[00:46] <elopio> hey, can somebody help me with the app I'm packaging with click?
[00:46] <elopio> I don't understand why it's not showing the icon.
[00:47] <elopio> here's the desktop file: https://github.com/goldenratio/xbmc-web-remote/blob/master/res/ubuntu_click/xbmcwebremote.desktop
[09:49] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Internet Day! :-D
[09:52] <t1mp> every day is internet day ;)
[09:54] <JamesTait> t1mp, tell that to my phone. ;)
[10:09] <zsombi> t1mp: ready for a review?
[10:14] <aquarius> elopio, that desktop file mentions an icon but there's no icon in the folder?zsombi
[10:15] <aquarius> er. Not sure why that said zsombi on the end. Sorry about that zsombi :)
[10:15] <zsombi> aquarius: ;) np
[11:20] <aquarius> heh, davidcalle has made it to level 10 of Riddling :)
[11:23] <ogra_> you mean your app calls home and tells you ?
[11:32] <AskUbuntu> How to Install PySide and Qt Editor on Ubuntu 13.10 | http://askubuntu.com/q/367815
[11:33] <davidcalle> Why is level 10's answer not Eugene Cernan, WHY? It all makes sense!
[11:35] <davidcalle> ogra_, oh no, I'm just complaining to him on G+ :)
[11:35] <ogra_> haha
[11:35]  * ogra_ thought so, i wasnt serious above 
[12:09] <aquarius> oh!
[12:09] <aquarius> ha! bug.
[12:09] <aquarius> davidcalle is right and I am wrong. :)
[12:18]  * aquarius uploads version 1.2 and waits for review
[12:18] <aquarius> when davidcalle comes back, tell him that he had it right and he should hit update manager to get a new version of Riddling ;)
[12:20] <daker> popey: congrats :) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24722440
[12:21] <aquarius> ogra_, I could have made Riddling call home, but I decided not to. Having analytics for Ubuntu apps would be a useful thing, though; that's on my list of "stuff I want to experiment with in Ubuntu apps", along with "ads" :)
[12:21] <ogra_> :)
[12:21] <aquarius> Riddling was going to have an ad in it to experiment with that, but the screen layout didn't work perfectly with it so I kicked that off to the next project. :)
[12:31] <aquarius> who can review submitted apps other than popey?
[12:31] <aquarius> beuno is asleep, I imagine
[12:36] <aquarius> submitted it 23 minutes ago and still not reviewed! this is like Apple levels of review delay!
[12:36] <aquarius> :-)
[12:36] <aquarius> not really, btw. :)
[12:37] <ogra_> yeah, popey is such a slacker :P
[12:54]  * popey glares at ogra_ 
[12:55] <popey> aquarius: approved
[12:55] <aquarius> thank you, popey!
[12:55] <aquarius> you are not a slacker
[12:55] <popey> around 1 min after I found out about it ☻
[12:56]  * ogra_ grins
[12:56] <aquarius> I am still waiting for ogra_ to make an arm laptop with Ubuntu on that I can actually buy ;)
[12:56] <popey> yeah, ogra_ , you slacker
[12:56]  * ogra_ will happily sell you one of the spare ac100's 
[12:56] <aquarius> popey, mild concern: you do an excellent job here, but who else is on the case if you spend half an hour with a pie or somethnig?
[12:57] <popey> aquarius: plenty
[12:57]  * ogra_ hugs popey 
[12:57] <popey> i think there's maybe 10 people on the team who can
[12:57] <ogra_> popey, dont try image 7 btw
[12:57] <ogra_> adb broken ...
[12:57] <popey> oh good
[12:58] <ogra_> fix is in proposed ... i'll roll #8 right after it went in
[12:58] <aquarius> popey, you seem to be the one doing the lion's share of it, though :)
[12:58] <popey> swings and roundabouts
[12:59] <popey> some days I do none, and others do, it's not a massive problem IMO
[12:59] <aquarius> beuno, ping about download URLs for click packages: do they require authentication? Specifically, can the website for any app I release link directly to the click package download URL provided by the store itself, if I want to allow click package downloads?
[12:59] <ogra_> well, wait until the throughput rises ...
[12:59] <aquarius> popey, cool, if you're happy then no worries. Also once manual review goes away entirely for simple apps, this will be even better
[12:59] <popey> then we automate it ☻
[12:59] <ogra_> heh
[13:00] <popey> which is always the plan
[13:00] <popey> automate, automate, automate
[13:00] <ogra_> ++
[13:00] <popey> I mean, it's what we did with ogra_ after all. He's clearly a clone
[13:00] <ogra_> lol
[13:00] <aquarius> no actual human can drink whiskey that way, so I believe you :)
[13:00] <ogra_> LOL
[13:00] <ogra_> asac can
[13:01] <popey> another clone!
[13:01] <ogra_> haha
[13:01] <aquarius> asac is a robot from the planet Zanussi
[13:02] <ogra_> zanussi ? wasnt that a tea kettle designer ?
[13:02]  * aquarius grins
[13:02] <ogra_> ah, no, that was alessi
[13:05] <aquarius> and good; level 10 now fixed. :)
[13:08] <nik90> charles: I installed the latest indicator-datetime package in trusty image #6 to test the snap decision
[13:08] <nik90> charles: but I do not see it being triggered
[13:08] <nik90> charles: also the alarms are not being listed in the indicator
[13:08] <popey> \o/ clear dashboard
[13:08] <nik90> charles: did it work for you?
[13:13]  * ogra_ hugs popey 
[13:14]  * ogra_ has another 10 news site webapps ... but finding icons for them is always so time consuming 
[13:14] <popey> \o/
[13:14]  * ogra_ wishes we could automate *that*
[13:14] <ogra_> i finally wrote a scritp that generates everything but the icon
[13:15] <davmor2> popey: you don't announce you have a clear dashboard that's a sure way to get work added to your queue that you weren't expecting ;)
[13:15] <popey> hah
[13:15] <popey> ogra_: is the script called "fill_the_app_store.sh" or "make_popey_busy.sh"?
[13:15] <ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6323890/ in case anyone is intrested
[13:16] <ogra_> hmm, i havent found a proper name yet ...
[13:22] <popey> webapp-in-ator
[13:26] <ogra_> heh, good one
[13:37] <aquarius> ogra_, check to see whether the news site has provided an apple-touch-icon in the meta tags. If it hasn't, fetch the favicon.
[13:38] <ogra_> aquarius, well, i need a 256x256 one
[13:38] <ogra_> i usually just do a google picture search and then gimp it to the right size
[13:39] <aquarius> ogra_, *ideally* you do. In practice, maybe not. And there's nothing stopping you centering the apple -touch-icon or favicon in a 256x256 square
[13:39] <aquarius> it's not perfect, but equally it'd be scriptable, and then you can fix thm later
[13:39] <ogra_> hmm
[13:39] <ogra_> i'll check that, thanks !
[13:39] <aquarius> It is not at all clear to me that producing a zillion "web apps" which do *nothing* to integrate those apps with Ubuntu is actually a useful use of your time or my phone, though :)
[13:40] <aquarius> web apps which integrate nicely -- new news articles show up in the messaging menu, for example -- are a good idea
[13:40] <aquarius> things which are literally just a bookmark, not so much. Just use bookmarks in the browser for that :)
[13:40] <ogra_> aquarius, bookmarks are completely unusable
[13:41] <ogra_> i want to have all my news sites open and be able to flick through them with a swipe
[13:41] <ogra_> did you ever try to switch tabs in the browser ?
[13:41] <aquarius> the browser could certainly be better
[13:42] <ogra_> (on maguro it takes even 30sec until the activities show up when tapping the icon)
[13:42] <aquarius> but I'm not sure that having 90% of the store just be bookmarks is useful :(
[13:42] <ogra_> thats not different from android
[13:42] <ogra_> all the the webapp "bookmarks" have an equivalent in the play store
[13:43] <davmor2> aquarius: v1 a bookmark, v2 integration, v3 a full qml version, v4 world domination, v5 take on the universe ;)
[13:43] <ogra_> i might stop before v3 :)
[13:44] <davmor2> ogra_: I didn't say you had to do it :)
[13:44] <aquarius> I honestly think that if you skip v1 and start with v2 for everything, progress will be slower but the created things will be infinitely more valuable
[13:44] <aquarius> both as apps and for the platform as a whole
[13:45] <ogra_> i dont see what integration a mobile website could have ... they definitely all dont have any extra integration in android or ios
[13:45] <aquarius> "woah! I installed the heise.de app on my Ubuntu phone and it told me when there were new messages! cool!"
[13:45] <ogra_> at least the ones i packaged up to now
[13:45] <ogra_> if i would want that i'd use a proper rss reader
[13:45] <ogra_> (which we dont have yet)
[13:45] <aquarius> versus "I installed the heise.de 'app' but it just opens heise.de, and it's not even in the actual browser so I can't bookmark things, send links to people, or save images"
[13:46] <ogra_> right, the same as on all other mobile OSes for the heise app
[13:46] <davmor2> ogra_: I thought that was what shorts was
[13:46] <ogra_> davmor2, do you use it ?
[13:46]  * ogra_ tried for a week ... and gave up
[13:47] <davmor2> ogra_: I do for planet ubuntu
[13:47] <ogra_> it looks shiny ... but having 20 rss sources in it makes it pretty unusable
[13:47] <aquarius> ogra_, "just as crap as everyone else!" is not a very good slogan ;)
[13:47] <ogra_> unless you dont care if everything is just randomly shuffled together
[13:48] <ogra_> aquarius, heise announced to do a review of UTouch soon ... lets see what they say once they discover it
[13:48] <Elleo> I have to agree with aquarius, any time I install an "app" on another platform and it turns out to just be a straigt wrapper around the website or an rss feed I pretty much instantly delete it and go back to using a proper browser
[13:48] <Elleo> straight*
[13:48] <ogra_> Elleo, right, thats up to you indeed
[13:48] <davmor2> ogra_: just use lists view instead
[13:49] <aquarius> ogra_, that'll be a useful test! If they don't notice it at all, then the apps scope needs fixing. If they discover it and complain that it's just a bookmark, you owe me a pint ;)
[13:49] <ogra_> Elleo, i like to switch between my sites easily without having to jump through hoops as i have to in the rowser currently
[13:49] <aquarius> if they discover it and think it's great, then I will of course complain that the test was fixed :P
[13:49] <ogra_> *browser
[13:49] <Elleo> ogra_: that's an argument for improving the browser though
[13:49] <Elleo> I liked the harmattan way of handling bookmarks which was to allow you to turn bookmarks into icons on the normal app launcher
[13:49] <ogra_> Elleo, right, i'll happily remove the "apps" again once it became usable
[13:50] <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity8/+bug/1245890
[13:50] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1245890 in Unity 8 "Pinning to launcher followed by upgrade, breaks pinned app link" [Undecided,New]
[13:50] <popey> FYI aquarius ^^
[13:50] <aquarius> ogra_, I totally see your argument about swiping through, but that's an argument that nnidividual browser tabs ought to be treated as separate top level apps, not that we should actually *make* top level apps :)
[13:50] <Elleo> so they always load in a full browser, but are as quick to get hold of as any app
[13:53] <ogra_> aquarius, well, i know the heise "app" (which is identical to what i did on android and ios) is one of the most installed android apps in germany ...
[13:53] <aquarius> heh.
[13:53] <ogra_> same for the tagesschau one ... (that adds a bit of extra CSS on top vs the plain mobile website though)
[13:54] <ogra_> (or the n-tv.de one)
[13:55] <ogra_> the play store is full of them and people are used to them
[13:56]  * ogra_ will have no prob to wipe something (creating that stuff takes nearly no time so nothign is lost) if someone comes up with a proper app 
[13:56] <ogra_> until then i think they are nice placeholders for people coming from the other OSes to find what they are used to
[13:57] <aquarius> I suppooooooooooooooooooooooose
[13:57] <aquarius> I can see the argument, don't worry :)
[13:57] <ogra_> :)
[13:58] <aquarius> might be worth you superimposing the icon over the browser globe icon or something so it's clear?
[13:58] <ogra_> well, but tthen it isnt familiar to people anymore
[13:59] <ogra_> i clearly say "this is a WebApp showing the mobile website of "foo"" in the description
[13:59] <ogra_> if people dont read, its up to them :P
[14:01]  * aquarius grins
[14:01] <aquarius> fair argument :)
[14:06]  * popey tickles Elleo with amazon ☻
[14:06] <ogra_> haha
[14:08] <ogra_> davmor2, wrt RSS reader i'm still waiting for ramsamsam to work properly ... it looks like it could fulfill my needs better
[14:09] <Elleo> popey: got it working?
[14:10] <Elleo> or are you making a point about my hypocracy? ;)
[14:11] <elopio> aquarius: the icon is copied from the src/icons directory by the ant package_ubuntu_click_app task: https://github.com/goldenratio/xbmc-web-remote/blob/master/build.xml
[14:11] <elopio> I've made sure that when the app is installed, the png is on /opt next to the .desktop and .qml files.
[14:11] <aquarius> elopio, so in the final package, the icon that's referred to is in the same place? ought to work, then :)
[14:12] <aquarius> elopio, so, I don't know, sorry :)
[14:12] <elopio> aquarius: are there any restrinctions about the size of the png?
[14:12] <aquarius> elopio, nope. Mine's 256x256
[14:12] <Elleo> in my defense Erudite does a lot more than just wrapping the reader site, it adds features the official browser doesn't support, fixes loads of CSS and injects extra javascript to make it usable on a small screen and binds the volume keys to page turns :P
[14:12] <aquarius> I've seen others at 64x64 or 144x144
[14:13] <elopio> aquarius: ok, should work then. Maybe it's a problem on my phone. I'll ask for volunteers to install it :)
[14:14] <davmor2> ogra_: I found the list view was much faster as a general reader and clumped everything together by feed :)  But I'm also with you in that is isn't the best especially on a maguro
[14:15] <elopio> hey, maybe it's the way I'm installing the click package manually.
[14:15] <ogra_> i guess once it does stop killing the backgrounded apps randomly it will start to get better
[14:15] <elopio> how should I install a .click on the phone?
[14:15] <ogra_> pkcon install-local /path/to/*.click
[14:15] <ogra_> (as phablet user)
[14:15] <Elleo> ogra_: not killing background apps is definitely something we can agree on ;)
[14:16] <ogra_> well, i wouldnt mind if it killed them "secretly" as designed ... sadly it doesnt
[14:17] <ogra_> the design says they can be killed but will save their state, so if cou flick to the app it should just restart exactly where you left it off
[14:17] <Elleo> ah, that's still a problem for my uses
[14:17] <ogra_> i guess thats a flaw in the browser that it cant do that
[14:18] <Elleo> as I want to be either playing music in one app, or communicating with a peripheral in another, which need to be constantly running things
[14:18] <ogra_> the idea is that this is completely transparent to the user afaik ... the thumbnail stays so you dontt really notice it was killed
[14:18] <popey> Elleo: neither, not had a chance to look yet
[14:18] <Elleo> ah, okay :P
[14:18] <Elleo> just me being overly defensive then
[14:18] <popey> just hoping if I mention it often enough you'll port it ㋛
[14:19] <Elleo> so I can get more angry emails from Amazon lawyers? :/
[14:19] <popey> \o/
[14:19] <Elleo> howabout I port it and you take the "credit" ;)
[14:19] <ogra_> lol
[14:19] <popey> sure
[14:19]  * popey changes his email address to sil@kryogenix.org
[14:19] <Elleo> you might be able to do a straight compilation of Erudite on Ubuntu Touch actually
[14:19] <Elleo> well, after updating slightly to Qt5
[14:20] <Elleo> I'll have a poke at it tongiht
[14:20] <Elleo> tonight*
[14:20]  * popey hugs Elleo 
[14:20] <elopio> hum, still no icon.
[14:21] <popey> daker: not sure why I should be congratulated! ☻
[14:21] <elopio> can somebody please install this .click package? http://ubuntuone.com/3JrbtQJhGdm0GcAKfuAHER
[14:22] <Elleo> aquarius: not sure if it's specific to Riddling, but if the phone goes to sleep with the text box focused then you have to switch to another tab and back before you can get the keyboard up again
[14:22] <aquarius> Elleo, I don't think that's my bug specifically. The keyboard is weird and unreliable ;(
[14:22] <aquarius> sometimes you can't get it to show up at all :(
[14:24] <Elleo> aquarius: ah, okay
[14:24] <elopio> davmor2: do you have a spare hand? ^
[14:26] <aquarius> popey, wtf? I have to turn on copy and paste??
[14:26] <aquarius> I can't think for the life of me why this wold be an app-specific setting
[14:26] <ogra_> "turn on" ?
[14:26] <davmor2> elopio: say what now
[14:26] <ogra_> i thought we dont support that yet
[14:26] <aquarius> ogra_, that's what I thought too, but popey says that he thinks it works in some apps
[14:27] <popey> Elleo:     "desktop_Exec (xbmcwebremote)": "absolute path '/usr/bin/qmlscene $@ xbmcwebremote.qml' for Exec given in .desktop file."
[14:27] <elopio> davmor2: can you please install this on the device and tell me if it shows the icon? http://ubuntuone.com/3JrbtQJhGdm0GcAKfuAHER
[14:27] <popey> oops
[14:27] <popey> elopio:     "desktop_Exec (xbmcwebremote)": "absolute path '/usr/bin/qmlscene $@ xbmcwebremote.qml' for Exec given in .desktop file."
[14:27] <popey> you need to fix that
[14:27] <ogra_> aquarius, the popup for it surely works
[14:27] <ogra_> aquarius, but i dont think there is any storing for the copied text going on yet
[14:28] <ogra_> so paste is a no-op
[14:28] <elopio> popey: how should it be? I don't get where's the error from that message.
[14:28] <popey> from your desktop file
[14:28] <popey> you need to not specify a path to qmlscene or your qml file as with confinement they can be in a relocated directory
[14:28] <ogra_> just qmlscene  instead of  /usr/bin/qmlscene
[14:29] <elopio> got it!
[14:29] <popey> also, run your click package through https://launchpad.net/click-reviewers-tools
[14:30] <elopio> popey: will do.
[14:33] <Elleo> popey: ah, that's handy
[14:34] <aquarius> mhall119, you may know this question that I directed at beuno. Download URLs for click packages: do they require authentication? Specifically, can the website for any app I release link directly to the click package download URL provided by the store itself, if I want to allow click package downloads?
[14:35] <aquarius> Elleo, it totally is handy. I have integrated it into my build process
[14:38] <davmor2> elopio: I thought it got the icon from SCA not the actual app now, aquarius did you get to the bottom of it in the end?
[14:40] <aquarius> davmor2, I did: the icon you provide in the package is used by the Dash, and it should not be a 64x64 icon, it should be higher resolution than that. (Mine is 256x256; I have seen others at 144x144). I have emailed the design team for App Clinic feedback asking many questions about icons, including what size and format they ought to be :)
[14:41] <davmor2> elopio: ^
[14:41] <popey> aquarius: yes, they do require auth
[14:41] <popey> you cannot unauthenticatedly download a click package
[14:42] <aquarius> popey, darn. So if I want someone to download the click package (which is relatively pointless right now since they can't be *used* on the desktop, but I dislike somethnig being totally unavailable) then I have to host my own copy on my website (which is what I've done with riddling).
[14:42] <popey> ya
[15:15] <aquarius> cheers
[15:36] <bzoltan> popey: ping
[15:36] <popey> bzoltan: yo
[15:37] <bzoltan> popey: I need all available click packages (preferable with qml source) :)
[15:37] <popey> one moment
[15:37] <bzoltan> popey: I would like to make a script to check API usage and plugin dependencies
[15:43] <popey> bzoltan: pm....
[18:09] <aquarius> davidcalle, ping
[18:10] <davidcalle> aquarius, pong
[18:11] <aquarius> davidcalle, pm :)
[18:21] <iBelieve> mhall119, Any news on when I can expect feedback for my Showdown app, Ubuntu Tasks? I'd like to see the feedback so I can work on making my app better than ever :)
[18:32] <iBelieve> mhall119, ping
[21:52] <randomcpp> hi guys
[21:55] <randomcpp> mhall119, ping
[22:08] <aquarius> ooh, randomcpp, would you like a little feedback on saucybacon?
[22:08] <randomcpp> aquarius, yeah sure :D
[22:08] <aquarius> randomcpp, firstly: it is cool. I love recipe apps. I've already made one thing from it :)
[22:09] <randomcpp> awesome :)
[22:09]  * nik90 is enjoying saucyBacon every day..thanx randomcpp 
[22:09] <aquarius> randomcpp, but I was pretty confused when I first started it: it says "Recipes", but there are no recipes.
[22:09] <aquarius> I have to go to search.
[22:09] <aquarius> The "Recipes" tab is for *saved* recipes
[22:09] <aquarius> by definition when I first start the app I won't have any saved recipes, so that tab will always be blank
[22:09] <randomcpp> nik90, aquarius you make me happy :)
[22:09] <aquarius> I think you should make Search be the first tab. :)
[22:10] <aquarius> and rename "Recipes" to "Saved" or similar.
[22:10] <randomcpp> nice spot!
[22:10] <randomcpp> thanks for the advice, maybe I'll add a sort of tutor on first start
[22:11] <randomcpp> it shouldn't be hard
[22:14] <randomcpp> aquarius, if you find any other bug or weird behavior or anything related, please report an issue here -> https://github.com/random-cpp/saucybacon/issues
[22:14] <randomcpp> anything you don't like :) I'll be happy to listen to you
[22:16] <aquarius> randomcpp, other than the total confusion when I first started the app, I think it's lovely :)
[22:16] <randomcpp> nik90, do you have any news on my prize delivering? :/
[22:17] <randomcpp> aquarius, report this too, so I'll remember to work on it :p
[22:17] <randomcpp> thanks a lot :)
[22:19] <aquarius> https://github.com/random-cpp/saucybacon/issues/7 filed
[22:19] <randomcpp> aquarius, thanks again!
[22:45] <mhall119> randomcpp: pong
[22:47] <randomcpp> mhall119, sorry if I'm hassling you, do you have any news on prizes delivery?
[22:48] <mhall119> randomcpp: yes, I need to get address labels and then run them to the FedEx store, but I have them, they're flashed and the apps installed
[22:50] <randomcpp> mhall119, oh ok :) I though they were lost during the expedition somewhere in an unknown place :)
[22:50] <iBelieve> randomcpp, congratulations on winning!
[22:50] <randomcpp> iBelieve, oh thank you! :)
[22:52] <randomcpp> mhall119, thanks for the good news, now I go to bed, goodnight everyone! :)