[05:14] <jmabudabi> Вітаю
[05:15] <jmabudabi> Ну хоч боти зі мною привітаються?
[05:15] <jmabudabi> немає((
[07:15] <dwatkins> !ru
[07:16] <dwatkins> ah, they left
[07:24] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:31] <dwatkins> hiya MooDoo
[07:50] <jussi> morning peoples...
[07:55] <popey> Yes!
[07:55] <JohnRobert> hello
[07:56] <JohnRobert> anyone here going to zendcon in europe?
[08:04] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning
[08:10] <MooDoo> morning TheOpenSourcerer :)
[08:10] <MooDoo> morning bigcalm
[08:19] <bigcalm> o/
[08:23] <SuperMatt> \o
[08:28] <MooDoo> now the mornings are over, who's turn is it for the tea?
[08:32]  * popey is on his 3rd tea
[08:33]  * TheOpenSourcerer can't stand tea. Coffee #4 for me ;-)
[08:33] <bigcalm> Getting close to finishing my 1st. Will be on the coffee after that to try and wake up
[08:34] <TardarSauce> I should probably have some tea before the headache sets in
[08:35]  * popey goes to mess up the kitchen now the cleaners have left
[08:36] <bigcalm> Hehe
[08:40] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[08:41]  * AlanBell puts on another pot of coffee
[08:42] <SuperMatt> I'll just sit here drinking my dihydrogen monoxide
[08:43] <popey> Me too! (enfused with tanin and other chemicals)
[08:43] <popey> my wasp death bottle is filling up
[08:44] <popey> i should clear it out
[08:44] <SuperMatt> I daren't ask what that is
[08:47] <JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday, and happy Egg Day! :-D
[08:48] <AlanBell> egg day ?!?
[08:48] <AlanBell> yay, it really is http://thinkegg.com/index.php/world-egg-day
[08:49] <popey> SuperMatt: http://popey.com/webcam/
[08:49] <SuperMatt> oh, I see
[08:49] <JamesTait> https://www.internationalegg.com/corporate/eggindustry/section.asp?id=26
[08:50] <JamesTait> popey, UFO? ;)
[08:51] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Large-Garden-Honey-Beehive-Killer/dp/B004ZEEPYY
[09:22] <popey> \o/ hotel booked for oggcamp
[09:23] <funkyHat> I went to oggcamp once!
[09:26] <bigcalm> popey: snuggling up with Dave(2)?
[09:27] <TardarSauce> so yeah, I bought a phone for my sister last night. She seems pleased.
[09:27]  * bigcalm eyes Dave - imposter
[09:27] <bigcalm> TardarSauce: a proper Finnish one?
[09:27] <TardarSauce> pft
[09:27] <TardarSauce> neva
[09:27] <bigcalm> Hehe
[09:27] <TardarSauce> well, maybe some day
[09:27] <TardarSauce> but today is not that day
[09:27] <bigcalm> Sadly
[09:28] <TardarSauce> anyway, a 16GB Nexus 4 from eBay, and some nice things to go with from Amazon
[09:29] <Dave> bigcalm: nah, we spent ages trying to find a room with 2 beds that wasn't in the middle of nowhere and failed
[09:29] <TardarSauce> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51IImjw536L._SX342_.jpg and http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Looc2E9lL.jpg
[09:31] <Dave> (I think we mutually non-verbally decided not to share a bed in base2stay, or whatever the place is called.)
[10:01] <bigcalm> Aww
[10:03] <Dave> The rooms said they're good for one, cosy for 2. Or something.
[10:14] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:17] <bigcalm> Morning davmor2
[10:27] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[10:29] <davmor2> hey bigcalm MooDoo,  how's life?
[10:32] <MooDoo> davmor2: it's friday that says it's all
[10:33] <MooDoo> erm i'm working tomorrow....doh!
[10:33] <davmor2> MooDoo: haha what that you made to Friday or that it is the end of the week thank god :D
[10:35] <bigcalm> davmor2: coping with the week. Thankful that the weekend is almost here
[11:25] <davmor2> bigcalm: how many minute to the bigevent
[12:14] <joshmyers> hey guys - don't suppose anyone in here is running openwrt using Sky fibre??
[12:24] <MooDoo> hi joshmyers I'm not but if you ask your question, then if anyone is aware they may be able to help or point you in the right direction.
[12:24] <dwatkins> I have the Tomato firmware on my router.
[12:24] <joshmyers> thx MooDoo
[12:29] <bigcalm> davmor2: I won't be counting down the mins until the day
[12:30] <davmor2> bigcalm: haha
[12:30] <icmpv6> ikonia nigger
[12:30] <icmpv6> FUCKING NIGGER BITCH
[12:30] <icmpv6> I WILL RAPE YOUR MOTHER
[12:30] <icmpv6> FUCKING CUNT MOTHERFUCKER
[12:30] <TardarSauce> thank you for participation
[12:31] <MooDoo> lol thanks TardarSauce :)
[12:32] <diddledan> I never have understood what so many trolls have against people from nigeria
[12:32] <diddledan> nice that they came in via IPv6 though - even trolls are migrating to the new world order
[12:33] <DJones> What I want to know is how many bridges have internet access, thats where they're supposed to live
[12:34] <MooDoo> I personally loved the amount of different letters they used, so flowery :)
[12:34] <diddledan> DJones: maybe a sewer empties out under the bridge so they hooked into the sewer-fibre system (cityfibre?)
[12:35] <diddledan> H2O networks installs it
[12:35] <diddledan> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7104011.stm from 2007
[12:38] <popey> Moving on.
[12:41] <bigcalm> davmor2: T - 14 days, 1 hour, 48 mins
[12:42] <davmor2> bigcalm: \o/
[12:46] <diddledan> bigcalm: excited yet?
[12:47] <bigcalm> diddledan: ill - been working hard and now that I don't have to work as hard, my body has given up
[12:48] <bigcalm> diddledan: I'm sure I'll be excited later :)
[12:49] <diddledan> \o/
[13:06] <MooDoo> whats all the excitement about?
[13:22] <GentileBen> diddledan: they have issues with people from the nation of Niger.
[13:22] <GentileBen> I'd wager the majority of Americans think Africa is a country, anyway.
[13:33] <davmor2> MooDoo: bigcalm is final being made an honest man
[13:34] <bigcalm> davmor2: how dare you. I shall never be honest
[13:35] <davmor2> bigcalm: you shall or hayley is gonna wail you into the middle of next month
[13:41] <bigcalm> Wail me?
[13:45] <davmor2> bigcalm: Knock you for six I might of picked the wrong wail but whale didn't look right either
[13:46] <DJones> You should have said Wallop
[13:46] <bigcalm> Aha, I see
[14:01] <JohnRobert> is the wayland compositor any good these days?
[14:03] <diddledan> JohnRobert: interested in "how the other half live"?
[14:03] <diddledan> ubuntu will be using mir not wayland, so the other half is everyone that ain't buntu
[14:03] <SuperMatt> I think it's more Keeping up with the Jones'
[14:04] <diddledan> my fence is bigger than your fence!
[14:04] <SuperMatt> tbh, I don't give a stuff if I end up with wayland or mir, I'm just going to be happy to wave good bye to X11
[14:05] <diddledan> I'm going to miss the network transparency of X
[14:06] <SuperMatt> I really haven't xforwarded anything in a long time
[14:06] <diddledan> I like being able to ssh -X into my server and run virt-manager without worrying about the fact that it doesn't work on OS X
[14:07] <SuperMatt> thing is, I'm sure someone will be able to hack in some kind of forwarding that's a little better than VNC
[14:08] <diddledan> that's the thing - everyone who's said that it won't be a problem for those of us used to it has suggested that vnc would be the answer
[14:09] <diddledan> I accept that it's a niche activity, but it's very useful when you get used to it
[14:12] <SuperMatt> oh, I agree
[14:13] <SuperMatt> I think there has to be a better way, I don't always want to see the entire desktop
[14:14] <SuperMatt> what I would *really* like to see is a way to interact with a single application in its current running state
[14:14] <SuperMatt> so I can sit on my bed and control the music player through its own gui
[14:14] <ali1234> SuperMatt: the problem is that the wayland developers think VNC is already better than X11, when it is quite obviously not if you've ever actually used it
[14:15] <diddledan> how can they feel that exporting a display is better than exporting an application when all you want is the application?
[14:15] <SuperMatt> agreed
[14:15] <diddledan> by display I am also including virtual headless "displays" that exist in memory
[14:15] <ali1234> that isn't even the biggest problem with VNC
[14:15] <SuperMatt> and tbh, vnc *is* terrible
[14:16] <SuperMatt> the biggest problem with VNC is that it sends plain text passwords
[14:16] <SuperMatt> anyone not familiar with port forwarding won't know how to get around that
[14:16] <ali1234> no, that can be solved with an ssh tunnel - X11 does it too
[14:17] <SuperMatt> but tunneling is quite difficult for a noob to get their head around
[14:17] <ali1234> the biggest problem with VNC is it can never really know if a window changed or not
[14:18] <diddledan> it _could_ binary diff two independent frames, but that's computationally expensive
[14:19] <SuperMatt> ugg, yeah, having to force a refresh all the time irks me no end
[14:19] <diddledan> X11 just works
[14:20] <ali1234> yes. the second biggest problem with VNC is applications don't know you're using it. if you run mplayer over X11 it will fall back to X11 rendering which works. on VNC, you'll probably just get a pink rectangle
[14:21] <diddledan> the not knowing when a window updates is even worse with compositing because the window manager doesn't get notified when the window updates
[14:21] <diddledan> afaik
[14:21] <diddledan> I'm treading into theory here and not using my learned knowledge
[14:21] <ali1234> well, with wayland the window manager is the compositor
[14:22] <diddledan> yeah, but the compositor doesn't know when a window updates either afaict
[14:22] <ali1234> yeah
[14:22] <diddledan> the app is given a memory range and draws whatever it likes in there and the compositor blats that onto a surface
[14:22] <ali1234> basically in order to make remoting work you need that three way sync that wayland is deigned to remove
[14:23] <diddledan> the compositor doesn't care about what the app does with it's "window"
[14:24] <ali1234> client side decorations are also a problem if you don't like your desktop to look like this: http://wayland.freedesktop.org/rootless-x-under-wayland.png
[14:28] <diddledan> whatever happens, if it's not X then it's going to be painful, simply because X is so entrenched - will apple or a third party make a compatible layer for os x for e.g. like they have with xquartz? will there be a similar movement on MS Windows?
[14:28] <ali1234> that would probably be easier tbh
[14:28] <diddledan> and let's not forget our brothers in BSD land
[14:29] <ali1234> xquartz is awful btw and i expect xmir, xwayland to be equally bad
[14:31] <diddledan> yeah, xquartz is evil. I hate that it behaves as a single application with multiple windows rather than multiple applications each with their own window - apple could have made X11 a first-party compatibility layer within quartz itself, but instead they made it as a bolt-on afterthought
[14:32] <diddledan> imagine if they'd made quartz api and x11 api siblings rather than parent-child
[14:32] <SuperEngineer> Annoyed - Pidgin doesn't seem to understand UTF-8... silly pidgin [no more breadcrumbs for you, pidgin!]
[14:32] <ali1234> SuperEngineer: how so?
[14:32] <diddledan> SuperEngineer: sure it isn't just the font you're using?
[14:33] <SuperEngineer> i type <Ctrl.,;. in here [Xchat] - set to UTF-8... I get ☺
[14:33] <SuperEngineer> i type <Ctrl>,;> in here [Xchat] - set to UTF-8... I get ☺
[14:34] <SuperEngineer> [sorry distracted by phone ringing while typing
[14:34] <ali1234> that is not utf8
[14:34] <ali1234> that is IME
[14:34] <SuperEngineer> i type <Ctrl><;> in here [Xchat] - set to UTF-8... I get ☺
[14:34] <ali1234> ☺ - sent with pidgin
[14:35] <SuperEngineer> hmmm ... stand corrected
[14:35] <diddledan> I've managed to convince my co-workers that the saucy release of ubuntu is in fact called "slimy squid"
[14:35] <SuperEngineer> when I try - recipient says... "I can only see a little box!"
[14:35] <ali1234> they don't have the font then
[14:36] <ali1234> 💩
[14:36] <ali1234> nobody has this character in their fonts ever ^
[14:36] <diddledan> htf did you get that two-toned?
[14:36] <ali1234> two-toned?
[14:36] <diddledan> I'm gonna have to screenshot it
[14:36] <ali1234> probably your irc client can't handle utf-8!
[14:37] <TardarSauce> http://www.iemoji.com/view/emoji/55/smileys/dog-dirt
[14:37] <TardarSauce> is it?
[14:37] <TardarSauce> :-P
[14:37] <ali1234> "PILE-OF-POO" yes
[14:37] <TardarSauce> ah yes
[14:38] <ali1234> do you actually have a font with it so you can see it??
[14:38] <ali1234> if so, which one?
[14:38] <diddledan> where can I post this screenshot?
[14:38] <ali1234> diddledan: imagebin.org, imgur...
[14:38] <directhex> i see the PILE OF POO just fine.
[14:38] <rocky____> hi
[14:39] <MooDoo> hello
[14:39] <rocky____> hello
[14:39] <ali1234> hi
[14:39] <directhex> hi
[14:39] <rocky____> can u hep me about wubi?
[14:39] <MooDoo> !ask
[14:39] <rocky____> i am trying to install ubuntu using wubi without internet is it possible?
[14:40] <TardarSauce> right, symbola
[14:40] <TardarSauce> aw, no debian package
[14:40] <rocky____> i hav ubuntu-12.10-desktop-i386.iso
[14:40] <diddledan> http://imagebin.org/273380
[14:40] <diddledan> see? two-toned
[14:41] <ali1234> diddledan: not really... what exactly is two-toned?
[14:41] <diddledan> ali1234: brown turd, white eyes and mouth, black pupils
[14:41] <directhex> isn't wubi dead?
[14:41] <ali1234> oh, well, your irc client is dislaying a bitmap, not a font
[14:41] <rocky____> it  is giving erroe
[14:42] <TardarSauce> directhex: sadly on
[14:42] <TardarSauce> no
[14:42] <rocky____> Could not retrieve the required disk image files
[14:42] <popey> rocky____: http://askubuntu.com/questions/43029/ubuntu-on-windows-without-internet
[14:43] <rocky____> thank u popey
[14:43] <popey>  np
[14:43] <rocky____> but eventhough im running both wubi and distributor placed in same folder wubi gives me error
[14:43] <rocky____> Could not retrieve the required disk image files
[14:44] <TardarSauce> oh, the font problem seems to be bug 820034
[14:44] <SuperEngineer> wow
[14:46] <TardarSauce> I'm not sure tho
[14:47] <diddledan> I like mark's response: We're design driven. If we have to do poo, let's make it an elegant one ;-)
[14:51] <ali1234> i now have 102 games on steam, 51 of which are supposed to work on linux :)
[14:53] <SuperMatt> \o/
[14:53] <SuperMatt> sometimes there's some problem with a game working in 64bit
[14:53] <SuperMatt> which is frustrating
[14:54] <kecskebak> You don't need steam when you have ClapTraps - it's the only game you'll ever need ;) https://sites.google.com/site/testpilotmonkeyproductions/
[14:55] <diddledan> ali1234: you're about 50% of the way to enlightenment then
[14:59] <MooDoo> diddledan: enlightenment? what you compiling that with ;)
[15:03] <MooDoo> yeah ok wasn't funny
[15:10] <diplo> afternoon all
[15:10] <TardarSauce> möh.
[15:10] <MooDoo> diplo: HULLO
[15:10] <SuperMatt> it is indeed the afternoon
[15:10] <SuperMatt> and it is a sad one
[15:10] <diplo> Any of you guys play any type of Flight simulator, have a friend whose 10 year old son wants to get into it and I know *nothing* basically about them
[15:11] <SuperMatt> the office has been denied our usual friday cake because some people haven't filled in their time sheets :(
[15:11] <SuperMatt> X-Plane
[15:11] <diplo> Plays on ipad atm and the mum has just bought a PC/joystick and wants to know what to by
[15:11] <SuperMatt> is apparently the best
[15:11] <SuperMatt> works in linux too
[15:12] <diplo> OK ta, on the site now finding specs :)
[15:12] <diddledan> it can be difficult due to it's unwavering pursuit of realism
[15:13] <diplo> I've mentioned that to her, and I said it can get expensive if he really gets into it
[15:13] <diplo> So trying to work out a spec that's not overly expensive
[15:14] <ali1234> there aren't many flight sims any more
[15:15] <SuperMatt> them specs for x-plane aren't bad by today's standards
[15:15] <diplo> In the old days it was always the MS one from memory.. couldn't get into it myself
[16:09] <bigcalm> !lts
[16:09] <bigcalm> 2017?
[16:10] <bigcalm> eol
[16:10] <bigcalm> !Precise
[16:12] <awilkins> EOL is 17.10
[16:13] <diddledan> ubuntu stops after 17.10?
[16:13] <awilkins> No, end of life for 12.04 is october 2017
[16:13] <diddledan> is that the target for the rolling release? :-p
[16:14] <dr_barnowl> Work have decided to study porting all our code to the MS stack
[16:14] <dr_barnowl> Which basically means they've decided to do it
[16:15]  * dr_barnowl wonders if Canonical is hiring
[16:16] <diddledan> they think the pain of porting will give them a beneficial ROI?
[16:16] <dr_barnowl> The beneficial ROI is that the guy in charge of the much larger MS stack based team will build his empire larger
[16:17] <jpds> dr_barnowl: Always hiring.
[16:17] <diddledan> aah, you've already got ms stuff in-house
[16:17] <dr_barnowl> Well, it will be a nice relaxing three months of documenting and explaining a few tens of thousands of lines of Java code
[16:17] <dr_barnowl> Presuming my job interview next week goes well...
[16:21] <dr_barnowl> The thing I want to see most on Ubuntu, having been stuck behind a flipping ISA server proxy... is a unified proxy architecture
[16:21] <dr_barnowl> I have a multi-pronged plan of attack
[16:21] <dr_barnowl> I) OS runs a proxy daemon
[16:22] <dr_barnowl> This is because not everything can process i) PAC scripts ii) Stupid auth methods like NTLM
[16:22] <dr_barnowl> II) OS can socksify things
[16:22] <dr_barnowl> See I) but add "some things don't do proxies"
[16:23] <dr_barnowl> Things that are happy calling the "what's teh proxy" call and getting a PAC script can carry on doing it
[16:24] <dr_barnowl> THing sthat are happy getting a nice simple "PROXY 127.1.1.1:8080" can get that, after the OS has parsed the PAC script for them
[16:24] <dr_barnowl> Things that can't cope with proxies can get socksified
[16:24] <diddledan> the question is where that needs to be implemented
[16:25] <dr_barnowl> And behold, you no longer have the situation where what should be first-class apps shipped with the distro like Ubuntu One just can't cope with proxies
[16:25] <diddledan> i.e. the kernel? the libc? an LD_PRELOAD library?
[16:25] <dr_barnowl> Really I'd just like people to stop being silly and use transparent proxies... but they do love their MS ISA Server
[16:26] <diddledan> can't isa be configged to run transparent?
[16:26] <dr_barnowl> Well, good questions... I usually get away with running a proxy like ntlmaps in a user process
[16:27] <dr_barnowl> Dunno enough about ISA - the story from ICT is they can't configure it to do access control lists on just our MAC addresses which sounds suspect but meh
[16:27] <dr_barnowl> Some of us are allowed to download stuff from *gasp* sourceforge and the like, and some of us aint
[16:28] <SuperMatt> man, gnome 3.10 looks proper awesome
[16:29] <diddledan> really? proper awesome?
[16:29] <diddledan> meh, it looks a bit fake awesome around the edges to me :-p
[16:30] <SuperMatt> I think it's good to see a team trying something a little different
[16:30] <SuperMatt> and I like it
[16:31] <diddledan> I've not actually seen what they've been working on
[16:31] <SuperMatt> home time
[16:31] <SuperMatt> o/
[16:51]  * dr_barnowl thinks about learning C++
[18:00] <Myrtti> that was fun as long as it lasted.
[18:10] <ali1234> SuperMatt: literally everyone is falling over themselves to try to be "different" and it is getting a bit tiresome, frankly
[18:28] <apacheuk> anyone else having trouble connecting to Steam after the update?
[18:29] <Azelphur> apacheuk: no issues here
[18:29] <apacheuk> hmmm
[20:22] <shauno> looks like a half-decent ISS pass in a few minutes, if your weather's anything like ours  (coooold but clear)
[20:22] <shauno> (or maybe sooner, since I'm further west than most of you)
[20:36] <StevenR> shauno: over .uk?
[20:36] <shauno> not sure now.  my program says so, I couldn't see a thing
[20:41] <shauno> hm, interesting.  app on my phone says it'll be here in 1hr21 minutes, which sounds like it just went past.  gpredict on my laptop says it just broke the horizon a minute ago.  now who do I believe?
[20:42] <mgdm> both? :)
[20:42] <mgdm> I use heavens-above.com
[20:49] <daftykins> it's like winter here today, rain all night :S
[20:51] <shauno> it's actually clear here, which is quite rare.  hence trying
[22:28]  * Myrtti shakes her head
[22:29] <daftykins> what's up?
[22:29] <Myrtti> I'm just looking at my hilights going mad at #ubuntu
[22:29] <daftykins> heh, i thought that was you for a bit before i read the nick closer
[22:46] <Myrtti> mwahahahaha now it's grouped to my nickname
[22:46] <Myrtti> and I shall *never* give it up.
[22:46] <daftykins> you fiend, you
[22:47] <Myrtti> awful innit
[22:48] <daftykins> THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!
[22:48] <daftykins> (Myrtti)
[22:49] <Myrtti> seriously though, staff nicks are abused so often by spammers etc that I rest a bit easier when I know atleast that one (which I have hilights for, because Finnish language!) in unusable
[22:50] <daftykins> that's true