[11:27] <brainwash> did anyone notice the behavior described in bug 1243837 ?
[11:42] <elfy> not seen it 
[13:16] <jjfrv8> bluesabre, the playlist remove duplicates setting works well in latest build :)
[13:59] <bluesabre> jjfrv8, great to hear; I'll make sure to do another dev release soon
[13:59] <bluesabre> today I'm working on rearranging the home, so I'll be off and on
[14:28] <jjfrv8> bluesabre, good luck with that ^ :D
[14:38] <Mapley> Question for the devs -
[14:38] <Mapley> How did you set a mouse cursor theme for LightDM?
[14:39] <Mapley> That is, with the GTK greeter.
[14:40] <Mapley> Oh, I see. /usr/share/icons/default/index.theme inherits DMZ-Black. Disregard that!
[14:43] <Mapley> s/Black/White/
[17:42] <ochosi> jjfrv8, bluesabre: that's great progress on the parole-docs!
[17:42] <ochosi> about the screenshot stuff, i'm not sure, but i'd want *at least* the screeners in the parole-docs to be consistent
[17:43] <bluesabre> xfce docs have to use a certain theme, right?
[17:43] <ochosi> so if they're not the same as the rest (because e.g. the xfce-engine doesn't support a nice styling of the overlay-playback-controls, then we should at least have one gtk/icon-theme that *we* stick to)
[17:43] <bluesabre> (gtk-theme)
[17:43] <ochosi> yes, also faenza as icon-theme
[17:44] <ochosi> that part should work fine (faenza should have most icons that we need – apart from face-sick)
[17:45] <ochosi> the xfce docs uise the xfce gtk-theme and the faenza icon-theme
[17:45] <ochosi> but i think as parole isn't part of -core, it's not a huge problem if we do things a little differently
[19:19] <jjfrv8> ochosi, ok, I'll make sure I use the gtk-theme and the faenza icons. Is there an official version of faenza? I don't see them in the repository. 
[19:20] <jjfrv8> I went to xfce.org to get some, but they don't seem to be complete. Lot of missing icons. Not on Parole,though.
[19:20] <jjfrv8> They just look slightly different on Parole's menu items.
[19:21] <jjfrv8> slickymaster, let's make sure we use them on the screenshots we do when we get to the menu items.
[19:23] <Noskcaj> jjfrv8, No one's bothered to sponsor faenza in debian, i think there are two versions packaged
[19:25] <jjfrv8> Noskcaj, where are those versions? Do you happen to know which one Xfce prefers?
[19:25] <Noskcaj> not really, i'll try and find some info
[19:26] <jjfrv8> thanks. bbl.
[19:33] <Noskcaj> xfce probably prefers faenza-xfce, custom made by ochosi 
[19:33] <Noskcaj> oops, i pinged him
[19:34] <Noskcaj> The git for the packaging is at https://github.com/rbrito/pkg-faenza-icon-theme
[19:34] <Noskcaj> I wonder if micah or lionel could try and get it uploaded straight to ubuntu
[19:51] <ochosi> jjfrv8: just use the latest version of faenza you can find, e.g. in the launchpad repo
[19:51] <ochosi> no need for faenza-xfce, it was just an addon but most of it was merged into faenza itself by now
[19:53] <knome> good evening
[19:54] <Noskcaj> morning knome 
[19:58] <knome> hey Noskcaj 
[19:59] <elfy> hi knome 
[19:59] <Unit193> Howdy elfy.
[19:59] <knome> hey elfy, Unit193 
[20:00] <elfy> hi Unit193 
[20:01] <knome> and hai ochosi
[21:19] <ochosi> knome: i've thought a bit about our roadmap for 14.04
[21:19] <ochosi> todo-items etc.
[21:19] <Unit193> And you'd like to take most?
[21:19] <ochosi> most of what i can think of at the moment concerns xfce upstream
[21:20] <ochosi> and helping them to get 4.12 ready and out
[21:20] <ochosi> so i might focus on that
[21:20] <knome> ochosi, feel free to update the wikipage
[21:21] <ochosi> right, but i'm not sure it's something very "trackable"
[21:21] <knome> the roadmap itself doesn't need to be all-trackable work items
[21:21] <Noskcaj10> ochosi, One way you could help is convince corsac to upload the 4.11 stuff to experimental
[21:21] <ochosi> Noskcaj10: nah, i'm not really into packaging
[21:22] <Noskcaj10> It's all packaged, it's just a case of corsac doesn't have enough people helping with bugs to upload it
[21:23] <ochosi> well then what can i do?
[21:23] <Noskcaj10> i've got to go to school now, bye
[21:23] <skellat> Noskcaj10!
[21:24] <brainwash> any plans to get rid of gnome-system-tools (users-admin)?
[21:24] <micahg> Noskcaj10: we won't take all of 4.11 in Ubuntu anyways, only the pieces we need for the gtk3 indicator enablement and that other feature we wanted
[21:25] <ochosi> brainwash: well there's a mostly-finished part of a replacement for that in git.xfce
[21:25] <ochosi> brainwash: but someone would have to pick it up and finish it
[21:25] <ochosi> hey micahg 
[21:25] <brainwash> ochosi: oh, I see
[21:27] <micahg> hi
[21:28] <micahg> well, we don't want a rushed 4.12, we want a stable LTS
[21:28] <ochosi> yeah, i'll just do whatever i can to support xfce (as i do almost always, but i'm not sure what i'll do for this xubuntu release specifically)
[21:31] <ochosi> micahg: any luck in getting the indicator-stuff or the panel into a ppa yet?
[21:31] <micahg> no, been busy unfortunately
[21:31] <micahg> I've got work still this weekend
[21:32] <ochosi> wow, for me the weekend is clearly over :)
[21:32] <micahg> I'm going to try again this week
[21:32] <knome> ochosi, timezones...
[21:33] <micahg> I think I'm 7 hours behind you
[21:34] <knome> he's UTC+1
[21:34] <micahg> ah, 6 houts
[21:34] <micahg> *hours
[21:35] <micahg> oh, did he already roll back DST?
[21:35] <knome> though DST ended last night, was +2
[21:35] <knome> i'm +2 now.
[21:35] <knome> i think all of EU did.
[21:35] <micahg> so, he's now +1
[21:35] <ochosi> yup
[21:36] <brainwash> ochosi: greybird will remain the default theme, right?
[21:36] <micahg> so, 7 time zones, 6 hours :)
[21:36] <micahg> still UTC-5 for another week
[21:37] <knome> they should get rid of the DST madness.
[21:37] <ochosi> brainwash: yeah, i think it will
[21:37] <knome> well unless there is another as tested, as well supported theme...
[21:37] <brainwash> all shimmer ones are :P
[21:37] <knome> all of them kind of are, but not really
[21:37] <ochosi> well, i don't personally use bluebird or albatross anymore
[21:38] <ochosi> so that means they got a lot less attention
[21:38] <knome> albatross needs reworking
[21:38] <brainwash> numix
[21:38] <ochosi> numix is farely tested, but its focus is on gnome3
[21:38] <ochosi> and i'm not driving that project really
[21:38] <knome> bluebird is mostly good, since it's getting stuff from greybird
[21:38] <ochosi> i helped a bit here and there with the gtk2 part
[21:38] <ochosi> and with the xfwm part
[21:38] <ochosi> but really, numix is not very much in my hands
[21:38] <ochosi> i'm happy we have it aboard though
[21:39] <brainwash> there is nothing bad about greybird, just feel that it got a bit boring
[21:39] <knome> that's not a problem really, but i agree the fact that its focus is not xfce is a con
[21:39] <ochosi> well numix is mostly being tested on fedora with gnome3
[21:40] <brainwash> you can but it even in the software center
[21:40] <ochosi> brainwash: yeah, we can consider switching themes at some point. tbh i grew a bit weary of designing new themes...
[21:41] <knome> generally i think after LTS is a good spot to do that
[21:41] <brainwash> maybe some new slight changes to greybird would do the job
[21:41] <brainwash> so it feels "new"
[21:41] <knome> heh.
[21:41] <knome> please, no changes for the sake of changes
[21:42] <ochosi> brainwash: actually, i did change the menu color since the last LTS
[21:42] <ochosi> that enraged quite a few people
[21:42] <micahg> +1, I'd like to just get everything stable for the LTS
[21:42] <ochosi> many loved it though too
[21:42] <brainwash> yeah, and we got the theme config tool now
[21:42] <ochosi> micahg: yeah, no worries, i'm not planning anything crazy ;)
[21:43] <ochosi> brainwash: exactly. so you can even get that 12.04 greybird look back, if you really want
[21:43] <knome> ultimately, users can and will change themes, wallpaper, installed applications and what not, so the point is to ship a sensible default...
[21:44] <knome> who knows what we end up doing after 14.04 with simon :)
[21:44] <ochosi> exactly
[21:45] <ochosi> maybe i'll be "too old for this s***" (to quote a weary black man)
[21:46] <brainwash> right, the LTS should be stable and not cause any uproars like 13.10 did
[21:47]  * micahg is checking the latest abiword now
[21:47] <brainwash> 13.10 is like the worst release since I'm using ubuntu mainly (maybe because I did lots of bug tracking and debugging)
[21:47] <micahg> brainwash: we can try to fix the indicators, anything else wronf?
[21:47] <micahg> *wrong
[21:49] <brainwash> uhm, the terminal segfault comes to mind, a patch is available and ali1234 even build the package in his PPA
[21:50] <brainwash> bug 1206739
[21:50] <ochosi> brainwash: i think that yes, it's due to the debugging that you see this release as particularly bad
[21:50] <ochosi> but true, the sound-indicator-issue isn't nice
[21:51] <ochosi> 14.04 will certainly be better
[21:51] <brainwash> everything seems to go so slow after release, are people afraid of filing SRU reports? :)
[21:51] <knome> was thinking the same, doing a lot of debugging doesn't inherently mean the release is bad
[21:51] <knome> you just were involved more...
[21:51] <micahg> I think part of the problem is that mr_pouit and I have really been lacking time
[21:52] <knome> the fix for the problem is supporting bluesabre to get upload permissions ASAP
[21:52] <micahg> I'd love too, as soon as he has enough experience :0
[21:52] <knome> with supporting i also meant making him have.
[21:53] <brainwash> bug 1222021 is bothering many people too
[21:55] <ochosi> yeah, xfce-powerman needs to support systemd at some point
[21:55] <ochosi> but there's no-one to work on that (upstream)
[21:55] <ochosi> so we might (at some point) have to think about alternatives
[21:56] <knome> probably a good idea to keep an eye on that for T
[21:57] <brainwash> a patch has been released months ago
[21:57] <micahg> needs to support powerd at least
[21:57] <knome> if we seeked for somebody who could work on that now, we might get it done for T... ;)
[21:58] <ochosi> +1
[21:59] <knome> looks like i might be a bit more available... well, sometime next month .P
[21:59] <ochosi> not sure where to find someone who can do that though
[21:59] <knome> but i'll try to squeeze in more FOSS-time
[21:59] <knome> send mails to email lists, shout around the social media, stuff like that
[21:59] <ochosi> there was a guy on the xfceML who added an interesting xfce4-powerman patch (laptop-keyboard-backlight support), he could be contacted
[22:00] <knome> yep, that kind of people.
[22:00] <ochosi> but then again, means being the go-between to get some xfce dev to review and push the code
[22:00] <knome> yyyyep.
[22:00] <knome> but i guess we need to make sure we have time for that kind of stuff now and in the future
[22:03] <ochosi> and nerves...
[22:03] <brainwash> oh yeah
[22:03] <knome> correct
[22:04] <brainwash> still got plenty of things to debug, and it's driving me mad
[22:04] <micahg> new abiword will hopefully land in trusty soon
[22:05]  * micahg just sync'd it
[22:05] <brainwash> isn't saucy already shipping 3.0?
[22:05] <knome> micahg, a real release or a random snapshot?
[22:06] <micahg> 3.0.0
[22:06] <brainwash> that reminds me of the libreoffice discussion
[22:06] <knome> brainwash, improving self-control is a thing that i encourage doing, but do not approve as an official work item :P
[22:07] <micahg> brainwash: saucy has a 3.0 snapshot, I'll have to see what the diff is to see if we can SRU 3.0 itself
[22:07] <micahg> backport is always an option
[22:07] <knome> saucy is "just" saucy, it's a non-LTS version just before an LTS; we should encourage everybody to upgrade to 14.04 anyway
[22:07] <micahg> knome: not for another 9 months :)
[22:08] <micahg> meh, at least 
[22:08] <micahg> 6
[22:08] <knome> heh. :)
[22:08] <micahg> I'd like to backport 3.0 all the way to precise
[22:08] <knome> i understand, but we should still consider if backporting something means that we will not have time to fix/do something else for 14.04
[22:08] <micahg> I'm just severely lacking time right now
[22:09] <Unit193> Heh, I'd like a backported cryptsetup once it hits trusty, but alas...
[22:09] <knome> but yeah, i think backporting 3.0.0 is a good idea
[22:09] <micahg> well, if people can do the testing, I can prepare uploads and push the buttons
[22:09] <brainwash> any benefit of doing it? it's just abiword :)
[22:09] <micahg> abiword in precise is atrocious
[22:10] <knome> micahg, a song for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu3FTEmN-eg
[22:10] <knome> micahg, (wait for the refrain)
[22:12] <knome> actually, the C-part @ 2:00
[22:13] <micahg> haha
[22:13] <ochosi> i think abiword is less important than the indicators
[22:13] <knome> yep
[22:13] <ochosi> SRUing or backporting those would be great
[22:14] <micahg> on my list for this week, if you don;t hear anything by Wed, poke me
[22:14] <ochosi> can do
[22:14] <knome> SRU would be awesome
[22:14] <ochosi> we should have a thug-bot for those things :)
[22:14] <micahg> haha
[22:15] <knome> what about the notes?
[22:15] <ochosi> what notes?
[22:15] <micahg> well, let's get it working first, then we can figure out backport vs SRU
[22:15] <knome> nah, let's SRU a broken stack!
[22:16] <ochosi> the cool thing is, as soon as we have gtk3-indicators working, we can patch lotsa indicators to work nicer with xfe
[22:16] <ochosi> xfce
[22:17] <ochosi> (e.g. power-indicator, which has the nice benefit of optionally showing the remaining battery-life/time with numbers in the panel)
[22:22] <brainwash> and it's once again "xmir or classic xorg", right?
[22:22] <knome> yep, we should consider that again
[22:59] <micahg> +1, let's wait until Ubuntu defaults to it before considering
[22:59] <micahg> though
[23:00] <knome> sure
[23:02] <ochosi> micahg: and let's hope ubuntu doesn't do anything crazy with the indicator-stack this cycle ;)
[23:05] <Unit193> It's now Qt!
[23:07] <micahg> haha
[23:07] <knome> that wasn't a joke
[23:08] <micahg> oh, I thought ochosi was trying to be a straighman, obviously the indicator stack will undergo major changes for the LTS, it wouldn't be an LTS cycle otherwise :P
[23:09] <knome> yeah, why not