[00:34]  * skellat finally starts downloading Xubuntu 13.10 final
[00:34] <belkinsa> Have fun, skellat
[00:35]  * Unit193 be seedin'
[00:36] <skellat> Anybody spontaneously erupt into a release party today/tonight?
[00:37] <belkinsa> Naq
[00:37] <paultag> heh
[00:37] <belkinsa> Time to think about the T-cycle
[00:37] <paultag> which still has no name
[00:38] <belkinsa> A shame.
[00:38] <belkinsa> Will there be a contest for that, though?
[00:38] <paultag> it can't open for devel without a name
[00:38] <paultag> where's marks
[00:38] <skellat> belkinsa: No contest.  SABDFL selects.
[00:38] <belkinsa> Oh, right.
[00:38] <skellat> Granted, #ubuntu-release still says Tantric Tarantula at the moment
[00:38] <paultag> off with the secretary? (SCNR)
[00:39] <belkinsa> skellat, that name is lame to my ears.
[00:39] <Unit193> Twitchy Tapeworm, or Twerking Tiger it is.
[00:39] <paultag> Twerking Tiger
[00:39] <paultag> yes
[00:39] <paultag> YES
[00:39] <belkinsa> Yes
[00:39] <skellat> Since when did we acquire Hannah Montana Linux?
[00:39] <skellat> :-)
[00:39] <belkinsa> lol
[00:40] <Unit193> Heh, for a second I went "Wrong chick" :P
[00:41] <skellat> How are we looking for flavor downloads?
[00:42] <paultag> hahahaha
[00:42]  * Unit193 licked all the flavors.
[00:42] <skellat> Urgh
[00:43] <skellat> I walked right into that one.
[00:43] <paultag> hahaha
[00:43] <belkinsa> lol
[00:43] <skellat> So, what are we all downloading?  Kubuntu?  Xubuntu?  Edubuntu?  mini.iso?
[00:43] <belkinsa> Though I would like to have a release name with Bearcat in it
[00:43] <belkinsa> Ubuntu here
[00:43] <paultag> dput-ng (1.7) twerking; urgency=high
[00:43] <Unit193> Hah!  Oh dear. :P
[00:44] <paultag> twerking titmouse
[00:44] <paultag> awesome
[00:47] <Unit193> paultag: Oh, did you know the debian-keyring in precise contains only expired keys? :D
[00:47] <paultag> oh great
[00:47] <skellat> That needs an SRU stat
[00:47] <Unit193> debootstrap faaaailed.
[00:47] <Unit193> (Easy fix.)
[00:47] <paultag> Oh yeah, no debootstrap for Debian on Ubuntu has been boned lately
[00:48] <Unit193> I like how Ubuntu keeps up with the geoip databases too!  :P
[00:49] <skellat> Unit193: Oh, the Montreal incident that kept the re-spins happening yesterday and made 13.10 impossible to install in Quebec for a while
[00:49] <skellat> Some bad in-fighting from the tzdata folks flowed downstream and nobody filtered out all the crud...some got through...
[00:50] <Unit193> Precise, the "LTS" Candidate: 20111220-1
[00:50] <skellat> Unit193: Did South Sudan exist yet then?
[00:51]  * Unit193 wouldn't know offhand.
[00:51] <skellat> geoip issues were a big topic of discussion over in -release yesterday
[00:53] <Unit193> I ignore the package, I use a script.
[01:16] <paultag> I missed this flame
[01:16] <paultag> is canonical collecting geoip data now?
[01:16] <paultag> (not shocked if yes)
[01:20] <Unit193> paultag: geoip-database, it's never updated in Ubuntu.
[01:20] <paultag> Ah.
[01:20] <paultag> Meh.
[01:21] <Unit193> I use ~/Public/geolite.sh -6 -c -i -a  works better and it's up to date.
[01:22] <Unit193> paultag: Oh, was reading some lists last night, you're in the sysd camp right?
[01:22] <paultag> yes
[01:22] <paultag> fsvo camp
[01:22] <Unit193> Bummer. :P
[01:22] <paultag> but yes
[01:22] <paultag> it's a clear technical win
[01:22] <paultag> having looked into the subject a bit
[01:23] <Unit193> Well, it's where Debian is leaning, so guess I'm going to have to try and not dislike it so much. :/
[01:24] <Unit193> (Ubuntu would be dumb not to follow, but doesn't mean it'll follow.)
[01:25] <paultag> Oh, with upstart?
[01:25] <paultag> I mean upstart is OK, but it's backwards from how the init should work
[01:26] <paultag> dependency based booting is more correct
[01:26] <Unit193> I'd prefer upstart, but if Debian goes with systemd it'd make sense for Ubuntu to follow.
[01:26] <paultag> why do you like upstart, Unit193?
[01:26] <paultag> so far as I can tell the only upside is that it's portable to BSD and HURD
[01:27] <paultag> which isn't an Ubuntu concern, nevermind a Unit193 concern
[01:27] <Unit193> It's better than what is there, and it isn't systemd.  It's more that I don't like systemd than that I do like upstart, and you're right, not really a concern. :)
[01:27] <Unit193> I'll poke at BSD and OpenIndiana here sometime.
[01:28] <paultag> mmm
[01:28] <paultag> It's better than what is there, ← what does this mean
[01:28] <paultag> and why are you throwing systemd out based on it's name
[01:28] <paultag> what's the technical issue here? :)
[01:28] <paultag> I'm actually interested
[01:28] <Unit193> Oh, it's not the name.
[01:28] <paultag> I can't tell! :)
[01:29] <Unit193> I'm not as much, and I know you can overpower with your points. :P
[01:29] <paultag> :þ
[01:29] <paultag> Well, I wasn't going to argue
[01:29] <paultag> I just want to know where people are coming from
[01:29] <Unit193> How it's going, and you can see it with logind and udev too.
[01:30] <Unit193> (Pet peeve is the default name for network devices. :P )  It seems like it tends to favor vendor lock in, if I read right the logind in Ubuntu is the last version you can use outside of systemd itself, no?
[01:30] <paultag> meaning the systemd team is maintaining too much of the lowlevel stack?
[01:31] <paultag> you can use any part of systemd outside of systemd
[01:31] <Unit193> No, more of sour grapes.
[01:31] <paultag> ah
[01:31] <paultag> udev in Debian is built from systemd
[01:31] <paultag> even if you don't have systemd installed
[01:31] <paultag> (unrelated to your points)
[01:31] <paultag> Just as a fun tidbit
[01:31] <Unit193> Same here: Binary: systemd, systemd-sysv, systemd-services, libpam-systemd, libsystemd-login0, libsystemd-login-dev, libsystemd-daemon0, libsystemd-daemon-dev, libsystemd-journal0, libsystemd-journal-dev, libsystemd-id128-0, libsystemd-id128-dev, udev, libudev1, libudev-dev, udev-udeb, libudev1-udeb, libgudev-1.0-0, gir1.2-gudev-1.0, libgudev-1.0-dev, python-systemd
[01:32] <paultag> ahha
[01:33] <paultag> brb
[01:33] <paultag> but Unit193 - systemd's not all bad
[01:33] <Unit193> I read a couple things on it, and it really didn't look like it was as "open" as would be nice, following Microsoft and Gnome into lock-in and forcing users wouldn't be good.  (Not saying they do the second.)
[01:33] <paultag> I like it, and I hate everything :)
[01:33] <Unit193> paultag: I'm sure it isn't.
[01:33] <paultag> BRB, need to jet
[01:33] <Unit193> We'll just have to see.
[01:33] <Unit193> Sure
[01:33] <paultag> one love ( ♥ , etc )
[01:34] <Unit193> (And on the wayland side, seems great except for one worry, I still run some old hardware and not sure if wayland would work well on it.  And yes I know xorg isn't going anywhere soon.)
[01:42] <Unit193> I suppose I could just try out Arch or Fedora and see how it is, at least for right now.
[01:46] <paultag> systemd is easy to install in Debian
[01:46] <paultag> and it works with init scripts
[01:46] <paultag> (back)
[01:47] <paultag> you just don't get much of the good stuff
[01:47] <paultag> but it works
[01:47] <paultag> and it's niceee.
[01:47] <paultag> spec files rule, and I love the daemon supervise stuff
[01:53] <Unit193> Yeah, of course they both work with init scripts.
[03:23] <ronnoc> Hi all
[03:28] <skellat> Hello
[03:40] <ronnoc> hi :)
[03:40] <ronnoc> oops gone
[03:51] <Unit193> Howdy, ronnoc!
[04:21] <gilbert> systemd no support freebsd :(
[04:23] <gilbert> :_(
[13:48] <thafreak> paultag: i don't like systemd because it's confusing as hell
[13:48] <thafreak> and even more reason that I've avoided fedora
[13:48] <thafreak> i had to find a "rosetta stone" web page to help me figure out the systemd commands to do simple stuff
[13:49] <thafreak> i also don't like how it's rolling too much functionality into one thing
[13:49] <thafreak> it goes against the unix philosophy
[13:50] <thafreak> i get how some poeople lump init based services with inetd based services etc, because they're all services
[13:50] <thafreak> but they should be separate
[13:50] <thafreak> so, please, if you have points why systemd is awesome, I'd love to hear them
[13:50] <thafreak> also, why the hell are you guys talking about it anyway? Did ubuntu switch to systemd?
[13:51] <thafreak> I need to know so I can stop using ubuntu if that's the case ;)
[13:54] <paultag> it should
[13:54] <paultag> but no, I want to see Debian on systemd
[13:54] <paultag> and it's not confusing.
[13:55] <thafreak> uh...it's definately not straight forward
[13:55] <paultag> it is
[13:55] <paultag> old init scripts work
[13:55] <paultag> there's literally no more straight forward than no changes
[13:58] <thafreak> there were changes...i had to look up how to do something with systemd when teaching the one sysadmin class
[13:58] <thafreak> cause they gave me fedora to work with
[13:58] <paultag> dude, what? :)
[13:59] <thafreak> i can't remember off hand what it was
[13:59] <paultag> anyway, brb, off to GOOG
[13:59] <paultag> much love
[13:59] <thafreak> systemctl disable foo.service
[13:59] <thafreak> why
[13:59] <thafreak> why foo.service?
[14:00] <thafreak> systemctl list-units --type=target
[14:00] <thafreak> to figure out what runlevel you're in
[14:01] <thafreak> that makes so much sense right?
[14:01] <thafreak> you wouldn't want the flag to have the word runlevel in there anywhere
[14:02] <thafreak> i give up, i'm not having fun anymore
[14:02] <thafreak> i quit sysadmin
[14:03] <thafreak> systemctl disable thafreak.sysadmin
[16:08] <jrgifford> whoa
[16:08] <jrgifford> mark is being weird
[18:20] <thafreak> shuttleworth?
[18:23] <Unit193> Isn't he always?
[20:32] <jrgifford> moreso than usual
[20:37] <Unit193> Oh?
[20:37] <jrgifford> have you noticed that over the last 5 cycles
[20:37] <jrgifford> he's gotten a little more edgy with every release blog post?
[20:39] <Unit193> Edgy Eft?  And no I haven't, I don't read it. :D  (I might have last time, but I've read under 6 posts by him)
[20:43] <Unit193> Hah, oh gee, "Mir is so great because everyone is attacking it." :P
[20:46] <skellat> jrgifford: SABDFL is a cosmonaut.  That makes him abnormal/unusual by anybody's definition...
[20:48] <Unit193> skellat: Doesn't give him a free pass, and that's what he used to be, he's not really anymore. ;)
[20:48] <jrgifford> lol
[20:50] <Unit193> Hey, I can heckle at Mir all I want, I gave it a fair shot (and helped others do the same, right? :-----D )
[20:53] <skellat> And then there are these thoughts on the new codename: http://bit.ly/19Yxe8a
[20:53] <jenni> [ Codepope's pontifications: Musings on the new Ubuntu 14.04 LTS codename ] - http://bit.ly
[20:53] <skellat> Tarantula would've been better
[20:54] <Unit193> I liked my name(s) better.