=== bigcalm_ is now known as bigcalm === DGJones is now known as DJones [10:19] 13.10 was going so well, and then unity crashed [10:19] with a completely blank screen on boot [10:19] pretty much a show stopper [10:20] I tried uninstalling and reinstalling ubuntu-desktop and unity, but to no avail [10:20] ended up just reinstalling from scratch [10:20] ...which takes a long time [10:38] good morning everyone. [10:41] morning all [10:42] morning bashrc === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [11:31] has anyone experienced Unity crashing on 13.10? [12:21] not more or less than other versions [12:21] ditto [12:21] pretty stable here [12:21] well, less crashing than SOME versions ;) [12:21] bashrc: what video card? === MartijnV1S is now known as MartijnVdS [12:33] popey: how's the storm on your side of the water? [12:33] not here yet [12:34] bit windy, but it's not scheduled to get bad till tomorrow I believe [12:34] early morning [12:34] We're scheduled for "around noon" [12:34] going to put everything away in the garden [12:34] even the webcam [12:34] ? [12:34] might setup the camera ☻ [12:34] or two [12:35] Dutch news links to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKPQLl5rupg [12:36] ☻ [12:36] our news keeps showing that too ☻ [12:39] They're expecting a lot of fallen trees, because of the wet ground and top-heavy (with leaves) trees [12:49] Local council interviewed on radio yesterday: "to be honest -our preparedness is about dealing with the aftermath". [12:49] http://bestburgerinnorthwestlondon.wordpress.com/2013/10/24/cheaper-to-rent-in-barcelona-and-commute-to-london/ [12:57] preparedness ~ noun very rare [12:57] 1. the state of having been made ready or prepared for use or action (especially military action). hmmm.... === eddie is now known as Guest11232 [13:06] SuperEngineer: Not that rare these days [13:06] penguin42: Maybe it's "preparedness" as in "how do you want your steak?" - very rare [13:13] MartijnVdS: ;) [13:25] looks like I have the same problem again - 13.10 doesn't boot to unity [13:25] just a blank screen [13:26] bashrc: does ctrl-alt-f2 get you a text console? [13:26] that's what I'm in now [13:27] emacs/erc [13:27] bashrc: you say it doesn't boot to unity - does it give you the login screen? [13:27] no [13:27] but at installation I chose to log in automatically [13:28] ah hmm, so it's a little tricky to know which stage is going wrong [13:28] bashrc: I'd check both /var/log/lightdm and /var/log/Xorg.0.log [13:28] it obviously doesn'y get as far as unity [13:29] right but there's a lot of stuff before then [13:35] lightdm.log says it logged to .xsession-errors [13:35] Hello [13:37] is there any recovery or minimal graphics mode? [13:38] I guess I could just work on the commandline indefinitely :) [13:39] last entry in lightdm/x-0.log is "loading extension GLX" [13:41] bashrc: Look at the dates on the logs - has lightdm's logs got written this time around? [13:42] if I try running the last command in lightdm.log I get "software acceleration check failed" [13:45] logs look recent [13:49] looks like lightdm cannot open the display [14:19] I got my screen back. Yey! [14:20] the solution to not booting with a black screen was sudo apt-get remove nvidia* [14:21] I think this laptop has two graphics cards, Intel and Nvidia [14:21] bashrc: Ah yes that's common, you can normally force them to use precisely one in the bios [14:21] bashrc: Which laptop? [14:21] lenovo z580 [14:22] Usually it's using the Intel graphics [14:22] will check the bios [14:23] bashrc: OK, in the bios you should have a choice between integrated/discrete/optimus, if it does everything you want on intel set the bios to integrated and it'll stick with intel === ikonia_ is now known as ikonia [14:23] it may have had something to do with me trying to install opencv, which also installs nvidia-updates [14:39] yes, there is a bios option to select Intel only graphics. Selecting that and removing any nvidia packages fixed the problem [14:40] bashrc: OK, watch out - on some machines some outputs need the nvidia (e.g. the w520 vga output only works from the nvidia) [14:41] ok. For now I'm not connecting any external screens though [14:42] another success story [15:21] One for cat lovers everywhere https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/q71/1378726_738874022795087_1399509075_n.jpg <---- popey ? [15:25] haha [15:25] he looks _delighted_ to be there [15:25] the look on the cats face is priceless [15:26] I wondered if it had its claws out holding on [15:26] I have suggested more than once to Kevin that he should put the cat in a sling to make room for his laptop on his lap [15:27] normally he has the cat and the laptop kinda hanging on at different angles [15:38] http://imgur.com/i3qr5fI [15:38] how salem sits most days [15:39] hehe, I don't really tolerate the cat in my office, but then he isn't my cat [15:39] mostly he sits immediately outside the office door so I can step over him 80 times a day [15:40] I should get a cat. xD [15:54] chickens > cats [15:55] lies [15:56] ☺ http://www.simonscat.com/ [15:56] * penguin42 guesses at least you get the eggs from the chickens [15:59] so, how many raspberry pi devices do you think it would take to build Ubuntu in a reasonable timeframe? [16:00] AlanBell: quite a lot! [16:00] AlanBell: A heck of a lot - and then I doubt you'd manage to link libreoffice [16:01] they built debian for it [16:01] for or on? [16:01] and I am mainly interested in the server side stuff [16:01] penguin42: both, you have to build on the target platform really [16:02] yes, I know about cross compiling, but a buildd has to be the real architecture [16:02] AlanBell: Well I'd build on a better ARM than a pi I think if I was building for one [16:02] or on qemu [16:02] there isn't a better ARMv6 [16:02] not significantly anyhow [16:03] AlanBell: The Guruplugs would probably be a lot better - but I don't think there would be a problem building on v7 as long as you were careful with the build setup [16:03] (or are guruplugs older....) [16:04] raspberry pis I don't mind getting lots of because I can always use them [16:05] I don't mind getting 20 or 30 pi devices if that is a sensible number to use [16:06] AlanBell: http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/02/21/seneca-uses-guruplug-server-farm-to-build-raspberry-pi-fedora-distribution/ [16:08] AlanBell: I guess the 512MB ones wouldn't be too bad - and you'd have to think about where you'd do your storage, maybe iscsi or nfs root [16:09] penguin42: that might have been done before you could buy as many pis as you like, it was one per order for quite a while [16:10] I don't think the 1.2 Ghz device is significantly faster than the pi (which can be overclocked a bit) [16:12] http://archive.raspbian.org/raspbian/logs/main/libc/libcmis.log looks like they're building on mx5's [16:12] AlanBell: Do not under estimate just how grim the CPU on a Pi is [16:15] MartijnVdS: https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/394497383930671104 [16:16] penguin42: so I throw more at the problem, the point is that I can use pis, so it doesn't matter how many it takes [16:16] i have pondered this in the past too [16:16] considered rebuilding the entire archive on a pi, starting with main [16:16] (under debian) [16:20] AlanBell: I'd look for Cortex-A9 based boards, I bet you can find a dual-core A9 board that's more than 4 times the speed of a pi for less than 3 times the cost [16:20] * AlanBell thinks penguin42 isn't getting the point here :) [16:20] AlanBell: What could you possibly want that many PIs for? [16:21] AlanBell: You're going to need a significant amount of networking/wifi/psu wiring for that many boards [16:21] control units for bluetooth LE sensors [16:21] LE? [16:21] bluetooth smart, it is a bit like RFID [16:22] low energy stuff, basically bluetooth dongles that sense tiny tags that go on assets that move about [16:22] and we use raspberry pi devices to listen and send data back to base [16:22] AlanBell: OK, I mean sure if you want to do it, do - I suspect you'll hit some problems on the big packages (think more than 1 day link time/out of memory) but you'll manage most packages [16:23] "most packages" is probably fine [16:23] certainly fine for my own use [16:24] currently we use raspbian on them, but it would be mildly nice to have exactly the same package versions of everything on the pi as on other things [16:24] not that raspbian is causing us any problems at all [16:24] AlanBell: but you see things like http://www.wandboard.org/ and those things should run a standard ubuntu (maybe need a kernel package) [16:24] but I can use pis, so I can buy as many as I like, because they will get used in production eventually [16:25] (what is the collective noun for pis?) [16:25] a pickle of pis? [16:25] a bakery! [16:25] lornajane: I like that [16:26] sure, we could use all sorts of other things, but we are using the pi :) [16:26] all collective nouns should be aliterative also [16:26] a bramble of raspberry pis [16:27] the only real collective noun I could think of starting with P was parliament and that doesn't fit for a Pi [16:27] posse? Hmm [16:28] AlanBell: well then I guess you probably could if you have a surfeit of Pis, the trick will be finding out how to cluster them cheaply [16:29] yeah, would need to try to stick to components that can be useful, maybe use wifi for networking [16:30] we could switch to the model A without ethernet anyhow [16:31] well this is interesting [16:31] * popey has a pi booted on his desk with a USB attached SATA disk [16:31] AlanBell: Build over wifi - you really are wanting pain aren't you? [16:31] all powered off a portable battery [16:31] oh, that only has 1 usb [16:31] penguin42: they don't have networking when building [16:31] but they do download packages to create the build environment [16:32] AlanBell: So you're going to keep each one self contained? The way others are suggesting is to run it as a distcc farm [16:33] hmm, ssd not powering up [16:33] unsurprisingly [16:34] popey: so the ssd in sata enclosure gets power from the battery through a Y lead? [16:34] no, bu i should try that [16:34] if i could find the cabler [16:34] penguin42: I think that is how buildd works, you have lots of builders that build packages [16:34] found it [16:35] hmm, not seen in dmesg [16:35] the blue LED gets brighter when the Y lead is attached [16:36] thats disappointing [16:53] i dont actually think the build time is the biggest issue, it's more patching packages to make them build at all [16:53] yeah, I am not too worried about build time [16:54] AlanBell: Remember that may be in days [16:54] sure, some packages might take days, but I am cool about leaving it running for a few months [16:55] ok then.... [16:56] AlanBell: What storage are you going to run off? [16:57] dunno, the pi *has* to boot from SD card, but it can then hand off to something else, either USB attached or NFS (yeah, storage over wifi might be a bit scary) [16:57] AlanBell: Building off SD isn't necessarily very pretty - some of them won't last that long [16:58] yeah, we have good ones. SLC based, but they are not cheap [16:59] however for a build farm cheap unreliable SD cards are fine, if one breaks you just rip it out and stick in another one [16:59] yeh but if you can network them then you avoid that pain [16:59] they still each need an SD card to boot from [17:00] and network contention could be a problem, I dunno [17:01] there would be a computer with a few TB of attached storage to serve up packages to the builders, that might not be a pi [17:02] AlanBell: do they have usb-networking setups with pis? [17:03] the network card hangs off the USB [17:03] which has the expected impact on performance :) [17:03] AlanBell: No, I mean pi<->usb<->pc ? [17:03] oh, right, erm, no [17:03] the USB input on the PI is just for power [17:04] ah, that's a useful trick on a lot of the android things [17:04] it doesn't have a guest mode USB, but you can hack stuff together if sufficiently motivated [17:18] looks like a buildd is suggested to have 20G of disk space, which means slightly more expensive SD cards, or NFS for the build directory [17:19] though I suspect for most packages a lot less would be fine [17:21] AlanBell: why not a decent 32GB USB stick? [17:42] AlanBell: 4m46s to build tar on my i7. 36m28s to build tar on RPi with SD card [17:53] not so bad [17:53] that's tar - a nice small easy to compile package [17:53] 32G USB stick is a possibility [17:54] popey: Out of interest had you set the parallelism on your i7? [17:54] i didnt, i just ran "debuild -uc -us" [17:55] popey: But do you have the debian env set for parallelism? [17:55] as I said... no ☻ [17:56] popey: See what difference a export DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS='parallel=10' [17:56] on which box? [17:56] popey: The i7 [17:56] (unless you want to try running 10 builds at once on a Pi!) [18:00] popey: Or I think you can do debuild -j 10 [18:02] popey: USB sticks are not that much cheaper than SD cards and I can't re-use them as easily [18:02] real 4m47.312s [18:02] no difference penguin42 [18:06] AlanBell, raspberry pi's usb stack is a joke. it won't be faster [18:06] it isn't about faster [18:25] popey: Hmm that's curious [20:41] hey guys - any recommendations on how to get a machine past a grub boot screen? I haven't got a keyboard to hand to press enter to continue - so it's just stuck there.. [21:04] why does it want you to hit enter? === carlos is now known as Guest15181 [21:23] i am sure it should time out to the default and carry on [21:26] dwatkins: http://imgur.com/gallery/oobfnMe [22:53] Myrtti: a wizard, eh? [22:53] http://i.imgur.com/or9IwTS.jpg