[01:05] <brainwash> ochosi: I'll have to rework my patch for the greeter, because there seems to be a conflict with xfdesktop (race condition), so don't bother to test it yourself right now
[10:14] <slickymaster> good morning all
[10:43] <lderan> good morning slickymaster 
[10:43] <slickymaster> lderan: good morning. Hope everything is fine with you
[10:43] <lderan> indeed it is, and yourself?
[10:45] <slickymaster> I'm alright, thnaks
[10:45] <slickymaster> thanks ^ª^
[10:45] <lderan> \o/
[13:43] <karpion> Hi all, I am very new to xubuntu-devel group and I'd like to contribute in some way (already read all guidelines on how to become involved as project contributor)...Could anybody tell me what are my "next steps" to do?thanks so much!
[13:44] <knome> hey karpion, and thanks for your interest!
[13:44] <knome> what would you like to work on?
[13:45] <elfy> testing and qa ... :)
[13:45] <knome> elfy, oi there ;)
[13:45] <elfy> hi knome 
[13:46] <ochosi> code code code? :)
[13:46] <elfy> yea - I can go along with that :)
[13:47] <karpion> :) I think that testing and qa are a good starting point...
[13:49] <karpion> In my real life I am an embedded software engineer...not afraid by code (thanks ochosi & elfy :D)
[13:49] <ochosi> nice
[13:51] <knome> karpion, elfy is the right guy to talk about qa+testing, ochosi is one of the right guys to talk about development
[13:51] <elfy> I'm not here though unfortunately - will be back later today and then for a week
[13:53] <karpion> ok no problem..do you have any particular starting advice?
[13:54] <ochosi> karpion: "scratch your itch"
[13:55] <knome> karpion, with QA... get familiar with the QA trackers at iso.qa.ubuntu.com and packages.qa.ubuntu.com
[13:56] <elfy> karpion: that and have a look at this for a basic rundown https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-quality/2013-October/004376.html
[13:57] <elfy> karpion: and this if you're any good with python and fancy getting involved in creating automatic tests for us - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-quality/2013-October/004508.html
[13:57] <elfy> but - be aware that most of what you read about automatic testing is of little use to us - most is phone stuff
[13:57] <knome> we also have a #ubuntu-quality channel, which might be helping :)
[13:57] <knome> *helpful too
[13:57]  * elfy is now back to work 
[13:58] <knome> me and elfy hang out there as well
[13:58] <knome> hf elfy 
[13:58] <elfy> that'd make a welcome change :p
[13:58] <elfy> cya 
[13:59] <knome> haha
[14:02] <karpion> ok joining that too :d
[14:06] <karpion> ok I'll give a look to automatic tests and try to be useful for u guys
[14:07] <ochosi> karpion: great!
[14:07] <ochosi> bbl
[15:49] <lderan> huzzah for automatic tests :D
[15:53] <lderan> got to do more on that myselj
[15:53] <lderan> myself*
[16:00] <brainwash> bug 1246364
[16:01] <brainwash> anyone know anything about this?
[16:03] <GridCube> i would assume that the update notifier its gtk3
[16:15] <ochosi> GridCube: the app is gtk3, but the indicator should work with the indicator-application-gtk2 package as well (at least it used to)
[16:40] <Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/50235/ That's all I see.
[16:45] <elfy> lderan: I'm going to try and spend as much time as I can find over the next week beating autopilot into submission - or if not that finding out what we can get from it
[16:45] <elfy> I 'believe' the gtk2 issue is a bit more friendly now
[16:46] <brainwash> the update notifier appears only in the unity sidebar
[16:47] <brainwash> no indicator there also
[16:47] <brainwash> but it apparently it will show as indicator, if there is a package conflict
[16:48] <Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-notifier/+bug/947008 ?
[16:49] <brainwash> probably
[16:49] <elfy> there was no update 'notifier' thorugh much of the saucy cycle 
[16:49] <brainwash> Unit193: between, take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd-shim/+bug/1184262/comments/73
[16:51] <brainwash> after bothering pitti for some days he released a possible fix based on my observations
[16:51] <Unit193> brainwash: I can give it a shot, I switched to alt+F2, gksudo pm-suspend as it worked, and resumes properly. (Stuck at the point where hitting suspend in the xfce dialog would tell me already in progress.)
[16:52] <brainwash> right, the fix is addressing exactly this problem
[16:52] <Unit193> Yep, as I said, I'll give it a shot tonight.
[16:53] <Unit193> update-manager --help  heh, love the errors. :)
[16:54] <brainwash> but what a mess, someone has removed all the duplicated reports earlier today and asked people to test the latest kernel version =S
[17:01] <Unit193> Seemed to fail harder with the -generic kernel. :P
[17:23] <lderan> elfy: if you need help with beating up autopilot let me know :)
[17:24] <elfy> lderan: I'm 'still' at the 'is it even worth it' stage - though there has been work done on a gtk emulator - but whether it's of any use to us - I still don't know
[17:25] <lderan> oo shall see if that helps me out at all
[17:25] <lderan> do know abiword is a pain with it
[17:25] <elfy> you go ahead and see if you can get anywhere with it - I'll not stop you :)
[17:27] <lderan> woo
[17:47] <Unit193> Sweet, a mirror!
[17:47] <elfy> random
[17:48] <Unit193> Not if you check -devel.
[18:11] <slickymaster> bluesabre, jjfrv8_, ochosi, regarding the custom highlight color and screenshots sizes, will any of you please take a look at http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:slickymaster to confirm if that's what we're aiming at?
[18:13] <slickymaster> bbl
[19:11] <brainwash> ochosi: adding a 1sec startup delay to xfdesktop does the trick and the desktop is loading normally with my work-in-progress patch for the greeter
[19:12] <elfy> hi brainwash 
[19:12] <brainwash> hey elfy 
[19:13] <elfy> back on a workless week again - so able to have more of an Xubuntu head on 
[19:13] <brainwash> elfy: between, why did subscribe the xubu bugs team to bug 1232804 ?
[19:14] <brainwash> it's not really a bug, just an enhancement
[19:14] <elfy> perhaps - I'd call it a bug if it lasts as long as it does for me :)
[19:16] <brainwash> why not disable the compositor then :P
[19:16] <Unit193> Use compton! :P
[19:17] <brainwash> but true, this short flicker after login is driving me mad
[19:17] <elfy> brainwash: mmmm 
[19:17] <elfy> I could just install kde and not see it at all - not sure that's a real answer :)
[19:18] <brainwash> compton will most likely create a plain background too and not copy the background
[19:19] <brainwash> and we got some new trouble with abiword -> bug 1246111
[19:20] <brainwash> saving/exporting as pdf is kinda important for some people
[19:20] <elfy> brainwash: yea saw that this morning - not had time to do more than remember it
[19:20] <elfy> yep agreed 
[19:21] <brainwash> we could use this report as yet another argument pro libreoffice :)
[19:21] <elfy> lol
[19:21] <Noskcaj> And abiwords doesn't open .docx files that are in thunar
[19:21] <Noskcaj> *abiword
[19:22] <brainwash> libreoffice should be added to the roadmap of 14.04, so it can be discussed once again
[19:23] <elfy> best add it then :) roadmap is up for discussion tomorrow PM
[19:25] <elfy> I remember it coming up a shortish while back
[19:28] <mikodo> Hi guys. I am assuming that 14.04 will be running on XMir if it can. Has there been any increase of help supporting the releases, so that 14.04 might be 5 year supported?
[19:29] <pleia2> it'll probably be another 3 year lts, but no formal discussions have happened yet
[19:29] <mikodo> pleia2, Thank you.
[19:29] <pleia2> we'll do XMir testing again and see how it goes, but nowhere near any news on that
[19:30] <ali1234> i wouldn't bet on even 14.04 unity using mir
[19:30] <pleia2> yeah
[19:30] <skellat> Ubuntu Developer Summit hasn't even happened yet!
[19:30] <mikodo> OH, I have been out of the loop then.
[19:30] <ali1234> not on the desktop anyway
[19:30] <pleia2> it'll probably be 14.10 before anyone is tbh
[19:30] <pleia2> it's not good to introduce a new major technology in an lts :)
[19:30] <skellat> Lets wait for about 3 weeks to see what comes up at Ubuntu Developer Summit
[19:31] <elfy> indeed not pleia2 
[19:31] <elfy> didn't pulseaudio appear in 8.04 ? 
[19:31] <ali1234> yeah and it was a major disaster that took until 10.04 to get properly fixed
[19:32]  * elfy never had no problems with it tbh
[19:32] <ali1234> then you must never have used any flash or java software
[19:33] <pleia2> it all worked ok for me too, but I never did any fancy sound stuff (flash and java stuff was fine too)
[19:33] <elfy> ali1234: flash was ok for me 
[19:34] <elfy> all a bit offtopic - elfy slaps elfy for starting it off ... 
[19:34] <pleia2> hehe
[19:34] <ali1234> neither had any pulseaudio suppot so you could either have sound from flash or java or *everything else*
[19:35] <ali1234> unless you are one of the lucky ones who's soundcard had hardware mixing, then it would all appear to work perfectly
[19:35] <elfy> some old audigy thing - still working 10 years after I got it ... 
[19:35] <ali1234> yeah, there you go then
[19:35] <ali1234> anyone with onboard sound got screwed
[19:36] <ali1234> ie nearly everyone
[19:36] <elfy> oic - I'd never have noticed it then 
[19:38] <ali1234> it's why we have !wfm
[19:38] <elfy> :)
[19:42] <ali1234> anyway - i'm looking at the appindicator bug since nobody else seems interested
[19:43] <ali1234> i can't understand how i am supposed to debug software that uses dbus and gobject though
[19:43] <brainwash> ali1234: before doing this you should file the SRU report for xfce4-terminal :P
[19:43] <ali1234> what i've discovered so far is that the child-added error comes from libdbusmenu
[19:44] <ali1234> it's not fixed in the current development release
[19:45] <brainwash> T?
[19:45] <ali1234> yeah, afaik
[19:45] <ali1234> i'll add all the stuff to the bug report anyway
[19:45] <brainwash> so it needs to be copied from 14.04?
[19:45] <ali1234> i dunno
[19:46] <ali1234> i just find the bugs and fix them
[19:46] <brainwash> I have no clue either
[19:46] <brainwash> yeah :D
[19:46] <elfy> and I for one thank anyone and everyone who does that stuff :)
[19:46] <mikodo> ditto
[19:49] <mikodo> I am looking forward to 14.04. (on Xorg, hehe), Thanks for your efforts. Bye now.
[20:00] <Noskcaj> mr_pouit, Would you mind reviewing xfce4-session for me? https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/xfce4-session/4.10.1-3
[20:02] <jjfrv8-work> slickymaster, the window title bar and menu highlights look good.  The playback control bar doesn't seem to have any contrast compared to mine in http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:sceenshot-stds
[20:03] <jjfrv8-work> I'm not sure where that's controlled, though. Maybe bluesabre can shed some light on that.
[20:04] <jjfrv8-work> bbl as myself
[20:31] <brainwash> ali1234: thanks for updating the bug report :)
[20:34] <Noskcaj> brainwash, ali1234: should i prepare a branch?
[20:34] <Noskcaj> never mind, it's a debdiff, not a patch
[20:35] <Noskcaj> so just ping micah and lionel a lot
[20:47] <ochosi> brainwash: hmm, so this is quite the all-over-reaching issue. xfwm4, xfdesktop and the greeter need a patch
[20:47] <ochosi> or, the session-manager needs a patch
[20:48] <ochosi> i'm not sure whether there isn't a (more?) proper way to deal with this
[20:48] <ochosi> i mean i'm happy if we can make this go away in xubuntu, but ideally we'd make it go away for everyone
[20:48] <ali1234> what's the bug?
[20:48] <ochosi> ali1234: https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232804
[20:49] <ali1234> i have not noticed that
[20:49] <brainwash> it's not a bug
[20:49] <ochosi> you're using the compositor though?
[20:49] <brainwash> ochosi: it's seems to be a bit tricky, sadly
[20:50] <ali1234> i have transparent terminal windows, so i guess i am?
[20:50] <ali1234> maybe i just didn't notice it
[20:50] <ochosi> transparency in the terminal can also be fake transparency
[20:51] <ali1234> it's not
[20:51] <ali1234> i hate that
[20:51] <ochosi> do you have shadows?
[20:51] <ochosi> :)
[20:51] <ali1234> i actually use transparent terminals to refer to the window behind when a terminal is maximized
[20:51] <ochosi> well the fake transparency is only ok if you don't have other windows behind
[20:51] <ali1234> fake transparency is useless to me :)
[20:52] <ali1234> in general i don't like eye candy that has no useful purpose
[20:53] <ochosi> yeah, agreed
[20:54] <ochosi> to me, shadows are useful (help distinguish windows)
[20:54] <ali1234> yeah. i was thinking more of desktop cube and wobbly windows :P
[20:54] <ali1234> the only thing i miss from compiz is ezoom
[20:54] <ochosi> and i guess to some people even the animation to minimize windows (the geany-effect) can be helpful for first-timers to understand where the window is going
[20:54] <ochosi> ezoom? expose you mean?
[20:55] <ali1234> no. ezoom literally zooms into the whole screen
[20:55] <ali1234> meta+mousewheel to zoom in and out
[20:56] <Noskcaj> bug 1246474
[20:57] <ochosi> ah, yeah i remember that one
[21:00] <ochosi> Noskcaj: good, that would be nice to get in
[21:00] <ochosi> ali1234: i agree that one was very nice. unfortunately i don't see xfwm4 picking that kind of feature up anytime. and i mean anytime. not: anytime soon.
[21:01] <ali1234> what if i write it myself?
[21:01] <ochosi> not sure you can do it efficiently with xrender
[21:01] <ochosi> but what do i know
[21:02] <ochosi> it's a nice accessibility feature actually
[21:03] <ali1234> yeah and it is handy for doing fake fullscreen with software that doesn't support it well (youtube, some games...)
[21:04] <ali1234> youtube is mostly fixed now though
[21:04] <ochosi> true, i used to use it for that too :p
[21:05] <ochosi> bbiab
[21:24] <slickymaster> good night all
[21:29] <lderan> good night slickymaster 
[21:37] <ali1234> don't kill dbus
[21:37] <Unit193> Hah, yeeeeah.
[21:37] <Unit193> Restarting it sometimes throws a fit.
[21:38] <ali1234> so i;ve downgraded libappindicator and libdbusmenu to raring versions and the bug is still present. which means it has to be a bug in glib or gtk
[21:40] <ochosi> ali1234: what bug are you referring to?
[21:40] <ochosi> the sound-menu or something else?
[21:40] <ali1234> bug 1203888
[21:41] <ali1234> aka why bluetooth indicator doesn't work
[21:43] <ochosi> mhm
[21:45] <ochosi> i don't use bt for anything, so i never noticed
[21:45] <ochosi> (have it shut off in the bios)
[21:46] <ali1234> it affects many other indicators too
[21:46] <ali1234> and not just in xfce: everywhere
[21:46] <ochosi> weird
[21:46] <ochosi> why haven't i heard ppl shouting about thisß
[21:46] <ochosi> ?
[21:46] <ali1234> "the desktop won't be neglected" they told me...
[21:46] <ochosi> have you talked to some ayatana folks about it?
[21:46] <ochosi> haha
[21:46] <ali1234> i've been shouting about it for weeks :)
[21:47] <ochosi> yeah, but *other* than you
[21:47] <ali1234> well, i mentioned it on their irc and was completely ignored
[21:47] <ali1234> the bug was reported by jbicha :/
[21:47] <ochosi> :(
[21:47] <ochosi> i thought ubuntu-gnome didn't use the indicators
[21:47] <ochosi> don't they use their own system?
[21:47] <ali1234> dunno
[21:47] <ali1234> but classic does
[21:47] <ali1234> maybe they have some kind of wrapper
[21:47] <ochosi> hm, i see
[21:48] <ochosi> no clue, i just tried u-gnome with 13.10 for the first time
[21:48] <ali1234> also, plenty of people are shouting about it on the wrong bug report too
[21:48] <ali1234> on our sound indicator bug
[21:48] <ochosi> some things are really nice about gnome, e.g. color-management (would love to see colord-support in xfsettingsd)
[21:48] <ali1234> i should put a big banner on that announcing the other bug
[21:48] <ali1234> in fact i'm going to do it now
[21:49] <ochosi> good idea
[21:50] <brainwash> I think most people actually disable bluetooth
[21:50] <ochosi> hm, possible, but if it affects multiple indicators, it should be fixed
[21:51] <brainwash> yeah, luckily xubuntu doesn't support most of them anyway :P
[21:51] <ali1234> yeah it does
[21:52] <brainwash> can you name another example?
[21:52] <ali1234> because this affects libappindicator ones, which aren't tied to a specific version of gtk, because it's all done over dbus
[21:52] <brainwash> so I can have a look
[21:52] <ali1234> glipper
[21:52] <ali1234> if you want to see the bug in action there is a minimal testcase on the bug report
[21:53] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glipper/+bug/1203888/comments/8
[21:53] <ali1234> there is also a question about it on AU with 50 bounty: http://askubuntu.com/questions/364594/has-the-appindicator-or-gtkmenu-api-changed-in-saucy
[21:53] <ali1234> so yeah, people have noticed
[21:53] <ali1234> just not the right people unfortunately
[21:56] <brainwash> ok, I guess you will manage to fix it sooner or later
[21:57] <ali1234> your confidence may be misplaced. i have no idea where to even start tracing it, because everything goes over dbus i don't even know which process to look at
[22:00] <brainwash> uhm, and did the maintainer already comment on this problem?
[22:01] <ali1234> no
[22:01] <ali1234> i'm not even sure who that is other than "appindicator developers in launchpad"
[22:06] <ochosi> the faceless indicator-dev
[22:07] <brainwash> hiding behind a generic label...
[22:08] <brainwash> apparently debian's blueman package seems to work ok
[22:08] <ali1234> yeah, because it is not matched for indicators, so it always uses notification icons instead
[22:08] <ali1234> *patched
[22:09] <ali1234> same will happen if you remove the indicator applet on xfce, and restart blueman - it will fall back to notifications
[22:09] <ali1234> however, this is not possible under unity
[22:09] <brainwash> does unity even use blueman?
[22:12] <ali1234> not by default, but it can
[22:12] <ali1234> it was nearly chosen for default at one point
[22:14] <brainwash> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libindicate/+bug/1071940/comments/7
[22:14] <ali1234> mark it duplicate of the gtk3 bug :)
[22:14] <brainwash> ah, right
[22:15] <ali1234> we need to get that ppa up asap
[22:15] <ali1234> it's by far the most painful bug right now
[22:16] <brainwash> is it really a valid duplicate?
[22:16] <ali1234> well, it's not going to get fixed any other way
[22:16] <brainwash> it won't get fixed in older releases
[22:16] <brainwash> right
[22:16] <ali1234> true
[22:18] <ali1234> at least people searching will find there way to the latest stuff
[22:18] <ali1234> i think that's more important than worrying about being correct on an old bug nobody cares about
[22:19] <brainwash> I really have to learn how to setup a PPA properly
[22:20] <ali1234> well first you need a PGP key...
[22:20] <bluesabre> jjfrv8: was your screenshot using the version of greybird from git/ppa?
[22:20] <ali1234> oh, you have one ... good start
[22:20] <brainwash> ali1234: yeah, got one, I just need to start reading the wiki about PPAs
[22:21] <ochosi> luckily they're not that hard to set up
[22:21] <ali1234> turns out you don't need to sign the CoC to do it either...
[22:22] <ali1234> i never did get a satisfactory answer on why that is the case
[22:22] <brainwash> same for marking reports as dupes, everyone can do that and mess up
[22:25] <ali1234> oh yeah, but the PPA docs specifically say you are required to sign the CoC... but you aren't
[22:26] <brainwash> ouch
[23:00] <brainwash> ali1234: how about releasing packages without appindicator support?
[23:00] <ali1234> that's a lot of packages
[23:00] <brainwash> and it would not help the unity users
[23:35] <ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6332940/
[23:42] <brainwash> mmh
[23:45] <ali1234> trying to find where that code was introduced
[23:46] <ali1234> context: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/libdbusmenu/trusty/view/head:/libdbusmenu-gtk/parser.c#L424
[23:46] <ali1234> i don't understand why insert has a special case but remove does not
[23:56] <brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/libdbusmenu/trusty/revision/21#libdbusmenu-gtk/parser.c