[01:01] knome: Should we add something about python3 to the blueprint? [01:02] And should we add something about whiskermenu? [01:25] yeah [02:56] micahg: Is there anything i can do to help with the remaining uploads we need? [02:58] I think I'm ok with xfce4-panel now, will start on it in a little bit [02:58] ok. [02:59] one other thing, what's the process for joining the ~xubuntu-dev team? [03:01] just for bzr, familiarity with good branch practices and packaging [06:41] My parents have decided that xubuntu is a bad influence on me, so i won't be able to do anything other than small amounts of irc for the next 24 hours. sorry [07:30] Corsec pulled xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin in, for those of you that care. [07:37] Unit193: fyi, i said that two days ago and Most of the work was one of the linux mint devs [07:37] bluesabre: PING [07:38] But it wasn't in NEW, so not in repo or anywhere close to installable. :) [07:38] good point, it was just the svn that mati and i got it to. [08:24] good morning people :) [09:03] Unit193: cool! that's good news, so we can basically sync that "for free" [09:03] It'll autosync for Trixy Tiger. [09:03] mm, yummy [09:08] morning all [09:23] anybody know what Noskcaj wanted from me? [09:23] not really, maybe it was about python3? [09:25] or being on xubuntu-dev [09:26] * bluesabre needs to finish his developer application today [09:26] mm [09:28] hm [09:28] patching light-locker for gdm, seems a bit redundant [09:28] ;) [09:29] yeah, but that's for *bsd [09:29] and they don't have the latest gdm i think, which includes the locking [09:29] ah, I see [09:29] but we'll see whether that's gonna happne [09:29] for now i love the screensaver-autolocking [10:30] I still hate the vt switching =S [10:34] ochosi: so I fixed the delayed kbsa (keyboard shortcut actions) on my test system by running a wrapper for xfsettingsd, it adds just a debug env var and redirects the error output [10:35] i agree that the VT switching isn't ideal, but maybe that'll get less flickery with X/Mir [10:35] maybe it's the minimal delay added by the wrapper [10:36] weird, so why would you say does the wrapper work exactly? [10:36] maybe it's just randomness, but both accounts work now [10:36] I also did clear any session cache [10:37] usually that did not help [10:37] hm [10:37] kinda odd still [10:38] and I noticed that xfsettingsd gets started by the session manager, but there's also an activated autostart entry for it [10:38] the autostart entry doesn't do much, because xfsettingsd is already running at this point [10:40] hm, weird [10:41] did removing it from there do any good? [10:41] no, but leaving it and removing the session entry might [10:42] if it really is some sort of race condition / process starting to earyl [10:42] early [10:43] I'll file a bug report today [10:45] http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-settings/tree/xfsettingsd/xfsettingsd.desktop.in [10:45] probably just a fall back solution, if xfce session is failing or not used at all [10:49] mhm [10:49] good work! [10:49] and I noticed that users-admin triggers apport after you did create a new account and relog [10:50] but that's a general ubuntu issue [10:51] ochosi: still, I have no single log file which explains the strange xfsettingsd behavior [10:52] a glib critical can occur, but even when everything works fine [11:08] if anyone wants to test the patch for bug 1232363 and none of the updated packages trigger a restart, simply run "sudo touch /run/reboot-required" and reopen update-manager [11:08] bug 1232363 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Update Manager Restart button fails on xubuntu" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232363 [11:25] brainwash: you could add that info to test the patch to the bugreport so others see it as well [11:26] have you already thugged a dev bout itß [11:26] ? [11:28] yes, I've asked the dev who uploaded the last fix to update-manager, but he wasn't in the mood to write a patch, only told me that he gladly sponsor the upload [11:29] the report is marked for the review team to test.. but who knows how long it will take [11:33] but with the amount of kernel updates there shouldn't be any need to request a reboot manually :) [11:48] hehe [11:48] indeed [11:49] xfce4-panel xcb io assertion fail on login [11:50] apport redirects me to some ancient bug report [11:52] I started to launch/test different applications (everything ubuntu related), and apport keeps bugging me [11:55] I've got a update-manager restart hanging around - I can test the patch later - but you'll need to run me through applying it - don't do it often and consequently forget each time [11:57] elfy: cd /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/UpdateManager && sudo patch < /path/to/patch [12:02] that's just hanging around - I'll see if it's still hanging around in a few hours when I get back :) [12:03] you'll need to restart the update-manager [12:14] ali1234, andrzejr: an update for the sound-indicator just came in that enables a "volume" action that does the same as scrolling but without showing a notification... [12:15] notification popup? [12:15] or tooltip [12:16] notification [12:16] afaik the indicators don't have tooltips [12:17] xfce4-volumed is responsible for showing a notification when the volume changes [12:18] i know [12:19] but now there seems to be support for not showing a notification in the sound-indicator, so that could theoretically be used in the volumed [12:19] haven't looked at the implementation yet though [12:19] just thought i'd mention it since we had talked about it before [12:19] the never-ending gtk2 indicator story =S [12:20] or wait, are you talking about the gtk3 one? [12:20] yup [12:21] gtk2 is dead-dead-dead in terms of indicators as far as i am concerned [12:27] wish I could help with the xfce gtk2 -> gtk3 transition and even wayland... but I have no clue about almost anything [12:29] it would basically mean forking the project and start coding, experimenting,.. [12:30] not necessarily forking, cloning git and making your private branch is usually the first step [12:30] yea [12:30] then you can always push your stuff, as soon as you have working code, to e.g. github for others to try [12:31] but it would be my way of doing things [12:31] well, too much work anyway :P [12:31] well usually people do things their way [12:33] bug 1238635 [12:33] bug 1238635 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Inconsistent logic of file navigation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1238635 [12:35] (just a random bug report) [12:36] well it's actually quite an important one i'd say [12:36] i've come across it several times, and it's true that it should be addressed [12:36] and it shouldn't be too hard i guess, if you wanna give it a try ;) [12:37] needs to be fixed upstream [12:37] yeah, i meant you could try to compile thunar and fix the bug [12:38] then attach a patch to bugzilla upstream [12:39] if I run out tasks :) [12:39] there's also the maximize button on dialog windows issue [12:40] cosmetic one [12:53] yeah, not sure about that bug tbh [13:18] the ones under "saucy final" are the release candidates [13:18] ? [13:20] Don't know. I assumed they were but they seemed to be linked to the ones marked "daily". [13:21] the 'final' ones don't have any previously reported bugs showing either, but the 'daily' ones do. [13:24] mmhm [13:27] ochosi: can you please test http://lpaste.net/94151 [13:32] ochosi: getting closer to a solution :) [14:34] ochosi: so basically something fails when xfsettingsd daemonizes [14:36] elfy: I recall that you also did confirm the initial ~10sec delay, please test http://lpaste.net/94151 [14:37] ochosi: looks like xfsettingsd and xfce4-appfinder share the same problem :) [14:52] brainwash: that's both good and bad i suppose [14:54] it explains, why we both are affected by the same issue [14:55] if you are affected by one of them, you are also affected by the second one [14:56] yup [14:57] the question is still, why isn't it a general issue everyone can confirm :/ [14:58] my test system isn't an upgrade one, but a bloated one [14:58] mine is an upgraded one [14:58] so it's still possible that clean installs aren't affected (which would be good i suppose) [14:58] but it's mainly only xubuntu or? [14:59] which you've installed [14:59] I installed every single DE afterwards [15:00] do you plan do a fresh installation of xubuntu 13.10 (RC?) anytime soon? [15:02] i only have xubuntu here, but it's polluted with quite a bit of git-compiled stuff [15:03] so my system is just a little more reliable than an archbox in terms of bugreporting [15:05] ok, I don't expect a patch anytime soon unless more people start to confirm the delay [15:13] Okay, it looks like we can add LP Bug #1232363 as a "Known Issue" that will be address after release according to the most recent comment from Brian Murray on it [15:13] Launchpad bug 1232363 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Update Manager Restart button fails on xubuntu" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232363 [15:16] indeed [15:16] well done brainwash ^ [15:17] mmh, why not before final release =S [15:18] let's hope people won't do an upgrade in saucy before that ;) [15:18] after release means, that everyone not downloading updates during installation will encounter a non working restart button once [15:18] it's not such a big deal, only ppl who are currently testing saucy are really affected [15:19] yeah true, but it could be worse [15:19] and the people downloading the final iso? [15:19] ye :) [15:19] after all, it's getting fixed [15:19] you oughta look at the bright side [15:21] we have to reduce the amount of annoyances.. because the indicators already generate so much confusion :D [15:28] a few days in, the focus will shift to 14.04 anyway, and it's much more important to get that one right [15:30] ochosi: As much as it is not good to say it...every release is indeed important but some releases are more special than others. [15:34] And LP Bug #1238718 is odd to see popping up **now** [15:34] Launchpad bug 1238718 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Errors in "Chapter 6. Connecting to Internet and Networks" of the Xubuntu Documentation saucy series" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1238718 [15:39] I did notice the inconsistency, but it was that way in the Raring docs so I let it go. [15:41] skellat, jjfrv8, I did file that bug after discussing it with knome [15:42] slickymaster: That's likely going to be stuff for a Stable Release Update and not something we're going to get into the shipping image [15:44] skellat: yeah, I'm aware of that, but the way I see it at least it will be corrected for the LTS release [15:44] slickymaster: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2013-October/001064.html [15:45] skellat: :) I've received that one, and knew about it [15:46] We're probably going to be doing a major rewrite for T, eh, skellat? [15:46] skellat: I've already made all the corrections, are you implying not to push it? [15:46] slickymaster: Go ahead. We'll have to prep it to be an SRU [15:47] skellat: okie dokie, thanks [15:48] * slickymaster hopes to have all the xubuntu-docs translated before the LTS release :P [15:50] jjfrv8: I'm still wondering what'll come up at the Ubuntu Documentation Project meeting. Theoretically we should attend since Xubuntu Documentation is considered part. [15:51] Right. I plan on attending. [15:53] jjfrv8: Do you want to set a time & date after the Ubuntu Documentation Project meeting to hold a Xubuntu Documentation meeting? [15:53] Sounds like a good idea. [15:54] We'll have time before UDS to do so [15:54] K [15:56] We'll talk more after the Ubuntu meeting? Gotta go for now. [15:57] jjfrv8: Bye [16:07] * skellat goes to lunch [16:44] brainwash: not getting that patch to work. and as far as "you also did confirm the initial ~10sec delay" I might have - but I'm not seeing it now [16:44] and it's pointless showing me code - it means absolutely nothing to me at all [16:58] elfy: you can edit the Dialogs.py and add the lines manually [17:00] elfy: and an easy way to verify the 10sec delay is to run "xfsettingsd --replace" and hit some kb shortcuts like super-t [17:01] no delay [17:01] as I said :) [17:01] ok, great :) [17:01] and that has knackered xchat [17:09] brainwash: what's this 10 seconds delay? this is with upstart? [17:09] the new fixed version? [17:10] no, xfsettingsd and xfce4-appfinder respond with a slight delay (10/5) to dbus messages after daemonizing [17:11] hardly anyone can reproduce it [17:11] not calling the daemonize function resolves it [17:12] yeah i can't reproduce [17:12] i'm not fully up to date tho, i'll try again in a bit [17:12] the appfinder report is more than a year old [17:13] starting with xfce 4.10 [17:14] nick already migrated the appfinder to gdbus communication upstream, which solved the issue for me [17:15] can you have a look what is happening with dbus-monitor and/or dfeet? [17:16] also maybe ~/.cache/upstart/dbus.log [17:17] also, try making a fresh user profile and see if it still happens [17:18] I'll try it again for xfsettingsd, the the daemonized appfinder process gets stuck at some point and therefore doesn't respond to dbus messages anymore [17:18] it gets stuck loading icon theme files... [17:18] is it possible you have some stale dbus sockets or something? like maybe because you ran dbus as root one time by accident [17:18] maybe it's random [17:19] in my home folder? [17:19] yeah, perhaps [17:19] or maybe /tmp [17:19] but proably ~ [17:20] unlikely, /tmp gets cleaned on every reboot and I already tested with new user accounts, same result [17:20] that's really weird [17:20] yeah, i have the same issue [17:20] but it more or less suddenly showed up [17:20] can't reproduce it when booting the daily iso [17:20] uptime? [17:21] although i can't say whether it showed up after upgrading to 13.10 or sometime running 13.10 upgrades [17:21] i've seen where buggy apps spam dbus to the point where it crawls and/or crashes [17:21] ochosi: run "xfsettingsd --replace" and hit some kb shortcuts [17:21] yeah [17:21] delayed? [17:21] and by buggy apps i mean gnome system monitor, lol [17:21] that makes things get stuck again [17:22] afterwards "xfsettingsd --replace --no-daemon" [17:22] yeah, it works as you suggested before [17:23] it's like... we need to ask nick for help :) [17:24] to explain this mystery [17:25] who knows, maybe ali1234 has some tricks up his sleeve :> [17:25] anyway, i have no idea how to debug this kinda dbus stuff [17:25] check all the log files i mentioned, plus ~/.xsession-errors for anything even slightly related to dbus [17:26] use dbus-monitor --session to watch dbus requests (very spammy though) [17:26] already did [17:26] use dfeet to see what is connected to the bus [17:26] yea, d-feet for the xfsettingsd issue, I'll test that [17:27] try to see at what point it joins the bus [17:27] bbiab [17:27] if all else fails get the source and fill it with printfs [17:27] until you find the exact point where it is hanging [17:27] yes, did exactly this for the appfinder [17:28] and it gets stuck loading icon theme files [17:28] doesn't make much sense [17:28] are you both using the same theme by any chance? [17:28] xfsettingsd is of course doing stuff with icon themes too... [17:28] maybe there is a corrupt icon that stalls it [17:29] but it works when not calling the daemonize function [17:29] I should wash my brain and forget about this issue :) [17:29] that could be just a side effect [17:30] it's the default xubuntu icon theme [17:30] "elementary Xfce"? [17:31] hey – it's not my fault! [17:31] * ochosi hides [17:31] but good idea to check whether it happens with other icon-themes too [17:31] I'm pretty sure that I tried other themes too, but let me try again [17:31] hmm i just noticed that when i run xfsettingsd --replace it does not background, ie it does not run as a daemon [17:32] woooot [17:32] wooot? [17:32] it does not background?! [17:32] yeah, weird huh? [17:32] oh wait that's not true [17:33] it outputs to the terminal still, but it is backgrounded [17:33] other icon themes also don't work (just tested gnome) [17:33] that's weird [17:33] what did it output? [17:33] a load of debugging messages [17:33] TRACE[xfce-shortcuts-grabber.c:382] find_event_key(): Positive match for t [17:33] and so on [17:34] after pressing the key, right? [17:34] i am using ubuntu-mono-light icon theme btw [17:34] yes, after pressing the shortcut. there is loads more both before and after that [17:34] couldn't reproduce with elementary xfce though [17:34] maybe it is an icon for a program i don't have installed [17:35] I got the same outputs [17:36] what about running it with strace -e file [17:36] and it's sent xchat back to 1999 again [17:38] strace -f -e file xfsettingsd --replace [17:39] hmm interesting - i just ran it and i got a very short freeze - but the whole display froze for about 2 seconds [17:40] you'll want the -r option on strace too to get timestamps [17:59] ali1234: thanks for the valuable information, it will help a lot to find the cause of this faulty behavior [18:10] skellat, FYI -> https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/190739 [18:48] jjfrv8, from my point of view, we do not need a complete rewrite for T, we just need to make sure things are up-to-date [19:56] Hello, I have a question about the merging of the translations. I noticed that the Dutch slideshow translation isn't in the daily build yet, although it has been completed some weeks ago.... [19:56] I mean the ubiquity slideshow [19:57] for Xubuntu 13.10 Saucy [19:58] knome: can you shed some light on this matter? [20:22] ochosi: do you still have overlay scrollbars activated? need you to confirm something [20:38] ochosi elfy ali1234: we have a winner, the overlay_scrollbar module is somehow causing the delay [20:40] which will be why I don't see it then [20:40] right, it explains a lot [20:40] but still... What the heck?! [20:40] :) [20:41] already filed bug 1236271 [20:41] bug 1236271 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "GTK3 applications do not react to scroll wheel input when overlay scrollbars are activated" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1236271 [20:41] Never used it. [20:42] guess we should add it to the known issues list [20:42] xubuntu not fully compatible with overlay scrollbar [20:43] ohhhh [20:43] those fat arrow thingys that they use in ubuntu [20:46] so it's time to get rid of this unity scrollbar invention [20:47] ochosi: try LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0 xfsettingsd --replace [20:47] I assume you have them activated as well [20:57] brainwash: i do have them active, yes [20:58] and yes, deactivating them fixes the issue [20:58] * ochosi goes to purge the overlay-scrollbars [20:58] from the repositories ? [20:58] :) [20:58] if it were possible.. [20:58] :) [21:04] brainwash: another job well done, so the bug should be re-assigned to the silly overlay-scrollbars i guess [21:06] yea.. uhm.. screw those scrollbars [21:08] they glitch the theme, they prevent scrolling in gtk3 apps and they delay some xfce apps [21:09] good job we don't use them then :) [21:09] Have xubuntu-desktop, or xfwm4 conflict with them. :----D [21:09] ^ :D [21:09] :} [21:10] we could export the env var when logging into xubuntu [21:11] pjotr, i will have to look at it. [21:11] would that be a valid option? well, people would ask, why the overlay scrollbars are missing in xubuntu [21:12] if they use unity side by side [21:12] Eh, doesn't make things unusable or crash them, right? Just a delay. [21:13] the daemonized appfinder instance does get stuck [21:13] zombie mode [21:14] from now on appfinder starts delayed [21:14] the new instances [21:15] so, what about deactivating them? [21:15] knome: thanks! [21:15] brainwash, deactivating them would be an option. [21:15] just like canonical disabled hibernate [21:15] people can't expect us to work like unity, that's not our goal by any means anyway [21:16] right [21:16] and people should acknowledge that when told [21:16] i don't think it's really a bug, it's just a differently working feature [21:16] that would certainly be my point of view [21:17] by that argument people could start filing bugs like "xubuntu doesn't have left-hand panel" and expect us to think they are valid bugs [21:17] it does cause faulty behavior [21:17] which is? [21:17] "they glitch the theme, they prevent scrolling in gtk3 apps and they delay some xfce apps" [21:17] the overlay scrollbars? [21:17] yes [21:17] in saucy [21:17] yeah, well then *having* them is the bug. [21:18] getting rid of them is not a bug. [21:18] even if that meant it was working a bit differently than in unity [21:18] it should be added to the known issues list at least :) [21:19] if there is an env var that can disable them, then we should look at using that [21:19] that sounds fair [21:19] feel free to link to http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1310FinalRelease [21:20] i mean, add a link to the bug in ... [21:20] + people are still free to poke that document. [21:20] yea, let me file a meta report first [21:20] sure, thanks [21:21] a "fix" can be shipped after release, if needed [21:21] knome: yep - I'll be on that pad in the next few days [21:21] elfy, cheers :) [21:22] mostly bugs people might see during install/upgrade [21:22] well... [21:22] not necessarily [21:22] just bugs that are going to be annoying [21:22] including most visual bugs [21:22] or bugs that make things lag [21:23] well ... [21:23] I'd call a bug you might find during install annoying :) [21:24] depends [21:24] if it only happens at installation time, and isn't critical, meh [21:25] does the pad save automatically or do you have to hit the save button all the time? [21:25] knome: okey doke [21:25] brainwash, saves automatically [21:25] ok [21:26] elfy, but i don't mind if we list a dozen of bugs again, then pick the ones we think are worth mentioning [21:26] elfy, and whatever pick i made is always debatable [21:26] I'd rather have them there and then we can remove - rather than each of us think oh that's not worth mentioning and finding it was [21:27] lol [21:27] yep, that's good [21:27] for pjotr (who left already) and others; slideshow translations are getting uploaded by stgraber [21:31] add bug 1232363 too? it will get fixed after release [21:31] bug 1232363 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Update Manager Restart button fails on xubuntu" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232363 [21:31] will get fixed means what? [21:31] do we have a working patch ready? [21:32] yup [21:32] brainwash did one [21:32] brainwash: add it to the pad please [21:32] brainwash, ochosi: would you like to beg at #ubuntu-release to get that fix sponsored/uploaded? [21:32] someone already promised to SRU it [21:33] (read the last comment) [21:33] don't think we can get much more at this point... [21:33] ok, that works for me. [21:33] but yes, we should list that [21:34] oh, the layout changed [21:35] elfy: it's your bug report, so add it :P [21:43] ok - I'm off - cya when I cya [21:45] ok, ubiquity slideshow translations are uploaded and waiting to get in the images. [21:52] brainwash: fwiw, i haven't seen the scrollbar problem again in firefox [21:52] so it's possible i'll really flip the switch for 14.04 on that one [21:52] ochosi: great news [21:53] I switched to numix though =S [21:53] ochosi, did you acknowledge we have https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-t-flavor-xubuntu with stuff on the whiteboard? [21:53] brainwash: it's still one of our themes, so i don't mind ;) [21:53] knome: i did, but haven't really had many new ideas yet [21:54] the things i'm interested in are mostly there already (light-locker, mugshot, menulibre) [21:54] also whiskermenu, gtk3-indicators and xubuntu-core metapackage [21:56] ok, just added one item [21:56] ugh [21:56] there was an editing conflict [21:56] shite :P [21:56] hehe [21:56] not for me i think :) [21:56] well there was [21:56] LP just doesn't notify about that [21:56] my line is shown in my ff though [21:56] yeah [21:56] but meanwhile, i had done other updates [21:57] and those are lost [21:57] :P [21:57]