[00:00] bluesabre, What's the point of line 766, catfish/CatfishWindow.py ? [00:05] you were saying about ... [00:11] PhilDick: The jump from LTS to another version can get exciting [00:12] Noskcaj: p = subprocess.Popen(command, shell=False)? [00:12] For any other version we advise a chain of upgrades and not making a giant leap [00:13] With the HWE point releases out there and the variety of install media, it is going to be interesting to see if we can assure the LTS to LTS upgrade leap [00:13] Some of the issues thrown in the description look a bit odd [00:14] Hopefully it is just nothing [00:14] But, I'll likely be watching that session closely [00:16] Ah... maybe I can help with that testing... but maybe I'd be wiser to install Xubuntu 14.04LTS fresh... [00:16] bluesabre, You ever use p again [00:17] Or have i missed something [00:17] oh [00:17] I guess not [00:18] p is the process, but since it starts it and moves on, we don't need to store it. [00:18] PhilDick: It'll be one of the great questions we won't know an answer to until next April [00:22] I've moved to Xubuntu and LTS's only... I guess I'm not as daring as I used to be... or don't have as much spare time ;) [01:08] bluesabre, Is there any reason catfish_lib/__init__.py imports stuff? [02:08] bluesabre, My current branch fixes all but 5 warnings (excluding the build.py). http://paste.ubuntu.com/6350485/ [02:09] yay, finally some movement on the dbusmenu bug :) [03:17] merge proposal sent === PaulW2U_ is now known as PaulW2U [13:08] bluesabre, I added a bullet to the Preferences section to point out the location of the auto-saved playlist: http://imagebin.org/275630 [13:08] Is that location okay? And did you want to say anything more, like why one might want to find this file? [13:37] jjfrv8: that seems like a good location. Some users have asked where it is in the past, so it seems like something people might want to know [13:38] cool, thanks. [13:40] ochosi, since the Preferences page has been updated, I guess you'll need to copy that again to xfce.docs [13:41] ochosi, I'm working on Usage today and should have slickymaster's work moved over and some more items of mine done... [13:42] so that might be good enough to copy over later as well [13:43] that's looking awesome :) [13:43] as much as I hate that word ;) [13:44] elfy, glad you think so :) [13:45] :) [14:03] jjfrv8: sounds good, i'll do that late in the evening ~22utc [14:04] jjfrv8: just ping me with the pages that are ready/updated when you're done and i'll take care of it [14:05] ochosi, will do [14:05] bluesabre: guess we should include somewhere that the docs are only for parole>=0.6, what do you think? [14:05] ochosi: just noticed that and didn't check the code yet, does the lightdm gtk greeter first show the background specified in the conf file and then immediately replaces it with the user one? [14:09] brainwash: sorry, i'm on the train, very spotty coverage [14:09] let's postpone an meaningful conversation ;) [14:09] s/an/any/ [14:13] ochosi: sure [15:35] ochosi, the Usage and Preferences pages are ready for you to copy over. [15:36] The remaining sections that are missing from Usage are DVD and Video. I may start on them today, but they won't be ready before EOD. [15:38] I'll work on them in the playground and won't bring them over until they're ready. [15:46] slickymaster, there's a lot of backlog to read from yesterday about the Parole docs, and I'm not sure if you'll see that before this... [15:47] but I just wanted to give you the heads up that I moved your sections over to the main Usage page so ochosi could copy them to the production xfce.docs [15:48] if you need to edit them, make sure you work on the real Usage section and not on the playground version anymore. [15:49] bbl [16:19] ochosi: isn't that understood with upstream documentation? [16:20] "The manuals on this website are written for the latest stable release of the module. At this moment this means the manuals apply to Xfce 4.8 and 4.10. " [16:20] so I guess once xfce 4.12 is released, I guess thats fair [17:14] ochosi: bug 1239710 seems to fix the bug where the datetime doesn't appear on first boot [17:14] bug 1239710 in indicator-session (Ubuntu Saucy) "indicator-datetime and -session missing ~10% of the time" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1239710 [18:06] ochosi: the greeter does set the background according to the config file first, and then applies the user background if available [18:12] ochosi: so if we can improve the greeter -> desktop transition (I lost the motivation to understand the X client/server error triggered by xfdesktop when xwfm4 is cloning the root background), we should also fix the greeter to not set the background twice (config and user one) [18:15] or am I the only one who dislikes even the smallest screen flicker? :) [18:20] I don't like flicker but find I notice that sort of thing less and less [18:44] sa [18:50] hey tolga [18:51] i don't speak english. some [18:51] :/ [18:51] Noskcaj [18:52] tolga, There should be an irc channel for whatever language you speak [18:53] they are not online [18:54] i look list of channel but not turkish channel [18:54] oh [18:55] tolga: http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-tr/ [18:57] thanks elfy, I'm joined #ubuntu-tr [18:57] ok [20:52] knome: I might be in transit at 22:00, I should be around shortly thereafter [21:10] knome: I'm looking at 22:30 right now for approximate meeting time [21:10] * micahg is away now [21:15] I might be able to make some of the meeting, depends on what class i have first [21:53] micahg, yup, i'm here [21:53] ochosi, bluesabre, Unit193? :) [21:55] * skellat can observe but is trying to get scripts written for two podcasts that have to be recorded tonight [21:56] * elfy is lurking with his 'oh no - that's not much time for me' head on :) [21:58] m-hm [21:59] knome? [21:59] I'm early! [21:59] :D [21:59] hehe! [21:59] yeah... we might need to wait for a bit to get micah around [21:59] but that's okay [21:59] (at least for me) [21:59] no hurry here [21:59] I was just playing super mario galaxy 2 [21:59] hi bluesabre [21:59] lol [22:00] hey elfy [22:00] and yep, hi elfy and skellat [22:02] a meeting now? [22:02] brainwash, yep. [22:02] well, in some time. [22:03] brainwash: not a normal one - an extra :) [22:03] unusual time [22:03] brainwash, yes, was announced in the meeting minutes and is mentioned in the meetings wikipage since thu though [22:04] ok [22:04] What did i miss? [22:04] brainwash: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-10-31-15.14.log.html#l-105 [22:04] Noskcaj-school: nothing - waiting for people [22:04] Noskcaj-school, nothing, we're still waiting for micah [22:05] ok [22:05] oho, elfy beat me in speed [22:05] i must be getting old [22:05] not happening often ... wait for 2015 for next one [22:05] wait.. what?! you consider dropping the bottom panel? :( [22:05] knome: and you'd have to hurry to catch me up :) [22:05] brainwash: yep [22:05] elfy, hehe [22:06] brainwash: no one uses the bottom panel [22:07] oh hi [22:07] I do, on my test installation [22:07] pleia2: hi [22:10] hey pleia2! [22:12] ot'll take me like 10 more mins to get home [22:12] was travelling the whole day [22:12] bluesabre: I can see you on the forum ... [22:12] almost there now [22:12] ochosi, sure, in line with micah's schedule ;) [22:12] elfy, indeed [22:12] ochosi, so don't hurry too much, just take your time [22:13] ochosi: a lot of travel [22:13] bluesabre: While you're here, do you think you could fix the last 5 pep8 issues in catfish? i left them since they actually affect the code [22:13] l [22:13] knome: thanks, not eaSy to walk and tpye [22:13] ochosi, i see [22:13] Hey Noskcaj-school [22:13] as you can read :) [22:13] no typos though1 [22:13] except from my side [22:13] but i'm not walking [22:13] what are the last pep8 issues, or is there a way to verify that automatically? [22:14] k, see you in abitÃ¤ [22:14] :) [22:17] bluesabre: sudo apt-get install pep8, then pep8 */*.py in the main directory [22:17] bluesabre: http://tinyurl.com/qymdz7d [22:18] thanks elfy! [22:18] welcome :) [22:21] right, well i'm here reading now [22:21] yep [22:21] welcome [22:21] still waiting [22:21] so what's up with evryone else? [22:22] I'm in hong kong :) [22:23] :O [22:23] i'm king kong [22:23] well I wasn't expecting you to say that pleia2 [22:23] s/king/donkey [22:23] I'm in science class [22:23] elfy: haha [22:23] elfy: got your friend sorted with etherpad [22:23] oh cool - thanks [22:23] i just travelled back to my home country, it's getting *late* here :) [22:23] pleia2: that e-mail completely confused me to start with [22:24] ochosi, home as in austria or italy? [22:24] bluesabre, heh [22:24] .at [22:24] cool [22:24] you still have your flat there, or did you give it away? [22:24] same tz anyway [22:25] atill have a couch.. [22:25] lol [22:25] in the same flat? [22:25] :P [22:25] yeah [22:26] that's nice then [22:26] well... [22:26] isn't? [22:26] it's fine, it just doesnt feel like the same, obviously [22:27] sure [22:38] sorry for the delay [22:38] that's okay [22:38] ochosi, bluesabre: ping [22:38] #startmeeting Xubuntu meeting: Xfce 4.11 components in 14.04 and more [22:38] Meeting started Sun Nov 3 22:39:21 2013 UTC. The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [22:38] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired [22:39] whiskermenu 1.2 has just been released, it will be ready for upload this week. [22:39] #topic Cherry-picking Xfce 4.11 components [22:40] ok [22:40] so, [22:40] just arrived [22:40] let me start with what i think [22:40] we should keep the 4.11 components we have in 13.10 [22:41] ping eric_the_idiot [22:41] in addition, we should drop the gtk3 indicators patch into 14.04 [22:41] +1 [22:41] ochosi, pong [22:41] as well as the new xfdesktop features [22:41] +1, but try and backport some of the patches from settings 4.11.1 [22:42] Nearlky everything else needs the new xfce4ui [22:42] *nearly [22:42] we can discuss backporting/SRUing gtk3 indicators to 13.10, but that's not a high-priority, i would say medium [22:42] +1 [22:42] to knome [22:42] the reason why i additionally want the xfdesktop features in is that they will make it easier for the user to control their wallpapers [22:43] 1) they allow setting a specific dir to look for wallpapers instead of the system-wide one [22:43] we already have that though, right? I wasn't talking about going backwards [22:43] yeah, and it goes hand-in-hand with the new display-dialog (helps ppl to set their wallpapers per display) [22:43] no, i don't think we have that [22:43] yeah, we don't [22:43] so the new-new thing for 14.04 would be: gtk3 indicators and new xfdesktop release [22:44] and i will personally promise i will organize enough testing for them [22:44] read that ;) [22:44] if not else, i'll make my mum test it. [22:44] If we can squash LP Bug 1208204 via backports that may help with perception issues we have about 13.10 [22:44] Launchpad bug 1208204 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "indicator-sound no longer functions with xfce4-indicator-plugin" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208204 [22:44] Which would require the GTK3 things [22:45] well, as long as xfdesktop doesn't risk LTS -> LTS upgrades or has major dependencies, I'm fine with that [22:45] skellat: yeah, or some less intrusive fix, not sure whether it's possible. ali1234? [22:45] the uproar about the broken sound indicator is now almost gone anyway :) [22:45] micahg-work, as ochosi said, xfdesktop should take care of the migration itself [22:45] eric_the_idiot: any upgrade issues you can see? [22:45] well, at the very least, we can throw it in backports [22:45] if there's demand (GTK3 indicators) [22:46] xfwm might be worth investigating, vsync is a good thing to have. But i'm not sure how stable it is [22:46] I just need the testing [22:46] what about the new xfwm4 release with vsync support? [22:46] Noskcaj-school: :D [22:46] the focues should be getting 14.04 in a *good* shape [22:46] :) [22:46] brainwash: that's the same with every release, that's one reason why you get more relaxed with each release... [22:46] and with that, telling people to try to get along until that is released... [22:46] knome: +1 [22:47] we can of course write a blog article with updates on the most irritating bugs [22:47] and their workarounds [22:47] and if we have time, backports [22:47] let's hope not too many... [22:47] im back [22:47] wb bluesabre [22:47] ochosi, i'm referring to things we already know, pretty much the release notes mentioned bugs [22:48] there hasn't been too many new things after that [22:48] knome: yeah, we should knock those down. i'll mention one more thing that's looming ahead a bit later... [22:48] go ahead [22:48] I'd be for backporting 4.12 to trusty-backports assuming we can get sufficient reverse dependency testing [22:50] yes, considering 4.12 is released during the trusty support period... [22:50] well the logind transition leaves us with a borked xfce4-powerman [22:50] bah.. [22:50] haha [22:50] okay, that's stupid. [22:50] And Lennart Poettering is talking about breaking logind again [22:50] we should fix that. [22:50] xfce4-powerman doesn't support logind at all [22:50] ochosi, we can hopefully come up with a patch for that [22:50] micahg-work: "we" = who? [22:50] let me do some #infos [22:51] someone should be able to [22:51] bug 1222021 [22:51] bug 1222021 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "xfce4-power-manager does not inhibit systemd from handling buttons and lid events" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1222021 [22:51] well, is upstream planning to solve that? [22:51] yeah, the open question is *who* [22:51] Is there a way to get rid of logind as a dependency for us in the mix? [22:51] not in time for 14.04 i think [22:51] #info New Xfce 4.11 features to be dropped into 14.04: GTK3 indicator support, new xfdesktop release [22:52] I think we'd be better off writing the patch... [22:52] the patch does already exist [22:52] a working one? [22:52] yes, that sounds like a good idea and a justifiable use of time [22:52] micahg-work: didn't test it yet [22:53] well, if it works, let's get upstream to approve it, then we can move forward [22:53] #info Xfce 4.12 will be backported to Trusty if enough testing resources are available [22:53] * bluesabre equips testing hat [22:53] * pleia2 as well [22:53] micahg-work: the powerman isnt actively developed upstream, not sure we'd get much feedback [22:53] and systemd is a *hot* topic (as in: flamey) [22:54] ochosi, is there a suggested replacement? is that something we need to either pick up development for or find an alternative? [22:54] ochosi: Mark Shuttleworth and Lennart Poettering have been arguing repeatedly on Google Plus about it [22:54] there is even a patch for xfce4-powerman to use logind directly instead of upower for suspend/hibernate [22:54] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9963 [22:54] #info Xfce power manager doesn't support systemd; we want a patch for that if at all possible [22:54] bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9963 in General "upower is no longer doing suspend/hibernate, switch to logind" [Normal,New] [22:54] skellat: i know [22:54] skellat: and it doesnt help... [22:55] micahg-work, there is always gnome-power-manager, but it isn't too long since we switched away from that... [22:55] #nick team [22:55] micahg-work: no, but i'm just saying looking at how xfce is moving along upstream, i think they'll be cautious about new depends/recommends [22:55] #action team to investigate patching xfce4-power-manager or finding alternatives [22:55] ACTION: team to investigate patching xfce4-power-manager or finding alternatives [22:56] i think the alternative is an easy UI for systemd/logind [22:56] I'm for corsac's suggestion of runtime support for it [22:56] for what's currently stored in /etc/systemd/logind.conf [22:56] and dropping xfce4-powerman [22:56] ochosi: why not re-use xfce4-powerman :P [22:56] and using e.g. indicator-power [22:56] or some other applet to display battery status [22:57] brainwash: no reason against that, apart from not having any upstream maintainer/dev [22:57] does xfce4-powerman handle screen-blanking, or is that something else? [22:57] ochosi: we could always adopt yet another forgotten project :D [22:57] bluesabre: theoretically yes, but i think xscreensaver does that now [22:57] if indicator-power will do what we need, then that's fine, otherwise, maybe we can pick up maintenance of xfce4-powerman together with corsac? I'd hate to reinvent the wheel [22:57] it's X, powerman just sets the parameters [22:57] but aren't we wanting to move away from xscreensaver? [22:57] yes... [22:58] bluesabre: yes, if we are, then this would be a solution: [22:58] i think we should move away from xscreensaver in favor of light-locker [22:58] fine by me, should be quite a bit lighter as well [22:58] I agree, and I think ubuntu is heading that direction as well based on their interest [22:58] micahg-work: I think so too, the patches do exist already and could be extended if needed [22:58] 1) use light-locker 2) use X11's screensaver-extension to blank the screen 3) use a logind/X11-screensaver ext dialog (we'd have to write that) to control it [22:58] micahg-work, and it would be a shame to throw out all the work we've done to get to this point! [22:59] and yeah, ubuntu wants light-locker as well [22:59] fwiw, light-locker has already been uploaded to trusty [22:59] was micahg CC'd/TO'd in that email? [22:59] i've talked to the uploader, but it hasn't been decided yet whether it'll be default afaik [23:00] ochosi, since they seemed very interested about it, we should try to collaborate with them [23:00] those processes aren't extremely transparent tbh [23:00] yeah, i agree [23:00] ochosi, or at least try to change information and track the progress [23:00] we've recently set up a translation portal for light-locker btw ;) [23:00] yay [23:00] i can #info that later if you want [23:00] well, if Ubuntu doesn't move to it by default, I don't know that we want to be the pioneers in an LTS [23:00] the lubuntu guys would love to use light-locker :) [23:01] hihi [23:01] evil comment, brainwash [23:01] sure, and #info stuff about collaborating too as appropriate [23:01] hehe [23:01] micahg-work, well, same as with 4.11 components; i'd really like that in and i will organize enough testing. [23:01] micahg-work, so please let's move forward with it and only not do it if it looks like it's going to be broken... [23:01] #info it would be great if users could help wth translations for light-locker here: https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/light-locker/ [23:02] micahg-work, again, it's one of those things that we have prepared almost since the last LTS... [23:02] knome, ? we're responsible for the xfce components in the LTS, so our testing/fixing suffices, I'd rather us not be responsible for light-locker as well if we can avoid it [23:02] #info for info or assistance on the translations (about 10 strings) or transifex, feel free to ping ochosi on freenode.org [23:03] micahg-work, i understand that. and yes, i would like to avoid being responsible for that as well, but i don't think the fear of having to maintain should be the reason keeping us from using it. [23:03] oh, I thought light-locker was created by Canonical, if it's an Xfce component, that's fine [23:03] it's neither [23:03] that [23:03] but it's something ochosi and bluesabre are familiar with [23:03] it was created by me and cavalier (an xfce-dev) [23:04] oh, then, by all means :) [23:04] or at least ochosi :P [23:04] great! [23:04] is it in Debian yet [23:04] but canonical are looking into picking it up by default [23:04] which would be totally awesome [23:04] micahg-work, while we are at that, i want mugshot and menulibre in the seed for 14.04 as well. :) [23:04] micahg-work, they are not core components, and they are by bluesabre, who will hopefully have uploading rights by the release of 14.04 [23:05] micahg-work: i haven't done any extra communication on that at all, but from what i read there was a proposal a while ago [23:05] I'll get both of those in debian soon [23:05] ok, I can't do much for the next 2 weeks, after that, I'll have more time again for Xubuntu [23:05] working on the alacarte-replacing rewrite for menulibre [23:05] #info Other new components to drop for 14.04: light-locker, MenuLibre, Mugshot [23:05] mugshot needs an update and then I'll try to get it in debian again [23:05] was that everything that was mentioned? [23:05] menulibre should also make us a bit lighter [23:06] yep [23:06] and mugshot should make us user-friendlier [23:06] ++ [23:06] micahg-work, what about python 2/3? [23:06] sounds like this'll be an awesome LTS [23:06] yes, that's the plan... [23:06] that's the evil plan i've been carrying around since 12.10 [23:07] you never would have guessed that! HA! [23:07] knome, it would be nice to move to python3 only, but I"m more concerned about stability than that since we have only 3 years of support [23:07] micahg-work, sure, just asking as it was mentioned in the roadmap brainstorming [23:07] now that we have a bigger ISO it's not a showkiller. [23:08] right [23:08] bigger ISO... mmh, libreoffice :) [23:08] ochosi, did you want to talk about whiskermenu? [23:08] noooooooOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! [23:08] yeah, good point [23:08] oh btw, [23:08] whiskermenu would be a nice addon and replacement for our current menu [23:08] ubuntu lately changed their system requirements to 1GB of memory [23:09] so we are now well under [23:09] it's really fast and lightweight, i've tested it for a while, it adds search-capability to the menu (sweet!) [23:09] and it's far more customizable than the integrated menu [23:09] how does menulibre work with those menus? [23:09] bluesabre: ^ [23:10] or, in other words, how useful is menulibre for a user using whiskermenu [23:10] same [23:10] whiskermenu is a searchable xfce menu [23:10] same thing, different interface [23:10] okay [23:10] so when I fix menulibre, it will work fine with either [23:10] we could bind it to a kb-shortcut [23:10] e.g. super+space [23:10] so users could quickly bring it up to launch apps [23:11] isn't it alt+esc right now? [23:11] (just as a more understandable and visually integrated alternative to xfce4-appfinder) [23:11] ctrl+esc I mean [23:11] (although appfinder is atm still more powerful with custom commands) [23:12] brainwash: well, up to us to decide i think, mine was just a suggestion [23:12] ochosi, would you be willing to put up some kind of spec for the proposed whiskermenu integration with some highlights and screenshots why it would be so awesome, as well as talking a bit about the panel layout (with possibly a finalish proposal on that), ideally before thursday? [23:12] knome: in general yes, before thursday is not realistic (PM) [23:13] well the deadline for finalizing specs is november 21 [23:13] ochosi: could you talk to mrpouit and get whiskermenu in the xfce-4.10 and/or xfce-4.12 ppa? [23:13] but would be good to have *something* on that before thu, since we're discussing and approving most of the roadmap then [23:13] bluesabre: Is it in on the Debian side? [23:13] bluesabre: i think there's already a PPA (give me a sec) [23:13] knome, FWIW, I'll talk to barry, if there are plans to drop python2.7 to universe, I'd be much more encouraged to port to python3 [23:14] micahg-work, oki [23:14] #nick micahg [23:14] bluesabre, I could probably upload that [23:14] skellat, I believe it is in debian now, will check [23:14] woo for pyton 3 [23:14] python* [23:14] #action micahg to talk to barry about python2.7/3 situation [23:14] ACTION: micahg to talk to barry about python2.7/3 situation [23:14] micahg-work, sweet [23:14] bluesabre, remind me in a couple days [23:14] will do, thanks micahg-work [23:15] bluesabre: packages.d.o doesn't show it [23:15] skellat: http://ftp-master.debian.org/new/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin_1.1.1-1.html [23:15] bluesabre, micahg-work: you can do #action items if you want reminders. i'll go through those on thu [23:15]