/kpythonpluginfactory.so
[14:17] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: what's wrong with active again?
[14:17] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: doesn't start?
[14:17] <apachelogger> my vm disagrees
[14:17] <apachelogger> it even starts two plasmas or something ^^
[14:18] <apachelogger> http://i.imgur.com/FehdV9s.png
[14:18] <shadeslayer> :S
[14:18] <shadeslayer> I can't start guest sessions
[14:18] <shadeslayer> and my desktop completely breaks
[14:18] <apachelogger> that's a different thing then, isn't it
[14:20] <apachelogger> both plasma-device and plasma-desktop are running
[14:20] <apachelogger> that seems wrong
[14:20] <shadeslayer> :S
[14:20] <shadeslayer> sounds broken to me
[14:20] <apachelogger> KDEDIRS=/usr
[14:20] <apachelogger> Oo
[14:21] <apachelogger> that's rather wrong
[14:21] <apachelogger> how does that even happen
[14:22] <apachelogger> I think startactive messes with the env
[14:22] <apachelogger> yes
[14:22] <apachelogger> wtf
[14:28]  * apachelogger sighs
[14:29] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: non trivial breakage
[14:29] <apachelogger> needs poking
[14:29] <apachelogger> we could easily make it so that it always picks up settings-active
[14:29] <apachelogger> but then it must depends settings-active
[14:30] <apachelogger> oh, maybe it doesn't actually
[14:30] <ScottK> yofel and shadeslayer: Do we still need the python2 one?
[14:32] <shadeslayer> I have no idea
[14:33] <yofel> same
[14:35] <yofel> there are several applications in /usr/share/kde4/services/ so I think we do
[14:35] <yofel> ... that use it ...
[14:44] <ScottK> OK.
[14:45]  * ScottK wonders if Arch has patches to make all that stuff python3?
[14:49] <apachelogger> fixed active http://i.imgur.com/Zl8X4zm.png
[14:50] <yofel> possibly, though looking closer, what I have here is: usermanager (obsolete), syntapiks (we really need to figure that out...), system-config-printer-kde (what was that?), plasma's python scriptengine (probably most problematic)
[14:51] <apachelogger> s/usermanager/userconfig
[14:51] <yofel> er, right
[14:51] <apachelogger> system-config-printer-kde is the printer-appelt config
[14:51] <apachelogger> which Riddell should do something with upstream
[14:51] <apachelogger> deprecate or somethign
 shadeslayer: I believe kubuntu-active was marked disabled in the ISO tracker, because someone didn't want them to be in milestones/release.  Has that position changed?
[14:52] <shadeslayer> why this is going to be fun
[14:52] <apachelogger> mh
[14:52] <apachelogger> I think that only affected ARM?
[14:53] <apachelogger> or perhaps because it was entirely fckd until yesterday?
[14:53] <apachelogger> hm
[14:53] <apachelogger> lol
[14:53] <smartboyhw> Probably the later;P
[14:53] <apachelogger> there's no xsession without settings-active
[14:53] <apachelogger> roflmao
[14:54] <apachelogger> madness, all of it
[14:55] <apachelogger> startactive not havign a bzr branch is also ugly
[14:55] <apachelogger> oh wait what
[14:55] <apachelogger> debian/patches/kubuntu_02_remove_upstream_KDEDIRS.diff
[14:55] <apachelogger> Oo
[14:55] <apachelogger> not applied
[14:55] <apachelogger>   * Disable kubuntu_02_remove_upstream_KDEDIRS.diff not sure what it's for
[14:56] <apachelogger> Riddell broke it!
[14:57] <apachelogger> anyway, I am going to change this to another patch as that also helps me fix the active-desktop conflict
[14:59] <soee> someone can take a look: http://pastebin.com/FWJdLJrK ?
[15:00] <soee> en version: http://pastebin.com/6M4W8XPP
[15:07] <Riddell> uh oh
[15:07] <apachelogger>   Uploading startactive_0.4-0ubuntu2_source.changes: done.
[15:07] <apachelogger> Successfully uploaded packages.
[15:07] <smartboyhw> Riddell, good uh oh time;0
[15:07] <Riddell> shadeslayer: today's image working good for me, besides plasma-nm not working :)
[15:07] <shadeslayer> Riddell: should be fixed?
[15:07] <apachelogger> shadeslayer, Riddell, ScottK: startactive now adds settings-active to the KDEDIRS used by startactive
[15:07] <shadeslayer> I fixed the isntall file
[15:09] <apachelogger>   Uploading kubuntu-settings_13.10ubuntu14_source.changes: done.
[15:09] <apachelogger> Successfully uploaded packages.
[15:09] <Riddell> shadeslayer: yeah, I just mean with that fixed I recon we're almost good for release
[15:09] <shadeslayer> Riddell: I think active should be fixed as well not
[15:09] <shadeslayer> *now
[15:09] <shadeslayer> just waiting for the CD build to finish
[15:09] <apachelogger> shadeslayer, Riddell, ScottK: active-settings no longer contains /etc/..Xsession.d/ setting KDEDIRS as result of startactive change which should resolve bug 1185503
[15:10] <ScottK> Cool.
[15:10] <apachelogger> and perhaps next time we can try to not have a broken active until a week before release -.-
[15:10] <shadeslayer> ^^
[15:11] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: plz be makign sure you get a plasma-device shell, because I cannot reproduce that
[15:11] <apachelogger> may have been related to the settings clash though
[15:11] <shadeslayer> plasma-device shell>
[15:11] <shadeslayer> ?
[15:11] <apachelogger> otherwise I'd put my money on kwin_gles
[15:11] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: when starting active
[15:12] <shadeslayer> okay
[15:12] <apachelogger> you should get plasma-device rather than plasma-desktop
[15:12] <shadeslayer> *nod*
[15:27] <Riddell> how's Kubuntu Heat for a kubuntu blog?
[15:28] <smartboyhw> Riddell, Kubuntu Heat!?
[15:28] <smartboyhw> Is that Launchad bug heats!?
[15:32] <Riddell> or Kubuntu Base?
[15:32] <Riddell> suggestions welcome
[15:36] <smartboyhw> Riddell, erm, you mean, a specific Kubuntu blog?
[15:36] <smartboyhw> What is it gonna contain?
[15:43] <Riddell> smartboyhw: whatever interesting stories we find, there's a super cool one on dot.kde.org just now that needs reblogged
[15:46] <smartboyhw> Riddell, we should do interviews of ~kubuntu-council, ~kubuntu-dev and ~kubuntu-members! 
[15:46] <Riddell> smartboyhw: yeah :)
[16:25] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: seems to work
[16:26] <shadeslayer> though I have a black wallpaper on boot
[17:41] <alvin> Is there a reason for Kubuntu Active to be 32-bit only? I'd like to test it.
[19:06] <apachelogger> alvin: there's nothing preventing you from using i386 on amd64
[19:09] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: strace it I guess
[19:11] <apachelogger> only thing I can imagine is that the wally is in a package that is only pulledin by recommends and you removed that somehow at some point and now it won't reinstall because it's recommends
[19:11] <apachelogger> random guess of the day
[19:14]  * BluesKaj_ ponders Waldo
[19:17] <ahoneybun> Riddell: could I make a meeting with the council about my membership?
[19:29] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: wally problem on a clean .kde?
[19:30] <apachelogger> kde-artwork-active is a fixed dep of plasma-active so it's likely not that its missing but simply that the config is kaput or using a non-existent thing or whatever
[19:48] <ScottK> ahoneybun: Would you characterize your contribution as significant and sustained (6 months is normal, but it's not a hard rule)?
[19:52] <R33D3M33R> hello, can someone of the devs look at these language related bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-l10n-es/+bug/1083372, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-l10n-sl/+bug/1074420, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-l10n-sl/+bug/1238941 ? Thanks
[19:53] <R33D3M33R> for kdesudo, the fix is pretty easy
[19:54] <R33D3M33R> for the missing files: it worked in previous versions of kde ...
[20:11] <shadeslayer> R33D3M33R: thx, looking
[20:12] <R33D3M33R> great, thanks!
[20:12] <shadeslayer> apachelogger got to it first :(
[20:12]  * apachelogger throws keyboard at shadeslayer
[20:12]  * shadeslayer ducks
[20:13] <R33D3M33R> if there is anything wrong in the repo, please let me know so I will be able to commit the fix
[20:13] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: for kdesudo someone should grab kdesudo translations from launchpad and throw them at the tar
[20:13] <apachelogger> and the -sl issue is upstream
[20:13] <apachelogger> good thing albert is hiding
[20:13] <yofel> -sl is fun, someone "accidentally" deleted the CMakeList.txt's o.O
[20:13] <shadeslayer> heh
[20:14] <R33D3M33R> lol :)
[20:14] <yofel> http://paste.kde.org/p63c57e13
[20:14] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: I am a noob at i18n
[20:14] <R33D3M33R> yeah, that was me
[20:14] <R33D3M33R> but I did it at my own computer
[20:15] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: you'll need to explain the LP process a bit to me
[20:15] <R33D3M33R> when I built the l10n, a bunch of these were created
[20:15] <shadeslayer> I blame R33D3M33R for breaking i18n
[20:15] <R33D3M33R> in order to prevent them from appearing in kdesvn, I just added them to ignore
[20:15] <R33D3M33R> whoops :(
[20:15] <shadeslayer> and svn deleted them ? :S
[20:16] <R33D3M33R> i'm not sure, I was thinking this was local computer only
[20:16] <yofel> the ones in the folder levels above do seem to get auto-generated by the release scripts
[20:16] <yofel> but not the files that need to do the actual file installing
[20:17] <R33D3M33R> but shouldn't the files be auto-regenerated regardless of this delete?
[20:17] <R33D3M33R> doesn't scripty do this?
[20:17] <apachelogger> yofel: what?
[20:17] <apachelogger> yofel: haha, lol
[20:18] <apachelogger> epic
[20:18] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: I totally cannot explain something I do not know
[20:18] <shadeslayer> awesome
[20:18] <apachelogger> find out if kdesudo templates are imported and translated in saucy
[20:19] <apachelogger> if not there is lp:kdesudo which should have translations
[20:19] <apachelogger> then you either write a script or manually download the translations and put them in bzr
[20:19] <apachelogger> then you roll a tar from bzr
[20:19] <yofel> R33D3M33R: no idea, I don't know much about l10n - I just went by what I saw when comparing sl and de ^^
[20:20] <R33D3M33R> this might really be the cause ... because nothing else changed
[20:20] <apachelogger> R33D3M33R: you cannot autogenerate installation instructions really
[20:20] <shadeslayer> "Translations" is grayed out
[20:20] <apachelogger> not for arbitrary data anyway
[20:20] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: for saucy?
[20:20] <shadeslayer> oh
[20:20] <apachelogger> also https://translations.launchpad.net/kdesudo
[20:21] <shadeslayer> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+source/kdesudo
[20:21] <shadeslayer> I have no idea how to read that :/
[20:21] <apachelogger> learn english then :P
[20:21] <shadeslayer> -.-
[20:22] <R33D3M33R> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kdesudo/+bug/356331
[20:22] <R33D3M33R> so you cannot really translate this in lp
[20:23] <apachelogger> sure you can
[20:23] <apachelogger> it's just not set up
[20:23] <R33D3M33R> yes, thats what i meant
[20:23] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+sources/kdesudo/+translations
[20:24] <shadeslayer> dunno but apt-file search gives me : kdesudo: /usr/share/locale/de/LC_MESSAGES/kdesudo.mo
[20:24] <apachelogger> no string changes, so simply use precise :P
[20:24] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: the files are empty
[20:24] <shadeslayer> heh fun
[20:24] <apachelogger> or at least some
[20:24] <apachelogger> == german is
[20:24] <apachelogger> so I'd just sync all with what precise had
[20:24] <apachelogger> seeing as we are somewhat close to release
[20:25] <apachelogger> I love how everyone comes up with l10n issues 6 days before release
[20:25] <shadeslayer> ^^
[20:25] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: okay seriously, I have no idea how to do this :/
[20:26] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/kdesudo/+export
[20:26] <shadeslayer>  Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page or the information in this page is not shared with you. 
[20:26] <apachelogger> lul?
[20:26] <shadeslayer> exactly
[20:26] <shadeslayer> okay I can view it now ...
[20:26] <shadeslayer> apparently that link is non sharable
[20:27] <apachelogger> nah it's administrative for whatever reason Oo
[20:27] <apachelogger> but shouldn't that thing be in the kubuntu package set?
[20:27] <shadeslayer> okay requested mo format
[20:27] <apachelogger> nooooooooooooooo
[20:27] <apachelogger> po format
[20:27] <shadeslayer> it is, I just had to go  through https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+sources/kdesudo/+translations
[20:27]  * apachelogger throws keyboard
[20:27] <shadeslayer> fine
[20:28] <shadeslayer> you clearly have too many keyboards
[20:28]  * apachelogger wonders if Riddell cleared up things with patched l10n :O
[20:28] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: there's a stack of 5 not 10 cm from my right arm actually
[20:28] <apachelogger> so yes
[20:29] <shadeslayer> hurray http://i.imgur.com/9mmPwCh.png
[20:29] <shadeslayer> now all I need to do is make a tree model
[20:29] <shadeslayer> then throw it at a tree view
[20:29] <shadeslayer> and implement installing and reverting
[20:30] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: have the po's
[20:30] <shadeslayer> just untar into kdesudo and upload?
[20:30] <apachelogger> I dunno what the tar contains
[20:31] <apachelogger> most likely you'll need to write a tiny script that places them with right name in the right dir
[20:31] <shadeslayer> has a po filder
[20:31] <shadeslayer> with other langs inside po folder
[20:31] <shadeslayer> ls
[20:31] <shadeslayer> ...
[20:31] <R33D3M33R> ah, apachelogger, I see now, renaming kdesud to kdesudo only partially improves the translation of the dialog, my bad, I wasn't paying enough attention
[20:31] <apachelogger> kinda hard to ls if I did not request an export :P
[20:32] <apachelogger> I put down a task for 14.04 to fix kdesudo l10n
[20:32] <apachelogger> proper
[20:32] <shadeslayer> xD
[20:32] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: file names are wrong
[20:32] <R33D3M33R> great, so for the missing files, we will need help from Albert?
[20:32] <shadeslayer> ffffuuuuuuuuuuuuu
[20:33] <apachelogger> and there are stray files that have no dir
[20:33] <apachelogger> and you need to make sure it builds
[20:33]  * shadeslayer throws monitors at Launchpad
[20:33] <apachelogger> so the stray files will need a new dir and cmakelists accordingly
[20:33] <apachelogger> R33D3M33R: someone from kde-l10n/i18n anyway
[20:34] <apachelogger> seems the commit yofel pointed to was the regression.... but I do not feel comfortable poking around in l10n stuff upstream
[20:34] <R33D3M33R> well, I don't want to break anything else, so I won't touch it until it's fixed
[20:35] <apachelogger> and why is it so flipping cold
[20:35] <apachelogger> :@
[20:35]  * apachelogger freezing
[20:35] <R33D3M33R> I can mail the kde mailing list and ask for fix, would that be ok?
[20:35] <apachelogger> R33D3M33R: yep
[20:35] <R33D3M33R> great, I will do that, thanks for all the help so far!
[20:35] <R33D3M33R> bye
[20:37] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: I think a script exporting one-by-one may be more useful :P
[20:37] <apachelogger> in the long run
[20:38] <apachelogger> seeing as Riddell also wanted something like that, though I do not know what for or rather if he wrote a script, because I also suggested that to him :P
[20:38] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: moment, trying to understand the drinking game that afiestas_/vHanda/d_ed are discussing
[20:41] <shadeslayer> such nerds
[20:41] <apachelogger> don't drink and code.
[20:57] <shadeslayer> fun
[20:57] <shadeslayer> find  -maxdepth 1 -type f -name \*.po | cut -d\-  -f 2 | sed 's/.po//' | xargs mkdir
[21:05] <valorie> isn't the Ballmer Peak just about drinking and coding?
[21:05]  * valorie brews up a hot toddy for apachelogger
[21:08] <genii> I thought they used the "mushroom method". eg: keep programmers in the dark, feed them feces, and hope something good grows
[21:10] <apachelogger> valorie: :*
[21:11] <valorie> genii: lol
[21:11] <apachelogger> valorie: also unless one constantly tries to be at ballmer's peak it will have bad impact on code as code produced whilist peaking is so far ahead of normal brain capacity that one will not be able to make sense of it in any other state
[21:12] <valorie> that's only companies
[21:12] <apachelogger> also since one is so very efficient one canot be bothered with writing comments
[21:12] <valorie> apachelogger: sounds about right
[21:12] <apachelogger> it's a tradeoff :P
[21:12] <valorie> I've heard the same about songs written while tripping on LSD
[21:13] <valorie> they don't make quite the same sense as they did from miles high
[21:13] <valorie> which explains a lot of acid-rock to me
[21:14] <valorie> and the continuing popularity of Frank Zappa
[21:18]  * genii puts on "Joe's Garage"
[21:20] <valorie> don't bogart that joint, my friend
[21:21] <valorie> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oH8u9PxWJo :-)
[21:28] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: http://pastebin.kde.org/psxrkuo9g
[21:31] <shadeslayer> fooey
[21:32] <shadeslayer> better http://pastebin.kde.org/pbweqghmn
[21:32] <shadeslayer> oh
[22:30] <shadeslayer> fffuuuuuuuu
[22:30] <valorie> sup, shadeslayer?
[22:31] <shadeslayer> raging at translations stuff
[22:31] <shadeslayer> no idea why the po
[22:31] <valorie> that's been a problem for as long as I can remember
[22:31] <shadeslayer> is not installed
[22:31] <valorie> launchpad destroys 'em
[22:31] <shadeslayer> no no no
[22:31] <shadeslayer> the stupid gmo is built
[22:31] <shadeslayer> but the mo isn't installed
[22:32] <shadeslayer> eh
[22:32] <shadeslayer> whaty
[22:32] <shadeslayer> hurray
[22:32] <shadeslayer> I'm awesome
[22:32] <shadeslayer> and tired
[22:32] <shadeslayer> was looking at the wrong deb
[22:33] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: pign
[22:33] <valorie> {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
[22:33] <shadeslayer> ping
[22:33] <valorie> shadeslayer: did you finally find a good place to live?
[22:34] <shadeslayer> valorie: *hugs*
[22:34] <shadeslayer> valorie: yep
[22:34] <valorie> \o/
[22:34] <shadeslayer> valorie: and d_ed is living with me \o/
[22:34] <valorie> nice!
[22:34] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: can test http://people.ubuntu.com/~rohangarg/kdesudo_3.4.2.4+repack-2ubuntu2~ppa1_amd64.deb
[22:35] <valorie> did you find a violin teacher?
[22:35] <shadeslayer> yep
[22:35] <shadeslayer> infact
[22:35] <shadeslayer> d_ed is teach us how to play the guitar
[22:35] <shadeslayer> and then at home I learn the violin 
[22:35] <shadeslayer> xD
[22:35] <valorie> very nice
[22:35] <shadeslayer> yep
[22:35] <valorie> did you ever see the film The Red Violin ?
[22:35] <shadeslayer> no, haven't gotten to it yet
[22:35] <shadeslayer> and no internet at the apartment
[22:35] <valorie> woah
[22:36] <valorie> otoh, relaxation....
[22:36] <shadeslayer> yeah :P
[22:36] <shadeslayer> I am finally going through my books 
[22:36] <valorie> just torrent at the office
[22:36] <valorie> lol
[22:36] <shadeslayer> leave the laptop at the office
[22:36] <shadeslayer> just have my phone at home
[22:36] <valorie> I've been reading a lot lately
[22:36] <valorie> it's a good thing
[22:36] <shadeslayer> yeah
[22:37] <valorie> helps me write more
[22:41] <shadeslayer> anyone have an idea how to force some app to be shown in a different language?
[22:46] <shadeslayer> yofel: want to test kdesudo ^^
[22:50] <ahoneybun> hello valorie
[22:51] <valorie> hi ahoneybun
[22:51] <valorie> how are ya?
[22:51] <ahoneybun> howdy
[22:51] <ahoneybun> good you.
[22:51] <valorie> pretty good
[22:52] <ahoneybun> good
[22:52] <valorie> just about to launch into a massive repiping/bathroom redo project
[22:52] <valorie> sorta crazy
[22:52] <ahoneybun> oh boy
[22:53] <ahoneybun> docs are going well
[22:54] <valorie> I haven't worked on them for a long time
[22:54] <valorie> but it's cool to see them on the website
[22:54] <ahoneybun> yep
[22:54] <ahoneybun> it's in the second beta
[22:55] <valorie> I wish we had been able to complete the installation section
[22:56] <valorie> but it's a big job, and getting it done whenever will still be valuable
[23:00] <ahoneybun> I would to get what we have finalize first then have the installation on a +1 or the next LTS
[23:00] <ahoneybun> *to like to get what
[23:08] <ahoneybun> what do you think
[23:08] <ahoneybun> ?
[23:10] <valorie> definitely
[23:10] <valorie> we can get those mini-docs prepared as well, so we have something for the translators
[23:11] <valorie> they are starting to ask
[23:11] <valorie> not sure you noticed
[23:11] <valorie> thank you so much for thinking big, aaron
[23:11] <valorie> you kickstarted us
[23:11] <valorie> and though I really miss darkwing, I think we can get it done with the new crew we have
[23:14] <ahoneybun> I miss him too
[23:14] <ahoneybun> yes I noticed one person
[23:14] <ahoneybun> what should be in the mini-docs?
[23:15] <skellat> ahoneybun valorie: There is an Ubuntu Documentation Project meeting coming up and a Doodle poll is happening to fix a date & time.  Jack Fromm & I will be there to represent Xubuntu.  If you want to join in, contribute to the Doodle poll http://doodle.com/75zbukag5fgk8ri4 and talk to pleia2 about getting a Kubuntu Documentation team added under the Ubuntu Documentation Project umbrella perhaps.  There may not be much there useful for flavors 
[23:16] <valorie> thanks, skellat
[23:16] <valorie> what do you do for xubuntu docs?
[23:16] <ahoneybun> skellat: thank you for the info though, yes that would be great and it could get more people involved
[23:17] <valorie> ahoneybun: so much less than we used to have, IMO
[23:17] <valorie> and links to our new docs
[23:17] <valorie> permanent links, not to the wiki
[23:18] <ahoneybun> valorie: Riddell was talking about linking our server to the main kubuntu site
[23:18] <skellat> valorie: I help write, update things, and make sure it gets into the sponsorship queue for upload
[23:18] <valorie> but I mean, what is there for content other than the standard ubuntu docs?
[23:19] <valorie> what do you ship, and what do you have on your website?
[23:19] <valorie> sheesh, that is basic info I should know already
[23:19] <valorie> duh
[23:19] <skellat> valorie: We seed apt-offline so we've got a chapter on how to use it.  I've got tentative tasks for 14.04 to write some more in-depth stuff.  You can find it at http://docs.xubuntu.org
[23:19] <skellat> Which mirrors what we ship in the xubuntu-docs package
[23:19] <valorie> ah, I do remember looking at that
[23:19] <valorie> so you ship a big set of docs
[23:20] <skellat> Yeah
[23:20] <valorie> do you get good translations?
[23:20] <skellat> I'm not plugged in on the translation side, alas.  I heard from a PT translator that he's going to work hard to get it all translated for 14.04.
[23:21] <valorie> I think it's really important to have at least the core docs well-translated
[23:21] <valorie> apps and stuff like that, we can rely more on the KDE translations
[23:21] <skellat> The delta between 13.04 and 13.10 wasn't too bad so there wasn't much to change translations for.  We had to search & destroy all references to the pidgin-microblog package as it is hopelessly broken but beyond that we did some tweaking this round.
[23:21] <ahoneybun> skellat: valorie and I were thinking of having the main in english but have a mini set so it is easy to translate
[23:21] <valorie> and i think the ubuntu docs are generally well done
[23:22] <ahoneybun> valorie: I think it would be a great idea to go 
[23:22] <valorie> yeah, that's the problem with having much about specific packages
[23:22] <ahoneybun> I already did the poll skellat
[23:22] <valorie> they change
[23:23] <valorie> imo better to have links
[23:23] <ahoneybun> links?
[23:23] <valorie> and let the app devels do the translations
[23:23] <skellat> valorie: We update it as time goes by.  LTS requires attention but it works.  Since Xfce does some stuff differently than you'd see in Unity, we have to explain those processes.
[23:24] <valorie> for instance we have a list of games, but aside from a short phrase about each, there is basically a link to the kdegames page about it
[23:24] <valorie> skellat: yes, same here
[23:24] <valorie> KDE provides different fuctionality than Unity
[23:25] <skellat> Our seeding doesn't change too drastically.  As to pidgin-microblog, I also wound up doing merge proposals to get it completely unseeded as it is just broken and now orphaned in Debian.  We got it unseeded in Lubuntu and Xubuntu as of 13.10 so nobody will ship it on-disc.  Kinda drastic but also a rare case.
[23:27] <valorie> yeah, the kde version is pretty broken as well
[23:27] <ahoneybun> valorie: can you make a few changes on the trello so we can see what we want in the mini-docs
[23:27] <valorie> I don't think we've shipped it for awhile
[23:27] <valorie> ahoneybun: that requires thinking
[23:27] <valorie> which..... I can't do at the moment
[23:28]  * skellat disappears so as to deal with LoCo-related matters
[23:28] <valorie> but I'll open the page for when my brain is working
[23:28] <valorie> too much going on atm
[23:28] <valorie> I'm missing the SeaGL meet too
[23:28] <valorie> :(
[23:29] <ahoneybun> oh
[23:30] <ahoneybun> true
[23:30] <valorie> first ever Seattle GNU/Linux conf.
[23:30] <ahoneybun> I'll try my best to be at that meeting
[23:30] <ahoneybun> oh dare
[23:30] <valorie> awesome
[23:30] <ahoneybun> yep I'll be there 
[23:30]  * valorie goes to check on the doodle
[23:31] <valorie> usually everyone meets while I'm still sleeping
[23:31] <ahoneybun> yea I'll be there for both of us If I can
[23:33] <valorie> you might drop on note on kub-devel and see if some other docs folks will join in too
[23:33] <ahoneybun> note>
[23:34] <ahoneybun> ?
[23:34] <ahoneybun> I don't know how
[23:37] <valorie> a post
[23:37] <valorie> an email 
[23:37] <valorie> to the kubuntu-devel list
[23:37] <ahoneybun> email the list
[23:37] <valorie> right
[23:38] <valorie> damn it, I doodled
[23:38] <valorie> but trello won't let me in
[23:38] <valorie> pfff
[23:43] <ahoneybun> weird
[23:44] <valorie> I'll look at my email
[23:44] <valorie> maybe I used the wrong email or something
[23:46] <valorie> or chromium forgot my passw
[23:47] <valorie> resetting it
[23:51] <valorie> ok, got in to catch up a bit
[23:55] <ahoneybun> k