[00:15] <aquarius> how do I install a click package that isn't in the store yet onto a phone?
[00:17] <Elleo> aquarius: pkcon install-local yourpackage.click
[00:18] <aquarius> Elleo, ah, so I scp the package onto the phone, then do that?
[00:18] <Elleo> yep
[00:18] <aquarius> how do I uninstall it again afterwards?
[00:18] <Elleo> that I'm less sure of, pkcon has a remove option, but I haven't been able to figure out what it expects the app id to be
[00:19] <Elleo> it doesn't seem to just be the domain ("com.example.yourpackage") or the format click uses ("com.example.yourpackage_yourpackage_1.0")
[00:20] <Elleo> and it doesn't seem to have an option for listing installed packages either to give you a clue
[00:20] <aquarius> the click tools can list packages
[00:20] <aquarius> but I don't know if the click tools are on the phone or not :)
[00:20] <Elleo> do they not just list them in the click format (com.example.yourpackage_yourpackage_1.0)?
[00:20] <aquarius> hm, adb shell logs me into the phone as root
[00:20] <Elleo> because pkcon didn't seem to like that as a value
[00:21] <Elleo> aquarius: if you run service start ssh you can ssh in as phablet
[00:21] <aquarius> click can uninstall packages as well, I think, but I think that might be pretty recent, which maybe explains why pkcon doesn't work yet; it may not be hooked up to uninstall
[00:21] <Elleo> ah
[00:21] <aquarius> cjwatson will know.
[00:21] <Elleo> or just sudo to phablet I guess
[00:21] <aquarius> what's phablet's password?
[00:21] <Elleo> phablet
[00:21] <aquarius> ah, i could su to phablet, indeed.
[00:22] <Elleo> I found adb shell massively annoying since it wraps everything at 80 characters
[00:22] <Elleo> so any long commands get rather garbled
[00:22] <aquarius> however, am loath to install a package if I can't uninstall it
[00:22] <aquarius> yeah, "click" is on the phone
[00:22] <aquarius> and click unregister should therefore work
[00:23] <aquarius> but I don't know which user that gets run as.
[00:23] <aquarius> "clickpkg", I think
[00:24] <Elleo> "click: error: click unregister must be started as root, since it may need to remove packages from disk" <-- that answers that I guess ;)
[00:24] <aquarius> I'd like to test that my generated click package works, but I want to be able to uninstall it afterwards, 'cos it's not quite fniished yet :)
[00:24] <aquarius> har!
[00:24] <aquarius> that does answer that. :)
[00:24] <aquarius> better to have pkcon be hooked up to the click back end, I feel.
[00:24] <Elleo> yeah
[00:25] <Elleo> but I've just successfully uninstalled a package so it seems to work at least :)
[00:27] <aquarius> orly?
[00:27] <aquarius> maybe I'll try that then :)
[00:27] <Elleo> :)
[00:29] <aquarius> so you run pkcon as phablet? or as root?
[00:29] <Elleo> pkcon as phablet
[00:29] <Elleo> then click unregister as root it seems
[00:29] <Elleo> I'd guess pkcon ends up running click install as root behind the scenes or something
[00:30] <aquarius> yeah
[00:30] <aquarius> do I have to do something to poke the Dash so it notices that I've installed a package?
[00:31] <Elleo> not sure, I tended to just run stuff from the terminal for a while
[00:31] <Elleo> not sure if things showed up on the launcher immediately or not
[00:31] <Elleo> or if they only showed up later
[00:31] <aquarius> ah, search finds it.
[00:31] <Elleo> ah good
[00:33] <aquarius> oooh, hung the phone
[00:33] <aquarius> that's unideal
[00:33] <aquarius> especially since it worked when running it from the sdk ide.
[00:34] <aquarius> (I wish that wasn't called "Ubuntu SDK". I don't like calling it Qt Creator because it's not *just* QtC, and that leads to confusion, but "Run your app from Ubuntu SDK" doesn't make any sense.)
[00:35] <Elleo> ooh well done, I managed to crash mir plenty of times and get white screens of failure but I never actually got it completely hung
[00:36] <aquarius> how are you running apps from the cli?
[00:36] <aquarius> qmlscene can't connect to the display.
[00:36] <aquarius> do I need to run it under something magic?
[00:37] <Elleo> is this a pure qml thing?
[00:37] <aquarius> yep
[00:37] <Elleo> or a c++ thing?
[00:37] <aquarius> pure qml
[00:37] <aquarius> No C++ for me, ever
[00:37] <Elleo> not entirely sure about pure qml things
[00:38] <aquarius> now, why isn't that working, then?
[00:38] <Elleo> I don't know if it's true of qml things, but when launching c++ apps you have to specify the desktop file it's associated with
[00:38] <aquarius> I'm now running it by tapping it in the Dash, and looking at ~/.cache/upstart/application-click-(packagename).log
[00:38] <Elleo> e.g. ./yourapp --desktop_file_hint=/opt/click.ubuntu.com/com.example.yourapp/yourapp.desktop
[00:38] <aquarius> and that's not showing anything wrong
[00:39] <aquarius> and yet... black screen instead of an app.
[00:39] <Elleo> aha, same seems to be true of qml apps
[00:40] <Elleo> I just ran "qmlscene uReadIt.qml --desktop_file_hint=/opt/click.ubuntu.com/com.ubuntu.developer.mhall119.ureadit/current/ureadit.desktop" successfully
[00:41] <aquarius> well, it unregisters, anyway :)
[00:41] <Elleo> perhaps something is preventing it loading at all, I used to get white screens when my app wouldn't start due to missing libraries
[00:42] <Elleo> and nothing much logged
[00:42] <aquarius> ah, if I can do that, then I can see if I get console output.
[00:42] <Elleo> yeah
[00:43] <aquarius> QXcbConnection: Could not connect to display
[00:43] <Elleo> if you're running the ubuntu-sdk you might want to try just "ssh phablet@localhost -p 2222" to get a proper ssh session before trying to type out something long like that
[00:43] <Elleo> are you running this as root perhaps?
[00:43] <aquarius> I'll try under ssh raher than adb shell.
[00:44] <Elleo> yeah, probably best
[00:44] <aquarius> erm
[00:45] <aquarius> how is that ssh command of yours meant to work?
[00:45] <aquarius> I don't want to ssh into localhost
[00:45] <Elleo> ubuntu-sdk setups up a port forward for you
[00:45] <Elleo> you might have to enable something on the device page first
[00:46] <aquarius> oooooooo
[00:46] <aquarius> I think adb shell might have buggered that up.
[00:46] <Elleo> I probably enabled developer mode and platform development mode, not sure if those were necessary for ssh access though
[00:46] <Elleo> aha
[00:46] <Elleo> that's interesting to know
[00:46] <aquarius> I shall restart qtc
[00:47] <aquarius> right, now it works
[00:47] <Elleo> cool
[00:47] <aquarius> ha!
[00:47] <aquarius> and there's the problem. :)
[00:47] <Elleo> oh?
[00:48] <aquarius> I'm including a qml component that I no longer use :)
[00:48] <Elleo> ah
[00:48] <aquarius> so I didn't put it in the click package
[00:48] <aquarius> but I haven't deleted it off the disk, so it works locally.
[00:48] <aquarius> Why isn't that in the logs?
[00:48] <aquarius> grr.
[00:48] <Elleo> heh
[00:51] <aquarius> mhall119, shouldn't stderr output from qmlscene end up in the upstart log somewhere so it can be seen
[00:51] <aquarius> ?
[00:51] <aquarius> yeahhhhhhh
[00:51] <aquarius> now my app works.
[00:53] <Elleo> cool
[00:53] <Elleo> what's the app?
[00:53] <aquarius> little puzzle game
[00:53] <Elleo> neat
[00:53] <aquarius> once my design guy has done me an icon, I shall release it; probably tomorrow
[00:54] <Elleo> nice
[00:54] <Elleo> I like your dropping letters game
[00:54] <aquarius> the game itself is dead simple; I'm using it as a way to get more of a hang of all the ancillary stuff needed to make a simple app nice
[00:54] <Elleo> at least I think that's one of yours?
[00:54] <aquarius> it is indeed
[00:54] <Elleo> cool
[00:55] <aquarius> although I wrote the game; keeping it up to date with the SDK and writing tests etc has been taken on by nice people like kenvandine and balloons
[00:55] <Elleo> yeah, that's the best approach to development, do all the cool fun stuff then shove the maintenance off on some poor suckers ;)
[00:56] <aquarius> you might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment. :)
[00:56] <aquarius> it has been interesting seeing how much stuff there is to do outside core gameplay, though; discovering this is why I wrote this little puzzle thing
[00:57] <aquarius> core game took about five minutes. Making sure all the screens transition nicely, the typography is right, it's got an icon and a description and a manifest and sound effects and so on has taken way longer
[00:57] <Elleo> yeah
[00:58] <aquarius> that's what'll make the platform nice, though. I am dead scared that there will be too many apps which just have core gameplay and nothing else
[00:58] <Elleo> all platforms end up with a large amount of dross, but with a decent rating/ordering system in the store that's less of an issue
[00:59] <Elleo> at the beginning meego had a tonne of apps that were basically just a qml wrapper around some rss feeds
[00:59] <Elleo> because the terrible devs that did that sort of thing could just churn out hundreds of them in a go
[01:01] <Elleo> the cream will rise :)
[01:01] <Elleo> I'm more worried about people making restrictive platform decisions out of fear or rubbish apps which then hampers the creation of decent ones
[01:02] <aquarius> ending up with dross is ok -- as you say, that'll happen
[01:02] <aquarius> starting off that way discourages good developers from joining.
[01:02] <Elleo> currently my spotify client is a bit useless since there's no way to request that it continue running in the background or halting full suspending
[01:02] <aquarius> meego... is not exactly the poster child for having a large selection of great apps.
[01:03] <aquarius> ya. The background stuff is being worked on -- that's not a restrictive platform decision, it's a function of having lots of arses to kick and not all that many boots :)
[01:03] <Elleo> true, but it had some corkers :)
[01:03] <Elleo> heh
[01:03] <aquarius> it did have great apps, indeed
[01:03] <aquarius> just not many :)
[01:04] <aquarius> I *believe* (and I may well be wrong about this) that you can hand off musci playing to The Background Music Service and then you're OK
[01:04] <Elleo> and if ubuntu touch doesn't end up too restrictive I think there could be a good amount of porting of meego and sailfish apps to ubuntu touch (and vice-versa)
[01:04] <aquarius> actually having your app be *itself* a background daemon is coming, but using the existing background services to play music and download stuff is doable now as I understand it
[01:05] <Elleo> aquarius: a background music service is an okay option, but it mustn't be the *only* option
[01:05] <Elleo> since things like spotify can't work that way
[01:05] <aquarius> why not?
[01:05] <Elleo> as you have to handle little buffers chucked your way from libspotify
[01:05] <Elleo> rather than a stream or file that you can actually hand off somewhere else
[01:05] <aquarius> oh, you don't get a URL with auth tokens that you can give to someone else?
[01:05] <aquarius> ah
[01:05] <Elleo> nope, unfortunately not
[01:06] <aquarius> that might mean the spotify app needs to wait until apps are themselves allowed to be background daemons, then
[01:06] <Elleo> well I *could* refactor to make a background daemon that does all the spotify stuff
[01:06] <Elleo> and then the ui just chats to that over dbus
[01:06] <Elleo> but it'd be a pain in the arse
[01:06] <aquarius> you could, but you're not allowed to run background daemons :)
[01:07] <Elleo> yeah, not yet anyway
[01:07] <aquarius> I'd talk to tvoss about this, if I were you. Firstly he'll know the current status, and secondly this will be a useful piece of input into the plan for background stuff, which he's lead guy on
[01:07] <Elleo> personally I'd like to see fairly unrestricted multi-tasking like on meego and sailfish, with some resource policy type system for requesting that you stay out of full suspend
[01:08] <Elleo> aquarius: well I've made my case on the mailing list
[01:08] <Elleo> there's currently a massive thread about all this :P
[01:08] <aquarius> oh, already? cool :)
[01:08] <aquarius> I have not been reading the mailing list. Suppose I should, really :0
[01:08] <Elleo> heh
[01:10] <Elleo> aquarius: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg04736.html <-- that's the thread if you fancy a nice long read ;)
[01:21] <aquarius> have read
[01:22] <aquarius> general approach -- which I agree with, I think -- is that if you want to do some sort of a background thing, you should (a) use one of the platform services, (b) if you think you can't use one of the platform services, think again and find a way of doing it, (c) if you *really* can't, such as is the case for your spotify app because of the way libspotify works, then wait for background daemons to be allowed and
[01:22] <aquarius> then refactor your app to be a background daemon and a UI.
[01:23] <aquarius> Your point that this makes your app not be a direct port of MeeSpot is a valid one
[01:23] <aquarius> but I suspect that that is not by itself enough of a reason :)
[01:26] <Elleo> yeah, but it's a shame the more ubuntu touch adds additional restrictions the less incentive there is for people to port apps like this
[01:26] <Elleo> although of course the majority of apps aren't effected by this sort of decision
[01:27] <Elleo> but I'm more interested in the success of QT based Linux phone platforms than I am in the success of any specific one, so the easier it is to make apps available for all of them the happier I am
[01:31] <Elleo> another little project I have vaguely planned is an Ubuntu Touch/Sailfish robotics platform (probably using something IOIO like on ubuntu and trying to do something nifty with the Jolla Other Half) based around ROS for which these sorts of issues rear their head again
[01:32] <Elleo> but I suspect the restrictions around click apps will make that impossible for ubuntu
[01:33] <aquarius> might do. I know nothing of robotics :)
[01:33] <aquarius> anyway, must sleep, it's half one
[01:33] <Elleo> and I fully realise that isn't something most users or app developers would care about, but one of the main reasons I've really liked previous linux based phones is the freedom to do that sort of esoteric thing
[01:33] <aquarius> later :)
[01:33] <PDilyard> ok so I'm doing a home automation project with a Raspberry Pi. I currently have an alarm system in my house (with switches and sensors already installed).
[01:33] <Elleo> night :)
[01:33] <PDilyard> I plan on writing the application that listens for faults on my own. I'm open to any suggestions on how to go about this (I'd prefer to use python, but I'm open to any language).
[01:33] <PDilyard> The finished product will be a touch screen with a fairly simple GUI. There will be an "Arm" button to arm the alarm system, and a "Disarm" button that will require a password.
[01:33] <PDilyard> I have a couple of questions about how to do this:
[01:34] <PDilyard> 1) Is a loop that runs several times per second checking for faults in the system a good way to go about it?
[01:34] <PDilyard> 2) I would like to be able to remotely arm/disarm the system, as well as open/close the garage door. Any ideas on how I should do this?
[01:34] <PDilyard> 3) How can I require a password to Disarm the system? It would be easy to just exit the program without typing in a password to disarm the alarm system.
[01:35] <Elleo> PDilyard: is this a touch app or a general application? One thing to be aware of is that it's not currently possible to do much with python in touch apps and still have them distributable since click can't specify dependencies and pyqt isn't installed as part of the base system
[01:35] <PDilyard> it will just be a general application
[01:35] <Elleo> (although I'd like to see that change)
[01:36] <Elleo> is this an app running on the pi or running on a pc that the pi talks to?
[01:36] <PDilyard> probably running on the pi
[01:36] <PDilyard> I haven't started to develop yet, so I'm open to any and all suggestions though
[01:36] <Elleo> can you setup the system to trigger an interrupt on the pi?
[01:37] <Elleo> (when something goes wrong)
[01:37] <Elleo> rather than constantly polling the system
[01:37] <PDilyard> hmm that might be a good idea
[01:37] <PDilyard> the Pi has a bunch of General Purpose I/O ports, so I guess I could make a circuit that only triggers the Pi when there is a break in the circuit
[01:37] <Elleo> as for remote arming/disarming if you give the pi a wifi dongle and write a quick http server you can trigger it from any browser on your network
[01:38] <Elleo> (or make it accessible outside of your network if you really wanted to)
[01:38] <Elleo> although I'm not sure I'd want my security system open to the internet no matter how sure I was of its passwords :P
[01:38] <PDilyard> but i could just set use a VPN client to get into it from anywhere
[01:39] <PDilyard> which would be more secure
[01:39] <Elleo> yeah
[01:39] <Elleo> as for point three, I'd guess you'd want to make the alarm system non-dependant on the pi
[01:39] <Elleo> so if the pi is suddenly removed everything continues running and alarms can be tripped
[01:40] <Elleo> the pi just has the capacity to explicitly disable the alarm
[01:40] <Elleo> so some other little microcontroller in the circuit handling the actual alarm stuff and talking to the pi might be good
[01:40] <PDilyard> hmm alright
[01:40] <Elleo> that's just off the top of my head though, and I'm no expert in home automation/alarm system type stuff
[01:41] <PDilyard> not a problem, i appreciate your input
[01:41] <Elleo> #raspberrypi might have more insights :)
[01:41] <PDilyard> good idea
[01:46] <PDilyard> Elleo, what would you recommend for developing applications for Ubuntu? This would be my first project. I'd like to use python, what would you recommend for creating a GUI?
[01:48] <Elleo> PDilyard: well QT5 and QML are quite pleasant (available in python via PyQt5 but only if your app is GPL'd)
[01:48] <Elleo> GTK is fairly nice in python too though
[01:49] <Elleo> I'd suggest just having a bit of a play with them, read through a couple of tutorials and see what clicks with your way of thinking best
[01:49] <PDilyard> ok cool, i'll look into it
[01:56] <PDilyard> Elleo: so if I go with QML, do i have the ability for a user to click a button and run a python script in the background?
[01:57] <Elleo> PDilyard: yeah, there's two ways you can do that, the traditional way is with PyQt acting as a host for the QML app (just like you can do with C++)
[01:58] <Elleo> the newer and more experimental way is to use PyOtherSide which embeds the python3 interpretter inside QML as a QML plugin
[01:58] <PDilyard> ok
[02:34] <PDilyard> Elleo: in GTK, do you know how to link to another "activity" with a button. For example, you have a home screen, you click a "Settings" button, and it takes you into a settings screen
[02:37] <Elleo> PDilyard: if you want to do it all within one window you could use a stack and a stack switcher, or a notebook for a tabbed approach
[02:37] <Elleo> or you could simply open a new window
[02:39] <PDilyard> thanks
[02:40] <Elleo> no worries :)
[02:50] <PDilyard> Elleo: are you talking about GTK or GTK+, or are they the same thing?
[02:52] <Elleo> PDilyard: same thing
[02:52] <Elleo> only gtk3 has stacks iirc, gtk2 just has notebooks
[02:53] <Elleo> anyway, bed time for me; good luck with your app :)
[02:54] <PDilyard> thank you!!
[02:54] <Elleo> no problem :)
[09:38] <aquarius> Given that apps can't open the Dash, if I want MyGreatApp to have a clickable button saying "hey! get MyGreatApp 2!", how do I do it? What I want is to make that link to something like dash://applications/MyGreatApp2 ...
[09:39] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Animation Day! :-D
[11:03] <nik90> aquarius: I think the uri_handler should do this..atm there are only links to specific apps like music, alarm, browser, settings app etc
[11:03] <nik90> aquarius: may be talk to tedg?
[11:08] <popey> +1
[11:09] <aquarius> nik90, popey: the problem is that the Dash (and thus the applications scope) is not an app
[11:10] <popey> i don't think that matters
[11:10] <popey> it would need to be picked up by unity8
[11:38] <aquarius> popey, it would -- but as I understand it, popping up the Dash based on a user action in an app is a design no-no :(
[11:38] <aquarius> popey, where's your get-a-screenshot-from-the-phone script so I can nick it?
[11:40] <popey> aquarius: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~popey/+junk/phablet-flash-wrapper/view/head:/mirfbdump
[11:40] <aquarius> thanks, dude :)
[11:41] <popey> it's a rip off of http://people.canonical.com/~j-lallement/touch/mirfbdump
[11:41] <popey> which you may prefer
[11:41] <popey> mine doesn't reduce quality of images though, and has upload capability (which you may not want)
[11:45] <popey> Can't quite fathom why developers are submitting iOS apps to the store.
[11:46] <aquarius> I have just taken the upload thing out of it
[11:46] <popey> Interestingly it's a Unity3D app looking at the contents of the zip file, which (if Unity3D were ported) could possibly run on the platform (once other API stuff is done)
[11:46] <aquarius> works perfectly; nice one
[11:46] <nik90> popey: wait ur script uploads to imgur? that would be awesome
[11:46] <popey> np
[11:46] <nik90> or ur server/
[11:46] <popey> it just scp's
[11:46] <popey> to any server you specify, but yeah, imgur might be nice
[11:46] <popey> is there a command line I can use to do that? curl maybe?
[11:47] <aquarius> uploading to imgur would be pretry trivial; just use the API.
[11:47] <popey> http://planspace.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/upload-images-to-your-imgur-account.html
[11:47] <popey> aquarius: patches welcome
[11:47] <popey> I _never_ get to say that.
[11:47] <aquarius> I don't need imgur upload capability :)
[11:48] <aquarius> gotta faff about registering an app to get api keys, though.
[11:48] <popey> yeah
[11:48] <popey> easier to just scp
[11:48] <aquarius> *nod*
[11:48] <popey> then I get the magic that is http://popey.com/~alan/phablet/gallery.php
[11:48] <aquarius> you do indeed
[11:48] <aquarius> which I used again at the weekend, so thank you for that :)
[11:49] <nik90> popey: the docs for sharing to social networks used by ureadit app is not really that easy to understand :(
[11:54] <nik90> mhall119: Can you create a post explain rev 8 of your ureadit app. would love to see explanations for the friends features u added to your app.
[12:11] <mattaustin> Hi, got my Nexus 4 today. Following the release note guidelines to get ssh access, but they don't appear to be accurate. I ran adb shell, and did apt-get install openserver, but it was already installed (doesn't match the instuctions).
[12:11] <mattaustin> 'service ssh status' said it wasn't running, so I started it. But no luck connecting. ssh phablet@myip just returns 'no route to host'. Any ideas?
[12:12] <mattaustin> 'ssh localhost' from 'adb shell' works, so the service is running on the device.
[12:12] <mattaustin> 'ufw status' shows no firewall running.
[12:13] <mattaustin> *openssh-server
[12:14] <ogra_> mattaustin, sshd is installed, but disabled by default (since we default to a readonly FS you cant really install debs anymore (and we dont encourage that))
[12:14] <ogra_> mattaustin, adb shell start ssh
[12:15] <ogra_> that should give you sshd running
[12:15] <ogra_> (note: it wont persist, you need to do the same after next reboot again)
[12:16] <mattaustin> ogra_: thanks, will give that a go :).
[12:16] <mihir> hey guys :)
[12:24] <mattaustin> ogra_: That worked after a reboot, cheers!
[12:25] <popey> mattaustin: which instructions did you follow?
[12:25] <popey> (so I can get them fixed)
[12:31]  * ogra_ files bug 1245465
[12:31] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1245465 in webbrowser-app (Ubuntu) "should offer a commandline option to override the user agent in webapp mode" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1245465
[12:35] <daker> ogra_: i discussed this with dbarth‎ it would be good to override the ua-overrides.js itself since it's not really a clean way to passe the UA (like "Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A334 Safari/7534.48.3") in commandline option
[12:36] <mattaustin> popey: Thanks, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes#Accessing_the_device_over_SSH
[12:36] <ogra_> daker, well, i dont want to override all the other entries when i try to make my webapp work
[12:37] <mattaustin> popey: Also, I found that the instructions for installing the SDK were incorrect - the ppa mentioned shows a big deprecation warning in it's description: http://developer.ubuntu.com/apps/create/get-the-sdk/
[12:37] <popey> thanlks mattaustin
[12:37] <ogra_> daker, btw, do you know any way to get a back button or even have all external links opening in the browser with your x-type  example ?
[12:39] <daker> ogra_: what's the actual result ?
[12:40]  * daker didn't get yet a phone to test with
[12:40] <ogra_> daker, oh, and another thing, i bert it would be a good idea to add the audio policy to x-type ... i bet the game has saound ;)
[12:41] <ogra_> daker, the result for me is that i get an empty toolbar whn swiping from the bottom ... and that external links open in the webapp itself ... (tricky without a back button to get back again)
[12:43] <daker> ogra_: not sure why but the audio works only on a desktop browser not why the devs didn't implement it (will ask)
[12:43]  * ogra_ tried your wrapper with m.slashdot.org ... the wrapper works fine, but i miss all the --webapp functions the browser gives me (only open certain pages inside the app, get the nav elements by default etc)
[12:43] <ogra_> daker, well, if you add "audio" to your x-type.json it should just work
[12:44] <daker> ogra_: i don't think so
[12:44] <ogra_> it works for me in other apps
[12:45] <ogra_> audio, video and networking should always be accessible for all apps if defined in the json file
[12:45] <daker> ogra_: the problem is on the game itself
[12:45] <ogra_> ah, k
[12:46] <daker> ogra_: if you the webpp you want to package already provide a mobile version then you should use the --webapp
[12:46] <ogra_> daker, right, thats what i do ...
[12:46] <ogra_> daker, but i have a few sites where it doesnt work at all
[12:46] <ogra_> like m.slashdot.org or m.sz.de
[12:47] <ogra_> they automatically falll back to the desktop version
[12:47] <daker> ogra_: because they do UA sniffing :)
[12:47] <ogra_> typically all sites where android would have a js popup  "do you want to see the mobile version oof this page"
[12:48] <aquarius> popey, is there any way to link from a website to an Ubuntu phone app at all which is a useful link to follow for people on the phone? For desktop apps there's apps.ubuntu.com, but I don't think there's anything like that for phones, and I have no idea what to put on an app website other than "Available from the Ubuntu applications scope" with no link
[12:51] <daker> ogra_: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/webbrowser-app/trunk/view/head:/src/app/commandline-parser.cpp#L82
[12:52] <daker> hmm well not sure but only one argument can be used :(
[12:52] <ogra_> which arg are you referring to now ?
[12:53] <daker> --enable-back-forward
[12:53] <ogra_> (i usually use --webappUrlPatterns= and --enable-back-forward)
[12:53] <ogra_> but that doesnt work in the wrapper case
[12:54] <daker> ah yes
[12:54] <daker> since it's only provides the UbuntuWebView
[12:54] <daker> it*
[12:55] <ogra_> right
[12:55] <daker> so you need the UA override bug to be fixed so you can override the UA in webapp mode
[12:55] <ogra_> right
[12:55] <ogra_> :)
[12:56] <ogra_> thus the bug i filed ;)
[12:59] <blaroche> anyone available that can purge files/app from 'MyApps'?
[13:05] <daker> ogra_: :)
[13:05] <davmor2> blaroche: what app
[13:07] <blaroche> package name if feed-the-aggregator
[13:08] <davmor2> blaroche: I think you'll want beuno for that
[13:08] <blaroche> davmor2: thank you
[13:09] <popey> aquarius: not yet
[13:09] <beuno> blaroche, why do you need it purged?
[13:11] <blaroche> beuno: i needed to fix *.desktop file, clicked 'resubmitting' thinking i'd be able to select an updated click package, but just resubmitted the same package.  so i decided to delete is and start over..
[13:11] <blaroche> so, now seems i can submit a new app, since there might be existing files from the old submit
[13:12] <ogra_> blaroche, bumping the version should solve that
[13:12] <blaroche> ogra_: i figured that out a little too late unfortunatly
[13:12] <ogra_> (just make it 0.2 in the manifest and also in the submission form)
[13:13] <blaroche> problem was i resubmitted the same package, and i didn't want to waste the reviewers time with the same package that was already reviewed
[13:14] <popey> it doesn't work like that, you aren't wasting our time ☻
[13:15] <popey> it takes the same amount of time for us to review 1.0 as it does to review 1.1
[13:15] <beuno> blaroche, done
[13:15] <aquarius> popey, no worries: I didn't think so, just curious in case I'd missed somethnig :)
[13:16] <blaroche> beuno: thank you very much
[13:17] <beuno> hey aquarius!  I miss you!
[13:17] <aquarius> beuno, heya, pal!
[13:18] <aquarius> miss me, huh? Are there lots more buses going past your place with no-one under them this week? ;-)
[13:18] <ogra_> beuno, we all do !!
[13:18] <beuno> aquarius, ah, so you've heard I'm in Oakland again, huh?  :)
[13:20] <aquarius> I shall release a simple little puzzle app for the phone later today, which might keep people's minds occupied for a few minutes
[13:20] <aquarius> once my design guy has done me an icon :)
[13:21] <popey> aquarius: lemme know if you need any review/playtesting. I am good at breaking things ☻
[13:21] <aquarius> popey, you might get a sneak preview :)
[13:23] <popey> heh
[13:27] <aquarius> Elleo, https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-appstore-developers/msg00553.html explains how to get the ID for a click package so that pkcon can remove it
[13:28] <aquarius> beuno, having fun in Oakland? I did see some suggestions that the streets were filled with armed police
[13:29] <Elleo> aquarius: ah cool, thanks
[13:29] <aquarius> thank cjwatson, not I :)
[13:33] <mattaustin> Anyone know if video-out (mhl) works with the nexus 4? I know there was an example of using it with the convergence plans, but I was wondering if I could easily demo the phone ui on a tv using it? I'm hoping to give a small talk on qt/qml at my local python users group before the end of the year.
[13:42] <popey> mattaustin: nope
[13:43] <popey> mattaustin: might be easier to point a webcam at the device and project that from your laptop
[13:43] <popey> for the moment
[13:43] <mattaustin> popey: cheers, saves me buying a cable and finding out. Webcam sounds like a plan, thanks.
[13:45] <mattaustin> A follow up question - any way to easily take a screenshot from the device?
[13:47] <blaroche> last step uploading click package:
[13:47] <blaroche> Total uploaded: 100%
[13:47] <blaroche> Upload failed due to an Server error. Details: BAD REQUEST code 400.
[13:47] <popey> mattaustin: http://people.canonical.com/~j-lallement/touch/mirfbdump that script
[13:47] <blaroche> any ideas what could be the problem?
[13:48] <beuno> blaroche, the server may be timing out, try again
[13:48] <popey> blaroche: we have seen this a few times, can you retry?
[13:48] <mattaustin> popey: Great, thanks again!
[13:48] <popey> np
[13:48] <blaroche> yea, i'll give it a few and try.  i'll ping back if its still an issue after a few hours.  thanks
[14:03] <ogra_> blaroche, i had that on friday too
[14:03] <ogra_> beuno, ^^^
[14:03] <ogra_> smells like a flaky backend server or some such
[14:04] <ogra_> uploading them as arm packages worked for me, but that doesnt pass the review
[14:04] <james_w> ogra_: yours was because a duplicate upload for that version  number
[14:04] <james_w> it looks like
[14:04] <james_w> at least when you got a 500
[14:04] <james_w> if you got a 400 that will be something else
[14:05] <ogra_> james_w, nope, it definitely failed already with the first upload
[14:05] <ogra_> admittedly i tried  a few times a few hours later though
[14:05] <james_w> actually though I think there was a change to return a 400 on duplicates
[14:05] <ogra_> i got a 400 too
[14:06] <james_w> you can find out what it was using the developer toolbar until the UI is updated to show the information
[14:06] <ogra_> i tried from 3 different machines (thinking it was a browser issue) on the second try
[14:06] <james_w> if you activate request logging in the developer toolbar
[14:06] <ogra_> and it just worked when i tried on sunday again
[14:06] <mattaustin> popey, ogra_: Mission successful, got my app running: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BXq0NX3CMAAIq7A.png:large , thanks for your help.
[14:06] <james_w> then you can see the request and look at the content for the 400
[14:06] <popey> mattaustin: sweet!
[14:06] <ogra_> james_w, ok, will do that the next time i run into that
[14:07] <james_w> thanks
[14:07] <blaroche> ogra_: there is a problem with arm packages and passing the review?  thats what i'm uploading..
[14:07] <ogra_> blaroche, click packages need to be arch all as far as i know
[14:08] <ogra_> (someone correct me if i'm wrong)
[14:08] <blaroche> mind is c++/qml,so it's only compiled for arm
[14:08] <blaroche> mine*
[14:08] <james_w> blaroche: would you be able to use the developer toolbar to find out what problem you are having?
[14:09] <james_w> the developer toolbar in your browser as you upload I mean
[14:09] <mhall119> nik90: yeah I need to write about that.  I wanted to get conditional layouts working for it first, but QtWebKit doesn't seem to like being in them and keeps crashing the app
[14:11] <blaroche> james_w: sure.  let me play with it, see if i can find useful info for you
[14:12] <james_w> blaroche: if you activate it and then do the upload
[14:12] <james_w> you should see the 400 reponse
[14:12] <james_w> and if you look at the content it will be something like
[14:13] <james_w> {'errors': {'something': ['some error', ...]}}
[14:17] <nik90> mhall119: oh yeah I remember you mentioning that
[14:17] <nik90> mhall119: was a bug filed on that?
[14:17] <blaroche> looks like file dup error:
[14:18] <blaroche> "The path 'com.ubuntu.developer.larochelle.brian/feed-the-aggregator/com.ubuntu.developer.larochelle.brian.feed-the-aggregator_0.1.0_armhf.click' is not unique."
[14:18] <blaroche> i could just bump the version to 0.2.0
[14:19]  * ogra_ wonders how to prevent app names with spaces in them being cut off in the UI
[14:20] <ogra_> while Fruity Pops shows the full name, Pumpkin Smasher  only shows "Pumpkin"
[14:20] <blaroche> my app 'Feed the Aggregator' def gets cut...  i just haven't worried about it much
[14:21] <blaroche> I think it only shows 'Feed the'
[14:21]  * ogra_ tried quoting the name in the .desktop file ... but that actually adds the quotes to the UI and still cuts it off at the space
[14:22] <james_w> blaroche: yeah, that would get around it
[14:22] <james_w> thanks for checking
[14:22] <blaroche> james_w: yw.  thanks for the help
[14:22] <mhall119> nik90: there was upstream, IIRC, but I don't have a link or bug #
[15:20] <randomcpp> popey, ping
[15:20] <popey> yo randomcpp
[15:20] <randomcpp> how are you? :)
[15:21] <popey> Great thanks! Hows things?
[15:21] <popey> blaroche: your icon seems a bit small
[15:21] <randomcpp> jamie strandboge reviewed my app, but I didn't understand some things
[15:21] <popey> blaroche: might want to scale it up? https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/site_media/appmedia/2013/10/alligator265x256_1.png
[15:21] <popey> randomcpp: what's the app url?
[15:21] <randomcpp> https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/click-apps/82/changerequest/
[15:23] <randomcpp> he says I have to choose ARMHF when I upload the click pkg, but I did chose 'armhf' when I uploaded the latest version (1.0.9)
[15:23] <randomcpp> is there a parameter in manifest.json I need to change?
[15:24] <blaroche> popey: yea, i really suck at art.  i was planning to try harder with images in a version or to.  but i can try scaling quickly
[15:24] <aquarius> Is there guidance for Ubuntu SDK app icons?
[15:24] <nik90> blaroche: that alligator looks cute
[15:24] <aquarius> this is a katie question, I think. :)
[15:24] <popey> blaroche: i have sent you some feedback
[15:24] <nik90> aquarius: maybe send it as a design question?
[15:25] <popey> +1
[15:25] <nik90> aquarius: damn, I have been answering ur question all day :P
[15:25] <aquarius> nik90, that'd be a good idea, but it means I'll get an answer a week and a half from now, not now :)
[15:25] <blaroche> nik90: not mine. came from Martin Berube http://www.graphics-and-desktop-icons.com
[15:25] <blaroche> popey: thanks, i'll take a look at it
[15:26] <randomcpp> nik90, hey dude :)
[15:26] <nik90> randomcpp: hey, how are you? long time no see
[15:26] <aquarius> detailed guidance would be nice (and I shall submit a question to the app clinic), but I don't even have basic stuff like "how big should an icon be" and "does Ubuntu round off the corners or do I have to do it" :)
[15:26] <popey> randomcpp: manifest.json has an architecture field, yes
[15:26] <nik90> aquarius: true
[15:26] <randomcpp> popey, oh new stuff :)
[15:26] <nik90> aquarius: I think there are quite a number of people who have that question
[15:27] <randomcpp> nik90, fine, you? I know, I log in here, but I don't really work on my projects lately
[15:27] <randomcpp> university is killing my free time
[15:28] <daker> ogra_: http://phoboslab.org/log/2012/06/x-type-making-of (see Sound part)
[15:28] <randomcpp> popey, what's the right field name?
[15:28] <popey> alan@deep-thought:~/phablet/webapps/kindle$ grep arch *
[15:28] <popey> manifest.json:    "architecture": "all",
[15:28] <nik90> randomcpp: ah I can imagine..no worries
[15:28] <popey> like that?
[15:29] <randomcpp> popey, I don't even have a architecture field in my manifest actually
[15:29] <ogra_> daker, hmm, intresting, i wonder how other apps do it ... pumpkin smasher and blue blox 2 surely have sound for me
[15:30] <blaroche> popey: the app is C++ that loads QML in a signal binary compiled only for ARM, seems related to the feedback...  i'm unsure where to correct those errors
[15:32] <aquarius> question emailed to design team (and cced to popey) :)
[15:33] <popey> -!- katie [~katie@173.227.53.54] has quit [RUN AWAY FROM AQUARIUS]
[15:33] <aquarius> hey!
[15:33] <popey> ☻
[15:33] <randomcpp> popey, is organizationName required now?
[15:33] <nik90> lol
[15:33] <aquarius> the price of inventing a platform is either rigorous documentation or answering questions before the docs are completed :)
[15:38] <daker> ogra_: BB2 is using the Web Audio API but i guess the dev wants a more complex use case
[15:42] <ogra_> ah
[15:55] <PDilyard> I want to make an application that can be accessed from elsewhere on the network...how can i do this?
[16:03] <daker> ogra_: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2013/10/progress-report-on-cross-platform-open-web-apps/
[17:41] <randomcpp> popey, I hope this one is correct >.<
[17:42] <popey> randomcpp: sorry about the confusion with me approving the error'ed one
[17:42] <popey> too many buttons ☻

[17:42] <randomcpp> oh don't worry about that
[17:43] <randomcpp> it's me that I upload a billion of versions xD
[17:43] <randomcpp> how do you write that smile face? o.o
[17:44] <popey>     "security_policy_groups_safe (accounts)": "(MANUAL REVIEW) reserved policy group 'accounts': Can use Online Accounts. This policy group is reserved for vetted applications only in this version of the policy. Once LP: #1230091 is fixed, this can be moved out of reserved status."
[17:44] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1230091 in unity-mir "[enhancement] Window reparenting (required for appstore app trust model)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1230091
[17:45] <popey> thats the only error we have now
[17:46] <randomcpp> popey, is it ok, or do I have to remove it?
[17:47] <popey> good question!
[17:47] <popey> I am having difficulty parsing what jamie wrote
[17:47] <popey> whether it means you have to fix it now, or have to fix it once that bug is fixed
[17:47] <randomcpp> without that, I can't have sharing features
[17:48] <randomcpp> in my app
[17:50] <popey> randomcpp: have pinged jamie to get clarification
[17:50] <randomcpp> ok thanks
[17:54] <aquarius> I read that as "at the moment, you are not allowed to use Online Accounts from a third-party app; it is only allowed to be used by vetted apps. This is because of an LP bug; once the bug is fixed, this won't be the case, and third-party apps will be allowed to use Online Accounts"
[17:54] <aquarius> but what actually happens there depends on whether "vetted" means "examined line-by-line by the security team" or "popey says it's OK" ;)
[17:56] <aquarius> I think it's the former (or, more accurately, "vetted" means "written internally so we can safely trust that it's not doing anything bad"), because the bug implies that apps with access to online accounts can currently get online account data without the user knowing, and fixing that is what the bug's about.
[17:56] <aquarius> but I'd be interested in hearing from jdstrand whether that's a correct read of it :)
[18:48] <aquarius> popey, is it possible to record video of an app on the phone? th mirdumpfb thing takes ages to get one frame so I assume not...
[18:57] <popey> no
[19:14] <aquarius> that's what I thought
[19:14] <aquarius> popey, second question: can i prrovide an svg icon as my app icon and expect it to work everywhere, or does it need to be png?
[19:17] <popey> aquarius: you need to upload a 256x256 to the store
[19:17] <aquarius> orly? OK, that's useful, thank you
[19:17] <aquarius> do I need other sizes? Specifically, should I use that 256 icon as my app icon in the desktop file?
[19:18] <popey> 64x64 for the app IMO
[19:18] <popey> thats what I've been doing as I saw others do same
[19:18] <aquarius> that's a bit crap and small, isn't it? :(
[19:18]  * aquarius makes the build script create icons
[19:24] <Elleo> I have a feeling they're actually displayed at 128x128 in the launcher
[19:24] <davmor2> aquarius: you can add all 4 sizes the benefit of doing so is it will use the correct size where ever it is in use
[19:24] <aquarius> all four sizes? what are the four sizes? and where should I add them?
[19:25] <aquarius> davmor2, ^
[19:28] <davmor2> aquarius: 128x128px 	64x64px 	32x32px 	16x16px you add them to the applications details page on sca
[19:28] <aquarius> davmor2, oh! so not in the package, but in the upload
[19:28] <davmor2> aquarius: correct
[19:28] <aquarius> and I should use the 64 icon as my Icon=whatever in the desktop file
[19:29] <aquarius> yes?
[19:30] <davmor2> ah hang on
[19:35] <aquarius> davmor2, am hanging on :)
[19:35] <davmor2> aquarius: see pm
[19:38] <aquarius> seen :)
[19:38] <aquarius> ok! just waiting for the designer to find some reason to complain about something, and if he doesn't, I'll upload
[19:38] <AskUbuntu> Is it possible to update the app indicator from code? | http://askubuntu.com/q/367463
[20:18] <aquarius> he found something to complain about
[20:18] <aquarius> the icon is blurry in the Dash, and I do not understand why :(
[20:19] <aquarius> ooh!
[20:20] <aquarius> the damned blackjack bloke, with his clear icon, has an icon called blackjack64.png which is 144x134!!
[20:21] <a_muva> can someone tell me how can I make an application to be not turned off when phone is not in use. I like to listen to the music via mplayer/terminal, which works, but I can listen to it only until phone  screen is displayed. After screen is black mplayer stops working.
[20:22] <aquarius> ok, get stuffed davmor2, I'm using a higher-res icon ;)
[20:22] <Elleo> heh
[20:24] <Elleo> a_muva: you might be able to prevent suspend with powerd-cli
[20:24] <Elleo> for apps there's currently no way for them to request not to be suspended (ways to handle that are currently being discussed on the mailinglist if you're interested: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg04736.html)
[20:27] <aquarius> hahaha lovely clear icon.
[20:27]  * aquarius goes to upload page.
[20:29] <aquarius> oh!
[20:29] <aquarius> what's a "package name" in the upload process?
[20:30] <aquarius> it's not org.kryogenix.whatever
[20:30] <aquarius> what should I put there?
[20:30] <aquarius> davmor2, ?
[20:35] <a_muva> Elleo: thanks
[20:46] <aquarius> mhall119 or beuno or popey? What is the "package name" for my app?
[20:47] <aquarius> (and how do I find out what " the namespace you chose when you signed up on MyApps" is? I'm not sure whether I picked org.kryogenix or com.ubuntnu.developer.whatever)
[20:48] <popey> short name
[20:48] <popey> my namespace is com.popey, and my app name is something like bbcnews
[20:48] <Elleo> aquarius: if you go to the My Account page on MyApps it shows your domain (and lets you change it) iirc
[20:49] <Elleo> aquarius: https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/account/
[20:49] <aquarius> aha! so it does. org.kryogenix. Thank you Elleo
[20:50] <Elleo> no problem :)
[20:50] <aquarius> Elleo, do you know what a "package name" is, and what an "application name" is?
[20:50] <Elleo> pass
[20:50]  * aquarius sobs
[20:50] <aquarius> I fall at the first hurdle. Don't know what to enter on screen 1.
[20:50] <Elleo> I'd guess package name is com.kryogenix.myawesomegame and application name is myawesomegame
[20:51] <Elleo> but I might be completely wrong
[20:51] <aquarius> tha's what I thought
[20:51] <popey> Application name is the free text name
[20:51] <aquarius> but "package name" can't have dots in it.
[20:51] <popey> package name is the shortname
[20:51] <aquarius> "The package name for this application. Letters, numbers or hyphens allowed only."
[20:51] <aquarius> popey, what's a shortname?
[20:51] <Elleo> ah, so myawesomegame and "My Awesome Game"?
[20:51] <popey> e.g. bbcnews is package name
[20:52] <popey> application name is "BBC News Webapp"
[20:52] <aquarius> what? I thought the whole point of the org.kryogenix.thing stuff was to avoid having to have a short unique name for every package!
[20:52] <aquarius> so I can't create "news" and stop everyone else from doing so.
[20:52] <Elleo> aquarius: I'd guess it automatically appends the shortname to your namespace
[20:52] <Elleo> since the myapps thing knows your namespace from your account details
[20:52] <popey> aquarius: the package name is suffixed on your domain
[20:53] <popey> so you put bbcnews
[20:53] <aquarius> ok
[20:53] <popey> and it becomes com.popey.bbcnews
[20:53] <aquarius> thank you
[20:53] <aquarius> this is exceedingly not clear. :)
[20:53] <popey> I have pointed this out
[20:53] <Elleo> heh
[20:53] <aquarius> Should the tag line be in the form of a sentence? (That is: should it end with a full stop?)
[20:54] <aquarius> and is it different from "description" in manifest.json and "Comment" in whatever.desktop?
[21:00] <aquarius> heh. My icon isn't square. Oops. :)
[21:01] <aquarius> weird thing if you upload an icon and a screenshot and it rejects your icon, though: under screenshots you get an empty space with a "delete" chckbox next to it
[21:10] <aquarius> heh. Hardware requirements are "PC Only", and can't be changed.
[21:11]  * aquarius submits app for review!
[21:11] <aquarius> now to hope that someone's around to review it :)
[21:13] <Elleo> heh
[21:14] <Elleo> if it takes less than a week to be approved they're already beating Nokia's QA ;)
[21:15] <popey> i am
[21:16] <aquarius> yay popey!
[21:16] <Elleo> now we know who to buy beer to get our app reviews fast tracked ;)
[21:16] <aquarius> Elleo, I'll say this about the Ubuntu click review team: they are both fast and efficient at what they do
[21:16] <aquarius> Nokia they are not
[21:16] <aquarius> and it will be even better when most of this stuff is automated :0
[21:16] <Elleo> Nokia QA could be a nightmare at times :/
[21:16] <popey> approved
[21:16] <aquarius> woooo!
[21:17] <popey> randomcpp: approved
[21:17] <aquarius> gah!
[21:17] <Elleo> they rejected one of my apps because I happened to mention the open source apps for meego store on the app website :/
[21:17] <popey> wassup?
[21:17] <randomcpp> popey, great ;)
[21:17] <aquarius> the tagline and the description are both displayed in the Install screen
[21:17] <aquarius> so it repeats a sentence. :)
[21:18] <Elleo> despite apps for meego being allowed to use various nokia resources
[21:18] <popey> aquarius: i can unpublish so our millions of users dont see that glaring error if you like?
[21:18] <aquarius> am fixing it
[21:18] <Elleo> aquarius: what's it called?
[21:19] <aquarius> Elleo, Riddling
[21:19] <aquarius> fixed the error :)
[21:20] <popey> resubmitted?
[21:20] <aquarius> popey, didn't have to: that stuff's all in the metadata
[21:20] <popey> ahh
[21:20] <popey> iiiinteresting
[21:21] <aquarius> presumably once that whole submission website goes away and I can submit via API, that stuff will require a resubmission?
[21:21] <aquarius> but at the moment I do not. :)
[21:21] <popey> pass
[21:21] <aquarius> ok, now to write a blog post :)
[21:21]  * popey takes some screenshots
[21:23] <randomcpp> popey, does saucybacon still work on the phone?
[21:23]  * popey tests
[21:24] <randomcpp> (I haven't received mine yet :( )
[21:24] <popey> ☹
[21:25] <aquarius> g+ post is quicker, though, so done :)
[21:29] <popey> randomcpp: yes
[21:30] <randomcpp> good
[21:31] <popey> randomcpp: http://popey.com/~alan/phablet/device-2013-10-28-213025.png
[21:31] <popey> \o/
[21:31] <popey> nice work!
[21:31] <randomcpp> :D thank you!
[21:32] <Elleo> aquarius: installing :)
[21:32] <popey> aquarius: do you have an irc channel for the app?
[21:32] <popey> (if not, you should)
[21:32] <aquarius> aaaaaargh
[21:32] <popey> actually screw that, you should sell a book with cheats in it
[21:32] <aquarius> one of the clues gets clipped by the outside of the screen
[21:32] <aquarius> grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
[21:32] <randomcpp> I hope to have more time soon and my showdown prize (:P) to add new nice features ;)
[21:32]  * popey pokes mhall119 
[21:33] <popey> any idea where randomcpp's prize is?
[21:34] <Elleo> aquarius: I'm liking this :)
[21:35]  * aquarius grins. That's the idea :)
[21:35]  * aquarius rushes to test the fix and get it uploaded before anyone gets to the level with the clipped clue in it ;)
[21:35] <Elleo> heh
[21:36] <aquarius> how do I uninstall an app, popey?
[21:36] <aquarius> (other than sshing in and click removing it.)
[21:36] <popey> long press
[21:36] <aquarius> ah. I did that just now and it hung the phone!
[21:36] <aquarius> this time it woked :)
[21:53] <aquarius> popey, can I get another review?
[21:53] <aquarius> popey, can I get another review? I've uploaded a fix...
[21:53] <popey> sure
[21:54] <aquarius> thank you
[21:54] <aquarius> stupid brown-paper bag bug
[21:54] <aquarius> still, hopefully no-one will reach level 27 before this uploads ;)
[21:54] <aquarius> do click packages get upadted automaticaly?
[21:54] <popey> done
[21:54] <popey> if people open update-manager
[21:56] <Elleo> aquarius: not much danger of that, I'm stuck on 8 :P
[21:57] <aquarius> :)
[21:58] <aquarius> Elleo, if you get to level 27 and see a long number that's cut off, update the package.:)
[21:58] <aquarius> popey, thank you. i appreciate the quick handling :)
[21:59] <popey> aquarius: Every day I'm riddling ...   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ6zr6kCPj8#t=2m24s
[22:01] <aquarius> heh
[22:05] <aquarius> maybe I'll make that the theme music :)
[22:15] <aquarius> what does click install do if you run it on the desktop?
[22:15] <aquarius> does it work or totally fail? :)
[22:22] <randomcpp> good night guys
[22:23] <randomcpp> thanks popey for the help today :)
[22:23] <popey> randomcpp: no problem, any time
[22:23] <popey> aquarius: fail
[22:25] <aquarius> popey, k -- I was wondering how I could tell people to play Riddling on the desktop
[22:25] <aquarius> and also wondering how jonobacon managed to run karma machine on the desktop :)
[22:25] <popey> make a deb ☹
[22:25] <popey> well
[22:25] <aquarius> right. Not interested in making a deb, so that's out :)
[22:25] <popey> you can bzr branch
[22:26] <popey> and qmlscene
[22:26] <aquarius> and I can't check the code into bzr, because the actual code that I have has the answers in it ;)
[22:26] <popey> but click packages are currently as I understand it out of scope according to cjw
[22:26] <popey> qtc can make a deb for it
[22:26] <aquarius> I don't really want to check only *some* of the code into bzr, because then it's not really the code you need to build the app.
[22:27] <aquarius> I can't use qtc, 'cos I can't add custom build steps -- that's why I had to write my own build script :(
[22:27] <popey> submit it to software centre, then you can link to it
[22:29] <aquarius> I'd bundle it all up into a single executable thing, but then I'd have to say "and you need the ubuntu sdk installed, and qtmultimedia-5, and, and, and"
[22:30] <aquarius> all the stuff that click stops me having to think about :)
[22:31] <aquarius> popey, if saucybacon has been updated, why isn't it showing for me in update manager?
[22:31] <popey> oh really?
[22:32] <aquarius> hrm
[22:32] <popey> ah well
[22:32] <popey> its up to the dev to publish it
[22:32] <aquarius> I thought I'd try and find out which version I have of it
[22:32] <popey> click list
[22:32] <aquarius> and...I long press on it....
[22:32] <popey> he hasn't published
[22:32] <aquarius> and I just get "Error" in the Dash, a button saying "Close", and one saying "Open"
[22:32] <aquarius> :)
[22:32] <popey> nice
[22:32] <aquarius> that seems unideal :)
[22:32] <popey> bugs welcome
[22:33] <popey> tell me the answer to 7 and I'll file it for you
[22:33] <popey> i have the same
[22:34] <popey> aquarius: http://popey.com/~alan/phablet/device-2013-10-28-223349.png like that?
[22:34] <popey> 404 not found
[22:34] <aquarius> yep!
[22:34] <popey> (if you scroll up)
[22:34] <aquarius> aaaah
[22:34] <aquarius> so the version I had was removed from the store?
[22:34] <popey> ah, yes
[22:34] <aquarius> also: does that mean that I can't browse details of software I've *already installed* without an internet connection?
[22:34]  * popey fixes this
[22:35] <aquarius> that seems a bit off.
[22:35] <popey> no, its a slightly broken situation here
[22:35] <popey> which ordinarily wouldn't happen
[22:35] <aquarius> ah, OK :)
[22:35] <popey> right, give it 2 mins and try update manager again
[22:35] <popey> or try now
[22:35] <popey> and see what you get
[22:38] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/phablet/device-2013-10-28-223814.png  woop woop
[22:43] <aquarius> OK, saucybacon now shows in update manager!
[22:43] <aquarius> however, so do three other apps, with update buttons, and I updated them an hour ago :)
[22:44] <aquarius> running saucybacon: white screen :(
[22:56] <popey> aquarius: odd, works here
[22:57] <aquarius> I'll uninstall and reinstall, I think
[22:57] <popey> application-click-com.ubuntu.developer.gcollura.saucybacon_saucybacon_1.0.11.log in ~/.cache/upstart might be interesting
[22:57] <aquarius> ahaha!
[22:58] <aquarius> now it works
[22:58] <aquarius> says "No recipes"
[22:58] <aquarius> I assume I can poke a thing to make it update
[22:59] <aquarius> but I have to wait for Friends to stop occupying the top third of my screen with twitter popups first.
[22:59] <popey> tap toolbar at top
[22:59] <popey> choose search
[23:00] <aquarius> ya, that works
[23:00] <popey> I suspect you wil get a lot of use out of this
[23:00] <aquarius> am now reading abot mustard chicken
[23:00] <aquarius> I will indeed
[23:00] <aquarius> I was highly irritated that it didn't work :)
[23:00] <aquarius> ah, the front page with "No recipes!" is actually for *saved* recipes, is it?
[23:00] <popey> yes
[23:01] <aquarius> I should give randomcpp some UX feedback on that, then :)
[23:01] <popey> it should probably start on the saved tab imo
[23:01] <popey> yeah
[23:01] <aquarius> randomcpp, ping
[23:01] <aquarius> oh, not onlne
[23:01] <aquarius> nm then :)
[23:01] <popey> 22:22:53 < randomcpp> good night guys
[23:01] <popey> 22:23:36 -!- randomcpp [~random@host203-222-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[23:01] <popey> but I agree, it should start on search if there are no saved recipes
[23:02]  * popey sleeps