| === bigcalm_ is now known as bigcalm | ||
| === DGJones is now known as DJones | ||
| bashrc | 13.10 was going so well, and then unity crashed | 10:19 |
|---|---|---|
| bashrc | with a completely blank screen on boot | 10:19 |
| bashrc | pretty much a show stopper | 10:19 |
| bashrc | I tried uninstalling and reinstalling ubuntu-desktop and unity, but to no avail | 10:20 |
| bashrc | ended up just reinstalling from scratch | 10:20 |
| bashrc | ...which takes a long time | 10:20 |
| brobostigon | good morning everyone. | 10:38 |
| bashrc | morning all | 10:41 |
| brobostigon | morning bashrc | 10:42 |
| === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte | ||
| bashrc | has anyone experienced Unity crashing on 13.10? | 11:31 |
| MartijnV1S | not more or less than other versions | 12:21 |
| popey | ditto | 12:21 |
| popey | pretty stable here | 12:21 |
| MartijnV1S | well, less crashing than SOME versions ;) | 12:21 |
| popey | bashrc: what video card? | 12:21 |
| === MartijnV1S is now known as MartijnVdS | ||
| MartijnVdS | popey: how's the storm on your side of the water? | 12:33 |
| popey | not here yet | 12:33 |
| popey | bit windy, but it's not scheduled to get bad till tomorrow I believe | 12:34 |
| popey | early morning | 12:34 |
| MartijnVdS | We're scheduled for "around noon" | 12:34 |
| popey | going to put everything away in the garden | 12:34 |
| MartijnVdS | even the webcam | 12:34 |
| MartijnVdS | ? | 12:34 |
| popey | might setup the camera ☻ | 12:34 |
| popey | or two | 12:34 |
| MartijnVdS | Dutch news links to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKPQLl5rupg | 12:35 |
| popey | ☻ | 12:36 |
| popey | our news keeps showing that too ☻ | 12:36 |
| MartijnVdS | They're expecting a lot of fallen trees, because of the wet ground and top-heavy (with leaves) trees | 12:39 |
| SuperEngineer | Local council interviewed on radio yesterday: "to be honest -our preparedness is about dealing with the aftermath". | 12:49 |
| MartijnVdS | http://bestburgerinnorthwestlondon.wordpress.com/2013/10/24/cheaper-to-rent-in-barcelona-and-commute-to-london/ | 12:49 |
| SuperEngineer | preparedness ~ noun very rare | 12:57 |
| SuperEngineer | 1. the state of having been made ready or prepared for use or action (especially military action). hmmm.... | 12:57 |
| === eddie is now known as Guest11232 | ||
| penguin42 | SuperEngineer: Not that rare these days | 13:06 |
| MartijnVdS | penguin42: Maybe it's "preparedness" as in "how do you want your steak?" - very rare | 13:06 |
| SuperEngineer | MartijnVdS: ;) | 13:13 |
| bashrc | looks like I have the same problem again - 13.10 doesn't boot to unity | 13:25 |
| bashrc | just a blank screen | 13:25 |
| penguin42 | bashrc: does ctrl-alt-f2 get you a text console? | 13:26 |
| bashrc | that's what I'm in now | 13:26 |
| bashrc | emacs/erc | 13:27 |
| penguin42 | bashrc: you say it doesn't boot to unity - does it give you the login screen? | 13:27 |
| bashrc | no | 13:27 |
| bashrc | but at installation I chose to log in automatically | 13:27 |
| penguin42 | ah hmm, so it's a little tricky to know which stage is going wrong | 13:28 |
| penguin42 | bashrc: I'd check both /var/log/lightdm and /var/log/Xorg.0.log | 13:28 |
| bashrc | it obviously doesn'y get as far as unity | 13:28 |
| penguin42 | right but there's a lot of stuff before then | 13:29 |
| bashrc | lightdm.log says it logged to .xsession-errors | 13:35 |
| Kaun | Hello | 13:35 |
| bashrc | is there any recovery or minimal graphics mode? | 13:37 |
| bashrc | I guess I could just work on the commandline indefinitely :) | 13:38 |
| bashrc | last entry in lightdm/x-0.log is "loading extension GLX" | 13:39 |
| penguin42 | bashrc: Look at the dates on the logs - has lightdm's logs got written this time around? | 13:41 |
| bashrc | if I try running the last command in lightdm.log I get "software acceleration check failed" | 13:42 |
| bashrc | logs look recent | 13:45 |
| bashrc | looks like lightdm cannot open the display | 13:49 |
| bashrc | I got my screen back. Yey! | 14:19 |
| bashrc | the solution to not booting with a black screen was sudo apt-get remove nvidia* | 14:20 |
| bashrc | I think this laptop has two graphics cards, Intel and Nvidia | 14:21 |
| penguin42 | bashrc: Ah yes that's common, you can normally force them to use precisely one in the bios | 14:21 |
| penguin42 | bashrc: Which laptop? | 14:21 |
| bashrc | lenovo z580 | 14:21 |
| bashrc | Usually it's using the Intel graphics | 14:22 |
| bashrc | will check the bios | 14:22 |
| penguin42 | bashrc: OK, in the bios you should have a choice between integrated/discrete/optimus, if it does everything you want on intel set the bios to integrated and it'll stick with intel | 14:23 |
| === ikonia_ is now known as ikonia | ||
| bashrc | it may have had something to do with me trying to install opencv, which also installs nvidia-updates | 14:23 |
| bashrc | yes, there is a bios option to select Intel only graphics. Selecting that and removing any nvidia packages fixed the problem | 14:39 |
| penguin42 | bashrc: OK, watch out - on some machines some outputs need the nvidia (e.g. the w520 vga output only works from the nvidia) | 14:40 |
| bashrc | ok. For now I'm not connecting any external screens though | 14:41 |
| bashrc | another success story | 14:42 |
| DJones | One for cat lovers everywhere https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/q71/1378726_738874022795087_1399509075_n.jpg <---- popey ? | 15:21 |
| popey | haha | 15:25 |
| popey | he looks _delighted_ to be there | 15:25 |
| penguin42 | the look on the cats face is priceless | 15:25 |
| DJones | I wondered if it had its claws out holding on | 15:26 |
| lornajane | I have suggested more than once to Kevin that he should put the cat in a sling to make room for his laptop on his lap | 15:26 |
| lornajane | normally he has the cat and the laptop kinda hanging on at different angles | 15:27 |
| popey | http://imgur.com/i3qr5fI | 15:38 |
| popey | how salem sits most days | 15:38 |
| lornajane | hehe, I don't really tolerate the cat in my office, but then he isn't my cat | 15:39 |
| lornajane | mostly he sits immediately outside the office door so I can step over him 80 times a day | 15:39 |
| Azelphur | I should get a cat. xD | 15:40 |
| AlanBell | chickens > cats | 15:54 |
| popey | lies | 15:55 |
| SuperEngineer | ☺ http://www.simonscat.com/ | 15:56 |
| * penguin42 guesses at least you get the eggs from the chickens | 15:56 | |
| AlanBell | so, how many raspberry pi devices do you think it would take to build Ubuntu in a reasonable timeframe? | 15:59 |
| lornajane | AlanBell: quite a lot! | 16:00 |
| penguin42 | AlanBell: A heck of a lot - and then I doubt you'd manage to link libreoffice | 16:00 |
| AlanBell | they built debian for it | 16:01 |
| penguin42 | for or on? | 16:01 |
| AlanBell | and I am mainly interested in the server side stuff | 16:01 |
| AlanBell | penguin42: both, you have to build on the target platform really | 16:01 |
| AlanBell | yes, I know about cross compiling, but a buildd has to be the real architecture | 16:02 |
| penguin42 | AlanBell: Well I'd build on a better ARM than a pi I think if I was building for one | 16:02 |
| penguin42 | or on qemu | 16:02 |
| AlanBell | there isn't a better ARMv6 | 16:02 |
| AlanBell | not significantly anyhow | 16:02 |
| penguin42 | AlanBell: The Guruplugs would probably be a lot better - but I don't think there would be a problem building on v7 as long as you were careful with the build setup | 16:03 |
| penguin42 | (or are guruplugs older....) | 16:03 |
| AlanBell | raspberry pis I don't mind getting lots of because I can always use them | 16:04 |
| AlanBell | I don't mind getting 20 or 30 pi devices if that is a sensible number to use | 16:05 |
| penguin42 | AlanBell: http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/02/21/seneca-uses-guruplug-server-farm-to-build-raspberry-pi-fedora-distribution/ | 16:06 |
| penguin42 | AlanBell: I guess the 512MB ones wouldn't be too bad - and you'd have to think about where you'd do your storage, maybe iscsi or nfs root | 16:08 |
| AlanBell | penguin42: that might have been done before you could buy as many pis as you like, it was one per order for quite a while | 16:09 |
| AlanBell | I don't think the 1.2 Ghz device is significantly faster than the pi (which can be overclocked a bit) | 16:10 |
| penguin42 | http://archive.raspbian.org/raspbian/logs/main/libc/libcmis.log looks like they're building on mx5's | 16:12 |
| penguin42 | AlanBell: Do not under estimate just how grim the CPU on a Pi is | 16:12 |
| popey | MartijnVdS: https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/394497383930671104 | 16:15 |
| AlanBell | penguin42: so I throw more at the problem, the point is that I can use pis, so it doesn't matter how many it takes | 16:16 |
| popey | i have pondered this in the past too | 16:16 |
| popey | considered rebuilding the entire archive on a pi, starting with main | 16:16 |
| popey | (under debian) | 16:16 |
| penguin42 | AlanBell: I'd look for Cortex-A9 based boards, I bet you can find a dual-core A9 board that's more than 4 times the speed of a pi for less than 3 times the cost | 16:20 |
| * AlanBell thinks penguin42 isn't getting the point here :) | 16:20 | |
| penguin42 | AlanBell: What could you possibly want that many PIs for? | 16:20 |
| penguin42 | AlanBell: You're going to need a significant amount of networking/wifi/psu wiring for that many boards | 16:21 |
| AlanBell | control units for bluetooth LE sensors | 16:21 |
| penguin42 | LE? | 16:21 |
| AlanBell | bluetooth smart, it is a bit like RFID | 16:21 |
| AlanBell | low energy stuff, basically bluetooth dongles that sense tiny tags that go on assets that move about | 16:22 |
| AlanBell | and we use raspberry pi devices to listen and send data back to base | 16:22 |
| penguin42 | AlanBell: OK, I mean sure if you want to do it, do - I suspect you'll hit some problems on the big packages (think more than 1 day link time/out of memory) but you'll manage most packages | 16:22 |
| AlanBell | "most packages" is probably fine | 16:23 |
| AlanBell | certainly fine for my own use | 16:23 |
| AlanBell | currently we use raspbian on them, but it would be mildly nice to have exactly the same package versions of everything on the pi as on other things | 16:24 |
| AlanBell | not that raspbian is causing us any problems at all | 16:24 |
| penguin42 | AlanBell: but you see things like http://www.wandboard.org/ and those things should run a standard ubuntu (maybe need a kernel package) | 16:24 |
| AlanBell | but I can use pis, so I can buy as many as I like, because they will get used in production eventually | 16:24 |
| penguin42 | (what is the collective noun for pis?) | 16:25 |
| lornajane | a pickle of pis? | 16:25 |
| shauno | a bakery! | 16:25 |
| penguin42 | lornajane: I like that | 16:25 |
| AlanBell | sure, we could use all sorts of other things, but we are using the pi :) | 16:26 |
| lornajane | all collective nouns should be aliterative also | 16:26 |
| AlanBell | a bramble of raspberry pis | 16:26 |
| lornajane | the only real collective noun I could think of starting with P was parliament and that doesn't fit for a Pi | 16:27 |
| lornajane | posse? Hmm | 16:27 |
| penguin42 | AlanBell: well then I guess you probably could if you have a surfeit of Pis, the trick will be finding out how to cluster them cheaply | 16:28 |
| AlanBell | yeah, would need to try to stick to components that can be useful, maybe use wifi for networking | 16:29 |
| AlanBell | we could switch to the model A without ethernet anyhow | 16:30 |
| popey | well this is interesting | 16:31 |
| * popey has a pi booted on his desk with a USB attached SATA disk | 16:31 | |
| penguin42 | AlanBell: Build over wifi - you really are wanting pain aren't you? | 16:31 |
| popey | all powered off a portable battery | 16:31 |
| AlanBell | oh, that only has 1 usb | 16:31 |
| AlanBell | penguin42: they don't have networking when building | 16:31 |
| AlanBell | but they do download packages to create the build environment | 16:31 |
| penguin42 | AlanBell: So you're going to keep each one self contained? The way others are suggesting is to run it as a distcc farm | 16:32 |
| popey | hmm, ssd not powering up | 16:33 |
| popey | unsurprisingly | 16:33 |
| AlanBell | popey: so the ssd in sata enclosure gets power from the battery through a Y lead? | 16:34 |
| popey | no, bu i should try that | 16:34 |
| popey | if i could find the cabler | 16:34 |
| AlanBell | penguin42: I think that is how buildd works, you have lots of builders that build packages | 16:34 |
| popey | found it | 16:34 |
| popey | hmm, not seen in dmesg | 16:35 |
| popey | the blue LED gets brighter when the Y lead is attached | 16:35 |
| popey | thats disappointing | 16:36 |
| popey | i dont actually think the build time is the biggest issue, it's more patching packages to make them build at all | 16:53 |
| AlanBell | yeah, I am not too worried about build time | 16:53 |
| penguin42 | AlanBell: Remember that may be in days | 16:54 |
| AlanBell | sure, some packages might take days, but I am cool about leaving it running for a few months | 16:54 |
| penguin42 | ok then.... | 16:55 |
| penguin42 | AlanBell: What storage are you going to run off? | 16:56 |
| AlanBell | dunno, the pi *has* to boot from SD card, but it can then hand off to something else, either USB attached or NFS (yeah, storage over wifi might be a bit scary) | 16:57 |
| penguin42 | AlanBell: Building off SD isn't necessarily very pretty - some of them won't last that long | 16:57 |
| AlanBell | yeah, we have good ones. SLC based, but they are not cheap | 16:58 |
| AlanBell | however for a build farm cheap unreliable SD cards are fine, if one breaks you just rip it out and stick in another one | 16:59 |
| penguin42 | yeh but if you can network them then you avoid that pain | 16:59 |
| AlanBell | they still each need an SD card to boot from | 16:59 |
| AlanBell | and network contention could be a problem, I dunno | 17:00 |
| AlanBell | there would be a computer with a few TB of attached storage to serve up packages to the builders, that might not be a pi | 17:01 |
| penguin42 | AlanBell: do they have usb-networking setups with pis? | 17:02 |
| AlanBell | the network card hangs off the USB | 17:03 |
| AlanBell | which has the expected impact on performance :) | 17:03 |
| penguin42 | AlanBell: No, I mean pi<->usb<->pc ? | 17:03 |
| AlanBell | oh, right, erm, no | 17:03 |
| AlanBell | the USB input on the PI is just for power | 17:03 |
| penguin42 | ah, that's a useful trick on a lot of the android things | 17:04 |
| AlanBell | it doesn't have a guest mode USB, but you can hack stuff together if sufficiently motivated | 17:04 |
| AlanBell | looks like a buildd is suggested to have 20G of disk space, which means slightly more expensive SD cards, or NFS for the build directory | 17:18 |
| AlanBell | though I suspect for most packages a lot less would be fine | 17:19 |
| popey | AlanBell: why not a decent 32GB USB stick? | 17:21 |
| popey | AlanBell: 4m46s to build tar on my i7. 36m28s to build tar on RPi with SD card | 17:42 |
| AlanBell | not so bad | 17:53 |
| penguin42 | that's tar - a nice small easy to compile package | 17:53 |
| AlanBell | 32G USB stick is a possibility | 17:53 |
| penguin42 | popey: Out of interest had you set the parallelism on your i7? | 17:54 |
| popey | i didnt, i just ran "debuild -uc -us" | 17:54 |
| penguin42 | popey: But do you have the debian env set for parallelism? | 17:55 |
| popey | as I said... no ☻ | 17:55 |
| penguin42 | popey: See what difference a export DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS='parallel=10' | 17:56 |
| popey | on which box? | 17:56 |
| penguin42 | popey: The i7 | 17:56 |
| penguin42 | (unless you want to try running 10 builds at once on a Pi!) | 17:56 |
| penguin42 | popey: Or I think you can do debuild -j 10 | 18:00 |
| AlanBell | popey: USB sticks are not that much cheaper than SD cards and I can't re-use them as easily | 18:02 |
| popey | real 4m47.312s | 18:02 |
| popey | no difference penguin42 | 18:02 |
| directhex | AlanBell, raspberry pi's usb stack is a joke. it won't be faster | 18:06 |
| AlanBell | it isn't about faster | 18:06 |
| penguin42 | popey: Hmm that's curious | 18:25 |
| andylockran | hey guys - any recommendations on how to get a machine past a grub boot screen? I haven't got a keyboard to hand to press enter to continue - so it's just stuck there.. | 20:41 |
| shauno | why does it want you to hit enter? | 21:04 |
| === carlos is now known as Guest15181 | ||
| zleap | i am sure it should time out to the default and carry on | 21:23 |
| Myrtti | dwatkins: http://imgur.com/gallery/oobfnMe | 21:26 |
| dwatkins | Myrtti: a wizard, eh? | 22:53 |
| dwatkins | http://i.imgur.com/or9IwTS.jpg | 22:53 |
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