[04:08] <Mirv> morning
[04:45] <pitti> Good morning
[04:58] <robru> Mirv, pitti: good morning!
[04:59] <Mirv> robru: good night! :)
[04:59] <robru> Mirv, haha, yes, before i go to bed i need to talk to you!
[05:00] <Mirv> robru: shoot
[05:00] <robru> Mirv, if you can get this landed: https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-touch.saucy-noaudioengine/+merge/185568 please also try to get this one too: https://code.launchpad.net/~robru/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.saucy
[05:00] <robru> Mirv, dbarth wants us to ram this through
[05:01] <Mirv> robru: right, so it's ogra_ that needs to pinged to make sure that both of them go in at the same time
[05:02] <robru> Mirv, ok, yeah. ogra already tried to land my branch but was told by the release team to stop because of conflicts because the first one hadn't gone through yet.
[05:02] <pitti> hey robru, how are you?
[05:02] <robru> pitti, a bit frazzled by the freeze here!
[05:03] <robru> pitti, and you?
[05:05] <Mirv> robru: I just wonder if all the bits and pieces are in now in the discussion. surely the audioengine can be dropped, but I understood there is a problem on the source package side as qtmultimedia still build-depends on openal. or was that now foregone so it's enough that binary dependencies are ok.
[05:05] <robru> Mirv, well, i checked and you yourself dropped the dependency on qtmultimedia from ubuntu-ui-toolkit, so there is nothing even pulling qtmultimedia into main anymore (except that one seed). so it should all be good as far as I know
[05:06] <Mirv> robru: well the next line in the seed pulls qtdeclarative5-qtmultimedia-plugin
[05:06] <robru> ugh
[05:06] <pitti> robru: quite fine, thanks
[05:06] <Mirv> but it's mterry proposing that change so there must be some sort of general idea there
[05:07] <Mirv> robru: maybe the plan includes actually uploading a qtmultimedia that completely drops qtaudioengine, it just isn't said there. that might be a tough sell at this hour.
[05:08] <robru> Mirv, yeah, i dunno. i am quite confused about this whole thing
[05:08] <Mirv> " If we dropped this recommendation, we could drop the plugin from the archive and promote qtmultimedia easily."
[05:08] <robru> Mirv, right, qtmultimedia is ok but openal/qtaudioengine was problematic
[05:09] <Mirv> although only because we lack manpower to get them evaluated into main
[05:09] <robru> Mirv, frankly this whole thing is a mess. we need 'convergence' but we don't need a new audio layer in main.
[05:13] <Mirv> it's possible mterry has thought up the whole plan how he'll proceed, but just in case I'll prepare https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/qtmultimedia-opensource-src_5.0.2 that drops the audio engine package
[05:13] <robru> Mirv, it's appreciated. please coordinate with dbarth on this as well, it's his baby.
[05:16] <Mirv> ok, will do, and will take bzoltan also into the discussion of actually dropping the whole Audio Engine which may impact some people althouh surely less important than not having webapps
[05:17] <robru> Mirv, great, thanks a bunch. last time i spoke to dbarth he said he was preparing to get this done "in the morning" but i'm not sure what TZ he is. presumably that's much sooner than my morning, which is the latest of the mornings.
[05:18] <robru> ogra_, it sounds like we are ramming through this webbrowser-app stuff, please be available to update some seeds ^^ ;-)
[05:20] <Mirv> robru: he's Europe TZ
[05:20] <robru> Mirv, should be up soon then ;-)
[05:21] <Mirv> in 1-2h I think, he's in Central Europe unlike me
[05:21] <Mirv> robru: I need some core-dev to sponsor the qtmultimedia as well
[05:21] <Mirv> well, didrocks should be awake soon, he's the guy
[05:21] <robru> Mirv, isn't didrocks on honeymoon? i thought he just came back for one day only to catch up on emails ;-)
[05:21] <Mirv> robru: one last thing I worry about is talking about today, final freeze was already 8h ago
[05:22] <Mirv> robru: oh, was it just one day? sad.. I mean, great for him, he shouldn't be here anyway :)
[05:22] <Mirv> seb128 then
[05:22] <robru> Mirv, yes, that is the trouble. in fact jasoncwarner_ already told me to drop it. but then dbarth told me not to drop it. so i am slightly conflicted, and expecting that dbarth has some magic to ram this through with.
[05:22] <Mirv> robru: ok, I'll prepare this branch and get dbarth magic involved
[05:23] <robru> Mirv, great, thanks again
[08:11] <chrisccoulson> happy friday!
[08:20] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[08:20] <seb128> oh, a chrisccoulson
[08:20] <seb128> chrisccoulson, happy friday! ;-)
[08:20] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128 :)
[08:21] <seb128> chrisccoulson, how are you?
[08:21] <chrisccoulson> seb128, i'm not too bad thanks. how about you?
[08:22] <seb128> I'm good thanks
[08:22] <seb128> chrisccoulson, have you seen that email from bkerensa on the desktop list?
[08:22] <bkerensa> seb128: I informed him of it
[08:22] <bkerensa> in #ubuntu-mozillateam
[08:23] <seb128> bkerensa, thanks for making our work more difficult and convincing more than firefox is a pain and that we should use chromium btw
[08:23]  * seb128 hates firefox dictating how you can't do proper OS integration
[08:23] <bkerensa> seb128: its about transparency... why would you hate Mozilla having policy seeking transparency for end users?
[08:24] <chrisccoulson> we should write our own browser ;)
[08:24] <seb128> bkerensa, I hate the "I've asked them to block Ubuntu"
[08:24] <seb128> bkerensa, it's nothing about being open with users, it's about preventing vendors to integrate with their OS
[08:24] <bkerensa> seb128: I didn't ask them to block Ubuntu. I request a block of extensions that do not comply with add-on policy
[08:25] <seb128> which you quote as "you can't enable anything by default"
[08:25] <bkerensa> thats what the policy says
[08:25] <seb128> which means "you can't integrate with your OS by default"
[08:25] <seb128> yeah
[08:25] <chrisccoulson> it's not that the extensions don't comply. we patched firefox to disable that feature (with permission from mozilla). nothing to do with the addon....
[08:25] <bkerensa> seb128: Chrome and Chromium have the same policy fwiw
[08:25] <seb128> bkerensa, I doubt chromium does the "you can't call it chromium if you patch/change it"
[08:26] <bkerensa> seb128: Chromium calls it "ExtensionInstallBlacklist"
[08:26] <seb128> bkerensa, with chromium we could just patch the source to do what we want
[08:26] <bkerensa> seb128: you could
[08:27] <seb128> chrisccoulson, so what's next, we just have to deal with no unity integration because upstream disallow that sort of things?
[08:28] <seb128> bkerensa, I though those processes were to block buggy/dangerous/untrusted code, not to block integrator to make the browser looks better on their platform
[08:28] <bkerensa> seb128: they are to block buggy/dangerous/untrusted code but also add-ons that are not transparent
[08:29] <seb128> what does that mean?
[08:29] <bkerensa> seb128: installing add-ons by default into Firefox without any notification to the end user is not transparent
[08:29] <seb128> shrug
[08:29] <bkerensa> :)
[08:29] <seb128> how are you supposed to do integration?
[08:29] <seb128> or do they lock down to keep a competitive advantage
[08:29] <bkerensa> by have opt-in
[08:29] <seb128> and block others to do a good job of it?
[08:29] <seb128> sure
[08:29] <chrisccoulson> we got permission from mozilla to disable the opt-in dialog for system addons
[08:29] <seb128> because users like to opt in
[08:30] <bkerensa> seb128: ^^
[08:30] <seb128> so what's the issue?
[08:30] <bkerensa> chrisccoulson: what about the lack of descriptions also an add-on policy?
[08:30] <chrisccoulson> at the time, it was decided that having a dialog on first run effectively saying "do you want a working menubar?" was crappy user experience
[08:31] <seb128> bkerensa, so you raise issue with upstream and ask them to block us before even trying to figure out if that's something we discussed with them? great...
[08:31] <seb128> chrisccoulson, it is ;-)
[08:31] <bkerensa> seb128: The issue was at summit it was discussed and I said I would file a bug on it
[08:31] <chrisccoulson> but these addons are going to stop working at some point soon anyway, and with us switching to chromium then i'm not sure it matters too much anymore
[08:31] <chrisccoulson> and i have no time for firefox these days ;)
[08:32] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you never seeded that addon anyway it seems... so virtually it's optin
[08:32] <chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, this is for the webapps stuff, isn't it?
[08:33] <bkerensa> chrisccoulson: yes
[08:33] <bkerensa> chrisccoulson: not for the improvement bit
[08:33] <chrisccoulson> bkerensa, where is the upstream bug?
[08:33] <seb128> chrisccoulson, isn't "unity" the integration with the unity launcher?
[08:33] <bkerensa> let me grab it
[08:33] <seb128> chrisccoulson, e.g the download bar in the launcher icon
[08:33] <chrisccoulson> seb128, no, that's the unity webapps addon
[08:34] <chrisccoulson> confusing ;)
[08:34] <seb128> chrisccoulson, which one is the launcher integration?
[08:34] <chrisccoulson> seb128, unityfox, but that's not in the archive
[08:34] <seb128> chrisccoulson, :-(
[08:34] <bkerensa> chrisccoulson: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=925637
[08:34] <ubot2> Mozilla bug 925637 in Blocklisting "Blocklist unity-firefox-extension add-on" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[08:35] <bkerensa> chrisccoulson: your welcome to add your feedback and I will surely ping the folks who discussed the blacklisting of it when they land back home in europe
[09:06] <sil2100> Morning!
[09:06] <sil2100> seb128: hi! Could you see my comment on the buildNumber branch you proposed? :)
[09:06] <seb128> sil2100, good morning
[09:06] <seb128> sil2100, just did, nicely spotted, copy/paste error
[09:06] <seb128> sil2100, I'm going to fix it in a bit
[09:07] <sil2100> seb128: awesome! Those tend to happen a lot when there's a lot of work around, thanks ;)
[09:07] <seb128> indeed
[09:08] <seb128> sil2100, btw, another issue with the background panel
[09:08] <seb128> sil2100, the welcome screen image is always the fallback image for me
[09:08] <seb128> do you see that as well?
[09:08] <seb128> in the preview widget
[09:09] <sil2100> Yes, indeed - I didn't really notice that as I'm rarely using the show all
[09:09] <sil2100> I guess we need that fixed up along with the welcome-screen changer
[09:09] <seb128> sil2100, ok, I'm going to open a bug, do you want to work on it?
[09:11] <seb128> ok, I'm going to do that
[09:12] <seb128> but I'm out for some errands before
[09:14] <didrocks> sil2100: everything restarting to build?
[09:14] <didrocks> sil2100: I think we really need to focus on the landing today
[09:14] <pitti> desrt: FYI, just uploaded pygobject with the thread safety and a memleak patch backported
[09:15] <pitti> desrt: just in case we don't get 3.10.1 into saucy any more on Monday
[09:24] <sil2100> didrocks: restarted, waiting for it to finish ;) No worries, today I prioritize the testing
[09:24] <didrocks> sil2100: I cheated a little bit to speed things up
[09:28]  * Laney peeks in
[09:29] <Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/1238410
[09:29] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1238410 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Inconsistent cursor visibility with cursor plugin enabled" [Undecided,New]
[09:29] <Laney> Is it true that the cursor plugin isn't used in Unity?
[09:29] <Laney> can we disable it? That hidden pointer bug is annoing
[09:31] <Laney> darkxst: any idea about that?
[09:37] <darkxst> Laney, sorry no, I have poked through most of g-s-d, but never looked at the cursor plugin
[09:39] <Laney> I'll try disabling it and see what happens
[09:40] <darkxst> Laney, btw, did you see https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=709419
[09:40] <ubot2> Gnome bug 709419 in nm-applet "nm-applet should be still autostarted in fallback/flashback sessions" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[09:40] <darkxst> that is the upstream fix for nm-applet
[09:42] <darkxst> (pending testing atleast)
[09:42] <darkxst> gotta run though will be back in half an hour
[09:44] <Laney> fair enough, seems sensible
[09:44] <Laney> it might fix the duplicate indicator-network/nm-applet too
[10:19] <mhr3> didrocks, one more thing - we now really need to land https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-lens-applications/+bug/1237257
[10:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1237257 in unity-lens-applications (Ubuntu) "Running applications scope should be disabled" [Undecided,New]
[10:19] <mhr3> but for desktop
[10:20] <mhr3> cause hud now implemented appstack-bridge and desktop therefore gets recent apps in two different categories
[10:20] <didrocks> mhr3: this is landing as we speak, please help Mirv discussing on the release team
[10:20] <mhr3> didrocks, k
[10:20] <pstolowski> and they don't even work because of other unimplemented stuff on the desktop
[10:21] <mhr3> indeed
[10:21] <Mirv> mhr3: #ubuntu-release
[12:03] <mhr3> pitti, viewing a report with apport-cli does some basic parsing and adds data to the crash file, right? can i delete something from the updated crash file so it'll do it again?
[12:08] <mhr3> and answering myself... everything after CoreDump
[12:38] <desrt> pitti: cool.  thanks.
[13:14] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, hey, thanks for the work on that scrolling issue/gtk patch
[13:14] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: No problem:)  Do you think we can get that in as a zero day SRU for Saucy?
[13:14] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, not sure how responsive the GTK guys are to bugzilla patches nowadays, you might want to try to give a gentle "can you tell me what you think about that patch" to garnacho on #gtk+ irc.gnome.org
[13:15] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, we can but I would prefer to get an upstream review first ;-)
[13:15] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: Right, I meant if/when upstream accepts it.  I'll try pinging garnacho.
[13:15] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, thanks
[13:16] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, I plan to upload GTK 3.8.5 soon, it's going to go through SRU but I can include that fix with the upload
[13:16] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: That would be great!
[13:24] <didrocks> argh, ken is on holidays…
[13:27] <seb128> didrocks, yes
[13:28]  * didrocks wonders who will land the signon thingy then
[13:28] <didrocks> I guess robru will be the victim
[13:29] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, you might just want to ask your question, so he knows what you ping about if he does filtering/when he's back
[13:29] <seb128> haha
[13:38] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: Ha, ok, I was just trying to be polite and not throw a bunch of stuff on him, but I'll do that:)
[13:39] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, being polite is good, but giving some context to ping as well ... make easier to judge what you have time/interest to pong ;-)
[13:40] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: Yep, makes sense.  Thanks!
[13:40] <seb128> yw ;-)
[13:42] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, see, you got a reply :p
[13:42] <seb128> context helps ;-)
[13:42] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: :-D
[13:58] <seb128> lol, I like pre release time
[13:59] <seb128> that's when user wake up and start reporting obvious issues...
[13:59]  * seb128 just stacked like 5 fixes this morning
[14:00] <seb128> "since this morning "rather
[14:24] <Sweetshark> seb128: thanks for reassigning the "openoffice.org dustbunny edition on Ubuntu 9.04" bug to me (well admittedly better then on nautilus as it was before, but still ...)
[14:25] <seb128> Sweetshark, I though you wouldn't be subscribed to openoffice anymore ;-)
[14:26] <Sweetshark> seb128: the libreoffice packaging team is still subscribed to those ;)
[14:26] <seb128> Sweetshark, you should fix that ;-)
[14:26] <mdeslaur> seb128: all bugs are discovered in the week before release, didn't you know that? :)
[14:26] <seb128> mdeslaur, I knew and forgot, I'm learning it again every cycle ;-)
[14:29] <seb128> mdeslaur, happy friday btw ;-)
[14:30] <mdeslaur> hehe, thanks you too :)
[14:48] <jasoncwarner_> morning all.
[14:48] <jasoncwarner_> anyone know why I might be getting two network indicators this morning (and yesterday)?
[14:52] <Mirv> I haven't seen that
[14:55] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: hey! I think it's because you installed on the desktop ubuntu-system-settings
[14:55] <didrocks> which deps on indicator-network
[14:55] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: lol, that would have done it! I did lots of my testing that way for a while.
[14:55] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: , will uninstall it and see how that goes.
[14:56] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: uninstall indicator-network
[14:56] <seb128> or edit /usr/share/unity/indicators/com.canonical.indicator.network and delete the desktop section
[14:57] <seb128> that way unity stops getting it
[14:57]  * didrocks keeps his 2 indicators, only one handle vpn :)
[14:57] <seb128> but you can keep testing settings
[14:57]  * seb128 does that
[14:57] <seb128> you need to divert/redo the hack after updates though
[14:57] <jasoncwarner_> seb128: I also will do that!
[14:57] <jasoncwarner_> thanks, seb128
[14:57] <seb128> yw!
[14:58] <seb128> you can as well uninstall nm-applet if the other one is enough for you
[14:58] <seb128> but as didrocks said, no vpn integration in the new one (yet)
[14:58] <jasoncwarner_> speaking of seetings, seb128 and/or laney, I noticed that brightness works just great from the power indicator, but when I use the birghtness slider in settings, it doesn't seem to adjust the brightness? (I am updating to 92 image right now, so that might fix it as well).
[14:59] <seb128> weird
[14:59] <seb128> we use the indicator's slider through qmenumodel
[14:59] <seb128> we just don't set it to "dynamic"
[14:59] <seb128> so it applies when you stop moving it
[14:59] <seb128> we should change that
[15:00] <jasoncwarner_> seb128: ah...I see what you mean now
[15:01] <jasoncwarner_> yeah, that is inconsistent
[15:01] <seb128> the indicator used to do what ours does
[15:01] <jasoncwarner_> I thought it did nothing b/c I always wen tot 100% to test it
[15:01] <seb128> they changed it recently
[15:01] <jasoncwarner_> and it seems going to 100% doesn't actually adjust the setting...but going to 99% does
[15:01] <seb128> oh
[15:01] <seb128> that's a bug lars fixed
[15:01] <seb128> 0% and 100% aren't working
[15:01] <seb128> shurg, with the new landing rules fixes don't land regularly...
[15:02] <seb128> oh
[15:02] <seb128> that just landed today
[15:02] <jasoncwarner_> seb128: does your brightness persist? I seem to have to adjust it everytime I lock and unlock?
[15:02] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qmenumodel/0.2.7+13.10.20131011-0ubuntu1
[15:02] <jasoncwarner_> oh, nice, thanks seb128 and larsu
[15:03] <seb128> no, it doesn't
[15:03] <seb128> that's not a bug in our side of things though
[15:03] <seb128> likely a powerd issue
[15:03] <jasoncwarner_> seb128: ok. who you think I should be poking there?
[15:03] <seb128> didrocks, ogra_, ^ do you know if that's known?
[15:03] <jasoncwarner_> nm ;)
[15:03] <seb128> hehe
[15:04] <didrocks> seb128: not that I know of, but we are not at that granularity of bugs TBH ;)
[15:04] <didrocks> (unfortunately)
[15:04] <ogra_> seb128, that we have no config for the brightness implemented in unity yet ?
[15:05] <seb128> ogra_, that doesn't seem like a "config" to me
[15:05] <seb128> ogra_, same as sound volume btw
[15:05] <seb128> ogra_, on desktop sound level is stored at shutdown and restored by alsa at start
[15:05] <ogra_> seb128, the shell is supposed to manage storing the configuration
[15:05] <seb128> k
[15:05] <ogra_> thats not existing yet
[15:05] <ogra_> so powerd jumps back to its defaults
[15:05] <seb128> ok, makes sense
[15:05] <seb128> ogra_, thanks
[15:06] <seb128> ogra_, not sure unity8 is the right place
[15:06] <seb128> especially that it runs as user, which is not the case of powerd
[15:06] <seb128> ogra_, imho the init jobs/powerd should do that (same as alsa for audio traditionally)
[15:07] <seb128> but I guess that's a discussion for next cycle
[15:10] <ogra_> seb128, it is what i was told ... not my design
[15:11] <seb128> ogra_, k
[15:11] <seb128> I'm going to blame Saviq
[15:11] <jasoncwarner_> seb128 ogra_ so what should we do for 13.10 then? (seb, you mentioned sound doesn't persist either? noted)
[15:11] <Saviq> seb128, and I'm taking your blame
[15:11] <seb128> jasoncwarner_, not a lot we can do, it's really a powerd thing...
[15:12] <Saviq> and going back somewhere else
[15:12] <seb128> jasoncwarner_, sound has the issue across reboots
[15:12] <seb128> Saviq, do you know if there is a bug discussing that something (just looking to unity8 bugs but didn't find one)
[15:13] <seb128> Saviq, though having unity8 handling the setting might be sense if we want by-user values
[15:15] <Saviq> seb128, don't think so, no
[15:16] <jasoncwarner_> seb128 Saviq I do see some sense in having the by user values for something like this, just fyi.
[15:20] <Saviq> seb128, pulseaudio stores your per-port/per-user volumes anyway
[15:20] <Saviq> seb128, so it does make sense to be per-user kind of
[15:20] <seb128> Saviq, right
[15:21] <Saviq> obviously then you lock your session...
[15:21] <seb128> Saviq, that's when fun start
[15:21] <Saviq> seb128, indeed ;)
[15:21] <seb128> Saviq, you can imagine doing the same was we do for background/keyboard, e.g apply the setting of the selected user
[15:23] <Saviq> seb128, I can imagine, yes, not sure I like to have that in my head ;D
[15:24] <Saviq> seb128, will you switch device owners with that, too ;)
[15:24] <seb128> hehe
[15:24] <Saviq> seb128, I think logging *in*/unlocking is the only place where user-stored volume/brightness should be applied
[15:25] <seb128> Saviq, that would be a bit weird, it would me that for a 1 user device, if you power it on and put it on the pocket you wouldn't get the right values until you unlock it
[15:26] <seb128> Saviq, it's like if the ringtone was wrong until you unlock it :p
[15:26] <seb128> seems buggy ;-)
[15:28] <Saviq> seb128, or well, yeah, on shutdown/power-up, too
[15:28] <Saviq> seb128, I meant for switching between users
[15:28] <seb128> right
[15:28] <Saviq> seb128, lock → nothing changes, unlock → new things are applied, shutdown → store, power on → restore
[15:29] <Saviq> seb128, question is - who turned the device off and who's turning it on :D
[15:29] <seb128> Saviq, yeah, I prefer not thinking too much about the multiple user scenarios yet ;-)
[15:59] <happyaron> pitti: when would I expect language packs available in -proposed?
[16:00] <happyaron> or anywhere can be downloaded and tested?
[16:22] <sil2100> Shiiit
[17:21]  * didrocks waves good evening
[18:14] <Mirv> me waves good night