[00:05] <diddledan> Azelphur: eep - at least you have plenty of rams
[00:05] <Azelphur> xD
[00:05] <diddledan> coar, you need moar cores :-p
[00:06] <diddledan> are there just 32 players on that machine or are you multitenanting?
[00:06] <Azelphur> diddledan: full on pretty much all servers
[00:06] <Azelphur> diddledan: live stats at http://game.azelphur.com/ :)
[00:07] <ali1234> that's the second time i've seen a screenshot like that today
[00:07] <Azelphur> haha
[00:07] <ali1234> what top program is that?
[00:07] <Azelphur> ali1234: we are running at about 4x normal traffic
[00:07] <Azelphur> htop
[00:08] <diddledan> htop is awesome
[00:08] <ali1234> i'm guessing if you had a problem with memory leaks you'd just ask here, rather than complain about it on reddit :)
[00:08] <Azelphur> 420 players online...new record by far
[00:08] <Azelphur> \o/
[00:08] <diddledan> I miss it whenever it's not installed
[00:10] <ali1234> i guess you could say you were... on the ball
[01:18] <ali1234> google.com/+AlistairBuxton
[01:19] <ali1234> anyone else get an invite for a custom url?
[02:33] <Azelphur> http://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/1phq3r/imgur_on_iwf_again_with_talktalk_this_time/
[02:33] <Azelphur> wasn't just me earlier :(
[07:06] <Myrtti> Azelphur: that would explain things
[07:22] <knightwise> morning everyone
[07:23] <diddledan> moo
[07:26] <knightwise> hey diddledan
[07:26] <knightwise> how are ya today
[07:30] <diddledan> ello.. not bad ta
[07:31] <knightwise> hmm.. gonna see if i can find a way to setup a command line based bittorrent client toay
[07:34] <MartijnVdS> apt-get install rtorrent
[07:34] <MartijnVdS> done!
[07:34] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: you can have the rest of the day off now :P
[07:35] <knightwise> rtorrent ? Does it eat magnet links ?
[07:36] <MartijnVdS> according to the googles, it does
[07:36] <knightwise> ok , gonna have a look at it
[07:37] <MartijnVdS> the interface takes a bit of getting used to ;)
[07:48] <dubaco_1> hej, i am looking for how to file a network manager bug? it cuts out if i close the lid and when i open it will not allow me networking back, even auto eth0 - nothing ingeting denada...
[08:56] <AlanBell> dubaco_1: that doesn't sound like a network manager bug to me
[08:57] <AlanBell> network manager is the GUI bit that configures networking, that sounds more low level
[08:57] <AlanBell> however, if you go to a terminal (when you do have networking) and type "ubuntu-bug network-manager" then you can file your bug
[08:58] <AlanBell> someone will reassign it to the kernel or something if it is more appropriate there
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: the backend network-manager daemon might be getting confused
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> you can check if that's it by manually configuring the network
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> and/or checking the (kernel) logs -- if it can't get a device back up, it'll say so
[09:08] <mungbean> what does "sync app data" do on android in the accounts&sync settings?
[09:17] <dwatkins> I thought it turned on and off stuff like whether to download new e-mails to the phone.
[09:17] <dwatkins> The fact you're asking the question suggests this might not be the case, however, mungbean.
[09:20] <mungbean> i dunno, they don't say.
[09:20] <dwatkins> I sometimes find on my 7.2 phone that it's decided to stop synchronising e-mail.
[09:20] <mungbean> since switching from activesync to imap for my work mail, i've burned through all my 3g data @ 10mb per day , where previously was 1mb per day if i was lucky
[09:20] <dwatkins> Sorry, Cyanogenmod 7.2, i.e. Gingerbread
[09:20] <mungbean> and i don't sync the imap email
[09:21] <dwatkins> I havn't kept an eye on data usage as mine's unlimited with Three.
[09:21] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Orthopaedic Nurses Day! :-D
[09:21] <dwatkins> It amuses me that my watch notifies me of new e-mail, so I have that switched on.
[09:21] <dwatkins> Merry haloween eve, JamesTait
[09:22] <JamesTait> dwatkins, indeed.  Just got the decorations out of the loft. \o/
[09:22] <dwatkins> o.O
[09:22] <dwatkins> Oh, haloween ones, sorry - thought you were talking about christmas decorations (!)
[09:23] <JamesTait> dwatkins, now, there's no call for that kind of language! :-P
[09:23] <dwatkins> Apologising on IRC, or mentioning the 25th of December? ;)
[09:24] <JamesTait> dwatkins, well, both.  ;)
[09:25]  * dwatkins starts typing an apology then stops
[09:25] <JamesTait> Heh!
[09:25] <mungbean> every time i start trying to use multiple virtual desktops, after a week they all end up on the desktop1
[09:26] <JamesTait> dwatkins, your watch notifies you of new e-mail?
[09:27] <dwatkins> JamesTait: yeah, it's a Pebble
[09:27] <JamesTait> That is definitely the kind of pointless gimmick I'd enable just for kicks. :)
[09:28] <dwatkins> JamesTait: indeed, it'll also tell me when I get a phone call or an SMS, and more importantly allows me to control what music I'm listening to ;)
[09:28] <dwatkins> details here https://getpebble.com/
[09:28] <JamesTait> Whenever I hear somene refer to the Pepple, I always imagine someone with a small stone sundial attached to their wrist.
[09:28] <JamesTait> *Pebble
[09:28] <dwatkins> There's a cycling app, but it doesn't seem to work at the moment, it should show my speed and distance travelled etc.
[09:29] <MartijnVdS> "The Pebble, it rocks"?
[09:29] <JamesTait> dwatkins, does it tell the time?
[09:29] <dwatkins> badum tschhhhh
[09:29] <mungbean> my pebble is bricked
[09:29] <MartijnVdS> too easy :)
[09:29] <dwatkins> JamesTait: yeah, there are loads of clock faces, my favourite is the binary one with three columns
[09:29] <JamesTait> mungbean, stop it!  If my wife hears me laughing out loud, she won't believe I'm working!
[09:42] <popey> Morning
[09:43] <SpookyMa1t> morning Alan
[10:08] <ixxvil> hi
[10:09] <dwatkins> Is it just me being overly paranoid, or do most other people check the URL when typing in a password just to make certain you're actually on the site you think you should be?
[10:09] <dwatkins> (checking for https makes sense, and is now second nature)
[10:10] <ixxvil> to install recommended security updates only
[10:10] <ixxvil> i just do a apt-get upgrade or dist-upgrade?
[10:10] <ixxvil> or  sudo unattended-upgrade?
[10:11] <dwatkins> security updates, ixxvil? oh right, you're asking a separate question, sorry.
[10:11] <ixxvil> oh ye
[10:11] <ixxvil> sorry
[10:12] <dwatkins> no worries, your 2nd and 3rd lines made that clear, I was just confused for a moment ;)
[10:12] <BigRedS> ixxvil: unattended-upgrades is a package that configures apt to routinely download and install updates
[10:13] <BigRedS> it can be itself configured to automatically apply only security patches or all updates
[10:13] <BigRedS> but it's not an apt command, it's a package
[10:14] <ixxvil> so what is the recommended way to only update security packages?
[10:14] <ixxvil> ive got like 71 pkgs in total that needs updating and 35 are security
[10:16] <MartijnVdS> ixxvil: On a server or the desktop?
[10:16] <ixxvil> server
[10:16] <MartijnVdS> ixxvil: apt-get upgrade, usually, unless there's a kernel, then dist-upgrade
[10:17] <ixxvil> wont apt-get upgrade install everything
[10:17] <ixxvil> i just want only the recommended ones
[10:17] <MartijnVdS> If updates exist for your version of Ubuntu, they're all recommended :)
[10:18] <MartijnVdS> they don't do "new versions" lightly in existing releases, because that might introduce more bugs than it fixces
[10:20] <ixxvil> right but i just did apt-get upgrade
[10:20] <ixxvil> and i see pkgs that make no sense nor do i use them
[10:20] <ixxvil> like firefox-local-en?
[10:20] <MartijnVdS> ixxvil: like?
[10:20] <MartijnVdS> that's the English translation of firefox?
[10:20] <ixxvil> ye im not using firefox
[10:20] <MartijnVdS> "apt-cache rdepends firefox-local-en" shows what depends on it
[10:21] <ixxvil> k
[10:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> I wonder if chrisccoulson knows when there'll be an update to Thunderbird? recent Lighting patches to fix Google CalDAV do not work on 24.0...
[10:21] <BigRedS> ixxvil: depends who is recommending :) I'd always reccomend configuring unattended-upgrades since otherwise I never get around to doing them manually
[10:21] <ixxvil> right i just want to find a way to update only security stuff now n then
[10:21] <ixxvil> without having to do the whle thing
[10:22] <BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: broken google CalDav, is it relatively quietly broken? Because I think mine's working (13.10) but it might not be CalDav and I'm trying to work out if missing appointments are my having not made them or Tbird having not uploaded them
[10:22] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: I don't trust unattended-upgrades.. I have several machines with u-a installed that *don't* actually upgrade
[10:22] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: ooh, debian or ubuntu? I think all that I've set u-a up on are debian, and I get billions of emails from them :)
[10:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> G changed the url to support OAuth.
[10:22] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: both, actually
[10:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> If you change your calendar URLs nothing works.
[10:23] <BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: oh right, that should be pretty conclusively broken, then
[10:23] <ixxvil> ok i did a apt-get update
[10:23] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: and I refuse to set up MTAs, because I always misconfigure them :)
[10:23] <ixxvil> and its sort of stuck at changelogs?
[10:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> there have been two recent releases of Lighting but they only work with minor updates to TB too.
[10:23] <MartijnVdS> ixxvil: that updates the list of available packages and versions
[10:23] <ixxvil> everytime i pull down the terminal window i see more text but otherwise it just sits there
[10:23] <MartijnVdS> ixxvil: it can take a while for it to finish rebuilding the package cache or whatever it's doing up to 100%
[10:24] <ixxvil> well then shouldnt it scroll through as it ptogresses?
[10:24] <MartijnVdS> ixxvil: I have no idea what you mean
[10:25] <MartijnVdS> ixxvil: apt-get update just updates the package list, and shows you which ones it's downloading, nothing more
[10:25] <MartijnVdS> it doesn't install new/updated packages
[10:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> TB24.0 should only use Lightning 2.6. TB42.0.1->Lightning 2.6.1. TB24.1.0->Lightning 2.6.2
[10:25] <ixxvil> right i didnt do dist-upgrade yet
[10:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> I am now running Lightning 2.6b2 on TB 24.0 for some odd reason.
[10:25] <ixxvil> but the screnn isnt even scrolling to show progress on the downloads
[10:26] <MartijnVdS> ixxvil: can you post on pastebin what you *do* see?
[10:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> CalDAV calendars on G don't work with that combination.
[10:28] <BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: I'm on TB 24 and the lightning that came out of the repos and as I say that seems like it might be working
[10:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> But Mozilla are really trying hard to drop TB altogether...
[10:29] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: we have customers where every so often I have to delete a many-GB cron.mbox file because they send all of cronout to a mailbox that nobody checks...
[10:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> I will remove the Lightning I have installed and get it from the repo then.
[10:29] <BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah, mail clients aren't very fashionable
[10:29] <BigRedS> it's all about the web!
[10:29] <ixxvil> MartijnVdS: how do i check if its even downloaded all the updates?
[10:29] <MartijnVdS> ixxvil: if you've done apt-get update and apt-get dist-upgrade, you're done.
[10:29] <MartijnVdS> ixxvil: if apt-get says there's nothing to upgrade, there's nothing to upgrade
[10:30] <ixxvil> ooh shit
[10:30] <BigRedS> though there's that new mail client that means we can stop with the 20-year-old bugs in Tbird and have some brand new ones to discover!
[10:30] <ixxvil> i did apt-get upgrade
[10:30] <BigRedS> Geany?
[10:30] <MartijnVdS> ixxvil: upgrade is fine too, except it won't install new kernels
[10:30] <popey> or anything that has new dependancies
[10:30] <ixxvil> so what do i do next?
[10:30] <MartijnVdS> ixxvil: (actually, "upgrade" won't change package states, I guess)
[10:30] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: it also wont remove packages where there's conflicts or obsolescence, and wont install new depends (and hence anything depending on them)
[10:30] <MartijnVdS> ixxvil: just run apt-get dist-upgrade
[10:31] <ixxvil> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade?
[10:31] <MartijnVdS> sure
[10:31] <ixxvil> well this thing is stuck
[10:31] <ixxvil> after i did a apt-get upgrade
[10:31] <MartijnVdS> ixxvil: please paste what you see in your terminal on pastebin
[10:31] <MartijnVdS> !pastebin
[10:31] <ixxvil> 69 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
[10:31] <MartijnVdS> ixxvil: even if you dist-upgradE?
[10:32] <dwatkins> haha, I thought my Pebble watch was broken because it didn't turn on when I charged it - turned out I'd just powered it down.
[10:33] <ixxvil> so i did a apt-get dist-upgrade
[10:33] <ixxvil> and its reading through changelogs
[10:33] <MartijnVdS> ixxvil: Please, paste everything from what you typed (apt-get dist-upgrade) until you got the prompt again on pastebin, so we can help you better
[10:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> BigRedS: Nope still broken. Yellow triangle against every calendar and only some old cached events displaying :-(
[10:34] <ixxvil> im not getting a prompt
[10:34] <MartijnVdS> ixxvil: then just everything from what you typed down to the bottom of the terminal
[10:36] <ixxvil> is it sudo apt-get disto-upgrade/
[10:36] <ixxvil> sorry dist*
[10:36] <ixxvil> cause that thing is just frezing up the temrinal
[10:36] <MartijnVdS> ixxvil: it's not
[10:36] <MartijnVdS> ixxvil: please paste the output?
[10:36] <ixxvil> then?
[10:36] <ixxvil> http://www.nomorepasting.com/getpaste.php?pasteid=39656
[10:37] <MartijnVdS> ah.. you've installed something that shows the changelogs?
[10:37] <ixxvil> thats what ive been telling
[10:37] <MartijnVdS> you might have to press 'q' to quit the pager
[10:37] <MartijnVdS> Don't do that then ;)
[10:37] <ixxvil> ihit ctrl c
[10:37] <ixxvil> and i get a prompt
[10:37] <ixxvil> but its frozen
[10:38] <ixxvil> i cant see anything i type
[10:39] <ixxvil> but bash seems to execute stuff, just not visible
[10:39] <dwatkins> did you reset the shell, or clear the screen?
[10:39] <ixxvil> if i can see it, yeah
[10:39] <ixxvil> i dont
[10:40] <ixxvil> but i just typed exit and it logged me ioff
[10:40] <ixxvil> and guess what apt-get dist-upgrade hasnt really installed those packages i guess
[10:40] <ixxvil> cause im still seeing 71 packages can be updated.
[10:40] <ixxvil> 35 updates are security updates.
[10:41] <ixxvil> i dont recall the update part being so paranoid and complicated
[10:42] <ixxvil> any idea why it goes into changelogs?
[10:42] <dwatkins> it shouldn't be
[10:42] <dwatkins> I assume you did an apt-get update first
[10:42] <ixxvil> yea i did
[10:42] <ixxvil> well apt-get upgrade
[10:42] <dwatkins> what shell are you using?
[10:42] <dwatkins> no, update
[10:43] <dwatkins> make sure you have the latest list of available packages before updating
[10:43] <ixxvil> but im saying i did anapt-get  upgrade
[10:43] <dwatkins> *upgrading
[10:43] <dwatkins> make sure you have the latest list of available packages before upgrading, and then dist-upgrading
[10:43] <ixxvil> im lost
[10:43] <dwatkins> do this: apt-get update
[10:43] <ixxvil> yeah
[10:44] <ixxvil> dist-upgrade?
[10:44] <dwatkins> what shell are you using?
[10:44] <ixxvil> bash
[10:44] <dwatkins> ok, log out and back in again, to make sure it's cleared any control characters etc.
[10:44] <dwatkins> then do "reset" to clear the terminal
[10:45] <ixxvil> ok
[10:45] <dwatkins> now: apt-get update
[10:45] <dwatkins> oops sorry
[10:45] <dwatkins> apt-get upgrade
[10:45] <ixxvil> that same shit again
[10:46] <ixxvil> it goes into Reading changelogs......
[10:46] <dwatkins> what you pasted earlier?
[10:46] <ixxvil> 100% done
[10:46] <ixxvil> ye
[10:46] <dwatkins> perhaps it's just taking a while?
[10:46] <ixxvil> it read it at 100% so it must be done
[10:46] <dwatkins> what exactly are the symptoms?
[10:46] <ixxvil> i dont kno
[10:46] <dwatkins> i.e. does your prompt stop existing?
[10:46] <ixxvil> its not showing a rpompt
[10:46] <dwatkins> what do you see, can you pastebin the terminal display?
[10:47] <dwatkins> so perhaps it's not actually finished yet
[10:47] <ixxvil> its in changelogs
[10:47] <popey> pastebin
[10:47] <popey> so we can see
[10:47] <ixxvil> i pasted this 5 mins ago
[10:47] <dwatkins> sorry, I don't know what that means 'in changelogs'
[10:47] <ixxvil> it's the same thing
[10:47] <popey> press q
[10:47] <ixxvil> http://www.nomorepasting.com/getpaste.php?pasteid=39656
[10:47] <popey> to quit the changelog display
[10:47] <ixxvil> oo
[10:47] <popey> you're looking at the output from apt-changelog
[10:47] <ixxvil> it continued now after hitting q
[10:47] <ixxvil> yeah but i didnt want to
[10:47] <popey> 10:37:25 < MartijnVdS> you might have to press 'q' to quit the pager
[10:47] <ixxvil> this thing did it automatically
[10:48] <popey> we dont ship apt-changelog by default, you may have installed it yourself
[10:48] <ixxvil> ok
[10:48] <ixxvil> looks like it's done
[10:48] <ixxvil> is there anything else i should do now?
[10:49] <popey> was that you doing a dist-upgrade or upgrade?
[10:50] <ixxvil> that was for apt-get upgrade
[10:50] <popey> you should apt-get dist-upgrade
[10:50] <ixxvil> like now?
[10:50] <popey> as good a time as any
[10:51] <ixxvil> so what was the point of apt-get udate
[10:51] <dwatkins> that was going to be my next suggestion, thought we'd start with just upgrading existing packages
[10:51] <ixxvil> followed by apt-get upgrade?
[10:51] <dwatkins> update downloads the list of available packages, it doesn't actually install anything
[10:51] <ixxvil> ok
[10:51] <popey> upgrade installs new versions of packages you already have
[10:52] <popey> dist-upgrade will do the same, but may pull in new stuff too
[10:52] <popey> not just existing packages
[10:52] <popey> always dist-upgrade basically
[10:52] <ixxvil> what actually installs the new updates
[10:52] <popey> see above
[10:52] <ixxvil> apt-get dist-upgrade?
[10:52] <popey> 10:51:51 < popey> upgrade installs new versions of packages you already have
[10:52] <popey> 10:51:59 < popey> dist-upgrade will do the same, but may pull in new stuff too
[10:53] <ixxvil> so why is it i cant just do dist-upgrade now?
[10:53] <ixxvil> whats the need for apt-get dist-upgrade?
[10:53] <popey> exactly my point
[10:53] <popey> do dist-upgrade, not upgrade
[10:54] <ixxvil> so i dont need to use apt-get now rght? just hit dist-upgrade?
[10:55] <dwatkins> I suggested 'upgrade' to keep it simple, in case there was a problem with 'dist-upgrade' to rule that out
[10:55] <dwatkins> in general, do 'dist-upgrade'
[10:56] <popey> just use dist-upgrade, don't do upgrade
[10:56] <ixxvil> dist-upgrade command not found
[10:57] <popey> 10:50:33 < popey> you should apt-get dist-upgrade
[10:57] <popey> sudo apt-get update
[10:57] <popey> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[10:57] <popey> those are the two to remember
[10:57] <ixxvil> alright
[10:58] <ixxvil> for grub should i keep the local version or go with the package maintainer?
[10:58] <davmor2> Morningall
[10:59] <ixxvil> i mean as i understand it grub is that bootloader stuff right?
[10:59] <ixxvil> im not running multiple OS's here or anything, its all just via terminal
[10:59] <ixxvil> so i can keep the local version i guess, makes no difference?
[11:00] <popey> i would take new version unless you specifically modified it
[11:00] <popey> or use the diff option to see the difference
[11:00] <popey> and then make an educated decision
[11:00] <ixxvil> the new version being the pk maintainer's version?
[11:00] <popey> yes
[11:01] <ixxvil> and wth the grub thing updated im back to prompt
[11:01] <ixxvil> guess it's all done?
[11:03] <popey> sounds like it
[11:03] <ixxvil> so next time i jsut do an apt-get dist-upgrade
[11:03] <popey> no
[11:03] <popey> 10:57:35 < popey> sudo apt-get update
[11:03] <popey> 10:57:38 < popey> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[11:03] <popey> 10:57:43 < popey> those are the two to remember
[11:04] <ixxvil> right right update
[11:04] <ixxvil> and then that
[11:05] <ixxvil> it asked me to restart
[11:06] <ixxvil> i rebooted and i guess i cant login to ssh now, werid
[11:10] <dwatkins> you guess or you can't?
[11:10] <dwatkins> what are the symptoms, or does ssh -vvv user@host show anything useful?
[11:10] <ixxvil> i can login via my webconsole
[11:11] <ixxvil> via putty, nothing
[11:11] <dwatkins> can or cannot?
[11:11] <ixxvil> thought ufw was active but it's disable
[11:11] <ixxvil> cannot
[11:11] <dwatkins> can you ping the machine?
[11:11] <ixxvil> through the webconsole i can, everything else is up, just wont let me ssh via putty
[11:20] <ixxvil> yep
[11:20] <ixxvil> as i thought, iptables kicked in when i restarted/rebooted
[11:23] <ixxvil> thanks  MartijnVdS dwatkins popey
[11:24] <ixxvil> just one last thing, restarting a server vs reboot isnt the same thing is it?
[11:24] <MartijnVdS> ixxvil: how did you restart it?
[11:25] <ixxvil> reboot
[11:25] <MartijnVdS> if you type "reboot" it's the same as "shutdown -r now", but not the same as pulling the plug and then putting it back in
[11:25] <ixxvil> ok
[11:25] <MartijnVdS> you might want to install "molly-guard", so it'll ask to make sure which machine you want to reboot
[11:25] <ixxvil> its just one machine
[11:25] <MartijnVdS> (so you don't accidentally reboot the wrong machine if you have more)
[11:26] <ixxvil> right
[11:26] <ixxvil> its just me and just this machine
[11:26] <ixxvil> but thanks, noted
[11:29] <ixxvil> MartijnVdS: btw isnt it always :wq and not just :q?
[11:30] <MartijnVdS> :wq is two commands: write and quit
[11:30] <MartijnVdS> :q is just one: quit
[11:30] <MartijnVdS> (so it doesn't write)
[11:30]  * mungbean is a ZZ man
[11:30] <ixxvil> so :q is an editor thing?
[11:30] <ixxvil> or :wq
[11:30] <MartijnVdS> ixxvil: it's a vi thing
[11:30] <ixxvil> ah
[11:30] <ixxvil> so by default mutt uses vi?
[11:31] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: I know some :x people 8-)
[11:31] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Weirdos!
[11:31] <arc__> hello
[11:31] <ixxvil> cause i use mutt now and then and its always a :wq
[11:31] <MartijnVdS> ixxvil: by default it uses the EDITOR environment variable, or the command "editor" (or "visual"?) if that's not available
[11:32] <MartijnVdS> ixxvil: you can use your favourite editor if you like
[11:32] <MartijnVdS> by:
[11:32] <ixxvil> ye now that i know about it
[11:32] <MartijnVdS> - setting EDITOR=nano in your bashrc
[11:32] <ixxvil> but ive gotten used to whatever is set in mutt
[11:32] <MartijnVdS> - sudo update-alternatives --config editor
[11:32] <ixxvil> for other things i use nano
[11:33] <shauno> I didn't notice they'd started using 'editor' instead of 'sensible-editor'
[11:33] <MartijnVdS> shauno: oh they might use that, I don't lknow
[11:33] <ixxvil> oh man last i messed aorund with bashrc
[11:33] <ixxvil> was to set up EPIC
[11:33] <shauno> I think you're right, I have both, editor points to nano and sensible-editor points to vim.  explains why I keep getting nano when I least expect it
[11:34] <ixxvil> older versions of EPIC 4.0 and below had to be toyed around with in bashrc if i remember
[11:34] <MartijnVdS> shauno: I think sensible-editor is a wrapper that checks $EDITOR
[11:34] <MartijnVdS> oh wow, it's even smarter
[11:34] <MartijnVdS> it checks VISUAL, then ~/.selected-editor, then $EDITOR
[11:35] <MartijnVdS> and runs the first that exists, or nano, if that doesn't exist, nano-tiny
[11:35] <shauno> it is surprisingly sensible ;)
[11:37] <arc__> hello when i boot ubuntu 13.04 from usb my screen keeps on flashing and i can't move my mouse
[11:39] <arc__> can anyone point me the right way to a website or the resources to help me
[11:39] <MartijnVdS> arc__: how is it flashing?
[11:40] <MartijnVdS> fast? slow? all at once? bits?
[11:40] <mungbean> has it fully booted to the login screen?
[11:41] <arc__> it flashes then after 1-2 secs it flashes again and my pointer keeps on moving back to the middle
[11:42] <arc__> it try but sometimes i cant even do ctr+alt+f1
[11:42] <mungbean> take a video of it on your phone maybe?
[11:42] <mungbean> easier to demonstrate that way
[11:43] <arc__> kk
[11:46] <arc__> i will take a vid later and ask again my phone is dead (needs some charge+love)
[12:44] <popey> ☻  http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/oct/30/dell-laptop-cat-pee-urine-smell-latitude-e6430u
[12:45] <mungbean> asked my MP if he's going to the surveillance debate tomorrow. no reply
[12:50] <mungbean> lol popey
[12:50] <mungbean> worst possible PR
[12:51] <mungbean> the old ones will be appearing in schools soon, sold at full price
[12:53] <SuperMatty> mungbean: when did you ask?
[12:53] <mungbean> today
[12:53] <SuperMatty> I asked my mp about stuff via email, and only go a reply via letter
[12:53] <mungbean> on twitter,
[12:55] <mungbean> hoping to get a informal response
[12:55] <penguin42> SuperMatty: Yeh I've had that before
[12:57] <SuperMatty> mungbean: fair enough
[12:57] <SuperMatty> tbh though, I'm sure politicians get a lot of questions and I'm sure they *should* be busy right now anyway
[12:58] <mungbean> my one doesn't get many via twitter and usually answers
[12:58] <SuperMatty> who here has read the sandman comics?
[12:59] <SuperMatt> https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1450270_10153372637405464_978697425_n.jpg my latest comic book haul includes these beauties
[13:00] <qqs> Hello
[13:00] <popey> hi
[13:05] <mungbean> been looking at pass rates for schools in greater london. not good
[13:06] <mungbean> most schools around 50-60% of kids getting 5 A-C grades at gcse
[13:06] <SuperMatt> yeesh
[13:07] <mungbean> my school was 100%
[13:07] <mungbean> but its become rather difficult to get in there nowadays
[13:07] <popey> 67% at our kids place
[13:07] <mungbean> so i'm concerned about my kids chances of getting in a semi decent school
[13:08] <mungbean> the "bit rubbish" school my mrs went to in guildford got 75%
[13:08] <dwatkins> don't they tend to make the tests harder if a high percentage of kids pass?
[13:08] <SuperMatt> :/
[13:08] <arsen> if i had kids, i'd probably consider moving out of london unless i was able to get them into the really good schools :/
[13:09] <popey> 89% in 2009,
[13:09] <mungbean> popey: wow
[13:09] <popey> not sure i trust these figures
[13:09] <davmor2> mungbean: my school was knocked down and turned into a housing estate how hard is that to get into :D
[13:09] <mungbean> lots of my mates in the early 90s got < 5 gcses
[13:11] <popey> this year, 44 candidates, 19% A*, 52.2 A*-A
[13:11] <mungbean> low no. of candiadtes hence the variation
[13:11] <popey> yeah
[13:11] <popey> its girls-only at GCSE
[13:12] <mungbean> shame that my school is considered one of best state schools in country but allow anyone from outside the borough to enter
[13:12] <popey> all the boys have to go to a different school
[13:13] <mungbean> school should serve the local area
[13:13] <zleap> even so called outstanding schools have problems
[13:14] <mungbean> outstanding ofsted != outstanding
[13:14] <zleap> not academic, it could be with things like bullying, which can go as far as physical assaults,  but its branded bullying so the schools don't have to deal with it
[13:15] <mungbean> my child is only 3 and i'm thinking about secondary schools :(
[13:15] <mungbean> didn't realise how much all the other ones sucked
[13:15] <popey> some think about it before they're born
[13:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> Just checked my son's secondary: %A*-C, 80.83.  %A* or A 40.
[13:38] <penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: But in what subjects? Do they just force everyone to take something dumb that they'll get a good score in
[13:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno - It's an Academy and the "major" in maths and sciences.
[13:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> s\the\they
[13:40] <mungbean> i like the sound of that
[13:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> "Well done to our year 11s once again on their wonderful GCSE results. 40% A*- A and 84% A* to C including English and Maths."
[13:40] <mungbean> our next best school majors in music and sport
[13:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.weydonschool.surrey.sch.uk
[13:40] <mungbean> = celebrity worship
[13:45] <mungbean> surrey generally has decent schools
[13:45] <mungbean> and kent too i believe
[13:45] <penguin42> mungbean: I could point out that you've got another 2 or 3 parliaments before then and they can completely screw up any current schools in that time
[13:46]  * awilkins went to public school on the cheap because his dad taught at one
[13:47] <SuperMatt> looks like my year got 97% 5 A-C grades
[13:48] <awilkins> I got 4xA, 3xB, 1xC, 1xD (because I was a slacker about coursework, mostly)
[13:49] <awilkins> But that was when GCSEs had no A* and were only in their second year, hadn't been diluted too much from O-levels the way they are now
[13:49] <dwatkins> I got a 7.3 average in my bac, we didn't do exams in the 5th year.
[13:49] <awilkins> I saw the maths papers for 3 years after my intake and laughed myself silly
[13:49] <dwatkins> They started doing them just afterwards, so people could go to a different school (which required exam results) for the sixth form.
[13:50] <awilkins> Our maths paper, question 3 : There is a goat tehtered to a square post in a triangular field with a rope X long, calculate the area of field the goat can eat.
[13:50] <awilkins> Three years later : Get out your calculator and work this sum out. These are the buttons to push. (literally, yes, that was the question)
[13:51] <SuperMatt> I slacked on my coursework too
[13:51] <dwatkins> That's insane - we weren't allowed calculators in exams until the sixth form, and even then there were restrictions (no graphing ones).
[13:51] <SuperMatt> I got Ds in IT and Performing arts. Guess who is a part of a dance troupe and works in IT?
[13:57] <livingdaylight> Hi
[13:57] <dwatkins> lo
[14:00] <livingdaylight> i know its ubuntu channel, but i'm looking for a 27" monitor. Is 2560x1440 better or is that more for gaming? and can anyone recommend one that's around the £300 mark
[14:01] <dwatkins> Mine was significantly reduced and was still over that much, unfortunately. You might get lucky on Amazon, livingdaylight.
[14:02] <livingdaylight> there are a milliion monitors out there. It gets confusing. :/
[14:02] <awilkins> I used to just have a rule - Buy Iiyama
[14:02] <awilkins> But that has gone by the wayside
[14:02] <dwatkins> I tend to use Dell monitors.
[14:03] <awilkins> They were great CRTs but with the LCD panel revolution all the panels are made by three manufacturers or something anyway
[14:03] <livingdaylight> Dell seem particularly pricey. I was hoping to get something that's as good but charge less coz they're not riding the label.
[14:03] <awilkins> My tips now are : LED backlighting
[14:03] <livingdaylight> I heard DGM have the Apple panels
[14:04] <awilkins> Had a nice Visionmaster 22" that the cold-cathode tube failed on, replaced it with a 3D-ready model with LED
[14:04] <awilkins> Viewsonic, not Visionmaster
[14:05] <mungbean> my computer studies gcse was hilarious
[14:05] <dwatkins> yes, Dell are expensive, but in my experience, they're the best.
[14:05] <mungbean> got an A in learning about stuff used in the 60s
[14:05] <mungbean> so you could say it was history of computing gcse
[14:05] <mungbean> and i wrote an epic projec tin bbc basic
[14:06] <livingdaylight> I had a 22" for the last few years but its time for an upgrade. Looking for a 27" now .Something that's underrated but as good as the more pricey ones. Like the DGM maybe. There are good monitors coming from Korea but then its risking additional import costs.
[14:06] <awilkins> Yay for BBC BASIC
[14:06] <dwatkins> awilkins: yay indeed, it's ace
[14:07] <mungbean> i used teletext font as well
[14:07] <mungbean> double height
[14:07] <awilkins> Well, I think BBC BASIC would make my head explode now
[14:07] <mungbean> best book/library software ever written
[14:07] <dwatkins> MODE 7
[14:07] <awilkins> I used to code in VB3 for a living at a time when VB6 was going out of support
[14:07] <mungbean> C made my head explode. i thought basic was awesome then i discovered pointers and my brain cired
[14:07] <mungbean> cried
[14:08] <dwatkins> I've started learning C, picking up from the point I stopped programming about 20 years ago.
[14:08] <mungbean> is VB anything like basic? i've never lookd at it
[14:08] <mungbean> dwatkins: do you have a project?
[14:08] <SuperMatt> python is my favourite right now
[14:08] <awilkins> Visual Basic. Yes, it's like BASIC.
[14:08] <SuperMatt> I wanted to love ruby, but she was quite ugly IMO
[14:08] <dwatkins> mungbean: no, just reading Koenigen & Richie at the moment
[14:08] <awilkins> VB.NET is almost, but not entirely, unlike VB6 though
[14:08] <dwatkins> VB looks dead simple: http://i.msdn.microsoft.com/dynimg/IC81032.gif
[14:09] <awilkins> I refuse to learn VB.NET on the grounds that it will spoil my VB6 retirement package uberskills
[14:09] <mungbean> i sold my copy of kernighan and ritchie
[14:09] <dwatkins> mungbean: I got the Kindle version ;)
[14:09] <awilkins> I have Knuth.
[14:09] <awilkins> Knuth is Hard Work.
[14:09] <dwatkins> Knuth, you say.
[14:09] <mungbean> i learned a discplined form of C that never gives complile warnings
[14:10] <dwatkins> impressive
[14:10] <mungbean> http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.42.7799&rep=rep1&type=pdf
[14:10] <awilkins> It's very impressive. And thick. And very, very heavy going.
[14:11] <awilkins> mungbean, I hate that coding style though
[14:11] <mungbean> thats all i knew
[14:11] <awilkins> braces-on-separate-lines is just wasteful of the precious vertical space
[14:11] <mungbean> i only jsut learned that C had a goto
[14:11] <awilkins> Especially with the widescreen monitor downgrade
[14:12] <awilkins> VB has a goto
[14:12] <awilkins> GOTO is actually useful
[14:12] <awilkins> As long as you are disciplined
[14:12]  * dwatkins puts Knuth, AKA TAOCP, on his reading list
[14:16] <ixxvil> later
[14:18] <dwatkins> hmm, 4 volumes for £135, is there a cheaper way to get it?
[14:18]  * penguin42 only has one volume and has never read it
[14:18] <dwatkins> £125, sorry: http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Art-Computer-Programming-Volumes/dp/0321751043/
[14:18] <dwatkins> I suspected that the first one might be as far as I'd ever get.
[14:20] <mungbean> would have hoped for some latex version
[14:20] <dwatkins> I hoped for a Kindle version, but I'm sure on the wilder internets I can find something digital.
[14:22] <awilkins> Not of Knuth, I don't think
[14:22] <awilkins> Well, maybe a hooky one
[14:24] <awilkins> Even if you're coding in BASIC, pointers are useful to understand
[14:24] <awilkins> Esp, in the OO basics when you start passing things by reference / value
[14:24] <mungbean> foudn it for 397 indian rupees
[14:24] <awilkins> Wow, 4 quid
[14:24] <awilkins> Is that an eBook?
[14:25] <mungbean> http://www.flipkart.com/art-computer-programming-fundamental-algorithms-volume-1-3/p/itmdyugtg8qg2znx
[14:25] <awilkins> Aha, just volume 1
[14:25] <mungbean> might not be rupees?
[14:26] <mungbean> vol3 is 500rs
[14:26] <awilkins> No idea
[14:27] <awilkins> What the Rs. currency is
[14:27] <mungbean> yes its rupees
[14:27] <awilkins> COD
[14:27] <awilkins> So presumably... they deliver to India?
[14:31] <mungbean> s of now, Flipkart doesn't deliver items internationally.
[14:31] <mungbean> You will be able to make your purchases on our site from anywhere in the world with credit/debit cards issued in India and 21 other countries, but please ensure the delivery address is in India.
[14:32] <mungbean> i used to have a delhi office
[14:43] <DJones> Hmmh, spam email coming from digg.com "Thank you for registering with us" or something like that, wouldn't mind, but never even been on the website, flags as spam
[14:44] <dwatkins> probably has a link to some dodgy website that looks like a normal button
[14:46] <DJones> YOu'd think so, all the clickable links appear to be valid digg.com ones
[14:46] <DJones> "
[14:47] <mungbean> more likely some chump has used the wrong email address
[14:47] <mungbean> i got plane tickets sent to me t'other day
[14:47] <DJones> "Thanks for signing up for Digg! We're happy to introduce The Daily Digg, today's top stories delivered to your inbox"
[14:48] <mungbean> thanks for signing up to cat facts
[14:51] <ali1234> DJones: did you sign up for digg years ago then forget? i got one of those recently
[14:52] <DJones> ali1234: No, as far as I can remember, I've never been on the website, its not one that held any interest for me
[14:55] <DJones> Saying that, its not even come to the email account I've used for registrations for the last 15 years, so if I had signed up, it would have been at least 15 years ago
[14:56] <DJones> And after that length of time, my memory may have gotten a bit fuzzy
[14:59] <ali1234> yeah same here. found it in my spam trap address
[15:00] <ali1234> digg "relaunched" recently and sent that mail to all the existing subscribers
[15:01] <shauno> aka "the digg branding was purchased recently, and the good news sent to the subscriber list that came with it"
[15:02] <mungbean> i just received a misdirected email about MSBA Judcial Selection Committee Meeting 11-12-13 (J. Fredrickson)
[15:02] <mungbean> THE REVIEW, DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS COMMUNICATION TO ANYONE OTHER THAN THE INTENDED ADDRESSEE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED
[15:02] <ali1234> shauno: precisely, yes
[15:02] <ali1234> i signed up in 2006 apparently
[15:03] <ali1234> i don't remember why, or ever actually visiting the site
[15:03] <ali1234> but i still have the registration email
[15:03] <mungbean> if you put that in the signature, isn;'t that pointless because the person would have already read the whole email
[15:04] <shauno> the whole thing's useless.  contracts depend on 'consideration', you have to receive something for something.  you don't bind someone into a contract just by blurting terms
[15:07] <mungbean> lawyers of all people should know that
[15:08] <shauno> if I said "by reading my unsolicited statements on irc, you agree to X, consent to Y, and are forbidden from Z", you'd roll your eyes and thank the stars that nutjobs are thankfully rare around here
[15:09] <shauno> if I stick it on the end of an email, people take it seriously?
[15:09] <mungbean> especially if you then send it to the wrong person
[15:09] <mungbean> what if i'm not a person but a bot
[15:10] <mungbean> linked to a twitter feed
[15:11] <mungbean> not my problem but theirs
[15:11] <shauno> my MTA doesn't parse legalese, and would be quite happy to bounce it back to them if the mailbox isnt' matched.  is that distribution/copying to anyone other?
[15:12] <mungbean> would be better not to parse signatures
[15:13] <mungbean> some guy must have struggled gettin ghis flight the other day though
[15:15] <mungbean> even though this office is really quiet, people are wering heaphones
[15:16] <DJones> mungbean: At home, we've been getting a blokes personal pension paperwork for 10 years from Prudential, the person its addressed to has never to our knowledge lived at the address (Thats after speaking to neighbours that moved in when the houses were built)
[15:16] <mungbean> i got that too. except it was in my name
[15:16] <MartijnVdS> DJones: send them back with "DECEASED" written across the envelope
[15:17] <MartijnVdS> DJones: that helps
[15:17] <mungbean> but retirment age different
[15:17] <mungbean> and was obviously a spreasheet cock up
[15:17] <mungbean> called norwich union and they were v confused
[15:17] <DJones> Over the 10 years, I've sent it back, not known at this address countless times, I've said he's dead, I've said he's in prison, still they keep sending it
[15:17] <mungbean> because i had 1 real pension with them
[15:17] <popey> we get mail for a guy who has shares in various companies
[15:18] <MartijnVdS> DJones: Start combining.. "He's dead in prison."
[15:18] <shauno> I keep getting bills for lawn care in Boston. I've given up replying to them
[15:18] <DJones> MartijnVdS: I'm tempted to reply saying please cash out the pension and send a cheque to me
[15:18] <mungbean> i had a guy from preston who thought my email address was his, everything was getting in my inbox, i got his mobile number from one of the emails and called him. although he shared my name, he was a twat
[15:19] <mungbean> i said why are you doing this? he claimed he'd never done it and never had a virgin email account
[15:19] <mungbean> they stopped soon after
[15:20] <mungbean> i said "so you never bought this freezer from comet and this purchase here and this credit card"
[15:20] <mungbean> he started claiming voodo
[15:21] <DJones> Whenever I signup for websites, I use things like "asda@mydomain.com" or "tesco@mydomain.com" which all get filtered into a junk mail account, at least then if I get spam, I know who's sold my email address or been hacked
[15:21] <bashrc> mailinator
[15:23] <DJones> That'd be an option, but less convinient
[15:23] <mungbean> and not very private
[15:23] <mungbean> especially when buying from tesco
[15:24] <bashrc> also I expect that some sites won't accept known temporary email addresses
[15:24] <mungbean> there's a swedish mailinator i use
[15:24] <mungbean> doesn't get flagged with many sites
[15:25] <dwatkins> I tend to use the plus symbol, which gmail "ignores", e.g. myname+something@gmail.com - the +something is ignored, so the mail goes to myname@gmail.com
[15:26] <mungbean> + syumbol breaks a lot of sites badly
[15:27] <dwatkins> oh? most I've used it on treat it as a unique e-mail address
[15:27] <dwatkins> there are also other benefits to this, as one can imagine
[15:27] <mungbean> got bitten too many times by the address not getting stored properly
[15:28] <mungbean> only to find latter part is stored and they mis the myname bit
[15:28] <dwatkins> I asked for a password reset from a supplier's website the other day, got a mail back 5 minutes later from a person with my password in it in plain text *facepalm*
[15:28] <MartijnVdS> some sites claim a "+" isn't allowed in an email address
[15:30] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: that would stop people using this as a workaround if you're only supposed to have one trial per e-mail address
[15:30] <dwatkins> 30-day trial, for example
[15:30] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: all kinds of off-the-shelf web shop software doesn't like the +
[15:31] <dwatkins> makes sense, I guess
[15:31] <dwatkins> I mean to avoid trial-abuse as I mentioned
[15:31] <dwatkins> ...although I'm not sure that was the intention, or if it's just an oversight
[15:42] <mungbean> what are you supposed to do where you are in a cubicle and the cleaning lady knocks on teh main toilet door HELLLOOO CLEANING LADY
[15:43] <shauno> I use a wildcard domain too.  it makes blacklisting much easier when an address 'escapes'
[15:47] <popey> mungbean: "not now" is what I usually shout
[15:47] <popey> technically it doesn't matter what you say
[15:47] <mgdm> do it in a strained voice for comedy value
[15:47] <popey> as soon as they hear a guys voice they're gonna leave
[15:47] <popey> haha
[15:47] <popey> GNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNnnnnnnnnnnnot now!
[15:48] <mgdm> :D
[15:48] <MartijnVdS> "Ah, please come in"
[15:49] <mungbean> i didn't know if it made a difference
[15:49] <mungbean> i sit there in silence hoping nothing plops
[15:49] <MartijnVdS> why?
[15:49] <mungbean> and don't leave the cubicle until they have gone, even if i was about to
[15:49] <mungbean> #britishproblems
[15:49] <MartijnVdS> ah :)
[15:49] <mungbean> i can't plop when other people are in the cubicle next to me either
[15:50] <mungbean> unless its a sealed cubicle
[15:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'd say "do you have a can of air freshner with you? Only I've dropped a rather large one!"
[15:50] <mungbean> floor to ceiling
[15:50] <shauno> if it's the cleaning lady, surely pretending you're not there is .. counterproductive
[15:50] <dwatkins> mungbean: reminds me of this scene from The IT Crowd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUDtVdvG99s
[15:50] <mgdm> I was at a gig the other night and they had one of those blokes who hangs around and hands you paper towels etc
[15:50] <mgdm> Why oh why does anyone ever think that is a good idea
[15:50] <MartijnVdS> I've been to a place like that
[15:50] <MartijnVdS> It was *creepy*
[15:50] <mungbean> because 1 in 20 gives him a quid
[15:51] <dwatkins> many nightclubs have them
[15:51] <MartijnVdS> this was a restaurant
[15:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> mungbean: You need the japanese loos that have user-selectable sounds to cover up embarrassing noises.
[15:51] <mungbean> in a busy night club, probably 50 quid per hour
[15:51] <dwatkins> I always wondered if they were part of the club, or if they just turned up
[15:51] <mungbean> they are cringey
[15:51] <dwatkins> a colleague of mine whistles all the time in there
[15:52] <shauno> I prefer dead silence.  I used to have the office behind the jacks, I know how thin those walls are
[15:52] <mungbean> nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggh aaaaah
[15:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> I like the ones in europe where there's always an old women in the blokes loo "looking after it" ;-)
[15:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> Or even better where there is a unisex loo.
[15:54] <shauno> europe's weird.
[15:56]  * dwatkins tries to forget toilets on certain european routes
[15:56] <shauno> I don't know if the dutch are weird, or if it's just a'dam.  but they have "open-air stalls" dotted around the streets, which is a bit of a mindflip
[15:59] <penguin42> shauno: We have some in Manchester that they put out during big events - particularly things like big football events
[16:00] <shauno> those plastic ones?  not a fan of those either, to be honest
[16:04] <MartijnVdS> shauno: the metal ones rock
[16:04] <MartijnVdS> except for the stench
[16:04] <MartijnVdS> they're twisted just far enough so you can't see inside :)
[16:05] <MartijnVdS> http://www.studiokoning.nl/Foto_22/Urinoir.html
[16:05] <DJones> penguin42: They're called gutters aren't they?
[16:05] <mungbean> our place has one unisex/multisex toilet
[16:05] <MartijnVdS> We get temporary 4-user plastic ones as well.. those are a bit scary
[16:06] <mungbean> so that people of indeterminate gender can feel comfortable going in there, ....and everybody else uncomfortable
[16:06] <penguin42> shauno/DJones: These are quite large 6ft+ circular things divided into 4? units that they lift in by crane
[16:08] <shauno> yeah, that's the ones.  they work, it just feels wrong
[16:09] <mungbean> without checking google, guess how many people IBM employ
[16:09] <MartijnVdS> http://www.funnyphotos.net.au/images/popup-toilets-temporary1.jpg ?
[16:09] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: multiple tens of thousands
[16:09] <shauno> I'd start around 300k
[16:09] <MartijnVdS> shauno: according to wikipedia, you're almost right
[16:10] <mungbean> utterly astounding
[16:11] <shauno> sweet :)  I just remember AT&T being somewhere close to there, twice our size.  and IBM seem like a similar behemoth
[16:11] <MartijnVdS> shauno: do you mean one of those toilets, or one of these? http://www.eurocheapo.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Amsterdam-Public-Urinals.jpg
[16:11] <shauno> MartijnVdS: like that last link; that's the temporary plastic ones I think penguin42 means
[16:12] <penguin42> shauno: Yeh although ours are a depressing grey
[16:12] <MartijnVdS> yeah they usually are here too
[16:12] <MartijnVdS> just couldn't find those on google image search
[16:13] <shauno> isn't everything grey up north?
[16:14] <mungbean> i never knew that mikey from the gonnies was also sam gamgee in the LOTR
[16:20] <dwatkins> shauno: please define "up north" (I live in Edinburgh, up north to me is Inverness)
[16:20] <popey> north of southampton
[16:21] <dwatkins> haha
[16:21] <dwatkins> I used to say "north of the Watford gap", now it's "north of Aberdeen"
[16:21] <shauno> I believe watford gap is the traditional yardstick for this one
[16:21] <dwatkins> Well, it's pretty grey here, in fairness.
[16:22] <mgdm> It used to be that north for me was above 58.2°N
[16:22] <mgdm> now it's only about 55°N sadly
[16:22] <shauno> last time I was in edinburgh, there was a pretty thick haar rolled in.  it was the very definition of grey.
[16:22] <dwatkins> shauno: that's probably exactly what we have right now
[16:23] <shauno> fog so thick I couldn't see the castle from princes street
[16:23] <mgdm> that's not even that unusual :-)
[16:24] <shauno> http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2333/2269438164_52593d6906_b.jpg
[16:24] <dwatkins> yeah, I've noticed the draw-distance significantly reduced on many occasions
[16:24] <mgdm> it's when someone's using the GPU for mining bitcoins
[16:25]  * dwatkins wonders how much compute power Scotland has
[16:26] <bashrc> probably a lot
[16:26] <dwatkins> yeah, there's a lot of detail to render
[16:26] <mgdm> I found out yesterday that in the intial drafts of the script for the Matrix, the humans were used for compute power rather than energy
[16:27] <dwatkins> I'm sure that story has been written many times, though, mgdm.
[16:27] <mgdm> they changed it because they thought people wouldn't understand; instead, you've got nerds going "It won't work" and "why do they have to be conscious?" etc
[16:27] <bashrc> what OS did they run?
[16:27] <mgdm> bashrc: MS-DOS.
[16:27] <bashrc> :)
[16:27] <shauno> reminds me of an article that was floating around here a few years back.  "[a local councilor] had told the Infrastructure Committee meeting this week that his native Connemara would be ideal for cloud computing because it has heavy cloud cover for nine months of the year."
[16:28] <mgdm> hahahaha
[16:28] <mgdm> that has to be fake :-)
[16:29] <dwatkins> mgdm: I'm reminded of this: http://www.popsci.com/gadgets/article/2010-08/gamers-outsmart-algorithms-solving-complex-biology-problem-study-says
[16:29] <shauno> it was in the end, yeah.  but like all good hoaxes, far too believable
[16:29] <mgdm> dwatkins: heh, nice
[16:30] <dwatkins> shauno: http://devnull-as-a-service.com/
[16:30] <mgdm> I wonder what we could do if we harnessed the combined compute power of Candy Crush players
[16:30] <dwatkins> mgdm: perhaps they already are
[16:30] <mgdm> or, in fact, maybe that's what it is
[16:30] <mgdm> maybe that's how the NSA decrypt things :-)
[16:30] <shauno> dwatkins: I saw that!  what's wrong with rfc863?
[16:31] <dwatkins> shauno: haha
[16:31] <mgdm> A UDP-based discard service
[16:31] <mgdm> how would you know if it didn't work? :-)
[16:33] <shauno> I'm pretty sure inetd implements it
[16:34] <mgdm> yeah
[16:37] <dwatkins> Alternatively, use RFC1149, you'll lose random packets.
[16:37] <mungbean> does gimp have a global fill tool like the bucket one?
[16:37] <mungbean> rather than local fill
[16:39] <MartijnVdS> create new layer, do local fill on it, merge layers?
[16:39] <mungbean> i've got a signature on a grey page
[16:39] <mungbean> need to make the page white
[16:40] <MartijnVdS> you can just do color substitution then
[16:40] <shauno> not what you're asking, but I'd be tempted to just yank the contrast for that.  make the ink darker and the page whiter
[16:41] <shauno> if you take the contrast to an extreme you should just end up with black on white
[16:42] <mungbean> stuff it, i've got 10 mins before i have to leave
[16:42] <mungbean> will do that ta
[17:25] <Azelphur> wooooo, cleanfeed is screwing up my access to imgur again
[17:26] <Azelphur> 30% loss inside talktalk
[17:26] <Azelphur> :<
[17:26] <BigRedS> ssh tunnels!
[17:26] <Azelphur> indeed
[17:26] <Myrtti> Azelphur: yeah noticed it again myself
[18:38] <DJones> Azelphur: Its talktalkk, what do you expect, if you're getting better than 10% of what you're paying for thats a bonus, from a home use and now business use perspective, they've got to be the worst telecomms business in the UK
[18:40] <Azelphur> yea, virgin had the same issue though
[18:41] <Azelphur> when I get round to it I'm gonna switch to an entanet reseller.
[18:43] <ali1234> switch to demon
[18:43] <ali1234> they don't seem to have any employees at all any more
[18:43] <ali1234> they don't block anything
[18:43] <Azelphur> lol
[18:43] <Azelphur> ali1234: thing is they won't do my kind of bandwidth, they have not friendly FUP :(
[18:44] <ali1234> nobody does
[18:44] <Azelphur> enta have no fup and ipv6 \o/
[19:06]  * DJones wonders how much it costs to spend a couple of nights in Maastricht
[19:10] <DJones> Specially when Andre Rieu is performing
[19:16] <Myrtti> AlanBell: https://twitter.com/qikipedia/status/395557470858272769/photo/1
[19:17] <Myrtti> (probably already seen it, but oh well)
[19:17] <popey> https://github.com/YaroslavGaponov/node-jvm#! *boggle*
[19:26] <ali1234> how am i supposd to debug software which heavily uses dbus and gobject?
[19:38] <DivaDaddy> CHANNEL means: to invoke the style or characteristics of another person
[21:09] <ali1234> !info libdbusmenu raring
[21:09] <ali1234> !info libdbusmenu-glib4
[21:25] <jgjones> Greetings
[21:25] <popey> yo
[21:25] <mgdm> Good evening
[21:26] <jgjones> Just a quick question...
[21:26] <jgjones> I'm wondering if you can run a command via rsync?
[21:27] <mgdm> as in, kick off something on the remote server? I'd guess not
[21:27] <mgdm> if you're using ssh as a transport, though, you have sssh anyway, so...
[21:27] <jgjones> I have a server. As i understand it, I can do something like rsync username@serverip:`'command'` or have I got that wrong?
[21:28] <jgjones> well the server haven't got a ssh daemon running :S
[21:29] <jgjones> so was wondering if there was a way to send a reverse ssh command via rsync. Sound daft as that's not what rsync is for but having seen someone do a command via rsync like above hence the question.
[21:29] <mgdm> pass
[21:34] <penguin42> I'm not aware of rsync being able to do that
[21:35] <jgjones> ok - what's the rsync -e for then?
[21:39] <penguin42> jgjones: I think that's to choose whether it uses rsh or ssh to actually do the connetion but I may be wrong
[21:48] <shauno> the '`thing`' doesn't seem to be intentional. it's coming back with some pretty weird results here.  like it's trying to use the output of the command as a file list
[21:56] <shauno> it seems to make sense when used with, eg, find as the remote command.  but for anything more, I'd probably want to use rsync to push a script over, and then this '` trick to run it in-situ
[21:57] <shauno> not actually sure if it'll run over the rsync:// transport though.  there's a good chance it's a side effect of using ssh as the transport
[21:59] <jgjones> Hmm I figured. Oh well guess it's time to arrange a trip back to the server sometime when I get the chance!
[21:59] <jgjones> Thanks anyway everyone.
[22:05] <shauno> out of academic interest, the best way to defeat that (not allow rsync to run remote commands) is set the user's login shell to rssh (from the package named the same).  that'll give them a restricted shell that allowed scp, sftp, csv, rsync etc but nothing else
[22:06] <ali1234> i was trying to do something like this the other day
[22:07] <ali1234> i missed the question though
[22:09] <shauno> it's a weird one. it feels like it shouldn't be allowed, but it looks pretty powerful to run 'find' on the remote machine, and use the output as the list of files to be synced
[22:09] <ali1234> yeah that's kinda what i wanted to do
[22:10] <ali1234> i wanted to make two local copies of a remote directory, without copying the files twice
[22:11] <ali1234> so my initial idea was run find remotely, then cat each file with ssh to tee filea > fileb
[22:11] <ali1234> but that didn't work too well so in the end i tarred the directory to ssh pipe, then split the pipe with tee to two local untar commands
[22:20] <popey> http://neo900.org/news-0001-fundraising-campain-has-started
[22:20] <popey> ooh
[22:26] <ali1234> 25,000 - that's pretty cheap
[22:27] <ali1234> do you reckon it's legit?
[22:29]  * popey shrugs
[22:29] <popey> getting mixed reaction from people who do and people who dont like n900/maemo
[22:29] <ali1234> ah i see the name DocScrutinizer attached to it
[22:30] <ali1234> he's pretty well respected, so probably legit
[22:30] <ali1234> well, you don't have to run maemo on it
[22:30] <ali1234> http://maemo.org/profile/view/joerg_rw/
[22:31] <ali1234> his project, apparently
[22:59] <diddledan> they've already collected a whopping 80€
[23:10] <AlanBell> €25k is for 2 rounds of prototypes, 15 handsets in total
[23:10] <AlanBell> which seems cheap, but plausible depending on what is done already
[23:12] <AlanBell> Motherboard (PCB) upgrade that fits into N900 case (and reuses the existing Display, Battery, Antennas and some other components)
[23:12] <AlanBell> plausible then
[23:24] <directhex> AlanBell, but the display on the n900 is crap, and the batteries are all worn out
[23:26] <AlanBell> yeah, but if fixing it is out of scope then the budget is plausible
[23:28] <penguin42> popey: As I said on G+ - crap processor
[23:29] <penguin42> popey: I mean sure I've got a phone with a CPU that crap, but I bought a cheapo phone
[23:29] <penguin42> 3 years ago
[23:30] <popey> its certainly an odd idea
[23:31] <popey> i know the openmoko had a hardware upgrade
[23:32] <penguin42> actually my phone is more crap, but my point still stands - it's not much faster than the n900