[13:23] <leftist> good morning. is there a way i can add a panel to the bottom? like in earlier versions of ubuntu?
[13:23] <leftist> or like with gnome?
[13:24] <leftist> umm seems like i can
[13:25] <leftist> does compiz work?
[20:17] <ShadowStrider> hi folks
[22:45] <leftist> hi what is that called iced tea for java?
[22:46] <OvenWerks> ?
[22:47] <leftist> how can i install java i usually run centos
[22:47] <leftist> but i installed studio
[22:47] <OvenWerks> I thought there was java already.
[22:47] <leftist> i cant recall how to install java so i can download some stuff off youtubve via keepvid
[22:47] <leftist> i dunno
[22:48] <leftist> its a fresh install
[22:48] <leftist> new drive et
[22:48] <leftist> etc
[22:48] <OvenWerks> Ya, I am booted on the wrong one just now
[22:48] <OvenWerks> Unless you installed 12.04.3
[22:49] <leftist> i installed 143.4
[22:49] <leftist> 13.o4
[22:49] <leftist> why isnt cinelerra bundled out of curioisty?
[22:49] <leftist> and vlc is missing
[22:49] <leftist> why?
[22:49] <OvenWerks> It is not free enough :)
[22:50] <leftist> :D
[22:50] <leftist> haha
[22:50] <OvenWerks> We don't try to cover every possible application
[22:50] <OvenWerks> There is not enough room.
[22:51] <OvenWerks> (not free enough means licencing problems)
[22:51] <leftist> yeah but those are 2 essential
[22:51] <OvenWerks> There are 3 video players already I think. Mplayer, xine and parole
[22:52] <leftist> videolan and cinelerra
[22:52] <leftist> shit we use that shit at ibm
[22:52] <leftist> vlc
[22:52] <leftist> my god
[22:52] <leftist> licenses?
[22:52] <leftist> your joking
[22:52] <leftist> vlc?
[22:53] <leftist> geez
[22:53] <OvenWerks> vlc is not a licencing issue
[22:53] <leftist> so where is it?
[22:53] <leftist> vlc?
[22:53] <OvenWerks> sudo apt-get install vlc
[22:53] <leftist> yeah yeah
[22:53] <leftist> thanks :)
[22:53] <leftist> but that is essential
[22:54] <leftist> xine crahsed 3 times already
[22:54] <OvenWerks> There are others who don't agree.
[22:54] <Unit193> libdvdcss2 is one where the license is questionable, not vlc.
[22:54] <leftist> ok
[22:54] <Unit193> Also it is pulling all of Qt in, which Studio doesn't ship.
[22:54] <leftist> i understand
[22:54] <OvenWerks> I am more audio so I don't really know.
[22:54] <Unit193> (Well, what's legal, not the license.)
[22:54] <leftist> but why not jsut bundle vlc and cinelerra?
[22:54] <leftist> only makes sense
[22:55] <leftist> make it complete
[22:55] <leftist> just my thoughts you know
[22:55] <leftist> my problem is with java
[22:56] <OvenWerks> cinelerra is not even in our repos. I don't know if it is debian either.
[22:56] <leftist> i cant download using java i can in centos but i cant in ubuntu/debian. now that bugs me big time
[22:57] <leftist> i run it on other systems on other levels of ubuntu and other linux. it is essential for any studio work in my perpective.
[22:57] <leftist> just mine though.
[22:57] <OvenWerks> I can see some of the libs are installed.
[22:57] <leftist> but it should be atleast evaluated the future
[22:58] <leftist> in the
[22:58] <leftist> future
[22:58] <leftist> those 2 atleast
[22:58] <OvenWerks> become part of the team then.
[22:58] <leftist> i will
[22:59] <OvenWerks> We need people who do video.
[22:59] <leftist> i will
[22:59] <leftist> i  will install it
[22:59] <leftist> but it should be part of the package
[22:59] <leftist> to complete it
[23:00] <leftist> xine crashes to much
[23:00] <leftist> vlc doesnt
[23:00] <leftist> we recommend that at ibm
[23:00] <OvenWerks> Many people I have talked to say either mplayer or vlc. What is the difference? (aside from mplayer being CLI
[23:01] <leftist> i have been involved iwth vlc since initial dev. but it has 100% of all functuality for video/audio that anyone could ever desire
[23:02] <leftist> mplayer is limited, vlc is complete
[23:02] <OvenWerks> :) ok
[23:02] <OvenWerks> What are the most apparent limits you see?
[23:02] <leftist> i'm kinda buzzed but i still know what i know
[23:02] <leftist> well
[23:02] <leftist> my biggest fuss is this
[23:03] <leftist> and while i know it's based off ubuntu
[23:03] <leftist> well
[23:03]  * OvenWerks has had vlc crash on him too
[23:03] <leftist> i come from along time ago
[23:03] <leftist> but i dont like that it has a docking station
[23:03] <leftist> i dont like that i cant have a simple impletation for a bottom panel
[23:03] <Unit193> Depends on what coecs you have.
[23:03] <leftist> well ok
[23:03] <Unit193> There are also UIs for mplayer.
[23:03] <leftist> let me back up
[23:04]  * Unit193 is lagging.
[23:04] <leftist> i'm talking about the whole presentation in my opinoin for studio but i will stick with imeda
[23:04] <leftist> medai
[23:04] <leftist> grr
[23:04] <leftist> media
[23:04] <Unit193> Sorry, I"ll butt out.
[23:04] <leftist> no dont
[23:06] <OvenWerks> leftist: is it the icedtea plugin you are looking for?
[23:06] <leftist> i just had installed on 30+ laptops studio but damnit if it didnt have vlc. we do steaming  a lot but the problem is now someone has to do that
[23:07] <leftist> yeah but i was looking for iced tea
[23:07] <leftist> but could not find it
[23:07] <leftist> space
[23:07] <OvenWerks> try sudo apt-get install icedtea-plugin
[23:08] <leftist> thanks
[23:08] <OvenWerks> If you need a certain set of applications. why not start with xubuntu and create your own meta package for the rest?
[23:09] <OvenWerks> (or kubuntu or whatever)
[23:09] <Unit193> OvenWerks: You do audio editing right?  Much with Audacity?
[23:09] <leftist> i started with xenix
[23:09] <OvenWerks> Unless studio has most of what you want then start with that.
[23:09] <leftist> then amiga
[23:09] <leftist> then osx
[23:10] <leftist> then windows
[23:10] <leftist> the ubunt
[23:10] <leftist> so
[23:10] <leftist> my thoughts are this
[23:10] <leftist> to make it a studio
[23:10] <leftist> make it pretty complete
[23:10] <OvenWerks> Unit193: I have used audacity. It does good editing but not good tracking.
[23:10] <leftist> out of the iso
[23:11] <leftist> like with airtime or rivendell for broadcasting
[23:11] <leftist> vlc
[23:11] <leftist> cinelerra
[23:11] <leftist> make it complete
[23:11] <OvenWerks> cinelerra is not going to happen, at least not yet.
[23:11] <leftist> you dont have to run behind #ubuntu just make it how it should be
[23:12] <leftist> how it needs to be
[23:12] <leftist> why not
[23:12] <OvenWerks> It's not available to us for the iso.
[23:12] <leftist> i'm not trying to be a pain or nothing just some thoughts
[23:12] <leftist> seriously?
[23:12] <OvenWerks> Yes.
[23:13] <leftist> i didnt know that. maybe i can change that
[23:13] <OvenWerks> If it was available through our repos we would add it.
[23:13] <leftist> i'll be damned
[23:13] <leftist> and i know the maintainer
[23:14] <leftist> well let me get involved on atleast that level for the cv
[23:14] <OvenWerks> Generally, into debian first then we can sync ubuntu.
[23:14] <leftist> community verions
[23:14] <leftist> ok
[23:14] <leftist> i apologize
[23:14] <leftist> i didnt have no idea
[23:14] <OvenWerks> I will see about vlc
[23:15] <leftist> the projects on going are great but to have studio hopping you need to really hop
[23:15] <OvenWerks> I often install it myself... It just seems when a video doesn't work with one player it will with another
[23:15] <OvenWerks> I have not found any one of them that everything works with.
[23:15] <leftist> basics are definately there but just missing some essentials
[23:16] <leftist> i am not bitcing just talking what i think
[23:16] <leftist> another thing on my mind is this
[23:16] <OvenWerks> We tend to be workflow based.
[23:17] <leftist> just because ubuntu wants unity as a framework why does studio have to follow thier trial?
[23:17] <OvenWerks> We don't we use xfce
[23:17] <leftist> why not just make it based off debain and make it a true studio
[23:18] <leftist> well
[23:18] <OvenWerks> As far as I know there is talk about a meta set for debian or maybe an iso
[23:18] <leftist> when i was installing it on this laptop i am on i was montoring the details and it surely stated up front unity AS the first execution
[23:19] <leftist> i might have mis understood but i know i saw that
[23:19] <leftist> so unity is definatley embedded into the framework
[23:19] <leftist> maybe not i apologize
[23:19] <leftist> to have a production studio environment you have to think better
[23:20] <leftist> another thing is why isnt wine included?
[23:20] <OvenWerks> Ubuntustudio is right now an official flavour of ubuntu so that is not going to change. There are some bits that resemble unity, but the framwork is X with xfce.
[23:20] <leftist> again i am just chatting
[23:20] <OvenWerks> You have the 64bit version then
[23:20] <leftist> not disrespect
[23:20] <leftist> yeah
[23:20] <OvenWerks> 32 bit has it.
[23:20] <leftist> your right i forgot :)
[23:20] <OvenWerks> That is a part of the ISO build
[23:20] <leftist> my bad
[23:21] <OvenWerks> The iso doesn't want to include two sets of libs
[23:21] <OvenWerks> It is possible to install it after.
[23:21] <OvenWerks> But it does pull in a lot of 32bit stuff
[23:22] <leftist> yes
[23:22] <leftist> ok one more query
[23:23] <leftist> i'm old school. you kids today are fantastic. and the toys today are outrageous more or less. but there is one toy that is almost required. is it possible to run compiz in 64bit compiz?
[23:23] <leftist> to much beer :)
[23:24] <leftist> i'm from the amiga 80's and later so i think better sometimes :)
[23:24] <leftist> i just expect so much more today :)
[23:25] <OvenWerks> kids? I started all analog ... I remember adjusting video machines every week because the germanium transitors drift so much
[23:25] <leftist> ok mr holerith :)
[23:25] <OvenWerks> 2 inch tape and all.
[23:25] <leftist> so you understand when i say holerith?
[23:26] <OvenWerks> No., but then I miss a lot fo that stuff
[23:26] <leftist> ha
[23:26] <leftist> ok
[23:27] <leftist> i'm not putting anyone down just typing out some of my feelings
[23:27] <OvenWerks> I worked in video from 1980 to about 1984 (TV stuff) Then I went industrial stuff.
[23:27] <OvenWerks> I'm not worried.
[23:27] <leftist> so you know all about newtek and video toasters right?
[23:28] <OvenWerks> Just what we used.
[23:28] <leftist> cause that is my thought on what you just thyped
[23:28] <leftist> ok we are on the same plane
[23:28] <leftist> ok
[23:28] <leftist> salut overwers
[23:28] <OvenWerks> O/
[23:30] <leftist> if you needed any help how could i help the project?
[23:31] <OvenWerks> Ask in #ubuntustudio-devel, join the mailing list etc.
[23:31] <leftist> i have my own philosophy and theory obviosuly
[23:31] <OvenWerks> We all do.
[23:31] <leftist> i can only help with maybe finanace
[23:31] <OvenWerks> We have no finance.
[23:31] <leftist> no programming i am to tired and baet up for that today
[23:32] <OvenWerks> Not today anyway.
[23:32] <leftist> well let me ask this
[23:32] <OvenWerks> 13.10 is on it's way out the door.
[23:32] <OvenWerks> Anychanges will be in 14.04.
[23:33] <leftist> if i were to present some financial incentive who should i/we talk to and/or where?
[23:34] <OvenWerks> I don't know. So far as I know we have to remain "non-profit"
[23:34] <leftist> brb
[23:38] <leftist> is there any effort in creating a hardware oriented configuration for a configuration that would funcion under your effort?
[23:38] <leftist> in othewords a device?
[23:39] <leftist> or unit?
[23:39] <leftist> kinda like what lcme is doing?
[23:39] <OvenWerks> No, not with us. There are people working with some of the arm boards to make dedicated kinds of things
[23:40] <OvenWerks> There are not enough of us for anything like that... in fact we are short just for what we are doing now.
[23:40] <leftist> anway my email is warren@livebizops.net and i we would love to hear from anyone and we would love to provide some kind of compensation for all your efforts.
[23:40] <OvenWerks> This is a hobby, not a job.
[23:41] <leftist> ok
[23:41] <leftist> yeah
[23:41] <OvenWerks> I have whatever time is left after work and family are taken care of :)  like most of the linux world.
[23:42] <leftist> but at some point from life experience it's time to take that hobby to something that everyonje can enjoy and experience
[23:42] <leftist> believe me ovenwerks i concur
[23:42] <OvenWerks> Ya, but we still have to keep our families eating too.
[23:42] <leftist> yes
[23:43] <leftist> but the reality is that today what everyone is playing with is now showing up as a profitable existance.
[23:43] <OvenWerks> I am not really a coder as such. I know how to make packages work together (most of the time) and put isos together.
[23:43] <leftist> look at unix 20 years ago
[23:43] <leftist> today it's private
[23:43] <leftist> in some instances anyway
[23:44] <leftist> 30 years ago
[23:44] <OvenWerks> unix as such is pretty much gone.
[23:44] <OvenWerks> There are lots of unix like things around though
[23:45] <leftist> you get my point i hope.
[23:45] <OvenWerks> Most of the private ones have gone away.
[23:45] <leftist> your missing my point
[23:45] <OvenWerks> computing is changing a lot though
[23:46] <leftist> i'll admit open source is touchy
[23:46] <OvenWerks> There is a difference between open source and FOSS.
[23:46] <leftist> maybe
[23:47] <OvenWerks> legally anyway.
[23:47] <leftist> maybe
[23:47] <OvenWerks> That is why we don't include linux sampler.
[23:47] <leftist> i dig it
[23:48] <OvenWerks> We have GUI's for it in repo but not the server :P
[23:48] <leftist> haha
[23:49] <OvenWerks> There is this little part in the licence that says you can use it any way you want except as a piece of hardware.
[23:50] <leftist> anyway like i typed it's a great distro but it is missing a couple important thigs. thanks for the time; you have my email ovenwerks. we are looking for something very attractive. peace :)
[23:50] <leftist> thanks for your time :)
[23:50] <leftist> peace
[23:50] <Marhabah> nice
[23:50] <Marhabah> discovering tis OS
[23:51] <OvenWerks> Glad you like it.
[23:51] <Marhabah> I want a server with GUI interface....
[23:52] <OvenWerks> Which DE would you like to use?
[23:52] <Marhabah> still no idea what it is the better choice
[23:52] <Marhabah> DE?
[23:52] <Patero-ng> can I install sony vegas on ubuntu
[23:52] <OvenWerks> All of the server SW is available to install on any ubuntu flavour
[23:53] <OvenWerks> I don't know what sony vegas is.
[23:53] <OvenWerks> DE = Desktop Environment.
[23:53] <Marhabah> I installed server Ubuntu 13.04 yesterday.....after installed the Ubuntu Desktop....
[23:53] <Marhabah> when I restart....no network cards detected
[23:54] <OvenWerks> Though to be perfectly honest almost any I do to a server is command line anyway.
[23:54] <OvenWerks> Thats odd.
[23:54] <Marhabah> I do too....but I got severe vision loss few months ago....
[23:54] <Marhabah> and its very hard to type
[23:55] <OvenWerks> I have had no problem with network cards for a long time.
[23:55] <OvenWerks> (long time = over 10years)
[23:55] <Patero-ng> sony vegas is a 600$ video editing software it uses gpu acceleration
[23:55] <Marhabah> it lloks like something deactivated them...
[23:56] <Marhabah> and tried to install them...but it was asking for dependecies....wasnt  able to read too much
[23:56] <OvenWerks> Possible. The server works with the network cards on at boot
[23:57] <Marhabah> it said not configured, not present
[23:57] <OvenWerks> The desktop flavours use a net manager  and expects a dhcp connect.
[23:57] <Marhabah> I did my professional test on Debian in 1998
[23:57] <OvenWerks> So if there is no dhcp server that would fail.
[23:58] <Marhabah> never used any linux version since then.....
[23:58] <Marhabah> Im lost in a lot of things here
[23:58] <OvenWerks> An ifconfig -a should at least show the cards
[23:58] <Marhabah> it showed them...
[23:58] <OvenWerks> Ya, Linux has changed a lot since then.
[23:59] <Marhabah> and told it was a package missing....
[23:59] <Marhabah> wireless tools
[23:59] <Marhabah> and no remember the other
[23:59] <OvenWerks> Do you use wireless?
[23:59] <Marhabah> I found them on the installation CD
[23:59] <Marhabah> yes