[08:22] Good morning peeps :) [08:23] Morning [08:23] aloha [08:24] morning [08:31] Morning all [08:31] heyo [08:34] Good morning all; happy Apple Day! :-D [08:36] apple as in the fruit, or as in the tech company? [08:37] or the record company [08:38] when did the typical RAM usage go from ~2GB to 6GB? [08:39] i used to happily run all my apps on 4gb machine [08:39] i suppose when gmail and $other mail take 500MB you are screwed [08:39] JamesTait always knows what day it is :) [08:39] I had a banana [08:39] i thought JamesTait was a bot for about a yar [08:40] because he never spoke other than the happy$day [08:40] None of the above. ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Day [08:40] mungbean_, are you sure I'm not now? [08:40] mostly [08:41] Dave2, I had a banana in my porridge this morning. === schwuk_away is now known as schwuk [08:41] anyone tried banana baby porridge? [08:41] its lovely [08:46] talking of Apples... [08:47] * TheOpenSourcerer delivered 85Kg of the fruits to http://thegardencidercompany.co.uk/The_Garden_Cider_Company/Maintenance.html to help with their collection of 20tonnes per week! to make Cider [08:47] this is a good cause and you should be applauded for it [08:47] Agreed. [08:47] We get 1/2 of what they make :-) [08:48] \o/ [08:48] that's a lot of cider [08:48] probably [08:48] ~ 20litres [08:48] good lord [08:49] thta's a spectacular amount of cider [08:49] a year's worth, maybe? [08:49] Huh? [08:49] 20l? A year? [08:49] no, I'm wrong [08:49] probably a good few months though [08:49] uh? [08:49] how much do you drink?!?! [08:50] 40 pints a day. ;) [08:50] My GP recommends 21 units a day ;-) [08:50] And you can roll-over [08:50] :-D === schwuk is now known as schwuk_away [08:51] I... don't believe you [08:52] In case anyone is interested, I haz OggCamp photos: http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=oggcamp13 [08:52] 21 units in a day makes you roll over? [08:53] it would certainly make me fall to the floor === schwuk_away is now known as schwuk [09:00] are there recordings of talks @ oggcamp? [09:03] some, yes [09:03] main stage was recorded, well some of them [09:06] SuperMatt: What don't you believe? [09:06] that your doctor suggests 21 unites a day [09:06] Hm. Ubuntu Gnome doesn't appear to have a one-package-that-everything-depends-upon thingy with which to remove it all... [09:06] what was freaky clown's bank talk about? [09:06] He's in the pub, my local, *every* day. So why not? [09:06] mungbean_: dunno, i didnt go to it [09:06] this is a decidedly more buggy Saucy than my laptop, but that's probaly because I broke it [09:09] good morning everyone. [09:09] Good Morning! [09:11] good morning BigRedS [09:12] Morning! How's things? [09:13] aww, spotify broke again [09:14] hmm, maybe it didn't! [09:14] upgraded to 13.10 at the weekend [09:14] now the shading effects in flightgear work! [09:17] BigRedS: somewhat concerned about my kate, she has gone into a low eb in her bipolar. and you? [09:18] mungbean_, I could tell you, but I'd have to kill you. :-P [09:23] What packages are included in build-essentials? [09:23] mungbean_, there were lots of anecdotes of security failures he'd experienced in his work as an ethical hacker, and a demo of someone's NFC travel card being read by a mobile phone. [09:23] or how can I find out? [09:24] andrewebdev, apt-cache show build-essential [09:24] awesome! thx [09:24] andrewebdev, apt-cache show build-essential | grep ^Depends: [09:25] andrewebdev, the second one will save you having to comb though the full output. :) [09:25] yup noticed and used that one first [09:28] thx that helps [09:29] My main bug in Saucy so far is keyboard locale [09:29] on a mac? [09:29] PC [09:29] Keep flipping to yankland, not sure what the conditions are yet [09:30] Switching out to a terminal and back to X via ctrl-alt-F[17] cures it [09:30] But it can be a real PITA because I habitually use symbols in passwords [09:31] As far as everything else goes, I've virtually noticed no change except some nice updates to features in apps like Pasaffe [09:32] Shutdowns seem a bit snappier [09:32] yeah, i had it flip kb layouts the other day [09:38] Argh. I've completely broken my PC :/ [09:39] assuming 13.10 is more compatible with EFI than is/was 13.04, is there some voodoo I can do do update the live USB stick I'm running so it'll try installing that? [09:39] ls [09:41] BigRedS: Sorry, don't understand your question [09:41] I've got a live USB running 13.04 which has just failed to install [09:41] ok [09:42] since I've nothing else knocking around I'm wondering if I can boot off that and then make it a 13.10 USB [09:42] oh and you've not got another USB disk? [09:42] no [09:42] hmm [09:43] Argh. I'm getting really bored of the instaler's insistence upon my having a swap partition :/ [09:44] BigRedS: How much RAM do you have? [09:44] 16G [09:44] :o [09:44] BigRedS: Hang, on - let me try something [09:46] BigRedS: How big is your USB stick? [09:46] er, same [09:46] I was just pondering partitioning it [09:46] The actual problem I'm trying to solve is Grub refusing to install, thinking about it. 13.04 is fine, really, 13.10 is just a guess at something more likely to work [09:46] BigRedS: The problem is since it's the only thing you're running off you have precisely one chance [09:47] BigRedS: Oh right, so what's the grub problem you're seeing [09:47] I got to the end of the installation and got an error message whose precise wording I can't recall [09:47] Grub couldn't write to /boot though [09:48] BigRedS: There should be a log in /var/log/installer [09:48] but the installer couldn't cope with re-running with cryptswap so I've already blown away the partitions again [09:48] ok, so I'd do a fresh clean install, and if grub fails then figure out why - how are you partitioning it? [09:48] all in one partition, it's a PC [09:49] BigRedS: How big a disk? Are you EFI booting? And you said cryptswap so what's the real answer to how are you partitioning? [09:49] yeah, EFI [09:49] I took the defaults with an encrypted home earlier [09:50] since it looks like I'll be doing this more than once I'm going for as simple as possible now [09:50] so there's still the cryptswap knocking around [09:50] I'll play for a bit and if it doesn't work I'll reboot into something cleaner :) I've a couple of thoughts [09:50] I think EFI (if booting in EFI mode) needs a special partition [09:50] vfat bios partition [09:50] which the installer can do all by itself? [09:50] yeah, that rings a bell [09:51] oh, but if I'm doing it manually I wont do that [09:51] argh. I'll just reboot. [09:51] yeh so lets just take a standard default install and let it set it up [09:55] yeah, I hoped re-running it would Just Work :) [09:56] JamesTait: you can read a travel card with a mobile,i've done it before, but its not particularly interesting [09:56] you could wrap it in tin foil wallet i suppose [09:57] mungbean_, he acctually asked for a contactless credit/debit card, but Mark only had his contactless travel card in his wallet, and freakyclown thought it would be interesting to see what it came up with. [09:58] I used my contactless credit card the other day, was a bit weird [09:59] Morning all [09:59] davmor2, o/ [10:03] i think it stores a few journeys [10:03] i always try to see what the inspectors can see on their handheld devices [10:04] penguin42: there's not a lot in these installers: http://avi.co/brokeninstaller.txt [10:04] The error message is "The 'grub-efi' package failed to install into /target/. Without the GRUB boot loader, the installed system will not boot" [10:04] BigRedS: ok, so it is grub-efi - is this the default parttioning that you're doing? [10:05] yeah [10:05] BigRedS: OK, and is that the /var/log/installer on your ramfs or on the /target hard drive? [10:05] ah, ramfs [10:06] there doesn't appear to be one in /target/var/log [10:06] oh [10:06] BigRedS: What other partitions has it made, and how has it mounted them? [10:07] partitions: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6275823/ [10:07] /proc/mounts: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6275826/ [10:08] * penguin42 looks [10:09] urk. I clicked OK on that error and now /target's not mounted [10:09] and if I mount it and then ls I see an empty dir :/ [10:10] BigRedS: Well those mounts look ok, it's mounted the boot part in /target/efi/boot [10:10] BigRedS: If you mount your sda2? [10:10] d'oh [10:10] no, sda1 [10:11] hah, yeh, sda2's fine [10:12] BigRedS: I guess I'd try mounting the sda1 in the right place as well, chroot into the /target, mount /proc and /sys and then see what happens if you do an update-grub ? [10:12] oh, just found this in syslog: The following packages have unmet dependencies. \ grub-efi : Depends: grub-efi-amd64 (= 2.00-14ubuntu1)\ : Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. [10:13] ?! [10:13] is there something earlier - I mean the only way that should happen is if an earlier package failed to install for some reason, e.g. a duff image or the like? [10:14] doesn't look it; I'll try the chroot and see if I can get to a working system, then have a look at the logs in luxury :) [10:15] BigRedS: Yeh, so in the chroot try and apt-get your grub-efi-amd64 [10:17] BigRedS: Did you tick the 'download updates during install' ? [10:17] yeah [10:17] I suggest not doing [10:18] BigRedS: Either one of the updates is broken or it's having a problem downloading one for some reason [10:18] [10:21] Hm. Can install the packages in teh chroot, but it still complains it cannot write to /boot/grub [10:23] The Hudl I ordered for Hayley as a wedding present has arrived! Do I wrap it as is and give it to her on the day after, or do I crack it open and charge it up before doing so? [10:24] yes [10:26] no [10:26] Twelvety! [10:27] (I wouldnt) [10:28] nope [10:29] breaking the seal is the most fun [10:29] * bigcalm wraps it as is [10:29] it goes downhill from there [10:29] I just want my own tablet back :P [10:30] my touchpad has seen better days [10:30] mainly from pulling it apart twice, the case is a bit mangled [10:30] and the screen sits a bit proud and bouncy [10:32] do foreign (US) programmes need the product placement symbol as well as UK progs? you would think so [10:32] BigRedS: Well, try writing to /boot/grub - try just putting a dummy file in [10:34] somebody was dialling a number on touch tone that sounded like quantum leap. now i have QL stuck in my head [10:34] doo doo do doo, do do do do doo [10:35] penguin42: I got bored and just rebooted in BIOS mode... [10:44] BigRedS: Yes, what model/make/victim of machine? [10:44] Intel Nuc [10:44] huh about as much of a reference machine as you're going to find [10:44] haha, yeah [10:45] I recall some acrobatics on initial install [10:45] And we've had another couple with weirdly inconsistent experiences [10:50] Do you think Scott Bakula has the theme from Quantum Leap as his ringtone? [10:52] was he is some star trek stuff too [10:52] yeh ST Enterprise [10:52] AKA that soap opera my wife watches [11:03] i liked Star Trek Enterprise [11:04] popey: Nod, especially the earlier episodes - everything was made to feel nicely cobbled together and still quite touchy [11:08] i like the enterprise ep with arik soong, noonien soong's great-grandfather. [11:17] * penguin42 hasn't seen that [11:17] it was three ep's infact, [11:17] same story arc. [11:18] it's a while since I've seen Enterprise [11:18] i didnt like the series a whole. only a few ep's took my fancy. [11:19] I didn't like the later stuff with the temporal war [11:19] gave up on it at that point [11:19] agreed. [11:30] my nephew is about to get his black belt at judo. any gift ideas? [11:31] I don't know, but if you get it wrong it could be painful [11:32] a 50p judo coin :P [11:33] I think I might have too many ppas installed on this box 20 minutes for an apt-get update on a 60Mb connection is a long time right :D [11:35] the owncloud opensuse one takes forever [11:40] annoyed about google moving the news and calendar to the little grid thing [11:41] used to be 1 click to news [11:45] mungbean_: Yeh and it's inconsistent, there is the whole list of things vertically down the side of my g+ stuff, but some things are there and some things are in the grid, I guess the old scheme didn't work for touch devices, so the grid kind of makes sense, but I don't see the point of having two schemes like at the moment [11:46] Google stuff does generally seem to be getting worse in terms of UI/UX [11:47] * BigRedS is finally up on a working Saucy machine, with the right desktop wallpaper! :) [11:47] (the wallpaper's the only reason I tried the upgrade this morning, and then the only reason I tried to remove Gnome 3) [11:49] phablet-flash don't work. unable to download file === alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch [11:50] That at least sounds like a simple problem :) Does the error message elaborate at all? [11:50] 404 [11:51] Errno 2 - to be precise, but really it's 404. :D [11:52] haha, I'd guess error 2 is the app's one for a http failure [11:52] does it say the URL? I've never really used phablet-flash since I don't have any supported devices :) [11:52] But file seams to exist :D [11:52] downloading it manually. [11:53] oh, you can download it elsewhere? [11:53] #ubuntu-touch is the best place for this conversation [11:53] " is currently unsubscribed from Dell email marketing. Your unsubscribe request was received on 31/08/2012.You may continue to receive emails pertaining to your Dell account." [11:53] well, it gives url and location where it should download. :D [11:53] so i unsubscribed months ago but still receive dell spam? [11:54] BigRedS, seams to be working. :) [11:54] mungbean_: yeah, you'll still receive mail that they can pass off as being about genuine orders [11:54] Aivaras: yeah, then I'd check out #ubuntu-touch and see if there's some known confusion in the client [11:55] At least it's (probably) not a server-side issue, so it's probably fixable in teh client [12:07] torvalds is posting photos from loch lomond [12:07] oh, there's a linux conf up in Scotland isn't there? [12:07] rude of him not to go bit further south to the oggcamp [12:07] :D [12:07] haha [12:14] i just looked through a whole 128 photos of oggcamp portraits and realised they are rfom 2012 [12:14] i blame MartijnVdS for +1 it [12:14] :D [12:15] hahaha [12:16] http://www.googlestore.com/Google+Redesign/Fun/Android+Ice+Cube+Trays.axd [12:16] you could put resin or plaster in these and paint little android figures [12:18] that's a wintereenmass present for my token iOS fan sorted === alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g [13:43] how can i find when my MOT expires? [13:43] look at your certificate? [13:44] yeah, seems to boil down to that [13:44] i had a baby this year, my house is a mess [13:45] oh, it's probably been eaten then - ask the place you got it done? [13:45] :( [13:45] You’ll need the vehicle registration mark and either: [13:45] the MOT test number (you can get this from the VT20 test certificate or the VT30 refusal certificate) [13:45] the document reference number from the V5C registration certificate (logbook) if you don’t have the MOT test number [13:45] great [13:45] looks like i'm digging tonight [13:46] needle in a cornfield [13:48] your needles are in cornfields? Ours are in haystacks [13:49] mungbean_: First thing I do when it passes is add to my google calendar to alert for next year ( Pro tip! ) :) [13:49] Missed 2 for 2 years so never going to happen again [13:49] i have an entry for 31 oct [13:49] but unsure if thats an old entry or not [13:52] hah, defo worth adding reg and document details :) [13:53] lol [13:53] i hate this time of year [13:53] insurance and MOT and serviec [13:53] Mines the first quarter, nad yeah sucks [13:55] money for old rope [14:07] £149 MOT+service [14:09] if you know where you last MOTed it they can normally tell you when it's next due [14:10] yeah i found a letter they sent me, no date on it, but the 31 oct seems to tally up with it [14:12] got quoted £250 to fix 3 tiles on my roof [14:12] not happy [14:12] get another quote? [14:12] i will, trying to find another company is hard [14:12] no local roofers? [14:13] none that want to give business [14:13] similar situation to getting a new back fence [14:13] nobody wants to give you business [14:13] we tend to use a local builder for small stuff - he's about 65+ [14:13] yeah i need someone lik that [14:14] checkatrade is lame for north london [14:15] don't you just speed to other people or watch for people up ladders? [14:15] mungbean_: not fancy doing the tiles yourself ? Changed a few in the past very simple [14:16] its a very old roof [14:16] i fear a frank spencer moment [14:16] BETTYYYY [14:20] czajkowski: Oi 38 pictures of a dog 38 that's excessive even for you ;) [14:20] davmor2: 18 new ones [14:20] czajkowski: Stop just stop honest ;) [14:21] davmor2: but he's so cute! [14:21] mungbean_: I might know somebody who's up for doing that; my dad does electrical contracting around North London and much as he's a bit vertigous he probably knows a tiler [14:21] or roofer. Tilers work in bathrooms don't they? [14:21] No he is a pug :P [14:21] and for context [14:21] https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/102921374554385564572/albums/5936916689358037521 [14:22] BigRedS: found 1 guy on checkatrade. if no response or ££££ then i'll ping u :D [14:22] i went up the weymouth glass tower thing last week. i get a bit funny with heights in the last few years [14:23] mungbean_: ahh, cool [14:23] wasn't too bad actually [14:23] czajkowski: Do you have a zsh as well? [14:24] nope tcsh :) [14:24] there's a glass tower in weymouth? [14:24] http://www.sealifeweymouth.com/explore/weymouth-tower.aspx [14:24] its a big glass doughnut on a pole [14:25] czajkowski: and you mock me for mutt? [14:25] Oh right, that wasn't there last time I was in weymouth [14:26] mungbean_: Seems to be missing a zip line or ... [14:26] hang on, is that doughnut pulled up and down the pole? [14:26] that's mad [14:26] i didn't consider how its done. [14:26] was very smooth [14:27] but, yeah, it goes up and down? you don't just go up a lift inthe middle or something? [14:27] no you climb into the glass dougnut [14:27] and it goes to teh top and rotates [14:28] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo0H9NJsxXI [14:28] turn the sound off, some whingeing taff banging on [14:29] Ah, I've no audio anyway [14:30] davmor2: removed the duplicate photos :) [14:30] czajkowski: hehe [14:30] Oh right, so it's just a circular bench? That's much more weymouthy than it initially looked :) [14:31] lol [14:31] the ticket is "free" if you have been to the sealife centre [14:31] which we got with tesco vouchers [14:31] so a great deal [14:32] I should probably start using mutt [14:33] alpine > mutt, isn't it? === alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch [14:34] is it better? === alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g|tea [14:34] my email clients are hopelessly graphical [14:35] mutt's pretty good simple/fast - I tend not to use the standard config [14:38] I just switched back to a graphical client from mutt [14:38] and, actually, it's not taken down my system through using all of its resources [14:39] it can't do IMAP properly but neither can imapsync or mutt or, seemingly, anything other than Mulberry [14:39] you can load a few thousand message folders quickly on Mutt, but yeh it's not pretty - finding a nice config makes a big difference as well [14:39] but, yeah, I spent a good while getting Mutt working and then realised that the whole reason I did that was because I couldn't work out how to make Thunderbird not run away with four of my CPUs and half my ram [14:40] so I spent about five minutes on that and now I also have calendars and tasks in it and I actually see starred emails [14:40] turn off download of messages [14:40] and offline sync [14:40] then tb is awesome [14:40] yeah, basicallyt [14:40] * penguin42 did take his system out the other day by accidentally trying to load a 400MB procmail.log file into mutt - it tried to parse the 2.5M mail headers [14:40] i have 5GB of mail and a million messages [14:40] well, it still thinks I want all the headers stored and indexed, and that a 'quick search' means every folder on every account, but it's getting closer to not being stupid === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [14:40] i disable global search [14:41] hence no indexing [14:41] why are all the stupid ideas set to on by default? [14:41] you can still quickly search a folder [14:41] developers have SSD and i7? [14:41] so do I! [14:41] they want to show off features? [14:42] thunderbird at 200% CPU isn't a feature :) [14:42] mine isn't even registereing on the top scale [14:42] that was the nice thing about offlineimap - I could nice and ionice it in the cronjob so I never noticed it running [14:42] oh that's intentional, to make sure it's fitting with the rest of the mozilla family [14:42] yeah, that's 'cause you turned off the stupid, probably [14:42] i did [14:42] shauno: integreted memtest :) [14:43] yeah, I think stupid is a thing that should need *enabling*; it should be opt-in [14:43] depends [14:43] no it doesn't. If it's stupid it should be off by default. [14:43] define stupid [14:43] Things that annoy me [14:43] yeah [14:43] :) [14:44] BigRedS: the problem is things that annoy you may not annoy someone else [14:44] o365 in a browser > 500MB [14:44] diddledan: most of them annoy at least one other person [14:44] imap in TB = 200MB [14:44] so you end up turning everything off because someone somewhere might not like it. so then you have zero functionality [14:44] I am being a bit facetious; I'm not genuinely demanding that everything be bent to my will [14:44] i know :P [14:44] i would agree but if i was a dev i'd want the bits on display [14:45] but the point of IMAP is that you don't download all the mail, for example [14:45] if I wanted that I'd use POP3 [14:45] imap has a compress function but i don't think o365 supports it [14:45] btw i gave up reddit a few weeks ago and still holding firm [14:45] I still ended up downloading headers from 2001 this morning when I configured Tbird. However much you compress it, that's not ideal [14:46] i was a bit addicted [14:46] yeah, I've stopped pining it in firefox and watched my productivity skyrocket [14:47] it was whenever there was a lull in conversation or i was on the toilet etc [14:47] or waiting 60 seconds for kettle to boil [14:48] but if you stop commenting on stuff then you stop going back [14:48] i deleted a load of old comments [14:48] yeah, I tend to go a few days without it and then get into a bunch of conversations in the space of about a lunch break and that's it for the rest of the week [14:48] the problem is that that's normally Monday's lunch break... [14:49] i don't think i'ev missed anything [14:49] i scan g+ and news very briefly [14:49] i heard 8.1 and 13.10 were out;) [14:49] something about a US shutdown but i didn't care [14:50] I got into *another* argument with an Atheist last week; those are always time sinks... [14:50] what abot? [14:50] usual stuff [14:51] but, yeah, most of my activity is in militaryporn, mapporn and sysadmin so I don't miss much by not being there [14:51] yeah, God [14:51] the shutdown was a bit sad-face. 8 years of uptime is a sad thing to waste [14:51] haha === alan_g|tea is now known as alan_g [14:51] i let God deal with atheists instead of joining in. most who want to discuss it are trolls ;) [14:51] I only have a reddit account to dispose of /r/atheism; while I nominally am one, FFS those muppets should give it a rest [14:52] i dispose(d) of nearly every default sub [14:52] i've said stuff in ubuntu before and BigRedS has replied [14:52] and i lol silently [14:53] I'm in /r/Ubuntu? [14:53] because i have a different username [14:53] maybe linux relted sub then [14:53] mgdm, agreed [14:53]