[06:38] <SuperMatt> happy release day
[06:50] <MooDoo> morning and same to you SuperMatt :)
[06:55] <MooDoo> morinng all
[06:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> Is it out yet?
[06:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> ;-)
[06:56] <SuperMatt> I think we can all say no to that
[06:56] <SuperMatt> for now
[06:58] <MooDoo> omg there should just be a countdown counter somewhere already ;)
[06:59] <SuperMatt> the same thing will happen as usual, the isos will go up, some idiot will announce it, everyone will download them, and then it'll turn out there's something wrong with them
[06:59] <MooDoo> lol I'll stick to LTS lol
[06:59]  * popey checks he's not in #ubuntu-release-party
[06:59] <nigelb> heh
[06:59] <MooDoo> popey: but I thought you liked not being able to hear yourself think :)
[07:00] <popey> heh
[07:00] <diplo> Morning all
[07:01] <SuperMatt> http://www.unixmen.com/top-things-installing-ubuntu-13-10/ well this is a terrible article
[07:01] <SuperMatt> re: 2. ubuntu tweak is in the ubuntu repos
[07:01] <SuperMatt> re: 3. cinnamon has been known to break 13.10
[07:02] <MooDoo> have you contacted the author SuperMatt ?
[07:02] <SuperMatt> nope
[07:02] <MooDoo> then stop whining i don't wanna hear about it ;) lol :p
[07:02] <SuperMatt> I've only just seen it
[07:02] <MooDoo> I take that back then :)
[07:02] <MooDoo> whine away :D
[07:04] <popey> also, step 1 is wrong
[07:05] <popey> also, ripped off content
[07:05] <popey> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q="Regardless+of+whether+you+need+to+edit+images"
[07:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> who's going to the party in London tonight? I've found out I am now free so might jump on the train...
[07:06] <SuperMatt> I might make it
[07:06] <SuperMatt> I'm staying off work today because I'm not well :(
[07:06] <SuperMatt> if I come, it is literally just to grab a free t-shirt :P
[07:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> They never have enough FB size for my liking ;-)
[07:07] <SuperMatt> fb size?
[07:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> Fat B*st*rd
[07:07] <SuperMatt> ah
[07:08] <SuperMatt> small is all I need
[07:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> Me and my lovely wife have had lots fun with that. Going into a "posh" genetleman's outfitters and she asking the bloke, with me standing behind, if they have anything in FB size...
[07:09] <SuperMatt> lols
[07:09] <SuperMatt> well, I'm sat in my quantal t-shirt today
[07:09] <SuperMatt> I don't have a raring one because I didn't make it to the party in time
[07:10] <SuperMatt> and I might wait till it's on sale
[07:10] <MooDoo> yesterday I was wearing my lucid lynx t! :)
[07:10] <SuperMatt> I wish I had a hardy heron
[07:10] <SuperMatt> I think they should bring that bad boy back
[07:12] <MooDoo> I bet someone some where has the whole collection of tshirts for each release
[07:12]  * SuperMatt looks at popey 
[07:13] <popey> not all
[07:13] <popey> most
[07:13] <SuperMatt> searching ebay for hardy heron t-shirt and it keeps "correcting" it to hard hero
[07:13] <SuperMatt> F.U. ebay, I know what I want
[07:14] <popey> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/10/official-ubuntu-13-10-saucy-salamander-t-shirts-go-sale shows them all
[07:14] <SuperMatt> I've got lucid, precise, and quantal
[07:14] <SuperMatt> there's no jaunty there
[07:14] <ali1234> cinnamon doesn't break ubuntu. it only breaks unity
[07:15] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: it says theres no 9.04
[07:15] <SuperMatt> oh yeah
[07:15] <popey> there was
[07:15] <popey> no, i lied
[07:16] <SuperMatt> there was no jaunty shirt?
[07:16] <SuperMatt> omg!
[07:16] <SuperMatt> my whole life has been a lie
[07:16] <popey> see the intrepid one ☻
[08:24] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:24] <dwatkins> ello ello
[08:25] <MooDoo> moring mornign
[08:28] <AlanBell> popey: SuperMatt: jaunty was one of those band tour tshirts http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=565
[08:28] <AlanBell> bit rubbish
[08:28] <popey> oh god yes
[08:28] <popey> that was terrible
[08:29] <andrewebdev> cannot wait for the 13.10 upgrade later today :)
[08:29] <andrewebdev> hoping it will fix my dual screen woes
[08:29] <AlanBell> andrewebdev: I am runing it on dual screen and it is fine
[08:29] <SuperMatt> andrewebdev: what kind of woes are you having?
[08:29] <AlanBell> it occasionally gets them the wrong way round, but that is OK
[08:30] <AlanBell> and what version are you using at the moment andrewebdev?
[08:30] <bigcalm> The secret to happy multiple screens is to have them all connected to the same graphics card :D http://www.myrant.net/2013/02/17/multi-screen-with-ubuntu-unity/
[08:30] <SuperMatt> that never happens to me
[08:30] <andrewebdev> this was my issue
[08:30] <andrewebdev> http://askubuntu.com/questions/298881/13-04-unity-dual-monitors-graphics-suddenly-broken-for-no-reason
[08:30] <andrewebdev> I downgrade back to 12.10
[08:31] <AlanBell> SuperMatt: I have a screen on the left at the office and a screen on the left at home, sometimes I plug in and it puts the external screen on the right
[08:31] <SuperMatt> oh right
[08:31] <AlanBell> andrewebdev: that looks like one of the early issues with Mir
[08:32] <AlanBell> but it isn't, you have an ATI Radeon card
[08:33] <SuperMatt> I've just streered clear of radeon
[08:34] <MooDoo> interesting that ubuntu is released to day as is windows 8.1
[08:34] <andrewebdev> anyway, looking forward to upgrading today
[08:35] <bigcalm> Happy slow server day!
[08:35] <SuperMatt> I thought 8.1 was tomorrow
[08:35] <MooDoo> it's midnight last night or tonight one of the two ;)
[08:39] <bigcalm> The excitement was too much for his connection
[08:40] <SuperMatt> ah right, 8.1 should be released in the uk at midday
[08:40] <SuperMatt> canonical have until then to get 13.10 out :P
[08:40] <mungbean_> you know what you don't see much anymore? faux gold tissue boxes on the parcel shelf of cars.
[08:40] <bigcalm> T - 8 days, 5 hours, 49 mins - how did it get to be so flippin' close?
[08:47] <MartijnVdS> \o
[08:56] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Poverty Day and, of course, happy Ubuntu 13.10 Release Day! :-D
[08:56] <MooDoo> JamesTait: you missed happy windows 8.1 release day too :p lol
[08:56] <JamesTait> MooDoo, no, I didn't. :-P
[08:57] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: isn't that tomorrow?
[08:57] <JamesTait> MooDoo, I only mention the important stuff. ;)
[08:57] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I heard that was Oct 18 (.. my birthday)
[08:58] <MooDoo> yeah i'm just teasing folks :)
[08:58] <JamesTait> Oh, I thought it was today as well.
[08:58] <MooDoo> it is today i've i'm not mistaken, my friends already have it
[08:59] <JamesTait> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/software/microsoft-releasing-windows-8-1-today-a-year-in-making/articleshow/24272813.cms seems to support that.
[08:59] <MooDoo> cricky it's only one word, how many times can I miss spell krsh lol
[09:01] <JamesTait> I'm sure we used to have an is-it-out-yet site for release days. :-/
[09:01] <popey> we do
[09:01] <popey> ubuntu.com
[09:02] <popey> if it's down, then ubuntu was released
[09:02] <bigcalm> :D
[09:02] <bigcalm> !isitoutyet
[09:03] <mungbean_> topic needs changing for the special day/
[09:03] <SuperMatt> MartijnVdS: it's midnight of the 18th in newzealand
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: \o/ my birthday has begun 8-)
[09:03] <SuperMatt> heh
[09:04] <SuperMatt> has anyone managed to get it tet?
[09:04] <SuperMatt> *yet
[09:04] <SuperMatt> I'd have to reboot in to windows
[09:04] <SuperMatt> we're still bst right?
[09:05] <bigcalm> Yes
[09:05] <SuperMatt> so deffo midday then
[09:05] <bigcalm> Clocks always change (in the UK) last Sunday in October
[09:06] <MartijnVdS> also in the rest of Europe
[09:06] <SuperMatt> I can never remember when they change
[09:06] <MartijnVdS> (European tyranny!)
[09:06] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: ah, but the rest of Europe is not in BST :)
[09:06] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I'd love it to be.. at least in the Netherlands
[09:06] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: before WW2 we were on "Amsterdam Time", GMT+0:19
[09:06] <bigcalm> SuperMatt: last Sunday of March, last Sunday of October. Sorted
[09:07] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTC%2B00:20
[09:07] <SuperMatt> I just wish we could stick with GMT
[09:07] <bigcalm> 19mins? hehe
[09:07] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: so you can blame the Germans
[09:07] <SuperMatt> but then, GMT doesn't tie with UTC, right?
[09:07] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: Stardates.
[09:07] <JamesTait> SuperMatt, for all intents and purposes, GMT == UTC.
[09:07] <bigcalm> This is starting to sounds like an episode of uupc
[09:07] <SuperMatt> oh right
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> or the ".beat"
[09:08] <bigcalm> GMT is a timezone, UTC is a timezoneless reference point
[09:08] <brobostigon> good morning eveyrone.
[09:08] <SuperMatt> ning
[09:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> I think we should switch to European time (GMT+1). But then I do wonder why Portugal switched *back* from Eurotime to GMT?
[09:08] <JamesTait> SuperMatt, there are differences, but they're so small they're usually not worth bothering about.
[09:08] <SuperMatt> I see
[09:08] <SuperMatt> I just want GMT :(
[09:08] <JamesTait> Me too.
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlRTcIK1aGo
[09:09] <bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: considering that they are West of most of the UK
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> ^ Perl guy explains why time is hard.
[09:11] <bigcalm> Yay, getting my 1st attack report from my wedding website. I'm surprised that it lasted so long
[09:11] <MartijnVdS> popey, other UUPC presenters: you HAVE to watch that video ;)
[09:11] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: The Wedding H4x0r?
[09:11] <popey> ☻
[09:11] <bigcalm> Heh
[09:12] <bigcalm> When's the next uupc ep out?
[09:12] <bigcalm> Assuming that it exists
[09:13] <popey> tonight
[09:13] <bashrc> by golly it's thursday.  Does that mean that 3.10 is out?
[09:15] <popey> !isitout
[09:15] <popey> thats nicely vague
[09:15] <bigcalm> Get the beta, you'll have it now :D
[09:16] <AlanBell> !13.10
[09:16] <popey> sabdfl needs to hurry up and announce T
[09:16] <AlanBell> turgid terrapin
[09:17] <MartijnVdS> tacky tarantula
[09:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> Terrifying Tyranosaurus
[09:17] <MartijnVdS> tedious tapir
[09:17] <AlanBell> tawdry turkey
[09:18] <popey> Trembling Tribbles
[09:18] <bigcalm> Tired Teams
[09:19] <MartijnVdS> thundering tortoise
[09:19] <bigcalm> This is odd. An external hdd connected via USB has stopped auto mounting. It mounts if I do so manually though. Any thoughts anybody? :)
[09:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ooh - tapirs would be a good one. They are rather endangered... My wife's sister belongs to the "save the Tapir" campaign...
[09:19] <AlanBell> truculent termite
[09:19] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: auto-mount on boot, or automount on plugin while running?
[09:20] <JamesTait> Does anyone else have two network indicators in Saucy?  nm-applet and indicator-network?
[09:20] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: no?
[09:20] <popey> nope
[09:20] <popey> works fine here
[09:20] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: it didn't auto-mount on boot and it didn't auto-mount just now when I unplugged/replugged it
[09:20] <popey> clock disappeared yesterday, back now
[09:20] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: maybe something died
[09:20] <JamesTait> I couldn't get to a login screen late last night, but I see that was fixed swiftly. :)
[09:20] <SuperMatt> Towering Tapir
[09:21] <MartijnVdS> my byobu clock sometimes disappears under high load
[09:21] <SuperMatt> Turbo Tapir
[09:21] <bigcalm> Though I didn't expect it to auto-mount on boot as there is no fstab entry for it
[09:21] <SuperMatt> Turbo Tapir would be the best!
[09:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'm starving. Might have to pop to the station and get a sausage roll.
[09:22] <bigcalm> How does one find the uuid of a drive so that it can be added to fstab? I can't rely upon it always using /dev/sdc
[09:23] <AlanBell> volume indicator has been a bit funky, but now it works OK, shows the volume level and works on mouse wheel
[09:23] <SuperMatt> ls /dev/disk/by-uuid
[09:23] <SuperMatt> I think
[09:23] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: blkid
[09:23] <popey> yes
[09:23] <bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: go to the pub and get the rack of ribs :D
[09:23] <bigcalm> Ta
[09:23] <SuperMatt> ah, use ls -l /dev/disk/by-uuid
[09:23] <brobostigon> transdimensional tapir
[09:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> Bit early for that bigcalm. Need food *NOW*
[09:23] <JamesTait> Hm, seems nm-applet comes from network-manager-gnome, which is recommended by unity-greeter.  So it was auto-installed somewhere along the way, although it was showing as manually installed.
[09:24] <bigcalm> SuperMatt: bingo, ta
[09:24] <JamesTait> Gone now, anyway.
[09:32] <BigRedS> Anyone use snort? I'm trying to find a way of running it that doesn't involve my recompiling it every couple of months
[09:32] <BigRedS> ideally a dotdeb-alike that packages it for me :)
[09:32] <SuperMatt> I don't know what it is
[09:32] <BigRedS> Intrusion detection software
[09:32] <BigRedS> sits on a machine monitoring what's going on the net and raising alerts when it looks wrong, effectively
[09:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> Mission accomplished. I haz Sausage Roll.
[09:33] <MooDoo> yum
[09:33] <bigcalm> I hope you're got enough for the rest of us
[09:34] <JamesTait> bigcalm, I just installed it from the repo.
[09:34] <bigcalm> Just got a reminder for an event I can not attend :'(
[09:34] <JamesTait> BigRedS, ^^
[09:35] <JamesTait> bigcalm,  you may safely ignore that.  I did not install sausage roll from the repo.
[09:35] <bigcalm> Hehe
[09:35] <BigRedS> JamesTait: ah, haha
[09:35] <BigRedS> yeah, I did that but the (admittedly Debian) one is already not receiving new rules
[09:35] <MooDoo> sudo apt-get install sausage_roll >> mouth
[09:36] <BigRedS> append?
[09:36] <BigRedS> not pipe?
[09:36] <JamesTait> Although I do feel it's about time to: sudo aptitude install tea-and-biscuits
[09:36] <MooDoo> BigRedS: yeah he's already had breakfast this is a continuation ;)
[09:36] <MooDoo> BigRedS: ps smart arse :p
[09:36] <SuperMatt> I really need to teach myself juju
[09:37] <BigRedS> haha
[09:38] <mungbean_> is juju installed on a fujitsu called jujitsu?
[09:39] <bashrc> Are there any release parties?
[09:39] <mungbean_> http://istruecryptauditedyet.com/
[09:39] <MooDoo> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/
[09:40] <MooDoo> bashrc: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/
[09:40] <MooDoo> the uk's http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2555-saucy-salamander-release-party/
[09:40] <BigRedS> bashrc: there's definitely a London one and, let's face it, London's the only place that matters :)
[09:41] <MooDoo> I'll be having a pint later tonight, I might even hangout on ait it lol
[09:41] <JamesTait> I might treat myself to an extra Lemsip.
[09:41] <bashrc> BigRedS: unless you live outside of London
[09:42] <MooDoo> hangout on air ubuntu release party lol
[09:42] <mungbean_> who else has SARS atm?
[09:42] <mungbean_> had it for a week now
[09:42] <JamesTait> Well, the South African Revenue Service is probably limited to South Africa.
[09:43] <mungbean_> or swine flu, man flu, plague
[09:43] <mungbean_> i caught it off my baby who had a mere sniffle
[09:43] <mungbean_> so it must be man flu, as the baby is a she
[09:43] <JamesTait> I'm getting over man flu.
[09:43] <mungbean_> and it knocked me out
[09:43] <MooDoo> i had it last week as well
[09:43] <JamesTait> Should be healthy just in time to get OggCampFlu at the weekend.
[09:43] <mungbean_> i was on an island
[09:44] <mungbean_> they are probably all dead now
[09:44] <popey> \o/ oggcamp
[09:44] <JamesTait> Anyway - TEA!
[09:44] <mungbean_> being isolated for 100s of years
[09:44] <Dave2> popey: I still wonder if we both got a room
[09:45] <popey> hehe
[09:54] <brobostigon> /etc/cron.daily/spamassassin:
[09:54] <brobostigon> mkdir /var/lib/spamassassin/3.003002: Permission denied at /usr/bin/sa-update line 834.
[09:54] <brobostigon> sa-update failed for unknown reasons
[09:54] <brobostigon> does anyone recognise that error?
[09:55] <mungbean_> is it presistent?
[09:55] <brobostigon> 07:19 every morning, yes.
[09:55] <mungbean_> selinux
[09:56] <mungbean_> check audit directory
[09:56] <brobostigon> which is?
[09:57] <jpds> selinux isn't enforced on Ubuntu.
[09:57] <brobostigon> this debian stable.
[09:57] <mungbean_> ah
[09:57] <brobostigon> is*
[09:57] <mungbean_> apparmor on debian?
[09:57] <brobostigon> not a clue.
[09:59] <mungbean_> what is line 834
[10:00] <mungbean_> and which user are you running it as
[10:00] <BigRedS> I don't think so
[10:00] <BigRedS> I've never run into it :)
[10:01] <BigRedS> but I don't think any of our Stable machines are running spamassasin
[10:02] <brobostigon> spamassassin runs as debian-spamd if memory serves.
[10:02] <davmor2> Morning all Happy release day
[10:03] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[10:03] <mungbean_> wonder what happens if you run sa-update as root
[10:03] <brobostigon> mungbean_: let me try that.
[10:05] <brobostigon> mungbean_: i ran it as root from terminal, and saw no errors.
[10:07] <mungbean_> i got the impression it should be run as root
[10:07] <BigRedS> yeah, I just wont have a spamassin cronjob to look at from the past few years
[10:07] <BigRedS> it should be if its in cron.daily
[10:08] <brobostigon> will it specifiy in its crom file what user it runs as?
[10:08] <brobostigon> cron*
[10:14] <mungbean_> maybe, you could pastebin the spamassisin script
[10:16] <BigRedS> brobostigon: no, they should all be run as root, though
[10:16] <brobostigon> mungbean_: the cron file or sa-update?
[10:18] <BigRedS> the cron file
[10:18] <brobostigon> one moment.
[10:18] <brobostigon> http://paste.debian.net/58789/
[10:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> That's a very peculiar looking pub...
[10:23] <BigRedS> argh, sorry, I wasn't paying attention; we do want /usr/bin/sa-update after all
[10:23] <BigRedS> though, yeah, that script is run by the user debian-spamd
[10:24] <BigRedS> line 62 of the cronjob is
[10:24] <BigRedS> su debian-spamd -c "sa-update --gpghomedir /var/lib/spamassassin/sa-update-keys"
[10:24] <bashrc> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2555-saucy-salamander-release-party/
[10:24] <brobostigon> ok, let me pastebin that aswell.
[10:25] <brobostigon> BigRedS: http://paste.debian.net/58790/
[10:26] <BigRedS> what's the ownership on /var/lib/spamassassin/ ?
[10:28] <brobostigon> BigRedS: drwxr-xr-x  4 root        root     4096 Oct 17 11:04 spamassassin
[10:29] <BigRedS> yeah, so that's why a script run by debian-spamd can't make files in it
[10:29] <brobostigon> so whats the solution?
[10:29] <mungbean_> i think they should be run as root
[10:29] <BigRedS> that script pretty explicity drops to debian-spamd
[10:30] <mungbean_> yes
[10:30] <BigRedS> I've no real experience with spamassassin so I'll defer to you here :)
[10:30] <BigRedS> I'd just chown that dir to debian-spamd personally
[10:31] <mungbean_> http://www.debianhelp.co.uk/spam.htm
[10:31] <BigRedS> (and remember that I did that when I next need to debug something reading/writing there)
[10:31] <mungbean_> looks like they do similar here too
[10:31] <mungbean_> i've not got any spaassasissins boxes to refer to anymore
[10:31] <brobostigon> let me look at that page.
[10:32] <mungbean_> https://www.virtualmin.com/node/29766
[10:32] <mungbean_> shows ownership by debian-spamsd
[10:33] <mungbean_> so what bigred said,
[10:33] <mungbean_> chown -R the spamassassin dir
[10:34] <brobostigon> chown -R debian-spamd:debianspamd /var/lib/spamassassin   ?
[10:34] <brobostigon> chown -R debian-spamd:debian-spamd /var/lib/spamassassin
[10:47] <BigRedS> yeah, I'd go with the latter
[10:47] <BigRedS> I don't normally bother with changing the group ownership but that's normally through laziness rather than consideration
[10:49] <brobostigon> is this reversable so if it goes tits up, it can be fixed?
[10:50] <BigRedS> yeah
[10:50] <BigRedS> chown root:root /var/lib/spamassassin
[10:50] <BigRedS> er, -R? Depends what the ownership of the innerds is
[10:51] <BigRedS> find /var/lib/spamassassin -exec ls -ald {} \;    will list all that in case you wish to reverse it later
[10:51] <brobostigon> ls -l /var/lib/spamassassin/
[10:51] <brobostigon> total 8
[10:51] <brobostigon> drwxr-xr-x 3 root         root         4096 Oct 17 11:04 3.003002
[10:51] <brobostigon> drwx------ 2 debian-spamd debian-spamd 4096 Oct 16 07:19 sa-update-keys
[10:51] <dwatkins> you could always use the 'find' command to discover the permissions of every file in that directory and save for posterity, not sure you can backup permissions except by creating a tarfile of the directory.
[10:51] <BigRedS> I tried to write a script for backing up filepermissions once
[10:51] <dwatkins> sounds tricky
[10:52] <BigRedS> yeah, there were more edge cases than I wanted
[10:52] <dwatkins> isn't there an option for tar to reapply permissions without extracting files? I guess that wouldn't affect newly created files, though.
[10:52] <dwatkins> Hopefully the current permissions are fairly simple.
[10:52] <brobostigon> see above.
[10:54] <dwatkins> I was thinking of other subdirectories within 3.003002 and sa-update-keys
[10:54] <brobostigon> ah.
[10:59] <SuperMatt> oh man, windows azure servers with linux are cheaper than with windows
[10:59] <brobostigon> ok, in the 3.*dir all are root, and in sa-up* are all debian-spamd
[11:00] <dwatkins> at least it's consistent, then.
[11:01] <brobostigon> yep.
[11:01] <brobostigon> so chowning the whole directory wouldnt work then.?
[11:02] <BigRedS> it should work
[11:02] <BigRedS> in that it'll mean that script run by spamd will be able to write to ti
[11:02] <BigRedS> it
[11:02] <BigRedS> which is the bit that's failing
[11:02] <BigRedS> the fact that something else already has just means another thing wasn't broken
[11:04] <dwatkins> is spamd running as this user, and what's the umask of this user?
[11:05] <brobostigon> spamd/spamassassin runs as debian-spamd. the latter not a clue.
[11:09] <BigRedS> the script sets a umask IIRC
[11:10] <BigRedS> 022
[11:10] <BigRedS> line 61 of http://paste.debian.net/58789/
[11:10]  * brobostigon is more confussled now.
[11:13] <mungbean_> i blinked and thunderbird went from 17->24
[11:13] <BigRedS> I divide mozilla versions by 100
[11:13] <BigRedS> 0.17 to 0.24
[11:14] <BigRedS> stop expecting stuff like any spare ram at all, and 'massive' jumps are more normal
[11:14] <bigcalm> !isitout
[11:14] <bigcalm> Poo
[11:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Same as Firefox - they have a rapid release schedule and a more "LTS" type release. 24 is an LTS.
[11:14] <BigRedS> oh, there's LTSes from mozilla?
[11:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Kind of.
[11:16] <SuperMatt> it's released!
[11:16] <bashrc> Is it out?
[11:16] <SuperMatt> yup
[11:16] <SuperMatt> the site has been updated
[11:17] <SuperMatt> oh wait
[11:17] <SuperMatt> no...
[11:17] <SuperMatt> it's about open stack
[11:17]  * mungbean_ shoots SuperMatt 
[11:17] <bashrc> I thought there was supposed to be a coundown on these things
[11:17] <SuperMatt> but it has 13.10 written on the front page :P
[11:18] <bashrc> nice
[11:18] <SuperMatt> which means that Windows 8.1 landed first
[11:18] <Laney> there's no set time, so no countdown
[11:19] <bashrc> nothing on distrowatch yet
[11:19] <davmor2> Laney: there is always a countdown http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jK-NcRmVcw
[11:20] <Laney> I REFUSE
[11:20] <BigRedS> It always says its the final countdown, and it never is :(
[11:23] <mungbean_> are there any new features coming?
[11:23] <SuperMatt> oh man, 8.1 is taking a long time to download
[11:23] <SuperMatt> sure
[11:23] <SuperMatt> new kernel
[11:23] <SuperMatt> new scopes
[11:23] <SuperMatt> new backgrounds
[11:23] <SuperMatt> updated apache
[11:23] <mungbean_> ever since unity (coincidence?) i got less excited about new releases
[11:23] <bigcalm> More stability \o/
[11:24] <SuperMatt> I think 14.04 will probably be very exciting
[11:24] <bashrc> stability stability stability
[11:24] <SuperMatt> and I wouldn't be surprised if btrfs is the default fs by then
[11:24] <BigRedS> mungbean_: really? Unity's the thing that's been getting really obviously better with each release
[11:24] <xnox> SuperMatt: it will not be.
[11:24] <BigRedS> Even I like it and I hate all software
[11:25] <SuperMatt> xnox: why's that?
[11:25] <BigRedS> well, I use it
[11:25] <bashrc> Unity has been improving - well apart from the Amazon stuff
[11:25] <davmor2> SuperMatt: It won't be ext4 will still be default I bet :D
[11:25] <BigRedS> I don't know, I don't use the amazon stuff
[11:25] <bashrc> neither do I
[11:26] <mungbean_> BigRedS: i don't use unity, and previously releases were about different things, not its all about unity
[11:26] <davmor2> bashrc: smart scopes in saucy is pretty good to be fair
[11:26] <mungbean_> ^not^now
[11:26] <bashrc> I will no doubt try out 13.10 probably at the weekend
[11:26] <BigRedS> ah yeah, I see what you mean. But it's only now that hte DE actually changes that new releases feel new IMO
[11:27] <xnox> SuperMatt: because i say so =)))) *giggle* =) it's far from stable.
[11:27] <BigRedS> xnox: that's not what popey says
[11:27] <bashrc> wondering whether to kill the dual boot on my laptop.  I almost never use Windows 8
[11:27] <SuperMatt> ugg
[11:27] <xnox> BigRedS: http://packages.qa.debian.org/b/btrfs-tools.html
[11:27] <popey> BigRedS: where did I say that
[11:28] <SuperMatt> I wish people would stop saying "stable," as if it has any kind of defined meaning
[11:28] <brobostigon> bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=711324  seems like a bug.
[11:28] <SuperMatt> it's only considered "unstable" right now because people haven't tested it to the same extremes as ext4
[11:28] <popey> nope
[11:28] <BigRedS> popey: ah, that was supposed to have a :) on the end
[11:29] <bashrc> I guess stable translates into "does not constantly show crash dialog boxes asking me to submit some error"
[11:29] <popey> its under heavy development
[11:29] <popey> which == not stable
[11:29] <davmor2> SuperMatt: btrfs is good, it has nice features, but is still under heavy development.  Ext4 is stable and that's the difference, You build on stable when you have to support it.
[11:29] <BigRedS> yeah, stable does have one relatively defined meaning, and that's "unchanging"
[11:30] <popey> https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Main_Page#Stability_status
[11:30] <popey> "The Btrfs code base is under heavy development"
[11:30] <bashrc> I guess it's possible to be stably buggy
[11:30] <davmor2> bashrc: all buggys are stable or the babies would fallout
[11:31] <xnox> BigRedS: ext4 had a lot of fixes and changes since initial release, large fs size support added, performance improved, etc. "stable" means on disk file-format does not change.
[11:32] <BigRedS> xnox: yeah - if you make something that interacts with it now, that thing should also work in the future
[11:33] <meeeeee> Hi all when is the 13.10 launched today?
[11:33] <bashrc> It's probably better to make conservative choices about file systems.  So if there's still a chance that btrfs can lose all your data then best avoid it.
[11:34] <popey> meeeeee: soon
[11:34] <meeeeee> thanks Popey
[11:36] <popey> every release, regular as clockwork, softpedia announces the release about 30 mins before we do ☻
[11:37] <bigcalm> How?
[11:37] <BigRedS> they're secretly controlling canonical
[11:37] <BigRedS> if softpedia say it's out, it'd better be out
[11:38] <Azelphur> haha
[11:38] <Azelphur> Everybody talking about 13.10 release, I've been running 13.10 for the past 3 months as my daily driver xD
[11:39] <BigRedS> Hah, with this release I've noticed that things break less when you're running stable software :)
[11:39] <Azelphur> this release has been quite nice, everything worked well even during the beta for me \o/
[11:39] <ali1234> bigcalm: they watch for the files being uploaded
[11:39] <BigRedS> I think I'm a convert to waiting until release and *then* updating
[11:39] <Azelphur> I can't ragerant about multi screens upport this time
[11:39] <bigcalm> Ah
[11:39] <SuperMatt> oh man, I've been downloading 8.1 for half an hour now, and it's still only about a third of the way through
[11:39] <BigRedS> I do like that background on the softpedia article, though
[11:40] <bigcalm> Yes, that's cheeky
[11:41] <ali1234> i love how the amazon results are all completely irrelevant to the search
[11:41] <ali1234> almost as if it's a completely terrible idea
[11:42] <DJones> Easiest to estimate the release time is to find out what time popey is going to the pub, release time will be about 30 minutes before that
[11:42] <ali1234> or are those from the U1 music store?
[11:42] <bashrc> is desktop entropy a feature?
[11:42] <ali1234> apparently
[11:43] <BigRedS> yeah, it feels more like someone played with an Amazon APIU than that someone developed a desktop-based way of searching Amazon
[11:44] <mungbean_> anyone know how to remove calednars from tuhunderbird lighning forcefully?
[11:44] <SuperMatt> remove lightning
[11:45] <BigRedS> xul-ext-lightning is the package name
[11:45] <BigRedS> (assuming you used apt and not hte mozilla add-ons site)
[11:45] <bigcalm> Oh yes. My google calendar is no longer syncing in thunderbird. I think it's because they've turned off caldav
[11:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: Nope.
[11:46] <bigcalm> No?
[11:46] <BigRedS> mine is syncing
[11:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> Lighting is broken with CalDAV/Google since they introduced OAuth
[11:46] <bigcalm> I have a yellow warning triangle saying the calendar is not syncing
[11:46] <bigcalm> Ah
[11:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> Bugs are being worked on...
[11:47] <BigRedS> oh, mine seems okay...
[11:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://blog.mozilla.org/calendar/2013/09/google-is-changing-the-location-url-of-their-caldav-calendars/
[11:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> https://developers.google.com/google-apps/calendar/caldav/v2/guide#new_endpoint
[11:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> But as I said, lightning with CalDAV is a bit borked right now.
[11:53] <SuperMatt> aha, the 8.1 download is done
[11:54] <SuperMatt> just gotta let it install now
[11:55] <directhex> windows 8.1 update downloading on wife's laptop
[11:55] <directhex> i'm using that one as the guinea pig :p
[11:56] <SuperMatt> good plan
[11:56] <directhex> should be an easy one
[11:56] <directhex> also my work laptop
[11:56] <directhex> worried about our desktops though, due to (unsupported) OS and Users on different drives
[11:56]  * bigcalm shakes fist at calendars and hopes they work later today
[11:56] <SuperMatt> I'm sure it'll be fine
[11:57] <SuperMatt> ms are normally quite thorough
[11:57] <SuperMatt> and I'm actually quite serious about that
[11:57] <zleap> when is 13.10 released
[11:57] <directhex> you can't use things like "reset" with a split install, or do upgrade installations. so...
[11:57] <popey> !isitout
[11:58] <zleap> ok thanks
[11:58] <bigcalm> !isitoctober
[11:58] <BigRedS> zleap: today, there's no published time but you'll be able to tell that it's out because you wont be able to download it
[11:58] <bigcalm> Bah
[11:58] <zleap> lol, ok np
[11:59] <zleap> i have lubuntu anyway but will put on my website and on the dcglug site when released, so both sites will get a blog post
[11:59] <BigRedS> ahh, link people to the torrents when its ou t:)
[12:00] <BigRedS> since they tend to work and be quick, and people who use torrents don#t contribute to teh bringing down of http mirrors :)
[12:00] <popey> meh, we have cloud caching
[12:00] <BigRedS> oh, fair enough
[12:00] <BigRedS> so it'll probably be possible to download over HTTP just after release?
[12:00] <popey> i expect demand will be less
[12:01] <popey> than it has been previously
[12:01] <popey> given there's fewer major things in this release
[12:04] <SuperMatt> woo, 8.1 finally installing... after an hour
[12:05] <popey> Says something when on Ubuntu release day the topic is Windows 8.1
[12:05] <SuperMatt> well that's because canonical is sensible and allows regular users access to the preview :P
[12:06] <SuperMatt> but also, canonical didn't have anything broken that needed fixing
[12:06] <popey> hah
[12:06] <ali1234> bug 1174054
[12:06] <ali1234> is that fixed yet?
[12:07] <selinuxium> Hello all  o/
[12:07] <ali1234> 13.10 also has some new regressions like bug 1203888
[12:11] <BigRedS> morning selinuxium !
[12:11] <selinuxium> Hey BigRedS You good?
[12:13] <BigRedS> yeah, not bad, you?
[12:13] <BigRedS> you out to play this evening?
[12:14] <selinuxium> Indeed... :) You?
[12:14] <selinuxium> I am cool ta.
[12:14] <BigRedS> yeah, though I might be late...
[12:17] <selinuxium> Late? this is unacceptable! :)
[12:18] <BigRedS> haha
[12:18] <BigRedS> blame debian packaging :)
[12:19] <selinuxium> Hey ho.. :)
[12:19] <selinuxium> Slightly worried as I am out of the office at 16:30...
[12:19] <popey> http://imgur.com/gallery/mfkzd  saw that and thought of daftykins
[12:19] <selinuxium> SO will be a few pints ahead..
[12:19] <BigRedS> haha
[12:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> hey selinuxium - I'm probably going to popup there later.
[12:20] <selinuxium> Great stuff.  :)
[12:24]  * AlanBell can't make it :(
[12:24] <selinuxium> NO!!! Inconceivable!
[12:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> I didn't think I could until Mrs TheOpenSourcerer told me last night that she wasn't out tonight.
[12:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> Which our Google Calendar had informed me she was.
[12:26] <BigRedS> What?
[12:26] <BigRedS> Hmph. :(
[12:26] <AlanBell> I was looking forward to a Horse burger too
[12:27] <BigRedS> Is the lord nelson the one with the pop culture posters in it?
[12:27]  * BigRedS should probably check which pub he's going to
[12:29] <mungbean_> who was using office265? diplo?
[12:30] <selinuxium> BigRedS, https://www.google.co.uk/maps/preview#!data=!1m4!1m3!1d2826!2d-0.102737!3d51.5035364!4m29!2m11!1m10!1s0x0%3A0xd686f3fdcb9abe6c!3m8!1m3!1d4935928!2d-2.3278149!3d52.8382004!3m2!1i1024!2i768!4f13.1!5m16!2m15!1m14!1s0x487604a59e02fdf9%3A0xd686f3fdcb9abe6c!2sThe+Lord+Nelson%2C++243+Union+Street%2C+London%2C+Greater+London+SE1+0LR%2C+UK+United+Kingdom+%2C+London!3m8!1m3!1d4935928!2d-2.3278149!3d52.8382004!3m2!1i1024!2i768!4f13.1!4m2!3d51.
[12:30] <selinuxium> 50355!4d-0.102736
[12:30]  * dwatkins will be using Office 365 soon
[12:30] <mungbean_> unlucky
[12:30] <selinuxium> Wow... didn' realise it would be that long..
[12:30] <mungbean_> it is shocking
[12:30] <dwatkins> is it an update or are the apps browser-based?
[12:30] <mungbean_> oh i'm referring to email
[12:30] <davmor2> selinuxium: You keep saying that word, but I don't think you know what it means!
[12:30] <mungbean_> never tried apps, not even sure i have them
[12:31] <BigRedS> selinuxium: ta! I googled "Lord Nelson" and now I'm reading his wiki article...
[12:31] <selinuxium> We are using office365 and don't have any issues..
[12:31] <dwatkins> I use mail.app my Mac for e-mail, so hopefully I can just carry on with that.
[12:31] <mungbean_> selinuxium: i'm trying to use thunderbird
[12:31] <mungbean_> calendar sync fail
[12:31] <selinuxium> BigRedS, http://goo.gl/AFpnk4
[12:31] <dwatkins> Presumably Windows users will be upgraded and/or have the option to use apps in a browser, not sure what runs in there apart from outlook web-access, of course.
[12:31] <selinuxium> davmor2, <checkle>
[12:31] <selinuxium> davmor2, <chuckle>
[12:32] <dwatkins> I used Thunderbird with the Lightning plugin a few years back, which worked fairly well for mail and calendar.
[12:32] <mungbean_> not with exchange now
[12:32] <mungbean_> moving target
[12:32] <mungbean_> almost had it working but nope
[12:32] <dwatkins> bah
[12:32] <dwatkins> iirc, Lightning doesn't work on the exchange calendar, just stores it locally
[12:32] <davmor2> selinuxium: couldn't resist
[12:32] <mungbean_> can't even find caldav info
[12:32] <dwatkins> I imagine MS keep moving the goalposts.
[12:33] <mungbean_> used to use zimbra, which was wonderful
[12:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> Exchange uses a proprietary calendar protocol. Google do too, but they publish it. And the also support CalDAV (which they were going to drop but changed their minds).
[12:36] <mungbean_> MS suck so hard
[12:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> Nearly as much as Apple.
[12:36] <mungbean_> i wouldn't know as apple don't really touch my world
[12:36] <davmor2> mungbean_: have a look and see if thunderbird has a plugin for it
[12:36] <mungbean_> MS didn't used to until the numpties in suits moved in
[12:36] <mungbean_> davmor2: its called EWS
[12:36] <mungbean_> and it almost works
[12:37] <mungbean_> depending on which way the wind blows
[12:37] <mungbean_> today was not my lucky day
[12:37] <mungbean_> even if it was, it would break tomorrow
[12:37] <davmor2> mungbean_: you can always try evolution :)
[12:37] <mungbean_> hahaha
[12:43] <BigRedS> I leave you guys for two minutes and now somebody's advocating Evolution :(
[12:44] <davmor2> BigRedS: I wasn't advocating it, I just suggested he could try it, nothing more.  For a long time it's exchange plugin was far superior to thunderbirds
[12:45] <BigRedS> really? I tried using Evo for exactly that a while ago and I can't imagine anything less useful...
[12:46] <selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, What time you heading down there? We are leaving the office around 16:30
[12:47] <davmor2> BigRedS: I did say for a long time it's exchange plugin was far superior,  then I think MS changed all the protocols and then anything that isn't outlook suffered
[12:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> selinuxium: I can leave pretty much when ready to be honest. Want to try and meet around 17:00 at the Nelson? I can do that!
[12:48] <BigRedS> davmor2: ah right, that sounds familiar...
[12:49] <selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, Sounds like a plan.. I should of brought some chilli up with me..
[12:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> I've been in a bit of a glut of chillies recently... Rocotos and Super-Hots...
[12:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> Am now thinking about next year's growing list.
[12:52] <selinuxium> You going to try for some Bhuts? (just had 'I like big Bhuts and a cannot lie' go through my head)
[12:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[12:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> Grow bhuts most years. yes.
[12:53] <selinuxium> Ah, but are they big?
[12:53] <davmor2> BigRedS, mungbean_: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/thunderbird/addon/exquilla-exchange-web-services/ maybe?
[12:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> This year was Naga Viper and Choc Bhut, but the chocs didn't really make it.
[12:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> The viper is fairly big
[12:54] <selinuxium> Never had a fresh one.. not sure I would be that brave, though I have had Naga extract in things before. .
[12:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> I've not quite been mad enough to eat a whole one, but I do quite often munch on bits and share one around the pub for fun.
[12:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> The other week it was Trinidad Scorpions
[12:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> !isitoutyet
[12:57] <BigRedS> davmor2: perhaps; rather pleasingly I don't have access to an exchange server any more :)
[12:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> You've gotta rate Francis Maude... Driven through Open Source reforms and now installing his own wifi  - lolhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10384226/Francis-Maude-installs-own-Wifi-after-becoming-frustrated-with-Whitehall-IT-systems.html
[12:59] <BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: just do-release-upgrade -d :)
[13:22] <andrewebdev> will the upgrade tool allow me to skip 13.04 and go directly to 13.10? (I have 12.10)
[13:23] <diddledan> andrewebdev: it's advised iirc to do it in steps
[13:24] <marxjohnson> andrewebdev: I think skipping LTS->LTS is well supported, but between smaller releases not so much
[13:25] <bigcalm> !isitout
[13:25] <bigcalm> Trust me to take lunch at the wrong time
[13:25] <diddledan> wait, it's out?! :-p
[13:26] <diddledan> gotta love self promotion: the homepage says "Smarter and faster"
[13:26] <diddledan> I like that ubuntu touch reached image 100 today
[13:27] <popey> technically it was way more than 100
[13:27] <popey> stgraber reset the counter a while back ☻
[13:27] <popey> it's probably nearer 200
[13:27] <diddledan> popey: but the cabal!
[13:27] <andrewebdev> well then I guess I'll upgrade to 13.04 now :P
[13:27] <popey> andrewebdev: switch to a fast mirror
[13:27] <popey> I use goscomb in the uk
[13:27] <andrewebdev> how do you do that?
[13:27] <andrewebdev> I'm just using the software updater
[13:28] <popey> there's a settings button there somewhere
[13:28] <diddledan> I wonder if microsoft released 8.1 today in an attempt to steal canonical's thunder?
[13:28] <popey> in update manager, hit settings, then on the"Ubuntu software" tab there's a "Download from: " option
[13:28] <popey> choose "other"
[13:28] <popey> and then press "Select best server"
[13:29] <popey> or pick mirror.sov.uk.goscomb.net
[13:30] <andrewebdev> done
[13:30] <andrewebdev> thx :)
[13:30] <popey> np
[13:31] <bigcalm> I'd love to be able to test my 3 monitor workstation on 13.10 before commiting to it
[13:31] <diddledan> heh, the indiegogo campain may not have succeeded but the founders list has been published
[13:31] <bigcalm> Might resort to taking an image of my SSD and put it on a spare HDD then upgrading
[13:31]  * diddledan revels in seeing his name amongst the 17000 others and feels speshul
[13:33] <bigcalm> Anybody think of a better method than the above for testing 13.10 on my set-up?
[13:33] <dwatkins> some people in my team support a particular application, they added the entire team to the credits instead of those of us who actually support it, so people who have nothing to do with it are in the credits.
[13:36] <popey> bigcalm: what video card?
[13:37] <bigcalm> popey: nVidia GeForce GTX 660
[13:37] <popey> bigcalm: get two usb sticks, dd the iso onto one, unplug hard disks (safety) and reboot to first usb stick, install onto second, reboot onto second, add drivers etc, test
[13:37] <popey> do you run 3 displays off that?
[13:37] <bigcalm> I recall you helping me getting the nvidia driver working. Yes
[13:37] <popey> 2xDVI & 1xHDMI?
[13:37] <bigcalm> 2 from dvi, 1 from hdmi
[13:38] <popey> yeah, so do what I said above
[13:38] <diddledan> I thought nvidia cards were crippled into only working with dual-head systems from one card
[13:38] <popey> or just upgrade and stop being a wuss ☻
[13:38] <bigcalm> Heh
[13:38] <bigcalm> It might come to that
[13:38] <diddledan> hence the ati eye-finity campaign
[13:38] <bigcalm> Then I spend the weekend fixing stuff
[13:39] <popey> tbh there's so little changed between 13.04 and 13.10..
[13:39] <popey> can't imagine there's much to fix
[13:39] <bigcalm> It was my last blog post http://www.myrant.net/2013/02/17/multi-screen-with-ubuntu-unity/
[13:39] <popey> backup, upgrade
[13:39] <bigcalm> Graphics is my only concern
[13:39] <popey> why?
[13:39] <popey> you already have an xorg.conf
[13:39] <bigcalm> Why what?
[13:39] <popey> why is it a concern?
[13:39] <popey> what version of the nvidia driver are you using on 13.04?
[13:40] <bigcalm> That packages configured for the setup I have wander off
[13:40] <bigcalm> Um
[13:40] <bigcalm> 304.88
[13:41] <popey> 319 here
[13:41] <bigcalm> I'll dd my ssd onto a spare hdd and then upgrade the ssd
[13:41] <popey> "According to a forum poster at the Nvidia Developer Zone, the v310 version of the drivers for Basemosaic has reduced the number of monitors a user can connect simultaneously to three."
[13:42] <popey> diddledan: ^^
[13:42] <bigcalm> That's the kind of thing I would be worried about if it was a lower number than I was currently using
[13:42] <diddledan> ta, popey
[13:44] <AlanBell> 13.10 is mostly 13.04 with fixes
[13:44] <directhex> ok, wife's win8.1 laptop working
[13:45] <diddledan> windows 8.1 takes a while to upgrade, doesn't it?! my work laptop is chuntering away
[13:45] <bigcalm> Hayley's laptop is running vista on an hdd. I have offered to buy her an ssd and reinstall windows. Do I put 7 or 8.1 on I wonder?
[13:45] <AlanBell> the dash has been changed a bit, scopes are smarter, but still don't appear to do anything particularly useful
[13:46] <directhex> bigcalm, reasonable question. 8 is faster/smaller, but has the 8 ui affectations
[13:46] <bigcalm> directhex: has the what?
[13:46] <directhex> 8 has a bad ui
[13:46] <bigcalm> Ah, yes
[13:47] <bigcalm> Can 8 be made to look like 7?
[13:47] <jpds> bigcalm: Put Ubuntu ?
[13:47] <directhex> bigcalm, slightly
[13:47] <bigcalm> jpds: that wasn't in the options I listed, was it?
[13:47] <jpds> bigcalm: Make it one.
[13:47] <bigcalm> Anyway
[13:48] <directhex> i mean, there are third party apps to give an old-style start menu, but many non-metro apps are gone, and the charms bar is here to stay...
[13:48]  * bigcalm goes to see what we have available in the ms action pack
[13:51] <bigcalm> Looks like we have 7 pro, 7 ultimate, 8 pro, 8 pro n
[13:51] <bigcalm> Oops
[13:51] <bigcalm> Not sure what the n is about
[13:51] <bigcalm> We have 7 pro, 7 ultimate, 8 pro, 8.1 pro
[13:51] <directhex> n is "without windows media player support"
[13:51] <AlanBell> maybe it is the one that includes trumpet winsock for networking
[13:52] <directhex> it was a legal requirement of the EU that microsoft offer windows without media player
[13:52] <bigcalm> I will note that the two items with N at the end of the name have "Not Required" for the product key
[13:52] <bigcalm> How strange
[13:53]  * bigcalm naps 7 and 8.1 now just to be ready
[13:54] <directhex> 7 is more familiar to users of 95 onwards
[13:54] <bigcalm> Not sure what the advantage of ultimate over pro would be though
[13:54] <bigcalm> Indeed
[13:54] <Dave2> welcome to #windows-uk
[13:54] <bigcalm> \o/
[13:54] <directhex> 8 is a more radical change in UI design than 3.1->95
[13:55] <davmor2> bigcalm: it's ultimate and professional of course it's better ;)
[13:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> !isitoutyet
[13:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hoorah
[13:56] <AlanBell> yes it is :)
[13:56] <popey> hmm
[13:56] <AlanBell> !saucy
[13:56] <popey> I have a 2nd hand 3 dongle thing, Huawei E586
[13:57] <popey> with a SIM I have topped up
[13:57] <popey> when i connect to it, any website I go to takes me to the admin logon page for the dongle
[13:57] <popey> wat?
[13:57] <popey> it has 3 options, SMS (for send/receive sms messages), status, and quick setup
[13:58] <popey> quick setup has a form asking for username/password, authentication (pap or chap) and APN details..
[13:58] <diddledan> wtf windows-upgrade - it's been on "setting up a few more things" for 10 minutes now
[13:58] <popey> not seen this on a dongle before
[13:58] <AlanBell> captive portal on a dongle is a new one to me too
[13:58] <diddledan> I know there's an attempt to make windows friendly, but wtf?!
[13:59] <popey> ah, there may be more fields
[13:59] <popey> but chrome on android can't see them
[13:59]  * popey tries ubuntu
[13:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> time to upgrade. See you on the other side...
[13:59] <AlanBell> :)
[14:00] <JamesTait> What, are the T repos open already? :-P
[14:00] <bashrc> it's out on ubuntu.com
[14:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> fetching at 5,222kB/s ;-)
[14:00] <popey> which mirror?
[14:00] <AlanBell> bashrc: sure, it was released half an hour ago
[14:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno
[14:01] <AlanBell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2013-September/000176.html is the announcement
[14:01] <popey> hah
[14:01] <popey> works on Ubuntu
[14:01] <popey> (phone)
[14:02] <AlanBell> interestingly the phone release is called an "official beta" in the release announcement, I thought it was a 1.0 release
[14:02] <AlanBell> popey: err, dongle on a phone??
[14:02] <AlanBell> is it a USB thing or a mifi or something?
[14:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> files fetched. That was pretty quick.
[14:02] <popey> mifi
[14:02] <AlanBell> ah, that is how the captive portal works then
[14:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> Office Broadband is great.
[14:03] <davmor2> popey: of course it does Ubuntu Rocks :D
[14:04]  * AlanBell nearly made a big big big mistake
[14:06] <diddledan> AlanBell: you weren't thinking of installing that rubbish linux thing were you? :-p
[14:06] <diddledan> linux'll never catch-on
[14:06] <diddledan> it won't be in your phone in your tv in your watch. etc. evar
[14:07] <ixxvil> i dont particularly use it for what i do
[14:07] <ixxvil> excpet for my vps
[14:07] <AlanBell> TogetherJSConfig_findRoom is *not* server specific. This is important.
[14:07] <popey> bah
[14:07] <ixxvil> for design linux is so back
[14:07] <ixxvil> sorry brah, yeah catch up
[14:07] <popey> it refuses to go to any address other than the admin page
[14:07] <ixxvil> no adobe love for liux
[14:07] <popey> how odd
[14:08] <davmor2> AlanBell: Let me guess you were in / and were about to remove the iso file with * ?
[14:08] <AlanBell> davmor2: no, I was going to make lots of vtiger users friendly with other vtiger users
[14:10] <diddledan> "friendly". that's somewhat disconcerting
[14:10] <AlanBell> yeah
[14:10] <diddledan> even more so when you put it in quotes
[14:11] <davmor2> AlanBell: I can tell you from experience that Tigers don't get on http://ubuntuone.com/6B8JBgnq9SHaOU7iWmv2N9
[14:12] <bigcalm> Hayley's laptop: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Inspiron_1525 - it amuses me how old the article is when it talks about Ubuntu 7.10
[14:13] <diddledan> ouch, that's caveman days in terms of ubuntu
[14:13] <bigcalm> Trying to work out if the system is capable of running a 64bit OS. Have a feeling it might
[14:14] <Dave2> is it a Core 2 Duo?
[14:14] <SuperMatt> ooh, kitties
[14:15] <AlanBell> davmor2: how big is this thing?
[14:15] <AlanBell> Ubuntu one is slow :(
[14:15] <Dave2> 28MB
[14:16] <bigcalm> Dave2: a label says Celeron Dual Core
[14:16] <AlanBell> got it now
[14:16] <davmor2> AlanBell: Not big, only 30meg.   The big issues is that network traffic is reduced everywhere for the download servers
[14:16] <popey> yay, fixed it
[14:17] <davmor2> popey: did you turn it off and on again?
[14:17] <Dave2> bigcalm: looks like it probably does
[14:17] <popey> I DID!
[14:17] <bigcalm> Dave2: goodo
[14:17] <davmor2> popey: it's the 42 of computer fixes
[14:18] <bigcalm> Windows 8.1 Pro slithering its way to me at 7.1MB/s. Lets find out if VirginMedia decide to cap me
[14:19] <popey> is Hayley's machine on Windows 8?
[14:19] <bigcalm> popey: no
[14:19] <bigcalm> popey: but it might be if the She and the laptop like it
[14:20] <popey> ☹
[14:20] <bigcalm> popey: I have offered Ubuntu, she didn't say no out-right, but I know she will be unhappy
[14:21] <davmor2> bigcalm: sorry like and windows8 those things are surely incompatible
[14:21] <bigcalm> I can't be doing with getting MS Office to run seamlessly from Ubuntu. If I could, I'd have it running for myself
[14:22] <bigcalm> No, Libre Office is not an option either
[14:22] <bigcalm> Also, it's handy to have a windows machine in the house for testing things on
[14:22] <davmor2> bigcalm: install it on your windows server and vnc into office done
[14:23] <bigcalm> davmor2: that's what I do, except using synergy rather than vnc
[14:23] <bigcalm> davmor2: the server is horribly slow and can't cope with more than just me
[14:23] <bigcalm> But it would also tie her down to using the laptop at home only
[14:23] <bigcalm> Rather limiting
[14:23] <davmor2> excuses excuses ;)
[14:24] <BigRedS> I think impressing Ubuntu upon people who don't want it is missing the point rather
[14:24] <bigcalm> I know my Dad doesn't want it. I've given up trying there
[14:24] <popey> heh
[14:24] <bigcalm> I'm just trying to help Hayley be able to use her laptop once more - it's horrible right now
[14:25] <popey> why horrible?
[14:25] <popey> oh, vista?
[14:25] <bigcalm> The machine takes minutes to register that things are happening
[14:25] <popey> what spec is it?
[14:25] <bigcalm> Which is why I have offered to buy an SSD and give her a fresh install
[14:26] <bigcalm> Hayley's laptop: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Inspiron_1525
[14:26] <bigcalm> Oh dear. I've pissed VM off. Win8 downloaded at 7.1MB/s. Win7 is downloading at 102KB/s
[14:27] <popey> oh, celery
[14:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[14:27] <bigcalm> Either that or MS have put a lot of bandwidth over to the Win8 download servers because it's release day
[14:27] <popey> how much ram?
[14:27] <bigcalm> 4GB, I maxed it out
[14:27] <popey> thats not a stellar specced laptop ☻
[14:27] <Dave2> 4GB = maxing out?
[14:27] <popey> ssd would help for sure
[14:27] <bigcalm> popey: no
[14:28] <bigcalm> Dave2: yes
[14:28] <bigcalm> popey: yes
[14:28] <Dave2> sounds odd
[14:28] <bigcalm> Why?
[14:28] <Dave2> Because 4GB is a limit I'd expect on a 32 bit laptop
[14:28] <bigcalm> I think my Dell has a 4GB limit
[14:29]  * bigcalm goes to look
[14:29] <popey> my tosh has a 3GB limit ☹
[14:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> 30 mins from start to finish. Time to reboot.
[14:30] <Dave2> My old DSA laptop has an unknown limit, but it's 32 bit and if I put 4GB in it then things stop working properly
[14:30] <Dave2> presumably because the RAM would be conflicting with devices
[14:30] <popey> my tosh won't see more than 3GB
[14:30] <Dave2> I found this out when I bought 4GB of RAM for it
[14:30] <popey> chipset limitation
[14:30] <popey> even if you put 64-bit on it
[14:31] <Dave2> I swapped a 2GB stick with a housemate's 1GB stick
[14:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> How long to do the same on Windows?
[14:33] <popey> all done?
[14:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> One has to admin, that's pretty impressive. 30 mins, 1 reboot.
[14:33] <bigcalm> Aha, I think it's MS limiting bandwidth. Speedtest is showing my connection is just dandy
[14:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
[14:33] <popey> nice
[14:33] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: please mention this on the twits G+s ☻
[14:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone would think you worked for them or something... Oh hang on.
[14:34] <popey> heh
[14:34] <popey> I get enough flak from people that upgrades are broken, they never work
[14:34] <popey> nice to hear success sometimes to balance that
[14:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> My self compiled version of hotot doesn;t work (unsurprisingly)....
[14:35] <jpickett> don't think I've tried upgrading since 9.04
[14:35]  * bigcalm does the silly thing and upgrades his dev laptop
[14:35] <jpickett> much easier to just Nuke It (tm)
[14:36] <directhex> i need to worry about 14.04 next.
[14:36] <bigcalm> Silly as 13.10 comes with PHP 5.5.3 and I have projects that won't work on versions higher than 5.3
[14:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> Cool the hotot in the repos works again.
[14:40] <bigcalm> My MS downloads say they have several days left to complete. Ho hum :)
[14:40] <directhex> msdn is slow
[14:40] <directhex> i guess it's being badgered due to 8.1, too
[14:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> OK time to go catch a train or selinuxium__ will be upset ;-)
[14:44] <bigcalm> directhex: win 8.1 came down at 7.1MB/s. I think they have diverted power to the front deflectors
[14:44] <Dave2> is that a spaceteam command?
[14:44] <directhex> noooooo, what about the warp nacelles? :<
[14:44] <bigcalm> We're dead in the water
[14:45] <bigcalm> I want to play spaceteam with Hayley
[14:46] <Laney> ffs
[14:46] <Laney> my chair just completely gave up any pretence that it could hold itself up
[14:47] <gordonjcp> heh
[14:47] <gordonjcp> Laney: I had that happen once with a wooden bar stool
[14:47] <gordonjcp> Laney: collapsed under me as I was sitting recording an episode of hashlugradio
[14:51] <Laney> haha
[14:55] <Laney> aerons are mighty expensive
[14:55]  * bigcalm hugs his
[14:55]  * bigcalm is now covered in dust
[14:56] <bigcalm> There's something to be said for working in an office with a weekly cleaner
[14:57] <davmor2> popey: next release thunderous thundercats
[14:57] <bigcalm> Haha
[14:57] <directhex> thunder
[14:57] <directhex> THUNDER
[14:58] <directhex> THUNDERCATS HO!
[14:58] <selinuxium> :D
[14:58] <davmor2> see how happy it makes people
[14:58] <Dave2> I'm still disappointed with Gutsy
[15:00] <diddledan> the g series should have been gestational granny
[15:00] <diddledan> :-p
[15:00] <diddledan> </troll?
[15:01] <diddledan> as if you didn't know I was trolling
[15:01] <diddledan> ... as if I ever don't troll :-D
[15:07] <davmor2> popey: bigcalm: it gets better http://www.sears.com/young-men-s-thundercats-logo-t-shirt/p-043VA48542901P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&kpid=04397024003&kispla=043VA48542901P
[15:07] <davmor2> they alread made the T-Shirt :D
[15:08] <davmor2> already even
[15:09] <bigcalm> davmor2: that URL gives me no information that is relevant to your statement
[15:10] <davmor2> bigcalm: click it twice I got a weird link from the sears frontpage originally
[15:10] <bigcalm> Tesco Hudl has been dispatched. Delivery date is 25th :(
[15:11] <davmor2> bigcalm: http://ubuntuone.com/6sQMNSDAbeYy2XA9qRtHx7 try that instead
[15:14] <bigcalm> davmor2: humm
[15:14] <davmor2> haha
[15:25] <awilkins> I said the position of our MS-Stack-Happy colleagues on the other side of our office basically equated to "Ballmercats! HO!" the other day.
[15:27] <diddledan> awilkins: but.. but.. ballmer and his developers rant will soon be history! :-o
[15:28] <awilkins> Yeah, but we don't know who's next. And "Gatescats!" doesn't work
[15:28] <awilkins> In fact, it sounds distinctly non family-channel friendly.
[15:29] <diddledan> I didn't even say a word!
[15:29] <awilkins> But also an adequate description of their OS <ducks>
[15:32] <diddledan> why is everyone and his dog jumping on the "fullscreen" bandwagon?
[15:32] <diddledan> I just got an email from mozilla announcing that firefox does fullscreen now
[15:33] <diddledan> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-make-firefox-and-websites-go-full-screen
[15:33]  * awilkins was under the impression that pushing F11 did that already for QUITE some time
[15:34] <diddledan> it looks like they're doing it the apple way
[15:34] <awilkins> How's that?
[15:34] <diddledan> so this "feature" is only on os x
[15:34] <awilkins> It goes "Swoosh" then it's full screen?
[15:34] <diddledan> yup
[15:34] <diddledan> that's about the size of it
[15:34] <awilkins> Ah. How exciting.
[15:35] <diddledan> "Toggle Full Screen keyboard shortcut: command + Shift + F"
[15:35] <diddledan> that is about the only suggestion that it's apple only
[15:36] <awilkins> If you have access to the command-shift-F key combo, why the hell would you want to poke the screen?
[15:37] <diddledan> ooh, my mirror is synced... finally - set it syncing on wednesday
[15:37] <ali1234> can you get SD card readers with multiple slots?
[15:37] <diddledan> I messed up though and had it spawning new syncs every 3 hours without first checking whehter the previous one had finished
[15:37] <AlanBell> ali1234: yes
[15:37] <diddledan> ali1234: as in multiple formats or lots of sd slots?
[15:38] <AlanBell> both
[15:38] <ali1234> lots of SD slots
[15:38] <ali1234> don't care about anything else
[15:38] <ali1234> and they have to be fast
[15:38] <popey> more efficient to have multiple ones innit?
[15:38] <ali1234> ideally 4 slots with a PCI-E or SATA interface
[15:38] <popey> ah, okay
[15:38] <diddledan> o_O
[15:38] <popey> was thinking 4 over usb would suck
[15:39] <ali1234> it would suck even if they were separate, unless you used 4 different root hubs
[15:39] <diddledan> totally calls for raid
[15:39] <diddledan> :-p
[15:40] <awilkins> Oh, BritGas prices up 9.2%, thanks Magic Ed.
[15:40] <diddledan> \o/
[15:40] <popey> http://www.sonnettech.com/product/qio.html
[15:40] <popey> only two though
[15:40] <AlanBell> http://www.amazon.com/Microboards-CopyWriter-15-Card-Duplicator/dp/B0050J9D86/ref=pd_sim_sbs_p_8
[15:41] <popey> thats a duplicator not reader tho
[15:41] <awilkins> Four slot compact flash reader : http://www.sonnettech.com/product/qiocf4.html
[15:41] <AlanBell> yeah
[15:41] <ali1234> the problem i have is that i need to copy video from 4 cameras to disk at a rate faster than they record it
[15:41] <ali1234> each camera records at 54mbit/s
[15:41] <AlanBell> ah, right
[15:42] <ali1234> the cameras can't be connected directly to a computer though
[15:42] <ali1234> so i will have to keep emptying the SD cards all day
[15:42] <popey> http://www.amazon.com/Floppy-USB2-0-Internal-Memory-Reader/dp/B001L1GKTM haha
[15:42] <popey> wonder what else they could squeeze in
[15:43] <popey> ali1234: lots of cards
[15:43] <popey> then you have a backlog to copy off
[15:43] <ali1234> 32GB SD cards are expensive
[15:43] <popey> thats what we did at oggcamp
[15:43] <ali1234> we can't afford 40 of them
[15:44] <popey> multiple computers/
[15:44] <popey> ?
[15:44] <AlanBell> http://www.synchrotech.com/products/card-rw_41_x4sd-usb-2.0-sd-card-reader-four-4-slot.html would also work
[15:44] <diddledan> does anybody have a spare 5.25" floppy drive they can part with?
[15:44] <popey> USB2 though
[15:44] <ali1234> we can't afford multiple computers either
[15:44] <popey> would bottleneck it
[15:45] <bigcalm> Of course it was silly of me to upgrade my laptop. It won't boot now :)
[15:45] <diddledan> bigcalm: :-(
[15:46]  * bigcalm goes back to work
[15:48] <SuperMatt> tactile toucan
[15:49] <SuperMatt> I'm still guessing over here
[15:52] <davmor2> SuperMatt: Tangled Thunderbirds
[15:53] <directhex> you can't upgrade windows 8 to windows 8.1 if your home directories are on a different partition to your kernel. thanks, microsoft. thicrosoft.
[15:56] <BigRedS> wasn't there a ubuntu bug about /var being on a separate volume
[15:58] <diddledan> directhex: really?
[15:58] <diddledan> directhex: I've done that on my desktop
[15:58] <diddledan> directhex: I did it because my ssd is teeny
[15:59] <directhex> diddledan, well, 8.1 won't install for you.
[16:00] <BigRedS> Yeah, we hit it on a bunch of servers a while ago and it's why they're all on CentOS
[16:00] <BigRedS> I can't remember what it was any more, but it was an LTS->LTS upgrade
[16:05] <directhex> diddledan, apparent workaround: 8.1 iso from msdn, install using demo key, activate using real win8 key
[16:05] <directhex> (can't install with win8 key)
[16:06] <diddledan> I read that 8.1 wouldn't activate with an 8.0 key
[16:06] <diddledan> you have to upgrade using the store and hope it stays activated afaict
[16:06] <directhex> yay
[16:07] <awilkins> You WHUT???
[16:07]  * awilkins is glad he's still on 7
[16:07] <awilkins> For games only, 'natch
[16:08] <awilkins> All Hail Gabe and the gods of Steam, etc.
[16:18] <bigcalm> Is there a mock file extension for crontab configurations that I can use for various IDE syntax highlighting to work?
[16:18] <Dave2> does .cron work?
[16:19]  * bigcalm gives it a go
[16:19] <bigcalm> My IDE didn't know what to do with it so I told it that it was a text file. Ah well :)
[16:24]  * awilkins observes that vim knows what a crontab is
[16:25] <Dave2> indeed
[16:43] <bigcalm> Using .cron as an extension makes visual sense. I'm sticking with it
[19:54] <Daviey> bigcalm: If your IDE is vim, it knows it is a cron file just by the syntax.
[20:21] <diddledan> vim. every n00bs worst nightmare
[20:21] <diddledan> n00b's**
[20:21] <diddledan> vim. every die-hard's best buddy
[20:22] <diddledan> or maybe that should read "every die-hard's dream date"?
[20:23] <diddledan> well anywho, it's supposed to be dreamy for the initiated and impossible for the less-so
[20:26] <gordonjcp> it's okay
[20:26] <gordonjcp> turning on syntax highlighting, line numbering and auto indent helps a lot
[20:35] <diddledan> sumblime text ftw
[20:40] <diddledan> windows. I need to reinstall.
[20:40] <diddledan> dangit
[20:40] <diddledan> this is gonna take FOREVER!
[20:41] <diddledan> maybe I should do something different
[20:41] <diddledan> !enter | diddledan
[20:42] <diddledan> aww, it doesn't like me
[20:43] <diddledan> should I have used > instead of | I wonder. I always get confused because whichever it is > or |, #wordpress uses the opposite
[21:28] <ali1234> i think we need a tag for "bugs in other desktops directly caused by patches made to make unity work correctly"
[21:32] <diddledan> ali1234: something broken?
[21:33] <ali1234> there are several bugs of this nature
[21:33] <diddledan> oh dear
[21:34] <ali1234> it's nothing new - it has been the case since unity was first released
[21:34] <diddledan> are they things the QA team should have caught?
[21:34] <ali1234> which QA team?
[21:34] <ali1234> the QA team of the other desktops did catch them
[21:35] <diddledan> to be fair, who in their right mind runs an ubuntu without unity :-p
[21:35] <ali1234> the problem is that fixing them would either involve breaking Unity or totally redesigning it, neither of which is going to happen
[21:35] <ali1234> literally everyone who uses it?
[21:35] <diddledan> lol