/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/10/11/#ubuntu-uk.txt

=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
jmabudabiВітаю05:14
jmabudabiНу хоч боти зі мною привітаються?05:15
jmabudabiнемає((05:15
dwatkins!ru07:15
lubotu3Пожалуйста наберите /join #ubuntu-ru для получения помощи на русском языке. | Pozhalujsta naberite /join #ubuntu-ru dlya polucheniya pomoshi na russkom yazyke.07:15
dwatkinsah, they left07:16
MooDoomorning all07:24
dwatkinshiya MooDoo07:31
jussimorning peoples...07:50
popeyYes!07:55
JohnRoberthello07:55
JohnRobertanyone here going to zendcon in europe?07:56
bigcalmGood morning peeps :)08:04
TheOpenSourcerermorning08:08
MooDoomorning TheOpenSourcerer :)08:10
MooDoomorning bigcalm08:10
bigcalmo/08:19
SuperMatt\o08:23
MooDoonow the mornings are over, who's turn is it for the tea?08:28
* popey is on his 3rd tea08:32
* TheOpenSourcerer can't stand tea. Coffee #4 for me ;-)08:33
bigcalmGetting close to finishing my 1st. Will be on the coffee after that to try and wake up08:33
TardarSauceI should probably have some tea before the headache sets in08:34
* popey goes to mess up the kitchen now the cleaners have left08:35
bigcalmHehe08:36
brobostigongood morning everyone.08:40
* AlanBell puts on another pot of coffee08:41
SuperMattI'll just sit here drinking my dihydrogen monoxide08:42
popeyMe too! (enfused with tanin and other chemicals)08:43
popeymy wasp death bottle is filling up08:43
popeyi should clear it out08:44
SuperMattI daren't ask what that is08:44
JamesTaitGood morning all! Happy Friday, and happy Egg Day! :-D08:47
AlanBellegg day ?!?08:48
AlanBellyay, it really is http://thinkegg.com/index.php/world-egg-day08:48
popeySuperMatt: http://popey.com/webcam/08:49
SuperMattoh, I see08:49
JamesTaithttps://www.internationalegg.com/corporate/eggindustry/section.asp?id=2608:49
JamesTaitpopey, UFO? ;)08:50
popeyhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/Large-Garden-Honey-Beehive-Killer/dp/B004ZEEPYY08:51
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popey\o/ hotel booked for oggcamp09:22
funkyHatI went to oggcamp once!09:23
bigcalmpopey: snuggling up with Dave(2)?09:26
TardarSauceso yeah, I bought a phone for my sister last night. She seems pleased.09:27
* bigcalm eyes Dave - imposter09:27
bigcalmTardarSauce: a proper Finnish one?09:27
TardarSaucepft09:27
TardarSauceneva09:27
bigcalmHehe09:27
TardarSaucewell, maybe some day09:27
TardarSaucebut today is not that day09:27
bigcalmSadly09:27
TardarSauceanyway, a 16GB Nexus 4 from eBay, and some nice things to go with from Amazon09:28
Davebigcalm: nah, we spent ages trying to find a room with 2 beds that wasn't in the middle of nowhere and failed09:29
TardarSaucehttp://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51IImjw536L._SX342_.jpg and http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Looc2E9lL.jpg09:29
Dave(I think we mutually non-verbally decided not to share a bed in base2stay, or whatever the place is called.)09:31
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bigcalmAww10:01
DaveThe rooms said they're good for one, cosy for 2. Or something.10:03
davmor2Morning all10:14
bigcalmMorning davmor210:17
MooDoomorning davmor210:27
davmor2hey bigcalm MooDoo,  how's life?10:29
MooDoodavmor2: it's friday that says it's all10:32
MooDooerm i'm working tomorrow....doh!10:33
davmor2MooDoo: haha what that you made to Friday or that it is the end of the week thank god :D10:33
bigcalmdavmor2: coping with the week. Thankful that the weekend is almost here10:35
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
davmor2bigcalm: how many minute to the bigevent11:25
=== iahmad|afk is now known as iahmad
joshmyershey guys - don't suppose anyone in here is running openwrt using Sky fibre??12:14
MooDoohi joshmyers I'm not but if you ask your question, then if anyone is aware they may be able to help or point you in the right direction.12:24
dwatkinsI have the Tomato firmware on my router.12:24
joshmyersthx MooDoo12:24
bigcalmdavmor2: I won't be counting down the mins until the day12:29
davmor2bigcalm: haha12:30
icmpv6ikonia nigger12:30
icmpv6FUCKING NIGGER BITCH12:30
icmpv6I WILL RAPE YOUR MOTHER12:30
icmpv6FUCKING CUNT MOTHERFUCKER12:30
TardarSaucethank you for participation12:30
MooDoolol thanks TardarSauce :)12:31
diddledanI never have understood what so many trolls have against people from nigeria12:32
diddledannice that they came in via IPv6 though - even trolls are migrating to the new world order12:32
DJonesWhat I want to know is how many bridges have internet access, thats where they're supposed to live12:33
MooDooI personally loved the amount of different letters they used, so flowery :)12:34
diddledanDJones: maybe a sewer empties out under the bridge so they hooked into the sewer-fibre system (cityfibre?)12:34
diddledanH2O networks installs it12:35
diddledanhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7104011.stm from 200712:35
popeyMoving on.12:38
bigcalmdavmor2: T - 14 days, 1 hour, 48 mins12:41
davmor2bigcalm: \o/12:42
diddledanbigcalm: excited yet?12:46
bigcalmdiddledan: ill - been working hard and now that I don't have to work as hard, my body has given up12:47
bigcalmdiddledan: I'm sure I'll be excited later :)12:48
diddledan\o/12:49
MooDoowhats all the excitement about?13:06
GentileBendiddledan: they have issues with people from the nation of Niger.13:22
GentileBenI'd wager the majority of Americans think Africa is a country, anyway.13:22
davmor2MooDoo: bigcalm is final being made an honest man13:33
bigcalmdavmor2: how dare you. I shall never be honest13:34
davmor2bigcalm: you shall or hayley is gonna wail you into the middle of next month13:35
bigcalmWail me?13:41
davmor2bigcalm: Knock you for six I might of picked the wrong wail but whale didn't look right either13:45
DJonesYou should have said Wallop13:46
bigcalmAha, I see13:46
JohnRobertis the wayland compositor any good these days?14:01
diddledanJohnRobert: interested in "how the other half live"?14:03
diddledanubuntu will be using mir not wayland, so the other half is everyone that ain't buntu14:03
SuperMattI think it's more Keeping up with the Jones'14:03
diddledanmy fence is bigger than your fence!14:04
SuperMatttbh, I don't give a stuff if I end up with wayland or mir, I'm just going to be happy to wave good bye to X1114:04
diddledanI'm going to miss the network transparency of X14:05
SuperMattI really haven't xforwarded anything in a long time14:06
diddledanI like being able to ssh -X into my server and run virt-manager without worrying about the fact that it doesn't work on OS X14:06
SuperMattthing is, I'm sure someone will be able to hack in some kind of forwarding that's a little better than VNC14:07
diddledanthat's the thing - everyone who's said that it won't be a problem for those of us used to it has suggested that vnc would be the answer14:08
diddledanI accept that it's a niche activity, but it's very useful when you get used to it14:09
SuperMattoh, I agree14:12
SuperMattI think there has to be a better way, I don't always want to see the entire desktop14:13
SuperMattwhat I would *really* like to see is a way to interact with a single application in its current running state14:14
SuperMattso I can sit on my bed and control the music player through its own gui14:14
ali1234SuperMatt: the problem is that the wayland developers think VNC is already better than X11, when it is quite obviously not if you've ever actually used it14:14
diddledanhow can they feel that exporting a display is better than exporting an application when all you want is the application?14:15
SuperMattagreed14:15
diddledanby display I am also including virtual headless "displays" that exist in memory14:15
ali1234that isn't even the biggest problem with VNC14:15
SuperMattand tbh, vnc *is* terrible14:15
SuperMattthe biggest problem with VNC is that it sends plain text passwords14:16
SuperMattanyone not familiar with port forwarding won't know how to get around that14:16
ali1234no, that can be solved with an ssh tunnel - X11 does it too14:16
SuperMattbut tunneling is quite difficult for a noob to get their head around14:17
ali1234the biggest problem with VNC is it can never really know if a window changed or not14:17
diddledanit _could_ binary diff two independent frames, but that's computationally expensive14:18
SuperMattugg, yeah, having to force a refresh all the time irks me no end14:19
diddledanX11 just works14:19
ali1234yes. the second biggest problem with VNC is applications don't know you're using it. if you run mplayer over X11 it will fall back to X11 rendering which works. on VNC, you'll probably just get a pink rectangle14:20
diddledanthe not knowing when a window updates is even worse with compositing because the window manager doesn't get notified when the window updates14:21
diddledanafaik14:21
diddledanI'm treading into theory here and not using my learned knowledge14:21
ali1234well, with wayland the window manager is the compositor14:21
diddledanyeah, but the compositor doesn't know when a window updates either afaict14:22
ali1234yeah14:22
diddledanthe app is given a memory range and draws whatever it likes in there and the compositor blats that onto a surface14:22
ali1234basically in order to make remoting work you need that three way sync that wayland is deigned to remove14:22
diddledanthe compositor doesn't care about what the app does with it's "window"14:23
ali1234client side decorations are also a problem if you don't like your desktop to look like this: http://wayland.freedesktop.org/rootless-x-under-wayland.png14:24
diddledanwhatever happens, if it's not X then it's going to be painful, simply because X is so entrenched - will apple or a third party make a compatible layer for os x for e.g. like they have with xquartz? will there be a similar movement on MS Windows?14:28
ali1234that would probably be easier tbh14:28
diddledanand let's not forget our brothers in BSD land14:28
ali1234xquartz is awful btw and i expect xmir, xwayland to be equally bad14:29
diddledanyeah, xquartz is evil. I hate that it behaves as a single application with multiple windows rather than multiple applications each with their own window - apple could have made X11 a first-party compatibility layer within quartz itself, but instead they made it as a bolt-on afterthought14:31
diddledanimagine if they'd made quartz api and x11 api siblings rather than parent-child14:32
SuperEngineerAnnoyed - Pidgin doesn't seem to understand UTF-8... silly pidgin [no more breadcrumbs for you, pidgin!]14:32
ali1234SuperEngineer: how so?14:32
diddledanSuperEngineer: sure it isn't just the font you're using?14:32
SuperEngineeri type <Ctrl.,;. in here [Xchat] - set to UTF-8... I get ☺14:33
SuperEngineeri type <Ctrl>,;> in here [Xchat] - set to UTF-8... I get ☺14:33
SuperEngineer[sorry distracted by phone ringing while typing14:34
ali1234that is not utf814:34
ali1234that is IME14:34
SuperEngineeri type <Ctrl><;> in here [Xchat] - set to UTF-8... I get ☺14:34
ali1234☺ - sent with pidgin14:34
SuperEngineerhmmm ... stand corrected14:35
diddledanI've managed to convince my co-workers that the saucy release of ubuntu is in fact called "slimy squid"14:35
SuperEngineerwhen I try - recipient says... "I can only see a little box!"14:35
ali1234they don't have the font then14:35
ali1234💩14:36
ali1234nobody has this character in their fonts ever ^14:36
diddledanhtf did you get that two-toned?14:36
ali1234two-toned?14:36
diddledanI'm gonna have to screenshot it14:36
ali1234probably your irc client can't handle utf-8!14:36
TardarSaucehttp://www.iemoji.com/view/emoji/55/smileys/dog-dirt14:37
TardarSauceis it?14:37
TardarSauce:-P14:37
ali1234"PILE-OF-POO" yes14:37
TardarSauceah yes14:37
ali1234do you actually have a font with it so you can see it??14:38
ali1234if so, which one?14:38
diddledanwhere can I post this screenshot?14:38
ali1234diddledan: imagebin.org, imgur...14:38
directhexi see the PILE OF POO just fine.14:38
rocky____hi14:38
MooDoohello14:39
rocky____hello14:39
ali1234hi14:39
directhexhi14:39
rocky____can u hep me about wubi?14:39
MooDoo!ask14:39
lubotu3Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience14:39
rocky____i am trying to install ubuntu using wubi without internet is it possible?14:39
TardarSauceright, symbola14:40
TardarSauceaw, no debian package14:40
rocky____i hav ubuntu-12.10-desktop-i386.iso14:40
diddledanhttp://imagebin.org/27338014:40
diddledansee? two-toned14:40
ali1234diddledan: not really... what exactly is two-toned?14:41
diddledanali1234: brown turd, white eyes and mouth, black pupils14:41
directhexisn't wubi dead?14:41
ali1234oh, well, your irc client is dislaying a bitmap, not a font14:41
rocky____it  is giving erroe14:41
TardarSaucedirecthex: sadly on14:42
TardarSauceno14:42
rocky____Could not retrieve the required disk image files14:42
popeyrocky____: http://askubuntu.com/questions/43029/ubuntu-on-windows-without-internet14:42
rocky____thank u popey14:43
popey np14:43
rocky____but eventhough im running both wubi and distributor placed in same folder wubi gives me error14:43
rocky____Could not retrieve the required disk image files14:43
TardarSauceoh, the font problem seems to be bug 82003414:44
lubotu3bug 820034 in Ubuntu Font Family "Expansion: Miscellaneous Symbols and Pictographs U+1F4A9" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/82003414:44
SuperEngineerwow14:44
TardarSauceI'm not sure tho14:46
diddledanI like mark's response: We're design driven. If we have to do poo, let's make it an elegant one ;-)14:47
ali1234i now have 102 games on steam, 51 of which are supposed to work on linux :)14:51
SuperMatt\o/14:53
SuperMattsometimes there's some problem with a game working in 64bit14:53
SuperMattwhich is frustrating14:53
kecskebakYou don't need steam when you have ClapTraps - it's the only game you'll ever need ;) https://sites.google.com/site/testpilotmonkeyproductions/14:54
diddledanali1234: you're about 50% of the way to enlightenment then14:55
=== Dave is now known as Dave2
MooDoodiddledan: enlightenment? what you compiling that with ;)14:59
MooDooyeah ok wasn't funny15:03
diploafternoon all15:10
TardarSaucemöh.15:10
MooDoodiplo: HULLO15:10
SuperMattit is indeed the afternoon15:10
SuperMattand it is a sad one15:10
diploAny of you guys play any type of Flight simulator, have a friend whose 10 year old son wants to get into it and I know *nothing* basically about them15:10
SuperMattthe office has been denied our usual friday cake because some people haven't filled in their time sheets :(15:11
SuperMattX-Plane15:11
diploPlays on ipad atm and the mum has just bought a PC/joystick and wants to know what to by15:11
SuperMattis apparently the best15:11
SuperMattworks in linux too15:11
diploOK ta, on the site now finding specs :)15:12
diddledanit can be difficult due to it's unwavering pursuit of realism15:12
diploI've mentioned that to her, and I said it can get expensive if he really gets into it15:13
diploSo trying to work out a spec that's not overly expensive15:13
ali1234there aren't many flight sims any more15:14
SuperMattthem specs for x-plane aren't bad by today's standards15:15
diploIn the old days it was always the MS one from memory.. couldn't get into it myself15:15
bigcalm!lts16:09
lubotu3LTS means Long Term Support. LTS versions of Ubuntu will be supported for 3 years on the desktop, and 5 years on the server; with the exception of 12.04 (Precise Pangolin), which will be supported for 5 years on the desktop. The current LTS version of Ubuntu is !Precise (Precise Pangolin 12.04)16:09
bigcalm2017?16:09
bigcalmeol16:10
bigcalm!Precise16:10
lubotu3Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (Precise Pangolin) is the current !LTS release of Ubuntu.  Download http://releases.ubuntu.com/12.04/ - Release Info: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/120416:10
awilkinsEOL is 17.1016:12
diddledanubuntu stops after 17.10?16:13
awilkinsNo, end of life for 12.04 is october 201716:13
diddledanis that the target for the rolling release? :-p16:13
=== awilkins is now known as dr_barnowl
dr_barnowlWork have decided to study porting all our code to the MS stack16:14
dr_barnowlWhich basically means they've decided to do it16:14
* dr_barnowl wonders if Canonical is hiring16:15
diddledanthey think the pain of porting will give them a beneficial ROI?16:16
dr_barnowlThe beneficial ROI is that the guy in charge of the much larger MS stack based team will build his empire larger16:16
jpdsdr_barnowl: Always hiring.16:17
diddledanaah, you've already got ms stuff in-house16:17
dr_barnowlWell, it will be a nice relaxing three months of documenting and explaining a few tens of thousands of lines of Java code16:17
dr_barnowlPresuming my job interview next week goes well...16:17
dr_barnowlThe thing I want to see most on Ubuntu, having been stuck behind a flipping ISA server proxy... is a unified proxy architecture16:21
dr_barnowlI have a multi-pronged plan of attack16:21
dr_barnowlI) OS runs a proxy daemon16:21
dr_barnowlThis is because not everything can process i) PAC scripts ii) Stupid auth methods like NTLM16:22
dr_barnowlII) OS can socksify things16:22
dr_barnowlSee I) but add "some things don't do proxies"16:22
dr_barnowlThings that are happy calling the "what's teh proxy" call and getting a PAC script can carry on doing it16:23
dr_barnowlTHing sthat are happy getting a nice simple "PROXY 127.1.1.1:8080" can get that, after the OS has parsed the PAC script for them16:24
dr_barnowlThings that can't cope with proxies can get socksified16:24
diddledanthe question is where that needs to be implemented16:24
dr_barnowlAnd behold, you no longer have the situation where what should be first-class apps shipped with the distro like Ubuntu One just can't cope with proxies16:25
diddledani.e. the kernel? the libc? an LD_PRELOAD library?16:25
dr_barnowlReally I'd just like people to stop being silly and use transparent proxies... but they do love their MS ISA Server16:25
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
diddledancan't isa be configged to run transparent?16:26
dr_barnowlWell, good questions... I usually get away with running a proxy like ntlmaps in a user process16:26
dr_barnowlDunno enough about ISA - the story from ICT is they can't configure it to do access control lists on just our MAC addresses which sounds suspect but meh16:27
dr_barnowlSome of us are allowed to download stuff from *gasp* sourceforge and the like, and some of us aint16:27
SuperMattman, gnome 3.10 looks proper awesome16:28
diddledanreally? proper awesome?16:29
diddledanmeh, it looks a bit fake awesome around the edges to me :-p16:29
SuperMattI think it's good to see a team trying something a little different16:30
SuperMattand I like it16:30
diddledanI've not actually seen what they've been working on16:31
SuperMatthome time16:31
SuperMatto/16:31
* dr_barnowl thinks about learning C++16:51
Myrttithat was fun as long as it lasted.18:00
ali1234SuperMatt: literally everyone is falling over themselves to try to be "different" and it is getting a bit tiresome, frankly18:10
apacheukanyone else having trouble connecting to Steam after the update?18:28
Azelphurapacheuk: no issues here18:29
apacheukhmmm18:29
=== MattJ1000 is now known as MattJ
shaunolooks like a half-decent ISS pass in a few minutes, if your weather's anything like ours  (coooold but clear)20:22
shauno(or maybe sooner, since I'm further west than most of you)20:22
StevenRshauno: over .uk?20:36
shaunonot sure now.  my program says so, I couldn't see a thing20:36
shaunohm, interesting.  app on my phone says it'll be here in 1hr21 minutes, which sounds like it just went past.  gpredict on my laptop says it just broke the horizon a minute ago.  now who do I believe?20:41
mgdmboth? :)20:42
mgdmI use heavens-above.com20:42
daftykinsit's like winter here today, rain all night :S20:49
shaunoit's actually clear here, which is quite rare.  hence trying20:51
* Myrtti shakes her head22:28
daftykinswhat's up?22:29
MyrttiI'm just looking at my hilights going mad at #ubuntu22:29
daftykinsheh, i thought that was you for a bit before i read the nick closer22:29
Myrttimwahahahaha now it's grouped to my nickname22:46
Myrttiand I shall *never* give it up.22:46
daftykinsyou fiend, you22:46
Myrttiawful innit22:47
daftykinsTHERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!22:48
daftykins(Myrtti)22:48
Myrttiseriously though, staff nicks are abused so often by spammers etc that I rest a bit easier when I know atleast that one (which I have hilights for, because Finnish language!) in unusable22:49
daftykinsthat's true22:50
=== funkyHat_ is now known as funkyHat
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away

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