[00:00] <apachelogger> ScottK: kde bug 326170, kde bug 326172, kde bug 326173, kde bug 326175
[00:01] <apachelogger> oh actually I think I know why discover is not used for update management
[00:02] <apachelogger> it probably has no support for release updates :P
[00:03] <apachelogger> of course now is a bad time to check because there is no dev series ^^
[01:56] <valorie> gosh, ubuntu is still refusing connections on the torrents page
[01:56] <valorie> picky picky picky
[02:04] <ScottK> apachelogger: But wait.  There's more:  KDE Bug 326176, KDE Bug 326177, KDE Bug 326178
[03:08] <ahoneybun> howdy
[04:14] <Jekyll> any idea about https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=306344 ? 
[04:20] <valorie> Jekyll: jontheechidna hasn't been around much in IRC recently
[04:20] <valorie> I assume he'll respond on the bug
[04:33] <seaLne> ScottK: when you were getting those problems with muon did you check if there was a lock file in place, can't remember the location but the generic one that also stops apt-get. That turned out to be why muon wasn't appearing to do anything for me, apart from making the system tray icon appear
[05:05] <ScottK> seaLne: There are times where it is, in fact updating, so it's not locked.
[05:11] <seaLne> ok, just thought i'd say incase it was related. mine most likely just got upset at some point
[05:16]  * valorie shares the Hennessey around the channel
[05:18] <valorie> buntu torrent server still refusing connections
[08:38] <Riddell> ScottK: bug 1240951 for sru review
[09:36] <apachelogger> ScottK: you make it look as if the updater was entirely broken :P
[09:36] <soee> good morning
[10:10] <Riddell> there's a new plasma-nm, do we do an SRU which might fix our crash on upgrade or not bother since it's faffy to upgrade back to the old kded and plasmoid names
[10:10] <Riddell> bug 1231360
[10:12] <Riddell> hmm muon upgrader says my system is up to date when I know there's new stuff that could be installed
[10:41] <apachelogger> Riddell: we went on abug reprot spree on updater yesterday
[10:41] <apachelogger> there's quite some issues
[10:42] <apachelogger> and as for plasma-nm, I'd look into how reliably we can roll users to the new names
[10:42] <apachelogger> if there is a tiny chance it can go wrong I'd use a different approach
[10:43] <apachelogger> Riddell: what I have been thinking about... if the plasma-nm people planon doing another release before the end of the year we may want to SRU that as well, so to enable that I'd pick the new plasma-nm and patch it the other way around (i.e. lower version and patch names of kded/applet to match what we have)
[10:44] <apachelogger> s/planon/planing on/
[10:44] <kubotu> apachelogger meant: "Riddell: what I have been thinking about... if the plasma-nm people planing on doing another release before the end of the year we may want to SRU that as well, so to enable that I'd pick the new plasma-nm and patch it the other way around (i.e. lower version and patch names of kded/applet to match what we have)"
[11:51] <Riddell> apachelogger: why would we want to patch names to what we currently have?
[12:02] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: Quintasan: did either of you look at the telepathy PPA? david queries it a while ago and I don't know if anyone got back to him
[12:06] <Riddell> !newversion calligra 2.7.4
[12:06] <Riddell> hmm
[12:06] <Riddell> kubotu: newversion calligra 2.7.4
[12:06] <Riddell> ...
[12:06] <kubotu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1241536
[12:06] <Riddell> yay :)
[12:27] <smartboyhw> ahoneybun is applying for Kubuntu membership, nice
[12:28] <Riddell> awooga
[12:31] <smartboyhw> He will probably get a cleaner vote than mine:P
[12:34] <Riddell> I think we were all happy to have you as a member
[12:35] <smartboyhw> Riddell, I don't know why, but everytime I apply for such membership/developer stuff it doesn't go as good as I wished (LOL)
[12:42] <Riddell> smartboyhw: well we're very glad to have you!
[12:44] <smartboyhw> Riddell, I know, just hoping that ahoneybun gets the application very good;P
[12:58] <agateau> Riddell: I have a fix for the "back-button-of-death" bug in Ubiquity. Have you filed a bug on LP?
[12:59] <Riddell> agateau: oh cool, yeah hang on
[12:59] <Riddell> bug 1240859
[12:59] <Riddell> agateau: ↑
[13:00] <agateau> Riddell: ok, thanks
[13:02] <agateau> the bug was not related to wireless, it just happens that (I guess) wireless is the first time we have a skippable page in the kde ui
[13:02] <Riddell> yeah
[13:03] <agateau> my fix is similar to a fix done in 2007(!) on the GTK frontend
[13:03] <Riddell> back in the day
[13:05] <agateau> https://code.launchpad.net/~agateau/ubiquity/kde-fix-going-back/+merge/191806
[13:12] <jalcine> BBoD; sounds like a band
[13:12] <Riddell> agateau: looks simple enough, I'll upload it, thanks
[13:13] <agateau> Riddell: great
[13:27] <smartboyhw> Riddell, BTW is ahoneycutt's vote in UTC or own timezone when viewed in Doodle?
[13:27] <smartboyhw> I'm not a KC member, but really would like to support him
[13:28] <Riddell> smartboyhw: I assumed it was UTC
[13:28] <Riddell> but you'd need to ask him
[13:36] <smartboyhw> Riddell, sure
[14:02] <ScottK> apachelogger: re the updater - I'm sure it's OK if you wait for it to d it's automatice check for new packages and let you know, however if you try to manually check for udpates, yeah, it's pretty broken.  Certainly a substantial regression from what was there before.
[14:03] <smartboyhw> Trusty Tahr -- The new T codename http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1295
[14:08] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[14:14] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: apachelogger http://i.imgur.com/WMWd7Bm.png
[14:15] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: ooh!
[14:15] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: could do with a vertical spacer at the bottom though :)
[14:15] <shadeslayer_> heh yeah
[14:26] <ScottK> Riddell: The kubuntu-doc package itself looks fine, but the bug needs the usual SRU stuff added to it.
[14:31] <Riddell> ScottK: test case added
[14:31] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: http://i.imgur.com/1eMWf19.png
[14:34] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: lovely :)
[14:35] <lordievader> Good afternoon.
[15:17] <jefferai> Hi Kubuntu people. I have a question that I think one of you packagers might know the answer to.
[15:17] <jefferai> The question is this: when statically linking, how do CFLAGS of different static libraries affect each other?
[15:17] <jefferai> for instance, if one libary is built with -O2 and your executable is built with -O3, is this an issue?
[15:17] <jefferai> I imagine it isn't because static linking still has those libraries as distinct entities so CFLAGS don't really bug each other
[15:17] <jefferai> but I'm not sure and figure someone else might know better
[15:17] <jefferai> (I'm also interested in whether these days you still get a noticeable boost from static linking. Reading around suggests that yes, you do, but that it depends on how many shared library calls you're making)
[15:20] <shadeslayer_> I don't think it makes a difference, but I have very little experience with static linking
[15:22] <Riddell> jefferai: we don't use static libraries so I guess there's not much experience here
[15:22] <jefferai> Riddell: Sure. But packagers tend to know more about the linking process than I do in general  :-)
[15:22] <Riddell> jefferai: I suspect that dynamic loading still takes a long time but haven't tested
[15:23] <jefferai> dynamic loading isn't a huge concern for me; if it takes a few extra seconds to load and will run for 6 months I don't really care
[15:24] <jefferai> I saw an IBM article which said that the extra translation causes a performance degredation when calling shared library routines; at the same time dynamic linking, because it shares copies in memory, reduces the risk of expensive page faults
[15:24] <jefferai> but no indication which one is likely to trump the other :-)
[15:26] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: can you fire up a python3 shell
[15:27] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: and run these 3 lines http://pastebin.kde.org/puushiub2
[15:27] <shadeslayer_> and then pastebin the result
[15:32] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: http://pastebin.kde.org/p64gcqqpd
[15:32] <shadeslayer_> oh
[15:33] <Riddell> but I have a nice thinkpad without evil hardware in it
[15:34] <genii> They've certainly gone downhill since IBM stopped making them.
[15:34] <shadeslayer_> ^^
[15:34] <shadeslayer_> anyway
[15:34] <shadeslayer_> anyone with evil hardware
[15:35] <shadeslayer_> with evil proprietary drivers installed
[15:35] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer_, not here, I ran it and same result (and please, no evil proprietary drivers>_>
[15:35] <genii> shadeslayer_: I'm using nvidia
[15:35] <shadeslayer_> genii: could you run these 3 lines http://pastebin.kde.org/puushiub2
[15:38] <genii> shadeslayer_: OK, hang on a bit
[15:41] <genii> shadeslayer_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6257975/
[15:41] <shadeslayer_> o_O
[15:41] <smartboyhw> genii, use usr/bin/python3 instead?
[15:42] <shadeslayer_> do you have python3-apt
[15:42] <shadeslayer_> smartboyhw: no that's fine, I have python3.3
[15:42] <shadeslayer_> and it works
[15:42] <shadeslayer_> I think he's missing python3-apt : ImportError: No module named apt_pkg
[15:43] <genii> shadeslayer_: apt-cache policy python3-apt:      Installed: 0.8.9.1ubuntu1
[15:43] <shadeslayer_> huh
[15:43] <ScottK> shadeslayer_: I have evil hardware, but not with me.  I can do it tonight or tomorrow if no one else does.
[15:43] <shadeslayer_> ack
[15:45] <genii> Same exact error if I use the /usr/bin/python3.2    ( there is also just python3 there, should i try that? )
[15:45] <shadeslayer_> IIRC python3 is just a symlink
[15:46] <debfx> shadeslayer_: http://pastebin.kde.org/parc7eaok
[15:46] <ScottK> Riddell: Accepted into proposed.
[15:46] <shadeslayer_> ok so not limited to my machine then
[15:47] <shadeslayer_> Ubuntu Drivers should return a 'selected' key for the currently selected driver
[15:47] <shadeslayer_> except that it does not 
[15:47] <debfx> also not very efficient, taking nearly 48s
[15:48] <shadeslayer_> well, can be improved, those 2 commands recreate the cache
[15:49] <BluesKaj> dkms status will show the graphics driver in use
[15:49] <BluesKaj> if it's the non default
[15:49] <shadeslayer_> BluesKaj: Ideally UbuntuDrivers would provide the information
[15:49] <shadeslayer_> I've emailed Albert about it
[15:50] <genii> Ah, I didn't notice that python3 links to python3.3 . When I use that instead, it just churns for a bit with no output whatsoever and returns to command prompt after about 30 seconds
[15:50] <shadeslayer_> wow, really? works with python3.3?
[15:50] <shadeslayer_> and doesn't with 3.2
[15:50] <genii> shadeslayer_: Correct, yes
[15:51] <debfx> python3.2 isn't in the archive anymore since raring so it's not surprising that it's broken
[15:52] <genii> shadeslayer_: Here, the python3.2 links to python3.2mu  if it makes any difference
[15:54] <shadeslayer_> debfx: this is also fun http://pastebin.kde.org/pridgdsbp
[15:58] <ScottK> shadeslayer_ and genii: Makes complete sense because Python extensions are only built for supported python vresions.
[15:58] <ScottK> It's no surprise at all that python3-apt doesn't support it.
[15:59] <ScottK> This is a feature, not a bug.
[16:04] <afiestas> apachelogger: ping
[16:15] <apachelogger> afiestas: pong
[16:16] <apachelogger> ScottK: it also failed with auto detected updates... alas I got a notification but muon-updater then said there are no updates until I did a manual check
[16:17] <ScottK> apachelogger: Fun.  Perhaps I was being too kind in my bug reports.
[16:17] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[16:17] <apachelogger> I am not too happy about the premature inclusion of pre-release muon for the sake of getting discover
[16:20] <shadeslayer_> wohoo
[16:20] <shadeslayer_> http://i.imgur.com/eWmniKq.png
[16:21] <genii> Hm. Jockey reports that no proprietary drivers are in use on this sytem, however, lsmod begs to differ.
[16:21] <shadeslayer_> want to try my app ? :P
[16:22] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: I think you neesd someone with UI knowledge to make that more pleasing to the eye :P
[16:22] <genii> shadeslayer_: Do i need to be running drivers from stock repos for this stuff to work properly? Because I'm actually running xorg-edgers for my nvidia
[16:23] <shadeslayer_> genii: no
[16:23] <ScottK> genii: Jockey has suffered from some bit rot since only Kubuntu is still using it.  I fixed it to support install for saucy release, but other problems don't particularly surprise me.
[16:23] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: so, not you? :D
[16:23] <apachelogger> I am better at writing perl than I am at making UIs not suck donkey balls
[16:24] <genii> shadeslayer_: I'll give whatever you got a go and report back if you like
[16:24] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: I do think we have widgets for that though
[16:24] <apachelogger> based of qframe
[16:25] <apachelogger> would at least provide continuity
[16:25] <shadeslayer_> genii: lp:~rohangarg/+junk/driver-manager-kde 
[16:25] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: and I think the window size is off :P
[16:25] <shadeslayer_> genii: you'll need to edit driver-manager-kde.py to fix the path
[16:25] <shadeslayer_> for the designer file
[16:25] <genii> shadeslayer_: OK
[16:26] <shadeslayer_> the buttons don't work ofcourse ^_^
[16:26] <apachelogger> huh
[16:26] <apachelogger> how can the buttons not work?
[16:26] <shadeslayer_> by not doing anything 
[16:27] <apachelogger> that's two connects
[16:27] <apachelogger> in fact you can even connect it to the qdialog via designer
[16:27] <shadeslayer_> heh
[16:27] <genii> shadeslayer_: Doesn't like me trying to get into the +junk directory
[16:27] <apachelogger> it's da first thing I do when I put a button somewhere :P
[16:28] <shadeslayer_> I need to look at muon api first :)
[16:29] <apachelogger> the shining is a very weird movie
[16:30] <shadeslayer_> hmm not sure how to make this integrated into muon
[16:30] <apachelogger> drop it
[16:30] <apachelogger> rewrite in c++
[16:31] <apachelogger> actually I do strongly believe that what you need to do is python bind libmuon/libqapt
[16:32] <shadeslayer_> I have no idea what python bind libmuon/libqapt is
[16:32] <apachelogger> generate a python binding module for the libraries
[16:32] <apachelogger> a la pykde
[16:32] <shadeslayer_> bah
[16:32] <apachelogger> otherwise you cannot access muon
[16:33] <apachelogger> and as I said the other way is to write in c++ and then use cpython to access the python bits inside the c++ code (which is more of a pain than getting bindings generated)
[16:34] <apachelogger> ... at least cpython was rather painful last I looked at it which was a while ago but I doubt anyone wrote a more usable API yet :P
[16:36] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: http://pythonqt.sourceforge.net/
[16:37] <shadeslayer_> oh
[16:37] <shadeslayer_> fun
[16:38] <ScottK> It's already packaged, FYI.
[16:38] <shadeslayer_> yeah
[16:38] <shadeslayer_> lets rewrite this in C++!
[16:38] <apachelogger> question is which way is the better
[16:39] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: well, we get Muon integration the other way around
[16:39] <apachelogger> because IMO python bindings may be useful in the long run
[16:39] <apachelogger> so I'd talk with JT about this
[16:39] <apachelogger> see what he thinks
[16:42] <ScottK> Getting a standalone move from jockey to ubuntu-drivers would be a big win.  So don't stop while youre getting the integration sorted.
[16:43] <shadeslayer_> well, all I need to sort out is the installation part
[16:43] <shadeslayer_> and I'll have a basic prototype which works
[16:44] <shadeslayer_> I suppose I could just use the apt bindings for now
[16:44] <shadeslayer_> and show a dialog
[16:45] <genii> Ah, nvm, was code.launchpad.net :) , I'm there now
[16:45] <shadeslayer_> :)
[17:27] <shadeslayer_> wth
[17:29] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: could you have a look at lp:~rohangarg/+junk/driver-manager-kde 
[17:29] <shadeslayer_> and tell me why the hell is it not running?
[17:30] <shadeslayer_> oh
[17:30] <shadeslayer_> ohhh
[17:30] <shadeslayer_> nvm nvm
[18:00] <claydoh> are daily builds for packages in kubuntu updates ppa the norm now?
[18:16] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: http://i.imgur.com/VsAcSHu.png
[18:16] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: ^^
[18:23]  * ScottK waves to claydoh.
[18:23] <ScottK> (no idea about your question)
[18:23] <shadeslayer_> claydoh: might want to ask yofel
[18:25] <claydoh> hi shadeslayer_ and ScottK, A forum user was wondering about all the daily packages he has been getting since upgrading to saucy, he has the updates ppa enabled
[18:27] <claydoh> the "git" in the versioning is the concern I guess :)
[18:32] <shadeslayer_> ScottK: claydoh how do you guys like http://i.imgur.com/VsAcSHu.png
[18:35] <claydoh> shadeslayer_:  nice
[18:41] <ScottK> shadeslayer_: Looks nice.  I think it'll be much better than the current Jocky U/I.
[18:41] <ScottK> Jockey ...
[18:54] <shadeslayer_> :)
[18:56] <ScottK> shadeslayer_: What's the maximum height your U/I will need?  Please keep it un 550 pixels.
[18:56] <ScottK> s//un/under/
[18:56] <kubotu> ScottK meant: "unshadeslayer_: What's the maximum height your U/I will need?  Please keep it un 550 pixels."
[18:56] <shadeslayer_> ScottK: me and afiestas just discussed some issues about width
[18:56] <ScottK> No, I didn't.
[18:56] <shadeslayer_> and height
[18:56] <ScottK> OK.
[18:56] <shadeslayer_> for eg. the Device text might get too wide
[18:57] <shadeslayer_> or we might have a bazillion drivers needed
[18:57] <shadeslayer_> ( The most proprietary laptop in the world )
[18:57] <ScottK> We should support a 576 x 800 netbook and with a 24 px panel, that leaves ~500.
[18:57] <shadeslayer_> ack
[18:57] <shadeslayer_> I'll fix that tomorrow
[18:57] <shadeslayer_> need to head back home now
[18:57] <ScottK> K
[18:58] <ScottK> shadeslayer_: I'd also ask Pitt and tseliot for thoughts on U/I.
[18:58] <ScottK> err pitti
[21:04] <ahoneybun> hey
[21:04] <soee> hi guys
[21:14] <ScottK> soee: Great job on all the ISO testing.  Thanks.
[21:15] <soee> best distro deserved that :]
[21:19] <ahoneybun> ScottK: can you vote on the doodle for my membership meeting>
[21:20] <ahoneybun> ?
[22:47] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1241859] package libqtgui4 4:4.8.1-0ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: lectura insuficiente en buff... @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1241859 (by Lucas Germán Burgos)
[23:13] <ahoneybun> hey valorie
[23:13] <valorie> hi ahoneybun
[23:13] <ahoneybun> it seems that the installation page was inclued
[23:14] <ahoneybun> included
[23:14] <valorie> :(
[23:14] <valorie> damn it, I asked over and over for that to be removed
[23:14] <valorie> grrrr
[23:14] <valorie> for two weeks
[23:15] <ahoneybun>  I talked to lordievader about it he did remove it from the package just someone needed to upload it or build it 
[23:15] <ahoneybun> something like that
[23:16] <valorie> I guess people who have already installed won't bother to look at the install section
[23:16] <valorie> but still, it looks BAD
[23:16] <valorie> there are notes in there, and it just plain isn't finishe
[23:16] <valorie> d
[23:16] <ahoneybun> anyway we got the docs on there
[23:16] <valorie> fine for a wiki
[23:17] <apachelogger> filing bugs helps with getting issues resolved :P
[23:17] <valorie> nothing else
[23:17] <valorie> afaik, a bug was filed
[23:17] <apachelogger> only seen one from JR filed on release day or something like that
[23:17] <valorie> I was asked, and I gave an answer
[23:17] <apachelogger> anyway
[23:17] <valorie> had I been asked to file a bug, I would have done so
[23:17] <valorie> yeah
[23:17] <valorie> too late now
[23:18] <apachelogger> since you need to look into l10n ... I guess it would be worthwhile to also work out a way to get certain pages not exported
[23:18] <valorie> next time we'll have it done
[23:18] <apachelogger> and ultimately not by having a manual balcklist in whatever creates the package export
[23:18] <apachelogger> e.g. a special category or something (kinda depends on the wiki sofwtare I guess ^^)
[23:18] <ahoneybun> I think we need to clear that lp for the package as those bugs are all old
[23:19] <valorie> well, ultimately we want to ship only the mini-doc package, in docbook
[23:19] <apachelogger> docbook?
[23:19] <apachelogger> wut?
[23:19] <apachelogger> huh? :P
[23:19] <valorie> the wiki -> website is fine, for the website
[23:19] <ahoneybun> valorie: lordievader is moving a test page to MediaWiki
[23:19] <valorie> yes, good old xml
[23:19] <ahoneybun> to see how the export works there
[23:19] <apachelogger> valorie: so what's on the CD?
[23:19] <valorie> apachelogger: afaik, the website
[23:19] <apachelogger> ahoneybun, lordievader: talk to upstream first
[23:20] <apachelogger> valorie: so what's docbook used for then? I am confused :/
[23:20] <ahoneybun> apachelogger: they use MediaWiki 
[23:20] <valorie> apachelogger: it will not work for us to use the KDE infra for our wiki
[23:20] <apachelogger> ahoneybun: I mean if they ever looked into export etc.
[23:20] <valorie> we either use the Ubuntu wiki, or our own install of mediawiki
[23:20] <ahoneybun> apachelogger: true
[23:20] <valorie> sure, they export all the time
[23:20] <apachelogger> valorie: yes
[23:21] <apachelogger> valorie: I did not say we should use their infrasturcutre, I said we shoudl talk to them
[23:21] <valorie> that's how the Amarok Handbook is made
[23:21] <apachelogger> because doing research our friends at KDE did already is kind of a waste of time :P
[23:21] <valorie> sure
[23:21] <valorie> I agree
[23:21] <ahoneybun> I'm just looking for what gives us the best docs
[23:21] <valorie> and I've talked to them
[23:21] <ahoneybun> and does not waste time like apachelogger said 
[23:21] <valorie> of course
[23:22] <valorie> we're raking over ground we covered while starting this up
[23:22] <ahoneybun> Yea we talked about MediaWiki before
[23:23] <valorie> the problem I have with installing our own wiki is 1. upkeep and 2. abandoning the great Ubuntu wiki stuff
[23:23] <valorie> but damn, moinmoin sucks
[23:23] <ahoneybun> valorie: agreed in areas
[23:23] <valorie> there is no perfect answer
[23:24] <valorie> we just have to choose a path and move ahead
[23:24] <ahoneybun> valorie: amarok uses mediawiki right?
[23:24] <valorie> yes
[23:24] <ahoneybun> and they use docbook.
[23:25] <valorie> we don't use our own wiki any more because upkeep is hell
[23:25] <valorie> right
[23:25] <valorie> that script is available to us
[23:25] <apachelogger> claydoh: oh, btw, saucy subforums on kf.net could need fiddling with, there's still only pre-release apparently
[23:25] <valorie> the translation tools are available to us
[23:25] <valorie> etc.
[23:25] <ahoneybun> what about making a odf, a text file
[23:25] <valorie> that is also possible
[23:26] <valorie> when enabled
[23:26] <ahoneybun> I like that idea Mint does that I believe
[23:26] <valorie> so that it can be easily read on devices
[23:26] <apachelogger> I think html is more accessible on devices than odf
[23:26] <valorie> I have an old copy of the handbook on my kindle
[23:26] <valorie> :-)
[23:26] <ahoneybun> yea we could have both
[23:26] <valorie> well, you can do all kinds of output
[23:26] <ahoneybun> I mean it is for the mini docs
[23:27] <apachelogger> what are mini docs?
[23:27] <ahoneybun> only do this for the mini docs the main will be the site
[23:27] <valorie> apachelogger: we want to have a small subset of the docs which are well translated
[23:27] <ahoneybun> apachelogger: basic starter things
[23:27] <valorie> the parts that rarely change
[23:28] <apachelogger> shouldn't that be all the docs?
[23:28] <ahoneybun> apachelogger: too much for a small team
[23:28] <apachelogger> i.e. everythign else ought to be covered by help.ubuntu.com
[23:29] <apachelogger> so IMO docs.kubuntu == what we ship in the package and what is well translated; help.ubuntu all the other rubbish (like how do I set up an openconnect vpn or whatnot)
[23:29] <valorie> apachelogger: would be great to get them all translated, but where are the people to do that?
[23:29] <apachelogger> valorie: ubuntu l10n team, who you probably also should talk to
[23:30] <valorie> that is a good idea, yes
[23:30] <apachelogger> at least german kubuntu stuff is being translated ;)
[23:30] <apachelogger> and polish
[23:30] <valorie> but I believe they also work from the docbook
[23:30] <apachelogger> though the polish one has 3 untranslated strings in ubiquity (what a shame :()
[23:30] <ahoneybun> valorie: maybe work on the mini docs mostly and then try to expand with the help of the l10n team>
[23:31] <apachelogger> valorie: not entirely... it's a paragraph export from docbook to launchpad, so you have docbook markup and each paragraph as one translation unit
[23:32] <apachelogger> so I guess you should poke them about what they think about translating inside a wiki, if that would work for them, concerns etc.
[23:32] <valorie> translating inside a wiki sounds like a nightmare
[23:32] <valorie> outside of the tools for mediawiki
[23:32] <apachelogger> actually launchpad sounds worse
[23:32] <valorie> moinmoin is already a nightmare.....
[23:32] <ahoneybun> valorie: even more in moinmoin lol
[23:32] <apachelogger> valorie: moinmoin is a nightmare no matter waht
[23:32] <valorie> some how ahoneybun manages to make it behave
[23:32] <apachelogger> it's just not a good wiki IMO
[23:32] <apachelogger> but that's another story
[23:32] <valorie> agreed
[23:32] <valorie> horrible
[23:33] <apachelogger> valorie: point is...if they think translating inside a wiki given appropriate tooling is something they see themselfs doing and enjoying then that should be the added to the equation
[23:33] <ahoneybun> apachelogger: thanks for the help
[23:34] <apachelogger> if they are indifferent it doesn't matter, and if they absolutely want launchpad then having sane docbook export must be a selection criteria for the wiki
[23:34] <ahoneybun> valorie: off-topic seems that the 25 of this month is a good meeting time
[23:34] <valorie> apachelogger: thank you for that
[23:34] <valorie> ahoneybun: works for me
[23:34] <ahoneybun> 24
[23:35] <ahoneybun> I'm just waiting to see if anymore council vote in
[23:35] <apachelogger> ohoh
[23:35] <apachelogger> ScottK: seems muon is still crashing despite last minute fixery -.-
[23:35] <ahoneybun> valorie: looks like we need to talk to more people
[23:35] <valorie> you don't need the council for membership, I think?
[23:35] <valorie> just other kub. members
[23:35] <valorie> I could be wrong
[23:35] <apachelogger> ScottK: I really do question the entire pre-release testing process by now
[23:35] <ahoneybun> valorie: I need a meeting at the least
[23:35] <valorie> of course
[23:36] <valorie> work on your page!
[23:36] <ahoneybun> I did a but
[23:36] <ahoneybun> bit
[23:36] <ahoneybun> just don't know when I should close the poll
[23:36] <apachelogger> ScottK: like how does it go unnoticed that the thing is entirely broken for like 2 months until I accidentially stumble upon it because I didn't even know it was still installed...
[23:36] <apachelogger> ahoneybun: when you close it you close it :P
[23:37] <valorie> ok, I have to get away from this computer for now
[23:37] <valorie> ttyl peeps
[23:39] <apachelogger> ohohoho
[23:40] <apachelogger> ScottK: seems apol's fix was no good
[23:40] <apachelogger> or incomplete