[03:28] <bjsnider> every image file opens at 99%
[03:36] <arthurfiggis> hello :) just a general question regarding ubuntu gnome...i'm currently using kubuntu (13.10) because of their plans to support wayland over mir, is ubuntu gnome planning to do the same for future releases? i'd like to give gnome 3 a try, but not if it means having to use mir or the dash lens :(
[03:37] <bjsnider> yes
[03:37] <bjsnider> it will be wayland
[03:37] <Noskcaj> arthurfiggis, You can install gnome3 on any ubuntu based system, if that's your issue
[03:38] <arthurfiggis> Noskcaj: oh no, i know that's already possible fortunately :) i was just wondering whether or not that'd be the case in the future more or less, or if it would require pulling in packages from canonical that i'd prefer not install :(
[03:39] <bjsnider> it will be getting better by about 14.10
[03:39] <arthurfiggis> Noskcaj, bjsnider: thanks very much for the information though, i couldn't find a good answer on google
[03:40] <arthurfiggis> bjsnider: that's great to know at least :) i don't have much invested in either xorg works fine for me as is, but wayland is the community solution whereas mir seems destined for...well, i'm not sure yet, hence the problem I suppose :P
[03:40] <arthurfiggis> (i'm not sure if canonical know either really, beyond that they'd really like to be selling tablets and cellphones)
[03:41] <bjsnider> i'm sure there will be a big push to get things working on the desktop
[03:42] <Noskcaj> Once mir properly gets going it should be interesting. If nothing else, it made wayland release faster
[03:42] <bjsnider> i think a bigger issue than mir/wayland is systemd
[03:44] <bjsnider> and it was singled out for criticism in the infamous blog post
[03:44] <arthurfiggis> bjsnider: i always thought systemd was an issue :( but that's just my general view i suppose, any solution that's locked to one particular kernel, compiler etc. i just don't like
[03:44] <bjsnider> the issue is it's locked to gnome
[03:45] <arthurfiggis> bjsnider: ahh, i see...was that largely a decision made my gnome or redhat? it seems like redhat really pushed systemd more than anyone else...but that's beyond the scope of the channel perhaps, sorry :)
[03:46] <bjsnider> i dunno who pushed it, bu lpoettering works for red hat
[03:48] <arthurfiggis> i do know that they pushed gnome 3 out a little bit earlier than they should have, which didn't help its image at the time, but that's irrelevant now :) i'm not sure what happened with gnome...2.32 was my favourite DE at the time, KDE 2.2.2 felt really...bloated :) then gnome 3 came out and things got a bit weird
[03:49] <arthurfiggis> then people like havoc pennington and de icaza started advocating for things like porting the Windows registry over in the form of the gconf database and things got -REALLY- weird
[03:50] <bjsnider> wait a minute now
[03:51] <bjsnider> gconf doesn't deal with anything important
[03:51] <arthurfiggis> if gnome 4 were less tied to systemd though that'd be great...i'd love to be able to run a more recent gnome on freebsd
[03:51] <bjsnider> it's just user customizations
[03:51] <arthurfiggis> bjsnider: well that's true...it's not technically very important, but it hid a lot of options away that were easily configurable oherwise i found :( now gnome-tweak-tool fixes pretty much all of that
[03:52] <bjsnider> anyway, gconf is dead
[03:52] <arthurfiggis> (that was when i tried the earlier gnome 3 releases anyway, i haven't in some time now but i'd like to just for the change :)  )
[03:52] <arthurfiggis> bjsnider: ahh...probably just as well then :) not as important as systemd as you say, but every bad idea that gets the axe
[03:54] <bjsnider> well dconf is a db too
[03:57] <arthurfiggis> that's true i suppose...the fact that something is stored in a database isn't necessarily the problem anyway :) but how it's implemented can  be...i never understood the logic behind hiding so many of the -basic- config options away, even the font size or icons on the desktop
[04:03] <bjsnider> well, obviously as you point out that is in tweak now
[04:15] <arthurfiggis> oh yes, there's been solutions since of course :) that's in part why i'm interested in trying gnome 3 now, the more recent releases are looking pretty good!
[04:27] <arthurfiggis> bjsnider: i do agree with your point that system-specific things like systemd are a bad thing to depend upon though :( that's perhaps the most curious choice of all, before that gnome ran just as well under freebsd as it did in linux (freebsd is what i have more experience with)
[04:28] <bjsnider> i did not make that point
[04:28] <arthurfiggis> bjsnider: oh sorry, perhaps i misunderstood
[04:28] <bjsnider> i am saying it will be a problem for canonical
[04:29] <arthurfiggis> hmm...now i'm not sure i follow then? unless systemd somehow prevents them from becoming more proprietary, which seems to be what they're interested in :(
[04:31] <bjsnider> i'm not saying it's bad for gnome to be so closely tied to systemd. if that's what they think is best, who am i to question that
[04:32] <bjsnider> it's a problem for canonical because they want to use upstart instead
[04:32] <arthurfiggis> bjsnider: ahh...yeah, that would be a bit of a stumbling block :P
[04:38] <arthurfiggis> that and intel so bluntly rebutting them for mir, that was unexpected...as i recall they stated they wouldn't even carry xmir patches upstream
[04:39] <arthurfiggis> let alone not supporting it in their drivers, in any way, period...you usually don't see a big hardware manufacturer come out that strongly on linux software :)
[06:23] <auscompgeek> Hmm, this is weird.
[06:24] <auscompgeek> gdm fails to start properly, but lightdm + unity-greeter works just fine.
[06:24] <auscompgeek> (X complains about not being able to detect my config properly)
[06:27] <darkxst> auscompgeek, logs?
[06:28] <auscompgeek> darkxst: logs didn't seem to give me much, but I could try and pastebin them
[06:28]  * auscompgeek can't remember where X stores logs
[06:28] <darkxst> gdm logs are in /var/log/gdm/:0*
[06:32] <auscompgeek> darkxst: it looks like gdm didn't create any logs today
[06:33] <darkxst> then its probably not starting, you did configure it as default display manager?
[06:35] <auscompgeek> darkxst: it was the only display manager until about 15 minutes ago, so I'd assume so
[06:36] <auscompgeek> darkxst: even tried `sudo start gdm`, which gave the same error message from X.org.
[06:36] <darkxst> auscompgeek, you can't do that!
[06:36] <darkxst> `sudo service gdm start`
[06:37] <auscompgeek> darkxst: don't `start` and `service ... start` do the same thing in upstart/ubuntu?
[06:39] <auscompgeek> darkxst: either way, whichever I do, same thing happens
[06:40] <darkxst> where/what is the error message?
[06:41] <auscompgeek> darkxst: on screen, X.org says that my display, etc. couldn't be detected and is falling back to low gfx mode
[06:41] <auscompgeek> darkxst: something along those lines
[06:41] <darkxst> and what graphics driver are you using?
[06:41] <auscompgeek> darkxst: nouveau
[06:41] <darkxst> auscompgeek, that means GLX didnt load properly
[06:41] <auscompgeek> hmm, interesting
[06:42] <darkxst> run `glxinfo | grep  -i opengl`
[06:44] <auscompgeek> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6275045/
[06:46] <darkxst> that looks correct
[06:47] <darkxst> auscompgeek, either try with Nvidia proprietry driver, or find the logs
[06:48] <auscompgeek> Heh. I was considering installing nvidia drivers anyway, so might as well.
[06:49] <auscompgeek> now, to make the tough decision of which version of the driver to install
[06:54] <darkxst> 325
[06:55] <darkxst> although that might not be in saucy
[07:11] <auscompgeek> no, it isn't
[07:11] <darkxst> auscompgeek, just grab the latest version there
[07:12] <auscompgeek> yeah, good idea
[07:12] <darkxst> nvidia-experimental or whatever
[07:12] <auscompgeek> nvidia-current is nvidia-304, when 319 is available :|
[07:12]  * auscompgeek installs 319 anyway
[07:13] <ricotz> auscompgeek, nvidia-319-updates
[07:14] <auscompgeek> ricotz: heh, might as well
[07:14] <ricotz> which is 319.60 in saucy
[07:15] <ricotz> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-325 https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-331 shows you were to get newer ones
[07:16] <auscompgeek> ricotz: seems edgy :P
[07:18] <ricotz> 325 isnt, 331 is ;)
[08:48] <darkxst> auscompgeek, 325 is pretty solid here
[09:51] <topyli> hm, empathy 3.10 seems to be a bit temperamental
[09:53] <topyli> auth errors (i guess) with facebook and jabber, and the dialog crashes when i go and edit the accounts. google talk works (set up via goa)
[09:54] <darkxst> topyli, facebook issues were pre-existing
[09:54] <topyli> oh yes, so it was
[09:55] <darkxst> can you file a bug for crash
[09:55] <darkxst> find the crash file in /var/crash and run ubuntu-bug crash-file
[09:58] <topyli> found it, ubuntu-bugging :)
[10:00] <topyli> two in fact, one for empathy-accounts and one for empathy-auth-client
[10:00] <darkxst> topyli, ok thanks
[10:00] <darkxst> ping the bugs to me once done, although I won't probably be able to look at them tonight
[10:01] <topyli> will do
[10:19] <clong_> Anybody about?
[10:19] <darkxst> hi clong_
[10:19] <clong_> Hello!
[10:20] <clong_> Just wondering where I can find known bugs on Ubuntu Gnome- I seem to be having some issues with 13.10, but I realise it's early days.
[10:21] <topyli> darkxst: #1242613 and #1242616
[10:22] <darkxst> clong_, relevant packages in launchpad
[10:25] <clong_> Is it under ubuntu -> gnome 3?
[10:26] <darkxst> clong_, what are you having issues with?
[10:27] <darkxst> topyli, I can't do anything much with those
[10:27] <darkxst> at the very least, try and use apport-retrace to get a backtrace
[10:28] <darkxst> topyli, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
[10:28] <topyli> ok, i'll have a look
[10:28] <clong_> I think there's two seperate issues, but a specific one: two minutes ago I was at the login screen (I think due to inactivity) and I couldn't focus on the password box or type in it with keyboard. Mouse was responsive and I could press space/enter on the cancel button.
[10:29] <darkxst> clong_, that is the lock screen, so `ubuntu-bug gnome-shell`
[10:29] <clong_> thanks darkxst
[10:30] <clong_> Is this the right place? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bugs
[10:33] <darkxst> clong_, yes, but do run `ubuntu-bug gnome-shell` rather than using the link there, it collects important information that we don't get in manual bug reports ;)
[10:41] <clong_> Should I wait to run this when the problem occurs, or can I run it now?
[10:49] <mgedmin> so.... ubuntu gnome removed the ubuntu version of Online Accounts from the system preferences
[10:49] <mgedmin> but AFAICS empathy is still patched to use Ubuntu accounts
[10:49] <mgedmin> which I can't now edit in any way at all?
[11:24] <clong_> Any idea how long we have to wait for Gnome 3.10 by the way? The improvements look great...
[11:25] <mgedmin> clong_, it's in the staging PPA, but "regressions exist", so I haven't tried it out yet
[11:25] <mgedmin> wheee, speaking of regressions
[11:25] <mgedmin> gnome-terminal's ctrl+shift+t no longer uses $PWD
[11:25] <mgedmin> because now I have to put some magic into my custom shell prompt
[11:25] <mgedmin> of course /usr/share/doc/gnome-terminal/NEWS.Debian does not exist
[11:27] <mgedmin> wait, I'm stooopid
[11:27] <mgedmin> accidentally working over ssh on a remote server
[11:27] <mgedmin> of course the local gnome-terminal can't set $PWD to that
[11:38] <auscompgeek> lol
[11:38] <auscompgeek> that sounds like fun
[12:37] <mgedmin> is anyone else seeing chromium's address bar text jumping up and down after the upgrade to 13.10?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/chromium-browser/+bug/1242663
[14:05] <bjsnider> darkxst, regarding my earlier statement about the problems created by systemd 205, here's what mbiebl says about it
 in systemd 205, all cgroup handling was moved into /lib/systemd/systemd
[14:05] <bjsnider>  i.e. it's no longer possible to run systemd-logind standalone
[14:05] <bjsnider>  i.e. under sysvinit or upstart
[14:05] <bjsnider>  as a result you'll need systemd as PID 1
[14:06] <bjsnider>  or put it differently: the hacks we currently use in logind to make it run standalone, no longer work
[14:13] <x-Na> Hi! Would this be the right place to give feedback on Gnome 3.10 on Ubuntu 13.10?
[14:14] <bjsnider> yes
[14:15] <x-Na> So, the only problem I have with that is that I really do need multiple users logged in. Unfortunately selecting "Switch user" causes the gnome-shell to crash for the user that has logged in
[14:16] <x-Na> I would really like to hunt down what causes it
[14:17] <x-Na> 3.8 with GDM seems to misbehave too, but 3.8 with lightdm is ok
[16:07] <x-Na> Hmh
[17:17] <joaosantana> hi all
[19:36] <bei>   hi. i just installed ubuntu 13.10 and i would like some help getting a printer working. i am using a samsung clp-320 which has never come up with a driver but usually i can choose the 315 driver and it works but now it just tells me it has failed and drops me back to the add printer screen with no ability to manually choose. any ideas how to add it?
[19:37] <bei> to clarify, i had manually chosen other drivers in (at least) ubuntu 12.10 and 13.04
[19:40] <bei> is there a (graphical) way to manually install a printer? or do i need to install something that isn't default?
[19:42] <bei> previously i would have followed something like this: http://blog.sudobits.com/2012/04/13/how-to-install-printer-driver-on-ubuntu-12-04/
[19:43] <bei> but the steps where i can choose how a driver is chosen (in my case manually) is missing
[19:46] <bjsnider> bei, there's system-config-printer, and if you open gnome system settings there's printers
[19:50] <vagvaf> hello people, i have ubuntu gnome 13.10. every time i go to "acitivities" and start typing the name of the programm i want to find i get asked for my account password, eventhough i am not logging in with an automatic log-in
[19:50] <vagvaf> any ideas?
[19:51] <bei> bjsnider: system-config-printer seems to be more what i am used to. i will let you know if it works. i wonder why is it hidden away?
[19:52] <bjsnider> could be that gnome is planning on something more substantial in systemsettings but h aven't finished it yet
[19:53] <bei> bjsnider: yeah, good call.
[19:53] <bei> also, to developers: thanks. l love gnome 3 and ubuntu and i appreciate all the effort that goes into making this happen. i should have said that before ploughing into my concern.
[21:54] <ronj> Hi, following up on a keyboard shortcuts issue with the gnome 3.10 present in gnome3-next: can anybody else reproduce https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1242423 ? Troubleshooting / logging ideas very welcome. Thanks!
[22:48] <darkxst> ronj, please run `apport-collect 1242423`
[22:48] <darkxst> and in the future file bugs using `ubuntu-bug <package>`