/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/10/30/#xubuntu-devel.txt

brainwashochosi: I'll have to rework my patch for the greeter, because there seems to be a conflict with xfdesktop (race condition), so don't bother to test it yourself right now01:05
=== Mapley is now known as letmechangemynic
=== letmechangemynic is now known as Mapley
=== bluesabr1 is now known as bluesabre
slickymastergood morning all10:14
lderangood morning slickymaster 10:43
slickymasterlderan: good morning. Hope everything is fine with you10:43
lderanindeed it is, and yourself?10:43
slickymasterI'm alright, thnaks10:45
slickymasterthanks ^ª^10:45
lderan\o/10:45
karpionHi all, I am very new to xubuntu-devel group and I'd like to contribute in some way (already read all guidelines on how to become involved as project contributor)...Could anybody tell me what are my "next steps" to do?thanks so much!13:43
knomehey karpion, and thanks for your interest!13:44
knomewhat would you like to work on?13:44
elfytesting and qa ... :)13:45
knomeelfy, oi there ;)13:45
elfyhi knome 13:45
ochosicode code code? :)13:46
elfyyea - I can go along with that :)13:46
karpion:) I think that testing and qa are a good starting point...13:47
karpionIn my real life I am an embedded software engineer...not afraid by code (thanks ochosi & elfy :D)13:49
ochosinice13:49
knomekarpion, elfy is the right guy to talk about qa+testing, ochosi is one of the right guys to talk about development13:51
elfyI'm not here though unfortunately - will be back later today and then for a week13:51
karpionok no problem..do you have any particular starting advice?13:53
ochosikarpion: "scratch your itch"13:54
knomekarpion, with QA... get familiar with the QA trackers at iso.qa.ubuntu.com and packages.qa.ubuntu.com13:55
elfykarpion: that and have a look at this for a basic rundown https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-quality/2013-October/004376.html13:56
elfykarpion: and this if you're any good with python and fancy getting involved in creating automatic tests for us - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-quality/2013-October/004508.html13:57
elfybut - be aware that most of what you read about automatic testing is of little use to us - most is phone stuff13:57
knomewe also have a #ubuntu-quality channel, which might be helping :)13:57
knome*helpful too13:57
* elfy is now back to work 13:57
knomeme and elfy hang out there as well13:58
knomehf elfy 13:58
elfythat'd make a welcome change :p13:58
elfycya 13:58
knomehaha13:59
karpionok joining that too :d14:02
karpionok I'll give a look to automatic tests and try to be useful for u guys14:06
ochosikarpion: great!14:07
ochosibbl14:07
lderanhuzzah for automatic tests :D15:49
lderangot to do more on that myselj15:53
lderanmyself*15:53
brainwashbug 124636416:00
ubottubug 1246364 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "update-notifier does not show a tray icon in xubuntu 13.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/124636416:00
brainwashanyone know anything about this?16:01
GridCubei would assume that the update notifier its gtk316:03
ochosiGridCube: the app is gtk3, but the indicator should work with the indicator-application-gtk2 package as well (at least it used to)16:15
Unit193http://paste.openstack.org/show/50235/ That's all I see.16:40
elfylderan: I'm going to try and spend as much time as I can find over the next week beating autopilot into submission - or if not that finding out what we can get from it16:45
elfyI 'believe' the gtk2 issue is a bit more friendly now16:45
brainwashthe update notifier appears only in the unity sidebar16:46
brainwashno indicator there also16:47
brainwashbut it apparently it will show as indicator, if there is a package conflict16:47
Unit193https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-notifier/+bug/947008 ?16:48
ubottuUbuntu bug 947008 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "update-notifier inappropriately uses an indicator menu if xubuntu-desktop is installed" [Medium,Fix released]16:48
brainwashprobably16:49
elfythere was no update 'notifier' thorugh much of the saucy cycle 16:49
brainwashUnit193: between, take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd-shim/+bug/1184262/comments/7316:49
ubottuUbuntu bug 1184262 in systemd (Ubuntu) "[logind] stuck in PrepareForSleep, causing network and other services to not resume" [Undecided,Confirmed]16:49
brainwashafter bothering pitti for some days he released a possible fix based on my observations16:51
Unit193brainwash: I can give it a shot, I switched to alt+F2, gksudo pm-suspend as it worked, and resumes properly. (Stuck at the point where hitting suspend in the xfce dialog would tell me already in progress.)16:51
brainwashright, the fix is addressing exactly this problem16:52
Unit193Yep, as I said, I'll give it a shot tonight.16:52
Unit193update-manager --help  heh, love the errors. :)16:53
brainwashbut what a mess, someone has removed all the duplicated reports earlier today and asked people to test the latest kernel version =S16:54
Unit193Seemed to fail harder with the -generic kernel. :P17:01
lderanelfy: if you need help with beating up autopilot let me know :)17:23
elfylderan: I'm 'still' at the 'is it even worth it' stage - though there has been work done on a gtk emulator - but whether it's of any use to us - I still don't know17:24
lderanoo shall see if that helps me out at all17:25
lderando know abiword is a pain with it17:25
elfyyou go ahead and see if you can get anywhere with it - I'll not stop you :)17:25
lderanwoo17:27
Unit193Sweet, a mirror!17:47
elfyrandom17:47
Unit193Not if you check -devel.17:48
slickymasterbluesabre, jjfrv8_, ochosi, regarding the custom highlight color and screenshots sizes, will any of you please take a look at http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:slickymaster to confirm if that's what we're aiming at?18:11
slickymasterbbl18:13
brainwashochosi: adding a 1sec startup delay to xfdesktop does the trick and the desktop is loading normally with my work-in-progress patch for the greeter19:11
elfyhi brainwash 19:12
brainwashhey elfy 19:12
elfyback on a workless week again - so able to have more of an Xubuntu head on 19:13
brainwashelfy: between, why did subscribe the xubu bugs team to bug 1232804 ?19:13
ubottubug 1232804 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "[compositing] improve login greeter -> desktop transition" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/123280419:14
brainwashit's not really a bug, just an enhancement19:14
elfyperhaps - I'd call it a bug if it lasts as long as it does for me :)19:14
brainwashwhy not disable the compositor then :P19:16
Unit193Use compton! :P19:16
brainwashbut true, this short flicker after login is driving me mad19:17
elfybrainwash: mmmm 19:17
elfyI could just install kde and not see it at all - not sure that's a real answer :)19:17
brainwashcompton will most likely create a plain background too and not copy the background19:18
brainwashand we got some new trouble with abiword -> bug 124611119:19
ubottubug 1246111 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Abiword crashes when saving as pdf." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/124611119:19
brainwashsaving/exporting as pdf is kinda important for some people19:20
elfybrainwash: yea saw that this morning - not had time to do more than remember it19:20
elfyyep agreed 19:20
brainwashwe could use this report as yet another argument pro libreoffice :)19:21
elfylol19:21
NoskcajAnd abiwords doesn't open .docx files that are in thunar19:21
Noskcaj*abiword19:21
brainwashlibreoffice should be added to the roadmap of 14.04, so it can be discussed once again19:22
elfybest add it then :) roadmap is up for discussion tomorrow PM19:23
elfyI remember it coming up a shortish while back19:25
mikodoHi guys. I am assuming that 14.04 will be running on XMir if it can. Has there been any increase of help supporting the releases, so that 14.04 might be 5 year supported?19:28
pleia2it'll probably be another 3 year lts, but no formal discussions have happened yet19:29
mikodopleia2, Thank you.19:29
pleia2we'll do XMir testing again and see how it goes, but nowhere near any news on that19:29
ali1234i wouldn't bet on even 14.04 unity using mir19:30
pleia2yeah19:30
skellatUbuntu Developer Summit hasn't even happened yet!19:30
mikodoOH, I have been out of the loop then.19:30
ali1234not on the desktop anyway19:30
pleia2it'll probably be 14.10 before anyone is tbh19:30
pleia2it's not good to introduce a new major technology in an lts :)19:30
skellatLets wait for about 3 weeks to see what comes up at Ubuntu Developer Summit19:30
elfyindeed not pleia2 19:31
elfydidn't pulseaudio appear in 8.04 ? 19:31
ali1234yeah and it was a major disaster that took until 10.04 to get properly fixed19:31
* elfy never had no problems with it tbh19:32
ali1234then you must never have used any flash or java software19:32
pleia2it all worked ok for me too, but I never did any fancy sound stuff (flash and java stuff was fine too)19:33
elfyali1234: flash was ok for me 19:33
elfyall a bit offtopic - elfy slaps elfy for starting it off ... 19:34
pleia2hehe19:34
ali1234neither had any pulseaudio suppot so you could either have sound from flash or java or *everything else*19:34
ali1234unless you are one of the lucky ones who's soundcard had hardware mixing, then it would all appear to work perfectly19:35
elfysome old audigy thing - still working 10 years after I got it ... 19:35
ali1234yeah, there you go then19:35
ali1234anyone with onboard sound got screwed19:35
ali1234ie nearly everyone19:36
elfyoic - I'd never have noticed it then 19:36
ali1234it's why we have !wfm19:38
elfy:)19:38
ali1234anyway - i'm looking at the appindicator bug since nobody else seems interested19:42
ali1234i can't understand how i am supposed to debug software that uses dbus and gobject though19:43
brainwashali1234: before doing this you should file the SRU report for xfce4-terminal :P19:43
ali1234what i've discovered so far is that the child-added error comes from libdbusmenu19:43
ali1234it's not fixed in the current development release19:44
brainwashT?19:45
ali1234yeah, afaik19:45
ali1234i'll add all the stuff to the bug report anyway19:45
brainwashso it needs to be copied from 14.04?19:45
ali1234i dunno19:45
ali1234i just find the bugs and fix them19:46
brainwashI have no clue either19:46
brainwashyeah :D19:46
elfyand I for one thank anyone and everyone who does that stuff :)19:46
mikododitto19:46
mikodoI am looking forward to 14.04. (on Xorg, hehe), Thanks for your efforts. Bye now.19:49
Noskcajmr_pouit, Would you mind reviewing xfce4-session for me? https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/xfce4-session/4.10.1-320:00
jjfrv8-workslickymaster, the window title bar and menu highlights look good.  The playback control bar doesn't seem to have any contrast compared to mine in http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:sceenshot-stds20:02
jjfrv8-workI'm not sure where that's controlled, though. Maybe bluesabre can shed some light on that.20:03
jjfrv8-workbbl as myself20:04
brainwashali1234: thanks for updating the bug report :)20:31
Noskcajbrainwash, ali1234: should i prepare a branch?20:34
Noskcajnever mind, it's a debdiff, not a patch20:34
Noskcajso just ping micah and lionel a lot20:35
ochosibrainwash: hmm, so this is quite the all-over-reaching issue. xfwm4, xfdesktop and the greeter need a patch20:47
ochosior, the session-manager needs a patch20:47
ochosii'm not sure whether there isn't a (more?) proper way to deal with this20:48
ochosii mean i'm happy if we can make this go away in xubuntu, but ideally we'd make it go away for everyone20:48
ali1234what's the bug?20:48
ochosiali1234: https://launchpad.net/bugs/123280420:48
ubottuUbuntu bug 1232804 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "[compositing] improve login greeter -> desktop transition" [Undecided,Confirmed]20:49
ali1234i have not noticed that20:49
brainwashit's not a bug20:49
ochosiyou're using the compositor though?20:49
brainwashochosi: it's seems to be a bit tricky, sadly20:49
ali1234i have transparent terminal windows, so i guess i am?20:50
ali1234maybe i just didn't notice it20:50
ochositransparency in the terminal can also be fake transparency20:50
ali1234it's not20:51
ali1234i hate that20:51
ochosido you have shadows?20:51
ochosi:)20:51
ali1234i actually use transparent terminals to refer to the window behind when a terminal is maximized20:51
ochosiwell the fake transparency is only ok if you don't have other windows behind20:51
ali1234fake transparency is useless to me :)20:51
ali1234in general i don't like eye candy that has no useful purpose20:52
ochosiyeah, agreed20:53
ochosito me, shadows are useful (help distinguish windows)20:54
ali1234yeah. i was thinking more of desktop cube and wobbly windows :P20:54
ali1234the only thing i miss from compiz is ezoom20:54
ochosiand i guess to some people even the animation to minimize windows (the geany-effect) can be helpful for first-timers to understand where the window is going20:54
ochosiezoom? expose you mean?20:54
ali1234no. ezoom literally zooms into the whole screen20:55
ali1234meta+mousewheel to zoom in and out20:55
Noskcajbug 124647420:56
ubottubug 1246474 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "Sync gmusicbrowser 1.1.10-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/124647420:56
ochosiah, yeah i remember that one20:57
ochosiNoskcaj: good, that would be nice to get in21:00
ochosiali1234: i agree that one was very nice. unfortunately i don't see xfwm4 picking that kind of feature up anytime. and i mean anytime. not: anytime soon.21:00
ali1234what if i write it myself?21:01
ochosinot sure you can do it efficiently with xrender21:01
ochosibut what do i know21:01
ochosiit's a nice accessibility feature actually21:02
ali1234yeah and it is handy for doing fake fullscreen with software that doesn't support it well (youtube, some games...)21:03
ali1234youtube is mostly fixed now though21:04
ochositrue, i used to use it for that too :p21:04
ochosibbiab21:05
slickymastergood night all21:24
lderangood night slickymaster 21:29
ali1234don't kill dbus21:37
Unit193Hah, yeeeeah.21:37
Unit193Restarting it sometimes throws a fit.21:37
ali1234so i;ve downgraded libappindicator and libdbusmenu to raring versions and the bug is still present. which means it has to be a bug in glib or gtk21:38
ochosiali1234: what bug are you referring to?21:40
ochosithe sound-menu or something else?21:40
ali1234bug 120388821:40
ubottubug 1203888 in libappindicator (Ubuntu) "appindicator ignores menu entries after having sent the menu to the indicator" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/120388821:40
ali1234aka why bluetooth indicator doesn't work21:41
ochosimhm21:43
ochosii don't use bt for anything, so i never noticed21:45
ochosi(have it shut off in the bios)21:45
ali1234it affects many other indicators too21:46
ali1234and not just in xfce: everywhere21:46
ochosiweird21:46
ochosiwhy haven't i heard ppl shouting about thisß21:46
ochosi?21:46
ali1234"the desktop won't be neglected" they told me...21:46
ochosihave you talked to some ayatana folks about it?21:46
ochosihaha21:46
ali1234i've been shouting about it for weeks :)21:46
ochosiyeah, but *other* than you21:47
ali1234well, i mentioned it on their irc and was completely ignored21:47
ali1234the bug was reported by jbicha :/21:47
ochosi:(21:47
ochosii thought ubuntu-gnome didn't use the indicators21:47
ochosidon't they use their own system?21:47
ali1234dunno21:47
ali1234but classic does21:47
ali1234maybe they have some kind of wrapper21:47
ochosihm, i see21:47
ochosino clue, i just tried u-gnome with 13.10 for the first time21:48
ali1234also, plenty of people are shouting about it on the wrong bug report too21:48
ali1234on our sound indicator bug21:48
ochosisome things are really nice about gnome, e.g. color-management (would love to see colord-support in xfsettingsd)21:48
ali1234i should put a big banner on that announcing the other bug21:48
ali1234in fact i'm going to do it now21:48
ochosigood idea21:49
brainwashI think most people actually disable bluetooth21:50
ochosihm, possible, but if it affects multiple indicators, it should be fixed21:50
brainwashyeah, luckily xubuntu doesn't support most of them anyway :P21:51
ali1234yeah it does21:51
brainwashcan you name another example?21:52
ali1234because this affects libappindicator ones, which aren't tied to a specific version of gtk, because it's all done over dbus21:52
brainwashso I can have a look21:52
ali1234glipper21:52
ali1234if you want to see the bug in action there is a minimal testcase on the bug report21:52
ali1234https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glipper/+bug/1203888/comments/821:53
ubottuUbuntu bug 1203888 in libappindicator (Ubuntu) "appindicator ignores menu entries after having sent the menu to the indicator" [High,Triaged]21:53
ali1234there is also a question about it on AU with 50 bounty: http://askubuntu.com/questions/364594/has-the-appindicator-or-gtkmenu-api-changed-in-saucy21:53
ali1234so yeah, people have noticed21:53
ali1234just not the right people unfortunately21:53
brainwashok, I guess you will manage to fix it sooner or later21:56
ali1234your confidence may be misplaced. i have no idea where to even start tracing it, because everything goes over dbus i don't even know which process to look at21:57
brainwashuhm, and did the maintainer already comment on this problem?22:00
ali1234no22:01
ali1234i'm not even sure who that is other than "appindicator developers in launchpad"22:01
ochosithe faceless indicator-dev22:06
brainwashhiding behind a generic label...22:07
brainwashapparently debian's blueman package seems to work ok22:08
ali1234yeah, because it is not matched for indicators, so it always uses notification icons instead22:08
ali1234*patched22:08
ali1234same will happen if you remove the indicator applet on xfce, and restart blueman - it will fall back to notifications22:09
ali1234however, this is not possible under unity22:09
brainwashdoes unity even use blueman?22:09
ali1234not by default, but it can22:12
ali1234it was nearly chosen for default at one point22:12
brainwashhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libindicate/+bug/1071940/comments/722:14
ubottuUbuntu bug 1071940 in libindicate (Ubuntu) "Messaging Menu icon disappeared" [Undecided,Confirmed]22:14
ali1234mark it duplicate of the gtk3 bug :)22:14
brainwashah, right22:14
ali1234we need to get that ppa up asap22:15
ali1234it's by far the most painful bug right now22:15
brainwashis it really a valid duplicate?22:16
ali1234well, it's not going to get fixed any other way22:16
brainwashit won't get fixed in older releases22:16
brainwashright22:16
ali1234true22:16
ali1234at least people searching will find there way to the latest stuff22:18
ali1234i think that's more important than worrying about being correct on an old bug nobody cares about22:18
brainwashI really have to learn how to setup a PPA properly22:19
ali1234well first you need a PGP key...22:20
bluesabrejjfrv8: was your screenshot using the version of greybird from git/ppa?22:20
ali1234oh, you have one ... good start22:20
brainwashali1234: yeah, got one, I just need to start reading the wiki about PPAs22:20
ochosiluckily they're not that hard to set up22:21
ali1234turns out you don't need to sign the CoC to do it either...22:21
ali1234i never did get a satisfactory answer on why that is the case22:22
brainwashsame for marking reports as dupes, everyone can do that and mess up22:22
ali1234oh yeah, but the PPA docs specifically say you are required to sign the CoC... but you aren't22:25
brainwashouch22:26
brainwashali1234: how about releasing packages without appindicator support?23:00
ali1234that's a lot of packages23:00
brainwashand it would not help the unity users23:00
ali1234http://paste.ubuntu.com/6332940/23:35
brainwashmmh23:42
ali1234trying to find where that code was introduced23:45
ali1234context: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/libdbusmenu/trusty/view/head:/libdbusmenu-gtk/parser.c#L42423:46
ali1234i don't understand why insert has a special case but remove does not23:46
brainwashhttp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/libdbusmenu/trusty/revision/21#libdbusmenu-gtk/parser.c23:56

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