[08:22] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:23] <AndroCloud80> Morning
[08:23] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:24] <SuperMatt> morning
[08:31] <diplo> Morning all
[08:31] <SuperMatt> heyo
[08:34] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Apple Day! :-D
[08:36] <SuperMatt> apple as in the fruit, or as in the tech company?
[08:37] <mungbean_> or the record company
[08:38] <mungbean_> when did the typical RAM usage go from ~2GB to 6GB?
[08:39] <mungbean_> i used to happily run all my apps on 4gb machine
[08:39] <mungbean_> i suppose when gmail and $other mail take 500MB you are screwed
[08:39] <ali1234> JamesTait always knows what day it is :)
[08:39] <Dave2> I had a banana
[08:39] <mungbean_> i thought JamesTait was a bot for about a yar
[08:40] <mungbean_> because he never spoke other than the happy$day
[08:40] <JamesTait> None of the above. ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Day
[08:40] <JamesTait> mungbean_, are you sure I'm not now?
[08:40] <mungbean_> mostly
[08:41] <JamesTait> Dave2, I had a banana in my porridge this morning.
[08:41] <mungbean_> anyone tried  banana baby porridge?
[08:41] <mungbean_> its lovely
[08:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> talking of Apples...
[08:47]  * TheOpenSourcerer delivered 85Kg of the fruits to http://thegardencidercompany.co.uk/The_Garden_Cider_Company/Maintenance.html to help with their collection of 20tonnes per week! to make Cider
[08:47] <SuperMatt> this is a good cause and you should be applauded for it
[08:47] <JamesTait> Agreed.
[08:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> We get 1/2 of what they make :-)
[08:48] <SuperMatt> \o/
[08:48] <SuperMatt> that's a lot of cider
[08:48] <SuperMatt> probably
[08:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> ~ 20litres
[08:48] <SuperMatt> good lord
[08:49] <SuperMatt> thta's a spectacular amount of cider
[08:49] <SuperMatt> a year's worth, maybe?
[08:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> Huh?
[08:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> 20l? A year?
[08:49] <SuperMatt> no, I'm wrong
[08:49] <SuperMatt> probably a good few months though
[08:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> uh?
[08:49] <SuperMatt> how much do you drink?!?!
[08:50] <JamesTait> 40 pints a day. ;)
[08:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> My GP recommends 21 units a day ;-)
[08:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> And you can roll-over
[08:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
[08:51] <SuperMatt> I... don't believe you
[08:52] <JamesTait> In case anyone is interested, I haz OggCamp photos: http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=oggcamp13
[08:52] <BigRedS> 21 units in a day makes you roll over?
[08:53] <SuperMatt> it would certainly make me fall to the floor
[09:00] <mungbean_> are there recordings of talks @ oggcamp?
[09:03] <popey> some, yes
[09:03] <popey> main stage was recorded, well some of them
[09:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> SuperMatt: What don't you believe?
[09:06] <SuperMatt> that your doctor suggests 21 unites a day
[09:06] <BigRedS> Hm. Ubuntu Gnome doesn't appear to have a one-package-that-everything-depends-upon thingy with which to remove it all...
[09:06] <mungbean_> what was freaky clown's bank talk about?
[09:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> He's in the pub, my local, *every* day. So why not?
[09:06] <popey> mungbean_: dunno, i didnt go to it
[09:06] <BigRedS> this is a decidedly more buggy Saucy than my laptop, but that's probaly because I broke it
[09:09] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:09] <BigRedS> Good Morning!
[09:11] <brobostigon> good morning BigRedS
[09:12] <BigRedS> Morning! How's things?
[09:13] <Laney> aww, spotify broke again
[09:14] <Laney> hmm, maybe it didn't!
[09:14] <bashrc> upgraded to 13.10 at the weekend
[09:14] <bashrc> now the shading effects in flightgear work!
[09:17] <brobostigon> BigRedS: somewhat concerned about my kate, she has gone into a low eb in her bipolar. and you?
[09:18] <JamesTait> mungbean_, I could tell you, but I'd have to kill you. :-P
[09:23] <andrewebdev> What packages are included in build-essentials?
[09:23] <JamesTait> mungbean_, there were lots of anecdotes of security failures he'd experienced in his work as an ethical hacker, and a demo of someone's NFC travel card being read by a mobile phone.
[09:23] <andrewebdev> or how can I find out?
[09:24] <JamesTait> andrewebdev, apt-cache show build-essential
[09:24] <andrewebdev> awesome! thx
[09:24] <JamesTait> andrewebdev, apt-cache show build-essential | grep ^Depends:
[09:25] <JamesTait> andrewebdev, the second one will save you having to comb though the full output. :)
[09:25] <andrewebdev> yup noticed and used that one first
[09:28] <andrewebdev> thx that helps
[09:29] <awilkins> My main bug in Saucy so far is keyboard locale
[09:29] <popey> on a mac?
[09:29] <awilkins> PC
[09:29] <awilkins> Keep flipping to yankland, not sure what the conditions are yet
[09:30] <awilkins> Switching out to a terminal and back to X via ctrl-alt-F[17] cures it
[09:30] <awilkins> But it can be a real PITA because I habitually use symbols in passwords
[09:31] <awilkins> As far as everything else goes, I've virtually noticed no change except some nice updates to features in apps like Pasaffe
[09:32] <awilkins> Shutdowns seem a bit snappier
[09:32] <popey> yeah, i had it flip kb layouts the other day
[09:38] <BigRedS> Argh. I've completely broken my PC :/
[09:39] <BigRedS> assuming 13.10 is more compatible with EFI than is/was 13.04, is there some voodoo I can do do update the live USB stick I'm running so it'll try installing that?
[09:39] <BigRedS> ls
[09:41] <penguin42> BigRedS: Sorry, don't understand your question
[09:41] <BigRedS> I've got a live USB running 13.04 which has just failed to install
[09:41] <penguin42> ok
[09:42] <BigRedS> since I've nothing else knocking around I'm wondering if I can boot off that and then make it a 13.10 USB
[09:42] <penguin42> oh and you've not got another USB disk?
[09:42] <BigRedS> no
[09:42] <penguin42> hmm
[09:43] <BigRedS> Argh. I'm getting really bored of the instaler's insistence upon my having a swap partition :/
[09:44] <penguin42> BigRedS: How much RAM do you have?
[09:44] <BigRedS> 16G
[09:44] <Svetlana> :o
[09:44] <penguin42> BigRedS: Hang, on - let me try something
[09:46] <penguin42> BigRedS: How big is your USB stick?
[09:46] <BigRedS> er, same
[09:46] <BigRedS> I was just pondering partitioning it
[09:46] <BigRedS> The actual problem I'm trying to solve is Grub refusing to install, thinking about it. 13.04 is fine, really, 13.10 is just a guess at something more likely to work
[09:46] <penguin42> BigRedS: The problem is since it's the only thing you're running off you have precisely one chance
[09:47] <penguin42> BigRedS: Oh right, so what's the grub problem you're seeing
[09:47] <BigRedS> I got to the end of the installation and got an error message whose precise wording I can't recall
[09:47] <BigRedS> Grub couldn't write to /boot though
[09:48] <penguin42> BigRedS: There should be a log in /var/log/installer
[09:48] <BigRedS> but the installer couldn't cope with re-running with cryptswap so I've already blown away the partitions again
[09:48] <penguin42> ok, so I'd do a fresh clean install, and if grub fails then figure out why - how are you partitioning it?
[09:48] <BigRedS> all in one partition, it's a PC
[09:49] <penguin42> BigRedS: How big a disk? Are you EFI booting? And you said cryptswap so what's the real answer to how are you partitioning?
[09:49] <BigRedS> yeah, EFI
[09:49] <BigRedS> I took the defaults with an encrypted home earlier
[09:50] <BigRedS> since it looks like I'll be doing this more than once I'm going for as simple as possible now
[09:50] <BigRedS> so there's still the cryptswap knocking around
[09:50] <BigRedS> I'll play for a bit and if it doesn't work I'll reboot into something cleaner :) I've a couple of thoughts
[09:50] <penguin42> I think EFI (if booting in EFI mode) needs a special partition
[09:50] <penguin42> vfat bios partition
[09:50] <BigRedS> which the installer can do all by itself?
[09:50] <BigRedS> yeah, that rings a bell
[09:51] <BigRedS> oh, but if I'm doing it manually I wont do that
[09:51] <BigRedS> argh. I'll just reboot.
[09:51] <penguin42> yeh so lets just take a standard default install and let it set it up
[09:55] <BigRedS> yeah, I hoped re-running it would Just Work :)
[09:56] <mungbean_> JamesTait: you can read a travel card with a mobile,i've done it before,  but its not particularly interesting
[09:56] <mungbean_> you could wrap it in tin foil wallet i suppose
[09:57] <JamesTait> mungbean_, he acctually asked for a contactless credit/debit card, but Mark only had his contactless travel card in his wallet, and freakyclown thought it would be interesting to see what it came up with.
[09:58] <BigRedS> I used my contactless credit card the other day, was a bit weird
[09:59] <davmor2> Morning all
[09:59] <JamesTait> davmor2, o/
[10:03] <mungbean_> i think it stores a few journeys
[10:03] <mungbean_> i always try to see what the inspectors can see on their handheld devices
[10:04] <BigRedS> penguin42: there's not a lot in these installers: http://avi.co/brokeninstaller.txt
[10:04] <BigRedS> The error message is "The 'grub-efi' package failed to install into /target/. Without the GRUB boot loader, the installed system will not boot"
[10:04] <penguin42> BigRedS: ok, so it is grub-efi - is this the default parttioning that you're doing?
[10:05] <BigRedS> yeah
[10:05] <penguin42> BigRedS: OK, and is that the /var/log/installer on your ramfs or on the /target hard drive?
[10:05] <BigRedS> ah, ramfs
[10:06] <BigRedS> there doesn't appear to be one in /target/var/log
[10:06] <penguin42> oh
[10:06] <penguin42> BigRedS: What other partitions has it made, and how has it mounted them?
[10:07] <BigRedS> partitions: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6275823/
[10:07] <BigRedS> /proc/mounts: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6275826/
[10:08]  * penguin42 looks
[10:09] <BigRedS> urk. I clicked OK on that error and now /target's not mounted
[10:09] <BigRedS> and if I mount it and then ls I see an empty dir :/
[10:10] <penguin42> BigRedS: Well those mounts look ok, it's mounted the boot part in /target/efi/boot
[10:10] <penguin42> BigRedS: If you mount your sda2?
[10:10] <BigRedS> d'oh
[10:10] <BigRedS> no, sda1
[10:11] <BigRedS> hah, yeh, sda2's fine
[10:12] <penguin42> BigRedS: I guess I'd try mounting the sda1 in the right place as well, chroot into the /target, mount /proc and /sys and then see what happens if you do an update-grub ?
[10:12] <BigRedS> oh, just found this in syslog: The following packages have unmet dependencies. \ grub-efi : Depends: grub-efi-amd64 (= 2.00-14ubuntu1)\ : Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
[10:13] <penguin42> ?!
[10:13] <penguin42> is there something earlier - I mean the only way that should happen is if an earlier package failed to install for some reason, e.g. a duff image or the like?
[10:14] <BigRedS> doesn't look it; I'll try the chroot and see if I can get to a working system, then have a look at the logs in luxury :)
[10:15] <penguin42> BigRedS: Yeh, so in the chroot try and apt-get your grub-efi-amd64
[10:17] <penguin42> BigRedS: Did you tick the 'download updates during install' ?
[10:17] <BigRedS> yeah
[10:17] <penguin42> I suggest not doing
[10:18] <penguin42> BigRedS: Either one of the updates is broken or it's having a problem downloading one for some reason

[10:21] <BigRedS> Hm. Can install the packages in teh chroot, but it still complains it cannot write to /boot/grub
[10:23] <bigcalm> The Hudl I ordered for Hayley as a wedding present has arrived! Do I wrap it as is and give it to her on the day after, or do I crack it open and charge it up before doing so?
[10:24] <popey> yes
[10:26] <Laney> no
[10:26] <popey> Twelvety!
[10:27] <popey> (I wouldnt)
[10:28] <mungbean_> nope
[10:29] <mungbean_> breaking the seal is the most fun
[10:29]  * bigcalm wraps it as is
[10:29] <mungbean_> it goes downhill from there
[10:29] <bigcalm> I just want my own tablet back :P
[10:30] <mungbean_> my touchpad has seen better days
[10:30] <mungbean_> mainly from pulling it apart twice, the case is a bit mangled
[10:30] <mungbean_> and the screen sits a bit proud and bouncy
[10:32] <mungbean_> do foreign (US) programmes need the product placement symbol as well as UK progs? you would think so
[10:32] <penguin42> BigRedS: Well, try writing to /boot/grub - try just putting a dummy file in
[10:34] <mungbean_> somebody was dialling a number on touch tone that sounded like quantum leap. now i have QL stuck in my head
[10:34] <mungbean_> doo doo do doo, do do do do doo
[10:35] <BigRedS> penguin42: I got bored and just rebooted in BIOS mode...
[10:44] <penguin42> BigRedS: Yes, what model/make/victim of machine?
[10:44] <BigRedS> Intel Nuc
[10:44] <penguin42> huh about as much of a reference machine as you're going to find
[10:44] <BigRedS> haha, yeah
[10:45] <BigRedS> I recall some acrobatics on initial install
[10:45] <BigRedS> And we've had another couple with weirdly inconsistent experiences
[10:50] <awilkins> Do you think Scott Bakula has the theme from Quantum Leap as his ringtone?
[10:52] <mungbean_> was he is some star trek stuff too
[10:52] <penguin42> yeh ST Enterprise
[10:52] <mungbean_> AKA that soap opera my wife watches
[11:03] <popey> i liked Star Trek Enterprise
[11:04] <penguin42> popey: Nod, especially the earlier episodes - everything was made to feel nicely cobbled together and still quite touchy
[11:08] <brobostigon> i like the enterprise ep with arik soong, noonien soong's great-grandfather.
[11:17]  * penguin42 hasn't seen that
[11:17] <brobostigon> it was three ep's infact,
[11:17] <brobostigon> same story arc.
[11:18] <penguin42> it's a while since I've seen Enterprise
[11:18] <brobostigon> i didnt like the series a whole. only a few ep's took my fancy.
[11:19] <penguin42> I didn't like the later stuff with the temporal war
[11:19] <penguin42> gave up on it at that point
[11:19] <brobostigon> agreed.
[11:30] <mungbean_> my nephew is about to get his black belt at judo. any gift ideas?
[11:31] <penguin42> I don't know, but if you get it wrong it could be painful
[11:32] <mungbean_> a 50p judo coin :P
[11:33] <davmor2> I think I might have too many ppas installed on this box 20 minutes for an apt-get update on a 60Mb connection is a long time right :D
[11:35] <mungbean_> the owncloud opensuse one takes forever
[11:40] <mungbean_> annoyed about google moving the news and calendar to the little grid thing
[11:41] <mungbean_> used to be 1 click to news
[11:45] <penguin42> mungbean_: Yeh and it's inconsistent, there is the whole list of things vertically down the side of my g+ stuff, but some things are there and some things are in the grid, I guess the old scheme didn't work for touch devices, so the grid kind of makes sense, but I don't see the point of having two schemes like at the moment
[11:46] <BigRedS> Google stuff does generally seem to be getting worse in terms of UI/UX
[11:47]  * BigRedS is finally up on a working Saucy machine, with the right desktop wallpaper! :)
[11:47] <BigRedS> (the wallpaper's the only reason I tried the upgrade this morning, and then the only reason I tried to remove Gnome 3)
[11:49] <Aivaras> phablet-flash don't work. unable to download file
[11:50] <BigRedS> That at least sounds like a simple problem :) Does the error message elaborate at all?
[11:50] <Aivaras> 404
[11:51] <Aivaras> Errno 2 - to be precise, but really it's 404. :D
[11:52] <BigRedS> haha, I'd guess error 2 is the app's one for a http failure
[11:52] <BigRedS> does it say the URL? I've never really used phablet-flash since I don't have any supported devices :)
[11:52] <Aivaras> But file seams to exist :D
[11:52] <Aivaras> downloading it manually.
[11:53] <BigRedS> oh, you can download it elsewhere?
[11:53] <popey> #ubuntu-touch is the best place for this conversation
[11:53] <mungbean_> " is currently unsubscribed from Dell email marketing. Your unsubscribe request was received on 31/08/2012.You may continue to receive emails pertaining to your Dell account."
[11:53] <Aivaras> well, it gives url and location where it should download. :D
[11:53] <mungbean_> so i unsubscribed months ago but still receive dell spam?
[11:54] <Aivaras> BigRedS, seams to be working. :)
[11:54] <BigRedS> mungbean_: yeah, you'll still receive mail that they can pass off as being about genuine orders
[11:54] <BigRedS> Aivaras: yeah, then I'd check out #ubuntu-touch and see if there's some known confusion in the client
[11:55] <BigRedS> At least it's (probably) not a server-side issue, so it's probably fixable in teh client
[12:07] <mungbean_> torvalds is posting photos from loch lomond
[12:07] <BigRedS> oh, there's a linux conf up in Scotland isn't there?
[12:07] <mungbean_> rude of him not to go bit further south to the oggcamp
[12:07] <mungbean_> :D
[12:07] <BigRedS> haha
[12:14] <mungbean_> i just looked through a whole 128 photos of oggcamp portraits and realised they are rfom 2012
[12:14] <mungbean_> i blame MartijnVdS for +1 it
[12:14] <mungbean_> :D
[12:15] <BigRedS> hahaha
[12:16] <mungbean_> http://www.googlestore.com/Google+Redesign/Fun/Android+Ice+Cube+Trays.axd
[12:16] <mungbean_> you could put resin or plaster in these and paint little android figures
[12:18] <BigRedS> that's a wintereenmass present for my token iOS fan sorted
[13:43] <mungbean_> how can i find when my MOT expires?
[13:43] <penguin42> look at your certificate?
[13:44] <mungbean_> yeah, seems to boil down to that
[13:44] <mungbean_> i had a baby this year, my house is a mess
[13:45] <penguin42> oh, it's probably been eaten then - ask the place you got it done?
[13:45] <mungbean_> :(
[13:45] <mungbean_> You’ll need the vehicle registration mark and either:
[13:45] <mungbean_> the MOT test number (you can get this from the VT20 test certificate or the VT30 refusal certificate)
[13:45] <mungbean_> the document reference number from the V5C registration certificate (logbook) if you don’t have the MOT test number
[13:45] <mungbean_> great
[13:45] <mungbean_> looks like i'm digging tonight
[13:46] <mungbean_> needle in a cornfield
[13:48] <penguin42> your needles are in cornfields? Ours are in haystacks
[13:49] <diplo> mungbean_: First thing I do when it passes is add to my google calendar to alert for next year ( Pro  tip! ) :)
[13:49] <diplo> Missed 2 for 2 years so never going to happen again
[13:49] <mungbean_> i have an entry for 31 oct
[13:49] <mungbean_> but unsure if thats an old entry or not
[13:52] <diplo> hah, defo worth adding reg and document details :)
[13:53] <mungbean_> lol
[13:53] <mungbean_> i hate this time of year
[13:53] <mungbean_> insurance and MOT and serviec
[13:53] <diplo> Mines the first quarter, nad yeah sucks
[13:55] <mungbean_> money for old rope
[14:07] <mungbean_> £149 MOT+service
[14:09] <BigRedS> if you know where you last MOTed it they can normally tell you when it's next due
[14:10] <mungbean_> yeah i found a letter they sent me, no date on it, but the 31 oct seems to tally up with it
[14:12] <mungbean_> got quoted £250 to fix 3 tiles on my roof
[14:12] <mungbean_> not happy
[14:12] <penguin42> get another quote?
[14:12] <mungbean_> i will, trying to find another company is hard
[14:12] <penguin42> no local roofers?
[14:13] <mungbean_> none that want to give business
[14:13] <mungbean_> similar situation to getting a new back fence
[14:13] <mungbean_> nobody wants to give you business
[14:13] <penguin42> we tend to use a local builder for small stuff - he's about 65+
[14:13] <mungbean_> yeah i need someone lik that
[14:14] <mungbean_> checkatrade is lame for north london
[14:15] <penguin42> don't you just speed to other people or watch for people up ladders?
[14:15] <diplo> mungbean_: not fancy doing the tiles yourself ? Changed a few in the past very simple
[14:16] <mungbean_> its a very old roof
[14:16] <mungbean_> i fear a frank spencer moment
[14:16] <mungbean_> BETTYYYY
[14:20] <davmor2> czajkowski: Oi 38 pictures of a dog 38 that's excessive even for you ;)
[14:20] <czajkowski> davmor2: 18 new ones
[14:20] <davmor2> czajkowski: Stop just stop honest ;)
[14:21] <czajkowski> davmor2: but he's so cute!
[14:21] <BigRedS> mungbean_: I might know somebody who's up for doing that; my dad does electrical contracting around North London and much as he's a bit vertigous he probably knows a tiler
[14:21] <BigRedS> or roofer. Tilers work in bathrooms don't they?
[14:21] <davmor2> No he is a pug :P
[14:21] <czajkowski> and for context
[14:21] <czajkowski> https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/102921374554385564572/albums/5936916689358037521
[14:22] <mungbean_> BigRedS: found 1 guy on checkatrade. if no response or ££££ then i'll ping u :D
[14:22] <mungbean_> i went up the weymouth glass tower thing last week. i get a bit funny with heights in the last few years
[14:23] <BigRedS> mungbean_: ahh, cool
[14:23] <mungbean_> wasn't too bad actually
[14:23] <penguin42> czajkowski: Do you have a zsh as well?
[14:24] <czajkowski> nope tcsh :)
[14:24] <BigRedS> there's a glass tower in weymouth?
[14:24] <mungbean_> http://www.sealifeweymouth.com/explore/weymouth-tower.aspx
[14:24] <mungbean_> its a big glass doughnut on a pole
[14:25] <BigRedS> czajkowski: and you mock me for mutt?
[14:25] <BigRedS> Oh right, that wasn't there last time I was in weymouth
[14:26] <penguin42> mungbean_: Seems to be missing a zip line or ...
[14:26] <BigRedS> hang on, is that doughnut pulled up and down the pole?
[14:26] <BigRedS> that's mad
[14:26] <mungbean_> i didn't consider how its done.
[14:26] <mungbean_> was very smooth
[14:27] <BigRedS> but, yeah, it goes up and down? you don't just go up a lift inthe middle or something?
[14:27] <mungbean_> no you climb into the glass dougnut
[14:27] <mungbean_> and it goes to teh top and rotates
[14:28] <mungbean_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo0H9NJsxXI
[14:28] <mungbean_> turn the sound off, some whingeing taff banging on
[14:29] <BigRedS> Ah, I've no audio anyway
[14:30] <czajkowski> davmor2: removed the duplicate photos :)
[14:30] <davmor2> czajkowski: hehe
[14:30] <BigRedS> Oh right, so it's just a circular bench? That's much more weymouthy than it initially looked :)
[14:31] <mungbean_> lol
[14:31] <mungbean_> the ticket is "free" if you have been to the sealife centre
[14:31] <mungbean_> which we got with tesco vouchers
[14:31] <mungbean_> so a great deal
[14:32] <bashrc> I should probably start using mutt
[14:33] <mungbean_> alpine > mutt, isn't it?
[14:34] <bashrc> is it better?
[14:34] <bashrc> my email clients are hopelessly graphical
[14:35] <penguin42> mutt's pretty good simple/fast - I tend not to use the standard config
[14:38] <BigRedS> I just switched back to a graphical client from mutt
[14:38] <BigRedS> and, actually, it's not taken down my system through using all of its resources
[14:39] <BigRedS> it can't do IMAP properly but neither can imapsync or mutt or, seemingly, anything other than Mulberry
[14:39] <penguin42> you can load a few thousand message folders quickly on Mutt, but yeh it's not pretty - finding a nice config makes a big difference as well
[14:39] <BigRedS> but, yeah, I spent a good while getting Mutt working and then realised that the whole reason I did that was because I couldn't work out how to make Thunderbird not run away with four of my CPUs and half my ram
[14:40] <BigRedS> so I spent about five minutes on that and now I also have calendars and tasks in it and I actually see starred emails
[14:40] <mungbean_> turn off download of messages
[14:40] <mungbean_> and offline sync
[14:40] <mungbean_> then tb is awesome
[14:40] <BigRedS> yeah, basicallyt
[14:40]  * penguin42 did take his system out the other day by accidentally trying to load a 400MB procmail.log file into mutt - it tried to parse the 2.5M mail headers
[14:40] <mungbean_> i have 5GB of mail and a million messages
[14:40] <BigRedS> well, it still thinks I want all the headers stored and indexed, and that a 'quick search' means every folder on every account, but it's getting closer to not being stupid
[14:40] <mungbean_> i disable global search
[14:41] <mungbean_> hence no indexing
[14:41] <BigRedS> why are all the stupid ideas set to on by default?
[14:41] <mungbean_> you can still quickly search a folder
[14:41] <mungbean_> developers have SSD and i7?
[14:41] <BigRedS> so do I!
[14:41] <mungbean_> they want to show off features?
[14:42] <BigRedS> thunderbird at 200% CPU isn't a feature :)
[14:42] <mungbean_> mine isn't even registereing on the top scale
[14:42] <BigRedS> that was the nice thing about offlineimap - I could nice and ionice it in the cronjob so I never noticed it running
[14:42] <shauno> oh that's intentional, to make sure it's fitting with the rest of the mozilla family
[14:42] <BigRedS> yeah, that's 'cause you turned off the stupid, probably
[14:42] <mungbean_> i did
[14:42] <BigRedS> shauno: integreted memtest :)
[14:43] <BigRedS> yeah, I think stupid is a thing that should need *enabling*; it should be opt-in
[14:43] <mungbean_> depends
[14:43] <BigRedS> no it doesn't. If it's stupid it should be off by default.
[14:43] <mungbean_> define stupid
[14:43] <BigRedS> Things that annoy me
[14:43] <mungbean_> yeah
[14:43] <BigRedS> :)
[14:44] <diddledan> BigRedS: the problem is things that annoy you may not annoy someone else
[14:44] <mungbean_> o365 in a browser > 500MB
[14:44] <BigRedS> diddledan: most of them annoy at least one other person
[14:44] <mungbean_> imap in TB = 200MB
[14:44] <diddledan> so you end up turning everything off because someone somewhere might not like it. so then you have zero functionality
[14:44] <BigRedS> I am being a bit facetious; I'm not genuinely demanding that everything be bent to my will
[14:44] <mungbean_> i know :P
[14:44] <mungbean_> i would agree but if i was a dev i'd want the bits on display
[14:45] <BigRedS> but the point of IMAP is that you don't download all the mail, for example
[14:45] <BigRedS> if I wanted that I'd use POP3
[14:45] <mungbean_> imap has a compress function but i don't think o365 supports it
[14:45] <mungbean_> btw i gave up reddit a few weeks ago and still holding firm
[14:45] <BigRedS> I still ended up downloading headers from 2001 this morning when I configured Tbird. However much you compress it, that's not ideal
[14:46] <mungbean_> i was a bit addicted
[14:46] <BigRedS> yeah, I've stopped pining it in firefox and watched my productivity skyrocket
[14:47] <mungbean_> it was whenever there was a lull in conversation or i was on the toilet etc
[14:47] <mungbean_> or waiting 60 seconds for kettle to boil
[14:48] <mungbean_> but if you stop commenting on stuff then you stop going back
[14:48] <mungbean_> i deleted a load of old comments
[14:48] <BigRedS> yeah, I tend to go a few days without it and then get into a bunch of conversations in the space of about a lunch break and that's it for the rest of the week
[14:48] <BigRedS> the problem is that that's normally Monday's lunch break...
[14:49] <mungbean_> i don't think i'ev missed anything
[14:49] <mungbean_> i scan g+ and news very briefly
[14:49] <mungbean_> i heard 8.1 and 13.10 were out;)
[14:49] <mungbean_> something about a US shutdown but i didn't care
[14:50] <BigRedS> I got into *another* argument with an Atheist last week; those are always time sinks...
[14:50] <mungbean_> what abot?
[14:50] <mungbean_> usual stuff
[14:51] <BigRedS> but, yeah, most of my activity is in militaryporn, mapporn and sysadmin so I don't miss much by not being there
[14:51] <BigRedS> yeah, God
[14:51] <shauno> the shutdown was a bit sad-face.  8 years of uptime is a sad thing to waste
[14:51] <BigRedS> haha
[14:51] <mungbean_> i let God deal with atheists instead of joining in. most who want to discuss it are trolls ;)
[14:51] <mgdm> I only have a reddit account to dispose of /r/atheism; while I nominally am one, FFS those muppets should give it a rest
[14:52] <mungbean_> i dispose(d) of nearly every default sub
[14:52] <mungbean_> i've said stuff in ubuntu before and BigRedS has replied
[14:52] <mungbean_> and i lol silently
[14:53] <BigRedS> I'm in /r/Ubuntu?
[14:53] <mungbean_> because i have a different username
[14:53] <mungbean_> maybe linux relted sub then
[14:53] <directhex> mgdm, agreed
[14:53] <directhex> i signed up when /r/atheism became a default, to remove it from view
[14:53] <BigRedS> Most of the default subs are stereotypical angry redditors arent' they? There's a worldnews and politics IIRC
[14:54] <mungbean_> childish and excitable children
[14:54] <mungbean_> first time they've discovered things
[14:54] <mungbean_> its like freshers week every day on default subs
[14:54] <BigRedS> haha
[14:55] <BigRedS> Hm. Apparently I've made 2 comments in /r/ubuntu, but I can't work out how to find them :)
[14:55] <mungbean_> might not have been ubuntu
[14:55] <BigRedS> Well, I have 2 karma, so I might have just said a lot of disagreeable things
[14:55] <mungbean_> i was in sysadmin, linux sysadmin, ubuntu , linux , etc ,etc
[14:55] <mungbean_> britishproblems...
[14:56] <BigRedS> ah right, I'll stop trying to out you :)
[14:56] <BigRedS> oh! Yeah britishproblems is most of my time
[14:56] <mungbean_> i stopped reading that after it got boring
[14:56] <mungbean_> tea, biscuits, dailymail hate
[14:56] <diddledan> I've never read reddit
[14:56] <shauno> yeah, the DM whining got old quickly
[14:57] <diddledan> excepting when I've been linked to a specifc article
[14:57] <BigRedS> yeah, every so often it gets interesting for a bit. RedLion has replaced britishproblems for the general-british-off-topic that I wanted from britishproblems
[14:57] <mungbean_> imagine you're a teenager and suddenly you discover you can ask questions anonymously "how do i kiss a girl" etc
[14:57] <mungbean_> replicate times a few million
[14:58] <mungbean_> somewhere under the surface are some good replacements for forums, if you only care about latest stuff
[14:58] <mungbean_> i realised i could delete my old comment history without problem because nobody ever reads stuff older than a few weks
[14:58] <mgdm> reddit reminds me a bit of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
[14:58] <BigRedS> yeah
[14:59] <BigRedS> but you can filter a lot of that out, so long as you're not interested in the same thing as all the freshers
[14:59] <BigRedS> so if you want political news or anything remotely mainstream in tech you're out of luck
[14:59] <mungbean_> red lion is cliquey
[14:59] <mungbean_> and dull
[14:59] <mungbean_> with some weird regulars
[14:59] <BigRedS> dull is good!
[14:59] <mgdm> I like /r/DIY
[14:59] <mungbean_> uk should be good, but has too much news
[15:00] <BigRedS> yeah, it keeps getting either political or religious
[15:00] <BigRedS> london has phases of good
[15:00] <mungbean_> eternal september is a good description mgdm
[15:01] <mungbean_> slashdot had insightful comments once, i'm sure
[15:01] <mungbean_> now it's really died.
[15:01] <BigRedS> +1 Insighful
[15:01] <mungbean_> even the memes stopped (i hope)
[15:02] <mungbean_> vmware 5.5 anyotne tried?
[15:02] <penguin42> (Anyone seeing intermittent timeouts on G+ talk?)
[15:03] <gordonjcp> mungbean_: I gave up on slashdot when they did that stupid ROT13 april fool
[15:03] <mungbean_> remember digg?
[15:03] <mungbean_> that coincided with ubuntu being fun (compiz, cube, beryl, etc)
[15:04] <mungbean_> omgubuntu might never get off teh ground today
[15:05] <BigRedS> penguin42: yeah, all the time
[15:05] <popey> ubuntu is way more fun now IMO
[15:05] <popey> with phone ☻
[15:05] <mungbean_> i lolled when i saw omg on the bookmarks toolbar of a screenshot of some teenage hackie kiddie
[15:05] <BigRedS> penguin42: (using XMPP)
[15:05] <BigRedS> mungbean_: was that the ESA one the other day?
[15:06] <mungbean_> some syrian thing
[15:06] <BigRedS> yeah, Electronic Syrian Army
[15:06] <mungbean_> yeah
[15:06] <mungbean_> and bing ?
[15:06] <mungbean_> 4 of the icons on unity were browsers
[15:07] <penguin42> BigRedS: Hmm this is on their web interface that normally works
[15:07] <BigRedS> penguin42: ooh. I never use that, but maybe I'll stop assuming they've broken XMPP to make me use Hangouts
[15:07] <BigRedS> mungbean_: was it unity? I thought I saw a Fedora logo
[15:07]  * mungbean_ checks
[15:08] <mungbean_> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kB27dSQyw4U/UmIt6YTrycI/AAAAAAAAYLU/3pq6h8no868/s1600/Qatar+Domain+Registrar+hacked.png
[15:08] <mungbean_> i was looking on my phone on the bog
[15:09] <penguin42> mungbean_: Qatar hacking? Sounds like they need some menthol
[15:09] <mungbean_> looks hideous
[15:09] <BigRedS> yeah
[15:09] <BigRedS> I always thought that when releaseing screenshots like this they'd arrange things to look as leet as possible
[15:10] <BigRedS> switch to some mental window manager their mate only half-finished writing
[15:10] <BigRedS> that looks like something my mum would give me to sort out her email on
[15:10] <mungbean_> this was also in their bookmarks http://www.zone-h.org/archive/notifier=The%20Pro
[15:11] <BigRedS> Haha, I was just wondering what zone-h.org was
[15:11] <penguin42> topgear.com/india is an important site?
[15:12] <mungbean_> TG is one of biggest progs in teh world
[15:12] <mungbean_> sorry i mean .......in the world
[15:12] <BigRedS> Ohhh, I remember zoneh
[15:12] <BigRedS> haha
[15:12] <mungbean_> i'm more concerned that little timmy is up past his bedtime
[15:12] <mungbean_> its 12;37
[15:12] <mungbean_> 12:19
[15:12] <BigRedS> marines.com is in the UK?
[15:13] <mungbean_> also, google 20130106091517
[15:13] <mungbean_> which is the build number in teh image
[15:14] <BigRedS> I get whostalking.com and zsmall.cn
[15:15] <mungbean_> ah its a wordpress nightly build
[15:15] <BigRedS> oh right
[15:16] <mungbean_> people have been banging on about a recent windows virus that encrpyts files on the network shares
[15:17] <mungbean_> cryptlocker virus or summat
[15:17] <BigRedS> oh yeah, I heard about that
[15:17] <mungbean_> had it here
[15:17] <BigRedS> sounds crafty, though I'm surprised it hadn't happened before
[15:17] <mungbean_> although couldn't get sensible info
[15:17] <gordonjcp> BigRedS: I'm pretty sure it has, but this one is particularly widespread
[15:17] <mungbean_> like what OS patching levels are required
[15:17] <gordonjcp> and it asks for payments in bitcoins so ZOMG UNTRACEABLE BLACK ECONOMY!
[15:18] <mungbean_> virustotal reports most AV as detecting it
[15:18] <BigRedS> mungbean_: my understanding is that nobody's very sure, and lots of things that find it break the decrupt functionality after the encryption's happened
[15:18] <mungbean_> but the broadcast message from IT was arrrggh everybody panic, cannot detect or remove
[15:18] <mungbean_> also its not really a virus but a trojan they have to click on inside a zip
[15:18] <awilkins> If I had to pay for ransomware, I'd want to use Bitcoin, tbh
[15:18] <BigRedS> gordonjcp: proof, as if any were needed, that bitcoin should be banned
[15:19] <awilkins> Cuts both ways - the nefarious chaps can't drain your accounts
[15:19] <mungbean_> people should make chocolate the new currency
[15:19] <mungbean_> see who calls for a ban then
[15:20] <BigRedS> I'd never have any money :(
[15:20] <mungbean_> minstrels would be hard currency
[15:21] <penguin42> mungbean_: well a hard outer shell...
[15:21] <penguin42> mungbean_: How many g of 72% dark equadorian per kloc?
[15:24] <mungbean_> i have £28.45 in my amazon gift voucher accoutn atm \o/
[15:29] <penguin42> and what are you spending it on?
[15:29] <bigcalm> I know somebody with a wedding coming up that you could donate that to :P
[15:30] <diddledan> mungbean_: who are you buying prezzies for? (there's plenty of deserving me in this channel for e.g.)
[15:30] <mungbean_> i'm saving it
[15:30] <mungbean_> not sure what for yet
[15:30] <mungbean_> prob spend in dribs and drabs
[15:30]  * bigcalm just had a pre-wedding cupcake nom nom nom
[15:30] <diddledan> mp3?
[15:30] <diddledan> bigcalm: is it this saturdsday?
[15:31] <bigcalm> diddledan: it's this Friday
[15:31] <diddledan> close
[15:31] <bigcalm> :)
[15:31] <diddledan> coolbeans
[15:31] <mungbean_> my anniversary in 29th oct
[15:31] <diddledan> good luck :-)
[15:31] <bigcalm> diddledan: thank you :)
[15:31] <mungbean_> extra hour in bed soon
[15:31] <diddledan> mungbean_: you tease
[15:32] <diddledan> bed is awesome, so an extra hour is ay-maze-zing
[15:33] <mungbean_> type bst uk into google
[15:33] <mungbean_> massive result
[15:33] <mungbean_> and ends on
[15:33] <mungbean_> Sunday, October 27
[15:33] <mungbean_> wooo
[15:34] <diddledan> \o/
[15:34] <bigcalm> Last Sunday in March, last Sunday in October. Easy enough to remember :)
[15:35] <mungbean_> vmware seem to produce youtube videos of a lady reading web pages to you
[15:36] <mungbean_> e.g. http://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?language=en_US&cmd=displayKC&externalId=2052334
[15:36] <mungbean_> i would prefer patrick stewart doing it or brian blessed
[15:37] <diddledan> brian blessed would put some crazy-cool emphases
[15:37] <penguin42> or Majel Barrett (sp)
[15:39] <diddledan> mungbean_: that's nuts (reading the web page in a video)
[15:40] <mungbean_> needs a x2 button
[15:41] <diddledan> they even included the minimum requirements in sections where the lady says "the minimum server requirements for x" followed immediately by the next sysreqs where she says virtually the same again
[15:42] <diddledan> that really is a crud video
[15:46] <mungbean_> its teh second vid i've watched
[15:47] <mungbean_> i mean i left it playing, hoping something might sink in while i browse the ibm site
[15:47] <mungbean_> feeling mysteriously sleepy
[15:50] <mungbean_> "come work for vmware" they said.
[15:50] <mungbean_> end up reading webpages to a microphone all day
[15:50] <mungbean_> at least you can work from home
[15:50] <penguin42> they can replace you with a small script
[16:10] <penguin42> bizarre, google docs if you right click and select paste on the menu, it brings up a little dialog telling you that you can't paste like that but you can use ctrl-v
[16:11] <directhex> penguin42, i get that in RT
[16:11] <penguin42> RT?
[16:11] <penguin42> it's so much of a 'please don't press this button again'
[16:11] <awilkins> It's a Mozilla thing
[16:12] <awilkins> They locked off access to the clipboard from Javascript / API
[16:12]  * penguin42 wonders if it's a protection thing to stop sites knicking your paste
[16:12] <awilkins> I already have users complaining about it because we changed the internal browser in one of their apps from IE to Xulrunner because, well, IE.
[16:13] <awilkins> Never mind that the only reason they get the message is because they have super-awesome new features like a TinyMCE based editor when they were stuck in plaintext world before.
[16:13] <penguin42> nod, is it changeable via a config thing?
[16:13] <awilkins> Nooooo, "WANT PAST ON MENU WAAAAH"
[16:14] <awilkins> Yeah, I'd really like to know, heard rumours of it being settable in the chrome JS
[16:14] <awilkins> But not found a definitive answer yet
[16:16] <shauno> oh this is wonderful.  IT's ticketing system has decided my email address is invalid because it has an apostrophe in it.  the email address they gave me.  and now I can't figure out how to do anything about it, because .. it needs to go via this ticketing system
[16:17] <awilkins> I similarly hate systems that decided that + was an illegal email address character, whether that's just because they are stupid, or actively evil
[16:17] <shauno> it's an irish company :/  you'd think o'error would be spotted
[16:17] <awilkins> your.email+spam.detection.suffix@example.com should work everywhere and allow you to work out who is a mail sharing swine.
[16:18] <penguin42> shauno: Oh yeh had that with a few companies
[16:19] <shauno> I wouldn't be so annoyed, but it was them that put it there.  I never write the apostrophe.  they 'corrected' my spelling into a version that breaks one third of their own systems
[16:20] <ali1234> wait apostrophe is allowed in emails?
[16:20] <shauno> it's rfc-compliant, yes.  just less real-world compliant
[16:21] <awilkins> Especially "hey, I don't need to be especially rigorous about my email pattern checking" world.
[16:21] <shauno> !#$%&'*+-/=?^_`{|}~  are all valid in the local part
[16:21] <ali1234> quoting/escaping is such a pain
[16:22] <penguin42> thing is it's certainly a surprise to most people that ' is legal
[16:22] <penguin42> shauno: That's a good address to register with things on
[16:23] <shauno> I wouldn't complain if it wasn't.  but I will complain that my employer actively corrected my spelling to include it, and then doesn't handle it themselves
[16:23] <penguin42> haha
[16:24] <mgdm> the list of things theoretically valid in the local part is basicaly the same as the list of printable ASCII chars
[16:24] <mgdm> in practice, though, it's less :)
[16:25] <penguin42> shauno: Heck why are a lot of those in there? I mean ! is bang path, + for the extension, but the rest?
[16:25] <shauno> there's a few more that should be legal but need to be escaped, which doesn't seem sane to me.
[16:25] <penguin42> and I assume you can't arbitrarily put ! in addresses
[16:26] <BigRedS> ali1234: comments are allowed in the local part IIRC
[16:29] <shauno> all manner of sins are rfc-compliant.  " "@example.com should be.  in theory.
[16:34]  * penguin42 wonders how to add that alias to his aliases file
[16:43] <MartijnVdS> just add a backslash :P
[16:51] <diddledan> why does winter/autumn have to be so hot?
[16:51] <diddledan> (indoors)
[16:51] <diddledan> I put a super thick jumper on to go outside and then wilt in the heat when I'm back indoors
[17:11] <BigRedS> diddledan: I blame women generally
[17:11] <BigRedS> It's a phenomenon that seems fairly female - as the temperature outside drops, the ideal temperature indoors *rises*
[17:11] <diddledan> lol
[17:13] <BigRedS> I did once graph the temperature and demonstrate that, indoors, it rose through October and plateaued until about February.
[17:18] <shauno> I guess I'm female then, because I'm guilty of that too
[17:19] <shauno> I'm almost always warmer in winter than summer, because I don't tend to refill the heating oil during the summer
[17:57] <diddledan> shauno: I knew there was a reason I found you so attractive
[18:01] <shauno> diddledan: :(  not tonight man, I've already broken my head trying to grok slavic word endings
[18:02] <diddledan> ywouch
[18:02] <diddledan> yeouch*
[18:04] <shauno> I still can't actually explain to someone why we have "you have" vs "he has".  so má, mám, máš, máme, máte, majú is making my brain turn upside down
[18:05] <shauno> suffice to say slavic lolcats have a good excuse for messing them up
[18:07] <diddledan> really english stands completely isolated from the rest of the european languages in that regard
[18:08] <shauno> english is interesting because grammar is almost entirely optional.  highly recommended, but you can just throw enough words together and be understood if needed
[18:08] <diddledan> when you get into rusky and the other asian languages then all bets are off
[18:10] <diddledan> you need a communications officer like hoshi sato. or a UT
[18:10] <shauno> eg, "I has" sounds wrong, but is still understood.  but mám vs máš is "I have" vs "you have", so getting it wrong changes the actual meaning
[18:12] <shauno> I need memory implants :(
[18:12] <diddledan> I'm assuming má is to have and ám is I so they get concatonated?
[18:12] <diddledan> or is it even weirderer?
[18:13] <shauno> má is 'he has'.  I is ja.  how they combine, I have no idea.  I still haven't found a pattern
[18:13] <diddledan> ok. I see your issue
[18:15] <shauno> tl;dr; not tonight dear, I have a headache
[18:15] <diddledan> :-)
[20:27] <mungbean_> BigRedS: you just reminded me i didn't switch my slug on after the power cut
[20:27] <mungbean_> it does my energy monitoring
[20:31] <mungbean_> http://i.imgur.com/752hK7O.png
[21:38] <diddledan> hmm, I have a requirement to run either vmware esxi or hyper-v server. The problem is I need to run it inside a KVM and it appears KVM doesn't support nested virtualisation fully yet
[21:41] <dwatkins> in-vm-ception?
[21:42] <diddledan> something like that, yeah
[21:43] <bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
[21:52] <diddledan> oh maybe I missed that step last time I tried - there's a kernel-module option that can be assigned to the kvm_intel module
[21:52] <diddledan> Nested=Yes
[21:52] <diddledan> https://github.com/kashyapc/nvmx-haswell/blob/master/SETUP-nVMX.rst
[21:53] <diddledan> very fedora-centric but helps
[22:06] <Daviey> diddledan: no, nested has been enabled by default since 12.04
[22:06] <Daviey> diddledan: That is kvm inside kvm.  I would be quite surprised if using vmware or hyper-v inside kvm plays well
[22:09] <diddledan> I've just been informed about https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bbm
[22:09] <diddledan> it blew my mind
[22:11] <brobostigon> yep , they finally released it. and i have no one who i know had a blackberry.
[22:11] <brobostigon> has*
[22:18] <shauno> for ios too.  and yeah, epic timing.  just as there's finally no use for it
[22:19] <brobostigon> jabber/xmpp did it all th time, end to end, encrypted messaging.
[22:24] <brobostigon> the shining, itv4, great film.
[22:24] <shauno> watching last night's Walking Dead.  jury's still out.  (not sure I get itv4 though)