/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/11/04/#ubuntu-uk.txt

MooDoomorning all07:16
=== iahmad is now known as iahmad|afk
diploMorning all08:05
Myrttimorning08:12
TheOpenSourcererMorning all.08:31
TheOpenSourcererYet another "inset"day... I don't remember these at all when I was at school.08:32
popeymy code club school have one tomorrow.08:32
popeyso no code club this week08:32
diploMine are both off as well TheOpenSourcerer, today and tomorrow08:34
diploAnd 2 days at the end of the week before last08:34
TheOpenSourcerergosh diplo that's mad!08:36
diploYep, had a rather heated arguement with a couple of teachers08:37
TheOpenSourcererSo they've basically had a 2 week half term08:37
diploAnd we agreed to disagree in the end, yep!08:37
TheOpenSourcererlol08:37
diploThey came back at me with well we work these hours and we do this and we do that.08:37
popeyuhm08:37
popeythey are at work on the inset days08:38
diploI said funnily enough I work more hours than you for less pay and less holiday and I havent striked yet08:38
popeyits not additional days off08:38
diploBut it's additional days off for me! Why not take them in the school holidays08:38
popeybecause thats their contracted holiday08:38
popeywould you give up your family holiday and go back to work08:39
diploNope, not the whole lot, they don't have all the holidays off08:39
popeyI didn't say all08:39
AlanBell#blameKennethBaker08:39
diploBut my point is, don't close the school. We don't close our offices because people need training.08:39
popeyyou probably have more redundancy than most schools08:40
popeydon't you want your teachers trained?08:40
ali1234take your kids to work08:40
ali1234problem solved08:40
popeyand if you aren't at your desk there aren't 20/30 people sat around doing nothing as a result (as is the case for school)08:40
BigRedSpopey: there is a difference between "train the teachers when they aren't at school" and "don't train the teachers"08:41
ali1234yeah as if they would be "sat around doing nothing"08:41
ali1234more like starting a riot08:41
BigRedSmuch as I don't follow the bewilderment at inset days08:41
popeyheh, true08:41
TheOpenSourcererAnyone fancy a free Galaxy Tab (Think it's an old one but it's "free")... http://www.trefor.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Mailing_LONAP_EN.html08:41
ali1234it takes about 5 minutes of no teacher for a classroom full of kids to turn into lord of the flies08:41
TheOpenSourcererYou just have to visit every stand at a trade show.08:41
BigRedSali1234: sounds like a valuable educational experience08:41
BigRedSTheOpenSourcerer: I can't help but wonder just how awful a show must be to make bribing people with a tablet viable08:42
popeyheh08:43
TheOpenSourcererlol - Smasung are sponsoring and it's their old tab. They've probably got millions sitting in a drawer somwhere.08:43
* popey ponders breakfast08:44
MyrttiI'm wondering if today will be a mini-Christmas08:45
MyrttiI'm waiting for all kinds of deliveries, including socks, spices, phone cases, handkerchiefs, and phones.08:46
* popey wonders where his 3doodler is08:49
* xnox hates my local pub, walked up for a full english breakfast, but they are still closed =(08:50
BigRedS'hate' seems rather strong for that...08:51
Myrttipopey: turns out someone has been participating in so many Kickstarter campaigns he's polluted our Avocado "Waiting to be delivered" list with them08:52
popey08:53
popeyEgg Banjo!09:28
jussipopey: sounds messy...?09:28
mungbeanits always spooky when you accidentally click on an exe file in linux and wine just pops the application up09:30
brobostigongood morning everyone.09:30
jussimorning brobostigon09:31
brobostigonmorning jussi09:31
jussimungbean: brings back memories from1999 :P09:31
bashrcmorning09:31
brobostigonmorning bashrc09:31
mungbeanwhat's the equivalent of kazam for windows? need to screencast a bug09:33
popeyfraps09:35
mungbeanthx09:36
mungbeani am proud to be a windows noob nowadsys09:36
BigRedShaha, I got a replacement board and graphics card for my windows pc over the weekend. Suddenyl realised I had no idea how to install the right drivers etc.09:36
BigRedSNot sure I'm *proud* of it but it's nice to not be able to fix most people's computers for them :)09:37
=== schwuk_away is now known as schwuk
mungbeanmud sticks09:41
mungbeanand i have a wide family09:41
mungbean(they're not fat)09:42
popeymungbean: so you've exhausted all your distro & desktop swaps and the only option left was Windows?09:46
mungbeani had to test a bug reported by a user09:46
mungbeanyou may be surprised to hear this but...09:47
mungbeani've been happy on elementary for over a year09:47
mungbeanmy DE usage has gone from KDE->gnome2->every DE under the sun for 1 yr->elementary09:47
mungbeanmy home laptop is on unity for the missis09:48
popeyphew09:49
mungbeanat some point during the wandering years i've become an LTS man09:49
mungbeani think thats age + time available for tinkering09:49
mungbeanelementary setup is v v similar to how i had gonem2 anyway09:50
mungbeanpopey: when learning git, was there a particular tutorial you followed?09:51
JamesTaitGood morning all; happy Use Your Common Sense Day! :-D09:51
BigRedSso I don't need to for the rest of the year?10:01
JamesTait"The problem with common sense is it ain't that common."10:02
jussiJamesTait: isnt that day everyday?10:06
popeymungbean: the one Lorna Jane posted10:07
JamesTaitjussi, I wish someone had told the rest of the world that. ;)10:07
jussiJamesTait: ++10:07
popeymungbean:10:08
popeybah10:08
popeyhttp://teach.github.com/presentations/git-foundations.html#/10:08
MooDooJamesTait: i've got non, does that mean my day can't be happy?10:09
mungbeancheers10:09
JamesTaitMooDoo, you can be happy marvelling at the common sense of those around you. :-P10:10
MooDooJamesTait: I work in tech support, there is non in here ;)10:10
mungbeani have a user who runs all of his appliactions from another server even though his own pc can run them fine. e.g. openoffice, xdvi, etc, etc, all X displayed10:11
mungbeanthis is the user who suffered serious stress when asked to change his password10:11
BigRedSit's not uncommon for users to carry on with what works even when there's an apparently technically better solution10:12
mungbeanyeah, they all continued logging ont that server to run pine even though they could run pine on their own pc, a problem that went away in the 90s10:12
Myrttistupid Parcelforce10:14
BigRedSmungbean: yeah, but did logging on to the server to run pine ever stop working?10:15
BigRedSI still apparently do things to solve long-solved problems simply because there's never been a particularly good reason to stop10:16
BigRedSI think that's the reasoning behind most of my annoyance at Ubunt or Unity10:17
dubaco_1hardware: asus k53u software: ubuntu 13.10 internet connection: virgin media 30 mbps breadband, recording an actual speed of 16.6289062 Mbps. why am i unable to streem a bbc iplayer radio programme then?10:19
BigRedSdubaco_1: what happens when you try?10:19
dubaco_1i can stream tv. no issue, no buffering... when i try radio it says i have insuffficient bandwidth10:21
dubaco_1i cant stream google play movies though10:22
dubaco_1i can listen to radiosveriges p3 no issues.10:25
dubaco_1BigRedS, *10:27
BigRedSsorry, ended up on the phone10:45
BigRedSdubaco_1: not that I can be particularly helpful; seems the BBC's just mis-estimating your bandwidth10:45
BigRedSwhich is weird; I use iplayer radio all the time and I don't think I've ever had that10:46
BigRedSa workaround would be to get_iplayer it, but without knowing the BBC's metrics it's going to be hard to tell what's wrong there10:46
dubaco_1get_iplayer wont work anymore10:50
BigRedSwont it? I used it the other day for telly stuff10:51
BigRedSnot tried on radio for a while, though10:51
popeyget_iplayer doesn't work for radio10:52
davmor2Morning all10:59
BigRedSwhen did that happen?11:01
BigRedSlooks okay to me: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6358192/11:03
popeyhmm, didnt for me11:03
popeyodd11:03
mungbeanERROR: Failed to get version pid metadata from iplayer site11:04
mungbeanBigRedS: that works for me too11:05
mungbeangonna try again11:05
BigRedSmungbean: that looked more like failure than "works for me too" :)11:06
mungbeani tried your command rather than my own11:06
BigRedSohh11:06
BigRedSI haven't checked that the audio file works, though11:06
mungbean./get_iplayer shaun --get11:06
mungbeanyep, works11:07
mungbeanv2.8211:07
BigRedSI've got 2.83-1 out of the 13.10 repos11:07
mungbeanooh look at you11:08
mungbean;)11:08
BigRedShaha11:11
BigRedSgotta keep up-to-date with command-line means of watching the telly11:11
mungbeananyone want a free flight from brisbane to melbourne?11:11
mungbean31 dec11:11
mungbeanordered by another mr mungbean who doesn't know his own email11:13
mungbeani can also change the flight :-|11:13
BigRedShaha11:14
directhexmungbean,  http://xkcd.com/1279/11:15
mungbeanrelevant++11:15
mungbeanwish i'd realised this when i thought i was being clever by snatching m.mungbean rather than mungo.mungbean@gmail.com11:16
* popey logs into his gmail account for the first time in a while11:17
BigRedSIf I add a facebook account to Online Accounts does it do anything more than enable chat in Empathy? I'm trying to use Empathy but it doesn't seem to want tot talk to Facebook or Google via XMPP11:17
directhexBigRedS, google blocked external xmpp11:19
directhexBECAUSE FREEDOM11:19
popeyah look, a mail from a curtain company to someone called Alan Pope11:19
BigRedSdirecthex: external xmpp works in pidgin11:20
bigcalmGood morning peeps :)11:21
BigRedSdirecthex: oh, google the noun not google the verb11:21
directhexBigRedS, i mean you can't xmpp a google user from a non-google user11:21
BigRedSyeah, I'm a google user - I've always just plugged my google account details into pidgin11:21
BigRedSand then I get google talk in my IM client11:22
directhexalso, google hangouts is not xmpp. google talk was11:22
BigRedSstill is, it seems11:22
BigRedSThis works in Pidgin on this machine, but not in Empathy, so I'm unconvinced the problem's at Google11:23
Myrttithe only thing that broke with gtalk <--> gtalk thing with the new Hangouts is that Empathy can't do the video call anymore11:24
Myrttias far as I can tell11:24
BigRedSah, do you have google working in empathy?11:24
MooDooseems to work ok, although I don't have my laptop with me at the moment.11:25
MyrttiI can do chat with it to SO using Hanouts on his mobile11:25
MyrttiHangouts, even11:25
ali1234empathy never could do video11:26
ali1234i mean it said it could, but it never actually worked11:26
Myrttiali1234: oh ok, I must've dreamed it then.11:27
BigRedSMooDoo: ah, fair enough. Do you know if you configured it as an XMPP account or as a Google one?11:27
davmor2ali1234: it worked for me before now but it is ugly11:27
BigRedSI'm a bit concerned at Google or Facebook taking over other things that I don't want them to if I add them as an "Online Account" rather than as a jabber account11:28
ali1234the reason it does not work is because gtalk uses a proprietary codec11:29
ali1234empathy <-> empathy over gtalk works11:29
ali1234if the other person is using an official google clientm you cannot talk to them11:29
BigRedSbah.11:29
davmor2ali1234: ah yeah that would be why we were both testing empathy at the time :)11:29
BigRedScan empathy use whatever it is that pidgin uses?11:30
ali1234pidgin has the same problem11:30
ali1234and yes, it can use libpurple plugins11:30
ali1234https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pidgin/+bug/735651 here is the bug i reported about this two and a half years ago11:30
lubotu3Ubuntu bug 735651 in pidgin (Ubuntu) "pidgin <-> google talk video calling does not work" [Undecided,New]11:30
BigRedSOh, I'm not interested in video11:31
BigRedSall I want is textual xmpp11:31
ali1234works fine11:32
BigRedSmine doesn't11:32
ali1234well, empathy is probably broken11:32
ali1234it works fine in pidgin as an XMPP account11:32
BigRedSyeah, I don't doubt that. But I wonder how it's broken such that I can XMPP to work's jabber server but not to google's11:32
BigRedSyeah, and all of them work fine in pidgin11:32
BigRedSbut the 'indicator' in the top bar is actually a menu button and the closest I can get to working indicators is the left bar11:33
ali1234no idea what you mean11:33
BigRedSbug 124324011:33
lubotu3bug 1243240 in indicator-messages (Ubuntu) "It is unclear what sort of unread message is being indicated" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/124324011:33
BigRedSso, to get the feature whereby I can see unread emails and unread IMs as different things I need to use the icons on the left bar, I think. But Pidgin doesn't integrate into that11:34
penguin42ali1234: Very few of them work with each other, I was at a meeting where we tried to do video/audio conf with free tools and pretty much failed11:34
BigRedSI did find a howto, but just using Empathy appeared easier, especially since it's apparently the blessed IM app and so I assumed least-broken11:35
ali1234BigRedS: pidgin shows you unread emails as well as IMs anyway, so that's impossible11:35
BigRedSali1234: what?11:36
BigRedSI've never known pidgin show me emails11:36
ali1234you probably don't have any email accounts added to it11:36
* penguin42 has never noticed a way to add email to it11:36
mungbeanpidgin stores a lot in clear text11:36
BigRedSoh, no. is it a mail reader?11:36
ali1234just add a XMPP account for gtalk. when you get gmail, pidgin tells you11:37
mungbeanlike your gmail chat passwords11:37
ali1234same with MSN/hotmail11:37
BigRedSali1234: is there some bonus to that? I don't want my emails in my IM client11:37
mungbeannotifications, not emails11:37
BigRedSmy actual problem is that I want two icons - one of which tells me if I have unread email and another that tells me if I have unread IMs11:38
ali1234well the bonus is that i don't have to run thunderbird and let it download all 4GB of email just to get an alert when i've got a new mail, which i will read in a browser anyway because thunderbird is rubbish11:38
mungbeani used to use an app for that11:38
BigRedSmungbean: was it XFCE?11:38
BigRedS:)11:38
mungbeangmail-notifier11:40
mungbeanwas great, but ubuntu killed it11:40
mungbeans/unity/11:40
davmor2BigRedS: you can view the icons in the launcher for Unity11:40
BigRedSdavmor2: is the launcher the thing on the left?11:41
ali1234it's one of the things n the left...11:41
ali1234mungbean: what happened to gmail-notifier?11:41
BigRedSthe thing on the left with the icons in it? Where Thunderbird has a little number telling me the unread emails?11:42
popey"ubuntu killed it"11:42
davmor2BigRedS: Yes the icons have numbers in for mail and im11:42
BigRedSdavmor2: pidgin doesn't have numbers in but empathy does11:42
ali1234because i just fixed a bug that killed most third party indicators in saucy...11:42
mungbeanstopped working due to changes brought about by the systray11:42
mungbeanauthor didn't update it11:42
BigRedShence my trying empathy and noticing that it cannot XMPP to goofle11:42
ali1234god knows how that ever got past QA11:42
BigRedS*google11:42
BigRedSI think xfce might be the easier solution...11:43
ali1234"the desktop won't be neglected" they said...11:43
davmor2ali1234: QA only test the applications that supported by Ubuntu main possibly ie the one on the iso11:43
popeythats not entirely true11:44
BigRedSali1234: the desktop isn't cloudy enough11:44
popeycommunity qa people test all kinds of things11:44
ali1234yeah, unfortunately this bug was in a library11:46
BigRedSHm. Online accounts appears to want access to all of my Google account. Is there some config somewhere to restrict it?11:46
ali1234so testing all the apps would never find it11:46
ali1234and especially automated testing11:46
penguin42ali1234: Testsuite against the library?11:47
ali1234also unfortunately, since it was in a library it broke a whole range of apps that use it11:47
ali1234yeah it has a testsuite - which doesn't work properly11:47
ali1234and doesn't actually test the thing that broke11:47
penguin42ah well that never helps :-)11:48
mungbeanis it safe to send your bank account and sort code around clear text to friends and family?11:48
davmor2mungbean: no11:49
BigRedSi think it's possible to set up direct debits with those11:49
BigRedSwith just those11:49
penguin42yeh it is - Jeremy Clarkson proved that the hard way11:49
ali1234not *just* those. you also need some fake ID and a forged signature11:49
ali1234but yeah, it's not safe11:50
penguin42mungbean: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7174760.stm11:50
mungbeana cheque has those details on11:50
mungbeanand we give them out11:50
penguin42mungbean: Yes it's a hopeless system11:50
ali1234you're unlikely to have any problems11:50
ali1234they only did clarkson to make a point11:50
mungbean"The bank cannot find out who did this because of the Data Protection Act and they cannot stop it from happening again.??11:51
mungbeanalthough somebody may have stoeln my birth cert from my mums house last year11:51
AlanBellit is a system that mostly works because it always has11:51
mungbeani did some epic shredding over the weekend11:51
penguin42mungbean: Yeh the system is just hopelessly broken, if you get some money coming into your account it's really difficult to track11:52
mungbeanelectronically?11:52
penguin42mungbean: Yeh, I had a problem where I couldn't tell where something came from and the bank was just hopeless11:52
ali1234i wish i had that problem11:53
penguin42ali1234: Unfortunately it wasn't significantly large11:54
penguin42one of them was I'd started a monthly dd to another bank, and checked with the source to see it had gone in; it showed money going out and one coming straight back in, and the source bank said they couldn't check whether the money that came back in was actually from what went out (it was the same amount)11:55
mungbeansoudns wrong11:56
penguin42they wouldn't believe it until I ended up running between the banks and found they'd typo'd the destination account number11:56
BigRedSHaha, now I can't see how to get Thunderbird icon thingies in XFCE11:56
ali1234BigRedS: what version, and what do you mean by "thingies"?11:57
BigRedSUp in the top bar there used to be an icon that changed in appearence when I had unread messages11:57
ali1234there's two different kinds of those11:57
ali1234if you want the same one you had in unity, you need to be running 13.10 and you need to do this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Saucy/Gtk3Indicators11:58
ali1234if you want the other type, idk...11:58
BigRedSNo, I specifically don't want Unity's one because I want one for IM and one for email11:58
BigRedSthat's why I'm in XFCE11:59
ali1234well, xfce now uses indicators11:59
ali1234you can have the messaging indicator and also the pidgin notifier at the same time12:00
BigRedSah right, so it's going to do whatever unity does?12:00
ali1234sort of, but it can also do the old way too12:00
BigRedSand the messaging indicator will include the pidgin stuff?12:00
ali1234yes12:00
BigRedSright12:00
ali1234if you can find a thunderbird notifier, you can use that instead12:00
BigRedSI might just find a 9.10 CD12:00
ali1234perhaps thunderbird-gnome-support12:01
ali1234i dunno why you want two icons12:01
BigRedSbecause I don't feel teh need to immediately respond to unread mail but I do to unread jabbers12:01
BigRedSI'm beginning to think that I'm quite peculiar in this sense, but for the fact that all the admin people here also complain about it12:02
ali1234i barely use the icon tbh12:02
ali1234i look for blue tabs in my chat window, or the "new emails" banner on the contacts list12:02
penguin42BigRedS: Do you not have your jabbers set to pop up a window?12:02
BigRedSpenguin42: no, and I shudder to think how awfully that would work when I were on a different workspace12:03
ali1234anyway, if pidgin is more important, then just add a notification area and get a icon just for pidgin12:03
BigRedSali1234: is that doable in unity?12:03
ali1234maybe. i think you can whitelist pidgin12:03
ali1234i dunno, i don't use it12:03
BigRedSit's not more important, it's just that the distinction is more important to me than a several-hundred pixel wide blankness at the top of my monitor12:03
BigRedSah, cool. I'll have a fiddle...12:03
ali1234all incoming messages open a new tab for me in pidgin12:04
ali1234so i only ever have one window12:04
BigRedSyeah, but that requires that you look at the pidgin window12:04
BigRedSsometimes I'm working in a different window12:04
penguin42ali1234: I have multiple pidgin windows - it's actually why I like pidgin, persuading stuff to go into the 'right' window is more tricky12:04
BigRedSand I use multiple workspaces which unity seems to have decided is an afterthought12:04
ali1234there's the notification icon for that though12:04
penguin42BigRedS: It's less of an afterthought than gnome12:05
BigRedSyeah, is that what I'm going to go away and see if I cna work out how to add? Or is that the envelope?12:05
ali1234no12:05
BigRedSpenguin42: not really. Gnome can at least manage "always on visible workspace"12:05
ali1234it's the speech buble with green circle thing12:05
BigRedS(or could last time I tried it)12:05
ali1234turns yellow when you have messages and higlights12:05
BigRedSah! That's what I'm after! So, yeah, I need to work out how to add that to unity12:05
ali1234also turns yellow when you get an email, but i think you can turn that off12:05
BigRedSyeah, if pidgin doesn't know about emails I guess it wont do that anyway12:06
ali1234http://askubuntu.com/questions/30742/how-do-i-access-and-enable-more-icons-to-be-in-the-system-tray12:06
ali1234btw, it's all different depending what version you are on...12:07
BigRedSI don't have a 'panel' under unity12:07
mungbeanthere's a battle of air con vs radiators in here12:07
BigRedSoh! haha! Well, I shouldn't have really assumed otherwise12:08
ali1234the key has been moved in recent versions12:08
ali1234see the comments12:08
BigRedS"Do note that the system tray is entirely removed in 13.04 and newer and that older applications that still have not been ported need to be updated"12:08
BigRedSwonderful12:08
ali1234http://askubuntu.com/questions/67312/how-do-i-enable-the-pidgin-system-tray-icon12:08
ali1234ah yeah12:09
ali1234so12:09
ali1234xfce it is then12:09
BigRedSyeah, I was just coming to that conclusion12:10
BigRedSor fix empathy and get used to also losing 32px of screen width12:11
BigRedS(or do that thing I found somewhere to get pidgin to have numbers there).12:11
BigRedSeither way it's pretty clear that it's not going to be 'fixed' as far as we're concerned12:11
ali1234you could probably prevent thunderbird from using the message menu at all12:11
BigRedSperhaps, but I'd like to see both12:12
BigRedSand I'm really not sure why this appears so hard to do. It's what everyone did 15 years ago12:12
ali1234because everything old is automatically worse than hitler12:13
BigRedSwell, yeah12:13
BigRedSbut sometimes I'd like to enable worse-than-hitler12:13
AlanBellif only they would bring back an option for spacebar heating12:14
penguin42AlanBell: Is that for warmth or punishment/notification12:14
AlanBellhttp://xkcd.com/1172/12:14
BigRedShaha12:15
penguin42nice12:17
mungbeanthere's an xkcd for everything, else dilbert12:18
penguin42yeh it's useful to check dilbert so it can tell you what will happen in the next meeting12:18
BigRedSright. So I need to hack together an application indicator. Is this a GTK thing or some other Ubuntu-only thing?12:19
ali1234https://plus.google.com/117474986382867317779/posts/9B1izdYHNwR12:19
BigRedSI wonder if Debian's XFCE will be more compliant12:19
ali1234ubuntu's xfce is largerly identical to the debian one12:19
ali1234making appindicators is pretty easy btw, after you patch the bug that makes it almost impossible in saucy :)12:20
BigRedSgargh.12:20
BigRedSI might just stop using computers12:20
shaunountil you discover someone's ported netbsd to the slide rule.  there is no escape!12:22
ali1234xfce is gonna be really good in 14.0412:23
BigRedSali1234: is there a patch for this bug that makes it almost impossible? If I can package that *and* whatever hack I produce this might work12:24
ali1234yes12:24
ali1234there's even a package12:24
BigRedSoh goody. what's the bug?12:24
BigRedSeven better!12:24
ali1234bug 120388812:24
lubotu3bug 1203888 in libappindicator (Ubuntu) "appindicator ignores menu entries after having sent the menu to the indicator" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/120388812:24
ali1234you have to build the package yourself though, because it won't build in a ppa, because the tests are broken12:24
ali1234bug 124716212:25
lubotu3bug 1247162 in libdbusmenu (Ubuntu) "fails to build from source in PPA due to test failure" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/124716212:25
BigRedSta!12:25
ali1234hopefully that patch will get SRU'd at some point12:26
ali1234you'll also find a nice minimal example of how to make an appindicator on that first bug12:27
ali1234as well as how to build the package12:27
BigRedSoh cool. I need to look busy for a bit but I'll have a read through that in a bit. Thanks!12:28
ali1234if you're doing this on xfce you will probably need to install the gtk3 indicators patches12:29
ali1234maybe not though, appindicator should work on both12:29
BigRedSnah, unity would be preferable since that's what everyone's already using12:29
BigRedSand, more importantly, what I'm already used toi12:29
ali1234i'm not...12:29
BigRedSno, everyone here12:29
davmor2BigRedS: by the way there is libnotify-pidgin not sure it that handles the counter on the icon if you prefer pidgin12:29
penguin42has German really got 4 different words for Walnut?12:30
BigRedSI only prefer pidgin because it works :)12:30
davmor2BigRedS: so if you install that have a play and see if you get notifications on the icon on the left :) might help you, might not :)12:31
BigRedSactually, yeah, everyone here can use empathy and have their launcher not autohide and that should solve the problem for them12:31
penguin42BigRedS: I just use pidgin in KDE, problem solved12:31
BigRedSdavmor2: apparently I already have pidgin-libnotify installed12:31
TheOpenSourcererBloody hell: http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex6012:31
ali1234everyone install pidgin-festival, turn up the volume, and /join #ubuntu12:31
TheOpenSourcerer i7-920 48GB Ram 2TB Storage = €59/m12:31
BigRedSpenguin42: except the KDE bit :)12:31
davmor2BigRedS: Meh12:32
ali1234pidgin-libnotify just does the bubbles i think12:32
penguin42TheOpenSourcerer: Heck that's impressive with that much ram/storage12:32
TheOpenSourcererThey just cut the price from €69 and waived the set up fee.12:33
TheOpenSourcererWe have 5 servers with them now.12:33
penguin42TheOpenSourcerer: the 920 is pretty old, so I can imagine the system is quite cheap now, but the 48GB RAM and storage is a chunk12:33
TheOpenSourcererYeah sure.12:33
TheOpenSourcererA newer model: http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/px7012:33
penguin42TheOpenSourcerer: My i7 is ~3-4 years old, it's the 860 rather than the 920 but they were similar ages12:34
penguin42TheOpenSourcerer: Do you think the i7-920 boxes have already been in use for a few years, and they've just thrown more ram/disk in them to resell them for another couple of years?12:35
TheOpenSourcererwe got one of these fairly recently: http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex4012:35
TheOpenSourcererpenguin42: Maybe. Who cares?12:35
MartijnVdSas long as they zeroed out the disks12:35
TheOpenSourcererlol12:35
penguin42oh very nice12:35
popeyhmm, my vps is ~200GBP/yr12:36
popeyinc vat12:36
TheOpenSourcererI still fail to work out how they make money - they are *so* much cheaper then anyone else.12:36
penguin42TheOpenSourcerer: Do you pay bandwidth as well?12:36
MartijnVdSI pay £10 +VAT/month for mine12:36
TheOpenSourcererlol12:36
TheOpenSourcererpenguin42: They have 20TB/month12:37
BigRedSI always assumed they invested a fair whack in automation at the beginning and are slowly recouping that12:37
TheOpenSourcererinc12:37
penguin42nice12:37
TheOpenSourcererfor each server12:37
penguin42TheOpenSourcerer: I just assume they make the money off the people paying to monitor them....12:37
AlanBellit makes the amazon/cloud/juju stuff comedy pricing really12:38
TheOpenSourcererIf you go over you get throttled but we never have come close and one server has ~ 15 VMs on it and several are CPanel server running > 40 websites and email etc.12:38
ali1234i was seeding the ubuntu isos on release day12:38
ali1234got through about 40GB in two days12:38
shaunoI don't think amazon's pricing was ever that great, unless you actualy need the 'elastic' bit12:39
ali123420TB is just a silly amount of bandwidth12:39
penguin42the minimal costs on amazon are very low12:39
AlanBellno, but it gets sillier with juju as it needs vast numbers of VMs to do anything12:40
TheOpenSourcererThat's fine. 40G a day is what? 1.2TB per month :-)12:40
ali1234i wanted to put openstack on ours, but it turns out you need a minimum of three dedicated servers to run it12:41
MartijnVdSyou do?12:41
ali1234yes. you have to have one server dedicated to making sure all the other servers are running12:42
MartijnVdSsomething to run VMs on, something to server disks off of, and ..?12:42
AlanBellit was 6 machines minimum when I looked, but I understand they cut it back somewhat12:42
BigRedScan it be convinced to run off a load of VMs?12:42
penguin42hetzner's small VM costs are about half the price of bytemark12:42
ali1234no. it's a system for running VMs... doesn't take nicely to being nested like that12:43
ali1234does anyone know how you make ipv6 work on hetzner?12:43
penguin42ali1234: Some VM stuff can nest, I have had kvm nest on 12.04, not managed it on anything newer - the nested ones are less efficient but nowhere near as bad as just emulating12:44
BigRedSyeah, vm-in-a-vm is never ideal, but it's been possible a few times12:45
penguin42I know there are people looking to make it work again12:45
AlanBellali1234: as far as I know you just order an ipv6 /64 subnet through robot.your-server.de then start using it12:46
ali1234well supposedly we have one12:46
ali1234but nothing ever seems to use it12:46
shaunoI Think kvm does nested-VT now?  I know vmware does, but I don't believe it's a default config in either12:46
MartijnVdSshauno: it does12:46
MartijnVdSbut you have to explicitly enable it on the kvm command line12:47
penguin42shauno: It's done for a while, I've not had it work except on 12.04 - on saucy it hangs12:48
AlanBellhttps://github.com/mseknibilel/OpenStack-Grizzly-Install-Guide/blob/master/OpenStack_Grizzly_Install_Guide.rst seems you can now do openstack on one computer12:48
ali1234cool12:51
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch
mungbeanso how does the nonlinear development aspect fo git work?13:01
penguin42in what way?13:01
SuperMattin a way that messes with your head13:02
mungbeandoes one person at the top manage all the commit request to make sure they don't break stuff?13:02
SuperMattI'm never high enough for git13:02
penguin42mungbean: Different projects sort it out differently; one person/group of people doing pulls is the safest way13:02
mungbeanif you branch off v1.0 and add stuff then you can only merge back into that version,right?13:02
penguin42mungbean: But you can rebase to a newer version13:03
mungbeanhttps://www.atlassian.com/git/workflows#!workflow-gitflow13:03
mungbeanlooks scary13:03
penguin42mungbean: you can use it kind of like cvs/svn but you just gain more by doing fancier stuff (not that I've done that yet)13:04
penguin42mungbean: the trick is really that you can have your own branches/tags/checkins all locally without telling the server - and then you just push what you're interested in13:05
ga73ricignaz13:05
popeyHello.13:05
ga73richello13:05
penguin42mungbean: so people tend to create branches/tags really often where on CVS they were expensive ops, and now you can have your own local branches/tags as well13:06
mungbeando they tend to merge them upstream?13:07
penguin42merge what?13:07
mungbeantheir features and chnages13:07
mungbeanon their own branch13:07
mungbean^on^from13:07
penguin42mungbean: Yeh on the big projects you need to keep the people who can commit a bit limited to stop chaos13:08
penguin42mungbean: but that's just the same as cvs/svn13:08
mungbeanit confuses me13:08
mungbeanthere's a list of 50 commits waiting13:08
penguin42mungbean: Have you used any version control system?13:09
mungbeannot distributed13:09
penguin42mungbean: OK, so what have you used?13:09
mungbeanuser A has a commit at 5 in the queue which the maintainer is commitnig. but user B's commit is based on code that A has removed. so how does that work13:09
penguin42mungbean: well you'll end up with a merge conflict that's going to need resolving somewhere13:10
* TheOpenSourcerer is using git. But just as a faster and less crappy svn.13:10
bigcalmWhich plugin do people here use to sync contacts between gmail and thunderbird?13:10
popeygoogle.com13:10
popey13:10
* bigcalm kippers popey13:10
popey\o/ fish!13:10
penguin42popey: Are there any services to go behind the ubuntu phone to do services for it?13:11
penguin42mungbean: It's no real difference from svn/cvs in the sense if you get a conflict you still get a conflict13:11
bigcalmPeople that use Thunderbird & gmail/google apps: how do you sync contacts between client and server?13:11
popeypenguin42: in english?13:11
penguin42popey: Where will the ubuntu phone get calendar/mail/mapping etc from?13:11
popeythere's an app to sync contacts from google13:12
popeyit could be extended to sync from other places no doubt13:12
davmor2bigcalm: open Software-center, search for thunderbird, open it and there is a gmail option for email.  For calendar I just grab the ics feed for the calendar and add it to a new online calendar13:13
popeyhttp://popey.com/~alan/phablet/device-2013-10-24-132727.png13:13
bigcalmdavmor2: already syncing email and calendar. You haven't read my question correctly :)13:13
davmor2bigcalm: ah sorry13:14
bigcalmdavmor2: unless I don't understand your answer :)13:14
penguin42mungbean: What have you used before?13:14
diplobigcalm: Congratulations! and I always had issues with gmail contacts and gave up in the end, went back to web :/13:15
davmor2bigcalm: I just use the contacts in thunderbird and don't sync :D13:15
bigcalmdiplo: thanks :)13:15
bigcalmdavmor2: consider that I use the same email accounts in multiple clients. Having the contacts available across them all would be helpful13:15
davmor2bigcalm: one of the things I hate about thunderbird amongst the many :D13:16
mungbeancvs and svn but not as part of a distributed project13:16
davmor2bigcalm: you can have a look at plugins and see if there is one for google contact sync :)13:16
mungbeani wondered how the maintainer handled all the commits and branches13:17
penguin42mungbean: OK, but have you worked with cvs/svn with multiple people ?13:17
mungbeanyes but usually from a sysadmin POV (e.g. firewall scripts etc)13:17
penguin42mungbean: OK, so what happens if one of your other admins makes a change?13:17
mungbeanwriting code has been a matter of a clone and compile, or my own stuff, nobody else involved13:17
mungbeanthey would only checkout at last minute13:18
mungbeanand make changes13:18
bigcalmOnce I sort out google contact sync, I then need to figure out ms exchange contact sync13:18
mungbeanthere wouldn't be a queue of commits13:18
penguin42mungbean: OK, so it happens in CVS as well, if someone else had done a change when you did a cvs commit you'd get a conflict, you'd have to do a cvs update and sort stuff out13:18
mungbeanas part of the kernel it must be a nightmare13:19
penguin42mungbean: Where someone is merging stuff they expect you to have given them something off a pretty recent version so the likelihood of conflicts is small, but they'll accept they'll have to do some minor conflict wrangling but probably won't do anything major13:19
penguin42mungbean: The kernel stuff is also multilevel - i.e. most of the stuff that goes into Linus comes from subsection maintainers who merge other peoples stuff together13:20
penguin42mungbean: So the stuff Linus gets from each one will at least hopefully be mostly contained in one area of the code base13:20
penguin42mungbean: There's also a thing called linux-next which is where a lot of the newer stuff goes and gets merged together and tested before getting thrown upto Linus13:23
mungbeanno wonder gerg KH always ranting about people on g+13:24
penguin42mungbean: I think greg is one of the more careful in what he says :-)13:33
penguin42mungbean: But in a small project you might let any of a trusted few push to the head, and whenever they do they just have to sort out their own conflicts13:35
mungbeanhmm i was just on a website that said if i knew my security question i could reset my password there and then (not send to my email address)13:37
mungbeanthat means my password is only as strong as my security word13:37
mungbeanif it sent a link to your address it would at least require said person to have your inbox password too13:38
popeyhttp://www.theverge.com/2013/11/4/5064278/blackberry-ceo-steps-down-as-company-secures-1-billion-funding-from13:45
popeyoof13:45
AzelphurIn my usual bitcoin dealings, I stumbled upon an absolutely hilarious story, one of my friends has started an illegal smuggling venture to get contraband into denmark...the contraband is...Marmite, It's illegal in denmark.13:51
AzelphurI sit here picturing dodgy guys in dark alleys "you got the stuff?"13:51
BigRedSoh yeah, that's a relatively recent change isn't it? I remember hearing about that13:52
AzelphurBigRedS: yea, haha13:52
popeyhah13:52
Azelphursome people just gotta have their marmite clearly :)13:52
BigRedSsomething weird like it claiming to be healthy and therefore needing approval13:52
popey\o/ marmite hilight13:52
mungbeansmuggle it as earwax13:53
mungbeanwould pass the sniff and taste test13:53
Azelphurrofl13:53
mungbeandisclaimer: i quite like marmite13:53
Azelphurdoesn't human waste set off all sorts of customs checks?13:53
mungbeani wouldn't know13:54
popey*waste*!?! How dare you!13:54
AzelphurxD13:54
popeyMy earwax is of the highest quality!13:54
Azelphurhahaha13:54
Myrttiihihihiiiiii wheee13:54
Azelphurfor his next venture, I suggested smuggling Kinder Surprise eggs into USA :)13:55
mungbeanin your butt13:55
mungbeanwhat have we here? smuggling drugs up your butt in kinder eggs? no, just childrens toys :-|13:55
AzelphurxD13:56
mungbeanhow many children have a mouth big enough to eat a chocolate kinder egg in one go, yellow egg and all?13:56
mungbeandoes that mean easter eggs with things inside aren't allowed too?13:56
BigRedSisn't haggis a commonly-smuggled foodstuff into the us?13:57
BigRedS'cause lungs aren't deemed fit for human consumption. It's either into the US or into Canada, from the other13:57
mungbeanmaybe there's a niche in the market "i can't believe it's not haggis"13:57
Azelphurmungbean: yea, think so13:57
Azelphurthis is what BTC will become. Who needs drugs when you can smuggle marmite and haggis?13:58
AzelphurXD13:58
=== alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g
popeymmmmm haggis14:00
mungbeannever eaten haggis14:01
mungbeanprobabyl enver will14:01
TheOpenSourcererBeans on toast with chillies :-D14:02
popeyMy wife refuses to eat black pudding. Silly rabbit.14:07
davmor2popey: A woman with obvious good taste, what the hell is she doing with you ;)14:13
davmor2popey: Black/Blood pudding is like marmite you either love it or hate it, I'm in the hate camp on both, and you are in the love camp for both I believe.  So I wonder if there is a correlation to draw there :D14:15
MyrttiI haven't liked any of the _British_ black pudding I've tried14:18
popeydavmor2: how about haggis?14:20
davmor2popey: haggis has never really taken my fancy but I have a least tried Black puddin and marmite so I know I don't like them14:21
popeyheh14:23
popeyI will basically eat anything14:23
popeyblack pudding & haggis are a treat for me14:23
mungbeanelvis probably said the same14:23
mungbeani have certain dietary restrictions :(14:24
penguin42mungbean: Same here, I stick to chocolate14:32
mungbeani think i have problems digesting fatty food14:37
mungbeancurrently writing doc for how to install vmware on a ibm server. if it were dell, it would be upload iso, boot and away you go14:38
mungbeanits taken me most of the day to write the doc :S14:38
diploI'm the only one who writes documentation in my office14:38
diploAnd in the last 2 months we have either had people out on long term sick or left14:39
diploAnd now it's really biting them in the a**e14:39
mungbeanpeople who don't document are selfish14:40
mungbeanand stupid if they ever wanna reproduce this again14:41
mungbeanbasically did one server, discovered as i went along, hence will document now, test on server 2 and tweak docs. server 3 will be slick, then we re-do server 114:41
diploThing is for our company, they can't replace the staff.. nobody else writes in this language apart us as we now own it :/14:41
mungbeanenglish?14:42
diploWhereas I don't want to be stuck doing the same jobs over and over so document and point anyone who asks me at the docs so they can do it and learn14:42
diploSimple - lots of goto's etc14:42
daftykinsi liked hearing about a friends office, where they had a managed system before. then they got in-house IT, who had to search the network to even find out what they had to start15:12
daftykins:D15:14
daftykinsstill discovering systems months laster15:14
daftykins*later15:14
MartijnVdSthat's always fun :)15:14
diddledandaftykins: that sounds like a fun game of hide-n-seek15:15
diddledanor lucky dip15:15
MartijnVdSdiddledan: nmap :P15:15
diddledanMartijnVdS: at work we've lost a managed switch - it doesn't respond to any sort of network requests on it's supposed ip address - I've tried nmapping the subnet and still can't find it15:16
MartijnVdSdiddledan: its IP/management interface is probably on a vlan then, maybe only available on a special port, or the trunk port15:17
MartijnVdSso management traffic isn't on the same network as the "user" data15:18
daftykins^ :D15:21
daftykinsmanual perhaps? :)15:22
daftykinsi've got a 24-port managed Netgear here, its' web-admin seems utterly shocking15:22
daftykinsso unresponsive15:22
diddledanyeah ours is a  netgear tooo15:22
=== steveb_ is now known as Guest58324
penguin42diddledan: When you say you 'lost' the switch, do you mean erm physically as well ?15:29
SuperMatthey guys15:30
MartijnVdS\o SuperMatt15:32
SuperMattI'm somewhat bored15:32
SuperMattso I thought I'd camp out in here15:32
diddledanpenguin42: it's in a remote colocation centre so we don't have direct access without booking and then driving several tens of miles15:35
penguin42ah yes15:37
daftykinsheh15:38
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
davmor2SuperMatt: That's daft tents and the internet are not a good combination.  The tubes move and the cats don't like it.15:50
SuperMattthat is correct15:50
SuperMattthough if I got out my railgun, camping would be a lot of fun15:51
diddledanI tried camping once but my mince had gone off15:51
SuperMattI...15:52
SuperMattwhat?15:52
mungbean:-|15:52
SuperMattI quite enjoy camping, truth be told15:53
SuperMattmaybe the next launch party should be in a field somewhere15:54
davmor2SuperMatt: http://www.camp-let.com/trailertents/premium/  we have one of these we really like camping in that :)15:55
SuperMattooh, swish15:55
SuperMattI have a four man tent, but I've only ever had 2 people in it15:56
SuperMattbecause why be uncomfortable?15:56
SuperMattI like the outdoors, but I also like being snuggly15:56
davmor2SuperMatt: no it's danish not swish ;)15:56
SuperMatt*groan*15:56
davmor2SuperMatt: that is very snuggly with it's huge bed, bench settee, kitchen, toilet in the side annex, etc etc etc :)15:58
mungbeanlarge online shop called me to verify why my billing address was different from my shipping address. they asked for the persons name and checked a database15:59
mungbeani guess because we share the same surname it was ok15:59
mungbeannot sure what they do otherwise?16:00
SuperMattdavmor2: that's going a little too far, m'thinks ;)16:00
diddledanmungbean: I don't get it16:01
diddledanmungbean: you ordered something or someone is pretending to be you or?16:01
davmor2SuperMatt: it's just what's built into the trailer to be honest.  It's amazingly well thought out :)   Only takes about 10-15 minutes to get out of the rain when setting up too :)16:01
SuperMattcool16:02
SuperMattlast time I went camping, we just avoided hail by seconds16:02
SuperMattgot the tent up and the heavens did their stuff16:02
davmor2SuperMatt: the only thing we care about is it being dry on the day we take it down, saves having to open it back up then :)16:03
diddledandavmor2: you could take it down the night before if it's going to rain on the day you leave :-p16:03
mungbeandiddledan: i oredered something to be sent to my mums address16:03
diddledanmungbean: aah16:03
mungbeanfirst time ordered16:03
mungbeanthey blocked the order and emailed me16:04
mungbeanso i called and they checked my name against my address and my DOB16:04
mungbeanand they checked the person lived at the other address16:04
mungbeanthen they asked the relation to me16:04
mungbeani.e. why are you sending to $OTHERADDRESS16:04
diddledanmungbean: did you tick the "this is a present" box? that might give them a clue why you're sending elsewhere :-p16:05
davmor2diddledan: no you just have to get it back up and dry it out within about 3 weeks before it start to have mildew attack it.  We've been really lucky though only had to do that once16:05
diddledanor was there no such box?16:05
mungbeanno box, and only amazon don't care where it goes16:05
diddledanamazon ftw16:06
davmor2diddledan: we have left a site a day early but that was because there were thunderstorms forecast for that evening/night/following morning and that wouldn't of been fun to take it down in :)16:07
diddledanindeed16:07
daftykinsi'm being a devil and upgrading a desktop in this property from lucid to 12.04.3 D:16:08
daftykinsi'm curious how it'll go16:08
mungbeanamazon was £6 more expensive and i don't get cashback via quidco :P16:08
daftykinsBanshee will already have to be ditched as the music player16:08
mungbeanbanshee lol16:08
daftykins:D16:08
daftykinsyeah it's a PC in a 'breakfast room' that occasionally plays music16:09
daftykinsi've mostly seen it switched off however16:09
BigRedShaha, thunderbird's decided to download all mail in every folder on the mailserver at work16:11
BigRedSwhich is fine, I didn't want to send any mail for the next week anyway16:12
mungbeanlo @ popey raccoon vid. dunno why its funny but it is16:12
SuperMatthave fun with your super high load for the next half hour o/16:12
mungbeanmy baby daughter doesn't let you scrape her chin with the spoon when feeding because when spoon goes near, mouth goes open = more mess16:12
BigRedSyeah, I just tried right-clicking to get to the subscribe menu and that took forty seconds16:12
SuperMatthaha16:13
SuperMattpoor thing16:13
popey16:14
mungbeanhttp://www.theverge.com/2013/11/4/5063760/we-try-the-steam-machine-valves-video-game-console-of-the-future16:14
SuperMattI'm looking forward to getting my hands on one of those controllers16:20
mungbeanlooks like its made for men16:21
SuperMattif valve had any sense, they're start releasing the controller soon, before the xbox one controller gets support on windows 816:21
SuperMattespecially as I like using my xbox controller on games. If it is truely revolutionary, it'd be nice to have the controller out soon16:25
SuperMattafter all, it's not like it's tied to the release of a steambox itself16:25
mungbeanulimit -c 0 means no core files, right?16:26
mgdmI believe so16:27
mungbeanah, realised the issie16:27
mungbeanwas OK until i performed a qlogin16:27
SuperMattsetting the flash plugin to "always ask" in firefox was the best thing I ever did16:28
ali1234BigRedS: libdbusmenu fix was merged :)16:29
BigRedSali1234: whoop! :)16:35
mungbeanhttp://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/11/80-rikomagic-arm-based-ubuntu-mini-pc-starts-shipping16:37
mungbeanfor those who don't read omg16:37
mungbeani don't have a HDMI telly :'(16:37
BigRedSARM with no hardware video acceleration?16:38
BigRedSGiven my experience with a Pi I'm not sure I'd find a use for that16:39
davmor2mungbean: hdmi to dvi lead16:40
mungbeanmy telly is OLD16:46
penguin42mungbean: Same here - it's got a CRT16:46
mungbeanyep16:47
mungbeanCRT yeah you know me16:47
penguin42mungbean: I'm getting tempted though, but I need to buy from somewhere that will take the old one away16:47
mungbeanput it outside with a note "DO NOT STEAL"16:48
mungbeani give it 30 mins16:48
penguin42mungbean: Well, I mean someone who can get it down the stairs would be a good start16:48
mungbeangravity16:48
mungbean\o/16:48
penguin42well true, it'll be easier than gettting it up the stairs16:49
mungbean\o/-------[]16:49
penguin42mungbean: It's a 32" - not fun16:49
mungbeani may have the same telly16:50
penguin42Tosh16:50
mungbeanah16:50
mungbeani have the panasonic quintrix16:50
mungbeanbest telly ever16:50
ali1234how can throwing a TV out a window ever be "not fun"?16:50
mungbeangot it for a bottle of wine16:50
mungbeancarried it out of a 2nd floor flat and nearly died16:51
penguin42ali1234: My windows don't open enough to dispatch the TV, and it wouldn't be good for the garden16:51
mungbeanyabbadabbadooo16:52
mungbeanhome tiem16:52
BigRedSGood point16:52
* xnox "I'm friends with the monster that's under my bed" ♬ ♪ ♯ ♩17:08
diddledanI _am_ the monster that's under my bed17:11
diddledan<-- honeymonster17:12
SuperMattI haven't had sugarpuffs in ages17:12
SuperMattare they even still legal?17:12
SuperMattwhat with the amount of sufar17:12
SuperMatt*sugar17:12
Azelphuranyone know how to create an encrypted portable USB install of Ubuntu?17:27
penguin42Azelphur: The tricky bit if doing it to a usb thumb is most of them really suck on writes, but other than that luks encrypt shouldn't be too bad17:28
Azelphuris there a tool for it? or is it a royal PITA17:28
penguin42luks shouldn't be that hard - but is there a tool for doing a non-encrypted thumb?17:29
Azelphurthere is17:29
xnoxAzelphur: take usb-thumb drive, plug it in, open dash type "Disks" select format, choose encrypted, enter password & format, done.17:29
* penguin42 would just format the part as luks and hope for the best17:29
xnoxAzelphur: make sure you click unmount before unplugging.17:30
penguin42xnox: I believe he wants to put the rest of Ubuntu in there as well17:30
xnoxAzelphur: when you plug it back into Ubuntu, a pop-up will appear to unlock it.17:30
Azelphurpenguin42: will that actually remain bootable, though?17:30
xnoxpenguin42: if you want to have encrypted LUKS installation, it's also a single check-box in the installer.17:30
penguin42Azelphur: Normally you run with a /boot that's done normally then a luks'd root17:30
xnoxpenguin42: yes, that's setup automatically by the Ubuntu Desktop installer, if you tick to encrypt your new full disk installation (Erase and Install)17:31
xnox(dual boot not supported, or more complex schemes)17:31
Azelphurxnox: uhh, is this gnome-disk-utility you're talking about?17:32
AzelphurI'm on xubuntu, so I don't have Unity :)17:32
penguin42xnox: Yep done it - the interesting bit is combining it with the thumbdrive setups - which often have the data as a separate part17:32
AzelphurI don't have any options to encrypt in the format menu17:32
penguin42Azelphur: SO you can just do a normal install to the thumb drive and remember to select encrypted drive (not home directory encrypt!) and it should work17:33
xnoxAzelphur: yes, it's "gnome-disks" or some such. Should work on any systems. Install "cryptsetup" package ? it might be optional.17:33
Azelphurxnox: nope, still no format options17:34
Azelphurpenguin42: problem with that is it creates grub for all the hdds in the system17:34
xnoxAzelphur: what release are you on?17:34
penguin42Azelphur: If you do an install you don't need to do this stuff17:34
Azelphurxnox: 13.1017:34
AzelphurI'll have another look at doing a normal install17:36
AzelphurI have two sticks, so one of them has the installer, one is the install medium17:36
penguin42Azelphur: Yeh just do a normal install and tick the full disk encryption17:37
xnoxAzelphur: disks -> click on usb stick -> click on a partition -> SHIFT+CTRL+F (or small cogs drop down below partition)17:37
xnoxType: Encrypted17:37
xnoxor just "+" if it's a new partition.17:38
Azelphurxnox: aha, yes I see that :)17:38
Azelphurxnox: seems like unetbootin won't create in that though, so I'll go back to trying to do a normal install17:40
Azelphurpenguin42: the problem with the installer is that it seems very intent on installing to /dev/sda17:42
Azelphurand I don't particularly wanna wipe my laptop xD17:42
penguin42huh shouldn't - should let you install where you want17:43
Azelphurwell, at partitioning the options I get are "Erase Ubuntu 13.10 and reinstall", Install Xubuntu 13.10 alongside 13.10, or something else17:43
* penguin42 thought it used to let you choose another disk at that point17:45
Azelphurpenguin42: nah, it's asking me for a security key and the next button is "Install now"17:45
AzelphurI'm gonna try this in a virtual machine just to see if install now really means install now :)17:46
Azelphurseems install now doesn't mean install now \o/17:48
AzelphurSome of the partitions you created are too small. Please make the following partitions at least this large: / 2.9GB17:49
Azelphurawwww.17:49
Azelphurguess I'll have to use my 16GB one17:50
penguin42Azelphur: Now the thing is I know there are some USB thumb setups that do it a bit differently; they have a base root partition and then a writeable overlay17:52
Azelphuryea17:52
Azelphurthe main reason I want this is so that I can have something very secure to handle my bitcoins on17:53
Azelphurthe amount I have stored on my everyday desktop is scary.17:53
penguin42Azelphur: Isn't it easier to turn them into cash and put them in a bank?17:55
Azelphurpenguin42: Total times I've been robbed by banks: 417:57
Azelphura handy guide to why I don't put money in banks17:57
penguin42interesting17:58
Azelphuralso the cyprus situation17:58
penguin42the what?17:58
Azelphurwhy anybody trusts banks I have no clue, but none the less, I won't17:58
penguin42Azelphur: I've not had problems with them actually losing money - I mean generally I find them completely incompetent, but not actually lost anything to them17:59
Azelphurpenguin42: yea, I've lost 4 figures17:59
Azelphurat least.17:59
penguin42ouch17:59
Azelphurgot an ombudsman case starting against Santander18:00
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|EOD
Azelphurbut yea.18:00
penguin42ah, Santander18:00
Azelphurpenguin42: but yea, with the combination of extremely low interest payouts, incompetence, maliciousness, and the possibility of seizure ala Cyprus, banks are about the least sane place to have your money atm, imo.18:01
* penguin42 gulps18:02
penguin42Azelphur: OK, buy property then?18:02
AzelphurI wouldn't wanna advise on where you should put your money, as anything I say could well be totally wrong18:02
Azelphurbut at least I can be reasonably sure that storing it in the bank has at best a mediocre interest payout, and at worse, you loosing some/all of it.18:03
penguin42well, in the UK as long as you keep the amount/bank below the cap you're very unlikely to lose18:03
Azelphurpenguin42: you assume government solvency.18:04
Azelphurthat's a bad assumption imo.18:04
AzelphurUSA very nearly defaulted, everybodies credit rating is falling, which means interests on our exponential debt is growing, do the math :)18:05
Azelphurpenguin42: hmm, I got to the "Who are you?" section, filled all the info in and clicked continue, now the installer is just hanging18:07
Azelphur:(18:07
penguin42Azelphur: are you sure it actually crashed or it is just writing to your uber slow usb drive?18:08
Azelphurpenguin42: it's been stuck for about 20 minutes, the OS is still responsive, just the installer isn't doing anything18:09
penguin42Azelphur: Is it writing anything to the USB?18:11
Azelphurhow do I tell?18:11
penguin42iostat ?18:11
Azelphurpenguin42: can't install it because debconf is locked18:13
penguin42Azelphur: vmstat ?18:14
Azelphurhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/6360108/18:14
penguin42Azelphur: try vmstat 1 5    is the bo column always sitting at around a few hundred?18:15
Azelphuryea, bo is pretty much always at 43318:16
Azelphuror 43218:16
penguin42ok, so it's writing all the time and I'm guessing just stuck writing lots of stuff18:16
penguin42Azelphur: I suggest it's telling you to take it easy for a while18:17
Azelphurpenguin42: it's weird because its not even showing the installer progress bar18:18
Azelphurit's just hanging18:18
penguin42Azelphur: I'd give it a while before giving up on it18:19
ali1234why do you even want an encrypted install on usb? it's crazy18:19
ali1234usb is lowwwww18:19
Azelphurali1234: I want some place to store my BTC safely18:19
ali1234encrypted usb isn't the answer18:20
penguin42well, it's USB thumbs are slow18:20
ali1234nah, any USB2 is slow18:21
penguin42well, you can still get 40MB/s on a good day - that's slow but usable as opposed to hopeless18:21
ali1234Azelphur: did you know you can generate btc addresses using openssl... openssl is installed by default on ubuntu18:22
Azelphurali1234: yea thing is I'm making the assumption of malicious software on my desktop18:23
ali1234how will an encrypted volume help?18:23
Azelphurali1234: encrypted USB stick only used for bitcoin18:23
Azelphurboot from USB :)18:24
ali1234yea how will that help18:24
Azelphurali1234: well it'll render any malicious software on my PC moot, since the drives are unmounted?18:24
penguin42Azelphur: A bootable standard Ubuntu live CD and a USB stick with just the crypted bitcoin data on would work18:25
Azelphurpenguin42: yea, I guess I could use the standard wallet encryption in the client, and not secure the OS18:26
Azelphuralthough I'd prefer the drive encrypted, that protects against tampering18:26
ali1234use paper wallets18:26
Azelphurali1234: I can't send from a paper wallet...18:27
* Azelphur sighs18:27
ali1234yes you can18:27
penguin42Azelphur: I mean encrypted USB but with just your bitcoin data, but access it booting off a live-cd18:27
ali1234all you have to do is type in the key18:27
Azelphurpenguin42: I see, same answer though18:27
Azelphurali1234: on my machine, which we are assuming is compromised...18:27
Azelphuris it really that alien to want an encrypted portable install?18:28
penguin42Azelphur: It's protected against tampering still - especially if you use a stamped live-cd18:28
ali1234well don't get it compromised then. easy18:28
Azelphur-.-18:28
AzelphurI just want to create an encrypted portable install, not have the Spanish inquisition ;)18:29
Azelphurpenguin42: I'm seeing lots of stack traces in dmesg, I guess this install is failing18:31
penguin42Azelphur: Depends on the stack trace - are they just task not responding after 120 seconds?18:31
Azelphurpenguin42: spot on, that's the one :)18:31
ali1234buy an old netbook off ebay18:31
ali1234enrypt the internal drive18:31
penguin42Azelphur: Yeh that's SLOW things are going SLOW18:32
Azelphurali1234: that's actually a good idea, one of the things I was worried about with a stick is that they aren't very robust, and are easier to loose.18:32
penguin42Azelphur: When you say portable - what do you want to boot it on?18:32
Azelphurpenguin42: just the one laptop :)18:32
penguin42ok18:32
czajkowskipopey: do you have chrome or chromium installed?18:52
popeyyes18:53
davmor2popey: you fell into that trap, now czajkowski will ask you to try something :D19:08
czajkowskipopey: davmor2 just curious I've chromium installed but trying to install chrome as I need to test an app19:11
czajkowskibut it refuses to install it does download but then nothing really moves on the install bar19:12
czajkowskiI download it from the google site/chrome19:12
davmor2czajkowski: did you get the right version?19:12
davmor2czajkowski: did it install and it just not show up on the launcher bar, ie is it in the dash?19:13
davmor2czajkowski: what happens if you do sudo dpkg -i chrome.deb or whatever it is called19:13
czajkowskigoogle-chrome-stable_current_amd64.deb19:15
czajkowskigot it off their own site which was the confusing thing19:15
davmor2czajkowski: and it is on a 64bit machine right?19:15
czajkowskiyup19:15
davmor2and have you open dash and seen if it is installed?19:16
czajkowskiit's downloaded19:16
czajkowskibut doesnt seem to want to install19:16
davmor2czajkowski: right so do sudo dpkg -i google-chrome-stable_current_amd64.deb and see why19:17
AzelphurI have a feeling Ubuntu generally doesn't like installing to a USB stick.19:36
popeyi have installed to usb before19:36
AzelphurI gave up on my laptop after an hour, tried doing it in a virtual machine with USB passthrough, this time I made it further through the install, but it looks like its stuck again19:36
Azelphuryea, I've done it before too19:36
SuperMattit is a travesty how poorly modern operating systems handle blu ray19:39
davmor2Azelphur: what are you using to copy it to usb?19:40
Azelphurthe ubuntu installer19:40
davmor2Azelphur: hum that works fine for me19:41
Azelphurbizarre :(19:41
davmor2Azelphur: what speed is the drive, usb1 tends to fail 2 is alright never tried 319:41
Azelphurusb 2 I believe, a 16GB sandisk cruzer19:42
davmor2Azelphur: I'd try formatting the drive and reinstalling it, personally.19:43
Azelphurdavmor2: did that19:43
SuperMattman, it shouldn't be that the only way I can watch a BD is to plug in my ps319:45
davmor2SuperMatt: I can tell you how but I'm not going to muhahaha19:46
penguin42Azelphur: Oh, a sandisk - oh, I've heard people are having very poor write bandwidths on modern sandisk thumbdrives19:47
Azelphuroh :(19:47
penguin42Azelphur: You could install to a virtual disk and then dd the raw disk out to the USB stick?19:48
penguin42but yeh installs onto USB are a pain19:48
Azelphuryea could do19:48
AzelphurI've actually had the install bar go all the way to the end, and then go around again. xD19:48
SuperMattdavmor2: does it involve libaacs.so.0 and KEYDB.conf?19:48
Azelphurbut it seems to be progressing again now after being frozen for ~15 minutes19:48
davmor2SuperMatt: no just build makemkv  and preview make that full screen in 60 days install the newer version :)19:49
SuperMattriiight19:50
SuperMattI'll just go with my ps3 method19:50
davmor2SuperMatt: that's the easy way19:50
SuperMattyup19:51
SuperMattI like easy19:51
davmor2SuperMatt: I was kinda expecting Fluendo to make a Bluray player as the have legit keys for their dvd player so why not add blue ray but I don't think they are going to :(19:53
SuperMattI just think it's a bit criminal that I have the disk, I have the reader, but I have to pay a third party to actually be able to decode the stuff19:54
diddledanI think rather than fluendo not making it the case is more like the aacs people won't license the code to fluendo19:54
Azelphurpenguin42: do you have any recommendations for a more modern high speed drive?19:55
davmor2diddledan: why their dvd player is proprietary not free, and is one of the only legit players for dvd for linux so they could do the same with bluray I would imagine19:56
diddledanlinux scares the media companies, though19:56
diddledanthey're afraid of reverse engineering on linux more than they are on windows or stbs19:56
diddledanSTBs**19:57
diddledan(that's just anecdotal, I have no evidence to back up the claim :-p)19:57
popeyAzelphur: you're doing this via a VM?19:58
davmor2diddledan: Fluendo technically isn't Linux they are just a Media Company that mostly create gstreamer stuff.19:58
Azelphurpopey: yea19:58
davmor2Azelphur: oh that could be why.    Why would you do that on a vm when you can just use the iso19:58
diddledanwhat I really hate about bluray is that you can pay to get discs blocked from your player - when you buy a new disc it can install a blacklist onto your player that blocks previously bought discs. so you're paying for the privilege of them removing your viewing rights that you paid for19:59
Azelphurdavmor2: because I'd get dodgy grub entries to drives that don't exist19:59
Azelphurplus a vm should be no slower, I'm just usb passthroughing19:59
penguin42Azelphur: No sorry20:00
davmor2Azelphur: yeah only it depends how good the passthrough is it might be fine for data20:00
GentileBenhttp://toys.usvsth3m.com/richard-dawkins-honey-defender/20:06
shaunoas silly as the whole thing sounds, I felt the same way when they took my cheese off me.  have you ever tried to argue with the govt over whether cheese is a liquid or not?20:11
penguin42shauno: It didn't have a wick coming out of it did it?20:13
penguin42shauno: I thought cheese was primarily about milk export, and I'd kind of assumed honey was the same20:23
diddledanhurray - just finished whittling down 30ish bug and other issues down to just 320:28
diddledannot ubuntu-related but still, share my joy20:28
MartijnVdS\o/20:28
penguin42am I the only one who really really dislikes 'unsigned' as a type as opposed to 'unsigned int' ?20:28
diddledanI think that's enough work for today20:29
MartijnVdSpenguin42: it's not as expressive20:29
diddledanit's an unsigned bit, obviously20:29
diddledanbecause we all know bits can be signed20:30
mgdm'unsigned char' used to make me go o_O20:30
MartijnVdSsigned char is worse20:30
diddledanlol20:30
mgdmnow I just think "lol, C" and get on with life20:30
mgdmMartijnVdS: well, yes, it was the implication that char was signed by default20:30
MartijnVdSmgdm: that's not defined, I think, in older versions of C (maybe even today)20:30
Azelphurcan you not dual boot and encrypt one of the partitions?20:46
penguin42does someone have access to a non-linux posix system where they can do a   man select  ?21:02
mgdmpenguin42: OSX do?21:02
penguin42yes21:02
mgdmsure21:02
penguin42mgdm: I'd like to know the signedness of the 1st parameter21:03
mgdmint select(int nfds, fd_set *restrict readfds, fd_set *restrict writefds, fd_set *restrict errorfds, struct timeval *restrict timeout);21:03
penguin42ok, thanks21:03
* penguin42 wonders wth it's an int rather than an unsigned int - I don't get why a negative number would make any sense21:04
mgdmthere's a few cases where I wonder that too :)21:04
AzelphurI like how the encryption on Ubuntu doesn't give me a prompt or anything on my laptop21:55
AzelphurIt's super secret, "Wait for the screen to go black...enter the password and press enter"21:55
mgdmheh21:56
penguin42Azelphur: That's a bug - if you kill plymouth is does, and I have seen it work on 12.04 - but not everyone does21:57
Azelphurhehe21:57
=== schwuk is now known as schwuk_away
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away

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