[00:01] <micahg> actually upstream maintenance and development
[00:04] <brainwash> currently I lack the motivation to help with an app I never use
[00:04] <micahg> nah, it should be something used
[00:04] <micahg> it's the default bluetooth manager for Xubuntu
[00:05] <brainwash> so it's not maintained anymore?
[00:05] <brainwash> like users-admin
[00:06] <micahg> yeah, upstream had issues, there are some efforts to revive it, volunteers welcome
[00:06] <micahg> s/had issues/lacked time/
[00:09] <brainwash> I'll continue with some general debugging/codding before I even try to maintain a whole project :)
[00:11] <brainwash> micahg: aah, don't want to bother you, but what's up with https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/b2_fixes ?
[00:12] <brainwash> I keep seeing the warning about the invalid dconf key, which reminds me that a fix has been already committed some time ago :)
[00:17] <brainwash> maybe we can combine the upload with a fix for bug 1239018
[00:17] <brainwash> (if it's a valid request to disable them)
[00:35] <micahg> disabling overlay scrollbars would need a UIFe at this stage of the game
[00:36] <Unit193> They are rather unused, not installed by default, but cause issues if they are.  This would just disable them if they are installed.
[01:11] <Noskcaj> micahg: I'll have a look at the blueman source and see what i can do, but don't expect much
[01:16] <micahg> Noskcaj: I was asking if anyone wanted to maintain it upstream, casual fixes are always welcome
[05:23] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, I'm going to try and put a new version of catfish into debian. Do you want to be a co-maintainer of it? (python-apps is maintainer)
[05:53] <Noskcaj> micahg, Did you get the pkg-xubuntu team set up yet?
[05:57] <Noskcaj> What happened to Cody A.W. Somerville? I assume he no longer wants to maintain catfish?
[06:40] <pmjdebruijn> hi folks
[06:43] <Noskcaj> hey pmjdebruijn 
[07:02] <pmjdebruijn> I'm not sure if here or the plain channel is the best place
[07:02] <pmjdebruijn> I'm wondering how gnome-keyring-daemon is being started in xubuntu?
[07:02] <pmjdebruijn> as the /etc/xdg/autostart/gnome-keyring-*.desktop files aren't being used
[07:03]  * pmjdebruijn is wondering if it's being started by pam-gnome-keyring
[07:03] <pmjdebruijn> anybody a clue?
[07:05] <Noskcaj> pmjdebruijn, I don't know, sorry. Just stay around and someone should
[07:21] <pmjdebruijn> yeah I'll wait
[10:59] <brainwash> micahg: we just want to disable the unity overlay scrollbars during the xubuntu session, they are not installed by default in xubuntu, but cause some trouble if installed manually or by installing unity side by side
[11:00] <brainwash> micahg: so basically we want to keep xubuntu free from incompatibility issues caused by these scrollbars
[11:08] <brainwash> we got the bug reports and maybe we could add a little info to the release page, so maybe there's no need release a "fix"
[11:22] <ali1234> add this one to the list of bugs in other desktops directly caused by unity
[11:25] <elfy> is there a bug for that :)
[11:25] <brainwash> bug 1229486 still an issue?
[11:26] <elfy> brainwash: it was when I did tests on saturday
[11:26] <brainwash> the bug reporter stated that it was fixed by installing pm-utils
[11:26] <elfy> brainwash: I was testing the final release iso - not fiddling to see if I could fix it :)
[11:28] <brainwash> I cannot confirm it tough
[11:28] <elfy> from a default vanilla iso on hardware?
[11:28] <elfy> there have been a couple of new released iso's since there - not checked them today
[11:29] <slickymaster> morning all
[11:29] <brainwash> my 3 week old test installation
[11:29] <brainwash> including pm-utils
[11:29] <elfy> hi slickymaster 
[11:29] <slickymaster> elfy: hi elfy :)
[11:30] <elfy> brainwash: well that isn't really what we need testing - we need the iso testing :)
[11:30] <elfy> we've had 9 x 32bit tests and 11 x 64bit tests 
[11:32] <slickymaster> elfy: I'm currently testing yesterday's image but I noticed that there's already available today's http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/305/builds/55705/testcases
[11:32] <elfy> yep
[11:33] <elfy> slickymaster: you can subscribe to builds to get notification that it's been rebuilt
[11:34] <slickymaster> elfy: I'm subscribed, that's how I know that today's is already available, going to download it at lunch
[11:34] <elfy> aah 
[11:35] <slickymaster> elfy: I'll have to download at home so I won't waste communications resources over here at work
[11:35] <brainwash> maybe a hardware specific problem, suspending so fast, that xflock4/xscreensaver are not able to popup just in time :D
[11:36] <elfy> possible 
[11:37] <elfy> laptop I run tests on isn't that slow though I would have thought 
[11:38] <brainwash> can you also do several suspend/resume cycles and see if the network-manager stops working at some point?
[11:38] <elfy> brainwash: how fast does ctrl+alt+delete run the lock screen - because on this machine it takes a couple of seconds to do so and that is about as fast as it comes up after suspend
[11:38] <brainwash> couple of seconds o.o
[11:39] <elfy> exactly the same thing seen coming out of suspend
[11:43] <brainwash> it takes exactly 1 sec for xscreensaver to blank the screen (old machine, 2006)
[11:49] <elfy> not got any network-manager issues
[11:50] <elfy> this suspend thing - if I suspend from menu and resume - no screensaver at all
[11:51] <elfy> shut lid to suspend - resume - screensaver after a few seconds
[11:53] <thad> elfy: yes, you need to activate locking for the menu entries (session and startup, last tab)
[11:54] <elfy> as long as it's expected that's fine - I rarely use it
[11:54] <elfy> so the only issue is the bug then
[11:55] <thad> and lid closing might trigger the screen locker twice, via sysdemd/logind and xfce power manager
[11:55] <elfy> thad: not sure if you saw <elfy> not got any network-manager issues
[11:56] <thad> ok, so yet another hardware specific problem
[11:56] <thad> it happens occasionally for me, like 33% of all suspend/resume cycles
[11:57] <thad> maybe even less
[11:57] <elfy> this issue I can replicate 100%
[12:00] <pmjdebruijn> hi again, is anybody aware how gnome-keyring-daemon is started in xubuntu? since I'm fairly confident the .desktop files in /etc/xdg/autostart are not used
[12:00] <pmjdebruijn> gnome-keyring-daemon is interfering with proper operation of OpenGPG smartcards
[12:00] <pmjdebruijn> so I need to pass --components to it
[12:02] <thad> gnome components can be loaded on session start, see settings manager, session and startup, last tab
[12:03] <pmjdebruijn> ok thanks, but do you know to which files in the filesystem those relate?
[12:03] <pmjdebruijn> preferably I'm looking to make a systemwide modification
[12:03] <thad> I assume the .desktop files located in /etc/xdg/autostart
[12:04] <pmjdebruijn> no
[12:04] <pmjdebruijn> when I move /etc/xdg/autostart/gnome-keyring-*.desktop to /root nothing changes at all
[12:04] <pmjdebruijn> I'm wondering if pam-gnome-keyring is actually starting it
[12:05] <pmjdebruijn> oh wait
[12:05] <elfy> got the kernel error again during install
[12:05] <pmjdebruijn>  pam_gnome_keyring.so auto_start
[12:05] <pmjdebruijn> doh
[12:05] <pmjdebruijn> that's on my regular ubuntu, I should crosscheck on xubuntu tonight
[12:39] <thad> elfy: "People never guess that KeyRelease deactivates the screen saver too, so if we're issuing an activation command, wait a second."
[12:39] <thad> hardcoded 1 sec pause
[12:43] <elfy> thad: ok - where did you find that ?
[12:49] <thad> xscreensaver-command.c line 320
[12:53] <thad> elfy: do you think that removing that pause would make difference? it's just 1 sec
[12:54] <thad> optionally ofc, so the normal behavior would still be to wait 1 sec
[12:55] <elfy> perhaps it is a second - I've not timed it :)
[12:56] <thad> it has to be fixed post release and before 14.04 (light-locker)
[12:56] <thad> if at all
[12:57] <elfy> well it's on the known issues list so won't get missed, might not get any love - but at least it's there and known
[13:00] <thad> it is actually a big deal for people who are affected
[13:01] <elfy> yep
[13:01] <elfy> not disputing that 
[13:01] <thad> light-locker has (had?) the same problem
[13:01] <elfy> but I don't fix bugs I'm afraid
[13:02] <thad> you could rebuild xscreensaver and remove the pause, then test again
[13:04] <elfy> not this week I can't - a) I've got all sorts of things in r/l going in b)got release week stuff and testing going on c)seem to be suffering with a chest infection and should be in bed doing neither of a or b
[13:06] <thad> oh, get well soon! I'll add a comment to the report :)
[13:06] <elfy> thanks thad 
[14:59] <elfy> brainwash: thanks for commenting :)
[18:11] <thad_> spot the mistake http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/steam22.php
[21:33] <skellat> LP Bug #1239556 can be brought up for discussion, I guess
[21:56] <brainwash> skellat: what about the ppd packages?
[21:57] <skellat> printer-driver-pnm2ppa matches the description they give
[21:58] <skellat> Everybody who shows up in rdepends has it as a hard dependency
[21:58] <skellat> Which is every desktop seed except for GNOME
[22:01] <brainwash> so is it a valid request? why depend on stuff for printing?
[22:03] <skellat> brainwash: I need to pull up the seeds to see if there is a note as to why.  I'm marking it as an Opinion for now as micahg & mr_pouit would need to really pass judgment in the end since we're not the only ones with it as a hard dependency.
[22:04] <Unit193> It's in the desktop-command seed. :/
[22:05] <skellat> Is there a note that it is required by Technical Board resolution?
[22:07] <skellat> Oh
[22:07] <skellat> Crud
[22:07] <skellat> If it is in desktop-common that gets kicked all the way up
[22:11] <skellat> Unit193: desktop-common would be set in debian-installer, no?
[22:13] <brainwash> "Which is every desktop seed except for GNOME"   package ubuntu-gnome-desktop?
[22:17] <skellat> brainwash: Well, GNOME didn't exist as a flavor for 12.04.3
[22:17] <skellat> :-)
[22:17] <brainwash> ah right :)
[22:23] <skellat> Found it!  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/seeds/platform.saucy/desktop-common
[22:24] <skellat> Which means the branch that a merge proposal can be addressed to is: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.precise
[22:27] <brainwash> so a change is very unlikely
[22:27] <brainwash> if basic printing support is a goal of ubuntu
[22:27] <knome> we can blacklist packages in our ISO
[22:29] <brainwash> exclusively for precise? T will offer the xubuntu core meta package, so it won't be an issue anymore I guess
[22:30] <knome> per release, sure
[22:30] <skellat> brainwash: That depends if we keep desktop-common incorporated by reference in the seed
[22:30] <skellat> knome: The note says that a bunch of PPDs require that driver so breakage was found to be more likely if not there.
[22:30] <Unit193> Yeah, I removed that reference from my test openbox session and moved everything I wanted in the seed itself.
[22:32] <brainwash> mmh, changing stuff, because "one" user complains about it.. reminds me of my report about deactivating the overlay scrollbars during the xubuntu session :)
[22:33] <skellat> That's why I marked it Opinion and noted it needed to be discussed by our devs
[22:33] <skellat> Lots of breakage possible with this one
[22:46] <brainwash> yes, no need to break a LTS release
[22:46] <knome> agreed